New 2019 BMW 1-Series Hatch: What It Will Look Like And Everything Else We Know
(https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/2019-BMW-1-Series-Hatch-Carscoops-Copyright-768x492.jpg)
If you're a BMW purist, you may want to stop reading here. Why, you ask? Because in a radical departure, your favorite Bavarian hatch is losing its key point of difference – that being its rear-wheel-drive layout. Ach nein!
However is it really all doom and front-wheel-drive gloom for BMW's next-generation A-Class fighter? To find out more, let's illustratively explore further:
The Ultimate Driving Platform?
The current F20/F21 1 Series is an absolute hoot to drive on a twisty backroad. It's fast, tail-happy and communicative. Unfortunately, the downside to this is cramped back seat accommodation, due to its rear-wheel-drive layout.
To get around this packaging stalemate (and let's face it, to spread costs for its FWD-based platform), BMW has switched to front-wheel-drive. But will it handle as good as its predecessor? Many skeptics have cast doubt, yet BMW is giving its best shot by using the automaker's latest FAAR platform.
Mind you, this won't be the first FWD 1-Series, as this distinction goes to the 1-Series sedan based on the current UKL platform and made in and for China.
By heading down this road, it'll enable the 5-door-only 1 Series to be lighter, roomier, agiler and have the ability to support electric powertrains. Plus, don't forget that it will offer all-wheel drive on higher-powered models.
Power To The Front And All Fours
There will be an array of 1.5-liter three and 2.0-liter four-cylinder, turbocharged diesel and gasoline engines spearheading the range, with power being sent to the front wheels via a 6-speed manual (availability depending on the model) and 8-speed automatic transmissions. There will be at least two hybrid models, one mild and one plug-in hybrid with a driving range in excess of 50km or 30 miles.
Yes, We'll Get An M Performance Model
As with the rear-wheel-drive layout, the current six-cylinder models will also face the axe. Fortunately for performance enthusiasts, the six will be replaced with an evolved turbocharged 2.0-litre gasoline unit, pumping out over 300hp through an xDrive AWD system. This range-topper is likely to be called either the M130i or M140i xDrive by M Performance and will face off against Audi S3 and VW Golf R.
(https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/BMW-1series-08-768x487.jpg)
Sharper, Precision Styling
Sadly, the 2019 1 Series loses the long hood, short overhang proportions of the outgoing car, yet now features sharper and more precise sheetmetal surfacing.The Hofmeister kink moves away from the gentle, sweeping arch of the current car into an edgier, abstract adaptation.
BMW's signature twin-kidney grille also departs from the norm with a design that's angular, wide and aggressive. Arguably, you could almost label the overall new design as more of a tarmac-orientated X2 – but without the SUV-like cladding.
Possibly Five-Door Only
BMW may follow the latest market trend that sees automakers ditching three-door hatchback models altogether over low demand and offer the 1-Series hatchback exclusively as a five-door model. Evidently, this move would help the Bavarian brand reduce production and development costs.
What About The Interior?
While we know that the platform switch will result in improved space inside, especially for rear passengers, we don't have anything yet on the interior design. However, given BMW's tendency to a) employ, if not identical, very similar cabins across same-sized models regardless of body style and b) take an extremely cautious and evolutionary approach to interior designs, we wouldn't be surprised if the 1-Series cabin ends up looking a lot like that of the X2.
(https://www.carscoops.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/04/BMW-1series-11-768x487.jpg)
Premium Hatch Alternatives
Mercedes-Benz may have beaten BMW to the punch in revealing their latest A-Class, however, the latter suffers from the same sausage, different length approach to design which could very well give BMW the upper hand.
Other rivals include Audi's soon to be replaced A3, Volkswagen Golf, Infiniti Q30, Alfa Romeo's aging Giulietta and Volvo's new V40.
Expect the all-new 1 Series to debut either towards the end of the year or in the first quarter of 2019, possibly at the Geneva Motor Show, with an M performance model to follow within the next 6-12 months.
So, are you disappointed that the new 1 Series has gone front-drive, or doesn't it matter? Share your views on that and our spy shot-based illustration below.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2018/04/new-2019-bmw-1-series-hatch-will-look-like-everything-else-know/
Why get this over a GTI or Megane....
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 01, 2018, 06:14:23 PM
Why get this over a GTI or Megane....
Maybe it will drive better?
They have to take this route because the 1er was always shining in terms of driving dynamics but not in terms of overall practicality against its FWD rivals.
On the German 1er Forum that I sometimes frequent some guys are pissed at this, but many just accept the move to FWD as a means of boosting practicality. Goes to show that not all 1er buyers are real driving enthusiasts. And maybe this means one day I'll find a note on my windshield from someone who wants to pay good money for mine because he needs a drift car... :lol:
I don't understand why BMW has to play in this market in the first place. Low margin, lowish volume (for the segment), not really good for what little credibility the brand has left. And that goes for Mercedes with the A class too. Audi is different as it started out basically like VW's Acura.... but this... IDK.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
I don't understand why BMW has to play in this market in the first place. Low margin, lowish volume (for the segment), not really good for what little credibility the brand has left. And that goes for Mercedes with the A class too. Audi is different as it started out basically like VW's Acura.... but this... IDK.
It's simple. BMW is a business - they want to make a profit. Customers keep them afloat, not enthusiasts. The majority of 1er buyers are not enthusiasts. Remember that survey which showed that 80% of E87 1er buyers thought their car was FWD? That says it all.
For certain markets these smaller premium cars make sense. I just don't know why Mercedes wants to sell the new A-Class (and the sedan version) in North America. The A-Class sedan is basically a CLA...
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
I don't understand why BMW has to play in this market in the first place. Low margin, lowish volume (for the segment), not really good for what little credibility the brand has left. And that goes for Mercedes with the A class too. Audi is different as it started out basically like VW's Acura.... but this... IDK.
Because it's still a huge market outside the US, where fuel is expensive and urban areas are more congested, yet people still want some luxury and high quality.
Wimmer, it actually seems like this new 1er might be a good car for you. IIRC you have complained about the lack of space in you current one. And you don't care about RWD dynamics, am I right?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 02, 2018, 09:51:05 AM
Wimmer, it actually seems like this new 1er might be a good car for you. IIRC you have complained about the lack of space in you current one. And you don't care about RWD dynamics, am I right?
I only complained about the lack of space in the rear when I had passengers in the back - which was extremely rare. These days if someone is riding with me it'll be in the front passenger seat. And if I have to drive two people around the second passenger can still somewhat comfortably sit behind the front passenger.
In terms of cargo space the E87 1er is actually surprisingly spacious and practical for my needs. I find the E87 to be roomier than the F20/F21 current 1er.
(https://i.wheelsage.org/pictures/b/bmw/120i_5-door/bmw_120i_5-door_2.jpeg)
The majority of the people didn't know the old one was RWD, but I'd wager a large number of the buyers bought the old 1er because of the way it feels driving... which is because of RWD.
Common buyers being unaware of mechanical terms needs to be separated from what they are feeling.
Quote from: r0tor on April 02, 2018, 10:07:00 AM
The majority of the people didn't know the old one was RWD, but I'd wager a large number of the buyers bought the old 1er because of the way it feels driving... which is because of RWD.
Common buyers being unaware of mechanical terms needs to be separated from what they are feeling.
I've come to appreciate the RWD layout of my 1er - it's truly fun and makes driving the car a pleasure combined with the sharp steering response and standard sporty suspension feel.
However, what I really like about the car (and why I am holding on to it) is the PERFECT LAYOUT and ERGONOMICS of the interior. Everything is where it should be and naturally intuitive. Anyone can get into this car and immediately feel at home - literally. The naturally aspirated engine also plays a role.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSMHf5RbzRo
Quote from: r0tor on April 02, 2018, 10:07:00 AM
The majority of the people didn't know the old one was RWD, but I'd wager a large number of the buyers bought the old 1er because of the way it feels driving... which is because of RWD.
Common buyers being unaware of mechanical terms needs to be separated from what they are feeling.
Yea, the double kidney grill and roundel on the hood had nothing to do with it :wtf:
It's simply perceived quality. I think a $20,000 Hyundai Elantra GT is at least 90% as good as this $30,000 Bimmer, but there's value in that roundel and double kidney grille. It's why Nike and Converse can sell $200 sneakers, when Walmart sells similar shoes made from the same materials for $29.97.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2018, 07:24:34 AM
I don't understand why BMW has to play in this market in the first place. Low margin, lowish volume (for the segment), not really good for what little credibility the brand has left. And that goes for Mercedes with the A class too. Audi is different as it started out basically like VW's Acura.... but this... IDK.
The A class and 1-series are NOT low margin. They likely cost about the same to develop as the Megane and Co, but they have the typical BMW/MB A-la-carte options.
Also, the BMW New Class, 2002, and E21 were on the same plane as Audi, so I don't understand these "BMW was always premium" alternative facts.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 02, 2018, 10:28:34 AM
Yea, the double kidney grill and roundel on the hood had nothing to do with it :wtf:
We got the 1-series here last generation, and aside from the I6 engines BMW put in for our market, the 1 series is still a markedly different (and nicer) car than a comparable Astra or Civic.
Quote from: r0tor on April 02, 2018, 10:07:00 AM
The majority of the people didn't know the old one was RWD, but I'd wager a large number of the buyers bought the old 1er because of the way it feels driving... which is because of RWD.
Common buyers being unaware of mechanical terms needs to be separated from what they are feeling.
When I worked at the BMW dealer, I remember this lady traded in her E46 for an F10 535xi because she wanted AWD and "didn't like how insecure Front-wheel-drive feels in winter" in her old E46.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 02, 2018, 12:22:59 PM
When I worked at the BMW dealer, I remember this lady traded in her E46 for an F10 535xi because she wanted AWD and "didn't like how insecure Front-wheel-drive feels in winter" in her old E46.
Wrong diagnosis - right solution. So good for her.
In my experience these smaller cars from premium brands also have some intangible features which other brands don't provide.
For example, the 2007 BMW 118i that I drive does actually feel quite solid. The doors close with a nice metallic clack and when you drive the car (or ride in it) you feel at ease because the car feels solid - whether its in the city or at high speed on the Autobahn. It feels well-planted, safe, solid and like a brick.
Contrast that to the 2015ish Toyota Auris Hatchback that a friend of mine drives and in which I have ridden in. Essentially it's in the same class as the 1-Series, so the cars could be compared. The Auris is no doubt a good car, but to me it felt built to a price. The doors felt light and almost flimsy and don't shut with a reassuring thud. The suspension felt nervous, especially on the Autobahn. The car didn't feel solid, or at least as solid as my 2007 BMW 1er.
Maybe I am biased, but I recently rode in three newish Toyota Prius Taxis (injured my ankle, couldn't walk for two weeks, needed to ride in taxis to get around town with my crutches) and again - they felt built to a price. Great and fascinating cars, but they lacked that solidity feel of the BMW 1-Series.
I also got that feeling in the 2017 Volkswagen Golf Wagon I checked out a few weeks ago. Great car, but it does not feel as solid as my BMW 1-Series, though in this case I only got to experience it in the showroom, not on the road. But I am a firm believer in these intangible features which some brands build into their cars, and hence for me the higher asking prices are justified. Emotions and how the car makes you feel play an important role here.
"Premium brand" compacts are also pretty dumb in a lot of ways. :lol: A friend of mine almost had a panic attack when we rented a CLA250 a couple weeks ago because he felt so claustrophobic.
Quote from: 93JC on April 02, 2018, 06:21:09 PM
"Premium brand" compacts are also pretty dumb in a lot of ways. :lol: A friend of mine almost had a panic attack when we rented a CLA250 a couple weeks ago because he felt so claustrophobic.
I don't think or understand why that had anything to do with the car being "premium".
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 02, 2018, 06:53:18 PM
I don't think or understand why that had anything to do with the car being "premium".
For real. They don't get much more premium, or claustrophobic, than this...
(https://bilder.bild.de/fotos-skaliert/gewinnspiel-bugatti-chiron-2017-200363675-51493704/2,w=993,q=high,c=0.bild.jpg)
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 02, 2018, 06:53:18 PM
I don't think or understand why that had anything to do with the car being "premium".
It embodies the ethos of a "premium" brand perfectly: it screams "I don't NEED this car, I WANT this car." Only a "premium" brand would, or could, eschew practicality in its entirety. Take for example...
Quote from: Rockraven on April 02, 2018, 07:39:30 PM
For real. They don't get much more premium, or claustrophobic, than this...
<Bugatti Chiron>
A Bugatti Chiron. The Bugatti can get away with being impractical because it is a 'hypercar', one of the fastest cars on the planet, built in a limited run of 500, has a 16-cylinder quad-turbo engine, etc., and the thing costs about $3,000,000. A handful of people on the planet will ever own one. It doesn't matter that it guzzles gas and barely has room in it for the trophy wife's $xx,xxx purse or whatever, because it's a playtoy for people have more money than God to show off in. They're advertising to the jealous neighbours: "Look, I can afford to spend $3,000,000 on a super-expensive and exclusive playtoy."
Something like a 5-series BMW or whatever is obviously not on the same plane, but a lot of the same ideas follow. It ostensibly has a 'nicer' interior, a 'nicer' ride, 'better' performance than a plebeian Camry or Accord, which justifies why people spend $70,000 on one when a $35,000 car could have done 90% of the job. People pay that 50% premium for the extra 10% precisely because they can and they want everyone else to know it. They're buying a badge. They're advertising to the jealous neighbours: "Look, I can afford to spend $70,000 on a car. Look at how much money I can spend for that extra 10% worth of 'performance'/'luxury'."
The market the Mercedes-Benz CLA—and this new 1-series—plays in is a market in which people DO care about practicality, gas mileage, repair costs, and all those other boring things that only mere plebes care about, because they're charging plebe prices. That wouldn't be a problem for these cars if not for the fact
they don't really do anything else better than their competition does. They make the kinds of compromises that their bigger more expensive brethren make, but they can't and don't back it up with something else. You're paying a premium for the badge, but no one is jealous of "Look, I can afford to spend $38,000 on a car." A $38,000 car from plebeian brands like Honda, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, etc. can do
everything better. It's "fake rich".
Yeah, whatever. A significant number of buyers of these cars usually have a higher end product from the same marque, like an X5.
Quote from: 93JC on April 02, 2018, 09:31:52 PM
It embodies the ethos of a "premium" brand perfectly: it screams "I don't NEED this car, I WANT this car." Only a "premium" brand would, or could, eschew practicality in its entirety. Take for example...
A Bugatti Chiron. The Bugatti can get away with being impractical because it is a 'hypercar', one of the fastest cars on the planet, built in a limited run of 500, has a 16-cylinder quad-turbo engine, etc., and the thing costs about $3,000,000. A handful of people on the planet will ever own one. It doesn't matter that it guzzles gas and barely has room in it for the trophy wife's $xx,xxx purse or whatever, because it's a playtoy for people have more money than God to show off in. They're advertising to the jealous neighbours: "Look, I can afford to spend $3,000,000 on a super-expensive and exclusive playtoy."
Something like a 5-series BMW or whatever is obviously not on the same plane, but a lot of the same ideas follow. It ostensibly has a 'nicer' interior, a 'nicer' ride, 'better' performance than a plebeian Camry or Accord, which justifies why people spend $70,000 on one when a $35,000 car could have done 90% of the job. People pay that 50% premium for the extra 10% precisely because they can and they want everyone else to know it. They're buying a badge. They're advertising to the jealous neighbours: "Look, I can afford to spend $70,000 on a car. Look at how much money I can spend for that extra 10% worth of 'performance'/'luxury'."
The market the Mercedes-Benz CLA—and this new 1-series—plays in is a market in which people DO care about practicality, gas mileage, repair costs, and all those other boring things that only mere plebes care about, because they're charging plebe prices. That wouldn't be a problem for these cars if not for the fact they don't really do anything else better than their competition does. They make the kinds of compromises that their bigger more expensive brethren make, but they can't and don't back it up with something else. You're paying a premium for the badge, but no one is jealous of "Look, I can afford to spend $38,000 on a car." A $38,000 car from plebeian brands like Honda, Toyota, Chevy, Ford, etc. can do everything better. It's "fake rich".
The luxury logic you describe applies in exactly the same way to this smaller car category. Same diminishing returns at a high cost.
This smaller Audi/Mercs/Bimmers have some small advantages over mainstremers like nicer interiors for example and in a few cases more refined engines as well as the "intangibles" Wimmer mentioned above.
As always, not worth it from a Carspinian "left brain" perspective but then again, what luxury is?
You described the logic very well but missed in thinking that it doesn't apply to this category of car.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 02, 2018, 11:00:15 PM
This smaller Audi/Mercs/Bimmers have some small advantages over mainstremers like nicer interiors for example and in a few cases more refined engines as well as the "intangibles" Wimmer mentioned above.
Except they don't. They really don't.
QuoteYou described the logic very well but missed in thinking that it doesn't apply to this category of car.
It does apply, it just doesn't bear out in reality precisely because the cars are 'okay' at best.
Quote from: 93JC on April 02, 2018, 06:21:09 PM
"Premium brand" compacts are also pretty dumb in a lot of ways. :lol: A friend of mine almost had a panic attack when we rented a CLA250 a couple weeks ago because he felt so claustrophobic.
Ironically the A-Class on which the CLA is based is slightly roomier inside. :lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 02, 2018, 11:00:15 PM
The luxury logic you describe applies in exactly the same way to this smaller car category. Same diminishing returns at a high cost.
This smaller Audi/Mercs/Bimmers have some small advantages over mainstremers like nicer interiors for example and in a few cases more refined engines as well as the "intangibles" Wimmer mentioned above.
As always, not worth it from a Carspinian "left brain" perspective but then again, what luxury is?
You described the logic very well but missed in thinking that it doesn't apply to this category of car.
I haven't ridden in a CLA/GLA but from what I hear they are missing all those intangibles and advantages. Maybe the Bimmer is better. It's definitely doable- the Golf, Mazda3 and to a degree even the Focus are all a good bit more upscale than something like my ghastly Sentra rental. But a luxury marque making an economy car doesn't guarantee that it will be nice. I have not read or heard one good review of the CLA.
The current 1er has a pretty undebatable difference at least. It's RWD. This next one nobody knows.
The small Audis certainly have much nicer interiors than mainstream hatches. MINIs which also play in this category have looks, nice interiors and fun handling. These cars all sell for a reason and it's not "people being stupid".
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 03, 2018, 05:35:48 AM
I haven't ridden in a CLA/GLA but from what I hear they are missing all those intangibles and advantages. Maybe the Bimmer is better. It's definitely doable- the Golf, Mazda3 and to a degree even the Focus are all a good bit more upscale than something like my ghastly Sentra rental. But a luxury marque making an economy car doesn't guarantee that it will be nice. I have not read or heard one good review of the CLA.
There have been good reviews of the CLA. It's not my favorite Benz but I think they look pretty nice with an AMG body kit. I just don't like sitting in them because of those massive sight-robbing A-pillars, which is also the case on the A-Class and GLA and aside from the front, the rear space is pretty much off-limits to adults. Get an A-Class Hatch - more room in the back. Hell, between an A-Class, CLA and a GLA you're better off with a B-Class; more space inside and none of these fat sight-robbing A-pillars.
I think the biggest problem of the CLA is that most people criticizing it don't understand it. It's not a Mercedes along the lines of a C-Class and the models above it. It's an A-Class sedan, a "budget Benz" in that regard aimed at a generally younger target market that want something edgy and stylish and premium. In that sense the CLA delivers. And the '45 AMG model is supposedly pretty fun. It sells on other merits.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on April 03, 2018, 07:56:41 AM
I think the biggest problem of the CLA is that most people criticizing it don't understand it. It's not a Mercedes along the lines of a C-Class and the models above it. It's an A-Class sedan, a "budget Benz" in that regard aimed at a generally younger target market that want something edgy and stylish and premium. In that sense the CLA delivers.
No, it doesn't. There's nothing 'premium' about it!
Quote from: cawimmer430 on April 03, 2018, 07:56:41 AM
There have been good reviews of the CLA. It's not my favorite Benz but I think they look pretty nice with an AMG body kit. I just don't like sitting in them because of those massive sight-robbing A-pillars, which is also the case on the A-Class and GLA and aside from the front, the rear space is pretty much off-limits to adults. Get an A-Class Hatch - more room in the back. Hell, between an A-Class, CLA and a GLA you're better off with a B-Class; more space inside and none of these fat sight-robbing A-pillars.
I think the biggest problem of the CLA is that most people criticizing it don't understand it. It's not a Mercedes along the lines of a C-Class and the models above it. It's an A-Class sedan, a "budget Benz" in that regard aimed at a generally younger target market that want something edgy and stylish and premium. In that sense the CLA delivers. And the '45 AMG model is supposedly pretty fun. It sells on other merits.
Edgy and stylish, I guess. That's up to the individual. Premium, very debatable. Seating position, interior design, material quality... better than something like a Sentra, but premium?
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 03, 2018, 06:44:03 AM
The current 1er has a pretty undebatable difference at least. It's RWD. This next one nobody knows.
The small Audis certainly have much nicer interiors than mainstream hatches. MINIs which also play in this category have looks, nice interiors and fun handling. These cars all sell for a reason and it's not "people being stupid".
A3 interior is on the same level as top end Golfs & 3s. Actually design wise they don't look much better than the latest high spec Elantra either. Not sure where you got that stupid people buy these cars but you can read things however you want.
Quote from: 93JC on April 03, 2018, 09:13:47 AM
No, it doesn't. There's nothing 'premium' about it!
Agreed, and the obvious cheapness totally poisons the brand cachet. The "Ooo, you got a Benz" reaction turns into "You got the cheapest Benz they sell, you fucking poseur".
RR Evoques are in the same boat.
I haven't driven a CLA/GLA, but I kind of want to just so that I can understand why the cars are so universally panned by everyone.
Quote from: Xer0 on April 03, 2018, 12:42:07 PM
I haven't driven a CLA/GLA, but I kind of want to just so that I can understand why the cars are so universally panned by everyone.
They're not 'bad'
per se. The CLA is stupid because of the cramped interior. The GLA is a little more spacious, but neither is particularly 'luxurious' or 'premium' otherwise. They're just 'meh', especially for ~$40,000. The problem with them, as I explained above, is that a $40,000 car from a 'mainstream' brand is objectively better at pretty much everything, so you're not paying a premium for the CLA/GLA because the car feels 'premium', you're paying a premium for a badge that the car can't back up.
The CLA's differentiation is the way it looks.
Quote from: 93JC on April 03, 2018, 01:56:07 PM
They're not 'bad' per se. The CLA is stupid because of the cramped interior. The GLA is a little more spacious, but neither is particularly 'luxurious' or 'premium' otherwise. They're just 'meh', especially for ~$40,000. The problem with them, as I explained above, is that a $40,000 car from a 'mainstream' brand is objectively better at pretty much everything, so you're not paying a premium for the CLA/GLA because the car feels 'premium', you're paying a premium for a badge that the car can't back up.
This.
I liked the CLA. Kevin and I fooled around in one in seattle.
But the one I drove was 35k USD.
I had a GLA rental for a full day. It was the same as the CLA but with a worse ride and higher price tag.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 03, 2018, 02:10:07 PM
The CLA's differentiation is the way it looks.
It looks like a CLS that
*juuuuuuuust* escaped the crusher. Or was dried on high heat when the instructions *CLEARLY* said "AIR DRY ONLY". Or like a Chinese CLS built around the bones of a Chevy Cruze. Sometimes differentiation isn't a good thing.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 03, 2018, 03:48:33 PM
It looks like a CLS that *juuuuuuuust* escaped the crusher. Or was dried on high heat when the instructions *CLEARLY* said "AIR DRY ONLY". Or like a Chinese CLS built around the bones of a Chevy Cruze. Sometimes differentiation isn't a good thing.
So you don´t like it. That´s ok.
Rented a GLA on my way home tonight: bounced so hard on a dip in the asphalt I hit my head on the damned sunroof. Fuck those cars, seriously, fuck 'em. :rage:
Quote from: 2o6 on April 03, 2018, 03:28:41 PM
Kevin and I fooled around in one in seattle.
:nono:
I think CLAs look good. :huh:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 04, 2018, 11:04:00 AM
I think CLAs look good. :huh:
It's got a couple cosmetic quirks but I'd agree that overall it looks good.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 03, 2018, 11:06:43 AM
Edgy and stylish, I guess. That's up to the individual. Premium, very debatable. Seating position, interior design, material quality... better than something like a Sentra, but premium?
Design is subjective. With the AMG package the CLA looks quite edgy, IMO.
What constitutes
premium can also be subjective. I personally differentiate somewhat between premium and luxury. To me premium is above mainstream but below luxury, generally speaking.
Regarding the interior, the the interior of my dad's '89 500SL for example comes across as "poorly built" and "cheap" when compared to the CLA cockpit. The plastics in the 500SL feel and look cheap and so does the wood. The panel gaps are pretty big - and yet at the time it was considered state-of-the-art and a high-quality car; which it is. But it's also a car that was developed in the 1970s through the 1980s. Compare the cockpits side by side and honestly the CLA cabin makes a better impression.
Modern interiors are pretty good, on pretty much all cars. Some are better than others, bit arguing about trivial things seems like a waste of time. The cockpit in my 2007 BMW looks pretty cheap - but it's still well-made and the overall solid feel of the car makes me feel as if I am driving something premium and well-engineered.
For what it is I feel the CLA can be considered a premium car. And in the end all that matters is that the buyers/owners are happy with their purchase - right? Don't like the CLA, don't buy one. ;)
Yeahhh...just about any new car is gonna feel premium compared to a car from 30 years ago...doesn't make it premium. :nutty:
"Subjectively I feel the CLA is a premium car," said the Mercedes-Benz fanboy.
To many people, buying a car that's engineered by MB, built by MB, with a MB engine, MB technology, an MB interior, and purchased and serviced at an MB dealership, all adds up to a premium product, no matter if it's their lowest cost model.
Quote from: 93JC on April 05, 2018, 09:53:40 AM
"Subjectively I feel the CLA is a premium car," said the Mercedes-Benz fanboy.
Said the MB hating Char wannabe. :devil:
I'm not blindly hating anything and everything Mercedes-Benz, I'm just telling y'all why a $38,000 Mercedes-Benz compact is stupid. I'm not arguing the following isn't true:
Quote from: Rockraven on April 05, 2018, 01:27:15 PM
To many people, buying a car that's engineered by MB, built by MB, with a MB engine, MB technology, an MB interior, and purchased and serviced at an MB dealership, all adds up to a premium product, no matter if it's their lowest cost model.
There are people that believe this. The point I've been reiterating over and over and over and over again is that that thinking is asinine! If you slapped a Hyundai emblem on a CLA or GLA people would say "This car fucking suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks it's so overpriced!" The same fucking car!
I was very underwhelmed by the CLA. It's a pretty car but that plasticky-feeling interior and lurching tranny felt decidedly unMB-like to me.
Whatever spinian opinion about the CLA it has been a great success for Merc so lots of people have been willing to pay the premium it costs.
Quote from: 93JC on April 05, 2018, 04:39:13 PM
I'm not blindly hating anything and everything Mercedes-Benz, I'm just telling y'all why a $38,000 Mercedes-Benz compact is stupid. I'm not arguing the following isn't true:
There are people that believe this. The point I've been reiterating over and over and over and over again is that that thinking is asinine! If you slapped a Hyundai emblem on a CLA or GLA people would say "This car fucking suuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks it's so overpriced!" The same fucking car!
It's not asinine. Those are all tangible benefits of owning a Mercedes, even the cheapest one. I'll also add resale value, because a 5 yr old MB CLA will hold it's value far better than a similarly priced Buick Regal. If you slapped a Hyundai badge on a CLA, you'd have a well engineered yet pricey sedan, bought and serviced at a Hyundai dealer.
NO THEY ARE NOT 'TANGIBLE'. Is this one big elaborate April Fools joke? Are we all living in la-la land now? Did IQs suddenly drop around here? "Engineered by MB, built by MB, with a MB engine, MB technology, an MB interior" are all completely and utterly subjective and intangible. Those attributes only have the worth that someone subjectively ascribes to them; it is entirely founded on perception. Entirely.
The only thing you could maybe, possibly argue is "purchased and serviced at a MB dealership". I'll admit they're more likely to give you a loaner (although maybe not to plebes buying CLAs and GLAs), have a cappuccino machine in the lobby and shit like that. Again, this really only has whatever value one subjectively ascribes to it. One could also argue it's more likely a Hyundai won't NEED to go back to the dealership as often (one of the CLAs I rented had substantial electrical gremlins, the likes I had never experienced before), and there's a lot of value in not having the hassle of an unreliable car.
With respect to resale value you are absolutely 100% wrong. Entry-level 'luxury' cars have some of the WORST depreciation in the industry. From a quick google search: "These 11 Cars Embarrassingly Lose Half Their Value in Three Years" (https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/14247792/1/these-cars-lose-half-their-value-in-three-years.html). I'll save you a click, here's the list:
11. Ford Focus
10. Ford Fusion
9. Volkswagen Jetta
8. Infiniti Q50
7. BMW 3-series
6. Nissan Maxima
5. BMW 5-series
4. Mercedes-Benz C-class
3. Mercedes-Benz E-class
2. Cadillac ATS
1. Cadillac CTS
Resale value of a CLA/GLA will likely be dogshit.
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on April 05, 2018, 06:39:52 PM
Whatever spinian opinion about the CLA it has been a great success for Merc so lots of people have been willing to pay the premium it costs.
Something being popular doesn't make it good. Would you accept the argument that a Lexus ES is better than a 5 series? More Americans buy them.
Quote from: 93JC on April 05, 2018, 08:34:44 PM
NO THEY ARE NOT 'TANGIBLE'. Is this one big elaborate April Fools joke? Are we all living in la-la land now? Did IQs suddenly drop around here? "Engineered by MB, built by MB, with a MB engine, MB technology, an MB interior" are all completely and utterly subjective and intangible. Those attributes only have the worth that someone subjectively ascribes to them; it is entirely founded on perception. Entirely.
The only thing you could maybe, possibly argue is "purchased and serviced at a MB dealership". I'll admit they're more likely to give you a loaner (although maybe not to plebes buying CLAs and GLAs), have a cappuccino machine in the lobby and shit like that. Again, this really only has whatever value one subjectively ascribes to it. One could also argue it's more likely a Hyundai won't NEED to go back to the dealership as often (one of the CLAs I rented had substantial electrical gremlins, the likes I had never experienced before), and there's a lot of value in not having the hassle of an unreliable car.
With respect to resale value you are absolutely 100% wrong. Entry-level 'luxury' cars have some of the WORST depreciation in the industry. From a quick google search: "These 11 Cars Embarrassingly Lose Half Their Value in Three Years" (https://www.thestreet.com/slideshow/14247792/1/these-cars-lose-half-their-value-in-three-years.html). I'll save you a click, here's the list:
11. Ford Focus
10. Ford Fusion
9. Volkswagen Jetta
8. Infiniti Q50
7. BMW 3-series
6. Nissan Maxima
5. BMW 5-series
4. Mercedes-Benz C-class
3. Mercedes-Benz E-class
2. Cadillac ATS
1. Cadillac CTS
Resale value of a CLA/GLA will likely be dogshit.
Cute list, but I can't seem to find the CLA/GLA on it. Anyways, time for a reality check, my excited Cowgary bumpkins...
Used BMW 1-Series and Mercedes CLAs...
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/1%20series/niagara%20falls/ontario/19_10554412_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=18_15_236&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/1%20series/boisbriand(north%20of%20montr%c3%a9al)/quebec/5_37430081_2005815182610706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=19_15_236&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/1%20series/vancouver/british%20columbia/19_10512678_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&orup=25_15_236&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/bmw/1%20series/vaughan/ontario/5_38090288_20090806102017371/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=hl&orup=30_15_236&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/mercedes-benz/cla-class/oakville/ontario/19_10509661_/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=6&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/mercedes-benz/cla-class/montr%c3%a9al/quebec/5_38078302_ct2004722103748706/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=5&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/mercedes-benz/cla-class/grimsby/ontario/5_37081275_20121205103727722/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=5&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
And now, its closest domestic competitor... ie, the "premium" $35-40,000 domestic...
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/buick/regal/st-eustache/quebec/5_35561953_ct20046210470456/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=4&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/buick/regal/vancouver/british%20columbia/5_35720400_bs2007618226/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=5&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
http://www.autotrader.ca/a/buick/regal/st%20catharines/ontario/5_37560776_20080621144633703/?showcpo=ShowCpo&ursrc=pl&urp=5&urm=8&pc=K0K%201L0&sprx=-1
That list is also pointless because the mid-level luxury cars on that list (3 series, 5 series, E class, C class, CTS) all play in that area of diminished returns... the $50-80,000 MSRP zone new. I say diminished returns because there's not much of a market for 3-5 year old cars priced at $30-50,000. People just won't pay that for a used mainstream albeit "premium" car, no matter what it is. Entry lux cars priced at $40K fare much better, because people WILL pay high 20's to low 30's for used German cars. Equivalent domestic "premium" cars fare much worse though, as can be seen in my examples above. I can post more examples if you want.
Well I think a bigger point here is that the entry point of luxury has moved a good bit downmarket. Back in my day the C-Class was the way into MB, and the cost of entry was a good bit higher than something like a top end Accord. And even though the MB was slower and had less equipment, it was better built with nicer materials and a higher overall sense of luxury.
Base CLA250 is way cheaper than an Accord Touring, and is a much worse car. I'd even compare the CLA250 to a Civic Touring. In Europe it's a different ball game and the precedent for a $25K Benz was set decades ago.... but here in the US I think it just cheapens the brand. The market agrees- (http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/mercedes-benz-cla-class-sales-figures-usa-canada/) CLA sales peaked in 2016; GLA in 2015 (though GLA sales haven't fallen as far as the CLA). Sometimes you can go a bridge too far. I think Americans would have been OK with a more decontented C/GLC.
I kind of like the idea of smaller luxury cars, but they do need to do something to differentiate themselves IMHO.
I do think the styling on the CLA is well above average, but based on the posts here it doesn't sound like it has the driving feel of a MB. If they could make a small CLA sized car that drove like a "real" MB that could have some real value (in theory).
The BMW in the oh pee looks like a Golf though. I am not saying that is bad (since I drive a Golf) but I think BMW would have a tough time selling that in the US. The Audi A3 didn't really do well when it was a hatchback but when they switched it to sedan only (in the US) it has done really well. If the BMW 1-series is a stylish sedan for the US market I could see it doing really well even if it is just a glorified Golf/Civic type car.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on April 06, 2018, 09:04:27 AM
I kind of like the idea of smaller luxury cars, but they do need to do something to differentiate themselves IMHO.
I do think the styling on the CLA is well above average, but based on the posts here it doesn't sound like it has the driving feel of a MB. If they could make a small CLA sized car that drove like a "real" MB that could have some real value (in theory).
The BMW in the oh pee looks like a Golf though. I am not saying that is bad (since I drive a Golf) but I think BMW would have a tough time selling that in the US. The Audi A3 didn't really do well when it was a hatchback but when they switched it to sedan only (in the US) it has done really well. If the BMW 1-series is a stylish sedan for the US market I could see it doing really well even if it is just a glorified Golf/Civic type car.
No, lux hatches don't do well in the US, although they do better up here (relatively) and especially in Europe.
Yes I agree SJ_GTI. The X1 is also doing well here as it is in a body style we like.
But the CLA is a sedan and still not doing well. It just needs to be better. Ironically enough the MK7 Golf is pretty Benz like.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 06, 2018, 08:44:59 AM
The market agrees- (http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2013/10/mercedes-benz-cla-class-sales-figures-usa-canada/) CLA sales peaked in 2016; GLA in 2015 (though GLA sales haven't fallen as far as the CLA).
And where does this talk about "the CLA has been a great success for Merc" come from? The Buick Verano—a compact 'luxury' car that perhaps was not as 'premium' if only because of the badge—had 50% higher annual sales and it was axed for being a 'failure'!
history and heritage
history and heritage
history and heritage
history and heritage
history and heritage
history and heritage
:rage::rage::rage:
God dammit it just pisses me off that that's why a some people defend these stupid fucking cars.
Quote from: 93JC on April 06, 2018, 03:21:59 PM
And where does this talk about "the CLA has been a great success for Merc" come from? The Buick Verano—a compact 'luxury' car that perhaps was not as 'premium' if only because of the badge—had 50% higher annual sales and it was axed for being a 'failure'!
I'm not sure if the Verano was a "failure". I don't think GM had the manufacturing capacity for it, and with the PSA sale there's no incentive to rebadge a product that is no longer theirs
Yea the Verano was a weird one. I feel like sales were on the rise when they cancelled it.
Quote from: 93JC on April 06, 2018, 03:45:02 PM
:rage::rage::rage:
God dammit it just pisses me off that that's why a some people defend these stupid fucking cars.
:lol: :dance:
:lol: