And it was not great.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a23145269/alfa-romeo-giulia-quadrifoglio-reliability-update/
Over ~430 days, it spent 80 at the dealership :(
Never get an early first year high performance model of anything
The Alfa QF is like that smoking hot 9/10 that you got with, that you know will ruin your life if you let her, but can't help thinking about whenever you're not with her. And then when you are, its good for like 20 minutes and then just falls apart in glorious fashion. And as you make up your mind to leave her and walk away, you look back and see just how sexy she looks and she's back in your mind again as you start to jump through all the hoops of how you could make it work next time.
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance. If you want an appliance, get a Camcord, Hyunkia, whatever. :huh:
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance. If you want an appliance, get a Camcord, Hyunkia, whatever. :huh:
Meh, its not that simple. If I had half (or even a third) as much shop time with my car (which I don't consider just an "appliance") I would be very irritated and would have sold it and absolutely gone with a different make.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance. If you want an appliance, get a Camcord, Hyunkia, whatever. :huh:
I mean, it's not an exotic either. It's an
entry-level sport-luxury sedan; same class as the
3er M3. I'd expect higher long term maintenance costs than a mainstreamer, but spending literally 18% of it's time in the shop is absurd.
EDIT: Upgraded to M3 since this is about the QF.
My friend lemon law'Ed his Giulia. And my other friend says his Giulia has given him nothing but problems.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance.
Yes, appliances work more than 85% of the time, as does all of the GQF's competition :lol:
It's not like this is an Ariel Atom or something. It's a sedan with an automatic transmission. If it's not reliable enough for daily duty what's the point?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 27, 2019, 12:04:34 PM
Meh, its not that simple. If I had half (or even a third) as much shop time with my car (which I don't consider just an "appliance") I would be very irritated and would have sold it and absolutely gone with a different make.
If you wear the tires out at 12 to 15 k, it kinda tells you how the car was treated. Pidlin' to work and back is entirely different.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:20:15 PM
If you wear the tires out at 12 to 15 k, it kinda tells you how the car was treated. Pidlin' to work and back is entirely different.
The tires on my S4 would wear at about that pace. Stickier tires just tend to wear fast.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:20:15 PM
If you wear the tires out at 12 to 15 k, it kinda tells you how the car was treated. Pidlin' to work and back is entirely different.
I don't track or autox the S2000, but I redline it damn near every time I drive it and take it on some fairly hard drives on twisty mountain roads. I've had literally nothing go wrong with it.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 27, 2019, 12:29:21 PM
The tires on my S4 would wear at about that pace. Stickier tires just tend to wear fast.
Really? You had to get new tires after 12 to 15K?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 27, 2019, 12:38:29 PM
I don't track or autox the S2000, but I redline it damn near every time I drive it and take it on some fairly hard drives on twisty mountain roads. I've had literally nothing go wrong with it.
Other than the differential, it seems that most of the problems had to do with electronics. Can't really blame a car for poor programming.
As for the S2000, imo, it's a jewel. Never sell it.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Really? You had to get new tires after 12 to 15K?
Sporty/grippy tires have tread that isn't as deep as your average all-season tire and they are made of softer, grippier compounds that wear out faster.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance. If you want an appliance, get a Camcord, Hyunkia, whatever. :huh:
Tires and brakes that wear super quick? Lousy MPG? Expensive maintenance service? Worn-out clutch at 50,000 miles? These are types of things that are forgivable for a 500+ hp performance vehicle. ALL vehicles should be an appliance when it comes to things like fuel pumps, sensors and bearings - that stuff was figured out decades ago. Ze Germans and le Italianos just can't seem to pull it together.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 27, 2019, 12:55:46 PM
Sporty/grippy tires have tread that isn't as deep as your average all-season tire and they are made of softer, grippier compounds that wear out faster.
Obviously, but 12 to 15K?
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Really? You had to get new tires after 12 to 15K?
For a hardcore summer tire, easily, even with normal driving. An R-compound tire like on the ZL1 1LE, GT350R or Z/28, will be done in well less than 10,000 miles (and within just a couple of hours of track use). Peruse TireRack for owner reports of tire life for ultra hi-po tires.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Really? You had to get new tires after 12 to 15K?
I went through 3 sets of summer tires and two sets of winter tires on my Audi before I sold it. I didn't track it or anything. It had something like 60k or 70k miles when I traded it in on my current car.
I suspect I am on the last season of my current car's summer tires. I am at about 15k currently, but keep in mind I have winter tires for 1/3 of the year (December-March) so I have probably only put about 10-12k miles on these tires.
It should have been mentioned that early 2017 models had some significant issues that were fixed with ECU issues. Their experience would be.mich different with a 2018+ model.
The "service electronic throttle control" CEL they complain about in Alfa land is just the generic check engine light. It can illuminate for something bad or simply not closing the hood properly or significant left foot braking and gas being applied (fixed in a software update). It will auto reset when a CO diction is no longer detected.
Quote from: r0tor on June 27, 2019, 10:03:56 AM
Never get an early first year high performance model of anything
These issues aren't really assembly related, it's design related. You can't convince me they're going to make design changes to fix all of these issues in the first year.
C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.
Owner reviews from TireRack for the tires (though most are not for the Alfa):
Owners complain that these tires don't last, but mine have at least 50% of the tread left at 5,000 miles and maybe more.
I couldnt believe they lasted over 12k miles!
I was skeptical about the tire life being a 60 wear rated tire, but to my surprise, it appears like they may last about 12-14k miles, which is excellent for a streetable track tire.
When I switched over to winter tires the rears were worn down to the wear bars but the fronts still had some life left. That was only with 2300 miles on them with zero track time.
You can probably expect about 100 miles of track time on a set of these tires--you had better buy a whole pallet of them.
As expected these tires wore quickly, but I would expect more traction from an r-compound that wears this quickly (replacing after 4000 miles).
Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 27, 2019, 01:11:13 PM
I went through 3 sets of summer tires and two sets of winter tires on my Audi before I sold it. I didn't track it or anything. It had something like 60k or 70k miles when I traded it in on my current car.
I suspect I am on the last season of my current car's summer tires. I am at about 15k currently, but keep in mind I have winter tires for 1/3 of the year (December-March) so I have probably only put about 10-12k miles on these tires.
Was it worth having such fast wearing tires just to drive to work and back?
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 01:22:14 PM
Was it worth having such fast wearing tires just to drive to work and back?
Yep
Quote from: Laconian on June 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.
Damn, really? Sounds like you need to up your ad blocker game. :lol:
Other than a single "related videos" thing after the 2nd paragraph, my only ads are at the very bottom of the page (and are just links to other C&D stories, so they're acceptable).
Quote from: Laconian on June 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.
The ad load of free news sites is becoming unbearable. C&D is actually not that bad in the context of the whole spectrum.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 27, 2019, 01:04:29 PM
For a hardcore summer tire, easily, even with normal driving. An R-compound tire like on the ZL1 1LE, GT350R or Z/28, will be done in well less than 10,000 miles (and within just a couple of hours of track use). Peruse TireRack for owner reports of tire life for ultra hi-po tires.
I'm hoping to get 10k out of my RE-71Rs but we'll see.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 01:25:35 PM
That's nuts.
I agree. That's why my tires are hard and have (well, had, when new) 1/2" deep tread. :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 27, 2019, 02:17:57 PM
I'm hoping to get 10k out of my RE-71Rs but we'll see.
Seeing that you track it, well sort of, it's worth it.
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 27, 2019, 02:20:24 PM
I agree. That's why my tires are hard and have (well, had, when new) 1/2" deep tread. :lol:
The Michelins on my wife's '09 Escape, that my daughter and boyfriend use, though not that often, are the originals. I know I should insist that they replace them and I have, but they still have a lot of tread.
As for super sticky, unless you're doing some serious street racing, it's just a big waste.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 02:28:23 PM
The Michelins on my wife's '09 Escape, that my daughter and boyfriend use, though not that often, are the originals. I know I should insist that they replace them and I have, but they still have a lot of tread.
As for super sticky, unless you're doing some serious street racing, it's just a big waste.
Meh, if you've got the $, I don't see an issue with it. Tires are the only thing that touch the road and the feel of a tire can make a big difference in driving, even just everyday driving.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:45:16 PM
Really? You had to get new tires after 12 to 15K?
I got less than 9k out of the original Pirellis on the Mustang. Fronts and rears were both down to near the wear bars. I've got about 7k on the rears of my second set of tires and they're more than half gone. Second set of fronts had to be replaced after 4k miles due to damage, so I'm on my third pair of those.
I repeat, that's nuts.
Cheaper than boating/flying/heroin.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 27, 2019, 07:51:28 PM
Cheaper than boating/flying/heroin.
How about proper street tires and a set of track tires for those who actually go to the track.
Quote from: Laconian on June 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.
And they massacred the forums...err...backfires section.
Quote from: Submariner on June 27, 2019, 08:55:05 PM
And they massacred the forums...err...backfires section.
Horrible!
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 07:55:46 PM
How about proper street tires and a set of track tires for those who actually go to the track.
Why does it matter? It's not your money :lol:
IMO UHP A/S is enough for primarily street driven cars that see cold weather. If you need more grip just get wider wheels and tires.
The Continentals that came with my Focus lasted almost 100,000 kms. I replaced them with Goodyears, and one day on the highway during a rainstorm I noticed the car was a bit squirrelly in the wet. Had a look at the tires when I pulled into a rest stop, and I was shocked to see they were worn beyond the wear bars and almost bald. They lasted less than 25,000 km. I have another set of Goodyears now but a different type, but only because I got them for almost nothing under warranty. 6000 kms on them so far, and I'm keeping an eye on them.
The wear they report is perfectly normal for that type of car and tires with street driving.
I love the QF but yes I am scared of the reliability and in Mexico even more so because of the even less capable dealer network here. In comparison, my E90 M3 spent no more than a week in the shop for unscheduled maintenance over 5 years/50K miles. My E46 maybe a month or two over 13 years/65K miles.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 07:55:46 PM
How about proper street tires and a set of track tires for those who actually go to the track.
Man, you're super concerned with other people's tires.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 07:55:46 PM
How about proper street tires and a set of track tires for those who actually go to the track.
These class of cars are emotional purchases. You CAN feel the difference a better, softer tire makes in sporty street driving. To buyers of these class of cars, that can easily matter enough to eat the additional cost (on top of the already irrational cost of the car itself).
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on June 28, 2019, 07:41:19 AM
These class of cars are emotional purchases. You CAN feel the difference a better, softer tire makes in sporty street driving. To buyers of these class of cars, that can easily matter enough to eat the additional cost (on top of the already irrational cost of the car itself).
Absolutely you do. When I go from winter back to summer tires it makes a pretty big difference in how the car handles...and the winter tires are use are performance winter tires (they are basically equal to all season tires in the winter).
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 07:55:46 PM
How about proper street tires and a set of track tires for those who actually go to the track.
Couldn't agree more - these types of tires are ridiculous. No on needs that and extremely few can legit afford it.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 28, 2019, 05:31:20 AM
Why does it matter? It's not your money :lol:
IMO UHP A/S is enough for primarily street driven cars that see cold weather. If you need more grip just get wider wheels and tires.
Just making a point. I'm actually pretty surprised that tires of this type wear so quickly.
How do they do in the rain?
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 28, 2019, 07:34:32 AM
Man, you're super concerned with other people's tires.
Man, I'm just having a discussion. Surprised that some tires wear so quick even if they are street/track tires.
Michelin Pilot Super Sports (and now Pilot Sport 4S) are worth every penny. They're made of an alien material.
Quote from: GoCougs on June 28, 2019, 09:04:16 AM
Couldn't agree more - these types of tires are ridiculous. No on needs that and extremely few can legit afford it.
It is an $80,000 car with poor residuals. The buyers go into it knowing they're taking a bath. What's a few thousand dollars more? :huh:
Quote from: MrH on June 28, 2019, 09:27:02 AM
Michelin Pilot Super Sports (and now Pilot Sport 4S) are worth every penny. They're made of an alien material.
I bought them for my Infiniti and only put about 6,000 miles on them... but the buyer of my car didn't bat an eye when I told her about them :cry:
Quote from: Laconian on June 28, 2019, 11:06:03 AM
I bought them for my Infiniti and only put about 6,000 miles on them... but the buyer of my car didn't bat an eye when I told her about them :cry:
I thought it was all hype, until I got them on the BRZ. Now I've got the new 4S on the S2000. Great in the wet, even better in the dry. Below 50 degrees they get really sketchy though.
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 27, 2019, 12:00:55 PM
Obviously, the Alfa Romeo Giulia Quadrifoglio is not an appliance. If you want an appliance, get a Camcord, Hyunkia, whatever. :huh:
Its not a vintage Ferrari either.
I had the super sports on the M3 and replaced with the 4S, both were great. I think I got like 12k miles out of the SS, not a huge deal to me as I'm such a low mileage driver (think I put about 15k on that car over 3 years). If I drove more miles that would be a bigger issue, I don't think I'd want to buy new tires every year.
How much does it cost to get tires swapped? Maybe my OEM tires with lots of life in them (lol I never drive) could be my winter tires... :hmm:
Quote from: Laconian on June 28, 2019, 11:05:30 AM
It is an $80,000 car with poor residuals. The buyers go into it knowing they're taking a bath. What's a few thousand dollars more? :huh:
Gougs just likes to flex his frugality muscles whenever possible.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 28, 2019, 11:17:25 AM
Its not a vintage Ferrari either.
Well, it's not even a vintage Alfa either. Kinda nice that they're making a good effort again at producing a car for the enthusiast. Their saying used to be "Nothing handles like an Alfa." Might be getting close to that again.
Quote from: Laconian on June 28, 2019, 11:25:34 AM
How much does it cost to get tires swapped? Maybe my OEM tires with lots of life in them (lol I never drive) could be my winter tires... :hmm:
Probably about $25 a tire to swap and balance.
Quote from: Laconian on June 28, 2019, 11:25:34 AM
How much does it cost to get tires swapped? Maybe my OEM tires with lots of life in them (lol I never drive) could be my winter tires... :hmm:
I haven't had to do it for a few years (I have two sets of wheels now, so I just swap them myself), but it looks like it cost me $64 to get my winters mounted at the end of 2016.
Yeah, my guy charges $60 for a swap 'n balance.
Quote from: Laconian on June 28, 2019, 11:25:34 AM
How much does it cost to get tires swapped? Maybe my OEM tires with lots of life in them (lol I never drive) could be my winter tires... :hmm:
Around here, amongst major shops, Discount Tire is the cheapest at $15 a corner. The average seems to be about $20-25.
To me it's nigh-unreadable because of the content, not just the ads!
Quote from: Laconian on June 27, 2019, 01:18:24 PM
C&D's site is nigh-unreadable, it's an ad every fucking paragraph with a video on the side.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 28, 2019, 11:28:15 AM
Gougs just likes to flex his frugality muscles whenever possible.
Nah, I'll spend where it matters for me. This is in the same category as auto makers boasting about 'Ring times, plus it's annoying (performance and wet-traction safety degrades by the month).
Quote from: GoCougs on June 28, 2019, 01:10:54 PM
Nah, I'll spend where it matters for me. This is in the same category as auto makers boasting about 'Ring times, plus it's annoying (performance and wet-traction safety degrades by the month).
You have no problem with the wastefulness and pointlessness of the ZL1 though :lol: :zzz:
The way I see it, summer tires only make sense on a car that doesn't get driven in cold weather. UHP A/Ss are pretty damn good on the street and don't turn to glass in cold weather.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 29, 2019, 07:46:03 PM
The way I see it, summer tires only make sense on a car that doesn't get driven in cold weather. UHP A/Ss are pretty damn good on the street and don't turn to glass in cold weather.
Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.
I've driven my Contis in temperatures dipping into the 30s and while they have far less grip than in warmer temperatures, they aren't unmanageable or dangerous in any way. Not that much, if any, worse than lo-po all seasons you might get on a CUV, really. I believe MPSSes are the same. I wouldn't go sub-freezing with them, but if you live someplace that almost never dips below freezing, you could year-round them without any drama as long as you don't try to drive on them as hard as you would in warmer temperatures when it's cooler out.
Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 29, 2019, 07:54:39 PM
Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.
Yeah I'll probably do UHP A/S on the S2000 next time around. I don't push it hard enough to justify RE-11s or PS4Ss.
Quote from: MX793 on June 29, 2019, 08:19:47 PM
I've driven my Contis in temperatures dipping into the 30s and while they have far less grip than in warmer temperatures, they aren't unmanageable or dangerous in any way. Not that much, if any, worse than lo-po all seasons you might get on a CUV, really. I believe MPSSes are the same. I wouldn't go sub-freezing with them, but if you live someplace that almost never dips below freezing, you could year-round them without any drama as long as you don't try to drive on them as hard as you would in warmer temperatures when it's cooler out.
Yeah, I've driven RE-11s in like 7 degree temps during a freak cold spell in Atlanta when I just had one car. I wouldn't suggest hard cornering in those temps, but they were fine for driving to/from work.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2019, 06:36:57 AM
Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires
You're talking about different tires from different manufacturers on different cars, and you chalk the difference up to the performance rating? :confused:
The G and Z are the same damn car and all factors should have leaned in the Z's favor. In reality it was no better in good weather and much worse in the cold.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2019, 12:08:29 PM
The G and Z are the same damn car and all factors should have leaned in the Z's favor. In reality it was no better in good weather and much worse in the cold.
Same platform, but the G has a significantly longer wheelbase. Also, while I can't remember which specific mods you did to your cars (i.e. maybe you actually did have the same parts on your two cars), based on a few minutes of Googling, the stock springs/shocks are not the same parts and have different ride heights/stiffnesses, even though they're interchangeable.
But even if you were in the literal same car on the same road in identical conditions, writing off an entire performance category based on some experience with a single model of tire seems a bit rash to me.
I had Michelon Pilot Sport A/S on the G - nice and stable but a bit loud and rough, rock hard in temps below about 45F, and were worth only ~30,000 miles. Now have some ho-hum Yokohamas, which have none of those downsides. You'll never convince me buying summer tires or R-compound tires is anything but equivalent to bragging about 'Ring times (other than of course for cars for which there are no A/S available, like a ZR-1 or some such).
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 30, 2019, 06:36:57 AM
Maybe it was the difference in the tires (NT555 vs DWS06) but in the cold the G felt like it had AWD on its A/Ss vs the summers on the Z. Even just putting a little power down in a slow corner in the Z would upset it. But in good weather the wider fronts of the G gripped much harder (despite carrying more weight). That's what really turned me off from summer tires
Not all summer tires are created equal. My P-Zeroes were garbage under 50F. Super greasy. IIRC, the literature said do not operate under 45F. The Contis I think say don't use under 20F. No experience with Nitto, but I wouldn't be surprised if they were the same given that they're a more budget-oriented performance tire.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 29, 2019, 07:54:39 PM
Even if it's just a summer cruising car, the sticky hi-po summer tires don't make sense unless you're doing something with the car that necessitates 8/10 or higher grip levels - autox, occasional HPDEs, etc. Otherwise just stick with a milder summer tire (BFG Comp 2 or similar) or a UHP A/S.
I have Michelin Pilot SuperSports on the G37xS, and basically I can never go back to all seasons ever again. I have dedicated snow tires for the G37xS on their own wheels, Michelin X-ice Xi3. I change them around thanksgiving and tax day.
I see no point to all seasons if you have snow tires. They just do everything worse than the summer tires in every season but winter, and for that season I have winter tires. The PSS tires have performed better in terms of road noise, steering feel, braking, wet performance, etc. I've driven them down to 25 degrees F without issue. I'm currently on their 3rd season on them and around 25K miles. I'll probably change them out next season.
These tires and the RWD G37 sway bar swap have basically saved this car for me. I was going to sell the G37xS because it wasn't enjoyable to drive. The tire swap made this car enjoyable enough to drive that I'm basically planning to drive it into the ground before getting a new car.
I will likely never buy another set of all seasons (aka no season tires), ever again. Ever car I own is going to be on a dedicated summer/dedicated winter set up.
If you haven't tried putting good dedicated summer tires on your daily driver, then you definitely have to try it. It transforms the car. I can never go back.
I think the PSS' awesomeness is more a Michelin thing than a summer tire thing. The A/S 3s are top rated in the all season category too
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 09, 2019, 05:25:24 AM
I think the PSS' awesomeness is more a Michelin thing than a summer tire thing. The A/S 3s are top rated in the all season category too
You mean that one bad tire might not be representative of an entire performance category. ;)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 09, 2019, 11:09:42 AM
You mean that one bad tire might not be representative of an entire performance category. ;)
No I mean that one exceptionally good brand is not necessarily representative of whatever categories they play in
There's Michelin and then there's everyone else
Michelin made a great tire in a category that no one else really competes in. But they don't even offer a tire in some other good categories. :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 10, 2019, 06:18:22 AM
No I mean that one exceptionally good brand is not necessarily representative of whatever categories they play in
There's Michelin and then there's everyone else
So why can there be exceptionally good tires but not exceptionally bad tires?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on July 10, 2019, 10:24:56 AM
So why can there be exceptionally good tires but not exceptionally bad tires?
Never said that either :facepalm:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on July 10, 2019, 10:27:49 AM
Never said that either :facepalm:
I just don't understand why you'd write off all summer tires based on experience with one tire, but when 565 did the same thing with all-seasons, you get all defensive and claim that the only possible explanation is that Michelin is leaps and bounds above everyone else.
Maybe you were just running crappy summers. Maybe he was just running crappy all seasons.
FWIW, I haven't had any of the issues that you complained about on your summers with my Bridgestone RE-11s (same performance class as the PSS of its era).
Why do you guys with RWD cars want more grip on the street?
For FWD, I get it. Understeer is never fun
RWD cars understeer too. Z did... G was basically neutral on the street
No fuss launches are also nice
I would buy a set of wheels/summer tires for the Giulia if I already didn't have 2 sets laying in my garage from the RX8 and my wife would shoot me.
I was really impressed with the pirelli all seasons in fall/winter/spring... But ever since it got hot outside they feel mushy and greasy and sap some of the fun out of the car
Speaking of the qudrafogogogolollipoio...
https://youtu.be/98BPhZIxV9Y
Quote from: Rich on July 10, 2019, 10:50:37 AM
Why do you guys with RWD cars want more grip on the street?
For FWD, I get it. Understeer is never fun
So Dakota doesn't spin out while trail braking off ramps.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on July 10, 2019, 01:29:23 PM
So Dakota doesn't spin out while trail braking off ramps.
Guard rail braking instead of trail braking
Quote from: r0tor on July 11, 2019, 06:27:44 AM
Guard rail braking instead of trail braking
Catch the edge of the pavement on the inside shoulder. Grip +1000
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on July 11, 2019, 06:36:49 AM
Catch the edge of the pavement on the inside shoulder. Grip +1000
In motocross, we call that "railing the berm".
Quote from: MX793 on July 11, 2019, 07:05:03 AM
In motocross, we call that "railing the berm".
It works in trucks, too. Sidewalls FTW.
Quote from: r0tor on July 11, 2019, 06:27:44 AM
Guard rail braking instead of trail braking
:lol:
When my dad bought his '71 Camaro in SoCal back in the early 90s, the PO claimed the big scratch down the passenger side door was from a shopping cart. Nah bro, that's from a guardrail and it's pretty obvious.
(It's long gone now, the car got painted in ~2001)