Autonomous Cars

Started by AutobahnSHO, October 08, 2015, 08:53:13 AM

CaminoRacer

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 19, 2018, 12:56:54 PM
people will learn quick not to run into the street without looking. (they shouldn't be already)

I wonder how well AI can discern people's potential actions. I can usually spot people who are likely to do something like jaywalk or change lanes without signalling. Can current AI tech do that, or will it need a few more years?
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 19, 2018, 01:02:54 PM
Don't make assumptions, we have no idea what happened here.

The way the AI cars are programmed they would not just run someone over, they literally are programmed on the safe side so if a person is just standing in the street, the car stops (if it sees the person). It could be the car did not see them in time. it could be lots of things.   

But the person behind the wheel didn't stop either, so either they weren't paying attention, or didn't see the person either.
So I assume the 'driver' did not see them, which leads me to believe the victim appeared too suddenly for computer or 'driver' reaction. :huh:
Will

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 19, 2018, 01:19:59 PM
I wonder how well AI can discern people's potential actions. I can usually spot people who are likely to do something like jaywalk or change lanes without signalling. Can current AI tech do that, or will it need a few more years?

It can't. The next few years will be full of accidents as people re-adjust their driving to cars which follow the rules.
Will

veeman

The pedestrian killed was walking a bike.  That means the autopilot not only missed a human walking but also an upright bicycle. 

Galaxy

Quote from: veeman on March 19, 2018, 04:49:21 PM
The pedestrian killed was walking a bike.  That means the autopilot not only missed a human walking but also an upright bicycle. 

Maybe it was the combination that threw the software?



Soup DeVille

Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 19, 2018, 01:19:59 PM
I wonder how well AI can discern people's potential actions. I can usually spot people who are likely to do something like jaywalk or change lanes without signalling. Can current AI tech do that, or will it need a few more years?

Very limited; but the reaction time of the system is fast enough that we really hold no advantage there.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator


AutobahnSHO

Uber was driving 40mph. That's a little too high of a speed limit to be just crossing the street without looking.

https://www.yahoo.com/gma/self-driving-uber-car-kills-arizona-bicyclist-police-173903910--abc-news-topstories.html

Looks like a wide open area but the article before this ^^ said she came out of shadows.
Will

AutobahnSHO

Well car definitely should have stopped. human in 'driver seat' was looking down, and the picture from the car of the victim is pretty damning.

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/police-release-video-fatal-crash-uber-self-driving-232906380.html

Will

Morris Minor

Video of the crash here. I don't see any indication that the system detected her and did any kind of automatic emergency braking. Theoretically, in the dark, it should be sensing/seeing her & her bicycle & reacting way before any human driver could.
https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2018/03/20/us/self-driving-uber-pedestrian-killed.html
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Morris Minor on March 22, 2018, 05:32:15 AM
Theoretically, in the dark, it should be sensing/seeing her & her bicycle & reacting way before any human driver could.

Yup, which means the auto-driving cars "should be" safer. The fact that it never applied brakes though seems funny. A human driver still would have hit her, but hopefully not going as fast. (not that it matters, a 10-20mph hit can kill someone who gets knocked over and hits their head hard).
Will

Morris Minor

Also (fm WSJ):
"The Uber operator's criminal background may also draw scrutiny. On Monday, Tempe Sgt. Ronald Elcock identified Uber's operator as Rafael Vasquez. It isn't clear how long Mr. Vasquez has been at Uber, and he couldn't be reached Wednesday for comment.

He was convicted and given a five-year sentence in Maricopa County for attempted armed robbery in 2000, according to Arizona Department of Corrections records, a sentence served concurrently with a one-year sentence for a 1999 false statement conviction.

He also has traffic violations, pleading guilty in 1998 to driving with a suspended, revoked or canceled license in Tucson Municipal Court, and in 2012 was cited for failing to produce proof of insurance and driving without a current registration.
"
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

AutobahnSHO

I don't think any of that has anything to do with the accident, but still doesn't look good.
Will

Soup DeVille

Going back 20 years to find a suspended license is a bit much.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Morris Minor

Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 22, 2018, 07:27:45 AM
Going back 20 years to find a suspended license is a bit much.
Well - his history would not put his resume at the top of my pile when looking candidates for a high profile, high stakes exercise like this.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

Rich

$10 that UBER hired these positions through a temp agency to avoid ancilliary labor costs.
2003 Mazda Miata 5MT; 2005 Subaru Impreza Outback Sport 4AT

Laconian

Quote from: Rich on March 22, 2018, 09:30:15 PM
$10 that UBER hired these positions through a temp agency to avoid ancilliary labor costs.

+1000 Almost certainly a vendor; standard operating procedure.

You pay minimum wage for a position, you get crappy/distracted employees, story at 11.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

veeman

The pedestrian walked onto a dimly lighted road straight in front of a car moving 40 mph.  The car should have "seen" her and the driver should have been more attentive to the road ahead but... if there was no autopilot on, that's a very hard accident to avoid. 


12,000 RPM

OK, finally watched the video. Yes, very avoidable. Black eye for Uber and Volvo, systems should have caught this.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

AutobahnSHO

Computer with radar/lidar/infrared should have caught the pedestrian, a human would not have. They might have braked some at the last second though, if they weren't relying 100% on the car to drive.
Will

Morris Minor

#320
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 23, 2018, 06:16:51 AM
OK, finally watched the video. Yes, very avoidable. Black eye for Uber and Volvo, systems should have caught this.
I'm guessing Waymo, Tesla et al are busy modeling & reproducing this to see how their systems react. But it does look like basic-level failure of an obvious hazard scenario. The guy was not thrown forward into his seatbelt by any kind of AEB process. Maybe the bicycle scattered the lidar return.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

CaminoRacer

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 23, 2018, 07:12:35 AM
Computer with radar/lidar/infrared should have caught the pedestrian, a human would not have. They might have braked some at the last second though, if they weren't relying 100% on the car to drive.

Idk, that video is suspiciously dark.

https://arstechnica.com/cars/2018/03/police-chief-said-uber-victim-came-from-the-shadows-dont-believe-it/
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

12,000 RPM

I would not put it past Uber to doctor the videos
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Laconian

Utilitarian cameras like dashcams, surveillance cameras, etc. tend to favor high gain at the expense of noise.

I wonder if they're using an inappropriate off the shelf camera, or one with funky autoexposure.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

AutobahnSHO

Will

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 23, 2018, 07:12:35 AM
Computer with radar/lidar/infrared should have caught the pedestrian, a human would not have. They might have braked some at the last second though, if they weren't relying 100% on the car to drive.

We don't know what systems were active on the car at the time. Part of the testing may be testing the system with one or more of the redundant systems offline.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 23, 2018, 01:19:53 PM
We don’t know what systems were active on the car at the time. Part of the testing may be testing the system with one or more of the redundant systems offline.

Yeah, and based on the other videos of the crash area the human 'driver' should have seen the pedestrian.
Will

Soup DeVille

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 23, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
Yeah, and based on the other videos of the crash area the human 'driver' should have seen the pedestrian.

He should have, but we know how bad people drive.

Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

giant_mtb

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on March 23, 2018, 01:39:21 PM
Yeah, and based on the other videos of the crash area the human 'driver' should have seen the pedestrian.

Video of the driver shows he was clearly distracted by his goddamn phone.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: giant_mtb on March 23, 2018, 01:55:42 PM
Video of the driver shows he was clearly distracted by his goddamn phone.

I'm shocked that he was even allowed to have it.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator