New-gen 2018 Lexus LS flagship sedan revealed

Started by 68_427, January 09, 2017, 07:07:02 AM

shp4man

The designer of that grill doesn't have any sense of proportion. The oddball interior reminds me of a late 50's Cadillac.

CaminoRacer

Quote from: shp4man on June 07, 2017, 03:42:45 PM
The designer of that grill doesn't have any sense of proportion. The oddball interior reminds me of a late 50's Cadillac.

https://youtu.be/stNse8OjWIE
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Cookie Monster

Quote from: Tave on June 07, 2017, 03:27:52 PM
Leather is easier to care for, and easier to match should you have to replace it. Good leather will wear better than cloth, although cloth is generally more durable.

Cloth is probably a little easier to make comfortable, which is obviously a big factor to many. Also obviously, cloth doesn't have heat issues.

I prefer leather because it's easier to care for and looks better. I don't want to feel overly-comfortable behind the wheel; I want to be supported so my back doesn't ache, but I don't need some couch cushion lulling me to sleep. And ultimately I'd like a cup of coffee now and then without permanently staining the upholstery.

Why does cloth automatically equal couch cushion? You can have some overstuffed leather seat from an early '00's Buick vs a hard cloth racing bucket seat. The material on the surface doesn't indicate how squishy it's going to be.

Cloth is just grippier and doesn't become uncomfortable to touch in extreme temperatures. I don't think the surface material has any bearing on the comfort. That's more a function of the shape and padding of the seat itself...
RWD > FWD
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Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
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GoCougs

The black cloth seats I had in the Accord were mega, and I think they were specific to the V6 model (harder, more bolstering). I liked them better than the G37 seats.

IMO leather's sole saving grace is it can be easier to clean as it obviously doesn't hold stains and smells as easily. If you stay on top of cloth (periodic deep/steam cleaning), and get a dark (black) color, all in, I think cloth is better.

12,000 RPM

I would prefer a nice cloth or suede in the G. Anyone who has made skin to larger contact on a hot day can understand why
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Tave

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 07, 2017, 08:50:59 PM
Why does cloth automatically equal couch cushion? You can have some overstuffed leather seat from an early '00's Buick vs a hard cloth racing bucket seat. The material on the surface doesn't indicate how squishy it's going to be.

Cloth is just grippier and doesn't become uncomfortable to touch in extreme temperatures. I don't think the surface material has any bearing on the comfort. That's more a function of the shape and padding of the seat itself...

I'm talking generalities. Sure there are crappy hard cloth seats, as well as overly-plush leather, but on average automakers seem to have an easier go of it making comfortable seats out of cloth. It's a softer base with which to build out the padding.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.

MrH

Cloth gets really gross over time.  I don't want to buy a car with years of someone else's farticles baked in.

I actually like Toyota's Softex better than real leather.  It's much more durable and wears better than real leather.  It's cooler, and softer.  Really easy to clean.  It's thermoplastic polyurethane based I believe.  All the TPU based skins are so much nicer than the TPU or PVC based material.  I wish the S2000 had it to be honest.
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SJ_GTI

Quote from: MrH on June 08, 2017, 07:17:17 AM
Cloth gets really gross over time.  I don't want to buy a car with years of someone else's farticles baked in.

I actually like Toyota's Softex better than real leather.  It's much more durable and wears better than real leather.  It's cooler, and softer.  Really easy to clean.  It's thermoplastic polyurethane based I believe.  All the TPU based skins are so much nicer than the TPU or PVC based material.  I wish the S2000 had it to be honest.

IIRC BMW's leatherette has generally been pretty nice as well. If it was perforated you could make a case that its better than leather (main issue with vinyl is breathability IMHO).

MrH

Quote from: SJ_GTI on June 08, 2017, 08:35:33 AM
IIRC BMW's leatherette has generally been pretty nice as well. If it was perforated you could make a case that its better than leather (main issue with vinyl is breathability IMHO).

Yeah, most PVCs are hot and sticky.  The Toyota Softex actually breathes and wicks moisture away better than leather.  It's great.
2023 Ford Lightning Lariat ER
2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
2023 BRZ Limited

Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

giant_mtb

A lot of the people I detail for don't realize that their "leather" seats aren't leather at all. 

Cookie Monster

Quote from: Tave on June 08, 2017, 05:38:08 AM
I'm talking generalities. Sure there are crappy hard cloth seats, as well as overly-plush leather, but on average automakers seem to have an easier go of it making comfortable seats out of cloth. It's a softer base with which to build out the padding.

I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.

I've been debating a nice aluminum Kerky... People always complain about them but I sat in a friend's and thought it was fairly comfortable.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.
Yea but you also prefer......
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SVT_Power

"On a given day, a given circumstance, you think you have a limit. And you then go for this limit and you touch this limit, and you think, 'Okay, this is the limit'. And so you touch this limit, something happens and you suddenly can go a little bit further. With your mind power, your determination, your instinct, and the experience as well, you can fly very high." - Ayrton Senna

Tave

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 08, 2017, 12:44:38 PM
I prefer my hard cloth fixed back racing seats to anything else.

You could prefer a bicycle seat with attached handle-bar streamers, I thought this was a conversation about what manufacturers are doing with their stock interiors.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.

Cookie Monster

Quote from: Tave on June 09, 2017, 09:17:08 AM
You could prefer a bicycle seat with attached handle-bar streamers, I thought this was a conversation about what manufacturers are doing with their stock interiors.

You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats,  and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:

I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.
RWD > FWD
President of the "I survived the Volvo S80 Thread" Club
2007 Mazda MX-5 | 1999 Honda Nighthawk 750 | 1989 Volvo 240 | 1991 Toyota 4Runner | 2006 Honda CBR600F4i | 2015 Yamaha FJ-09 | 1999 Honda CBR600F4 | 2009 Yamaha WR250X | 1985 Mazda RX-7 | 2000 Yamaha YZ426F | 2006 Yamaha FZ1 | 2002 Honda CBR954RR | 1996 Subaru Outback | 2018 Subaru Crosstrek | 1986 Toyota MR2
Quote from: 68_427 on November 27, 2016, 07:43:14 AM
Or order from fortune auto and when lyft rider asks why your car feels bumpy you can show them the dyno curve
1 3 5
├┼┤
2 4 R

Raza

Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

giant_mtb

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 09, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats,  and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:

I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.

I think cloth, overall, is a bit more pliable/flexible than a standard (p)leather, especially at lower temperatures where leather gets stiff.  The choice between cloth and leather seats is obviously mostly subjective and situational, so you won't hear me say one is better than the other, but I do believe the material choice can make a difference between the feel of the seat all else being equal.

MX793

Quote from: Cookie Monster on June 09, 2017, 10:40:05 AM
You were saying there are crappy hard cloth seats,  and I'm just saying that's what I like. :lol:

I still wouldn't agree with your statement that cloth is easier to build more comfortable seats out of. I still don't see what the surface choice has to do with padding or comfort. If cloth were really easier to make comfortable seats out of we wouldn't see leather option in otherwise cheap cars (Civic, etc). I guess only Mike would have some real insight into it but the surface material and the amount of padding or shape don't really seem correlated.

The proliferation of leather (or faux leather) seating has nothing to do with comfort.  First, leather is seen as "premium", so people buy it because it carries the connotation of luxury or "upscale".  Second, it's much easier to clean if you spill something on it.  Since most Americans like to eat while in their car, and those with spill-prone little tykes almost certain will have food and drink in the car, a surface that you can simply wipe clean with a damp cloth is a huge plus.  It also tends to hold up better.  Ever see how badly the color fades on cloth seats in a car that sits out in the sun all day?  The formerly black rear headrests on my Mazda had been sun-bleached to a very pale gray by the time I got rid of it.
Needs more Jiggawatts

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cawimmer430

Maybe it depends on the type of cloth (and the age of the seats) but I find the cloth seats in my BMW to be very easy to clean. All I do is vacuum dirt from them regularly and use a type of cloth-cleaning-liquid to give it some "shine" and nice fragrance.

At 10 years old the cloth seats in my car still look and feel new. I'll take a picture as soon as I can. The biggest problem I have with the seats is that they are not very comfortable for long journeys. The standard E87 seats suck (the sport seats are so much better, but were a costly option). This is why I have thin pillows all over the driving seat for back support. They do help.

And while cleaning leather seats is simple and easy, I just don't like this material, even in luxury cars. I always associate leather with slippery and sliding seats (and I hate the smell of new leather). Cloth seats feel grippier.
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MX793

Quote from: cawimmer430 on June 09, 2017, 04:37:29 PM
Maybe it depends on the type of cloth (and the age of the seats) but I find the cloth seats in my BMW to be very easy to clean. All I do is vacuum dirt from them regularly and use a type of cloth-cleaning-liquid to give it some "shine" and nice fragrance.

At 10 years old the cloth seats in my car still look and feel new. I'll take a picture as soon as I can. The biggest problem I have with the seats is that they are not very comfortable for long journeys. The standard E87 seats suck (the sport seats are so much better, but were a costly option). This is why I have thin pillows all over the driving seat for back support. They do help.


I'm not talking about cleaning up crumbs or "dry" dirt.  I'm talking about when a toddler drops their sippy cup and spills juice on the seat, or a little kid dumps their ice cream cone and it plops on the seat.  Stuff like that wipes very easily off of leather without staining.

QuoteAnd while cleaning leather seats is simple and easy, I just don't like this material, even in luxury cars. I always associate leather with slippery and sliding seats (and I hate the smell of new leather). Cloth seats feel grippier.

Cloth is grippier.  For performance driving, I prefer cloth.  It also doesn't get as hot in the summer or as cold in the winter.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
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2o6

When that guy vomited in my car, it would have been far worse if I had cloth seats

giant_mtb

As a detailer, I can totally attest to the pure havoc children wreak on an interior. Cloth can be a bitch in that regard, but so can leather...the diligence of the parents in cleaning up a mess sooner rather than later can make or break a stain. In general, leather will be easier to clean, especially for liquids and if you attack it right away. Cloth just instantly soaks anything up, so if you let it dry and bake, you're asking for permanence. I've seen super nasty leather/vinyl as well that basically requires loading it up with degreaser and scrubbing it with a brush (soft-bristled, like a toothbrush) and then either wiping or vacuuming up the soils.  But that's usually just a matter of long neglect (ie, never cleaning the seats) as opposed to the spot-stainability of cloth. 

Even further, certain manufacturer's materials, whether cloth or leather or carpet, come clean easier or better than others. Toyota and Subaru carpets, which tend to be less plush and more "trunk carpet"-like come clean a lot easier than the plush crap in a Buick.

12,000 RPM

I would be down for some kind of synthetic material in cars. Problem is I don't think waterproof materials breathe well, which would make summer pretty sticky and nasty WRT sweat. Not sure how skin safe Scotch Guard is either. I think if there were an easy solution it would be on the market already. I think we will put some kind of fabric cover over the seats in the MKX.... that will absorb more but it will keep the underlying leather cleaner.
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FoMoJo

Quote from: giant_mtb on June 09, 2017, 02:53:17 PM
I think cloth, overall, is a bit more pliable/flexible than a standard (p)leather, especially at lower temperatures where leather gets stiff.  The choice between cloth and leather seats is obviously mostly subjective and situational, so you won't hear me say one is better than the other, but I do believe the material choice can make a difference between the feel of the seat all else being equal.
What ever happened to mohair.  Beautiful stuff.  Nothing ever quite felt like it.  I clearly remember running my hands over it in my father's '38 Ford.  Soft, luxurious, rugged, never felt cold in the middle of winter.


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cawimmer430

Quote from: MX793 on June 09, 2017, 04:43:15 PM
I'm not talking about cleaning up crumbs or "dry" dirt.  I'm talking about when a toddler drops their sippy cup and spills juice on the seat, or a little kid dumps their ice cream cone and it plops on the seat.  Stuff like that wipes very easily off of leather without staining.

I've spilled water on the cloth seats, and some stains are slightly showing on the sides. But overall their condition is great; no tears or rips. They feel very durable when I clean them. I guess it's "quality cloth"? I dunno, it just feels durable and like a decent material.


PS: Thankfully I don't have kids riding with me. But I do chauffeur a friend around and her French Bulldog and that little guy loves to drool!  :praise:
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giant_mtb

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on June 10, 2017, 10:10:29 AM
I think we will put some kind of fabric cover over the seats in the MKX.... that will absorb more but it will keep the underlying leather cleaner.





Raza

Quote from: MX793 on June 09, 2017, 02:58:36 PM
The proliferation of leather (or faux leather) seating has nothing to do with comfort.  First, leather is seen as "premium", so people buy it because it carries the connotation of luxury or "upscale".  Second, it's much easier to clean if you spill something on it.  Since most Americans like to eat while in their car, and those with spill-prone little tykes almost certain will have food and drink in the car, a surface that you can simply wipe clean with a damp cloth is a huge plus.  It also tends to hold up better.  Ever see how badly the color fades on cloth seats in a car that sits out in the sun all day?  The formerly black rear headrests on my Mazda had been sun-bleached to a very pale gray by the time I got rid of it.

And smells.  Oh god, they hold on to smells.
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

cawimmer430

2018 Lexus LS Getting A Price Hike, Could Start At $76K



We haven't heard much about the 2018 Lexus LS lately but Automotive News is reporting the model will cost around $76,000 when it goes on sale in February.

If that number pans out, the 2018 LS will cost significantly more than the current model which starts at $72,520. However, the car should undercut rivals as the BMW 7-Series and Mercedes S-Class which start at $83,100 and $89,900, respectively.

Detailed pricing will be announced closer to launch but Lexus' marketing boss told the publication "We do expect to attract people from different brands who may have drifted away."

Lexus hopes the car's sportier styling and greater emphasis on performance will win converts and help increase annual sales to 12,000 units in the United States. This would be a dramatic increase from the 5,514 units that were sold in 2016.

One of the car's key attractions could be the new twin-turbo 3.5-liter V6 engine that produces 415 hp (309 kW) and 442 lb-ft (598 Nm) of torque. It is backed up by ten-speed automatic transmission which can be paired to optional all-wheel drive system.


Link: http://www.carscoops.com/2017/09/2018-lexus-ls-getting-price-hike-could.html
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