Guys, we have time.

Started by 12,000 RPM, July 31, 2017, 01:32:02 PM

Lebowski

#60
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 04, 2017, 09:50:34 AM
lol no.  If by rural you mean suburban and a hair further, sure.


Like I said, in any given area if the economic case can't be made for regular Uber drivers, where there are already people (presumably some of whom need/want some extra work) who own cars, I don't see how an economic case can be made for the capital investment of putting dedicated Uber vehicles out there.

IME Uber has already brought service to plenty of areas where taxis aren't there, at least in scale, and I've used Uber in areas I wouldn't exactly call suburban.

giant_mtb

Yeah, Uber definitely does reach further than a normal taxi company would.  Just a matter of paying for it.

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

AutobahnSHO

LOL Silly. People are truly amazingly fragile.
Will

GoCougs

Malcolm Gladwell just penned a piece for Car and Driver. In short, much as smart phones are decaying our culture, autonomous cars are along the same lines. WtP want to abdicate responsibility and it will make us ever more lower energy, listless and shifty (my editorializing):

https://www.caranddriver.com/features/what-happens-when-we-give-up-control-of-our-cars-feature

12,000 RPM

Where to even begin on that article... conspiratorial alarmist slippery slope nonsense.

People hate driving for a litany of very good reasons that have nothing to do with "decaying culture" and "abdication of responsibility". It's more practical shit like our crumbling infrastructure and increasingly long and maddening traffic jams. Crawling in rush hour traffic is the exact opposite of the freedom you purport automobiles to be. Needing a car to get anywhere is also the opposite of the freedom you purport automobiles to be. The option of the self-driving car is a net positive.

And as I proposed with this thread, even if autonomous cars will usher in the apocalypse, there are just too many hurdles to see this coming down the pike any time soon. I'm not worried either way.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

12,000 RPM

People are starting to wake up:

https://jalopnik.com/what-if-autonomous-cars-just-never-happen-1820778692

If safety is the goal, there is a lot of low hanging fruit. Distracted driving could be smartly killed with a few lines of code and an OS update. Americans need better driving instruction. Etc.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

I read this thread title as

"Gays, we have time"

giant_mtb

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on October 05, 2017, 06:40:54 AM
Needing a car to get anywhere is also the opposite of the freedom you purport automobiles to be.

Go ahead, bud.  You're free to walk if that's what freedom means to you.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: giant_mtb on November 30, 2017, 07:42:16 AM
Go ahead, bud.  You're free to walk if that's what freedom means to you.
Hardly. My point is, if you need a car to live, it's hardly something that brings you freedom.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

2o6

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 30, 2017, 10:56:54 AM
Hardly. My point is, if you need a car to live, it's hardly something that brings you freedom.


That's a big-ass stretch.


By the same token, if you can't access a car, how free are you?

MrH

Philosophical sporty. This ought to be a good one.
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12,000 RPM

Quote from: 2o6 on November 30, 2017, 12:06:57 PM

That's a big-ass stretch.


By the same token, if you can't access a car, how free are you?
???

Most people's car time is spent waiting in their kid's pick up lines or stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for their work commute. Most people could not work without a car. Where is this freedom cars are giving the average person?
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

ChrisV

Just because some of it doesn't equate to "freedom" means ALL of it doesn't equate to freedom, Sporty? Cars give the "freedom" to go when you want, on YOUR schedule, even if that schedule is dictated by where you have to be. It means not relying on someone ELSE to get you where you want to be when you need to be there like on a bus that goes on a limited route. The freedom is that at any point in their travels they can change their mind and go somewhere else right then and there. Whether they do or not does not change that basic concept.

I may be using the car to go to and from work and have set times to do that, but I have the freedom of choosing my route and my departure time, and I can choose to leave a bit early or late, take another route and make stops at otherwise inconvenient places to pick up groceries or supplies. Or just take off and drive for a bit. Just because I get stuck in traffic for a bit doesn't negate the freedom of choice the personal car gives me to run errands on MY schedule or just drive around.
Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection...

giant_mtb

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 07:47:18 AM
???

Most people's car time is spent waiting in their kid's pick up lines or stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for their work commute. Most people could not work without a car. Where is this freedom cars are giving the average person?

Holy shit. :facepalm:

Laconian

#75
I do wonder if people felt more freedom before cars spaghettified cities along roads. Traffic definitely makes me feel claustrophobic in this region, there are ever-growing swaths of the workday in which I write off the prospect of mobility entirely. Cities along the interstate are space out around the assumption that people can travel at 60mph. If traffic moves at less than a third of that, then the effective distance between cities is tripled.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

12,000 RPM

Quote from: ChrisV on December 01, 2017, 08:00:06 AM
Just because some of it doesn't equate to "freedom" means ALL of it doesn't equate to freedom, Sporty? Cars give the "freedom" to go when you want, on YOUR schedule, even if that schedule is dictated by where you have to be. It means not relying on someone ELSE to get you where you want to be when you need to be there like on a bus that goes on a limited route. The freedom is that at any point in their travels they can change their mind and go somewhere else right then and there. Whether they do or not does not change that basic concept.
You can get off a bus any time you want too.

Quote from: ChrisV on December 01, 2017, 08:00:06 AMI may be using the car to go to and from work and have set times to do that, but I have the freedom of choosing my route and my departure time, and I can choose to leave a bit early or late, take another route and make stops at otherwise inconvenient places to pick up groceries or supplies. Or just take off and drive for a bit. Just because I get stuck in traffic for a bit doesn't negate the freedom of choice the personal car gives me to run errands on MY schedule or just drive around.
You can do much of this with public transportation, or walking, or biking, or hand gliding as well. Sure, public transportation fixes you into its schedules, but that's not much different than having to deal with traffic somewhere like Atlanta, DC, NYC, LA etc., which makes getting around by car damn near impossible certain times of day.

And I'm not even suggesting public transportation to be the fix (you brought it up, not me).... but this notion that cars = freedom in today's world is silly.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

CaminoRacer

If a car doesn't give you freedom, it's because you live in the wrong place (i.e. a miserable place)
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

12,000 RPM

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 01, 2017, 12:56:37 PM
If a car doesn't give you freedom, it's because you live in the wrong place (i.e. a miserable place)
That's BS. Just owning and having to be financially and physically responsible for a car is the opposite of freedom, unless you enjoy car ownership (which most people do not). That has nothing to do with where you are.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

CaminoRacer

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 01:04:57 PM
That's BS. Just owning and having to be financially and physically responsible for a car is the opposite of freedom, unless you enjoy car ownership (which most people do not). That has nothing to do with where you are.

It's a tool that allows you to do much, much more than you would be otherwise capable. Other factors may put a limitation on your freedom - work schedule, traffic, etc. But that's not the car limiting your freedom - that's the other factors limiting your freedom.

When I flew back to SLC after Thanksgiving, I had to take the train home. I had to rush off the plane to catch a lightrail that took me to the train station, then wait 15 minutes outside, then catch the train home and sit next to strangers. I didn't have the freedom to stop at In-N-Out for dinner on the way home. I didn't have the freedom to be on my own schedule. I didn't have the freedom to choose which bathroom to use - I either use the one on the train or not, instead of picking a nice gas station, fast food joint, fancy department store, etc. I was constrained. Cars are the opposite of constrained. You're in control and you choose when & where you go. If I got to my freeway exit & decided "nah, I'm not gonna home right now. I'm gonna drive to Vegas!", a car allows me to do that. The train doesn't. My shoes don't. My bicycle doesn't.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Soup DeVille

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 01:04:57 PM
That's BS. Just owning and having to be financially and physically responsible for a car is the opposite of freedom, unless you enjoy car ownership (which most people do not). That has nothing to do with where you are.

Ask him about his local bus service.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

ChrisV

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 12:33:28 PM
You can get off a bus any time you want too.
You can do much of this with public transportation, or walking, or biking, or hand gliding as well. Sure, public transportation fixes you into its schedules, but that's not much different than having to deal with traffic somewhere like Atlanta, DC, NYC, LA etc., which makes getting around by car damn near impossible certain times of day.

And I'm not even suggesting public transportation to be the fix (you brought it up, not me).... but this notion that cars = freedom in today's world is silly.

I didn't realize that owning a car only happens in busy urban environments and that people only made payments on cars to day. Cars still mean freedom of schedule for MANY people today. I have the freedom to leave any time I want and drive anywhere I want on MY schedule, not some limited bus route (which may not even exist in many places around the country) or wait until a cab shows up.

Sorry your world is so small, Sporty.
Like a fine Detroit wine, this vehicle has aged to budgetary perfection...

Laconian

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 01, 2017, 12:56:37 PM
If a car doesn't give you freedom, it's because you live in the wrong place (i.e. a miserable place)

I live in a great place. It's just that everybody else wants in.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

giant_mtb

This is some of the most unthusiast bullshit I've ever seen leave sporty's fingertips.  If a car doesn't give you freedom, then why do you have more than one?

12,000 RPM

Quote from: giant_mtb on December 01, 2017, 04:08:11 PM
This is some of the most unthusiast bullshit I've ever seen leave sporty's fingertips.  If a car doesn't give you freedom, then why do you have more than one?
Too busy to sell. Gonna pay off the note this weekend and put it up... it's ready to go.

One can be an enthusiast and acknowledge the burdens cars place on NON-enthusiasts. I enjoy owning a car and getting to drive, but I don't think most people do :huh: That the current alternatives suck doesn't change that :huh:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Laconian

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Too busy to sell. Gonna pay off the note this weekend and put it up... it's ready to go.

One can be an enthusiast and acknowledge the burdens cars place on NON-enthusiasts. I enjoy owning a car and getting to drive, but I don't think most people do :huh: That the current alternatives suck doesn't change that :huh:

It makes sense to me. I love Linux but it would be tragic if everybody was forced to be a commandline jockey in order to do anything.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

MX793

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 07:47:18 AM
???

Most people's car time is spent waiting in their kid's pick up lines or stuck in bumper to bumper traffic for their work commute. Most people could not work without a car. Where is this freedom cars are giving the average person?

In the absence of a car, you're stuck living within either close proximity to a public transit line or your workplace.  Those not living in megapolises, there aren't exactly a lot of employment prospects within walking distance.  Or particularly good public transit.  It also likely means living in a cramped apartment, in a crowded place, with a high COL.  Or, you can move outside of city limits, have a decent sized home with a yard (maybe a pool) at a more affordable cost and commute.  Is that not a form of freedom?  Freedom to enjoy a lifestyle that is not urban?
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

giant_mtb

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Too busy to sell. Gonna pay off the note this weekend and put it up... it's ready to go.

One can be an enthusiast and acknowledge the burdens cars place on NON-enthusiasts. I enjoy owning a car and getting to drive, but I don't think most people do :huh: That the current alternatives suck doesn't change that :huh:

Start walking everywhere you go and get back to me about the freedom a car gives you.  Jesus.

FoMoJo

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 01, 2017, 05:20:11 PM
Too busy to sell. Gonna pay off the note this weekend and put it up... it's ready to go.

One can be an enthusiast and acknowledge the burdens cars place on NON-enthusiasts. I enjoy owning a car and getting to drive, but I don't think most people do :huh: That the current alternatives suck doesn't change that :huh:
Which one are you selling?
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

12,000 RPM

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 01, 2017, 06:39:15 PM
Which one are you selling?
Definitely the Civic; possibly both, though I'm shying away from selling the G now that I've got the gas mileage situation under control.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs