A practical CUV for her *** Thread update, Rotor’s worst nightmare realized ***

[r0tor]

But you enjoy driving spiritedly? Autocross is a much safer environment, cheaper, and lends itself to more friendships as you're doing corner work. You're not going to wad the M3 up in an autocross

The only thing you need is a helmet and a day. I'm sure the family would have fun taking turns as passengers.

Your not going to wad up an M3 on the track either.  I did M School with some newbs in the rain at speeds up to 115mph and nobody managed to even spin with M mode dsc enabled

[Lebowski]

But you enjoy driving spiritedly? Autocross is a much safer environment, cheaper, and lends itself to more friendships as you're doing corner work. You're not going to wad the M3 up in an autocross

The only thing you need is a helmet and a day. I'm sure the family would have fun taking turns as passengers. You joined an auto message board. Seems like there'd be more than enough interest in performance driving. You do you though

Like I said, would rather do a driving school or something. Have lots of other things competing for my weekends though.

[r0tor]

No.

Ok, since I'm on vacation...

Area behind Jeep Grand Cherokee rear seat - 42"Lx 40"W

Area inside Focus trunk - 40"L x 42" wide and before the wheel wells it's actual 48 wide.

Again, you need to stack shit to the roof in an SUV to realize the cargo capacity advantage.  Great to have in 1 vehicle, completely no reason for 2.

[Rich]

Your not going to wad up an M3 on the track either.  I did M School with some newbs in the rain at speeds up to 115mph and nobody managed to even spin with M mode dsc enabled

Eh, if you oversteer into the grass and happen to catch the rear tire on a piece of the landscape it can chuck it pretty wildly.  Also, some tracks have walls right at the track edge in the turns (I'm looking at you watkins glen), or if there's a part failure you're only going 60-80 vs 120-150.  My instructor at my first track day had brake failure and wadded up the rear of his Corvette.

[r0tor]

Eh, if you oversteer into the grass and happen to catch the rear tire on a piece of the landscape it can chuck it pretty wildly.  Also, some tracks have walls right at the track edge in the turns (I'm looking at you watkins glen), or if there's a part failure you're only going 60-80 vs 120-150.  My instructor at my first track day had brake failure and wadded up the rear of his Corvette.

He would have wadded up his car on the street with brake failure...

[Lebowski]

Ok, since I'm on vacation...

Area behind Jeep Grand Cherokee rear seat - 42"Lx 40"W

Area inside Focus trunk - 40"L x 42" wide and before the wheel wells it's actual 48 wide.

Again, you need to stack shit to the roof in an SUV to realize the cargo capacity advantage.  Great to have in 1 vehicle, completely no reason for 2.

A hatch, wagon, or SUV is always going to have more usable space than comparable sedan. The height is useful for all kinds of things (like dogs), as is the ability to fold seats down for one continuous space (yeah lots of sedans seats fold too incl m3 but not nearly as useable as in a hatch wagon or SUV). JGC is also about worst in class for usable cargo space, fwiw.  The 4Runner has WAY more space than the M3, period. CRV does too, and has way more than the X1 etc etc. What you're advocating is literally worst of all worlds, least practical combination and $40k more expensive to boot while leaving us without a single vehicle that can fit all 4 of us plus the dogs .  Not remotely interested in doing that.


Your "there's no reason to have it" argument is entirely circular as there's also "no reason to have" a performance car if you don't get to use it. So you're advocating a $70k car with high ownership costs that I have "no reason to have" over a $30k car with low running costs that you also claim I have "no reason to have" (and fwiw as you know "because she prefers an SUV" is a reason).  If I have no reason to have either, I'll take the cheap one.

[12,000 RPM]

The thing is, while SUVs have great cargo capacities on paper, it's only when you stack shit to the roof when you have that advantage over a sedan.

That's hardly it. The larger opening enables putting bigger items in. Seats fold (not always a given in a sedan- they don't in the G). Power liftgate is crazy convenient etc. I'm sure there are times when they both have the cars and Lebowski needs to pick up big items. What then?

So things like dogs and odd shaped items, SUVs are great and I agree it's good to have in a family.  But for routine stuff, baby strollers, even a kids bike - my wife's focus probably has as much or more cargo space then my Jeep. More up to a midsized sedan and to match the trunk space (length x width) in a CUV it would take one hell of a large CUV.

It's not just about trunk space. Dealing with car seats is going to be easier with the CUV's higher ride height. CUV will have a smaller footprint for its interior size which will make it easier to park (CR-V is a foot shorter than the Accord). As CUVs continue to take over the world I'm sure its resale will be better too.

In my mind, replace the 4 Runner with something newer with equal space and keep the M.  A extremely low mileage M will retain its value and the trunk space is fine for family duties... and take it on some nice trips to enjoy it with the family. 

Hell, my now  11yr old begs to take rides and go places in my RX8 over out other vehicles. He loves riding in a "race car".  Raise your 9 year old to be an enthusiast!

Like Lebowski said in his opening post they take the dogs out. Even without the dogs, packing all the luggage + baby stuff for a weekend trip is unlikely. F30 back seat is pretty good for its class but it's still tight for a long trip. And again dude does zero enthusiastic driving so he gets nothing out of the M3 he couldn't get out of the 4Runner.

As for getting his kid into cars, I feel like a much better route would be to get the kid into karting... or sim racing

I guess my question for you is why are you so adamant on Lebowski keeping a car that doesn't fit his needs and is crazy expensive to hold on to. "Your kid will think its cool" isn't really compelling; I'd hope his kids would have more to admire him for than his car Also lol @ only citing 2 of the 3 dimensions of cargo space I'm so glad you came back to the forum, what would discussions like this be without your input

[12,000 RPM]

He would have wadded up his car on the street with brake failure...

His brakes wouldn't have failed in the first place, as I imagine he doesn't do regular hard stops from 120-150 on public roads.................................................

[r0tor]

I love how I get a lecture on what a family needs cargo wise from a person who doesn't even have a family.

He will have a family of 4.  The rear seats will not be folded down.  The dimensions of a Crv is 37" depth to the rear seats and 40" wide.  It's smaller the our focus and smaller then my JGC when only loaded to the height of the rear seat.  The Crv has great stats because it has a taller roofline.

Again, 1 SUV is great for dogs and the occasional home depot run.  It's not going to out do an average sedan under normal conditions.

[Lebowski]

Honestly can't tell if Rotor's being serious or if he's just stirring the pot in response to my posts in this 3-cars thread that he should "figure out how to do it with 2". If he's being serious, dude isn't making any sense.

"Why buy a $30k car you don't need when you can keep a $70k car you don't need, sell the $15k car you do need, and replace it with a $40k you don't need?"  If the end goal is maximum cost for minimal utility, Rotor's cracked the code.

[r0tor]

Are you seriously trying to act like you have no money?  You already bought an M3 and more house then you ever need.  Enjoy your shit.

Replace 4 Runner with large CUV/SUV, enjoy M3 on family trips, and be a dad who isn't lame.

[Lebowski]

Are you seriously trying to act like you have no money?  You already bought an M3 and more house then you ever need.  Enjoy your shit.

Replace 4 Runner with large CUV/SUV, enjoy M3 on family trips, and be a dad who isn't lame.

You get money by saving money, and having money does not mean it has to be spent.  I spend money on things that bring me value commensurate with the cost, after 3 years of ownership I've concluded the M3 does not meet that criteria.  As I said in original posts, I've given quite a bit of thought to this stuff and concluded through firsthand experience that beyond a certain point, nicer stuff does not bring increased utility.  That's a conclusion most never fully reach, just look how many luxury cars are on the road.  I don't expect you to understand this - most people don't.


M3 has room for family weekends trips, which are usually to the beach or something (read: no fun driving opportunities, and not ideal conditions for a nice car). We take the 4runner on such trips, unless we drive separately and take both cars. 

Only real trips that have much fun driving opportunities are up to say the Carolinas. We go for more than a a few days, bring the dogs, and therefore take the 4Runner (may have to rent a minivan going forward w/ the baby, we'll see).  The solo exception was the picking it up, we flew up and drove it back.

Lameness is not determined by car choice. 

[12,000 RPM]

"Hey kid, I'm gonna sacrifice your comfort, as well as our family's practicality and financial future in the hopes that you will equate this car that I don't really want with being a cool and good dad"



Part of a satisfying car ownership is knowing when to let go.

[r0tor]

You get money by saving money, and having money does not mean it has to be spent.  I spend money on things that bring me value commensurate with the cost, after 3 years of ownership I've concluded the M3 does not meet that criteria.  As I said in original posts, I've given quite a bit of thought to this stuff and concluded through firsthand experience that beyond a certain point, nicer stuff does not bring increased utility.  That's a conclusion most never fully reach, just look how many luxury cars are on the road.  I don't expect you to understand this - most people don't.


M3 has room for family weekends trips, which are usually to the beach or something (read: no fun driving opportunities, and not ideal conditions for a nice car). We take the 4runner on such trips, unless we drive separately and take both cars. 

Only real trips that have much fun driving opportunities are up to say the Carolinas. We go for more than a a few days, bring the dogs, and therefore take the 4Runner (may have to rent a minivan going forward w/ the baby, we'll see).  The solo exception was the picking it up, we flew up and drove it back.

Lameness is not determined by car choice. 

and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it

[12,000 RPM]

and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it

Which is why they will take the 4Runner on family trips. The calculus is very simple:

Family trips: 4Runner > CR-V > M3

Lebowski's commute: 4Runner > CR-V > M3

Value for Lebowski's situation: 4Runner ~ CR-V >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> M3

With the cost savings LEbowski could probably take his kids karting every week and do a Porsche or BMW driving event every month

[Lebowski]

and your admitting a Crv will be useless on a basic family trip... It's fairly obvious that size CUV has no room with the rear seats up, but keep trying to justify it

Not at all, pretty much any trip w/o all 4 of us plus the dogs the CRV would serve just fine. Or the 4Runner. Or she leaves a day before me as sometimes happen s and we take both. 2 practical cars in the household = versatility.

Also w/ this obsession with rear seats up - rear seats fold 60/40. Can have one child and the 60 side folded for dogs. Can have 2 children and 40 side folded with dogs (tight but works in a pinch). Versatility. These arbitrary rules about seat folding and "cargo can't be higher than the seat line" wtf.  Talk about a lame dad: "son, do not place your bag in the rear cargo area such that any part protrudes above the top of the seat, headrests excluded". 


Maybe go back and re-read the first page of the thread.


If you think the M3 is a must own, I'll sell it to you for KBB. I'll even deliver it to your door.

[giant_mtb]

You can't put dogs in the trunk of a car. 

[Lebowski]

You can't put dogs in the trunk of a car. 

Ha, I had Xindra get in the front seat of the C6 for 2 years, before I got the 4Runner.

Dogs would fit in back of M3 w/ seats folded, though I've never had them in it.  Dog hair gets everywhere. Slobber on the windows and door sills.  Really don't think I'll miss having a nice car.

[Morris Minor]

I'm pretty much looking at the same possibilities as Lebowski. I need something with space (but I also want AWD or 4WD). I'm looking at the Outback (got Kevin's input on that), the CR-V, and the Ford Edge.
CX-5 is appealing but too small (they need a CX-7). The Edge is nice and there's a Ford dealer only 35 minutes from here - vs an hour for the Subaru or Honda.

For me it keeps coming back to the CRV or the Edge. Guessing the Honda would have a better retained value than the Ford.

[giant_mtb]

Yeah, I meant that in regards to the whole sedan vs CUV cargo space thing. 

You won't miss having a nice car.  Having/keeping the A4 as perfect as I did became a real pain once the honeymoon was over, especially since detailing is my job.  Spend all your time working on other people's shit and you really don't feel like doing your own. Enter, Tacoma.

[MrH]

The CX-9 isn't all that much bigger than what you're looking at.  Give that a shot Morris.

[Cookie Monster]

Lol a wagon/hatch/SUV is infinitely more practical than a sedan. Why is this even an argument?

[Lebowski]

Having/keeping the A4 as perfect as I did became a real pain once the honeymoon was over

Yeah, that's how I feel. That's what I like about the 4Runner - go to the beach and get sand all over it, sit in it with wet bathing suits, even wet/dirty dogs in it whatever.  Come home and run the thing through the commercial car wash for like 30 bucks and don't sweat it. 

[r0tor]

"Hey kid, I'm gonna sacrifice your comfort, as well as our family's practicality and financial future in the hopes that you will equate this car that I don't really want with being a cool and good dad"



Part of a satisfying car ownership is knowing when to let go.

If the price of his M3 effects his kids wellbeing, he better stop the wealth pissing match with Cougs

[MrH]

Yeah, that's how I feel. That's what I like about the 4Runner - go to the beach and get sand all over it, sit in it with wet bathing suits, even wet/dirty dogs in it whatever.  Come home and run the thing through the commercial car wash for like 30 bucks and don't sweat it. 

Yep.  This is why 4Runners are the ideal vehicle   Perfect for beating the shit out of for 150k-200k miles, then selling for $10k.

[r0tor]

Not at all, pretty much any trip w/o all 4 of us plus the dogs the CRV would serve just fine. Or the 4Runner. Or she leaves a day before me as sometimes happen s and we take both. 2 practical cars in the household = versatility.

Also w/ this obsession with rear seats up - rear seats fold 60/40. Can have one child and the 60 side folded for dogs. Can have 2 children and 40 side folded with dogs (tight but works in a pinch). Versatility. These arbitrary rules about seat folding and "cargo can't be higher than the seat line" wtf.  Talk about a lame dad: "son, do not place your bag in the rear cargo area such that any part protrudes above the top of the seat, headrests excluded". 


Maybe go back and re-read the first page of the thread.


If you think the M3 is a must own, I'll sell it to you for KBB. I'll even deliver it to your door.

Your going to stuff a child seat and a preteen in the 60 side of a bench seat and add 2 dogs in a Crv? Hope the kids and dogs are miniature.

As per loading things above the rear seat height, are you really going to stack things above your kids head behind them so they get hit in the head during a panic stop?  Hell no. A Crv probably has about 12-15 cubic feet of space behind the rear seat up to the seat height. Your M3 is more practical for a trip.

[MrH]

  This might the strangest, most factually incorrect hill to die on that the Spin has ever seen.  This is even more bizarre than the carport discussion.

[CaminoRacer]

You should still do an autox event before selling the M3.

[Lebowski]

If the price of his M3 effects his kids wellbeing, he better stop the wealth pissing match with

You're still not getting it. 

[r0tor]

You're still not getting it. 

I have a neighbor with a $3million house and drives a late 90s Accord... I get it and i really don't care for it