Buick going green?

[Laconian]

Thank god GM is going to use Buick as the brand for peddling spiffed up EVs. Cadillac's product planners lost the plot entirely when they tried turning the Volt into a halo car. The ELR is a worse car in practically every regard except looks.

Buick is a much more grounded brand for tarting up the Bolt et al with better upholstery, sound deadening, etc. without ruining the car with slashes, swoops, mailslot windshields and $90,000 price tags.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2017/11/buick-poised-become-gms-greenest-brand/#more-1599010

[Laconian]

TBH a Buick Bolt would be great. The car could do very well with about $2-3,000 in upholstery and dash upgrades.

[mzziaz]

TBH a Buick Bolt would be great. The car could do very well with about $2-3,000 in upholstery and dash upgrades.

I think that pretty much is the plan.

[veeman]

Everything EV going forward for GM is China oriented.  American market is not going anywhere for EV outside of Tesla.  Especially with the phasing out of the tax incentive in the U.S., EVs don't make a lot of economic sense in the U.S. which the article also corroborates. 

There's not going to be any Buick Bolts sold in the U.S. anytime soon which the article basically concedes.  Doesn't make any sense to sell them here.  Bolts are sitting on dealer lots because it's cheaper to get a new car costing ten to fifteen thousand dollars less with current gas prices or go hybrid and not worry about "planning" any long distance trip.  People who want new cutting edge technology are opting for Teslas here. 

[mzziaz]

I always found it weird that GM introduced the Bolt (and the Volt) as a Chevy first. For niche cars like that I would have thought that it made more sense to introduce the platforms in a more upscale brand first with a higher price point, and then let it trickle down to chevy.

[2o6]

I always found it weird that GM introduced the Bolt (and the Volt) as a Chevy first. For niche cars like that I would have thought that it made more sense to introduce the platforms in a more upscale brand first with a higher price point, and then let it trickle down to chevy.

IDK it worked with Toyota

[12,000 RPM]

A Cadillac Tesla fighter would have worked 100x better than the Alpha cars (yes I'm going there; I have time today).

It would not even need "Ludicrous Speed" or any of that nonsense. Utilize the same range extender setup of the Volt with a more powerful engine and bigger battery. Make it look gooooooooooooooooood. Give it a real name (Seville works). Emphasize that it can take gas or be charged (for years I thought the Volt was electric only). Good to go

It's a shame Oldsmobile is gone as that was usually GM's tech testing ground. I don't know that Buick is the place for this. There's no enthusiasm around the brand despite GM's best efforts. Go big or go home and do it in a Caddy.

[SJ_GTI]

I think GM's problem is they still see EV's as a pure efficiency play. Tesla at least tries to make interesting cars that are also EV's. Don't get me wrong the Bolt seems like ti would make a very good daily driver...but if wouldn't fit as a Cadillac. If they could adapt the platform to a fairly standard three box sedan (or 2 box SUV) it could be interesting even if it lost some efficiency.

[12,000 RPM]

Oh yea, a Cadillac Bolt is DOA. But EVs give them a lot of flexibility with design (which makes the ELR that much more of a fail)

[Laconian]

It would not even need "Ludicrous Speed" or any of that nonsense. Utilize the same range extender setup of the Volt with a more powerful engine and bigger battery. Make it look gooooooooooooooooood. Give it a real name (Seville works). Emphasize that it can take gas or be charged (for years I thought the Volt was electric only). Good to go

Except for having a "name", you just described the ELR and it was a massive flop.

[veeman]

A Cadillac Tesla fighter would have worked 100x better than the Alpha cars (yes I'm going there; I have time today).

It would not even need "Ludicrous Speed" or any of that nonsense. Utilize the same range extender setup of the Volt with a more powerful engine and bigger battery. Make it look gooooooooooooooooood. Give it a real name (Seville works). Emphasize that it can take gas or be charged (for years I thought the Volt was electric only). Good to go

It's a shame Oldsmobile is gone as that was usually GM's tech testing ground. I don't know that Buick is the place for this. There's no enthusiasm around the brand despite GM's best efforts. Go big or go home and do it in a Caddy.

Buick has a pretty good reputation and marketshare in China. 

[Laconian]

Buick has a pretty good reputation and marketshare in China. 

That's true. China is pushing EVs really hard these days.

I have an irrational fear that they'll have such robust domestic demand that will supercharge their EV R&D, leading them to eventual export dominance.

[2o6]

Except for having a "name", you just described the ELR and it was a massive flop.

the ELR was too slow, too small, and far too expensive.


I think a Volt-style XTS would be the ticket.

[MrH]

All the ELR hate

[Laconian]

All the ELR hate

I BLAME YOU

[CaminoRacer]

I BLAME YOU

The car was fantastic except for the disgusting dashboard material

[GoCougs]

I think GM's problem is they still see EV's as a pure efficiency play. Tesla at least tries to make interesting cars that are also EV's. Don't get me wrong the Bolt seems like ti would make a very good daily driver...but if wouldn't fit as a Cadillac. If they could adapt the platform to a fairly standard three box sedan (or 2 box SUV) it could be interesting even if it lost some efficiency.

GM's making the better logical call (as did Toyota with the Prius (i.e., making it a Toyota not a Lexus)). Far more people will be more interested in going for efficiency (which includes financial). Those who actually care about the environment don't spend $70k+ to showboat it. It took some time but seems like the Bolt is gaining steam.

[giant_mtb]

It's a shame Oldsmobile is gone as that was usually GM's tech testing ground. I don't know that Buick is the place for this. There's no enthusiasm around the brand despite GM's best efforts. Go big or go home and do it in a Caddy.

And Cadillac sales were down about 22% from July 2016 to July 2017.  Meanwhile, Buick sold about 60,000 more vehicles than Cadillac last year...with two more months of this year to go, Buick has outsold Caddy's last year overall number.  Buick sales have grown about 33% since 2010, Cadillac has grown about 14%.

[12,000 RPM]

Well they are big in China. But they're in the hole here

[giant_mtb]

Well they are big in China. But they're in the hole here

The numbers I referenced are US-only sales numbers...

http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/buick/buick-sales-numbers/
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadillac/cadillac-sales-numbers/

[Tave]

GM's making the better logical call (as did Toyota with the Prius (i.e., making it a Toyota not a Lexus)). Far more people will be more interested in going for efficiency (which includes financial). Those who actually care about the environment don't spend $70k+ to showboat it. It took some time but seems like the Bolt is gaining steam.

The Prius was/is priced along with subcompacts. Easier to stomach the cartoon looks, ugly interior, and rotten drive traits when you're paying Civic prices. At 35-40K a Chevy sedan needs to have a lot more going for it. I'm fine with it being a Chevy, but they definitely should have given it some design curb appeal.

[GoCougs]

The Prius was/is priced along with subcompacts. Easier to stomach the cartoon looks, ugly interior, and rotten drive traits when you're paying Civic prices. At 35-40K a Chevy sedan needs to have a lot more going for it. I'm fine with it being a Chevy, but they definitely should have given it some design curb appeal.

Prius was/is priced well above subcompacts (and the Civic is not a subcompact) - it's priced equivalent to the Camry. Though the Bolt is much more expensive (and it should be, it's the vastly more advanced product), it's about as cheap as GM could go.

[ifcar]

Except for having a "name", you just described the ELR and it was a massive flop.

The ELR wasn't more powerful or more advanced — it was just an economy car with a really nice wrapper.

[2o6]

The Prius was/is priced along with subcompacts. Easier to stomach the cartoon looks, ugly interior, and rotten drive traits when you're paying Civic prices. At 35-40K a Chevy sedan needs to have a lot more going for it. I'm fine with it being a Chevy, but they definitely should have given it some design curb appeal.

Prius is priced more like a Camry, not a Yaris.

[Submariner]

The ELR wasn't more powerful or more advanced — it was just an economy car with a really nice wrapper.

Cimmeron, By Cadillac...

[Morris Minor]

Never understood why Toyota fucked up the looks of the Prius. i'm guessing used 2014s fetch higher prices than the grotesque 2015s.

[Tave]

Prius was/is priced well above subcompacts (and the Civic is not a subcompact) - it's priced equivalent to the Camry. Though the Bolt is much more expensive (and it should be, it's the vastly more advanced product), it's about as cheap as GM could go.

Prius is priced more like a Camry, not a Yaris.

The Prius slots between the Corolla and Camry, and with the addition of the Prius C is basically identical to the Corolla as far as base-level trims.

WRT my statement, you're really missing the forest for the trees if the $3000 difference in price b/w the Yaris and Corolla is more significant to you than the $10,000-$15,000 difference between the Prius and Volt/Bolt.  The point stands—what worked for Toyota at a much lower price point will not necessarily work for Chevy at a relatively high price point. If you think EV buyers spending 40K+ all want cars that look like awkward cartoon spaceships, more power to you, but I think the market has shown otherwise.

Just my hunch but I sincerely doubt cost is the main driver of the Prius design. They did it to make it "different" and "futuristic."

[mzziaz]

With an EV you are paying more up front to save on running costs later.

I'm saving 3-5%/y of the purchase price of the car in lower fuel and estimated lower repair costs. Granted, stateside those numbers would be lower, but I'm sure there are still significant savings to be had over the lifetime of the vehicle.

[Tave]

With an EV you are paying more up front to save on running costs later.

I'm saving 3-5%/y of the purchase price of the car in lower fuel and estimated lower repair costs. Granted, stateside those numbers would be lower, but I'm sure there are still significant savings to be had over the lifetime of the vehicle.

I'm talking about design, design; not the general design and cost traits of EVs themselves.

I.e., it doesn't cost extra for a design department to make EVs look like a normal car and not a wart-ridden Jetson mobile abortion.

[mzziaz]

Tesla, Golf EV, Bolt, Focus EV, Soul EV and the Ionic EV are all pretty normal looking.