:confused:
https://www.kbb.com/car-news/thieves-stealing-cars-through-headlight-hack/
Take off trim, plug device into headlight wires to hack the car to unlock and start and drive off...
Oh crap! That's clever. I assumed that the soft CAN bus underbelly was only accessible from inside the car, but apparently that's not the case...
LOL. Sorry about your CAN BUS.
Quote from: Laconian on April 16, 2023, 06:55:27 PM
Oh crap! That's clever. I assumed that the soft CAN bus underbelly was only accessible from inside the car, but apparently that's not the case...
I'm sure this will get patched pretty quickly. Not allow certain signals from certain paths. But still!!!!
Maybe..? It depends on how many cars have the vulnerability. Supporting products that are near or past their "end of life" is pretty costly and companies aren't going to do it longer than they absolutely have to.
My El Camino is seeming more and more safe. Carb + manual transmission, no one knows how to hack that anymore :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 16, 2023, 08:28:05 PM
My El Camino is seeming more and more safe. Carb + manual transmission, no one knows how to hack that anymore :lol:
Basically impossible to steal in 2023
It goes beyond the headlights... You know those front collision radar sensors on most cars these days? Can bus connected and sitting right there in the open. Also while dumbutts are stealing your catalytic converter, they could instead just tap into the can bus running to the transmission, AWD system, or possibly an active differential.
Can bus has no security on it. You can get an Arduino and a $5 can bus transmitter and see and spoof whatever traffic you want on the network. The only way to stop it is with a physical switched relays which automakers have abandoned... like a clutch pedal
Quote from: r0tor on April 17, 2023, 05:47:31 AM
It goes beyond the headlights... You know those front collision radar sensors on most cars these days? Can bus connected and sitting right there in the open. Also while dumbutts are stealing your catalytic converter, they could instead just tap into the can bus running to the transmission, AWD system, or possibly an active differential.
Can bus has no security on it. You can get an Arduino and a $5 can bus transmitter and see and spoof whatever traffic you want on the network. The only way to stop it is with a physical switched relays which automakers have abandoned... like a clutch pedal
Yep. Most relays are now solid state and built into circuit boards. Can't fix it. Can steal it.
I got a knock off "the club" device from Amazon that hooks onto my steering wheel. Use it all the time when parking in a public area or even my driveway. It's defeatable if a thief has the right tools to cut the steering wheel or cut through the metal device itself or if you tow the car but not many thieves I think are prepared for that or want to go through that effort for a base model Hyundai econo hatch.
I have no theft prevention device for the catalytic converter however.
Wonder how easy (or not easy) it would be to wire up some sort of battery kill switch on a newer car.
Although I guess that would be sort of annoying as it would make stuff like remote locks and remote starting not work. lol
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 17, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Wonder how easy (or not easy) it would be to wire up some sort of battery kill switch on a newer car.
Although I guess that would be sort of annoying as it would make stuff like remote locks and remote starting not work. lol
Yeah I think it would be a pain with all the electronics that are normally always-on. At least settings and radio stations tend to be stored in memory instead of resetting every time
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 17, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Wonder how easy (or not easy) it would be to wire up some sort of battery kill switch on a newer car.
Although I guess that would be sort of annoying as it would make stuff like remote locks and remote starting not work. lol
I used to install remote kill switches and GPS trackers for a used car dealer. It's not hard, but you need a cell subscription. I'm sure the same thing could be done with a key fob.
What it is is a physical relay that interrupts part of the starter circuit, rather than a battery kill switch.
I can't imagine ever living in a place where I felt the need to put The Club on my car in my own driveway :confused:
What happens when your car is stolen?
You CAN BUS then
🤣
Quote from: MrH on April 17, 2023, 10:58:04 AM
I can't imagine ever living in a place where I felt the need to put The Club on my car in my own driveway :confused:
I live in a nice well off rural small town in lower Connecticut. 2 acre zoning per house. My wife is on the town women's Facebook group. When we first moved here 10 years ago I'd keep the house's outdoor lights off at night because of light pollution (I like the concept of dark starry nights). Then about 5 years ago, we heard lots of reports of cars stolen from driveways at night. Both professional thieves and amateurs. They would scope out a local street, make note of which cars were parked where, and then a few days later steal a car at night. Because it's 2 acre zoning and no street lights on local roads, stealing a car from a driveway without anyone noticing isn't that hard to do.
So for the last 5 years, I say f_ck you to the dark starry nights and keep my external house lights and driveway column lights on all night long. When I have extended family spend the night, I have them park their cars in the garage and I pull my own cars out onto the driveway in front of the garage where there is a light shining on them.
Quote from: veeman on April 17, 2023, 11:21:23 AM
I live in a nice well off rural small town in lower Connecticut. 2 acre zoning per house. My wife is on the town women's Facebook group. When we first moved here 10 years ago I'd keep the house's outdoor lights off at night because of light pollution (I like the concept of dark starry nights). Then about 5 years ago, we heard lots of reports of cars stolen from driveways at night. Both professional thieves and amateurs. They would scope out a local street, make note of which cars were parked where, and then a few days later steal a car at night. Because it's 2 acre zoning and no street lights on local roads, stealing a car from a driveway without anyone noticing isn't that hard to do.
So for the last 5 years, I say f_ck you to the dark starry nights and keep my external house lights and driveway column lights on all night long. When I have extended family spend the night, I have them park their cars in the garage and I pull my own cars out onto the driveway in front of the garage where there is a light shining on them.
I live in a small town in eastern Connneeeccttticut. I'm not very worried about violent crime or theft, but the traffic on this state road is full of criminal speeders with zero enforcement. All these people probably work in a big city, and continue to drive like big city assholes al the way back to their brand new cookie cutter homes in this previously quiet town. I leave my front porch light on 24/7, and I'm considering replacing it with annoying as fuck flood lights that shine directly into traffic.
Quote from: veeman on April 17, 2023, 11:21:23 AM
I live in a nice well off rural small town in lower Connecticut. 2 acre zoning per house. My wife is on the town women's Facebook group. When we first moved here 10 years ago I'd keep the house's outdoor lights off at night because of light pollution (I like the concept of dark starry nights). Then about 5 years ago, we heard lots of reports of cars stolen from driveways at night. Both professional thieves and amateurs. They would scope out a local street, make note of which cars were parked where, and then a few days later steal a car at night. Because it's 2 acre zoning and no street lights on local roads, stealing a car from a driveway without anyone noticing isn't that hard to do.
So for the last 5 years, I say f_ck you to the dark starry nights and keep my external house lights and driveway column lights on all night long. When I have extended family spend the night, I have them park their cars in the garage and I pull my own cars out onto the driveway in front of the garage where there is a light shining on them.
Ah, that's sad. If your lot is that big, I would strongly consider a remote operated gate maybe? Guess it depends on your property layout.
How about a blinking blue light?
Hire Nick and TUNDRA to guard the neighborhood . TUNDRA is sure to scare off any thieves
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 17, 2023, 01:09:45 PM
Hire Nick and TUNDRA to guard the neighborhood . TUNDRA is sure to scare off any thieves
It currently has a giant bag of dog poop in the bed. Come at me, fuckers.
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 17, 2023, 10:34:17 AM
Wonder how easy (or not easy) it would be to wire up some sort of battery kill switch on a newer car.
Although I guess that would be sort of annoying as it would make stuff like remote locks and remote starting not work. lol
Clutch pedal
Quote from: r0tor on April 17, 2023, 01:36:11 PM
Clutch pedal
Starter button on the floor and manual choke
Quote from: MrH on April 17, 2023, 12:10:57 PM
Ah, that's sad. If your lot is that big, I would strongly consider a remote operated gate maybe? Guess it depends on your property layout.
No reports of local house burglaries so it isn't that bad (yet). I have a two entrance semicircular driveway and the house is in full view of the street so gates would look weird. Plus mostly I need those Amazon packages and clothes from the dry cleaner at my doorstep :lol:
Quote from: Laconian on April 16, 2023, 08:03:45 PM
Maybe..? It depends on how many cars have the vulnerability. Supporting products that are near or past their "end of life" is pretty costly and companies aren't going to do it longer than they absolutely have to.
My guess is that this affects only the newest cars (last couple years) which have sensors or lights which talk to the Can Bus.
Quote from: MrH on April 17, 2023, 10:58:04 AM
I can't imagine ever living in a place where I felt the need to put The Club on my car in my own driveway :confused:
People suck- you're describing most of the country, because thieves rarely steal from their own neighborhood. Some crackheads stole the catalytic converter from the 2003 Odyssey my son's driving, and he lives and works in a super populated area with tons of traffic.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on April 17, 2023, 05:38:36 PM
My guess is that this affects only the newest cars (last couple years) which have sensors or lights which talk to the Can Bus.
People suck- you're describing most of the country, because thieves rarely steal from their own neighborhood. Some crackheads stole the catalytic converter from the 2003 Odyssey my son's driving, and he lives and works in a super populated area with tons of traffic.
Canbus has been a thing for at least 20 years now in automobiles.
Quote from: r0tor on April 17, 2023, 07:51:22 PM
Canbus has been a thing for at least 20 years now in automobiles.
Yes, but most exterior parts like light bulbs didn't give you access to it on most cars.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 17, 2023, 08:08:08 PM
Yes, but most exterior parts like light bulbs didn't give you access to it on most cars.
The TCU isn't any harder to get to than a catalytic converter
Quote from: r0tor on April 18, 2023, 06:13:04 AM
The TCU isn't any harder to get to than a catalytic converter
I suppose not.
The real complicating factors are...
- Canbus addressing is not published or standard. So someone has to do some legwork to figure that out for every car model.
- Newer cars generally have multiple can buses. So the can bus connecting the headlights might be on the same body control bus as maybe the door locks, but probably not on the engine control bus to start the car. The TCU is connected to the engine control network, but probably the door locks... Probably as the networks are firewalled from each other, but interlocks and other logic connecting the networks exist that can have an effect.
Playing with the can bus is actually pretty interesting. Linux has built in libraries to scan the bus, visually display data, and record/write information.
Didn't they do this in Gone in 60 Seconds?