Tesla

[Laconian]

Isn't this the same company that got caught up in an emissions cheating scandal?  Is their plan to just make up emissions numbers?

That was FCA. This is Stellantis

[AutobahnSHO]

That was FCA. This is Stellantis

     

[Morris Minor]

Ask your doctor about Stellantis.
(May cause nauseaheartpalpitationslowbloodsugarvertigoexcessivesweatingmuscleachessleepingproblemsinfertilityfatigueorweightgain)

[r0tor]

I thought from a previous discussion that the carbon credit contract was mostly paid out upfront (with debate on how Tesla handled booking that)... So probably little to no impact to Tesla

[Morris Minor]

Tesla has benefitted from starting with a clean sheet & doing their own thing. The big guys' designers are burdened by parts bin engineering requirements. The Model Y has fewer & more integrated components, so fewer connectors, less complex wiring loom: eg. half the number of ECUs compared to the ID4 & Mach E. Like whole system-on-chip computers compared to Newegg build-your-own.

Under the skin, the established players' first shots at EVs look like what ICE-marinated engineers & cost accountants come up with. Particularly the VW.

[Soup DeVille]

That was FCA. This is Stellantis

I work with Stellantis guys every day. None of them call themselves that; its either FCA or Chrysler.

[GoCougs]

Tesla has benefitted from starting with a clean sheet & doing their own thing. The big guys' designers are burdened by parts bin engineering requirements. The Model Y has fewer & more integrated components, so fewer connectors, less complex wiring loom: eg. half the number of ECUs compared to the ID4 & Mach E. Like whole system-on-chip computers compared to Newegg build-your-own.

Under the skin, the established players' first shots at EVs look like what ICE-marinated engineers & cost accountants come up with. Particularly the VW.

I have to think that established automakers are not fully in - EVs are really only going mainstream through government force, and though indications are pointing in that direction, it's not a sure thing IMO, plus the "direction" of said force is totally up in the air.

[Laconian]

What a clown. What does he actually believe, anyway?

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1392602041025843203?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet

[MrH]

He's an idiot.  It's not like any of that was unknown previously.  He did that to juice bitcoin, giving them another lever to manipulate, but now that they learned the financial implications of it, they want out (you have to book losses as they happen, and gains after you sell).  They'll likely have to restate financials though, it should be below the line.

[GoCougs]

It's fucking beautiful.

[Laconian]

He's an idiot.  It's not like any of that was unknown previously.  He did that to juice bitcoin, giving them another lever to manipulate, but now that they learned the financial implications of it, they want out (you have to book losses as they happen, and gains after you sell).  They'll likely have to restate financials though, it should be below the line.

What a great strategy! Pumping a different penny crypto like Dentacoin just before every earnings call.

[MrH]

What a great strategy! Pumping a different penny crypto like Dentacoin just before every earnings call.

When you've run out of levers to pull to post a profit, and haven't seen any meaningful penalty for the fraud pulled off so far, why not continue with the absurdity?

[Laconian]

I'm not convinced that the crypto gambit was about making money. I think more a case of Musk playing to his online fanbase, who are all-in on the crypto pyramid scheme shenanigans.

Remember all those Twitter crypto scam campaigns? So many of them were from Musk knockoff accounts.
"@eloon_mussk: Because I am such an empathetic and generous person I am DOUBLING everybody's ETH! Send your ETH to <address> and I will send you double the amount in return!"

[MrH]

It's not about making money?  He's front running every single tweet about cryto.

[Laconian]

Apparently I'm not the only one who thought it was him being le epic memelord:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/matt-levines-money-stuff-elon-musk-got-bored-of-bitcoin
"As far as I can tell he has only limited interest in manipulating the price of Bitcoin — or Dogecoin, or Tesla stock, or the other assets whose prices he can control with his tweets — for profit. He'll  do it for fun, sure, occasionally, but not in a way that serves his rational self-interest. I assume that what actually happened is pretty much what Musk said: He got into cryptocurrency on a whim because it fit  with his image of being fun and futuristic and annoying, and then
someone explained to him that it doesn't fit with his image of being good for the environment, and on a whim he decided to cool it on the Bitcoin stuff for a while."

[Morris Minor]

He's a bit bonkers: pas de question. I don't think he evil, but he's on the Trumpian mouth-running spectrum. Some people cannot shut up.

There're rumors that the Italian company that makes the fuckoff huge die casting machine that does the rear of the Model 3, is making an even bigger one, that will knock out the entire underframe of their $25K car. Supposedly to be produced in Germany & China (& later in Austin.) A single casting.


Edit: Model Y not the 3.

[Laconian]

He's a bit bonkers: pas de question. I don't think he evil, but he's on the Trumpian mouth-running spectrum. Some people cannot shut up.

There're rumors that the Italian company that makes the fuckoff huge die casting machine that does the rear of the Model 3, is making an even bigger one, that will knock out the entire underframe of their $25K car. Supposedly to be produced in Germany & China (& later in Austin.) A single casting.

I'm assuming it'll be huge for stiffness, but would it also be cheaper since it would be eliminating an assembly stage?

[FoMoJo]

Apparently I'm not the only one who thought it was him being le epic memelord:

https://news.bloomberglaw.com/banking-law/matt-levines-money-stuff-elon-musk-got-bored-of-bitcoin
"As far as I can tell he has only limited interest in manipulating the price of Bitcoin — or Dogecoin, or Tesla stock, or the other assets whose prices he can control with his tweets — for profit. He'll  do it for fun, sure, occasionally, but not in a way that serves his rational self-interest. I assume that what actually happened is pretty much what Musk said: He got into cryptocurrency on a whim because it fit  with his image of being fun and futuristic and annoying, and then
someone explained to him that it doesn't fit with his image of being good for the environment, and on a whim he decided to cool it on the Bitcoin stuff for a while."

Whether or not he has ASD, he is a bit of an odd duck.  No telling really whether he has any emotional involvement or just having a bit of fun.  However, there is no question that he is brilliant. 

[MrH]

His giant casting project has been an abject failure.  He has zero credibility here.

[CaminoRacer]

This 1 piece cast thing sounds ridiculous for Tesla to be looking at. My biggest problem with them is they want to push technology in too many areas all at once. If they stuck with more typical car manufacturing processes and just had their killer drivetrains and Supercharging network, I'd be more willing to buy their product.

[Laconian]

My Musk-fanboy friend is all about the OCTOVALVE

[FoMoJo]

I'm assuming it'll be huge for stiffness, but would it also be cheaper since it would be eliminating an assembly stage?

As well as eliminating a whole lot of robots.

[FoMoJo]

This 1 piece cast thing sounds ridiculous for Tesla to be looking at. My biggest problem with them is they want to push technology in too many areas all at once. If they stuck with more typical car manufacturing processes and just had their killer drivetrains and Supercharging network, I'd be more willing to buy their product.

Technology needs innovators to push the limits.  The "malaise era" should be a lesson.  Be thankful that he's headquartered in the US.

[Soup DeVille]

I'm assuming it'll be huge for stiffness, but would it also be cheaper since it would be eliminating an assembly stage?

I have concerns.

Die castings are notoriously brittle; they're fine up to a point, but they don't bend (much). They crack.

[CaminoRacer]

Technology needs innovators to push the limits.  The "malaise era" should be a lesson.  Be thankful that he's headquartered in the US.

They are pushing the limits of electric drivetrains, they don't need to totally reinvent the wheel. They don't have the bandwidth.

[Morris Minor]

I'm assuming it'll be huge for stiffness, but would it also be cheaper since it would be eliminating an assembly stage?

Yes, many assembly stages in fact. People dissecting the Model 3 criticized the complexity & excessive number of parts needed for the underpinnings, lots of expensive assembly steps. The big presses used for the Y address that by doing the rear chassis as one part. I think the plan is to take that to the next level with subsequent medels.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giga_Press

[FoMoJo]

They are pushing the limits of electric drivetrains, they don't need to totally reinvent the wheel. They don't have the bandwidth.

Someone needs to take the risk.  If it works out, he's a winner again, and the others will follow, besides, the weight saving in the platform will help offset the weight of the batteries.  Better handling.

[CaminoRacer]

Their assembly is a mess so instead of learning from current industry best practices, they try to leap frog it for no reason. They just can't do things the normal way, they like the tent re-work in the parking lot.

[FoMoJo]

Their assembly is a mess so instead of learning from current industry best practices, they try to leap frog it for no reason. They just can't do things the normal way, they like the tent re-work in the parking lot.

I don't know what that means.

Someone like Musk doesn't come along often...and some will say "thank goodness."  However if he is willing to take a chance on leapfrogging certain technologies, let him go for it.  So far, in his own irrational way, he has achieved quite a lot.  If it helps the industry to produce better cars, molto meglio.

[Soup DeVille]

I don't know what that means.

Someone like Musk doesn't come along often...and some will say "thank goodness."  However if he is willing to take a chance on leapfrogging certain technologies, let him go for it.  So far, in his own irrational way, he has achieved quite a lot.  If it helps the industry to produce better cars, molto meglio.

It means exactly that.

They were finishing assembly in a tent in a parking lot for a long time.

Its actually not entirely unheard of. A lot of cars this year will be finished the same way; they been "built short" because of shortages in the supply line (of which chips are just the tip of the iceberg) and will be finished later- often outside in tents.