2 new "dream" cars announced today.....which one would you choose?

Started by MexicoCityM3, February 20, 2018, 05:45:22 PM

Payman

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:09:50 AM
I can't agree with that. These cars are so fast and handle turns so well that no way in hell a Cobra manual can compensate by being simply manual.

A Cobra isn't going to match a PDK exotic at the track... not what I meant. I'd enjoy the experience more driving a manual at 7/10ths at the track, than steering an automatic around the track at 9/10ths. To each their own.

Raza

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 10:25:02 AM
I'd feel like a douche spending that much on my "dream car" and not getting a manual. Might as well look the part.

:lol:
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 11:18:42 AM
A Cobra isn't going to match a PDK exotic at the track... not what I meant. I'd enjoy the experience more driving a manual at 7/10ths at the track, than steering an automatic around the track at 9/10ths. To each their own.

I know. I did mean the experience not the outright speed. The thrill of a car of this level at the track is many steps above most anything else. I've had the chance to drive a few Ferraris and Porsche GT PDK cars at the track, all with some sort of auto gearbox. Believe me, I didn't miss the engagement of my 1M's manual one little bit.
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Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 10:33:59 AM
Guys, I don't really get the manual obsession regarding these specific two cars. Both are track toys, not really road cars. And believe me, at the track you're so busy you wouldn't miss the "manual" engagement.

Blah blah blah. Marketing claptrap.

I'm not a race driver. I'm too old, I'll never be one. The 0.01 seconds saved per shift don't mean shit to me.
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Payman

Let's just say me, you and another guy were at a track for a fun track day, and we got to choose between the Ferrari, the Porsche, and a manual 1966 Shelby Cobra, and I got to choose first, you'd be a happy man. If it were a race to the death, I'd take the Ferrari.

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 11:24:28 AM
Let's just say me, you and another guy were at a track for a fun track day, and we got to choose between the Ferrari, the Porsche, and a manual 1966 Shelby Cobra, and I got to choose first, you'd be a happy man. If it were a race to the death, I'd take the Ferrari.

:cheers:
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Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:22:16 AM
I know. I did mean the experience not the outright speed. The thrill of a car of this level at the track is many steps above most anything else. I've had the chance to drive a few Ferraris and Porsche GT PDK cars at the track, all with some sort of auto gearbox. Believe me, I didn't miss the engagement of my 1M's manual one little bit.

Really? Because when I drove an automatic Ferrari on a track, I did miss it.
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2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.


shp4man

Seriously, in an actual road course race with professional drivers, which one would win? I thought Ferraris were just pseudo race cars these days.   :muffin: :popcorn:

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:23:26 AM
Blah blah blah. Marketing claptrap.

I'm not a race driver. I'm too old, I'll never be one. The 0.01 seconds saved per shift don't mean shit to me.

It's not the performance. It's the mental bandwidth that is freed up and that you can use to enjoy MORE the other aspects of the car, like the handling, balance, throttle response, etc. There's only so much your brain can do and in a track scenario those other areas of focus are more enjoyable than moving the lever and pressing the clutch.
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MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:27:00 AM
Really? Because when I drove an automatic Ferrari on a track, I did miss it.

You're too slow then.  :evildude:
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Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:27:27 AM
It's not the performance. It's the mental bandwidth that is freed up and that you can use to enjoy MORE the other aspects of the car, like the handling, balance, throttle response, etc. There's only so much your brain can do and in a track scenario those other areas of focus are more enjoyable than moving the lever and pressing the clutch.

What gear you're in is kind of one of the essential aspects of driving.
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:28:28 AM
What gear you're in is kind of one of the essential aspects of driving.

The PDK type gearboxes in these cars let you choose and hold a gear. They are not your father's tiptronics.
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CaminoRacer

Quote from: shp4man on February 21, 2018, 11:27:26 AM
Seriously, in an actual road course race with professional drivers, which one would win? I thought Ferraris were just pseudo race cars these days.   :muffin: :popcorn:

Probably the Porsche.

The Huracan is crazy fast nowadays - I'd be interested to see how the Porsche & Ferrari stack up against the Lambo and a Corvette ZR-1.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:28:00 AM
You're too slow then.  :evildude:

Well, I did get timed out multiple times because I was getting too close to the slow ass Gallardos on the track and they didn't allow overtaking.

I admit that it was kind of nice, not having to worry about shifting. It was kind of like driving a CR-V, but without a good cup holder. I can see why you like it.  :devil:
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:27:00 AM
Really? Because when I drove an automatic Ferrari on a track, I did miss it.
We have established that you have weird automotive hangups. When I drove an auto Ferrari at the track, I did not. The "missing" 3rd pedal did not even cross my mind. Nor did it cross my mind when I drove the GT-R on the same day. A stick would not have added anything to either car, for me at least.

Seems odd to ignore 95% of a great car because 5% of it isn't to your liking. Especially when that 5% doesn't interfere with the task at hand (driving fast). If you don't care about lap times or pushing the limits why go to the track at all? Seems strange.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Payman

What's the point of a tachometer in a car that shifts itself? Don't understand that one. I also like using aural cues to change gears. It's part of what you lose in the track experience with an auto.

Edit: a fully auto car, not a flappy pedal one where I guess a tach is still somewhat useful.

Laconian

Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:32:50 AM
Well, I did get timed out multiple times because I was getting too close to the slow ass Gallardos on the track and they didn't allow overtaking.

I admit that it was kind of nice, not having to worry about shifting. It was kind of like driving a CR-V, but without a good cup holder. I can see why you like it.  :devil:

That only tells me the Gallardo drivers were slowerer.
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MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
What's the point of a tachometer in a car that shifts itself? Don't understand that one. I also like using aural cues to change gears. It's part of what you lose in the track experience with an auto.

Edit: a fully auto car, not a flappy pedal one where I guess a tach is still somewhat useful.

These cars will hold a gear and bounce on the rev limiter. At least in their "track" modes they do.
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'05 M3 E46 6SPD Mystic Blue
'08 M5 E60 SMG  Space Grey
'11 1M E82 6SPD Sapphire Black
'16 GT4 (1/3rd Share lol)
'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
'14 MINI Cooper Countryman S Automatic (For Sale)

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
What's the point of a tachometer in a car that shifts itself? Don't understand that one. I also like using aural cues to change gears. It's part of what you lose in the track experience with an auto.
You can still change gears with auto. There's just no clutch pedal :huh: Plus if you like shifting by ear you don't need a tach in a manual car either. Good luck shifting a GT3 by ear. I hope you have an extra engine (or 8) handy :lol:
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:29:36 AM
The PDK type gearboxes in these cars let you choose and hold a gear. They are not your father's tiptronics.

Nothing like going into a corner in fifth and then having to cycle through to 2nd to exit instead of going right to it.

Fast and furious trackday specials:
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

Raza

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 21, 2018, 11:33:31 AM
We have established that you have weird automotive hangups. When I drove an auto Ferrari at the track, I did not. The "missing" 3rd pedal did not even cross my mind. Nor did it cross my mind when I drove the GT-R on the same day. A stick would not have added anything to either car, for me at least.

Seems odd to ignore 95% of a great car because 5% of it isn't to your liking. Especially when that 5% doesn't interfere with the task at hand (driving fast). If you don't care about lap times or pushing the limits why go to the track at all? Seems strange.

I hate Brussels sprouts. If I'm at a restaurant that has a dish that seems 95% delicious, but has sprouts that I can't remove, I'm not going to order it.

I'm also not going to apologize for or justify my personal preference.
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
If you can read this, you're too close


2006 BMW Z4 3.0i
http://accelerationtherapy.squarespace.com/   @accelerationdoc
Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

MexicoCityM3

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 11:38:18 AM
Nothing like going into a corner in fifth and then having to cycle through to 2nd to exit instead of going right to it.

IMO in a manual car proper technique would have you heel and toeing through the gears downward as you slow down while braking for the corner, not skipping all gears.
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'18 M3 CS
'16 X5 5.0i (Wife)
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Raza

Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on February 21, 2018, 11:45:09 AM
IMO in a manual car proper technique would have you heel and toeing through the gears downward as you slow down while braking for the corner, not skipping all gears.

Why would you do that? You'd be accelerating while braking.
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Raza  on February 21, 2018, 12:02:14 PM
Why would you do that? You'd be accelerating while braking.

That's the secret to winning - go faster even while going slower.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

giant_mtb

Quote from: Rockraven on February 21, 2018, 11:33:53 AM
What's the point of a tachometer in a car that shifts itself? Don't understand that one. I also like using aural cues to change gears. It's part of what you lose in the track experience with an auto.

Edit: a fully auto car, not a flappy pedal one where I guess a tach is still somewhat useful.

I don't really have an answer for that, but I like having a tach on automatics.  It's nice to have visual representation of what your engine is doing, just like any other standard gauge.  Especially if I'm manually shifting my automatic (for whatever reason...downhill, off road, etc).

CaminoRacer

Quote from: giant_mtb on February 21, 2018, 12:05:06 PM
I don't really have an answer for that, but I like having a tach on automatics.  It's nice to have visual representation of what your engine is doing, just like any other standard gauge.  Especially if I'm manually shifting my automatic (for whatever reason...downhill, off road, etc).

+1 I need a tach no matter what.

I also base highway cruising speed off the tach. Don't like to spin the engine at high rpm for extended periods.
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12,000 RPM

Raza have you driven a manual car at the track? A downshift from 5th to 2nd at speed = a blown engine.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Raza

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 22, 2018, 05:16:51 AM
Raza have you driven a manual car at the track? A downshift from 5th to 2nd at speed = a blown engine.

I'm not sure your point. Yeah, if you fuck something up, bad things happen. I'm not saying accelerate to 120mph and then shift into 2nd immediately. I'm talking about exiting a 2nd gear corner.
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Quote from: the Teuton on October 05, 2009, 03:53:18 PM
It's impossible to argue with Raza. He wins. Period. End of discussion.