Audi Boss Thinks Future Electric Vehicles Will Actually Offer Less Range

Started by cawimmer430, February 18, 2021, 08:57:07 AM

cawimmer430

 :mask:


Audi Boss Thinks Future Electric Vehicles Will Actually Offer Less Range

Whereas many legacy automakers continue to engage in horsepower wars, when it comes to electric vehicles they are engaged in a range war. According to Audi chief executive Markus Duesmann, however, electric vehicles of the future may actually offer less range than they do now.

Hot on the heels of the global unveiling of the e-tron GT, Duesmann spoke with CNET about what the future holds for electric vehicles and stated that he doesn't foresee the range wars going on for much longer.

"Putting huge batteries for thousands of kilometers, I'm not sure that this is a trend that will go on," he said. "Later on they will go down because charging infrastructure is denser and also the experience of customers. Today you go to the gas station and get your fuel and its very natural how you get your energy for driving. With electric cars it's not that natural, you have to adjust your behavior a bit. But once you're used to that I think battery sizes will go down again, because they make the cars unnecessarily heavy and unnecessarily expensive. And unnecessarily big, too."

The new e-tron GT features an 85 kWh battery pack and can travel 238 miles (383 km) on a single charge under EPA testing. As battery testing continues to improve, car manufacturers will be able to reduce the size of the battery packs they use, reducing the weight of EVs and thus benefiting range, handling and performance.

Duesmann isn't the only one that thinks the pursuit of growing EV range is coming to an end. During Elon Musk's most recent appearance on The Joe Rogan Experience podcast, the chief executive of Tesla acknowledged that the range of EVs has morphed into a battle of bragging rights and said that with the forthcoming Cybertruck, Tesla is still deciding on the right balance between range and weight.


Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2021/02/audi-thinks-future-electric-vehicles-will-actually-offer-less-range/
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
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SJ_GTI

Makes a good point which I have heard others make. If ~80-90% of the population would be fine with an 80-100 miles range (especially since you recharge at home every night), the expense and resources involved with making every single car have 250-400 miles of range is a waste of resources and forces people to buy cars they don't need.

The issue for now is that charging is not as ubiquitous enough to make people feel comfortable with a smaller range because they need to be prepared for edge cases.

MrH

This is why PHEV are really the better choice for 99% of people.
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2019 Acura RDX SH-AWD
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Previous: '02 Mazda Protege5, '08 Mazda Miata, '05 Toyota Tacoma, '09 Honda Element, '13 Subaru BRZ, '14 Hyundai Genesis R-Spec 5.0, '15 Toyota 4Runner SR5, '18 Honda Accord EX-L 2.0t, '01 Honda S2000, '20 Subaru Outback XT, '23 Chevy Bolt EUV

Morris Minor

Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 18, 2021, 09:40:02 AM
Makes a good point which I have heard others make. If ~80-90% of the population would be fine with an 80-100 miles range (especially since you recharge at home every night), the expense and resources involved with making every single car have 250-400 miles of range is a waste of resources and forces people to buy cars they don't need.

The issue for now is that charging is not as ubiquitous enough to make people feel comfortable with a smaller range because they need to be prepared for edge cases.
Agreed. If ICE car owners had gasoline pumps in their garages, 99% of them would be comfortable, & served just fine, with just five or six-gallon tank capacities.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

Laconian

Quote from: MrH on February 18, 2021, 09:45:48 AM
This is why PHEV are really the better choice for 99% of people.

But then you add all the crap associating with the feeding, lubrication, and evacuations of the ICE.

Maybe we'll have little range extender modules a la the BMW i3. A self-contained weed whacker the size of a keg which can get you home if you need it.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

CaminoRacer

Quote from: MrH on February 18, 2021, 09:45:48 AM
This is why PHEV are really the better choice for 99% of people.

A Volt + a Bolt is a great garage combo.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

SJ_GTI

I didn't take his comments as meaning PHEV's are better at all. I think PHEV's are still just a bridge to going all electric at some point. The bottleneck is still about having easy (and relatively quick) charging.

We'll see how things going. Charging stations are becoming more common every day. Its a shame the US didn't settle on a single standard connection sooner but I suspect we will get there eventually.

CaminoRacer

250-300 miles is definitely plenty if the charging is fast enough. Improving battery tech to make them more compact is great, but the charging tech will definitely be what makes or breaks widespread EV adoption
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Morris Minor

If we were strictly rational we would be to sell our cars, and replace them with EVs. For the 2% of the time we want to do long journeys we'd go to the neighborhood Enterprise Rental and pick out an Impala or Fusion or something.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

Laconian

Quote from: Morris Minor on February 18, 2021, 02:06:09 PM
If we were strictly rational we would be to sell our cars, and replace them with EVs. For the 2% of the time we want to do long journeys we'd go to the neighborhood Enterprise Rental and pick out an Impala or Fusion or something.

The rational thing would be to give your existing gasser a nice long life, then consider replacing it with an EV. Stopgap solutions might not even be required in a few years when you enter the market.
Kia EV6 GT-Line / MX-5 RF 6MT

FoMoJo

No doubt in 10 to 15 years there will be as many quick charging stations as there are now gas stations.  The technology will advance as well.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

veeman

I still think ICE will be the dominant new car sales in the U.S. for the next 30 years.  The U.S. is not like Western Europe politically, economically, or geographically. 

Politically as a generalization compared with Western Europe there is less enthusiasm for going green.  Economically the country is less likely to impose the necessary economic incentives/penalties for getting people into an EV and investing in the infrastructure necessary to support EV namely ubiquitous charging stations.  Geographically, the country is more spread out with much less viable public transportation options. 

This is a country where the top selling car for the last several decades is the F150 pickup truck. 

Also EV is completely non-viable as a mass market vehicle for basically all of Central America, South America, Africa, India, Pakistan, most of Southeast Asia, and a bunch of other places including probably Russia.  Those places have absolutely no money to invest in public EV stations and an electric grid that can't support EV. 

Yeah I know all these car companies are saying they're going to replace all their ICE with EV in the next 10 - 20 years blah blah blah. Let's see. 

veeman

There are also 168,000 gas stations compared with 26,000 EV charging stations in the U.S.  It's going to take a lot longer than 10 years to flip that ratio.

cawimmer430

Quote from: veeman on February 19, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
Politically as a generalization compared with Western Europe there is less enthusiasm for going green.


I would argue that the vast majority of Europeans have other priorities than caring about going green, the climate change hysteria and so forth. The problem from my point of view is that for the last decade or so the minorities composed of climate hysterics, car-haters, gender fanatics etc. have, in Europe, been screaming and whining around very loudly thus giving the impression that it's the "majority" that wants this.

Whenever some articles comes out of the EU[SSR] claiming that "EVs are selling like hot cakes", it's total BS because plug-in hybrids are counted as part of those EV sales. If a hybrid vehicle has an all-EV range of over 51 or 53 km, it's automatically liable for an E-license plate and basically EV status. Rest assured that such vehicles are used in ICE mode most of the time.
-2018 Mercedes-Benz A250 AMG Line (W177)



WIMMER FOTOGRAFIE - Professional Automotive Photography based in Munich, Germany
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Morris Minor

Quote from: veeman on February 19, 2021, 05:26:38 PM
I still think ICE will be the dominant new car sales in the U.S. for the next 30 years.  The U.S. is not like Western Europe politically, economically, or geographically. 

Politically as a generalization compared with Western Europe there is less enthusiasm for going green.  Economically the country is less likely to impose the necessary economic incentives/penalties for getting people into an EV and investing in the infrastructure necessary to support EV namely ubiquitous charging stations.  Geographically, the country is more spread out with much less viable public transportation options. 

This is a country where the top selling car for the last several decades is the F150 pickup truck. 

Also EV is completely non-viable as a mass market vehicle for basically all of Central America, South America, Africa, India, Pakistan, most of Southeast Asia, and a bunch of other places including probably Russia.  Those places have absolutely no money to invest in public EV stations and an electric grid that can't support EV. 

Yeah I know all these car companies are saying they're going to replace all their ICE with EV in the next 10 - 20 years blah blah blah. Let's see. 
All this is true.
My one and only visit to a developing nation was very educational, in that it taught me what things look like when there is fuckall in the way of capital to spend on anything. Tens of millions of stinking unsmogged scooters hauling huge bottles of water around because the stuff in the pipes is non-potable.


EV charging station projects would be a distant conceit of prissy Westerners. And money for them would be siphoned into the kleptocrats' pockets anyway.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

FoMoJo

Quote from: Morris Minor on February 21, 2021, 05:42:17 AM
All this is true.
My one and only visit to a developing nation was very educational, in that it taught me what things look like when there is fuckall in the way of capital to spend on anything. Tens of millions of stinking unsmogged scooters hauling huge bottles of water around because the stuff in the pipes is non-potable.


EV charging station projects would be a distant conceit of prissy Westerners. And money for them would be siphoned into the kleptocrats' pockets anyway.
Yet, at times, their air is unbreathable.  For those nations with more direct sun, solar panels would be an ideal investment, especially as they transform into manufacturing centres.  Those scooters and tuk-tuks that spew out so much of the pollution could eventually be replaced by electric power.  Of course, it can't happen overnight, but it can start.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."