Author Topic: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.  (Read 336 times)

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Offline shp4man

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Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« on: April 05, 2021, 10:14:52 am »
Biden, or whoever is actually running the country, wants to push for electric vehicles. Only problem is that the raw materials to make batteries mostly comes from China.
I swear to God, the enviro-wackos will destroy this country's economy.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2021/04/04/electric-cars-batteries/

Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2021, 10:40:02 am »
The key is in research and development...Future batteries, coming soon: Charge in seconds, last months and power over the air

Rather than looking backwards, success lies in looking forward.  Battery development is still in its infancy. 
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Offline r0tor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2021, 06:59:49 pm »
Better invest in better battery tech then
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #3 on: April 06, 2021, 02:00:39 am »
Better invest in better battery tech then
This is why I jumped in on TSLA a while back. More for the engineering, power systems, & battery tech than the cars. My concern is Musk. He's brilliant & I like his basic principals grasp & the whole vertical integration approach. But he's on the Trump-child spectrum and gets into trouble with grownups.
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Offline r0tor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #4 on: April 06, 2021, 03:15:20 pm »
Tesla currently uses a fraction of the cobalt its competition uses and has plans for cobalt free batteries ... That should calm shippy down
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #5 on: April 06, 2021, 04:24:22 pm »
What will destroy our country's economy is refusing to invest in R&D for stuff the future world will want. Internal combustion's days are numbered.
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2021, 07:40:42 pm »
What will destroy our country's economy is refusing to invest in R&D for stuff the future world will want. Internal combustion's days are numbered.
We're in that weird changeover zone, where the last of the outgoing old technology is better than the first of the incoming new technology. We need the appropriate skill sets.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2021, 07:50:05 pm »
We're in that weird changeover zone, where the last of the outgoing old technology is better than the first of the incoming new technology. We need the appropriate skill sets.

Ransom Olds was inspired to build cars because of his disdain for smelly horses. At the time, cars were frightening, underdeveloped pieces of shit - horses probably seemed like a safer bet than horseless carriages at the time. And yet here we are - the upstart technology generated huge riches for Detroit and the country.

What skill sets do we need, exactly? IMO this is basically our generation's space race - if we let the nerds go nuts on fundamental research we'll ride the next 100 years of prosperity. Certainly we'll get a lot better ROI than the trillions wasted on that garbage F-35.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2021, 07:53:25 pm by Laconian »
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #8 on: April 08, 2021, 05:58:20 am »
Britain's railways were worn out after WWII finished. Six years of ultra heavy usage and deferred maintenance. They drew up a modernization plan and decided to ignore the engineers & stick with steam locomotion. This was politically expedient. Britain had lots of coal, which was cheap, would employ unionized miners and avoid the cost of importing oil for the diesel-electrics that had already taken over in the US. It would also employ the thousands of skilled men in the shops that had been building & maintaining steam locomotives for a century.

So they ended up with fleets tried & proven new steam engines - dirty & insanely expensive to maintain. On continental Europe, where the railways had been destroyed completely, they went electric.

The UK was left in the dust, ended up scrapping it all by the mid-60s and starting over, trying to develop the expertise that its competitors had in place & had been refining for 20 years.
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Offline shp4man

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #9 on: April 08, 2021, 08:49:06 am »
An orderly transition that doesn't depend on resources from a hostile power and trillions of printed government dollars.

Common sense.

Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #10 on: April 08, 2021, 09:08:38 am »
An orderly transition that doesn't depend on resources from a hostile power and trillions of printed government dollars.

Common sense.
Corporate America should've thought of that about 50+ years ago...before they thought it was a good idea to ship all their manufacturing, and intellectual properties...to China; just to pad their bottom line.

Can't really blame Trump for that, or Biden.
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #11 on: April 08, 2021, 09:29:32 am »
Corporate America should've thought of that about 50+ years ago...before they thought it was a good idea to ship all their manufacturing, and intellectual properties...to China; just to pad their bottom line.

Can't really blame Trump for that, or Biden.
What are you talking about? The world was locked down in tariff barriers & China was a shit-shovelling subsistence dump. Its only enterprise then was the slaughter of tens of millions of its citizens.
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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #12 on: April 08, 2021, 09:52:05 am »
What are you talking about? The world was locked down in tariff barriers & China was a shit-shovelling subsistence dump. Its only enterprise then was the slaughter of tens of millions of its citizens.
Trade barriers did protect US jobs...until they were dismantled and the good manufacturing jobs went off shore.  Oddly, the struggle to reverse that trend started with Obama and was further accelerated by the Trump administration and now Biden's administration.  The strategy is essentially the same with a couple of additional twists.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #13 on: April 08, 2021, 11:18:17 am »
An orderly transition that doesn't depend on resources from a hostile power

What of OPEC?

Quote
trillions of printed government dollars.

"A 2017 study by the consulting firm Management Information Services, Inc. (MISI)[54] estimated the total historical federal subsidies for various energy sources over the years 1950–2016. The study found that oil, natural gas, and coal received $414 billion, $140 billion, and $112 billion (2015 dollars), respectively, or 65% of total energy subsidies over that period." We still peel off $20B a year for the oil industry. I don't know why, it's not like they're on the cutting edge of... anything.

And the massive unpaid bill due to all the environmental damage from extracting, refining, and burning fossil fuels? Global warming, Deepwater Horizon, Valdez? Leaded gasoline exposure dropping the IQ of an entire generation?
« Last Edit: April 08, 2021, 11:21:13 am by Laconian »
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Offline CaminoRacer

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #14 on: April 08, 2021, 11:33:33 am »
+1 to Kevin's posts. This is all a warning sign that the US needs to invest heavily in the R&D, manufacturing, and resources needed for future tech like EVs, not stick to our old school tech.
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Offline r0tor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #15 on: April 09, 2021, 10:00:24 am »
We pay directly with our own health from complications caused by air pollution and indirectly pay associated costs through climate change / environmental issues, wars in the middle east and billions spent on tanker and shipping security, and massive continued costs of upkeep to our crumbling infrastructure.

If the cost of a gallons of gas incorporated all of the above, nobody would be able to afford it.
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #16 on: April 09, 2021, 11:12:16 am »
We'll have a schism for decades. In many third world countries you're lucky if the power stays on more than a few hours per day. There's no infrastructure... & money for improving it is stolen. This is a mild example of what I saw in SE Asia.

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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #17 on: April 09, 2021, 11:23:07 am »
We'll have a schism for decades. In many third world countries you're lucky if the power stays on more than a few hours per day. There's no infrastructure... & money for improving it is stolen. This is a mild example of what I saw in SE Asia.


Obviously, there is a huge schism that exists now, however, this should not hold back advanced nations from advancing.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #18 on: April 09, 2021, 11:27:44 am »
We'll have a schism for decades. In many third world countries you're lucky if the power stays on more than a few hours per day. There's no infrastructure... & money for improving it is stolen. This is a mild example of what I saw in SE Asia.

Japan has worse powerline craziness and they are the infrastructure capital of the world.

https://www.google.com/search?q=japanese+power+lines&safe=off&sxsrf=ALeKk02164qYKVlfR0MxEtrMvdueqN9Ocg:1617989249487&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwio29rT1_HvAhVHgp4KHRsNDEMQ_AUoAXoECAEQAw&biw=1281&bih=718
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #19 on: April 09, 2021, 03:37:16 pm »
Visiting Vietnam, then doing it in the raw rather than in a tour group, was one of the best educational experiences I've had. HCMC had been building a new metro in a joint venture with the Japanese. It was stopped dead when the Japanese pulled out because of the corruption. So the only option transportation option for regular folks remains a scooter. Millions of them. Unsmogged. Unbreathable air.

Westerners are targets for being pulled over by the cops, because they have money. So you carry two wallets. One for the bribe money stash, and then the real wallet, hidden away.
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Offline AutobahnSHO

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #20 on: April 10, 2021, 07:13:40 pm »
Imagine if we had kept on researching and refining nuclear power and could just go complete electric with little burning of anything.......
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #21 on: April 10, 2021, 07:50:47 pm »
Imagine if we had kept on researching and refining nuclear power and could just go complete electric with little burning of anything.......

Yeah, ugh.. a dropped ball for sure.
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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #22 on: April 10, 2021, 07:53:46 pm »
Imagine if we had kept on researching and refining nuclear power and could just go complete electric with little burning of anything.......
Certainly one of the options, but nuclear fusion seems to be the primary goal for the future.
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #23 on: April 10, 2021, 08:33:02 pm »
Certainly one of the options, but nuclear fusion seems to be the primary goal for the future.

We're still at the early phases of that, I fear.
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Offline Soup DeVille

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #24 on: April 10, 2021, 08:48:33 pm »
We're still at the early phases of that, I fear.

And have been for forty years.
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Offline FoMoJo

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #25 on: April 10, 2021, 08:51:19 pm »
And have been for forty years.
Some 14 year old genius will come along and solve it.
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Offline Morris Minor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #26 on: April 12, 2021, 02:03:13 am »
Yeah, ugh.. a dropped ball for sure.
"Listen to your engineers.." as they say. It would be interesting to see what a 21st century nuke plant would look like, (vs the ones of 60 years-ago on which we base our anxieties.)
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Offline r0tor

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #27 on: April 12, 2021, 06:41:13 pm »
Bull Gates is sponsoring a nuclear development company... Use liquid sodium instead of water to cool which reduces the chances of blowing the reactor up from overpressure and allows for natural circulation to drive the cooling system instead of external pumps.

...still way too massively expensive to ever be viable...
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Offline Laconian

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Re: Switching to EVs will benefit.......you guessed it. China.
« Reply #28 on: April 16, 2021, 10:56:35 pm »
Aren't thorium and pellet reactors both safe against meltdowns?
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