Tesla

Started by SJ_GTI, February 23, 2017, 07:11:02 AM

giant_mtb

Quote from: r0tor on April 19, 2018, 08:04:45 PM
This has been repeatedly admitted.  Firstly lithium had limited supply.  Secondly the battery packs are mostly hand assembled yet until a new assembly line gets up and running in the gigafactory.

There isn't exactly a large amount of suppliers out there capable of making battery packs for ev's as the tech is still very new, very specialized/proprietary, and still evolving.

Aren't the batteries pretty crucial to the essence of the machine? 🤔

12,000 RPM

Quote from: giant_mtb on April 19, 2018, 10:33:00 PM
Aren't the batteries pretty crucial to the essence of the machine? 🤔
Yes but battery availability <> manufacturing problems. If it were just a matter of batteries they wouldn't be doing shit like building by hand or fucking with the shift schedules.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

r0tor

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 20, 2018, 05:44:07 AM
Yes but battery availability <> manufacturing problems. If it were just a matter of batteries they wouldn't be doing shit like building by hand or fucking with the shift schedules.

Except "building by hand" was shown to be bullshit (except for the batteries!) and an increased battery supply would support increased shift schedules
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Tave

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on April 18, 2018, 07:18:28 PM
I am pretty sure nearly every auto maker started up in the last 100 years. Only Ford and Daimler come to mind as those who came before.

More importantly, there have been several startups in the last 50-60 years; many of which set up shop in the US long after GM became the big kahuna.They are not trying to do the impossible. It's not so much glee as it is disappointment. Elon cannot get out of the way of his own ego, and seems to seek to make challenges where he doesn't have to.

You look at something like the Iphone, the revolution was in the product. The manufacturing was and remains secondary and conventional. Teslas are similarly game changing. There is zero need to fuck that all up trying to reinvent manufacturing from scratch. Especially at the direction of a guy with zero experience in it.

GM is 110 years old. Chrysler (Dodge) is 118 years old. BMW is 102 years old. Even the newest global players in the developed world—the Koreans, Japanese and VW—started as WWII era industries and are 70 and 80 years old, respectively.

I'm not talking about a company like Panoz or Pagani that can survive in a warehouse on a handful of models. I said "volume" players. The last independent startup American mainstream auto company was started in 1954 and died over 30 years ago.
As I write, highly civilized human beings are flying overhead, trying to kill me.

Quote from: thecarnut on March 16, 2008, 10:33:43 AM
Depending on price, that could be a good deal.

Morris Minor

Excerpt from the earnings call yesterday.
-----
When Mr. Sacconaghi asked what the company's specific capital requirements would be, Mr. Musk cut him off.

"Boring, bonehead questions are not cool—next," Mr. Musk said, turning to the operator for the next question.

Joseph Spak of RBC Capital Markets then asked what percentage of Model 3 reservation holders who have been invited to start configuring their orders have actually done so.

Mr. Musk was silent for about 15 seconds.

"We're going to go to YouTube, sorry. These questions are so dry. They're killing me." He directed the operator to take questions from Tesla investor Galileo Russell, whose HyperChange TV YouTube channel features a video titled, "Why I Bought Tesla Today at $255/Share."

Mr. Russell, who had campaigned to get on the call usually reserved for analysts, got more than 20 minutes from Mr. Musk. The first of his dozen or so questions: When will Tesla launch its own network of driverless cars?

"Thank you for an interesting question," Mr. Musk replied.

---------

and.

After Mr. Musk began deflecting questions, Tesla's stock fell more than 5% in about a 20-minute span.

(credit WSJ)
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 03, 2018, 06:01:37 AM
Excerpt from the earnings call yesterday.
-----
When Mr. Sacconaghi asked what the company's specific capital requirements would be, Mr. Musk cut him off.

"Boring, bonehead questions are not cool—next," Mr. Musk said, turning to the operator for the next question.

Joseph Spak of RBC Capital Markets then asked what percentage of Model 3 reservation holders who have been invited to start configuring their orders have actually done so.

Mr. Musk was silent for about 15 seconds.

"We're going to go to YouTube, sorry. These questions are so dry. They're killing me." He directed the operator to take questions from Tesla investor Galileo Russell, whose HyperChange TV YouTube channel features a video titled, "Why I Bought Tesla Today at $255/Share."

Mr. Russell, who had campaigned to get on the call usually reserved for analysts, got more than 20 minutes from Mr. Musk. The first of his dozen or so questions: When will Tesla launch its own network of driverless cars?

"Thank you for an interesting question," Mr. Musk replied.

---------

and.

After Mr. Musk began deflecting questions, Tesla's stock fell more than 5% in about a 20-minute span.

(credit WSJ)

"Oh Crap, a relevant question I should know the answer to? Boring: let's talk to my unofficial Youtube hype guy."
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

SJ_GTI

I was reading about it last night. I think the stress of the Model 3 launch is getting to him.

Earnings calls aren't meant to be commercials...they are pretty specifically for investors to ask those dry, boring questions that really only investors care about.

giant_mtb


Morris Minor

#1298
IMO the subtext of his insulting non-answer is that a disquieting number of Model 3 reservation holders are walking away.

And, IMO, they're walking away because of:

Lack of confidence in the viability of Tesla (and therefore its post-sales support)
Reports on the so-so quality
They'd have preferred a Tesla CUV anyway (see stories of Ford & crashing sedan sales)
Tesla's shedding of its halo is finally allowing their left brains to begin kicking in.
⏤  '10 G37 | '21 CX-5 GT Reserve  ⏤

MX793

Quote from: Morris Minor on May 03, 2018, 08:03:50 AM
IMO the subtext of his insulting non-answer is that a disquieting number of Model 3 reservation holders are walking away.

And, IMO, they're walking away because of:

Lack of confidence in the viability of Tesla (and therefore its post-sales support)
Reports on the so-so quality
They'd have preferred a Tesla CUV anyway (see stories of Ford & crashing sedan sales)
Tesla's shedding of its halo is finally allowing their left brains to begin kicking in.

Also, Tesla is only making fully loaded versions ($45k+) right now and not the $35k base models they flaunted early on that I suspect a lot of deposit placers actually wanted.  And, depending on sales volume, they may lose out on the 7K gov't rebate before Tesla gets around to building the more affordable versions.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

veeman

Putting down $1000 knowing it's fully refundable versus putting down $45+ thousand and nonrefundable...

It's easy to be environmentally conscientious when it's cheap to do so. 

giant_mtb

So basically they said "we're gonna make an affordable one," started taking deposits, and then started building the ones for the wealthier people that didn't put deposits down instead? 

Dick move.

MX793

Quote from: giant_mtb on May 03, 2018, 09:47:52 AM
So basically they said "we're gonna make an affordable one," started taking deposits, and then started building the ones for the wealthier people that didn't put deposits down instead? 

Dick move.

Deposit holders get first dibs.  I don't recall if deposits were on specific trims or just a deposit for a non-descript Model 3.  I'm sure some deposit holders were interested in the full fat versions, but I suspect many were looking at getting a base model.  Depositors holding out for base models will be waiting for a while yet before Tesla starts building those.

Also, Tesla has historically built fully-loaded models first, then moved to producing base models later when introducing new models.  They did that with both Model S and X.  So that practice was to be expected.
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

AutobahnSHO

Regular "OMG I WANT A COOL LOOKING ELECTRIC CAR" potential customers did not expect it though.

The hypetrain is running out of steam.
Will

SJ_GTI

I know some folks have mentioned it before, but I wonder if Tesla going bankrupt would actually be good for the long term health of electric cars. A legit manufacturing company (either a current car company or someone like Magna Steyr) could get the assets and IP and produce these cars efficiently and effectively.

Lebowski

I'm surprised it's not down a lot more.  I can't think of an example of a CEO being so dismissive of, in this case, perfectly reasonable questions on an earnings call. I've long thought Elon Musk is a cult of personality type (huge red flag), this and a few other things of late makes me think this isn't just unbridled arrogance and that perhaps the guy's genuinely got a screw loose.

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 03, 2018, 12:39:19 PM
I know some folks have mentioned it before, but I wonder if Tesla going bankrupt would actually be good for the long term health of electric cars. A legit manufacturing company (either a current car company or someone like Magna Steyr) could get the assets and IP and produce these cars efficiently and effectively.

That would be great.

Or get someone who can actually manage the company and combine with the personable crazy guy and make a good duo.
Will

AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Lebowski on May 03, 2018, 01:00:50 PM
I’m surprised it’s not down a lot more.  I can’t think of an example of a CEO being so dismissive of, in this case, perfectly reasonable questions on an earnings call. I’ve long thought Elon Musk is a cult of personality type (huge red flag), this and a few other things of late makes me think this isn’t just unbridled arrogance and that perhaps the guy’s genuinely got a screw loose.

The guy is out there, for sure. But most of the "great ones" probably have several screws loose.
Will

Lebowski

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on May 03, 2018, 01:08:26 PM

The guy is out there, for sure. But most of the "great ones" probably have several screws loose.



I think the jury's still out wrt how great he is.


AutobahnSHO

Quote from: Lebowski on May 03, 2018, 01:11:43 PM

I think the jury’s still out wrt how great he is.

LOL definitely. But he does have Visions of Grandeur, and he's the first guy to put a car into space. So he's been getting 'something' done....
Will

CaminoRacer

Nothing wrong with having a hype man out front, but they need a COO who can handle behind the scenes and scale down some of the grandeur to more realistic levels.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

MX793

Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 03, 2018, 01:18:09 PM
Nothing wrong with having a hype man out front, but they need a COO who can handle behind the scenes and scale down some of the grandeur to more realistic levels.

There are a couple of recently unemployed White House PR people who have some experience in that sort of thing...
Needs more Jiggawatts

2016 Ford Mustang GTPP / 2011 Toyota Rav4 Base AWD / 2014 Kawasaki Ninja 1000 ABS
1992 Nissan 240SX Fastback / 2004 Mazda Mazda3s / 2011 Ford Mustang V6 Premium / 2007 Suzuki GSF1250SA Bandit / 2006 VW Jetta 2.5

Soup DeVille

Quote from: SJ_GTI on May 03, 2018, 12:39:19 PM
I know some folks have mentioned it before, but I wonder if Tesla going bankrupt would actually be good for the long term health of electric cars. A legit manufacturing company (either a current car company or someone like Magna Steyr) could get the assets and IP and produce these cars efficiently and effectively.

You can bet your bottom dollar several Chinese concerns would be bidding on that too.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

SJ_GTI

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 03, 2018, 02:21:37 PM
You can bet your bottom dollar several Chinese concerns would be bidding on that too.

Only if MAGA lets them.  :lol:

12,000 RPM

Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 03, 2018, 02:21:37 PM
You can bet your bottom dollar several Chinese concerns would be bidding on that too.
Somehow that feels wrong. I wonder if the... FTC?... would block such a sale. That would be like the Chinese buying Microsoft (OK maybe not that extreme).
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

CaminoRacer

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 03, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Somehow that feels wrong. I wonder if the... FTC?... would block such a sale. That would be like the Chinese buying Microsoft (OK maybe not that extreme).

Tesla the car company, doubt it. Their battery factory, maybe. Depends if they have any mining rights and stuff that would let the Chinese at our resources.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Soup DeVille

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 03, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Somehow that feels wrong. I wonder if the... FTC?... would block such a sale. That would be like the Chinese buying Microsoft (OK maybe not that extreme).

Maybe, maybe not.  I fail to see how its any different than the Chinese buying any other automotive concern.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

Submariner

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 03, 2018, 04:15:10 PM
Somehow that feels wrong. I wonder if the... FTC?... would block such a sale. That would be like the Chinese buying Microsoft (OK maybe not that extreme).

Trump would fight it and probably prevent it. 
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SJ_GTI

MAGA won't allow those China people to sell their phones here, no way he lets them buy a car company.