So I got my Z out for the first time today. I went out to the annual Grand Rapids 28th street "Metro Cruise", so of course the place was crawling with a-hole cops looking for trouble where there is none.
This winter I decided to put an authentic plate on my Z. You can permanently register any car with a plate from the year it was made. I put a "Spirit of '76" Michigan plate on mine that my dad had on his Vette back in the day. We sent in all of the proper documents, sent in a check, and got a registration back from the Michigan Secretary of State. The car was good to go, right...WRONG!
I got pulled over by a state cop at the metro cruise today because my authentic plate was "not in their system". There were 4 state cops there and none of them could prove that my state issued registration was real. One of them suggested that it was a forgery. They said that my registration was missing some number on the bottom, but the authentic registration for my dad's '63 Corvette is exactly the same.
They let me go, but I got off of 28th street as quickly as I could to get away from all the cops. I'm probably going to have to go and wait at the secretary of state's office for an hour so they can tell me there's nothing they can do. I really wanted to drive the car tomorrow, but I guess I can't now. :banghead:
What should I do to fix this? Is it possible that the cop screwed up?
If you got the registration from the state, then it's legal. I'd drive the car, and then inquire with the DMV on Monday about the issue.
Quote from: dazzleman on August 23, 2008, 05:22:34 PM
If you got the registration from the state, then it's legal. I'd drive the car, and then inquire with the DMV on Monday about the issue.
That's not what the state cop said.
He said that he could have my car impounded.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:27:20 PM
That's not what the state cop said.
He said that he could have my car impounded.
Then why didn't he?
I wonder if this is just a clerical issue. You need to get it cleared up with the DMV.
Those cops are assholes for letting you go. :devil:
Quote from: dazzleman on August 23, 2008, 05:28:30 PM
Then why didn't he?
I wonder if this is just a clerical issue. You need to get it cleared up with the DMV.
Probably because I was polite and cooperative.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:30:38 PM
Probably because I was polite and cooperative.
Good move.
Is it possible that the "authentic" registrations are listed under a seperate heading in their systems and that none of them are aware of this?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 05:38:59 PM
Is it possible that the "authentic" registrations are listed under a seperate heading in their systems and that none of them are aware of this?
I'm thinking about going down to the local PD and seeing if they can pull it up.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:42:25 PM
I'm thinking about going down to the local PD and seeing if they can pull it up.
Good idea, but, umm, take the Focus.
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/hplate_16252_7.pdf
It turns out that I can't even go to the Secretary of State for this. None of the branch offices handle authentic plates.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 06:21:24 PM
http://www.michigan.gov/documents/hplate_16252_7.pdf
It turns out that I can't even go to the Secretary of State for this. None of the branch offices handle authentic plates.
It seems that you're caught in a bureaucratic no-man's land. Not a good place to be. :banghead:
Visit your local PD and maybe they can explain things to you, when you're not under the stress of having been pulled over.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:30:38 PM
Probably because I was polite and cooperative.
PM me the reg number and I can run it to see if it shows up.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:20:09 PM
So I got my Z out for the first time today. I went out to the annual Grand Rapids 28th street "Metro Cruise", so of course the place was crawling with a-hole cops looking for trouble where there is none.
Or is it more likely that the cops are out looking for a-holes who are causing trouble where there would otherwise be none?
Perspective is a quality which should be reserved for people with more level heads.
Yeah those 50 year old men in old Impalas sure are a rough bunch. I saw 5 people get shot.
I shouldn't have used the word "a-hole" to refer to the cops (I was upset about the situation), but it was ridiculously excessive. A waste of tax dollars, at best.
This is not about that though. If this turns into a cops vs. the people thread I'll delete it.
Quote from: dazzleman on August 23, 2008, 05:22:34 PM
If you got the registration from the state, then it's legal. I'd drive the car, and then inquire with the DMV on Monday about the issue.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 05:27:20 PM
That's not what the state cop said.
He said that he could have my car impounded.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 05:38:59 PM
Is it possible that the "authentic" registrations are listed under a seperate heading in their systems and that none of them are aware of this?
Dave is right. So long as you have your registration, which is printed on a special weight paper, and you have your proof of insurance you are fine. They can write a citation, but it will ultimately be set aside (dismissed). Why? Because, you cannot issue a citation for a properly registered vehicle.
Also, the information is in the same system. That system is the Law Enforcement Information Network, or LEIN (a state of Michigan operated site only directly accessable by certified Michigan LEOs. Other state LEOs may only access it indirectly through NLETS) The Secretary of State is directly connected to our system, therefore all information housed within the SOS system is available to the LEIN system instantaneously through a direct link. Everything.
Lastly, sure the Trooper could have been wrong. All police officers are falable, we are human. I even made a mistake once. :lol: Point being, even if the information was not readily available to the trooper for whatever reason, he was able to confirm the possiblility of a valid registration through paperwork on scene. That, in a nutshell, is the purpose of the paperwork. Otherwise, we would go paperless.
I would say drive your car, enjoy the day. Just do it in a very mature and responsible manner so as to not draw undue attention to yourself. If your car is indeed impounded, and you are able to prove that the impound was improper then you do have legal remedy available.
But, remember, I am not a lawyer.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:08:51 PM
Yeah those 50 year old men in old Impalas sure are a rough bunch. I saw 5 people get shot.
I shouldn't have used the word "a-hole" to refer to the cops (I was upset about the situation), but it was ridiculously excessive. A waste of tax dollars, at best.
This is not about that though. If this turns into a cops vs. the people thread I'll delete it.
My response was intended to be light hearted, and no offense was taken with the a-hole remark. Just using word play for my entertainment. I knew you were upset when you posted, that is why I commented on "level heads." It was a tongue in cheek play on words.
But, I think you would be surprised how much trouble 50 year old men can cause. They usually have the money for tickets, and receiving a ticket within the car culture is viewed as a badge of honor; as you may well know. So, many of them think nothing of raising a little hell to show off their old cars in front of their friends. In short, they act like kids when they get together.
And then there is the alcohol/OWI enforcement aspect of it.
But, back to topic; I think you are probably fine. Otherwise, the MSP would not have missed an opportunity to write you a buscuit.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:08:51 PM
I saw 5 people get shot.
Had you been near Division and Hall, I might have believed you. :lol:
I'm thinking about switching back to a normal plate. I don't want this crap happening again. It never would have happened if I would have kept my old bridge plate.
If I go out of state with this plate, am I going to get pulled over because they think it's a fake?
With the grunting exhaust, the vintage styling, and the 1976 plate I have no chance of NOT drawing attention to myself.
If the registration is printed on special paper, then why did he suggest that it was a forgery?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:31:22 PM
I'm thinking about switching back to a normal plate. I don't want this crap happening again. It never would have happened if I would have kept my old bridge plate.
If I go out of state with this plate, am I going to get pulled over because they think it's a fake?
With the grunting exhaust, the vintage styling, and the 1976 plate I have no chance of NOT drawing attention to myself.
If the registration is printed on special paper, then why did he suggest that it was a forgery?
You will likely have less trouble out of state, than in. Most places take the printed version at face value because of the lesser and reduced ability to get info from our SOS. They can still get it, but it is not always complete, timely, or even available.
I was referring to 'undue' attention, such as revving the engine, squealing the tires, or any other overt action which would say, "Stop me, please."
Keep the plate, force the SOS to make it right. If you go back, then the civil service workers are not required to do their job by fixing the problem, making you an enabler. Plus, you have to pay to have it changed back, meaning you paid twice to register your car.
As for his suggestions, I was not there and cannot make a judgement on his thinking. He may not be aware the paper is a heavier weight paper. He may have been trying to make you think he was "on to you," I cannot say with any certainty. What I can say is that he may have just not been able to sort it out based on the information available to him, and he was frustrated.
I just don't want to get pulled over again. It's a huge waste of time for everybody and makes me nervous.
In his defense, he had no way of knowing that I wasn't a crazy gun-toting psychopath so I can't say I'm too upset about the way I was treated.
Quote from: hounddog on August 23, 2008, 10:20:29 PM
But, I think you would be surprised how much trouble 50 year old men can cause. They usually have the money for tickets, and receiving a ticket within the car culture is viewed as a badge of honor; as you may well know. So, many of them think nothing of raising a little hell to show off their old cars in front of their friends. In short, they act like kids when they get together.
I can definitely see how that could happen. Most people never fully grow up, and always retain a bit of that reckless, troublemaking side of their personality that is left over from their youth, and it can come out with the right people, under the right circumstances. While our bodies grow older, in certain ways, our minds don't always follow.
Well, I confirmed there's no record in their system. I would just go to the DMV, it was probably entered wrong.
Greg you have a PM
They'll probably crush the car.
It's a classic isn't it.
Too bad...
UPDATE:
WARNING: DO NOT PUT AN AUTHENTIC PLATE ON YOUR CAR!
I talked to two people from the SOS over the phone. Both of them were about as pleasant as using 60 grit sandpaper as toilet paper.
My plate is valid, but not in the police "system". This means that cops can and will pull me over whenever they want and I can't even use the car for anything other than car shows. Pleasure driving is actually illegal for this type of plate. Oddly enough, I was in a car show at the time I got pulled over.
I need to renew my old plate now. If I can't even enjoy the car, what the hell is the point?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 02:34:57 PM
UPDATE:
WARNING: DO NOT PUT AN AUTHENTIC PLATE ON YOUR CAR!
I talked to two people from the SOS over the phone. Both of them were about as pleasant as using 60 grit sandpaper as toilet paper.
My plate is valid, but not in the police "system". This means that cops can and will pull me over whenever they want and I can't even use the car for anything other than car shows. Pleasure driving is actually illegal for this type of plate. Oddly enough, I was in a car show at the time I got pulled over.
I need to renew my old plate now. If I can't even enjoy the car, what the hell is the point?
That's retarded.
Definitely. What is the point of a plate like that?
I don't know.
I was aware that you weren't allowed to use it as everyday transportation (to work and school), but no pleasure driving? I might as well have made my own licence plate out of cardboard.
The state cop was ignorant of the law. I was 100% within the proper use at the time and the lady said he should not have given me any trouble.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 07:28:06 PM
I don't know.
I was aware that you weren't allowed to use it as everyday transportation (to work and school), but no pleasure driving? I might as well have made my own licence plate out of cardboard.
The state cop was ignorant of the law. I was 100% within the proper use at the time and the lady said he should not have given me any trouble.
He may have been ignorant but his decision was appropriate. It's really impossible to know 100% of the laws out there and while he knew something was wrong he gave you the benefit of the doubt.
Quote from: Catman on August 25, 2008, 07:34:33 PM
He may have been ignorant but his decision was appropriate. It's really impossible to know 100% of the laws out there and while he knew something was wrong he gave you the benefit of the doubt.
Nothing was wrong though. Authentic plates are not stored in the police system.
I just got my old plate renewed today.
The SOS waived the late fee and they said that the cops were wrong to hassle and intimidate me.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 09:28:26 PM
Nothing was wrong though. Authentic plates are not stored in the police system.
Then what is the point?
Quote from: TBR on August 27, 2008, 05:32:11 PM
Then what is the point?
It's still a legal registration because it comes with proof on paper, but not in the system.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 02:34:57 PM
UPDATE:
WARNING: DO NOT PUT AN AUTHENTIC PLATE ON YOUR CAR!
I talked to two people from the SOS over the phone. Both of them were about as pleasant as using 60 grit sandpaper as toilet paper.
My plate is valid, but not in the police "system". This means that cops can and will pull me over whenever they want and I can't even use the car for anything other than car shows. Pleasure driving is actually illegal for this type of plate. Oddly enough, I was in a car show at the time I got pulled over.
I need to renew my old plate now. If I can't even enjoy the car, what the hell is the point?
That's absolute bullshit. And I got mad enough that I looked up the actual statutes in my book.
We have complete access to their entire system- our LEIN system has a place to specifically run "historical" plates. It's not in their system- period because it comes back "no record" which means it never got entered into their computer.
And it's doubly bullshit that you can't drive it. It's a legally issued proper historic registration plate and recognized as such by state statue .
SOS employees are civil service - so you get what you pay for and they usually don't knwo their ass from a hole in the ground.
MCL MMVC 257.803p.
Historic motor vehicles; use of authentic Michigan registration plates, fees, registration, revocation.Sec. 803p.
(1) The owner of an historic vehicle may use anauthentic Michigan registration plate of the same year as the model year in which the vehicle was manufactured instead of an historic vehicle registration plated issued under section 803a(1) by presenting the authentic plate number and year to the secretary of state at the time of registration. The owner of an historic vehicle may purchase and authentic Michigan registration plate from another person and restore the plate to its authentic original condition for use pursuant to this section. An authentically restored plate shall be considered an authentic Michigan registration plate.
(2) The owner of an historic vehicle applying to use an authentic Michigan registration plate under this section shall pay a fee of $35.00, shall certify that the vehicle for which the registration is requested is owned and operated solely as an historic vehicle, and shall certify that the vehicle has been inspected and found safe to operate on the highways of this state. The registration certificate need not specify weight of the historic vehicle. The registration issued under this section is not transferable to another historic vehicle.
(3) A registration issued under this section shall remain valid until the registrant either sells, transfers, or scraps the vehicle or modified the vehicle in a manner that requires the issuance of a new certificate of title for the vehicle under this act.
(4) After a hearing and for cause shown, the secretary of state may revoke a registration issued under this section for failure of the applicant to comply with this section, for use of the vehicle for which the registration was issued for purposes other than those enumerated in section 20a(2), or because the vehicle is not safe to operate on the highways of this state.
P.A.1949, No. 300, ss 803p, added by P.A. 1996, No. 404, ss 1, Eff. Dec. 21, 1996.
[1] M.C.L.A. ss 257.803a.
[2] M.C.L.A. ss 257.20a.MCL 257.20a.
Historic vehicle, defined.Sec. 20a. "Historic Vehicle" means a vehicle which is over 25 years old, and which is owned solely as a collector's item and for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, and similar uses, including mechanical testing, but is not used for general transportation.
P.A. 1949, No. 300, ss 20a, added by P.A. 1996, No. 404, ss 1, Eff. Dec. 21, 1996.All you have to do is "drive" while going to any car show, parade, tours, etc - and you don't have to be a participant just say you are.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 27, 2008, 05:20:08 PM
I just got my old plate renewed today.
The SOS waived the late fee and they said that the cops were wrong to hassle and intimidate me.
The SOS has NOTHING to do with any police- in fact most of what they do is governed by the State police. The officers wasn't hassleing you and intimidating you- he was doing his job. Too bad the SOS didn't do their and enter the information like their supposed to.
Quote from: rohan on August 31, 2008, 10:23:41 AM
That's absolute bullshit. And I got mad enough that I looked up the actual statutes in my book.
We have complete access to their entire system- our LEIN system has a place to specifically run "historical" plates. It's not in their system- period because it comes back "no record" which means it never got entered into their computer.
And it's doubly bullshit that you can't drive it. It's a legally issued proper historic registration plate and recognized as such by state statue .
SOS employees are civil service - so you get what you pay for and they usually don't knwo their ass from a hole in the ground.
MCL MMVC 257.803p.
Historic motor vehicles; use of authentic Michigan registration plates, fees, registration, revocation.
Sec. 803p.
(1) The owner of an historic vehicle may use anauthentic Michigan registration plate of the same year as the model year in which the vehicle was manufactured instead of an historic vehicle registration plated issued under section 803a(1) by presenting the authentic plate number and year to the secretary of state at the time of registration. The owner of an historic vehicle may purchase and authentic Michigan registration plate from another person and restore the plate to its authentic original condition for use pursuant to this section. An authentically restored plate shall be considered an authentic Michigan registration plate.
(2) The owner of an historic vehicle applying to use an authentic Michigan registration plate under this section shall pay a fee of $35.00, shall certify that the vehicle for which the registration is requested is owned and operated solely as an historic vehicle, and shall certify that the vehicle has been inspected and found safe to operate on the highways of this state. The registration certificate need not specify weight of the historic vehicle. The registration issued under this section is not transferable to another historic vehicle.
(3) A registration issued under this section shall remain valid until the registrant either sells, transfers, or scraps the vehicle or modified the vehicle in a manner that requires the issuance of a new certificate of title for the vehicle under this act.
(4) After a hearing and for cause shown, the secretary of state may revoke a registration issued under this section for failure of the applicant to comply with this section, for use of the vehicle for which the registration was issued for purposes other than those enumerated in section 20a(2), or because the vehicle is not safe to operate on the highways of this state.
P.A.1949, No. 300, ss 803p, added by P.A. 1996, No. 404, ss 1, Eff. Dec. 21, 1996.
[1] M.C.L.A. ss 257.803a.
[2] M.C.L.A. ss 257.20a.
MCL 257.20a.
Historic vehicle, defined.
Sec. 20a. "Historic Vehicle" means a vehicle which is over 25 years old, and which is owned solely as a collector's item and for participation in club activities, exhibitions, tours, parades, and similar uses, including mechanical testing, but is not used for general transportation.
P.A. 1949, No. 300, ss 20a, added by P.A. 1996, No. 404, ss 1, Eff. Dec. 21, 1996.
All you have to do is "drive" while going to any car show, parade, tours, etc - and you don't have to be a participant just say you are.
Well, there were two state cops there and they could not pull up my plate on the computer.
I called the SOS, told them my plate number and it was in their computer. The SOS lady made it sound like the historical registrations are paper only.
My uncle was just telling me last night that a friend of his had the exact same issue with a 1970 Camaro.
Somebody was bullshitting me.
The State of Michigan doesn't do anything that's paper only- and havent' for the last few years- in fact they're trying to get away from paper altogether. Well- except all the bullshit they stuff into your renewal envolopes at taxpayers expense. You were bullshitted (is that a word?) big time. SOS made a mistake on entry or didn't enter it at all. But the next time I see a historical plate I'll run it to see what happens.
Doesn't matter now.
I renewed the normal plate. It was only $32 to switch back.
Quote from: dazzleman on August 25, 2008, 05:54:26 PM
Definitely. What is the point of a plate like that?
What's the point of any specialty plate? To make a few extra bucks.
Quote from: Tave on August 31, 2008, 11:36:15 AM
What's the point of any specialty plate? To make a few extra bucks.
Oh, I know the point of a specialty plate from the govt's point of view, but I question why any driver would get a plate that basically curtails the legal use of their car.