There's a 3.3L I-6 six (mild hybrid). Or a 2.5L I-4 PHEV.
https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-mazda-cx-90-first-look-review/ (https://www.motortrend.com/news/2024-mazda-cx-90-first-look-review/)
(https://www.motortrend.com/uploads/2023/01/2024-Mazda-CX-90-side-profile.jpg?fit=around%7C875:492)
I'm sort of excited. Probably too big and will wait to see what the CX70 looks like.
It's a smidge better in the looks department than the CX60, but not nearly as good as most recent Mazda designs unfortunately.
PHEVs seem like more complexity than they're worth. Like someone in 1903 using horses plus an ICE on their cart.
If you want an EV, shit or get off the pot.
But I like the look of the I-6.
I'm also more interested in the CX-70 with an inline 6 than the -90.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 03, 2023, 12:51:38 PM
PHEVs seem like more complexity than they're worth. Like someone in 1903 using horses plus an ICE on their cart.
If you want an EV, shit or get off the pot.
But I like the look of the I-6.
I think there are some compelling PHEVs (especially on SUVs which are by default rather heavy and not athletic) and some turds out there. The better ones IMO having >~150hp EV motors and powering all wheels so they can actually move the SUV in daily traffic without effort. Too many have EV motord too small which means the ICE engine continually fires up anytime you head up a hill or get a little jumpy on the has pedal.
Saying that, with this thing I don't think I could get myself to pass up an i6
What is the attraction/advantage of an I6?
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 03, 2023, 03:15:15 PM
What is the attraction/advantage of an I6?
An i6 is inherently balanced so they run super smooth and also usually sound pretty good. .. Think BMW
Quote from: r0tor on February 03, 2023, 03:31:49 PM
An i6 is inherently balanced so they run super smooth and also usually sound pretty good. .. Think BMW
There is that, but I would think that the packaging would be a disincentive.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 03, 2023, 03:45:04 PM
There is that, but I would think that the packaging would be a disincentive.
The trend is taking an i4, adding 2 cylinders and remote mounting the accessory in the front of the engine to take it take the same space. Mercedes and Chrysler are also doing this.
Longitudinal mounted engines are preferred in the luxury market as it leads to the classic long hood, short overhang, RWD based layout.
I-6s are creamy smooth. The late L. J. K. Setright always maintained that their inherent balance was the pinnacle of ICE goodness.
Mercedes moved to them from V-6s IIRC.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 03, 2023, 03:45:04 PM
There is that, but I would think that the packaging would be a disincentive.
It's longitude mounted. RWD biased AWD, and much better proportions. It's much better than transverse turbo 4, FWD based AWD systems.
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2023, 08:26:24 AM
It's longitude mounted. RWD biased AWD, and much better proportions. It's much better than transverse turbo 4, FWD based AWD systems.
Yes, and one of the main reasons for V6s was packaging, as the I6 is obviously longer and requires a longer engine compartment. It will work on a full size SUV, but mid and compact CUVs/cars might be a problem.
Quote from: MrH on February 04, 2023, 08:26:24 AM
It's longitude mounted. RWD biased AWD, and much better proportions. It's much better than transverse turbo 4, FWD based AWD systems.
Prestige gap ->> https://www.carspin.club/index.php?topic=30886.msg2553977#msg2553977
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 03, 2023, 12:51:38 PM
PHEVs seem like more complexity than they're worth. Like someone in 1903 using horses plus an ICE on their cart.
If you want an EV, shit or get off the pot.
But I like the look of the I-6.
Hybrids are the actual answer for the majority of people. This "EV or nothing" narrative is super tiring.
Sorry I just don't get the appeal of PHEVs. Extra weight. Extra complexity. Extra maintenance. Extra tight usable space. Regular & mild hybrids make sense.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 04, 2023, 02:43:24 PM
Sorry I just don't get the appeal of PHEVs. Extra weight. Extra complexity. Extra maintenance. Extra tight usable space. Regular & mild hybrids make sense.
I looked at a Fusion PHEV but almost all of the trunk space was taken up by batteries. Not great.
https://youtu.be/dsICpCpt8hM
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 04, 2023, 02:43:24 PM
Sorry I just don't get the appeal of PHEVs. Extra weight. Extra complexity. Extra maintenance. Extra tight usable space. Regular & mild hybrids make sense.
Just enough battery to do the full errand run. My neighbor's BMW 540e drinks about three tanks of gas a year, and she DD's it to work.
Quote from: Laconian on February 04, 2023, 08:11:41 PM
Just enough battery to do the full errand run. My neighbor's BMW 540e drinks about three tanks of gas a year, and she DD's it to work.
I wonder how much battery depletion goes to lugging a cold ICE motor around.
Quote from: Morris Minor on February 05, 2023, 05:23:26 AM
I wonder how much battery depletion goes to lugging a cold ICE motor around.
An ICE weighs like 4-600 pounds. How much do those cold batteries weigh in an EV? A couple thousand pounds? :popcorn:
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 05, 2023, 07:58:02 AM
An ICE weighs like 4-600 pounds. How much do those cold batteries weigh in an EV? A couple thousand pounds? :popcorn:
PHEVs don't have big batteries. Around 300-350lbs for 13kWh.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 05, 2023, 07:58:02 AM
An ICE weighs like 4-600 pounds. How much do those cold batteries weigh in an EV? A couple thousand pounds? :popcorn:
These things only make sense as compliance vehicles concocted to support legacy vehicle manufacturers. Cronyism incarnate.
Buy a gasser, buy a hybrid, or buy an EV.
International Council on Clean Transportation (ICCT.)
"REAL-WORLD USAGE OF PLUG-IN HYBRID ELECTRIC VEHICLES"
https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/PHEV-FS-EN-sept2020-0.pdf (https://theicct.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/PHEV-FS-EN-sept2020-0.pdf)
Why do you say that? PHEVs provide big bang for the buck for everyone. For the owner, the cars are cheaper to operate and often faster. For society, consumption and pollution are lowered. Denser areas benefit a lot because shorter distances benefit more from electrification and airborne pollution in city centers is eliminated. You're familiar with the soot-covered building facades in Europe, I'm sure.
They add to the MSRP, but when viewed as a "performance mod" instead of a fuel economy crutch, a hybrid boost offers some of the cheapest added horsepower you can buy short of a turbo.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 04, 2023, 03:18:35 PM
I looked at a Fusion PHEV but almost all of the trunk space was taken up by batteries. Not great.
The rear seat passenger compartment is plenty of trunk space :lol: My parents have a Ford Fusion hybrid. They love it.
The idea of a PHEV is great- it's a full commuter range EV (for many people) and a full ICE.
In execution it's been lacking because it would need to be designed as such from the ground up, not an alteration of other designs.
Quote from: veeman on February 05, 2023, 01:02:14 PM
The rear seat passenger compartment is plenty of trunk space :lol: My parents have a Ford Fusion hybrid. They love it.
The regular hybrid still has decent trunk space. The PHEV is basically as small as my Miata's trunk!
(https://i.imgur.com/UBD5rCd.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ApLNV0m.jpg)