All-New 2019 Mazda3 Looks Sleek Inside And Out In Best Photos Yet

[r0tor]

They make nothing with any actual "zoom" for probably over 5 years now

Luckily they still have some good designers.

[MX793]

ND Miata is zoomier than the NB and Protege that were the foundation of the whole "Zoom" campaign.

[r0tor]

ND Miata is zoomier than the NB and Protege that were the foundation of the whole "Zoom" campaign.

You can say that about practically anything compared to its 20 year old relative.  Progress has been made.

Saying that, the 2019 MX5 is no faster than the 15 year old Mazdaspeed Miata.  Mazdaspeed and all "tuner" type mentality died a sad death many years ago.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Torsion beams work great and are easy to maintain. No drawbacks for the average person.

[Eye of the Tiger]

You can say that about practically anything compared to its 20 year old relative.  Progress has been made.

Saying that, the 2019 MX5 is no faster than the 15 year old Mazdaspeed Miata.  Mazdaspeed and all "tuner" type mentality died a sad death many years ago.

The next generation would rather call an Uber so they can spend more time staring at their phones.

[12,000 RPM]

Not much bigger than a MkIV Golf, and those were torsion beam.  As was the Euro Civic of a generation or two ago.

MkIV Golf is >10 years old, Euro Civic got dinged for said suspension.

Hell, a rear MacP suspension would be enough.

Suspension design is increasingly important as our infrastructure goes to shit.

[CaminoRacer]

MkIV Golf is >10 years old, Euro Civic got dinged for said suspension.

Hell, a rear MacP suspension would be enough.

Suspension design is increasingly important as our infrastructure goes to shit.

I bet a solid axle 1970 Cadillac rides better than an IRS Civic.

[Xer0]

Virtually nobody that's going to buy this thing gives a fuck about the rear suspension.

We said the same thing about the Corolla for god knows how many years and Toyota apparently came to the conclusion that people care enough to actually put in a competent rear suspension in the new one.  I think people get hung up on the average consumer not knowing the difference vs the average consumer feeling the difference which driving these cars back to back you totally can.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I bet a solid axle 1970 Cadillac rides better than an IRS Civic.

Bring back the tire! This giant wheel craze has got to end. The roads are too shitty for them.

[MX793]

MkIV Golf is >10 years old, Euro Civic got dinged for said suspension.

Hell, a rear MacP suspension would be enough.

Suspension design is increasingly important as our infrastructure goes to shit.

Torsion beam is actually a superior setup than a MacP strut.  Performs similarly, less packaging space, fewer parts.

[MX793]

You can say that about practically anything compared to its 20 year old relative.  Progress has been made.

Saying that, the 2019 MX5 is no faster than the 15 year old Mazdaspeed Miata.  Mazdaspeed and all "tuner" type mentality died a sad death many years ago.

A full second quicker to 60, .7s and 4 mph quicker in the quarter, 2 seconds quicker to 100, and 1.7s quicker 5-60 is "no faster"?  That's a lot faster.  And for less money, adjusting for inflation.  The ND runs about on par with the RX-8, at least in acceleration.

[FoMoJo]

My only experience with a torsion beam car was an early model Pontiac Sunfire that I got as a loner.  Upon leaving the lot, I had to pull over to the side of the road to see if the tires were flat, the suspension seemed so unresponsive compared to the Focus my wife had at the time.

Hopefully, Mazda has put a bit more effort into the driving dynamics.  Torsion beams seem okay on A body cars; not so much on bigger models.

[r0tor]

Yea, torsion beam rear suspensions are very superior after looking past the lack of spring rate adjustability, sway bar adjustability, basic control over camber and toe (and well rear wheel position in general), ect

[r0tor]

A full second quicker to 60, .7s and 4 mph quicker in the quarter, 2 seconds quicker to 100, and 1.7s quicker 5-60 is "no faster"?  That's a lot faster.  And for less money, adjusting for inflation.

Bullshit... Mid 14 sec 1/4 mile just like today
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazda/miata-mx-5/2004/2004-mazdaspeed-mx-5-miata/


Same goes for the current 3... Gets obliterated by a Mazdaspeed 3 and equalled by the ancient Mazdaspeed Protege.  There are no mazda performance offerings anymore... The company would rather try to be a budget Lexus.

[MX793]

Yea, torsion beam rear suspensions are very superior after looking past the lack of spring rate adjustability, sway bar adjustability, basic control over camber and toe (and well rear wheel position in general), ect

You can add a roll bar to a torsion beam, providing some level of adjustment.  MkIV GTIs had torsion beams with sway bars.

MacPs have shitty articulation and kinematics that results in camber changes when the suspension moves.  They also frequently have no camber adjustment (Mustangs use MacP fronts and there's no way to adjust camber without cutting metal).  Like the torsion beam, it's a rear suspension design suited for low-demand commuters, but has worse packaging than the torsion beam.

[MX793]

Bullshit... Mid 14 sec 1/4 mile just like today
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazda/miata-mx-5/2004/2004-mazdaspeed-mx-5-miata/


Same goes for the current 3... Gets obliterated by a Mazdaspeed 3 and equalled by the ancient Mazdaspeed Protege.  There are no mazda performance offerings anymore... The company would rather try to be a budget Lexus.

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/mazdaspeed-mx-5-miata-road-test

[Laconian]

Bullshit... Mid 14 sec 1/4 mile just like today
https://www.motortrend.com/cars/mazda/miata-mx-5/2004/2004-mazdaspeed-mx-5-miata/


Same goes for the current 3... Gets obliterated by a Mazdaspeed 3 and equalled by the ancient Mazdaspeed Protege.  There are no mazda performance offerings anymore... The company would rather try to be a budget Lexus.

The only time they've truly gone balls to the wall with horsepower was with the FC RX-7.

The RX8 has always been regarded as a "do more with less" type of car compared to its V6 peers.

[Laconian]

You can add a roll bar to a torsion beam, providing some level of adjustment.  MkIV GTIs had torsion beams with sway bars.

MacPs have shitty articulation and kinematics that results in camber changes when the suspension moves.  They also frequently have no camber adjustment (Mustangs use MacP fronts and there's no way to adjust camber without cutting metal).  Like the torsion beam, it's a rear suspension design suited for low-demand commuters, but has worse packaging than the torsion beam.

Packaging is super important in this segment, since the platforms are donors for CUVs which sell on cargo volume and cupholder count.

[r0tor]

You can add a roll bar to a torsion beam, providing some level of adjustment.  MkIV GTIs had torsion beams with sway bars.

MacPs have shitty articulation and kinematics that results in camber changes when the suspension moves.  They also frequently have no camber adjustment (Mustangs use MacP fronts and there's no way to adjust camber without cutting metal).  Like the torsion beam, it's a rear suspension design suited for low-demand commuters, but has worse packaging than the torsion beam.

Camber is easily adjusted in Mc P suspension. Mc P can also have a variable rate springs.  The sway bar actually does something!  The rear wheel doesn't relocate itself forward like on a twist axel when it moves... but who the hell wants a suspension that locates the wheel

Good grief... and then let's not mention double wishbone or multilink setups exist

[2o6]

It's a downgrade. If torsion beams were equal to IRSs, IRSs would not exist.

To be fair there are great driving cars with torsion beams. But if you had the choice between a (torsion) beam and IRS what would you pick?

stop saying IRS. Torsion beams are independent.

"IRS" could be a multilink setup, or it could be simple struts on all four corners.

[2o6]

Its not always that simple

Also this! Torsion beams work plenty fine for the applications they're commonly used for. They're also really compact.

[12,000 RPM]

Packaging is super important in this segment, since the platforms are donors for CUVs which sell on cargo volume and cupholder count.

All the more reason to go with a multilink/strut suspension. I don't think any crossover has a torsion beam, maybe aside from the CH-R which makes no sense anyway.

Camber is easily adjusted in Mc P suspension. Mc P can also have a variable rate springs.  The sway bar actually does something!  The rear wheel doesn't relocate itself forward like on a twist axel when it moves... but who the hell wants a suspension that locates the wheel

Good grief... and then let's not mention double wishbone or multilink setups exist

Yea I am seeing all the kinds of camber kits that were available for my Civic. I ran -1.5 at the front with nothing but the adjustability of the coilovers (stock top hat)

Plus the rear is a lot more flexible for MacP struts... you can pivot them basically at the middle of the car to help with the articulation

Lets not forget that struts have been OK for Porsche/BMW for 40+ years...................................

[2o6]

All the more reason to go with a multilink/strut suspension. I don't think any crossover has a torsion beam, maybe aside from the CH-R which makes no sense anyway.

The CH-R has a multilink setup.

The crossovers that have torsion beams are:

Ecosport
HR-V
Trax
Encore
Soul
Kicks
Juke (FWD)
CX-3
Kona (FWD)

In fact, I think the only car that has a multilink setup is the C-HR, and the Jeep Renegade. And the renegade isn't known for good handling.


Also...have you looked underneath a modern car? Putting struts in place over a simple trailing arm setup with a torsion beam would be a net negative with regards to packaging.

Even in the old Golf IV, the models with 4motion and a multilink rear, the trailing arms are pretty similar to the torsion beam model. and that setup really does fuck with packaging.

[Soup DeVille]

I bet a solid axle 1970 Cadillac rides better than an IRS Civic.

That's all about that sprung/unsprung weight ratio.

[Soup DeVille]

stop saying IRS. Torsion beams are independent.

"IRS" could be a multilink setup, or it could be simple struts on all four corners.

ehh, semi-independent. Motion of one wheel causes motion in the other. No, its not a live axle (which Lotus used for both weight and handling advantages), but its not completely independent either.

It is however likely (gasp!)- right for the application.

[Soup DeVille]

Camber is easily adjusted in Mc P suspension. Mc P can also have a variable rate springs.  The sway bar actually does something!  The rear wheel doesn't relocate itself forward like on a twist axel when it moves... but who the hell wants a suspension that locates the wheel

Good grief... and then let's not mention double wishbone or multilink setups exist

Manufacturers spend countless time and money finding what works best alignment wise for the product they're making. They aren't interested in making it easy for random changes.

[r0tor]

The CH-R has a multilink setup.

The crossovers that have torsion beams are:

Ecosport
HR-V
Trax
Encore
Soul
Kicks
Juke (FWD)
CX-3
Kona (FWD)

In fact, I think the only car that has a multilink setup is the C-HR, and the Jeep Renegade. And the renegade isn't known for good handling.


Also...have you looked underneath a modern car? Putting struts in place over a simple trailing arm setup with a torsion beam would be a net negative with regards to packaging.

Even in the old Golf IV, the models with 4motion and a multilink rear, the trailing arms are pretty similar to the torsion beam model. and that setup really does fuck with packaging.

So a list of fucking terrible CUV things have torsion beams... What point were you trying to make?

Plus you are missing that multilinks are actually better at rear suspension packaging... While having better handling/control

[Soup DeVille]

I think his point was a response to "I don't think any CUVs have torsion beams."

[r0tor]

I think his point was a response to "I don't think any CUVs have torsion beams."

and they all universally suck.... Which is what the whole bitch fest is about

[Soup DeVille]

and they all universally suck.... Which is what the whole bitch fest is about

Amazing that such a universally sucky setup is so widely used.

I honestly don't know if the Juke I drove was AWD or FWD, but its handling was perhaps the best thing about it.