Can Mazda be saved????

[12,000 RPM]

New 3 sales are in the toilet along with the rest of the brand

https://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2019/09/the-new-mazda-3-is-tanking-can-more-equipment-and-a-higher-base-price-change-that-in-2020/

They have done a lot right.... more crossovers, up to date tech. There's a long list of shit I'd like to see from them (AWD in the turbo 6 , bigger or at least portrait oriented screens integrated into the dash, ditch the turbos/diesels for hybrids), but the only two things I think they need to do are bring back the damn CX-7 and make all their vehicles like half a class larger inside. That would have been money much better spent than investing in Skyactiv-D/X which I think we can all agree have been total flops

Ultimately though I just don't know. Who is Mazda for in 2019? The car cognoscenti have a decent pool of used cars to choose from that align better with our wants (and budgets). Poseur class would rather pay $40K for a CLA than $30K for a 3 that's just as good and capable. Where does Mazda go from here????

[MrH]

I was blown away by the Mazda 3 I drove.  It's like a much, much nicer, smaller 3-series for cheap.  Agree on the half class larger inside.  All of their stuff feels really tight inside.  It's basically the opposite of Honda which all feels half a class bigger on the inside.

I'm curious why you want a portrait oriented screen?  Mazda 3's infotainment is pretty much perfect.  Right in the sight line, big, high resolution.  I don't think a single car is doing portrait mode Android Auto or CarPlay.  All those giant portrait screens (I'm looking at you Subaru Outback/Legacy and Volvo) end up using like 1/3 of the screen for CarPlay.

[veeman]

Great cars, both styling and driving.  Americans choose AWD and rugged SUV styling (Subaru) over sport.

[12,000 RPM]

I guess I should requalify... portrait screen once AA/AC can use the whole screen in that orientation. I run AA on my phone in portrait mode and it's way better for navigation. I was disappointed when Mazda went even wider with the screen. They would have to lose some of the line of sight stuff but I think that could be mitigated.

And if Mazda wants to compete in the premium space they need premium oomph to go with the premium feel. Some of the lease deals for poseur German offerings are stupid dupid and easily in shooting range of a mid range Mazda 3. I'd lease a stripper A3 FWD over a Mazda 3 just for the thrust alone.

[r0tor]

They need to define the brand again.  They jumped off the sporty "zoom-zoom" wagon that saved them 20 years ago but haven't really picked a new direction.  Cheap luxury?  Tech?  Blandness?

[12,000 RPM]

I think they jumped out of necessity, at least to some degree. I don't want to enumerate the various market conditions that would have prompted the shift because cars are depressing enough in 2019.

But I think with cars being so regulated and commoditized today... if you don't have volume, you damn well better have a safe niche and a clear brand identity that's relevant tot he market. Mazda is in the no-man's land of past and current brands like Saab, Volvo, Acura, Jaguar, Suzuki etc. with no clear play or place in the market.

[Speed_Racer]

I read somewhere they are trying to mature and head upmarket. Which means less fun stuff, more responsible stuff?
Hyundai seems to be moving into the market void they left with stuff like the Elantra Sport/GT and Veloster n

[MrH]

I guess I should requalify... portrait screen once AA/AC can use the whole screen in that orientation. I run AA on my phone in portrait mode and it's way better for navigation. I was disappointed when Mazda went even wider with the screen. They would have to lose some of the line of sight stuff but I think that could be mitigated.

And if Mazda wants to compete in the premium space they need premium oomph to go with the premium feel. Some of the lease deals for poseur German offerings are stupid dupid and easily in shooting range of a mid range Mazda 3. I'd lease a stripper A3 FWD over a Mazda 3 just for the thrust alone.

I recommend a 5 minute test drive of the 3 just to see the infotainment.  It's cool.

Agreed.  That's where I think they're failing too.

Mazda 3 AWD with the 2.5T for $34k?  Ooooof.  That's hard to compete with.  That would smoke the entire poser class for much cheaper.

[cawimmer430]

Put a Mazda badge here and bam, the company is saved. Enthusiasts consumers will flock to them.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Put a Mazda badge here and bam, the company is saved. Enthusiasts consumers will flock to them.

Or, put a Toyota badge on any Mazda... unless it's a Yaris.

[12,000 RPM]

I recommend a 5 minute test drive of the 3 just to see the infotainment.  It's cool.

Agreed.  That's where I think they're failing too.

Mazda 3 AWD with the 2.5T for $34k?  Ooooof.  That's hard to compete with.  That would smoke the entire poser class for much cheaper.

Give me a 6 2.5T AWD for $40K. Still smokes the poseur class but has a back seat fit for human adults.

I don't even know if Mazda has any ammo left after Skyactiv-D/X. They are sitting ducks right now. Maybe Toyota is just biding its time.

[HurricaneSteve]

I agree that the new 3 should have done more to differentiate itself. I didn't look at a 2019 simply because I didn't want to pay 28K for a car that's essentially the 2018 with more sound deadening. Making the 2.5T available would be a good start, even if it's auto only. There are many who buy a GTI for the comfort and power and by pricing it in line with that car, I think that would restore the car's sporty reputation.

Still, I think they're far from in trouble. Worldwide they still sell a million and a half a year and none of the companies you mentioned had a solid car that consistently sold 100K+ a year like Mazda has with the CX-5 and they're slowly updating their lineup. The CX-3 will be replaced by a much more viable CX-30 and I've heard that either the CX-5 will grow or something will slot under the CX-9. They're also set to introduce their first EV soon as well. Ford was selling over 100K Focii per year and still axed them in this market. If you're not Honda or Toyota, compacts are difficult to make money off of in the US.

[r0tor]

To sell cars today, you need to have something that is destictive about them... Be it reliability (Toyota), macho man image (Jeep), fuck yea hp (pony/muscle cars), ect.  Mazda really has nothing at the moment.


The mainstream vanilla section has become over crowded as practically nobody makes a terrible car anymore, styling is all fairly bland, nothing is fun to drive, and CUVs can be just as bland while a bit more practical.  They are all more or less different shades of vanilla and therefore sales/profit are just a race to the bottom.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Bring back the zoom zoom kid.

[2o6]

I think the internet trope of "I'm so much smarter than everyone else because I bought a Mazda" is part of the reason why I've been not posting online about cars so much anymore. Mazda has real issues and there's a reason why they're ignored by most enthusiasts and regular buyers, save for a couple models (Miata)



Part of it is tribalism - Honda guys are only gonna buy Hondas. But some of it is the fact there are numerous parts and upgrades out for basically any Honda motor ever. What Mazda motor have they ever made that was worth a damn? The old 1.8L from the NA and NB? That 2.3L MZR is a dumpy motor, and it's a trope on basically all Mazdaspeed forums that pretty much all of the damn things have spun a bearing or snapped a connecting rod.

It's also annoying that so many people think that "not as good" is equal to "bad". Mazda does make sharp driving, nice looking cars.

But you know what? Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia make cars that are about as good for most people, at a more reasonable price.


Also, although the Mazda 3 starts at around 22k, the vast majority of cars on the lot are much more than that! It's performance numbers are also mediocre, and so is its fuel economy.

FWIW, I can get a brand new Kia Forte manual for just under 14k. (Albeit incentivized) Is it as nice of a car as the Mazda? No. But it's still pretty damn good, has a stellar warranty, and likely will offer more accommodating financing options as well. And unlike the Mazda 3, it has room inside for real sized people.


The 3 is a flop because it's a badly packaged vehicle that's expensive and doesn't leapfrog it's compact car competition like people say it does.

[12,000 RPM]

The new 3 kind of reminds me of the emperor's new clothes. Your point about the Forte is spot on. It's not as avant garde or cool as the 3. But it has all the stuff people in this segment want and is actually kind of classy looking in the flesh. I'd wager the upcoming GT will be more fun to drive than any permutation of the 3 too.

They might have really dropped the ball here.

[Submariner]

Bring back the zoom zoom kid.

I think "dogs like trucks" was better.

[AutobahnSHO]

The red on their new SUVs is beautiful.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I think "dogs like trucks" was better.

What trucks?

[giant_mtb]

What trucks?

https://youtu.be/_aYZrvG5BkY

[Eye of the Tiger]

https://youtu.be/_aYZrvG5BkY

Oh, i thought it was Mæzda. Fuck Nissan to hell and back, then back again

[giant_mtb]

Oh, i thought it was Mæzda. Fuck Nissan to hell and back, then back again

Yeah I had to Google it, I was confused as well.

[MrH]

I think the internet trope of "I'm so much smarter than everyone else because I bought a Mazda" is part of the reason why I've been not posting online about cars so much anymore. Mazda has real issues and there's a reason why they're ignored by most enthusiasts and regular buyers, save for a couple models (Miata)



Part of it is tribalism - Honda guys are only gonna buy Hondas. But some of it is the fact there are numerous parts and upgrades out for basically any Honda motor ever. What Mazda motor have they ever made that was worth a damn? The old 1.8L from the NA and NB? That 2.3L MZR is a dumpy motor, and it's a trope on basically all Mazdaspeed forums that pretty much all of the damn things have spun a bearing or snapped a connecting rod.

It's also annoying that so many people think that "not as good" is equal to "bad". Mazda does make sharp driving, nice looking cars.

But you know what? Honda, Toyota, Hyundai and Kia make cars that are about as good for most people, at a more reasonable price.


Also, although the Mazda 3 starts at around 22k, the vast majority of cars on the lot are much more than that! It's performance numbers are also mediocre, and so is its fuel economy.

FWIW, I can get a brand new Kia Forte manual for just under 14k. (Albeit incentivized) Is it as nice of a car as the Mazda? No. But it's still pretty damn good, has a stellar warranty, and likely will offer more accommodating financing options as well. And unlike the Mazda 3, it has room inside for real sized people.


The 3 is a flop because it's a badly packaged vehicle that's expensive and doesn't leapfrog it's compact car competition like people say it does.

It's a $50k interior, a mediocre engine, and too tight inside.

Most people will take a Civic for cheaper, more space, and faster.

You guys are acting like Mazda is going to file for bankruptcy tomorrow.  They're fine.

[Xer0]

Its like a backwards GM; instead of a shit interior with a very competent chassis, you have mediocre vehicle packaging and mechanicals with a great interior.

[12,000 RPM]

They are def doing better globally than in the US so maybe things aren't that bad. But we will see the 2019 numbers

[2o6]

They are def doing better globally than in the US so maybe things aren't that bad. But we will see the 2019 numbers

Uh, are they doing well globally?

[12,000 RPM]

Uh, are they doing well globally?

As of last year things weren't too bad, but I will need to see how things went in China. They have 4 big markets- here, China, Europe and Japan... I'm pretty sure 3 of those 4 are down this year

[HurricaneSteve]

I have to ask, what's so mediocre about the 2.5L motor? It has quite a bit more torque than an NA 2.0L. In day to day driving it is just as tractable as the Honda 1.5T and will likely be more reliable in the long run (I'm still not sold on small displacement turbos). They do need to add a turbo for the upper level trims but as a standard engine, do any of its competitors have a non-turbo engine that's better?

It's a $50k interior, a mediocre engine, and too tight inside.

Most people will take a Civic for cheaper, more space, and faster.

You guys are acting like Mazda is going to file for bankruptcy tomorrow.  They're fine.

[HurricaneSteve]

Global sales were 1.6 million in 2018.

As of last year things weren't too bad, but I will need to see how things went in China. They have 4 big markets- here, China, Europe and Japan... I'm pretty sure 3 of those 4 are down this year

[AutobahnSHO]

part of Mazda's woes is that Subaru jumped up in the "little bit different" category. Nothing but upwards sales since 2008 I believe?