From our own BMWDave:
http://www.carspin.net/content/archive/200..._based_jeep.php (http://www.carspin.net/content/archive/2005_08_15_car_based_jeep.php)
Good article, Dave. I don't like seeing Jeep "sell out" either. But it's all about the dollars and cents. If these car based vehicles will generate interest and income, you can't blame Jeep for taking advantage of that. As long as they keep the Wrangler genuine I can't complain too much.
What worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
Quote
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
The reality is most people don't buy Jeeps for their offroad ability. People think Jeeps are "cute." Others want something that is "good in snow."
QuoteGood article, Dave. I don't like seeing Jeep "sell out" either. But it's all about the dollars and cents. If these car based vehicles will generate interest and income, you can't blame Jeep for taking advantage of that. As long as they keep the Wrangler genuine I can't complain too much.
Thank you :)
QuoteQuote
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
The reality is most people don't buy Jeeps for their offroad ability. People think Jeeps are "cute." Others want something that is "good in snow."
But those same people could and probably would buy the same car-based model from the Chrysler or Dodge lineups, so consumers who actually do want some off-road ability can stick with Jeep.
QuoteGood article, Dave. I don't like seeing Jeep "sell out" either. But it's all about the dollars and cents. If these car based vehicles will generate interest and income, you can't blame Jeep for taking advantage of that. As long as they keep the Wrangler genuine I can't complain too much.
If its all about dollars and cents, then Chrysler and Dodge can pick that up, if indeeed Chrysler wants more profit. But marketing them through Jeep is the wrong answer...if they market them through other brands, they bring in the additional revenue of providing very attractive car based utes, without carrying the Jeep Moniker.
QuoteQuoteGood article, Dave. I don't like seeing Jeep "sell out" either. But it's all about the dollars and cents. If these car based vehicles will generate interest and income, you can't blame Jeep for taking advantage of that. As long as they keep the Wrangler genuine I can't complain too much.
If its all about dollars and cents, then Chrysler and Dodge can pick that up, if indeeed Chrysler wants more profit. But marketing them through Jeep is the wrong answer...if they market them through other brands, they bring in the additional revenue of providing very attractive car based utes, without carrying the Jeep Moniker.
Don't give them ideas. <_<
Coming in 2008: the Pacifica-based Jeep Moniker!
QuoteQuoteQuoteGood article, Dave.? I don't like seeing Jeep "sell out" either.? But it's all about the dollars and cents.? If these car based vehicles will generate interest and income, you can't blame Jeep for taking advantage of that.? As long as they keep the Wrangler genuine I can't complain too much.
If its all about dollars and cents, then Chrysler and Dodge can pick that up, if indeeed Chrysler wants more profit. But marketing them through Jeep is the wrong answer...if they market them through other brands, they bring in the additional revenue of providing very attractive car based utes, without carrying the Jeep Moniker.
Don't give them ideas. <_<
Coming in 2008: the Pacifica-based Jeep Moniker!
:D
QuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
QuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
They can go the Land Rover way...you dont have to sacrifice everything you stand for just to make a ute accepted by the mainstream buyers.
And like I said, if Chrysler is so worried about money, then they can introduce these vehicles under Dodge and Chrysler names, make the same money, and thus keep the Jeep name true.
Good read, Bob. :) But sad story. :(
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
They can go the Land Rover way...you dont have to sacrifice everything you stand for just to make a ute accepted by the mainstream buyers.
And like I said, if Chrysler is so worried about money, then they can introduce these vehicles under Dodge and Chrysler names, make the same money, and thus keep the Jeep name true.
And Land Rovers are really expensive too! The Jeep buyer and Land Rover buyer are quite different.
I think Jeep knows the market is shifting to car-based crossovers and they want to keep their profits up.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
They can go the Land Rover way...you dont have to sacrifice everything you stand for just to make a ute accepted by the mainstream buyers.
And like I said, if Chrysler is so worried about money, then they can introduce these vehicles under Dodge and Chrysler names, make the same money, and thus keep the Jeep name true.
And Land Rovers are really expensive too! The Jeep buyer and Land Rover buyer are quite different.
I think Jeep knows the market is shifting to car-based crossovers and they want to keep their profits up.
Hmm...the market is also shifting toward fast cars...should Jeep produce those as well?
Jeep is an off road manufacturer, and should not follow whimsical trends in the automotive market. If they do that, they become like any other car maker and lose their heritage.
I'm not supporting what they did, I'm just saying it makes sense.
They are a business you know.
Sure, I'd like Nissan to build a no frills Z-car with no power windows, no power steering, low slung styling, a turbocharged straight six, and a curb weight under 2800 lbs. But, it ain't gonna happen.
QuoteI'm not supporting what they did, I'm just saying it makes sense.
They are a business you know.
Sure, I'd like Nissan to build a no frills Z-car with no power windows, no power steering, low slung styling, a turbocharged straight six, and a curb weight under 2800 lbs. But, it ain't gonna happen.
Theyre not exactly dying, you know ;) And like I said, they can use a platform design similar to LR's if they really wish to compete both on road and off. But simply throwing away everything Jeep stands for is not a smart move, let alone a business one. These crossovers would be better suited to Dodge or Chrysler.
"Land Rover is similar automaker with a history and heritage as rich as the one Jeep has. Land Rover has recently expanded their product line with more "on-road" oriented vehicles. But I am not worried about Land Rover losing its heritage, simply because those vehicles are extremely capable off road. Land Rover spent over a billion dollars to develop the platform for the new LR3 and Range Rover Sport, making them on and off road vehicles at the same time. A similar platform is needed for Jeep, should they wish to continue to expand their product line;"
(http://temp.corvetteforum.net/bss/nomad/spock_huh.jpg)
The new Disco and Range Rover are not "extremely capable offroad". They're even more weaksauce than Libby and Grand Cherokee. Sorry Dave, I don't mean to be a dick, but this paragraph is BS Land Rover fanboy crap. Land Rover sold its soul to the devil when the Freelander came out.
And the new Land Rover chassis is a fairly blatant copy of the Jeep UniFrame.
Great article bob, except for the one paragraph that JC pointed out above.
I agreed with everything else.
Hardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
But my point is not to argue about how good Land Rovers are...the point is that they perform very well off road, and now, on road as well. And that has kept their heritage alive, while providing them with extra revenue.
I was suggesting Jeep should try a similar idea.
But that was not the main point of the article...do you think car based crossovers are the right idea for Jeep at the moment?
QuoteGreat article bob, except for the one paragraph that JC pointed out above.
I agreed with everything else.
Thank you :)
QuoteBut that was not the main point of the article...do you think car based crossovers are the right idea for Jeep at the moment?
Of course not. I thought the KJ, WK and XK were all stupid ideas.
QuoteQuoteI'm not supporting what they did, I'm just saying it makes sense.
They are a business you know.
Sure, I'd like Nissan to build a no frills Z-car with no power windows, no power steering, low slung styling, a turbocharged straight six, and a curb weight under 2800 lbs. But, it ain't gonna happen.
Theyre not exactly dying, you know ;)
And why do you suppose that is? Why it's the push-over soccer mommy mobiles they currently sell, of course!
QuoteQuoteQuoteI'm not supporting what they did, I'm just saying it makes sense.
They are a business you know.
Sure, I'd like Nissan to build a no frills Z-car with no power windows, no power steering, low slung styling, a turbocharged straight six, and a curb weight under 2800 lbs. But, it ain't gonna happen.
Theyre not exactly dying, you know ;)
And why do you suppose that is? Why it's the push-over soccer mommy mobiles they currently sell, of course!
What push over soccer mommy cars do they sell at the moment? The Liberty may be cute, but its still a tough ute. So is the JGC and the Wranger.
QuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
No they're not.
QuoteBut my point is not to argue about how good Land Rovers are... the point is that they perform very well off road, and now, on road as well. And that has kept their heritage alive, while providing them with extra revenue.
I suppose they did keep their heritage alive: a heritage of duping rich people with too much money for their own good into believing they could go on safari.
QuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
'Bout as serious as a Liberty or WK Grand Cherokee, which isn't very serious at all.
Actually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
QuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
Chrysler and Dodge can sell soft utes without alienating anybody, but Jeep can't.
QuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
Then, once all the older jeeps are gone, what the hell will people off road with?
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
Then, once all the older jeeps are gone, what the hell will people off road with?
They aren't going anywhere.
By the time they all decay and rot, we won't have any fossil fuels left. :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
Then, once all the older jeeps are gone, what the hell will people off road with?
They aren't going anywhere.
By the time they all decay and rot, we won't have any fossil fuels left. :lol:
no, everyone who wants a jeep will by the real jeeps, and then they'll all be gone.
Jeep better get working on a good electric motor too.
QuoteJeep better get working on a good electric motor too.
why?
QuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
QuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
No they're not.
They are serious off roaders, and can traverse considerably rough terrain, but no, they arent the pumped up Wranglers that you see climbing 5 foot rocks in Baja
QuoteBut my point is not to argue about how good Land Rovers are... the point is that they perform very well off road, and now, on road as well. And that has kept their heritage alive, while providing them with extra revenue.
I suppose they did keep their heritage alive: a heritage of duping rich people with too much money for their own good into believing they could go on safari.
An ignorant statement, one spoken with either jealousy, or some other bias.QuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
'Bout as serious as a Liberty or WK Grand Cherokee, which isn't very serious at all.
Serious enough...they can still off road, they just may not offroad to your standard of a pumped up Wrangler. And a car based ute wont even come close to the current Jeep levels of off roadness.
QuoteQuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
Yet it is almost entirely accurate.
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhat worries me now is the liklihood that the new car-based Jeeps will sell well. They'll have a Jeep look with car-comfort, which consumers probably wil respond to. The Patriot and Compass will probably be only the first of many sales-successful car-based Jeeps.
They definitely belong to Dodge and Chrysler.
They need to make money guys. :rolleyes: Why should it matter to Jeep what we think? You can't sell crude off-roaders just to appease a small portion of the market.
How many people go rock-climbing in a brand new Jeep anyway?! Just get an older Jeep for that. They're simpler, cheaper, and tougher.
Chrysler and Dodge can sell soft utes without alienating anybody, but Jeep can't.
Exactly.
The total purists may argue that the Liberty and Grand Cherokee aren't enough either, but they're better off-road than their competitors, which the car-based SUVs could never claim.
QuoteQuoteQuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
Yet it is almost entirely accurate.
One who is a car savvy enthusiast doesnt generalize like that...
"Hey, everyone who buys an F-150 is some farm dwelling redneck" :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
Yet it is almost entirely accurate.
One who is a car savvy enthusiast doesnt generalize like that...
"Hey, everyone who buys an F-150 is some farm dwelling redneck" :rolleyes:
You're quite clearly blindly biased when it comes to Land Rovers, people don't buy them to go offroad, they buy them to impress their friends.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
Yet it is almost entirely accurate.
One who is a car savvy enthusiast doesnt generalize like that...
"Hey, everyone who buys an F-150 is some farm dwelling redneck" :rolleyes:
You're quite clearly blindly biased when it comes to Land Rovers, people don't buy them to go offroad, they buy them to impress their friends.
I believe more Land Rover owners, percentage wise, take their cars off road than any other company. So much for your blind generalizations.
I am sure many Land Rover owners take their vehicles offroad on the way to the ski lodge, but you are deceiving yourself if you think more Land Rovers do real offroading than Jeep or even Toyota owners (4runner/Land Cruiser/Tacoma) do.
QuoteI am sure many Land Rover owners take their vehicles offroad on the way to the ski lodge, but you are deceiving yourself if you think more Land Rovers do real offroading than Jeep or even Toyota owners (4runner/Land Cruiser/Tacoma) do.
Land Rovers are a lot more rare than Jeeps, so thats a insignifacnt statement, even if you could prove it was true.
I was refering to percentages. And throw in Pathfinder/Xterra owners in there too.
QuoteI was refering to percentages. And throw in Pathfinder/Xterra owners in there too.
Well, you cant just make speculative statements like that. Check out this statistic from the Auto Channel:
"Established in 1996, in Manchester, VT, in order to teach ordinary folks how to handle rough terrain, treacherous conditions and off-roading, it?s open virtually all-year and has had over 8,000 people through it?s doors.
Interestingly, although only 14% of SUV users admit to taking their vehicles off the tarmac, around 40% of Land Rover owners take the road less traveled. (FYI, the schools are also open in other US locales, South Africa, the UK and are coming soon to Central and South America.)"
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2002/08/04/144989.html)
Once again, what does "road less traveled" mean? And, the language there hardly indicates that a survey took place and offroad courses at dealers don't count either.
One more thing, the 14% number includes vehicles clearly not designed for offroad use and therefore isn't accurate.
And heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
All right, so find me a statistic that more Tacoma or Xterra owners take their vehicles off road than Land Rover owners.
"Jeep says some 60 percent of owners of its World War II-style Wrangler account for most Jeep off-road use, but 45 percent of Jeep Liberty owners do the same thing. Almost 25 percent of Grand Cherokee owners go off road."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka...rand%20Cherokee (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Jeep&model=Grand%20Cherokee)
And Jeep dealerships don't have offroad courses, so you know most of those people made a special effort to take their suvs offroad, something that likely isn't true of Land Rover owners.
Quote"Jeep says some 60 percent of owners of its World War II-style Wrangler account for most Jeep off-road use, but 45 percent of Jeep Liberty owners do the same thing. Almost 25 percent of Grand Cherokee owners go off road."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka...rand%20Cherokee (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Jeep&model=Grand%20Cherokee)
And Jeep dealerships don't have offroad courses, so you know most of those people made a special effort to take their suvs offroad, something that likely isn't true of Land Rover owners.
So instead of giving me the percentage of one model, give me the percentage of the whole brand. I can assure you that Land Rover Defender owners also, in the majority, take their vehicles off road.
And as for your second argument...pure bullshit. Land Rover making it easier to offroad just weakens your argument...it shows that its a more off road oriented brand, according to that logic.
And once again, find me a statistic to back up your statement that more Tacoma/Xterra owners take their cars off the road than land Rover owners.
QuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
QuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
QuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
38 percent is still an F. :lol:
QuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
38 percent is still an F. :lol:
:D
QuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
Well, first of all, your statistics are all coming from Land Rover press releases, without any indication of what organization conducted the research. And what does "industry average" mean? There is no clue. It could be the whole industry, meaning car-owners as well. Maybe just SUV-owners, but would that include car-based SUVs? What qualifies as of-roading? Unpaved roads on the way to the stables?
No way to tell.
So the statistics are great press release padding, but objectively meaningless without context.
Though I would tend to agree with your assumption. I doubt many Defenders find themselves with road only duty, unlike many Wranglers I've known. I think the Range Rover and Discovery/LR3 are completely different matters.
QuoteQuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
Which other statistic?
QuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
Well, first of all, your statistics are all coming from Land Rover press releases, without any indication of what organization conducted the research. And what does "industry average" mean? There is no clue. It could be the whole industry, meaning car-owners as well. Maybe just SUV-owners, but would that include car-based SUVs? What qualifies as of-roading? Unpaved roads on the way to the stables?
No way to tell.
So the statistics are great press release padding, but objectively meaningless without context.
Though I would tend to agree with your assumption. I doubt many Defenders find themselves with road only duty, unlike many Wranglers I've known. I think the Range Rover and Discovery/LR3 are completely different matters.
I agree, more Range Rover/LR3 owners will stay on road than off with their vehicles, but objectively speaking, Land Rover vehicles as a whole go off road more than other vehicles.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
Which other statistic?
It might be on page one :)
QuoteQuote"Jeep says some 60 percent of owners of its World War II-style Wrangler account for most Jeep off-road use, but 45 percent of Jeep Liberty owners do the same thing. Almost 25 percent of Grand Cherokee owners go off road."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka...rand%20Cherokee (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Jeep&model=Grand%20Cherokee)
And Jeep dealerships don't have offroad courses, so you know most of those people made a special effort to take their suvs offroad, something that likely isn't true of Land Rover owners.
So instead of giving me the percentage of one model, give me the percentage of the whole brand. I can assure you that Land Rover Defender owners also, in the majority, take their vehicles off road.
And as for your second argument...pure bullshit. Land Rover making it easier to offroad just weakens your argument...it shows that its a more off road oriented brand, according to that logic.
And once again, find me a statistic to back up your statement that more Tacoma/Xterra owners take their cars off the road than land Rover owners.
You didn't give me a specific percentage of each model so why should I? Besides. I did give you the stats for each model anyway. :rolleyes:
Okay, the brand is more offroad oriented, but we aren't arguing about that, we're arguing about the owners.
Can't find stats on the Xterra or Tacoma, but I am 99.99% positive that more Xterra owners make a dedicated effort to go offroading than LR owners do and am about 75% sure that is the case with the Tacoma.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
Which other statistic?
It might be on page one :)
The only statistic I found was that 40% of LR owners "take the road less travelled" compared to an average of 14% for all SUVs. All it says is that they are above average, not that they're the highest above average.
QuoteQuote"Jeep says some 60 percent of owners of its World War II-style Wrangler account for most Jeep off-road use, but 45 percent of Jeep Liberty owners do the same thing. Almost 25 percent of Grand Cherokee owners go off road."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka...rand%20Cherokee (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Jeep&model=Grand%20Cherokee)
And Jeep dealerships don't have offroad courses, so you know most of those people made a special effort to take their suvs offroad, something that likely isn't true of Land Rover owners.
So instead of giving me the percentage of one model, give me the percentage of the whole brand. I can assure you that Land Rover Defender owners also, in the majority, take their vehicles off road.
And as for your second argument...pure bullshit. Land Rover making it easier to offroad just weakens your argument...it shows that its a more off road oriented brand, according to that logic.
And once again, find me a statistic to back up your statement that more Tacoma/Xterra owners take their cars off the road than land Rover owners.
You didn't give me a specific percentage of each model so why should I? Besides. I did give you the stats for each model anyway. :rolleyes:
Um, that was precisely my point. I wanted statistics for the brand as a whole, not for individual models. Okay, the brand is more offroad oriented, but we aren't arguing about that, we're arguing about the owners.
Its not up to you to decide Land Rover owners are lazy and only go offroad because they have courses...the fact is that more go offroad in LandRovers, so that should say something about the status of the owners as well.Can't find stats on the Xterra or Tacoma, but I am 99.99% positive that more Xterra owners make a dedicated effort to go offroading than LR owners do and am about 75% sure that is the case with the Tacoma.
Youre being 99.9 or 75 percent sure does nothing for me, and its a made up fact until you can find proof of it.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
Which other statistic?
It might be on page one :)
The only statistic I found was that 40% of LR owners "take the road less travelled" compared to an average of 14% for all SUVs. All it says is that they are above average, not that they're the highest above average.
Here is another statistic:
"Fast forward some 50 years to a place where soccer moms and yuppies have vested the Land Rover brand with snobbery, and the cars evoke the urban jungle more than the outback. Although experts say Land Rover owners are statistically more likely to offroad, there is a perception that this brand?s pampered drivers would never willingly leave the pavement."
Link (http://www.brentwoodmagazine.com/media-3/Jan-Feb-04/adventure.shtml)
QuoteQuoteQuote"Jeep says some 60 percent of owners of its World War II-style Wrangler account for most Jeep off-road use, but 45 percent of Jeep Liberty owners do the same thing. Almost 25 percent of Grand Cherokee owners go off road."
http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka...rand%20Cherokee (http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/jedlicka.aspx?make=Jeep&model=Grand%20Cherokee)
And Jeep dealerships don't have offroad courses, so you know most of those people made a special effort to take their suvs offroad, something that likely isn't true of Land Rover owners.
So instead of giving me the percentage of one model, give me the percentage of the whole brand. I can assure you that Land Rover Defender owners also, in the majority, take their vehicles off road.
And as for your second argument...pure bullshit. Land Rover making it easier to offroad just weakens your argument...it shows that its a more off road oriented brand, according to that logic.
And once again, find me a statistic to back up your statement that more Tacoma/Xterra owners take their cars off the road than land Rover owners.
You didn't give me a specific percentage of each model so why should I? Besides. I did give you the stats for each model anyway. :rolleyes:
Um, that was precisely my point. I wanted statistics for the brand as a whole, not for individual models.
Okay, the brand is more offroad oriented, but we aren't arguing about that, we're arguing about the owners.
Its not up to you to decide Land Rover owners are lazy and only go offroad because they have courses...the fact is that more go offroad in LandRovers, so that should say something about the status of the owners as well.
Can't find stats on the Xterra or Tacoma, but I am 99.99% positive that more Xterra owners make a dedicated effort to go offroading than LR owners do and am about 75% sure that is the case with the Tacoma.
Youre being 99.9 or 75 percent sure does nothing for me, and its a made up fact until you can find proof of it.
Oops, didn't read very carefully, however, it is pretty easy to concluded that if Jeep's best selling vehicles have percentages above that of LR than as a brand a higher percentage of the owners offroad.
If you really think that the people that go offroad on LR dealer courses would go offroad without them than you need a reality check. No serious offroader goes offroading in the middle of a city at a luxury car dealership.
I am looking.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteAnd heres another statistic:
"Research indicates that over 38 percent of Land Rover owners use their vehicles off-road, far higher than the industry average. "
Link (http://www.theautochannel.com/news/press/date/19990105/press002096.html)
So they're above average? Almost half of their competitors are also above average. The other half are below average. That's how averages work. ;)
Check the other statistic. I knew you would say something like that :lol:
Which other statistic?
It might be on page one :)
The only statistic I found was that 40% of LR owners "take the road less travelled" compared to an average of 14% for all SUVs. All it says is that they are above average, not that they're the highest above average.
Here is another statistic:
"Fast forward some 50 years to a place where soccer moms and yuppies have vested the Land Rover brand with snobbery, and the cars evoke the urban jungle more than the outback. Although experts say Land Rover owners are statistically more likely to offroad, there is a perception that this brand?s pampered drivers would never willingly leave the pavement."
Link (http://www.brentwoodmagazine.com/media-3/Jan-Feb-04/adventure.shtml)
Another vague statement. More likely than WHAT to go off road? Than a Camry? Than a Highlander? Than the average vehicle? Than the average SUV? Any other vehicle? Any other brand? The average brand? Need I go on?
Oops, didn't read very carefully, however, it is pretty easy to concluded that if Jeep's best selling vehicles have percentages above that of LR than as a brand a higher percentage of the owners offroad.
There is no way to determine that, and you must provide statistics. And one vehicle that has a high percentage of being taken off road is dragged down by two other family vehicles that are taken off road far less often.
If you really think that the people that go offroad on LR dealer courses would go offroad without them than you need a reality check. No serious offroader goes offroading in the middle of a city at a luxury car dealership.
I have no idea if Land Rover owners would offroad without the courses...but saying that Jeep is more off road oriented because they dont have dealer courses is hogwash.
I am looking.
All right :)
"There is no way to determine that, and you must provide statistics. And one vehicle that has a high percentage of being taken off road is dragged down by two other family vehicles that are taken off road far less often."
I really thought you were smarter than this. Yes, the GC's number is a little low but the Liberty's number is still higher than that of all LRs and the Cherokee's was probably even higher!
"I have no idea if Land Rover owners would offroad without the courses...but saying that Jeep is more off road oriented because they dont have dealer courses is hogwash."
Now when did I say that? I simply said that Land Rover owners aren't very offroad oriented, not that the brand itself isn't. And, the 38% number includes all Land Rovers, not just the ones made in the past few years which are much, much less likely to be taken offroad. If you can find me a new Range Rover owner who regularly takes his/her vehicle offroad at somewhere other than the dealership and I will be impressed.
Quote"There is no way to determine that, and you must provide statistics. And one vehicle that has a high percentage of being taken off road is dragged down by two other family vehicles that are taken off road far less often."
I really thought you were smarter than this. Yes, the GC's number is a little low but the Liberty's number is still higher than that of all LRs and the Cherokee's was probably even higher!
"I have no idea if Land Rover owners would offroad without the courses...but saying that Jeep is more off road oriented because they dont have dealer courses is hogwash."
Now when did I say that? I simply said that Land Rover owners aren't very offroad oriented, not that the brand itself isn't. And, the 38% number includes all Land Rovers, not just the ones made in the past few years which are much, much less likely to be taken offroad. If you can find me a new Range Rover owner who regularly takes his/her vehicle offroad at somewhere other than the dealership and I will be impressed.
I dont understand what you have against a owner taking their car off road at a dealership. I hope you realize that the dealer sponsors events, where you go to Virginia, or Vermont...its not like they take you through a bathtub in the backyard of the dealer :D
"I dont understand what you have against a owner taking their car off road at a dealership. I hope you realize that the dealer sponsors events, where you go to Virginia, or Vermont...its not like they take you through a bathtub in the backyard of the dealer"
I don't have anything against it, but you can't compare offroading at a LR dealership to taking your Jeep on a dedicated offroad journey.
Quote"I dont understand what you have against a owner taking their car off road at a dealership. I hope you realize that the dealer sponsors events, where you go to Virginia, or Vermont...its not like they take you through a bathtub in the backyard of the dealer"
I don't have anything against it, but you can't compare offroading at a LR dealership to taking your Jeep on a dedicated offroad journey.
Oh my god...need I repeat myself...they dont go offroading at the dealership...they go through some pretty rough terrain at off road trails such as one in Vermont, Virginia, at the Equinox, and through Baja.
yes, I saw that. But the dealerships do have offroad courses, and that is likely the onle place where most owners of newer LRs take their vehicles offroad.
QuoteQuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
No they're not.
They are serious off roaders, and can traverse considerably rough terrain, but no, they arent the pumped up Wranglers that you see climbing 5 foot rocks in Baja
They aren't serious offroaders.
QuoteBut my point is not to argue about how good Land Rovers are... the point is that they perform very well off road, and now, on road as well. And that has kept their heritage alive, while providing them with extra revenue.
I suppose they did keep their heritage alive: a heritage of duping rich people with too much money for their own good into believing they could go on safari.
An ignorant statement, one spoken with either jealousy, or some other bias.
It's not my fault it's true.
QuoteHardly. The platform itself is capable...give them some tires, and they are serious off road performers.
'Bout as serious as a Liberty or WK Grand Cherokee, which isn't very serious at all.
Serious enough...they can still off road, they just may not offroad to your standard of a pumped up Wrangler. And a car based ute wont even come close to the current Jeep levels of off roadness.
No, they can't. I guess I'm going to have to repeat myself until I get it through to you: Land Rovers (Range Rover, Discovery/LR3 and Freelander) are useless in any situation more taxing than a dirt road. Liberties and Grand Cherokees are too. I'm sorry if this happens to shatter your fanboyish precepts, but it's true. So is the fact that Land Rover caters to the rich. So is the fact that Land Rover's offroading statistics are egregiously overinflated by the dealer-sponsored offroad schools, designed around the various retreats and country clubs they're hosted at rather than the offroading of the vehicles themselves.
Like I said, Land Rover have a history of duping the rich into believing they could go on safari in a Land Rover.
Dave, you have been duped.
Quoteyes, I saw that. But the dealerships do have offroad courses, and that is likely the onle place where most owners of newer LRs take their vehicles offroad.
Once again, you can not back up that statement, and the simpe fact that a lot of dealerships dont have any sembelance of a course. Almost every single one I've checked online organizes trips to off road courses, and the three that I have experience with dont have any off road course.
What can I say, 93JC...to say that Land Rovers are good for nothing more than a dirt road is foolish...
(http://digilander.libero.it/EndRoad/immagini/varie/Land%20Rover%20discovery%20blu.jpg)
thats a very nice dirt road :rolleyes: :lol:
QuoteQuoteActually, Land Rover doesn't need to really keep it's heritage alive. They're all bought by uber rich snobs who don't take them off road. Jeep needs to keep their heritage and off road performance, as Liberty and Wrangler and other owners do off road quite a bit.
One of the stupidest statements I've heard in a long time.
Seems like some others agree with me...
'Kay now I'm confused...
Are you being serious, or are you using the chopped photo as a joke?
Quote
Dave, you have been duped.
:lol: :lol:
QuoteWhat can I say, 93JC...to say that Land Rovers are good for nothing more than a dirt road is foolish...
(http://digilander.libero.it/EndRoad/immagini/varie/Land%20Rover%20discovery%20blu.jpg)
thats a very nice dirt road :rolleyes: :lol:
That just proves that LR has a poor navigation system. :P
QuoteQuoteWhat can I say, 93JC...to say that Land Rovers are good for nothing more than a dirt road is foolish...
(http://digilander.libero.it/EndRoad/immagini/varie/Land%20Rover%20discovery%20blu.jpg)
thats a very nice dirt road :rolleyes: :lol:
That just proves that LR has a poor navigation system. :P
:D
I can find lots of Land Rover Pictures off road:
(http://www.britishpacific.com/landroverparts/offrd_pictures/arbDisco.jpg)
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/8/web/344000-344999/344386_11_full.jpg)
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/11/web/707000-707999/707844_69_full.jpg)
(http://www.petersandmay.com/siteimages/large/Land-Rover-2.jpg)
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/370000-370999/370866_1_full.jpg)
(http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/370000-370999/370866_4_full.jpg)
Land Rovers are only made for smooth dirt roads.... :rolleyes:
Quote(http://www.petersandmay.com/siteimages/large/Land-Rover-2.jpg)
The only Disco that looks like it's doing well.
QuoteQuote(http://www.petersandmay.com/siteimages/large/Land-Rover-2.jpg)
The only Disco that looks like it's doing well.
Whatever you say...
Though LR is more of a status symbol here in the good old US, I would believe many people in other countries who live in an area where offroad travel is necessary use Land Rovers, though more in standard or work package form.
QuoteThough LR is more of a status symbol here in the good old US, I would believe many people in other countries who live in an area where offroad travel is necessary use Land Rovers, though more in standard or work package form.
Correct...they are used a lot more..I've been abroad, and they do take then for "light off roading" almost everyday.
QuoteQuoteQuote(http://www.petersandmay.com/siteimages/large/Land-Rover-2.jpg)
The only Disco that looks like it's doing well.
Whatever you say...
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/295/arbdisco0dp.jpg)
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/9223/34438611full4wy.jpg)
(http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/7813/3708664full0io.jpg)
These pictures are taken at random times...I could bring you tons of pictures of Jeeps that "arent doing well".
But your original statement was the Land Rovers can only go on smooth dirt roads...
I have no doubt you could find a picture of a Jeep doing very poorly offroad. Doesn't change the fact that Land Rovers (new ones in particular) are awful in any offroad situation more taxing than a dirt road.
(and I don't know where you got "smooth" dirt road from)
QuoteI have no doubt you could find a picture of a Jeep doing very poorly offroad. Doesn't change the fact that Land Rovers (new ones in particular) are awful in any offroad situation more taxing than a dirt road.
(and I don't know where you got "smooth" dirt road from)
Whatever...this thread was about Jeep's new direction, not how good or badly Land Rovers can offroad...so lets just have out respective opinions, and thats that :)
QuoteWhatever...this thread was about Jeep's new direction, not how good or badly Land Rovers can offroad...so lets just have out respective opinions, and thats that :)
You sure this thread is about Jeep's "new direction"? After all, you are the one who wrote the article, in which you stated Jeep should be more like Land Rover. You yanked Land Rover into it, not me. I just called you on the bullshit.
Two last questions: what makes you think the Range Rover/LR3 platform should be emulated by Jeep, and what makes you think the Range Rover/LR3 platform isn't a blatant copy of UniFrame in the first place?
QuoteQuote(http://www.petersandmay.com/siteimages/large/Land-Rover-2.jpg)
The only Disco that looks like it's doing well.
It is also the only disco that is less than 3 years old.
QuoteQuoteWhatever...this thread was about Jeep's new direction, not how good or badly Land Rovers can offroad...so lets just have out respective opinions, and thats that :)
You sure this thread is about Jeep's "new direction"? After all, you are the one who wrote the article, in which you stated Jeep should be more like Land Rover. You yanked Land Rover into it, not me. I just called you on the bullshit.
Two last questions: what makes you think the Range Rover/LR3 platform should be emulated by Jeep, and what makes you think the Range Rover/LR3 platform isn't a blatant copy of UniFrame in the first place?
I merely brought LR in as an example, and you turned it into a whole thread about how Land Rovers suck ass off road, etc. etc.
I said the overall idea of the platform should be used, meaning that Jeep should produce vehicles that are on road oriented, but that can still offroad.
And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes.
"And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes."
They already do, it is called the Grand Cherokee.
QuoteI merely brought LR in as an example, and you turned it into a whole thread about how Land Rovers suck ass off road, etc. etc.
I said the overall idea of the platform should be used, meaning that Jeep should produce vehicles that are on road oriented, but that can still offroad.
And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes.
You brought in Land Rover as an example. Your example sucked ass, because Land Rovers suck ass offroad.
The overall idea of the platform is a copy of UniFrame: the ability to perform well both on-road and off using a unibody chassis combined with a ladder frame. Jeeps have been using UniFrame since 1983. Land Rover copied it two decades later. Whoop-dee-flippin'-doo.
Quote"And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes."
They already do, it is called the Grand Cherokee.
And I said that they should make their new cars on such platforms, instead of basing them off of cars.
QuoteQuoteI merely brought LR in as an example, and you turned it into a whole thread about how Land Rovers suck ass off road, etc. etc.
I said the overall idea of the platform should be used, meaning that Jeep should produce vehicles that are on road oriented, but that can still offroad.
And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes.
You brought in Land Rover as an example. Your example sucked ass, because Land Rovers suck ass offroad.
The overall idea of the platform is a copy of UniFrame: the ability to perform well both on-road and off using a unibody chassis combined with a ladder frame. Jeeps have been using UniFrame since 1983. Land Rover copied it two decades later. Whoop-dee-flippin'-doo.
This is going nowhere...Land Rovers obviously dont suck ass off road, and neither do Jeeps.
QuoteQuote"And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes."
They already do, it is called the Grand Cherokee.
And I said that they should make their new cars on such platforms, instead of basing them off of cars.
So why didn't you say they should stick with the status quo?
You inserted Land Rover fanboy bullshit.
QuoteQuoteQuote"And here you go bringing in an entirely different topic..I never said anything about about Uniframe or Land Rover copying it...all I said was that Jeep should build vehicles on a similar platform to Land Rovers, thus allowing them to function both on and off road, instead of producing car based utes."
They already do, it is called the Grand Cherokee.
And I said that they should make their new cars on such platforms, instead of basing them off of cars.
So why didn't you say they should stick with the status quo?
You inserted Land Rover fanboy bullshit.
You need to stop cursing, it doesnt propel your point any further :rolleyes:
Its a little different...the T5's frame rails are bolted to the unibody, whereas Jeeps' are welded.
But I wont deny that they are similar.
I like swearing, fuckface. :P :lol: :praise:
So bolting the ladder frame to the unibody will solve all of Jeep's problems... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
I've seen a Liberty offroad. It slid off the road in the snow!
:o
QuoteI like swearing, fuckface. :P :lol: :praise:
So bolting the ladder frame to the unibody will solve all of Jeep's problems... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
No, I said doing that in their new models would avoid them having to make car based utes.
I've gotten some complaints about the level of language in this thread. Tone it down, anything that I find offensive may be deleted outright.
QuoteNo, I said doing that in their new models would avoid them having to make car based utes.
So why didn't you say Jeep should stick with the status quo?
Why, Dave, why? Why are you such a Land Rover fanboy?
QuoteI've gotten some complaints about the level of language in this thread. Tone it down, anything that I find offensive may be deleted outright.
Who? Who?!
I'll straighten 'em out.
QuoteQuoteI've gotten some complaints about the level of language in this thread. Tone it down, anything that I find offensive may be deleted outright.
Who? Who?!
I'll straighten 'em out.
:rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteI've gotten some complaints about the level of language in this thread. Tone it down, anything that I find offensive may be deleted outright.
Who? Who?!
I'll straighten 'em out.
:rolleyes:
So you're the whiney biatch?
My sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
QuoteMy sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
I believe we identified you yesterday, Koko ;)
QuoteMy sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
It's probably you. You probably haven't received any complaints. :praise:
QuoteQuoteMy sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
I believe we identified you yesterday, Koko ;)
Right, forgot about that bit of sleuthing. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteMy sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
It's probably you. You probably haven't received any complaints. :praise:
I can gaurantee that's not the case. ;)
QuoteQuoteMy sources are confidential. And I can't be thrown in jail for keeping it that way, because no one knows who I am. :praise:
I believe we identified you yesterday, Koko ;)
Koko! Ha!
:rolleyes:
Hate to dredge this back up, but...
Dave, talk of the next Freelander being based off the VolvoS40/FordFocus/Mazda3 (C1) platform must be killing you. Because, you know, that's a car platform.
From Automobile: "The future of Land Rover includes a new Freelander that will be based, like the upcoming Volvo XC50, on Ford?s global C1 platform, which underpins the new European Focus."
Though the XC70 is quite competent off-road. Not so much the XC90 though.
How exactly can the XC70 be more capable offroad than the XC90? They are based on the same platform and the XC90 has much more ground clearance! Neither vehicle is very capable offroad, but the XC90 does have the upper hand for sure.
That's what you'd think, but the added weight of the XC90 is detremental to its performance on the rough stuff.
Volvo had a fleet of XC70s in Baja earlier this year for a press promotion (I was down scouting the 1000 course for a corporate sponsor I worked with). I asked the sales lead why they didn't bring the XC90 instead and he said the XC70 required less modification to handle the Baja trails than the XC90 would have.
Don't ask me what the hell that means, I can only convey what I've heard.
Baja is a bit different from typical offroading, in most situations a XC90 would do better than a XC70, but neither one would go very far.
So I am not taking the time to read 6 pages here, but...
From what I read some people argue that these car based SUVs should have just gone Dodge or Chrysler. But they might not have sold as well then. You can sell the exact same car under two brands and they will sell differently. People care about the brand name. Look at the VW Phaeton for example. It is an amazing car, with an awesome interior, good looks, decent power, and a good price tag to boot. It flopped. Why? The VW badge is the problem. If it had been an Audi it would have sold (at least as well as Audis sell at least). Having the Jeep badge on the car means something different than the Dodge badge. That's why Jeep is getting these products instead of other group companies (or possibly in addition to).
Sorry if someone already said this.
This situation is entirely different from the VW/Audi one, the Jeep brand has no more prestige than Chrysler or Dodge, some people might be more attracted to the Jeep brand than they would be to Chrysler but Dodge certainly has just as much of a tough guy image.
QuoteHate to dredge this back up, but...
Dave, talk of the next Freelander being based off the VolvoS40/FordFocus/Mazda3 (C1) platform must be killing you. Because, you know, that's a car platform.
From Automobile: "The future of Land Rover includes a new Freelander that will be based, like the upcoming Volvo XC50, on Ford?s global C1 platform, which underpins the new European Focus."
Though the XC70 is quite competent off-road. Not so much the XC90 though.
It is killing me, dont think I am happy about that in the least bit :angry: :(
QuoteThis situation is entirely different from the VW/Audi one, the Jeep brand has no more prestige than Chrysler or Dodge, some people might be more attracted to the Jeep brand than they would be to Chrysler but Dodge certainly has just as much of a tough guy image.
Well said.
QuoteThis situation is entirely different from the VW/Audi one, the Jeep brand has no more prestige than Chrysler or Dodge, some people might be more attracted to the Jeep brand than they would be to Chrysler but Dodge certainly has just as much of a tough guy image.
I disagree. When one thinks of Jeep SUVs and off roading and toughness is the image. When one thinks of Dodge most people think Viper or Caravan. <_<
(that's in general, everyone has different pictures, but thats what I generally hear when I have had discussions about the brands)
Jeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
QuoteJeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
Exactly, Jeep won't keep their image if they start building a bunch of wimpy suvs. And, when most people think of Dodge they think of Hemis and gigantic crosshair grills, not Caravans.
QuoteQuoteJeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
Exactly, Jeep won't keep their image if they start building a bunch of wimpy suvs. And, when most people think of Dodge they think of Hemis and gigantic crosshair grills, not Caravans.
Now. I used to think "dinky little Neon". Now I think "CHARGER!" Always all capitals, always with an exclamation mark.
QuoteQuoteJeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
Exactly, Jeep won't keep their image if they start building a bunch of wimpy suvs. And, when most people think of Dodge they think of Hemis and gigantic crosshair grills, not Caravans.
I get an image flash of the redneck who adores hemis and scantily clad women. Any other visual thinkers/learners?
QuoteQuoteQuoteJeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
Exactly, Jeep won't keep their image if they start building a bunch of wimpy suvs. And, when most people think of Dodge they think of Hemis and gigantic crosshair grills, not Caravans.
I get an image flash of the redneck who adores hemis and scantily clad women. Any other visual thinkers/learners?
:lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteJeep may not have prestige, but it has an image and a reputation, and those are worth protecting.
Exactly, Jeep won't keep their image if they start building a bunch of wimpy suvs. And, when most people think of Dodge they think of Hemis and gigantic crosshair grills, not Caravans.
I get an image flash of the redneck who adores hemis and scantily clad women. Any other visual thinkers/learners?
I adore Hemis and scantily clad women, though rednecks would sooner hang me than buy me a drink.
I'm not dead set against Jeep expanding there line-up to car based stuff. its only a mistake if they water down the Wrangler, etc. I don't hate the XTerra because Nissan makes the Murano too.
QuoteQuoteThis situation is entirely different from the VW/Audi one, the Jeep brand has no more prestige than Chrysler or Dodge, some people might be more attracted to the Jeep brand than they would be to Chrysler but Dodge certainly has just as much of a tough guy image.
I disagree. When one thinks of Jeep SUVs and off roading and toughness is the image. When one thinks of Dodge most people think Viper or Caravan. <_<
(that's in general, everyone has different pictures, but thats what I generally hear when I have had discussions about the brands)
I think powerful trucks are the latest Dodge image, the Hemi has accomplished that.