Sporty C4 Cactus 1080p video review coming soon. #WatchThisSpace #OooSheQuirky
Ooooo you got one!!!!!
I want one so bad! Even if the engines are super tiny and it prolly needs an extra 35HP for me to consider it.
What do you think?
The one I checked out at the dealer had a super cheap interior. IIRC it didn't have a sun visor on the passenger side and some other content missing. Probably the trim level...
Some oddly cool stuff like the shelf in the dash and a few other things I can't remember right now. I think the cargo area had a few neat details.
So far not bad. Diesel engine is sweet on the highway, but the thing has no tach! Makes slow speed stuff unnerving. I'm gonna save the rest for the video as I think that would be more fun. Hopefully tomorow.
Hopefully you have equally interesting rentals for the other parts of your trip.
Do a compare of the three in a video by splicing it together :lol:
Quote from: Rich on September 14, 2016, 07:49:51 AM
The one I checked out at the dealer had a super cheap interior. IIRC it didn't have a sun visor on the passenger side and some other content missing. Probably the trim level...
Some oddly cool stuff like the shelf in the dash and a few other things I can't remember right now. I think the cargo area had a few neat details.
Cactus is the "budget" line of Citroen.
Please put some of your beats as background music in this video. I really want to hear the sporty accord mixtape. :lol:
Which diesel engine are you experiencing?
(https://s17.postimg.org/4zzjyzllb/Untitled_1.jpg)
Is this RHD?
Quote from: 2o6 on September 14, 2016, 08:46:50 AM
Cactus is the "budget" line of Citroen.
Yeah. It's so awesome looking for being an economy car.
Quote from: Laconian on September 14, 2016, 12:00:53 PM
Is this RHD?
It is.... driving in the UK is actually kind of stressing me out, and part of it is due to the C4. I will explain more in the video. It's probably gonna be Friday though, gotta gather my thoughts.
If it's a manual, have you been slapping the door panel with your hand? :lol:
Damn I can't wait for this. The Cactus is one of the coolest cars on earth.
Can you punch the airpods
Quote from: Rich on September 15, 2016, 04:09:00 AM
If it's a manual, have you been slapping the door panel with your hand? :lol:
Oh god yes, only when I park though.
Everytime I see a Cactus park, I poke at the air pockets. Granted there are not that many, at least not here.
I haven't seen any on the road outside of my rental
I have a bullet list of the good, the bad and the weird... This will be fun :lol:
I did the vid but here are my bullet points:
Good
interior and exterior design
Diesel torque
Fuel economy
Infotainment equipment
Touch point quality
Headlight out put an ad just ability
Trunk space
Seat Comfort
Not good
Diesel sound
Small back seat
Shallow front foot wells
Awkward pedal placement
Bad visibility- high front cowl
Lack of storage space- glove box, cupholders, door pockets, no center console
Shifter- elbow/console interference, hard to find second
Bluetooth reception
Slow infotainment system
Weak stereo
Just weird
Digital dash but no tach
Starts without clutch in gear
Fixed rear windows, no rear HVAC
Wind up seatback like 81 Rabbit Diesel
Driver's side mirror doesn't go wide enough
What is it? Hatchback? Crossover? Seems to combine worst of both
Overall looks good on the surface and has some little charms, but is no better, especially for the US market, than anything I've driven. The Fit rental I had recently for example blows this out of the water in visibility, performance, back seat space and around the cabin storage. Video is 20 minutes long as well, just one long take. I will try and get it up tonighht so prob tomorrow for you guys
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2016, 07:31:55 AM
I did the vid but here are my bullet points:
Just weird
Digital dash but no tach
Starts without clutch in gear
Clutch Interlock is an American thing.
Fixed rear windows, no rear HVAC
To keep costs low. Remember, this thing is actually Ford Focus sized, but priced like a Fiesta
Wind up seatback like 81 Rabbit Diesel
Que? Lots of cheap cars have this.
Driver's side mirror doesn't go wide enough
What is it? Hatchback? Crossover? Seems to combine worst of both
Overall looks good on the surface and has some little charms, but is no better, especially for the US market, than anything I've driven. The Fit rental I had recently for example blows this out of the water in visibility, performance, back seat space and around the cabin storage. Video is 20 minutes long as well, just one long take. I will try and get it up tonighht so prob tomorrow for you guys
Eh, I think that with a better engine, (a nice gas one) can fix a lot of things.
Yea, the Cactus is the "budget" line of Citroen - if you want something nicer and more sophisticated you're supposed to buy a C4. The Cactus offers compact car size with subcompact pricing, and focus on design.
IDK brah... so basically a C segment car for B segment pricing? Or B segment car for A segment pricing? It has to be the latter. If so it makes more sense but I'd rather pay the extra 1K or whatever for a full on B segment car. Plus again the Fit rental I had was much more roomy and practical.... I think it had a D segment size interior front and back (length wise, def narrower)
I'm gonna try and upload the video tonight
Eh, the fit's an anomaly. The Fit beats out a lot of compact cars, and some midsizers in terms of legroom.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 16, 2016, 09:38:05 AM
Eh, the fit's an anomaly. The Fit beats out a lot of compact cars, and some midsizers in terms of legroom.
The best-selling subcompact car has just as much room: the Nissan Versa. So does the No. 2, the Kia Soul.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2016, 07:31:55 AMStarts without clutch in gear
It's a UK/Euro thing
Miata shop sent a message saying my car was dead. They asked if there was anything special since there were no mechanical issues with the car otherwise.
I called them back later and told them the steps to start it and both they and myself were surprised about the clutch being depressed as the culprit. I didn't know that euro cars could start without the clutch in.
My dad's VW will start with the clutch engaged. Scared the piss out of me once when I forgot to press it while it was in gear. I thought the switch had just been removed, but maybe it never had one.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 16, 2016, 09:38:05 AM
Eh, the fit's an anomaly. The Fit beats out a lot of compact cars, and some midsizers in terms of legroom.
Citroen needs to step its game up then. Sales wise Fit/Versa/Soul and I think even your Sonic are the rule, not the exception.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2016, 12:21:28 PM
Citroen needs to step its game up then. Sales wise Fit/Versa/Soul and I think even your Sonic are the rule, not the exception.
They have a Fit competitor.
The C3 Picasso.
(http://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/styles/fit_1960x1102/public/cars-car/carousel/2015/02/buyers_guide_-_citroen_c3_picasso_2014_-_front_quarter.jpg?itok=IOHOSNM2)
and a "regular" hatchback - the C3.
(http://www.topgear.com/sites/default/files/styles/16x9_640w/public/cars-road-test/image/2015/02/Large%20Image%20(optional)_612.jpg?itok=fMykyaOQ)
The Fit is an anomaly because it's a "tall hatchback" marketed as a normal one. The Tall B-MPV's, Europe has tons of them.
Huh.... I learned something today. Welp, I think B-MPVs make the regular Bs irrelevant and this thing kind of proves that. Anyways here is the video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gpTDhjnLD_U
Quote from: ifcar on September 16, 2016, 09:56:22 AM
The best-selling subcompact car has just as much room: the Nissan Versa. So does the No. 2, the Kia Soul.
I didn't even realize that the Soul was considered a subcompact. And yeah, I think there's some sorcery involved in making the Versa. The interior seems impossibly large compared to the exterior.
A small footprint can yield a ton of interior volume when the seating position resembles that of a dining chair at Thanksgiving dinner
Jack Baruth wisely said that straight up back and shin seating position is the easiest giveaway of a cheap car, which is how he wrote off the CLA. I don't mind so much but it's true- a reclined, legs out seating position for front and rear passengers is probably one of the last true demonstrators of luxury.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 16, 2016, 02:10:26 PM
A small footprint can yield a ton of interior volume when the seating position resembles that of a dining chair at Thanksgiving dinner
Jack Baruth wisely said that straight up back and shin seating position is the easiest giveaway of a cheap car, which is how he wrote off the CLA. I don't mind so much but it's true- a reclined, legs out seating position for front and rear passengers is probably one of the last true demonstrators of luxury.
That is TOTAL horseshit.More upright seating positions are a result of improved ergonomics as well as the SUV craze where everyone wants to sit up high.
Quote from: Rich on September 16, 2016, 10:07:09 AM
It's a UK/Euro thing
Miata shop sent a message saying my car was dead. They asked if there was anything special since there were no mechanical issues with the car otherwise.
I called them back later and told them the steps to start it and both they and myself were surprised about the clutch being depressed as the culprit. I didn't know that euro cars could start without the clutch in.
Really? I thought that was universal.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on September 16, 2016, 02:06:12 PM
I didn't even realize that the Soul was considered a subcompact. And yeah, I think there's some sorcery involved in making the Versa. The interior seems impossibly large compared to the exterior.
The Soul has probably slightly wandered out of the traditional subcompact class to be more like a FWD-only Honda HR-V competitor, but dimensionally and price-wise it's still in line with Fit/Versa/etc.
Wow, seems like that car would fail pretty bad back here. Say what you will about the Nissan Versa, but it's actually a pretty well thought-out package with relatively few design flaws...I mean "quirks"
Quote from: Vinsanity on September 17, 2016, 09:47:22 AM
Wow, seems like that car would fail pretty bad back here. Say what you will about the Nissan Versa, but it's actually a pretty well thought-out package with relatively few design flaws...I mean "quirks"
The Versa sells because it's cheap and has a lot of room. The Versa as a car is actually pretty garbage.
I think the C4 Cactus could have a nice market here.
I remember the Toyota Echo. So much room, so economical, so dumpy looking.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 17, 2016, 10:22:44 AM
The Versa sells because it's cheap and has a lot of room. The Versa as a car is actually pretty garbage.
I think the C4 Cactus could have a nice market here.
Maybe with a more suitable engine and rear windows that roll down. Maybe.
Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
Quote from: 2o6 on September 17, 2016, 10:22:44 AM
The Versa sells because it's cheap and has a lot of room. The Versa as a car is actually pretty garbage.
I think the C4 Cactus could have a nice market here.
Americans have generally terrible tastes. Garbage sells here. Even for the "discerning B-segment buyer" this doesn't bring much to the table besides being different. The shifter felt like something from the 80s, and it was OK dynamically but not as good as the Fit. Nowhere close. What exactly would this bring to the US outside of a French badge?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2016, 11:43:55 AM
Americans have generally terrible tastes. Garbage sells here. Even for the "discerning B-segment buyer" this doesn't bring much to the table besides being different. The shifter felt like something from the 80s, and it was OK dynamically but not as good as the Fit. Nowhere close. What exactly would this bring to the US outside of a French badge?
It's cool looking. (That worked for the Soul)
Soul is practical and makes sense though. My only need with the Soul rental I had was the steering.... everything else was up to american standards and made sense.
Also, how's the passing power in that thing? As in, say, 60-80 mph acceleration? Plenty of tiny-engine econoboxes will cruise steadily at 80 mph nowadays, but I wouldn't imagine you'd be attempting many passing maneuvers on 2-lane backroads in the Cactus
Then put a bigger engine in it? My car comes with a 1.2L NA GAS and 1.3L diesel. Those engines would be not enough. So use something else.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 17, 2016, 03:14:07 PM
Soul is practical and makes sense though. My only need with the Soul rental I had was the steering.... everything else was up to american standards and made sense.
You do realize that most of those "quirks" are because the car is cheap, right?
If you want something more traditional, you don't buy a Cactus line car.
Quote from: Vinsanity on September 17, 2016, 03:43:53 PM
Also, how's the passing power in that thing? As in, say, 60-80 mph acceleration? Plenty of tiny-engine econoboxes will cruise steadily at 80 mph nowadays, but I wouldn't imagine you'd be attempting many passing maneuvers on 2-lane backroads in the Cactus
Most European economy cars may not shine in the 0-100 km/h department, but when it comes to passing power they're pretty sufficient. The passing power of the diesel Cactus should be more than sufficient, especially with all that diesel torque.
Also, people seem to forget that passing is not only about sheer power, it's also about intelligence and intelligent driving. Overtake at the right time and at the right place. I've driven weaker cars than this and had no problems overtaking trucks on country roads. Timing is everything and knowing the performance capabilities of your ride.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 18, 2016, 08:06:14 AM
Most European economy cars may not shine in the 0-100 km/h department, but when it comes to passing power they're pretty sufficient. The passing power of the diesel Cactus should be more than sufficient, especially with all that diesel torque.
Also, people seem to forget that passing is not only about sheer power, it's also about intelligence and intelligent driving. Overtake at the right time and at the right place. I've driven weaker cars than this and had no problems overtaking trucks on country roads. Timing is everything and knowing the performance capabilities of your ride.
A vehicle with slow 0-60 will be slow everywhere. I've been stuck behind slower vehicles for miles and miles in cars well quicker than a Cactus, or similar Euro econo-cars, because I couldn't find a window large enough to execute a safe pass. A slower car only makes that window of opportunity even smaller. That's not to mention all of the highways with very short acceleration/merge lanes for on-ramps.
0-60 in the biggest diesel engine comes at 10 seconds flat.
0-60 in the biggest gas engine is about 8-9 seconds.
Those times aren't super fast, but sound reasonable.
Quote from: MX793 on September 18, 2016, 08:52:24 AM
A vehicle with slow 0-60 will be slow everywhere. I've been stuck behind slower vehicles for miles and miles in cars well quicker than a Cactus, or similar Euro econo-cars, because I couldn't find a window large enough to execute a safe pass. A slower car only makes that window of opportunity even smaller. That's not to mention all of the highways with very short acceleration/merge lanes for on-ramps.
I think "slowness" is subjective. I'd say the average modern European/Japanese/Korean economy car has a 0-100 km/h time of around 10-12 seconds. Personally I don't consider that to be distressingly slow. It's simply "not very fast." In my limited experience with some of these cars I'd say they have pretty decent midrange power, good enough to pass a truck or two in the right situation.
This thread needs some pictures! A Citroen C4 Cactus with French plates! Spotted today. These guys are probably heading towards the Oktoberfest to get wasted! :praise:
(https://s22.postimg.org/p5d5d2q29/Citroen_C4_1.jpg)
(https://s22.postimg.org/6r77mu35d/Citroen_C4_3.jpg)
(https://s22.postimg.org/5dfkrj3w1/Citroen_C4_4.jpg)
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 18, 2016, 12:21:11 PM
I think "slowness" is subjective. I'd say the average modern European/Japanese/Korean economy car has a 0-100 km/h time of around 10-12 seconds. Personally I don't consider that to be distressingly slow. It's simply "not very fast." In my limited experience with some of these cars I'd say they have pretty decent midrange power, good enough to pass a truck or two in the right situation.
For many of the passing zones in the 2-lane rural highways around here, that's not gonna cut it.
Example from a road I was on today:
Twisty/windy road with only one passing zone for several miles. Speed limit is 55, average semi is going to struggle to do much over 40 (lots of sharp, 25-30 mph turns). Only one passing zone for a couple of miles is only ~615 ft long.
Typical semi truck in the US is 70-75 ft long. If the truck is going 40 mph and I'm following at a safe distance, the truck has a ~190 ft head start before I'm in the passing zone. To safely pass the truck, I need to be a couple of car-lengths (let's say 40 ft from rear bumper to the front of the truck) ahead before I pull back into my lane. It will take the truck 7.25 seconds to cover the remaining 425 ft of passing zone if it maintains constant speed. So I have to cover the entire 615 ft of passing zone in ~6.25 seconds to safely pass the truck. That will require an acceleration of 6.4 ft/s^2. A Cactus weighs 2400 lbs, so, excluding drag (will get to that in a moment), I'd need an average force of 477 lbs just to accelerate the mass. That works out to be an average horsepower of 85 not including drag. Drag at those speeds is going to take somewhere around 10 additional HP. So, 95 hp at the wheels, average, to make that pass. That's around 115 hp at the engine. The most powerful C4 Cactus made doesn't even make 115 hp PEAK.
That's about as slow as a Yaris, Versa, et al
It's not like Citroen doesn't have other engines that wouldn't fit in this car.
Quote from: MX793 on September 18, 2016, 04:33:42 PM
For many of the passing zones in the 2-lane rural highways around here, that's not gonna cut it.
Example from a road I was on today:
Twisty/windy road with only one passing zone for several miles. Speed limit is 55, average semi is going to struggle to do much over 40 (lots of sharp, 25-30 mph turns). Only one passing zone for a couple of miles is only ~615 ft long.
Typical semi truck in the US is 70-75 ft long. If the truck is going 40 mph and I'm following at a safe distance, the truck has a ~190 ft head start before I'm in the passing zone. To safely pass the truck, I need to be a couple of car-lengths (let's say 40 ft from rear bumper to the front of the truck) ahead before I pull back into my lane. It will take the truck 7.25 seconds to cover the remaining 425 ft of passing zone if it maintains constant speed. So I have to cover the entire 615 ft of passing zone in ~6.25 seconds to safely pass the truck. That will require an acceleration of 6.4 ft/s^2. A Cactus weighs 2400 lbs, so, excluding drag (will get to that in a moment), I'd need an average force of 477 lbs just to accelerate the mass. That works out to be an average horsepower of 85 not including drag. Drag at those speeds is going to take somewhere around 10 additional HP. So, 95 hp at the wheels, average, to make that pass. That's around 115 hp at the engine. The most powerful C4 Cactus made doesn't even make 115 hp PEAK.
The length of the truck does seem to be important. Here the trucks tend to be shorter in length, and they generally keep a distance between themselves and the truck ahead which allows cars to overtake them and slide in in front of them to repeat the same maneuver when possible.
I've just never had a problem with most "underpowered" cars in regards to overtaking. I generally wait for the right moment and use what power there is to overtake - and I am still alive, so it's working! :lol:
There are a few hopeless cases, cars which are so slow that I won't even think about overtaking with them. I remember a 1990s Mercedes C200 Diesel W202 I had to drive which had like 79-horsepower (naturally aspirated). That thing was slow, even with the 5-speed manual. Acceleration was nonexistent and overtaking was virtually impossible unless you had long straight roads and no oncoming traffic in sight. Compared to this thing most modern economy cars which I've driven were sports cars and "quick".
If Citroen were to bring over the C4 Cactus I'm sure they'd drop a more powerful engine in it. Then again for America a C4 Cactus would be more of a funky city car - something to use in town rather than do a cross country trip in.
Wim you don't drive in the US. It's different. People are more aggressive, on ramps are much shorter, and aside from Germany highway speeds are much higher. The C4 Cactus felt fine in the UK among other 80-100HP misery mobiles. But back in the US, where I'm pretty sure the slowest of the top 10 vehicles sold does 0-60 in 8 seconds, this thing would get mauled. I did the math last night... cruising speeds in the fast lane on UK highways was about 75 MPH. In the US that's 85-90. Drag increases with the square of speed so for it to have the same comfort at the same speeds in the US it would need about 20-30% more power, which- surprise!- is the 130 or so HP found in a lot of base B-segment cars here.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 17, 2016, 06:21:05 PM
Then put a bigger engine in it? My car comes with a 1.2L NA GAS and 1.3L diesel. Those engines would be not enough. So use something else.
You do realize that most of those "quirks" are because the car is cheap, right?
If you want something more traditional, you don't buy a Cactus line car.
I don't think Americans would put up with something this cheap from an unknown manufacturer. You are thinking about this purely from the car side; I'm looking at this from the business POV. Citroen would have to establish their dealership and parts network quickly, AND develop or partner with a financing arm that would specialize in subprime financing. You take away the Citroen badge, there's little reason to buy this over a Versa Note. By the time they tweaked it for American tastes- bigger engine, openable rear windows- it would cost the same as other B-segment cars here and be a much bigger PITA to service and repair. It's not a bad car, but for Americans it's a weird car that doesn't bring a ton of new value to the market
Mirage has 72HP
All variants of the versa have 106HP
(I'm not against extra power, but it sounds silly - if Citroen were to bring it here they'd add more HP def.)
Mirage monthly payments are probably not much more expensive than the cheapest daily rental rates
Versa has what fat Americans want (space space space, abundant dealerships, easy ownership experience)
So no car ever should ever be sold on the US ever again
Got it.
Well, they probably couldn't bring over the cactus at a competitive price either. They're manufactured in Spain. I haven't heard of any car being imported to the US from Spain. There's a good reason for that. I'm sure between exchange rates and tariffs, you can't bring any car here profitably. And then when you talk economy cars, it's even more difficult since the margins are so much smaller.
They don't have the geographical footprint and whatever small sales they could get here wouldn't justify tooling up an entire new location.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2016, 05:26:54 AM
Wim you don't drive in the US. It's different. People are more aggressive, on ramps are much shorter, and aside from Germany highway speeds are much higher. The C4 Cactus felt fine in the UK among other 80-100HP misery mobiles. But back in the US, where I'm pretty sure the slowest of the top 10 vehicles sold does 0-60 in 8 seconds, this thing would get mauled. I did the math last night... cruising speeds in the fast lane on UK highways was about 75 MPH. In the US that's 85-90. Drag increases with the square of speed so for it to have the same comfort at the same speeds in the US it would need about 20-30% more power, which- surprise!- is the 130 or so HP found in a lot of base B-segment cars here.
If the C4 Cactus were to come to the US it would definitely receive a more powerful engine. I see it as a niche product in the US anyway, and the dedicated fan base which would buy the Cactus probably value its quirky design over sheer performance.
I think the Citroen C4 is a more realistic choice for the US market.
(https://i.imgsafe.org/00febe2cd2.jpg)
And as you can see it has more powerful engine options.
(https://i.imgsafe.org/01044580fe.jpg)
Quote from: 2o6 on September 19, 2016, 08:21:22 AM
So no car ever should ever be sold on the US ever again
Got it.
Yep, that's obviously the logic when pointing out the issues with one particular car.
Quote from: MrH on September 19, 2016, 08:47:58 AM
Well, they probably couldn't bring over the cactus at a competitive price either. They're manufactured in Spain. I haven't heard of any car being imported to the US from Spain. There's a good reason for that. I'm sure between exchange rates and tariffs, you can't bring any car here profitably. And then when you talk economy cars, it's even more difficult since the margins are so much smaller.
They don't have the geographical footprint and whatever small sales they could get here wouldn't justify tooling up an entire new location.
I could have sworn that some sort of Jeep or FCA car was made in Spain, but I was wrong.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 19, 2016, 05:26:54 AM
Wim you don't drive in the US. It's different. People are more aggressive, on ramps are much shorter, and aside from Germany highway speeds are much higher. The C4 Cactus felt fine in the UK among other 80-100HP misery mobiles. But back in the US, where I'm pretty sure the slowest of the top 10 vehicles sold does 0-60 in 8 seconds, this thing would get mauled. I did the math last night... cruising speeds in the fast lane on UK highways was about 75 MPH. In the US that's 85-90. Drag increases with the square of speed so for it to have the same comfort at the same speeds in the US it would need about 20-30% more power, which- surprise!- is the 130 or so HP found in a lot of base B-segment cars here.
I don't think Americans would put up with something this cheap from an unknown manufacturer. You are thinking about this purely from the car side; I'm looking at this from the business POV. Citroen would have to establish their dealership and parts network quickly, AND develop or partner with a financing arm that would specialize in subprime financing. You take away the Citroen badge, there's little reason to buy this over a Versa Note. By the time they tweaked it for American tastes- bigger engine, openable rear windows- it would cost the same as other B-segment cars here and be a much bigger PITA to service and repair. It's not a bad car, but for Americans it's a weird car that doesn't bring a ton of new value to the market
You don't need to drive in the fast lane, though. :huh:
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 19, 2016, 11:36:35 AM
You don't need to drive in the fast lane, though. :huh:
Even people who drive sanely have expectations of power. They could sell Camrys and Corollas with smaller engines here, but they don't. Mainstream engines actually keep getting more powerful here. Why?
2o6 stop taking this so personally. You are way tougher than that. French cars won't work here for the manufacturers or the majority of the American car buying market. It is what is. The American cat market is damn near optimized
Wimmer, 10-12 seconds is abysmal. That's barely acceptable power for merging on the highway here, and to have to do it while straining and going WOT is not fun.
Hell my bike is pretty damn slow and merging isn't all that fun, and its 0-60 time is in the mid 7's. Granted most of that acceleration seems to be down low where it has a ton of torque and can hop off the line, and loses steam up top, but still my bike is much, much quicker than a POS 12 second car. That would not be that fun.
Americans don't know what WOT is anyway.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 19, 2016, 12:06:13 PM
Wimmer, 10-12 seconds is abysmal. That's barely acceptable power for merging on the highway here, and to have to do it while straining and going WOT is not fun.
Don't your fellow drivers in the US make way for drivers who want to enter the highway? That's how it works here. When you're on the slow lane and there are other drivers wanting to merge, you make way for them by merging onto the fast lane (if possible) thus freeing the slow lane up for the newcomers to merge. If you can't make way for the newcomers because the fast lane is occupied, you will stay on the slow lane and those wanting to merge will slow down (creep) or stop waiting for their chance to merge onto the highway. That's the system here and it works brilliantly.
I merge onto fast roads with my slow car all the time, and it takes an "abysmal" 9 seconds to reach 100 km/h. :devil:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 19, 2016, 12:29:19 PM
Don't your fellow drivers in the US make way for drivers who want to enter the highway?
no. In fact many times they block you on purpose, if they're just not paying attention. American drivers really suck.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 19, 2016, 12:44:59 PM
no. In fact many times they block you on purpose, if they're just not paying attention. American drivers really suck.
Our ramp designs aren't very good, either. Merge lanes frequently double as exit lanes, so you have cars trying to exit the highway trying to move right and slow down in the same space as cars that are trying to enter the highway are accelerating in.
Quote from: MX793 on September 19, 2016, 12:48:04 PM
Our ramp designs aren't very good, either. Merge lanes frequently double as exit lanes, so you have cars trying to exit the highway trying to move right and slow down in the same space as cars that are trying to enter the highway are accelerating in.
Yup.
Granted, a lot of people don't merge properly, anyways. I saw a lady in a Highlander today trying to merge onto the highway at less than 25 mph with a long line of cars backed up behind her, but often times people don't make way for you to merge, either because they're doing it on purpose, not paying attention, or trying to dive into an exit.
A not insignificant number of cars are that slow from 0-60.
Mirage
Toyota Prius
Toyota Corolla
Versa
Sentra (I hate driving this car. With the 1.8L and the CVT auto it's so fucking slow, and it has suspension tuning and irritating steering)
Those are popular models just off the top of my head. I mean, hell. The 1.4T is only really economical when I stay out of boost, so usually, I don't accelerate too hard anyways.
I think complaining about power is kind of a dumb thing to do - if Citroen ever wanted to bring it to the US, they'd likely put in a bigger engine, and I'm pretty sure Citroen sells that car with other engines in stronger states of tune.
Quote from: MX793 on September 19, 2016, 12:48:04 PM
Our ramp designs aren't very good, either. Merge lanes frequently double as exit lanes, so you have cars trying to exit the highway trying to move right and slow down in the same space as cars that are trying to enter the highway are accelerating in.
Depends on the area.
No joke there I was in the longest acceleration lane known to man on a 65mph interstate outside of any city, and the tard in front of us BRAKED HARD down to 20mph because they saw cars coming. Just one or two. There was plenty of space to go before them or after them, there was hardly any traffic whatsoever.
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 19, 2016, 12:29:19 PM
Don't your fellow drivers in the US make way for drivers who want to enter the highway?
lolololol
Quote from: Raza on September 16, 2016, 06:30:50 PM
Really? I thought that was universal.
Clutch-starter interlocks became commonplace in North America in the '80s, in response to the Audi "unintended acceleration" BS at the time. Same with brake shift interlocks in automatic transmissions (requiring you to push on the brake before the car would come out of Park). It wasn't a controversy in Europe, so European cars often don't have them.
North American trucks and SUVs didn't commonly have clutch-starter interlocks until the mid-'90s (the '93 Cherokee never had one, e.g.).
You guys need better driving schools which emphasize respecting your fellow drivers and getting your big SUV out of the way when someone in a paltry econobox wants to merge onto the freeway!!! :hammerhead: :tounge:
Quote from: cawimmer430 on September 20, 2016, 06:14:38 AM
You guys need better driving schools which emphasize respecting your fellow drivers and getting your big SUV out of the way when someone in a paltry econobox wants to merge onto the freeway!!! :hammerhead: :tounge:
It's frequently the case that traffic in the right lane can't move left because there isn't space in the left lane for them to move to.
Quote from: MX793 on September 20, 2016, 06:18:38 AM
It's frequently the case that traffic in the right lane can't move left because there isn't space in the left lane for them to move to.
In that case, you should practice this. :ohyeah:
A great example of a simple little word in German is Reißverschlussverfahren. Ok, not that simple but a typical word nonetheless. It is what's known as a compound word. That's the easy part.
What does it mean? The direct translation is 'zipper feed-in method'. Does that help you? If you're from the States, probably not, so I'll continue. It's the method, dictated by law, in which cars have to merge together on an expressway or highway. One from the left and then one from the right.(http://www.expatica.com/media/upload/513077.jpg)
Actually in Germany it's 'rechts vor links', so they begin on the right. The whole process reminds one of a zipper of cars and is a beautiful thing to behold when done correctly by everyone, and it speeds up the process of merging by 1.72488 percent. That's a fact from the Max Planck Institute.
I estimate that I have driven about 200,000 miles (320,000km) in my life – a great majority of those miles on Florida's roads. Granted, Florida is always competing with some other state for having the least safest roads in America, but it's because many of the drivers come from somewhere else, so they say. Really, Floridians are just terrible drivers.
Still, in America, I've never heard of such a rule, though I can't rule out the possibility it exists. I can rule out, however, that if such a rule exists in Florida it is not obeyed. In Florida, if either the car or the driver is attractive, but not too attractive, they get in. Here in Germany, such rule does exist and is nearly always obeyed. Sorry for the digression.
A closer look at translating Reißverschlussverfahren
A Reißverschluss would literally be translated into a 'travelling lock or fastener', or a zipper. But even looking at how to say the word, without its meaning, it is still difficult to navigate. The 'ß' is a double 's', not to be confused with the less traditional 'ss', which is also a double 's'. There was a move 20 years ago in the German speaking world to turn the 'ß' into 'ss', so that it could be understood on computers and not look like beta (β) or lactam antibiotic (β). But as most new things in Germany, the modernising and standardising of German never completely took hold.
Fittingly, since this is the German language after all, there are volumes of books on how to say the ß, and when and where to use it. It is, of course, neither feminine or masculine so it can be enjoyed and cursed equally by everyone.
Verfahren means method, that much is clear. But how do you speak this? Well, a 'v' in German is pronounced like an 'f' in English (and the German 'f', too). Why? No one can say with any certainty. Now, if we added something as innocuous as a 'sich' before the verfahren, then the whole thing means 'get muddled', which is where we are and has made me sick. The word Reißverschlussverfahren, much like the driving rule, is a complicated thing to a newcomer.
Perhaps you may be asking yourself, with a wonderful organised rule such as Reißverschlussverfahren for driving, might it translate (pun intended) into other aspects of Germans' lives? Perhaps in a bakery or on the street? Might a logical, tidy German use the zipper feed-in method at the front door of a department store or disembarking an airplane? Nope. Germans are still waiting for a rule to be written that legally binds them to the idea, and the politicians are waiting for the report from the Max Planck Institute. Off the road, it's still every man for himself.http://www.expatica.com/de/insider-views/German-driving-rule-Reiverschlussverfahren_513072.html
A lot of words that say very little about the method.
Zipper method works great at lower speeds (<45 mph). At 70+ mph, not so much.
Quote from: MX793 on September 20, 2016, 06:41:07 AM
A lot of words that say very little about the method.
Zipper method works great at lower speeds (<45 mph). At 70+ mph, not so much.
Yeah, I just copied and pasted what I thought would describe the method. Just googled it quickly!
American drivers in gross generalization suck. Entitled to feel they can drive in any lane they choose at any speed they choose and all other traffic: be it someone trying to overtake on a highway, merge onto the highway, or exit a highway must make way for you. Traffic laws regarding this, if there are any, are very hard to enforce as well. If a douche bag is sitting in the passing lane at 55 mph in a highway with a speed limit of 65 mph, and traffic is flowing at 70 mph, there is nothing anyone can do about it other than glare, honk, or flash a high beam at. Being America, you never know if he's a nutter with a loaded gun either.
"Wim you don't drive in the US. It's different. People are more aggressive, on ramps are much shorter, and aside from Germany highway speeds are much higher. The C4 Cactus felt fine in the UK among other 80-100HP misery mobiles. But back in the US, where I'm pretty sure the slowest of the top 10 vehicles sold does 0-60 in 8 seconds, this thing would get mauled. I did the math last night... cruising speeds in the fast lane on UK highways was about 75 MPH. In the US that's 85-90. Drag increases with the square of speed so for it to have the same comfort at the same speeds in the US it would need about 20-30% more power, which- surprise!- is the 130 or so HP found in a lot of base B-segment cars here."
Is is true that highway speeds are faster in the U.S. than Europe, outside of Germany? I was always under the impression that U.S. highway traffic travels slower than European traffic. I don't know. When I've rented cars there, Spain and Italy seemed faster and England about the same. I don't remember regarding France.
Quote from: veeman on September 20, 2016, 08:09:11 AM
American drivers in gross generalization suck. Entitled to feel they can drive in any lane they choose at any speed they choose and all other traffic: be it someone trying to overtake on a highway, merge onto the highway, or exit a highway must make way for you. Traffic laws regarding this, if there are any, are very hard to enforce as well. If a douche bag is sitting in the passing lane at 55 mph in a highway with a speed limit of 65 mph, and traffic is flowing at 70 mph, there is nothing anyone can do about it other than glare, honk, or flash a high beam at. Being America, you never know if he's a nutter with a loaded gun either.
Scary stuff. :mask:
Quote from: veeman on September 20, 2016, 08:14:01 AM
Is is true that highway speeds are faster in the U.S. than Europe, outside of Germany? I was always under the impression that U.S. highway traffic travels slower than European traffic. I don't know. When I've rented cars there, Spain and Italy seemed faster and England about the same. I don't remember regarding France.
In virtually all Western European nations the highway speed limit is 130 km/h (81.25 mph). Even in Germany the "recommended speed limit" is 130 km/h, but it is not derestricted.
I've driven in France, Italy, Austria, Switzerland, The Netherlands and in the UK and when merging onto a highway people will generally make way for you if possible. I guess this is why we have no issues merging onto faster roads with generally less powerful cars.
Quote from: veeman on September 20, 2016, 08:09:11 AM
American drivers in gross generalization suck. Entitled to feel they can drive in any lane they choose at any speed they choose and all other traffic: be it someone trying to overtake on a highway, merge onto the highway, or exit a highway must make way for you. Traffic laws regarding this, if there are any, are very hard to enforce as well. If a douche bag is sitting in the passing lane at 55 mph in a highway with a speed limit of 65 mph, and traffic is flowing at 70 mph, there is nothing anyone can do about it other than glare, honk, or flash a high beam at. Being America, you never know if he's a nutter with a loaded gun either.
Actually there are laws "Keep right to pass" in some states, "left lane passing only" in others, but they are rarely ever ever enforced.
BTW when I returned from almost 4 years in Germany I about popped blood vessels driving on the highway here. So infruriating!!!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 20, 2016, 09:35:39 AM
BTW when I returned from almost 4 years in Germany I about popped blood vessels driving on the highway here. So infruriating!!!
I can imagine based on what people are telling me about the merging-onto-a-highway drama in America. :lol:
You guys sound like nervous nellies behind the wheel.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
You guys sound like nervous nellies behind the wheel.
Not at all. But there are a ton of retarded drivers in America.
Driving is approached differently in Europe, it's not a "GOD GIVEN RIGHT 'MERICA!!!!" but instead a privilege with an enormous amount of responsibility that goes with it.
AND, it's known that you mess up and you're riding the bus/train from then on. (Not the "but they have to get to work!" excuse people use here to excuse bad driving, DUIs, etc...)
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
You guys sound like nervous nellies behind the wheel.
Don't you live in Bumfuck Ohio? Do you even have any traffic over there? :lol:
:lol: Columbus area has 2+ million people now I think.
Quote from: MrH on September 20, 2016, 02:07:25 PM
:lol: Columbus area has 2+ million people now I think.
Huh, more than I thought.
Still not much compared to the Bay Area, and when the traffic in the right lane is going 70 mph, I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to be stuck in a car that does 0-60 in 10-12 seconds.
I ususally go about 85-90 all the time. It's easier in the Sonic, but I never had any issues in my Yaris, which was about that slow.
If I'm not mistaken, the last time somebody sold a car in America with rear windows that couldn't be rolled down, it was one of these.
(http://www.oldcarbrochures.com/static/NA/Chevrolet/1978_Chevrolet/1978_Chevrolet_Malibu_Brochure/1978%20Chevrolet%20Malibu-02.jpg)
Despite this blatant example of penny-pinching, it didn't seem to hurt sales of the Malibu (and its badge engineered derivatives) one bit.
Quote from: Madman on September 20, 2016, 05:53:16 PM
If I'm not mistaken, the last time somebody sold a car in America with rear windows that couldn't be rolled down, it was one of these.
Despite this blatant example of penny-pinching, it didn't seem to hurt sales of the Malibu (and its badge engineered derivatives) one bit.
I seem to recall an ancient discussion on 'Spin where the late '70s and early '80s Chevy Caprice Classic was mentioned for having rear windows which wouldn't even roll down 1/3rd of the way...
(http://www.imcdb.org/i564291.jpg)
Quote from: MrH on September 19, 2016, 08:47:58 AM
Well, they probably couldn't bring over the cactus at a competitive price either. They're manufactured in Spain. I haven't heard of any car being imported to the US from Spain. There's a good reason for that.
2014-onwards Ford Transit Connects sold in North America are manufactured in Spain.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 20, 2016, 01:45:40 PM
You guys sound like nervous nellies behind the wheel.
I'm as cool as a cucumber fam. You need to come to Europe to see what we're talking about. American drivers SUCK.
For real tough, you need to spend like a summer in Europe. Just backpack. It will change your life
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 20, 2016, 02:34:24 PM
Huh, more than I thought.
Still not much compared to the Bay Area, and when the traffic in the right lane is going 70 mph, I don't think it's unreasonable to not want to be stuck in a car that does 0-60 in 10-12 seconds.
Traffic is traffic bro.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2016, 12:31:05 AM
I'm as cool as a cucumber fam. You need to come to Europe to see what we're talking about. American drivers SUCK.
For real tough, you need to spend like a summer in Europe. Just backpack. It will change your life
I was referring to the guys in here who are all like "driving a car that slow is dangerous!"
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 22, 2016, 12:31:05 AM
I'm as cool as a cucumber fam. You need to come to Europe to see what we're talking about. American drivers SUCK.
For real tough, you need to spend like a summer in Europe. Just backpack. It will change your life
I'm brown skinned. The natives will think I'm a refugee. No thanks. I do the overpriced hotel route.