Electric Vehicles in Germany Emit More Carbon Dioxide Than Diesel Vehicles

[cawimmer430]

And the Greenies in this country continue to push for closing coal power plants while relying on unreliable and fluctuating solar and wind energy. RIP, Germany.



Electric Vehicles in Germany Emit More Carbon Dioxide Than Diesel Vehicles

A study by the IFO think tank in Munich found that electric vehicles in Germany emit 11 percent to 28 percent more carbon dioxide than their diesel counterparts. The study considered the production of batteries as well as the German electricity mix in making this determination. Germany spent thousands of euros on electric car subsidies per vehicle to put a million electric vehicles on the road, but those subsidies have done nothing to reach the country's greenhouse gas emission targets. This is just the latest example of government programs expecting one outcome and getting quite another, instead. To some it is ironic; to others it is funny. At IER, we believe it to be sad, as it is a waste of time and money that could be better put to use solving real problems.

The researchers compared the carbon dioxide output for a Tesla Model 3 (electric) and a Mercedes C220d sedan (diesel). The Mercedes releases about 141 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer driven, including the carbon emitted to drill, refine, and transport its fuel. The Tesla releases between 156 and 181 grams, including battery production. Mining and processing the lithium, cobalt, and manganese used for batteries consume a lot of energy. A Tesla Model 3 battery, for example, represents between 11 and 15 metric tons of carbon dioxide. Given a battery lifetime of 10 years and an annual travel distance of 15,000 kilometers, 73 to 98 grams of carbon dioxide are emitted per kilometer.

Germany's growing reliance on coal for electricity generation was also considered in the study. The country relies on coal when the wind is not blowing and the sun is not shining. As a result, charging a Tesla in Bavaria releases about 83 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer driven.

The European Union also provides benefits for manufacturers of electric vehicles, by allowing them to claim zero emissions under its strict emissions limits. Not all European countries may emit more carbon dioxide from electric vehicles than from diesel or gasoline vehicles, however. In France, for example, electric vehicles may emit less carbon dioxide than diesel vehicles because France gets the majority of its electricity from nuclear power. But in many other European countries, that is certainly not the case.



Other Alternatives         

According to the German researchers, the European Union target of 59 grams of carbon dioxide per kilometer by 2030 corresponds to a "technically unrealistic" consumption of 2.2 liters of diesel or 2.6 liters of gasoline per 100 kilometers. The researchers believe it would be preferable to look at other sources of power for automobiles—for example, methane engines, "whose emissions are one-third less than those of diesel motors."



Other Studies

A study in 2017 by researchers at the University of Michigan found that the amount of carbon dioxide emitted by electric cars varied wildly by country. The study found that an electric car recharged by a coal-fired plant produces as much carbon dioxide as a gasoline-powered car that gets 29 miles per gallon, which is a slightly higher efficiency than the 25.2 miles per gallon that is the average of all the cars, SUVs, vans, and light trucks sold in the United States over the past year. If the electricity comes from a natural gas plant, recharging a plug-in electric vehicle is akin to driving a car that gets 58 miles per gallon.

Using the U.S. electricity mix, which is generated mainly be fossil fuels (about 64 percent), the researchers at the University of Michigan found that the average plug-in vehicle produces as much carbon dioxide as a conventional car that gets 55.4 miles per gallon. In China, which has been pushing widespread adoption of electric vehicles, the cars emit as much carbon dioxide as a car that gets 40 miles per gallon, due in large part to their heavy dependence on coal.

Note that the above findings are optimistic for electric vehicles because the researchers at the University of Michigan did not take into account the additional substantial carbon dioxide emissions in manufacturing batteries, as did the German study.

A different study from the Union of Concerned Scientists found that, depending on the type of plug-in being built, manufacturing a battery-powered car generates 15 percent to 68 percent more carbon dioxide emissions than a conventional gasoline-powered car because of the energy intensity of manufacturing batteries.



Conclusion

The above studies indicate that the terminology "zero emission" is a misnomer when referring to electric vehicles. Also, lawmakers should be cautious about subsidizing electric vehicles when their electricity is generated mainly by fossil fuels because they are not lowering the carbon dioxide emissions from automobiles by doing so. The old saying that "the road to hell is paved with good intentions" may well apply to many of the gimmicks and work-arounds advocated by whatever group is popular with a political and media elite at any given time. Germany's lessons should be a case study for political leaders everywhere.


Link: https://www.instituteforenergyresearch.org/the-grid/electric-vehicles-in-germany-emit-more-carbon-dioxide-than-diesel-vehicles/

[12,000 RPM]

I feel like we heard about this study already, and quickly discovered that it was bullshit.

Here's an analysis from someone I trust more not to have an agenda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM

[veeman]

I think the big problem with diesels was not carbon dioxide but carcinogenic particulate matter/soot and nitrous oxides.

[NomisR]

I think the big problem with diesels was not carbon dioxide but carcinogenic particulate matter/soot and nitrous oxides.

Which is why California has such a big problem with Diesels because they're more focus on SMOG than CO2.  Used to anyways.

[cawimmer430]

I feel like we heard about this study already, and quickly discovered that it was bullshit.

Here's an analysis from someone I trust more not to have an agenda:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RhtiPefVzM

Most of Germany's energy is still being provided by coal, and not just any coal; BROWN COAL (the worst kind). Solar and wind are unreliable sources of energy here as we have many cloudy days and areas with unreliable wind conditions. And our idiot politicians shut down most of our nuclear plants due to ideological reasons.

In short, an EV in Germany won't pollute locally, but it's exhaust pipe is the local coal power plant around the corner.

[cawimmer430]

I think the big problem with diesels was not carbon dioxide but carcinogenic particulate matter/soot and nitrous oxides.

As I understand it, diesels emit more CO2, but since they are more efficient than a comparable gasoline engine they emit less CO2 in a direct comparison.

The big issue with diesels was NOx, which has now been practically eliminated with more advanced SCR (Urea) systems and DPFs.

Gasoline cars are under fire here due to particulate and benzene emissions and of course the higher CO2 emissions. The first problem has been addressed through the use of a particulate filter.

[CaminoRacer]

Most of Germany's energy is still being provided by coal, and not just any coal; BROWN COAL (the worst kind). Solar and wind are unreliable sources of energy here as we have many cloudy days and areas with unreliable wind conditions. And our idiot politicians shut down most of our nuclear plants due to ideological reasons.

In short, an EV in Germany won't pollute locally, but it's exhaust pipe is the local coal power plant around the corner.

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

Renewables are growing and coal is shrinking. Lignite is the 2nd largest source, after renewables...

[cawimmer430]

https://www.cleanenergywire.org/factsheets/germanys-energy-consumption-and-power-mix-charts

Renewables are growing and coal is shrinking. Lignite is the 2nd largest source, after renewables...

Yep, they are growing; slowly. But the renewable energy sources are at the moment still unreliable and cannot sustain our current growing energy needs.

[NomisR]

They need to go back to cheap clean nuclear.

[cawimmer430]

They need to go back to cheap clean nuclear.

Agreed. At the very least as a stop-gap or transitional power source. Germany had a safe nuclear power track record. Unlike our neighbors France or the Czech Republic...

[12,000 RPM]

So what are you doing to try and get more nuclear plants in? I feel like you don't even vote.

[Laconian]

I feel like you don't even vote.

This sort of comment is inflammatory and unnecessary.

[Laconian]

Most of Germany's energy is still being provided by coal, and not just any coal; BROWN COAL (the worst kind). Solar and wind are unreliable sources of energy here as we have many cloudy days and areas with unreliable wind conditions. And our idiot politicians shut down most of our nuclear plants due to ideological reasons.

In short, an EV in Germany won't pollute locally, but it's exhaust pipe is the local coal power plant around the corner.

This article depressed the shit out of me.. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-hambach-forest/

[cawimmer430]

So what are you doing to try and get more nuclear plants in? I feel like you don't even vote.

I do vote - and I vote for the correct political party; the AfD. The only remaining conservative political party comprised of economists, professors and REALISTS.


Here's something funny - and tragic. Electric mobility is not gaining ground here as quickly as our government hoped. The cars are too expensive, the ranges are small, charging takes long and worst of all is the lack of charging stations. Now comes the killer: they are building the WRONG types charging stations! 

The vast majority of charging stations being built are slow-charge - even along roads where people require fast charging, like say at an Autobahn gas station. Most of the "fast charging" stations only provide 50kW or less) - and of course at horrendous prices since Germany's energy prices have doubled thanks to the all-knowing Führerin Angela Merkel's disastrous Energiewende (energy revolution) tactic.

Link: https://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article198558115/Elektroautos-In-Deutschland-werden-die-falschen-Ladesaeulen-gebaut.html

[cawimmer430]

This article depressed the shit out of me.. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-hambach-forest/

Funny thing (or tragic) about the Hambacher Forst ist that it was the GREEN PARTY which allowed the deforestation and mining of this place. At the same time, those Green Party hypocrites will send in their eco-freaks and Antifa foot soldiers to harass and attack the workers who are just doing their job.

And people wonder why I DESPISE the German Green Party. The last time we had the Greens in the Bundestag (under the Gerhard Schröder government) they were responsible for so much shit: higher gas prices (Ökosteuer), participation in the Bosnian War, cheap "starvation" style wages etc. They are such a heap of crap. I HATE them.