TL;DR version - roundabouts are better & safer but it's hard to persuade Americans that they can handle them.
https://youtu.be/AqcyRxZJCXc
Metric is easier and much more efficient, but it's the work of Commie Lucifer.
If we hate them so much, why are there so many?
tl;dr people that don't understand them hate them because they are probably bad drivers to begin with
Carmel, IN is the roundabout capital of the US and it's awesome. I have friends that live there, it's a blast to hit one after another at full tilt when there is zero traffic.
It might be fun to drift around a few times before going shooting off in the direction that you want.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 23, 2020, 07:31:04 AM
If we hate them so much, why are there so many?
3 main reasons:
1. Takes up less real estate than a typical cloverleaf interchange,
2. Can link anywhere from 3 to 6 or more streets without stop signs or traffic lights,
3. Costs a fuckton less than an overpass.
There's this one that was in Long Beach that people seems to be afraid of. As you can see, people don't know how to deal with it sitting at the stop sign not knowing how to get in.
https://youtu.be/qRFKfERL5ZQ
The lack of lane lines in the circle might be confusing for a lot of people
That traffic circle is a hot mess and would be a nightmare in heavy traffic. the road coming in from the right is a 3 lane road that splits into 4 lanes as it hits the circle. The far right lane is forced into the first exit. The lane next to that lane has to make the first exit or the lane next to it won't have the option of making the first exit but there are no lines showing that. If you watch right at the beginning of the top down view you see a car enter from the right side in the outer lane (not the one forced to exit) and proceeds straight to the inside lane and then takes the 2nd exit in the outer lane.
I love roundabouts and I have one intersection near me that was converted to a roundabout that has been a huge improvement. I have another one near me that I would love to see turned into a roundabout. However, roundabouts work best where there are only 2 lane roads connected to it. When you start adding more lanes they get too confusing for the general public.
Traffic circles have stop signs. Roundabouts don't.
And on Nick's point on real estate needed. Signalized intersections take up very little space - so you're not going to see roundabouts replacing red lights in established city centers.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2020, 08:17:20 AM
tl;dr people that don't understand them hate them because they are probably bad drivers to begin with
*cough* old people.
Quote from: RomanChariot on January 23, 2020, 10:40:48 AM
That traffic circle is a hot mess and would be a nightmare in heavy traffic. the road coming in from the right is a 3 lane road that splits into 4 lanes as it hits the circle. The far right lane is forced into the first exit. The lane next to that lane has to make the first exit or the lane next to it won't have the option of making the first exit but there are no lines showing that. If you watch right at the beginning of the top down view you see a car enter from the right side in the outer lane (not the one forced to exit) and proceeds straight to the inside lane and then takes the 2nd exit in the outer lane.
I love roundabouts and I have one intersection near me that was converted to a roundabout that has been a huge improvement. I have another one near me that I would love to see turned into a roundabout. However, roundabouts work best where there are only 2 lane roads connected to it. When you start adding more lanes they get too confusing for the general public.
I would say the one I posted is not that bad, at least to me anyways, but most people seem to go out of their way to avoid it. I've had to go to a business near that area and they specifically mentioned that i may need to go through the traffic circle i guess in case I wanted to avoid it. I just found that funny.
Quote from: NomisR on January 23, 2020, 12:03:17 PM
I would say the one I posted is not that bad, at least to me anyways, but most people seem to go out of their way to avoid it. I've had to go to a business near that area and they specifically mentioned that i may need to go through the traffic circle i guess in case I wanted to avoid it. I just found that funny.
It's a nice big one that would be amazing to drift. Basically the size of a skidpad.
There's a tiny "roundabout" they installed here in Provo that's like a 5 foot diameter curb in the middle of a normal intersection and they removed the stop/yield signs on the intersecting road so now it's a free for all. But the center circle is so small you barely have to go around it so it's a bit scary. Basically just a free for all 4-way (no)stop. But Europe does similar things - some small towns have dots in the center of the intersection to make it a "roundabout".
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
There's a tiny "roundabout" they installed here in Provo that's like a 5 foot diameter curb in the middle of a normal intersection and they removed the stop/yield signs on the intersecting road so now it's a free for all. But the center circle is so small you barely have to go around it so it's a bit scary. Basically just a free for all 4-way (no)stop. But Europe does similar things - some small towns have dots in the center of the intersection to make it a "roundabout".
Sometimes the free-for-all is best - forces people to surface their attention & consciously negotiate - rather than automatically moving off at "green-is-go" & getting killed in a T-bone.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
There's a tiny "roundabout" they installed here in Provo that's like a 5 foot diameter curb in the middle of a normal intersection and they removed the stop/yield signs on the intersecting road so now it's a free for all. But the center circle is so small you barely have to go around it so it's a bit scary. Basically just a free for all 4-way (no)stop. But Europe does similar things - some small towns have dots in the center of the intersection to make it a "roundabout".
Sounds more like a "traffic calming device" than a roundabout. We have a few of them where I live and I see Boomers biff it all the time. :facepalm:
The US term is "Traffic Circle". There's a few here in SD, but most American drivers are confused by them.
Ehh, they're quite common here, have yield signs and the state refers to them as roundabouts.
Mostly no problems, but I do know some people avoid them.
There aren't any roundabouts near where I live that I take regularly. I don't ever purposely avoid a roundabout but I don't particularly like them, particularly ones with multiple entry/exit points and ones with two or more lanes within the roundabout. Since it's not on a road I'm that familiar with, I'll be using Waze or Googlemaps to find my way. The accuracy/delay of current real time navigation systems makes roundabouts confusing with multiple entry/exit points. It's hard to real time look at Waze and the road and figure out which exit you have to take. Also, especially at night, it's hard to figure out real time which lane I should get into in the roundabout since I don't particularly know beforehand which exit I have to take. I also don't like merging onto the roundabout if the outside lane is open but the inside lane is occupied by a car. What if that inside lane car is trying to merge to the outside lane when I try to enter the roundabout. It's confusing man. Maybe I'm just an old guy. I'd prefer a smart traffic light which changes lights based on traffic.
Quote from: shp4man on January 23, 2020, 12:48:50 PM
The US term is "Traffic Circle". There's a few here in SD, but most American drivers are confused by them.
False. They are two different things.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7Rl0mKl8VL0/S9XbgnmQn9I/AAAAAAAAAFM/BASAz-Ay6kw/s1600/Traffic+Circle+vs.+Roundabout+-Letter.pub.gif)
"Never cross to the center island of a roundabout" :lol: Der.
I prefer the Mexican traffic rules...whoever has the loudest horn goes first. :muffin:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2020, 01:36:01 PM
False. They are two different things.
(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7Rl0mKl8VL0/S9XbgnmQn9I/AAAAAAAAAFM/BASAz-Ay6kw/s1600/Traffic+Circle+vs.+Roundabout+-Letter.pub.gif)
Wow. This is very helpful. Never knew this.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 12:08:42 PM
It's a nice big one that would be amazing to drift. Basically the size of a skidpad.
I attempted it once with my Rx8... i didn't really work out too well, I didn't want to push it too hard though since there's a police station a block from the traffic circle.
Quote from: NomisR on January 23, 2020, 02:13:38 PM
I attempted it once with my Rx8... i didn't really work out too well, I didn't want to push it too hard though since there's a police station a block from the traffic circle.
Yeah I always dream of doing it but never have the balls to push it that hard on the street. Only in autox.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 03:09:20 PM
Yeah I always dream of doing it but never have the balls to push it that hard on the street. Only in autox.
Snow. Go slow and drift.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 23, 2020, 03:19:42 PM
Snow. Go slow and drift.
All the roundabouts here except one are on US41, so they are well maintained...they don't let slippery stuff build up very often.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 23, 2020, 03:19:42 PM
Snow. Go slow and drift.
I've drifted a cloverleaf on-ramp during an ice storm before. That was awesome.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 12:10:45 PM
There's a tiny "roundabout" they installed here in Provo that's like a 5 foot diameter curb in the middle of a normal intersection and they removed the stop/yield signs on the intersecting road so now it's a free for all. But the center circle is so small you barely have to go around it so it's a bit scary. Basically just a free for all 4-way (no)stop. But Europe does similar things - some small towns have dots in the center of the intersection to make it a "roundabout".
We've got a couple like that around here. There's so little space between entries into the round about that it can be tough to actually flow into it and you see people having to stop anyway.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 04:42:02 PM
I've drifted a cloverleaf on-ramp during an ice storm before. That was awesome.
I've done that too.
Unintentionally.
At about 10 MPH in Freightliner that weighed 102,000 lbs.
I shit myself.
Quote from: MX793 on January 23, 2020, 04:52:31 PM
We've got a couple like that around here. There's so little space between entries into the round about that it can be tough to actually flow into it and you see people having to stop anyway.
Yeah there's no time to react to a car already in the circle like larger roundabouts. Once the car enters the roundabout, it's about to hit you.
Compared to regular 4-way intersections, there are fewer side collisions in roundabouts and they when they do happen, they're at much lower speeds.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 23, 2020, 05:09:32 PM
Yeah there's no time to react to a car already in the circle like larger roundabouts. Once the car enters the roundabout, it's about to hit you.
I've seen those in residential areas. There're usually a lot of speed bumps just to keep the traffic from driving too fast.
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 23, 2020, 06:34:43 PM
I've seen those in residential areas. There're usually a lot of speed bumps just to keep the traffic from driving too fast.
No speed bumps, but the speed limit is only 30 mph and the nature of the intersection is such that people are going to be slowing to 15-20 mph. Even when it wasn't a roundabout, people typically slowed to about 20 mph because there's a moderately sharp, blind corner. It's a 3-way intersection with a roundabout that's only about 75 ft across.
But even at those speeds, you don't really have time to blend. Including curvature, the driven distance from entrance to entrance is only about 75 ft. At 15 mph, that's a little over 3 seconds from entrance to entrance. You can go a full circle of the roundabout in 10 seconds.
Quote from: Laconian on January 23, 2020, 06:31:30 PM
Compared to regular 4-way intersections, there are fewer side collisions in roundabouts and they when they do happen, they're at much lower speeds.
Unfortunately, my wife was on the receiving end of one of those collisions a couple of months ago. She was going through the roundabout and a lady came in without stopping and plowed into the side of my wife's minivan. Due to the age of the minivan it was a total loss but my wife wasn't injured.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2020, 01:36:01 PM
False. They are two different things.
Yup - the video mentions the difference. It seems traffic circles had such a bad reputation that roundabouts got massive collateral damage.
Quote from: RomanChariot on January 24, 2020, 08:45:57 AM
Unfortunately, my wife was on the receiving end of one of those collisions a couple of months ago. She was going through the roundabout and a lady came in without stopping and plowed into the side of my wife's minivan. Due to the age of the minivan it was a total loss but my wife wasn't injured.
Center street?
Quote from: Morris Minor on January 24, 2020, 09:49:41 AM
Yup - the video mentions the difference. It seems traffic circles had such a bad reputation that roundabouts got massive collateral damage.
I don't think I've ever driven through or seen a traffic circle TBH
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 24, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
I don't think I've ever driven through or seen a traffic circle TBH
Same.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 24, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
I don't think I've ever driven through or seen a traffic circle TBH
They seem to be the exclusive feature of insufferable gated communities around here.
Quote from: RomanChariot on January 24, 2020, 11:07:02 AM
920 South Freedom
Oh yeah people fly through that one. I'm glad the buses avoid it.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 24, 2020, 10:39:51 AM
I don't think I've ever driven through or seen a traffic circle TBH
Traffic circles are somewhat common in New Jersey.
So that should clue you in to how shitty they are.
I don't think I have ever seen a traffic circle, but roundabouts used to be fairly common here. There is only one left that I drive through occasionally though.
They've become more common in the countryside here and are a great (and perhaps even more environmentally friendly) alternative to traffic lights.
It's hating roundabouts less, they're pretty common in the Columbus, OH area.
Like any decent American, I hated roundabouts when they started popping up, esp. the multi-lane ones (which are NOT intuitive - I actually had to Google how to use them). The short of it is, after some experience, they're WAY better than stoplights overall. But they take up more room and are more expensive to build.
We would have far less suburban gridlock if we used more roundabouts. Imagine if Sultan used them instead of their stoplights. Highway 2 would be a dream.
Quote from: Laconian on January 26, 2020, 01:28:00 PM
We would have far less suburban gridlock if we used more roundabouts. Imagine if Sultan used them instead of their stoplights. Highway 2 would be a dream.
We would have a lot less suburban gridlock if the suburbs had a grid, instead of this ridiculous system of nested cul-de-sacs.
My mom grew up in Mount Vernon, New York, and it's most prominent intersection had a traffic circle that was always known simply as "the circle." In 1972, the circle was taken out and replaced with a regular signaled intersection but most people continued to call the location the circle. The circle had a statue in the center that was moved to an adjacent park.
I went through there about a year ago, for the first time in a long time, and saw that they have put the circle back, including the statue. Another example that everything eventually comes full circle (pardon the pun).