Have people forgotten how to drive? *RANT*

[giant_mtb]

Something Toyotas should implement because I notice their drivers are the most frequent offenders of no headlight

Toyotas and Subarus. Their DRLs are just bright enough and the dashboard is always lit.

But also, on Toys and Subes, you can just leave the headlight switch in the "on" position all the time...when you shut the vehicle off, the headlights will automatically turn off when a door is opened, and then they'll automatically turn on next time you start the vehicle since the switch is On.

[cawimmer430]

Something Toyotas should implement because I notice their drivers are the most frequent offenders of no headlight

That's something I noticed here as well, except here many regular Toyota drivers are horrible drivers and spontaneous lane changers. This also applies to other value brands like Dacia, Fiat and also Renault, and generally beat-up older cars of all brands.

[NomisR]

Last night driving home, same thing, I counted 7 Toyotas with no headlights on, only one of them turned it on when I flashed them, it was a Prius.  Everyone else was completely oblivious to what happened.

[CaminoRacer]

We should send this discovery to all the major automotive media outlets and get them to run shame articles so Toyota can improve their auto headlight feature

[FoMoJo]

Last night driving home, same thing, I counted 7 Toyotas with no headlights on, only one of them turned it on when I flashed them, it was a Prius.  Everyone else was completely oblivious to what happened.

It could be that they didn't know how to turn them on. 

[2o6]

I have a theory:

The backlight on the gauges of Toyota and Nissan are super bright, so people probably don't realize their headlights aren't on.

I've definitely let people borrow my old Yaris, only for them to drive with no lights.

[RomanChariot]

We recently bought a used Honda Pilot and had this issue. We were using the 'auto' setting which works great but sometimes we would forget and turn the headlights to the off position (or one of the children would mess with it) and it was hard to notice because the gauges were still lit up and the DRLs were on. The only easy way to tell is to check the button lights on the stereo and HVAC controls. I would prefer Chevy's method or not have the gauges light up so you have an indication that you need to turn the lights on.

On a separate note, I hate DRLs that can't be easily disabled. There are numerous situations over the years that I have been in where I want my vehicle running but I don't want the DRLs lighting up the world. On my Suburban you can push the parking brake in (even slightly) and it will turn off the DRLs. The BMW that I used to have couldn't be turned off at all. The Pilot you have to turn the vehicle off, press in the emergency brake and then start the vehicle. This works but one of the situations that comes up is driving through Christmas light displays where you are supposed to turn off your lights. I have to stop the vehicle, turn off the engine, put in the parking brake lightly enough that I can still drive it at low speeds and then start the engine again. And then there is the problem that if you go over about 5mph a chime starts blaring at you that the parking brake is engaged and you have to redo the whole process. Can't they just give you a button to temporarily turn off the DRLs?

[MX793]

I have a theory:

The backlight on the gauges of Toyota and Nissan are super bright, so people probably don't realize their headlights aren't on.

I've definitely let people borrow my old Yaris, only for them to drive with no lights.

I tend to run my gauges rather dim at night but bright during the day, so a very bright IP backlight is often an indicator to me that the headlights aren't on.  That's how I knew if I'd forgotten to turn the lights on with my Mazda.  The Mazda also didn't have DRLs, so unless you were in a very well lit neighborhood, you knew your lights were off.

The VW had bright DRLs (90% as bright as having the low beams on), but the IP didn't illuminate unless the headlights were on, so not being able to see the gauges was a good clue that the lights were off.

My current Mustang will auto-dim the IP backlight depending on the ambient lighting conditions, not whether or not the headlights are on.  But, the DRLs on that car don't put out enough light to drive by, so that's my cue.  Though in a well-lit neighborhood, it's still possible to forget to turn your lights on.

The Rav is similar to my Mazda as far as the IP being set much brighter when lights are off vs on, but the DRLs are decently bright.  Not as bright as the VW, but bright enough you could drive by them so long as it's not a super dark night.  More prone to forgetting to turn the lights on with that one.  I actually find that I frequently forget to turn the lights off for some reason.  Maybe because of the DRLs.  It also doesn't sound a chime if you leave the lights on and pull the key out of the ignition and open the door like any other car I've ever owned.  I think they may automatically turn off, but I'm not sure and I'm not willing to risk a dead battery in the middle of winter to find out.  May experiment in the spring.

[FoMoJo]

Are the tail lights on with the DRLs?

[MX793]

Are the tail lights on with the DRLs?

No, which is really the major problem with them.

[AutobahnSHO]

No, which is really the major problem with them.

+1

If the DRLs and dashboard are lit up, some people are just straight up oblivious.

[dazzleman]

I routinely ignore "no u turn" signs because they're only necessary during high traffic times like rush hour.  At 10 pm on a road with light traffic where the perpendicular lanes are clear, there's no reason not to take a u turn.   "No left turn" out of a business parking lot I always ignore if there's light traffic and I have clear views.  I also generally ignore "no right turn on red" if there's light traffic and I have clear views of all lanes.  Generally I have very little confidence in those who determine which traffic signs go where. 

Left lane campers suck.  There is no attempt by any jurisdiction to ever ticket anyone who left lane camps but I think that's because the speed limits on highways in the US is kept too low.  Someone who is driving the speed limit in the left lane is by definition a left lane camper.

I agree with you.  I sometimes ignore bans on u-turns, right on red and left turns at off hours and/or in light traffic when doing so won't cause any problems.

Left lane campers are the worst.  They create danger by forcing people to maneuver to get around them.

[Soup DeVille]

I tend to run my gauges rather dim at night but bright during the day, so a very bright IP backlight is often an indicator to me that the headlights aren't on.  That's how I knew if I'd forgotten to turn the lights on with my Mazda.  The Mazda also didn't have DRLs, so unless you were in a very well lit neighborhood, you knew your lights were off.

The VW had bright DRLs (90% as bright as having the low beams on), but the IP didn't illuminate unless the headlights were on, so not being able to see the gauges was a good clue that the lights were off.

My current Mustang will auto-dim the IP backlight depending on the ambient lighting conditions, not whether or not the headlights are on.  But, the DRLs on that car don't put out enough light to drive by, so that's my cue.  Though in a well-lit neighborhood, it's still possible to forget to turn your lights on.

The Rav is similar to my Mazda as far as the IP being set much brighter when lights are off vs on, but the DRLs are decently bright.  Not as bright as the VW, but bright enough you could drive by them so long as it's not a super dark night.  More prone to forgetting to turn the lights on with that one.  I actually find that I frequently forget to turn the lights off for some reason.  Maybe because of the DRLs.  It also doesn't sound a chime if you leave the lights on and pull the key out of the ignition and open the door like any other car I've ever owned.  I think they may automatically turn off, but I'm not sure and I'm not willing to risk a dead battery in the middle of winter to find out.  May experiment in the spring.

At least on both Land Cruisers, the only Toyotas I've ever owned, the lights will turn off, even if left on in manual.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I agree with you.  I sometimes ignore bans on u-turns, right on red and left turns at off hours and/or in light traffic when doing so won't cause any problems.

Left lane campers are the worst.  They create danger by forcing people to maneuver to get around them.

Left lane camping, on its own, should be an automatic felony with a maximum 1 day in jail and $5000 fine.

[veeman]

A few years ago I had a wonderful nanny who heard me ranting about a left lane camper.  She was a real "safe" driver who always drove the speed limit, which is a good quality for a nanny who drives around your kids.  She told me she often drove in the left lane and sometimes people gave her dirty looks but she didn't care.  I asked her why.  She said that when she drove in the right lane on a highway, merging traffic from on ramps made her nervous.  She never knew if she should pass them or brake to let them merge.  I thought about it for a few seconds and said "oh that makes sense but you should probably drive in the right lane and when you see merging traffic, move over to the left lane if it's clear and then move back into the right lane.  Really, you have the right of way and merging traffic should yield to you but I agree it can be tricky."  I doubt she listened to me.

I didn't care too much.  I've had nannies who I've fired because they were terrible drivers. One lady who was in her late 60s but didn't look it because she was thin and had a lot of plastic surgery couldn't see right.  Her car was all scraped up on all sides which should have been a warning to me.  She bumped another driver at low speed in a school pick up line, dented my car's rear bumper backing up into a retaining wall at my house, and drove hunched over the steering wheel with both hands tightly gripping the top of it.  Another lady kept scraping the sides of my car against the garage door side wall.  She then slammed into another car on the highway because she didn't notice it had braked (luckily my kids weren't in it).  She was also in general just a distracted driver. 

A left lane camper I could live with.  Usually she wouldn't be on the highway with my kids anyways.

[dazzleman]

A few years ago I had a wonderful nanny who heard me ranting about a left lane camper.  She was a real "safe" driver who always drove the speed limit, which is a good quality for a nanny who drives around your kids.  She told me she often drove in the left lane and sometimes people gave her dirty looks but she didn't care.  I asked her why.  She said that when she drove in the right lane on a highway, merging traffic from on ramps made her nervous.  She never knew if she should pass them or brake to let them merge.  I thought about it for a few seconds and said "oh that makes sense but you should probably drive in the right lane and when you see merging traffic, move over to the left lane if it's clear and then move back into the right lane.  Really, you have the right of way and merging traffic should yield to you but I agree it can be tricky."  I doubt she listened to me.

I didn't care too much.  I've had nannies who I've fired because they were terrible drivers. One lady who was in her late 60s but didn't look it because she was thin and had a lot of plastic surgery couldn't see right.  Her car was all scraped up on all sides which should have been a warning to me.  She bumped another driver at low speed in a school pick up line, dented my car's rear bumper backing up into a retaining wall at my house, and drove hunched over the steering wheel with both hands tightly gripping the top of it.  Another lady kept scraping the sides of my car against the garage door side wall.  She then slammed into another car on the highway because she didn't notice it had braked (luckily my kids weren't in it).  She was also in general just a distracted driver. 

A left lane camper I could live with.  Usually she wouldn't be on the highway with my kids anyways.

Some roads have too much traffic volume for the keep right/pass left ideal to work.  Traffic volume requires the use of all lanes for things to move at all.

Some of your nannies had great driving skills...

[veeman]

Some roads have too much traffic volume for the keep right/pass left ideal to work.  Traffic volume requires the use of all lanes for things to move at all.

Some of your nannies had great driving skills...

On nanny interviews I now have the person get in my Camry and drive to the kids' school with me in the passenger seat on the pretense that I want to show them where the school is.  I'm really assessing their confidence and competence in driving to an unfamiliar address.  Do they look and act nervous or not.  They still might suck at it but I can at least potentially weed out someone who royally sucks at driving. 

[dazzleman]

On nanny interviews I now have the person get in my Camry and drive to the kids' school with me in the passenger seat on the pretense that I want to show them where the school is.  I'm really assessing their confidence and competence in driving to an unfamiliar address.  Do they look and act nervous or not.  They still might suck at it but I can at least potentially weed out someone who royally sucks at driving.

That's a good technique.   Do your nannies know about your propensity for lead foot speeding? 

[FoMoJo]

On nanny interviews I now have the person get in my Camry and drive to the kids' school with me in the passenger seat on the pretense that I want to show them where the school is.  I'm really assessing their confidence and competence in driving to an unfamiliar address.  Do they look and act nervous or not.  They still might suck at it but I can at least potentially weed out someone who royally sucks at driving. 

Do you check to see if they have a driver's license?

[dazzleman]

Do you check to see if they have a driver's license?

Having a driver's license doesn't mean you know how to drive.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Having a driver's license doesn't mean you know how to drive.

Law of the Universe #4

[CaminoRacer]

Having a driver's license doesn't mean you know how to drive.

If we had the resources, I think it would be a good idea to make people take the driving test every 4-5 years when they renew their license.

[FoMoJo]

Having a driver's license doesn't mean you know how to drive.

The mystery is how some of them passed in first place.

[veeman]

For the past decade we've contracted with an overpriced caregiver agency that does background checks etc.  If the nanny doesn't work out, gets sick, or can't make it for any reason, the agency provides a substitute.  They also provide nannies for interviews when one doesn't work out or leaves.  We've had a lot of turnover.  It's cheaper to get an au pair, usually a young woman from another country who lives with you, but I don't want to have someone live with us. 

I don't check the nanny's "papers".  My assumption is the agency has screened them for felonies, DUI, whatever.  These aren't "craigslist" or "backpage" caregivers although I'm sure many people who post nanny services there are fine. 

The nannies kind of know I have a lead foot but not really.  Usually when I'm in the car with them, they're driving me in their car to and from the dealership where I dropped off my car for service.

Some of the Indian ethnicity folks I know have an older Indian lady watch their young kids.  That's cheaper but the problem is they usually can't drive and the nannies main job is to drive our kids around. 

If someone came up with a dedicated Uber for kids (where the driver is a woman and keeps parents aware via text when they picked up and when they dropped off, and made sure the kids got to where they needed to go) they would make a killing. 

[dazzleman]

The mystery is how some of them passed in first place.

It's not really a mystery.  The test is too easy, and once you pass that flimsy test, you are never tested again.  I have not had my driving tested in any way since the state passed me, on the basis of a drive around the block, basically, over 41 years ago.

[veeman]

I think it would be very hard to make a test which weeds out bad drivers who already have their license, outside of a simple vision test. 

A lot of places you need to be able to drive to get to work.  You fail a person, you're taking away their livelihood and therefore the well-being of their kids.  How would you test for poor reflexes?  Or general inattentiveness?  Or texting?  Or left lane camping?  You could make a test for knowledge about what various signs mean but that's rarely the culprit of a bad driver. 

You'll also have all the race/gender bullshit politics of who got failed and why and by whom.

Not to mention the massive cost and cost of everyone missing a morning or afternoon of work.

I think we're just stuck. 

[FoMoJo]

The only reason for autonomous cars.

[dazzleman]

I think it would be very hard to make a test which weeds out bad drivers who already have their license, outside of a simple vision test. 

A lot of places you need to be able to drive to get to work.  You fail a person, you're taking away their livelihood and therefore the well-being of their kids.  How would you test for poor reflexes?  Or general inattentiveness?  Or texting?  Or left lane camping?  You could make a test for knowledge about what various signs mean but that's rarely the culprit of a bad driver. 

You'll also have all the race/gender bullshit politics of who got failed and why and by whom.

Not to mention the massive cost and cost of everyone missing a morning or afternoon of work.

I think we're just stuck.

It would be very costly to administer regular testing, and any type of in-depth testing would be even more expensive

Theoretically, people can be retested if they have too many accidents, but I never really hear about that happening

I think maybe stronger training requirements when people first learn to drive, coupled with a harder initial test, would improve the situation.

[Laconian]

It would be very costly to administer regular testing, and any type of in-depth testing would be even more expensive

Theoretically, people can be retested if they have too many accidents, but I never really hear about that happening

I think maybe stronger training requirements when people first learn to drive, coupled with a harder initial test, would improve the situation.

Society pays the cost of having shitty drivers in the form of accidents, injuries, deaths, and being unnecessarily slowed down in the left lane. I think it's cheaper to test!

[AutobahnSHO]

The issue that causes many scared drivers to left lane camp is people don't know how to accelerate and merge. So you have idiots doing 10-20mph too slow when they try to merge.

Years ago Montana ran tv ads that explained how to do it. Supposedly it helped a lot!

I think signs at the bottom of the ramp "Speed limit X" and "Accelerate Now" could help?