Genesis G70 - MT Car of the Year

[12,000 RPM]

Fuck it, I have to ask. Do we really need another backwards looking sports sedan?

Another driver's car to drive. Where? Traffic? Way way way too fast on a back road? Track day?

New vs used is a little unfair, but enthusiasts don't give a fuck. $50K Hyundai, or M3, CTS-V, 911, etc, with less depreciation.............?

Meanwhile, still no sustainable revenue generating crossovers, and no show stopping high end EVs like that e-tron GT

How many times do we have to do the same thing over and over, and try to recreate a moment that's gone? The 2002 & 3 series succeeded because they were new ideas that were perfect for the time. Does this car jive with today? The whole exercise feels like a midlife crisis.

[2o6]

this thread is the reason why automakers don't make anything fun anymore.

[BimmerM3]

No shit.  I mean besides that...the body/styling, the interior, virtually everything is different on an Escalade now compared to its chassis siblings.  When they first came out, it was leather, a different grille, and different badges.

I think you need to go to a dealership and sit in a Tahoe and then go sit in an Escalade.

I guess I just would have worded it differently. You're gonna need to give me a whole lot more than a few body panels and a few interior changes before I start considering an Escalade to be anything more than a Tahoe with fancy bits (not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that).

[RomanChariot]

Yep. The interior is just new leather except for a new dashboard, instrument cluster, steering wheel, center stack, seats and door panels. All of those items except the seats require custom tooling that is dedicated to the Escalade.

[MrH]

Yeah, the interior is so different, it's essentially a totally different car from a development standpoint. Different instrument panel, substrates, manufacturing processes, everything.

[giant_mtb]

I guess I just would have worded it differently. You're gonna need to give me a whole lot more than a few body panels and a few interior changes before I start considering an Escalade to be anything more than a Tahoe with fancy bits (not that there's necessarily anything wrong with that).

So...virtually everything about the vehicle besides the frame and drivetrain is different...but that's not enough for you?  I'm confused. You're putting way too much emphasis on the fact that they share underpinnings.  All cars share underpinnings. Lincolns are Fords. Maybachs are Benzes. Audis are VWs. Lexuses are Toyotas. Acuras are Hondas. Cadillacs are, well, Chevies. 

[FoMoJo]

So...virtually everything about the vehicle besides the frame and drivetrain is different...but that's not enough for you?  I'm confused. You're putting way too much emphasis on the fact that they share underpinnings.  All cars share underpinnings. Lincolns are Fords. Maybachs are Benzes. Audis are VWs. Lexuses are Toyotas. Acuras are Hondas. Cadillacs are, well, Chevies. 

So you're saying that Lexus is nothing but a pimped up Toyota.

I tend to agree.

[12,000 RPM]

Pimping is good. My wife was not impressed by the Edge but loves her MKX. I don't think she realized they were the same car until a bit later.

[giant_mtb]

So you're saying that Lexus is nothing but a pimped up Toyota.

I tend to agree.

Yeah, but to write off a vehicle because it shares underpinnings is silly. Human beings all share underpinnings. But we're all entirely different. (Great analogy, righ?)

[FoMoJo]

Yeah, but to write off a vehicle because it shares underpinnings is silly. Human beings all share underpinnings. But we're all entirely different. (Great analogy, righ?)

I agree.  My Discovery Sport underpinnings were derived from the Ford D3/D4 platform originally derived from the Volvo P2 platform and is shared throughout many vehicles; some too embarrassed to admit it.

[BimmerM3]

So...virtually everything about the vehicle besides the frame and drivetrain is different...but that's not enough for you?  I'm confused. You're putting way too much emphasis on the fact that they share underpinnings.  All cars share underpinnings. Lincolns are Fords. Maybachs are Benzes. Audis are VWs. Lexuses are Toyotas. Acuras are Hondas. Cadillacs are, well, Chevies. 

And I don't really feel any differently about most of those vehicles, at least the ones that directly translate across brands. It's just semantics... not that big of a deal.

[2o6]

An S2000 is just a sideways Civic!

[GoCougs]

I really doubt there's any cost savings anymore to building BOF vehicles. It was true at one time, yes; but I doubt it still is.

I'm betting there is cost savings. Thing is, with BOF, it's easier (cheaper) to change body design since it is separated from chassis design - see the height of the BoF design period (post WWII into the early '60s) whereby every car was different by the year. When things went unit body, design cycles shifted to the 5-10 year cycles we see today. What with ever increasing homogenized systems (esp. safety and electronic) the savings is probably less, but my bet is it's still there.

[Soup DeVille]

An S2000 is just a sideways Civic!

You shut your mouth!!!!

[Eye of the Tiger]

You shut your mouth!!!!

An upside down Civic?

[r0tor]

An S2000 is just a sideways Civic!

Is that Texan "sideways" which means f'd up?

[cawimmer430]

What I find interesting is that the base version is available with a manual transmission.

I find this interesting because... well... WILL IT SELL?

BMW has canned the stick shift for the new 3er heading towards North America because "nobody is buying them." As far as I am aware Audi does not offer a stick in the A4 anymore. What Acura product competes here and does it still come with a stick? It seems that very few people in this class want to row their own gears and manufacturers are thus justified in removing a feature that does not sell to the majority of buyers and represents a profitability loss.

So why does Hyundai offer a stick in a car which is... or at least to me... seems to be more luxury focused than sport? Seems to me like a weird move, a money-losing move! I just can't imagine someone who used to buy BMW 3ers with a stick switching over to a Hyundai Genesis G70 just for the privilege of rowing their own gears. Admittedly I've not been keeping up with reviews about this car but "sport" and "handling" and "fun" are not exactly words that come to mind when you hear the words Hyundai/Genesis.

[12,000 RPM]

I can't really knock MT's choice here. As I understand it their COTY choice has to be brand new or significantly revised, and it has to be a car. I think they are only allowed to choose a car once too. My pick would have been the Accord but I'm certain that was on the list already

Otherwise I mostly agree. The conditions necessary to enjoy a car like this on a regular basis is a fantasy for most people.

[Soup DeVille]

I can't really knock MT's choice here. As I understand it their COTY choice has to be brand new or significantly revised, and it has to be a car. I think they are only allowed to choose a car once too. My pick would have been the Accord but I'm certain that was on the list already

Otherwise I mostly agree. The conditions necessary to enjoy a car like this on a regular basis is a fantasy for most people.

Previous year's winner is also in. 

[veeman]

What I find interesting is that the base version is available with a manual transmission.

I find this interesting because... well... WILL IT SELL?

BMW has canned the stick shift for the new 3er heading towards North America because "nobody is buying them." As far as I am aware Audi does not offer a stick in the A4 anymore. What Acura product competes here and does it still come with a stick? It seems that very few people in this class want to row their own gears and manufacturers are thus justified in removing a feature that does not sell to the majority of buyers and represents a profitability loss.

So why does Hyundai offer a stick in a car which is... or at least to me... seems to be more luxury focused than sport? Seems to me like a weird move, a money-losing move! I just can't imagine someone who used to buy BMW 3ers with a stick switching over to a Hyundai Genesis G70 just for the privilege of rowing their own gears. Admittedly I've not been keeping up with reviews about this car but "sport" and "handling" and "fun" are not exactly words that come to mind when you hear the words Hyundai/Genesis.

I think someone who has previously owned a WRX/WRX STI or BRZ/Toyota 86 who wants more refinement/luxury, would be drawn to a manual Genesis.  I doubt Hyundai thinks they'll sell a lot of the manual versions, but any way to differentiate themselves in a good way from the German/Japanese establishment is a good thing.  There's a small market but still a market for manuals.  Mustangs, Camaros, Challengers, Wranglers, Civics, and a few others still have substantial manual sales.

[r0tor]

I'd wager the manual option is there first and foremost for a cheaper entry price

[12,000 RPM]

Its not 1993.... manuals costs manufacturers money

Its probably the box from the Genesis coupe (do they make that anymore)... but they still have to emissions/fuel economy/crash test this and take on the risk of a variant nobody will buy

[BimmerM3]

I'd wager the manual option is there first and foremost for a cheaper entry price

Well you'd be wrong. C'mon, these things take like 30 seconds to check.

[r0tor]

Then it's just dumb... BMW has shown the actual demand for manuals is at the higher end of the performance range (ie finding the enthusiasts)

Who wants to trade a manual for 110hp... Lexus tried and epically failed with that in the IS

[12,000 RPM]

Then it's just dumb... BMW has shown the actual demand for manuals is at the higher end of the performance range (ie finding the enthusiasts)

Then when did they cancel the manual in the 340i?

We have to have facts. The manual is dying

[93JC]

I just can’t imagine someone who used to buy BMW 3ers with a stick switching over to a Hyundai Genesis G70 just for the privilege of rowing their own gears. Admittedly I’ve not been keeping up with reviews about this car but “sport” and “handling” and “fun” are not exactly words that come to mind when you hear the words Hyundai/Genesis.

I've driven my friend's G70; "sport", "handling" and "fun" are pretty good descriptors. (Granted, his is a 3.3T.)

I really liked the Audi A4 I rented for 10 days in October, but I can safely say the Genesis would have run circles around it and I doubt it's much of a stretch from Audi A4 to BMW 3-series.

[r0tor]

Then when did they cancel the manual in the 340i?

We have to have facts. The manual is dying

The manual is dying... Except for the small enthusiast population.  Problem is that market doesn't want to pick between having a manual in an underpowered car and an automatic in a fast car - they will go elsewhere to find the manual in the fast car.

[12,000 RPM]

Even with the stick + big engine + available AWD the 3 series manual take was pathetic. You can get a decently equipped 340i 6MT for about what a loaded G7 3.3T costs... probably less with incentives... people still didn't jump. If BMW can't sell a 6 banger 6MT 3er for $55K to enough people to bring it back, what makes you think Hyundai can?

I'd wager for most enthusiasts, real life issues like bumper to bumper traffic trump the fantasies of rev matching a downshift + trail braking into a hair pin, and then getting the tail out on the way out. The daily commute is way shittier than it used to be for most people which renders the manual a no go

[r0tor]

So if you are not going to offer a manual as a cheaper entry option - then why not offer it to the segment that *might* actually want it or just not offer it at all?

[CALL_911]

Not at all a suggestion that manuals should be brought back into the mainstream, but I just got back into the GTI after about a month of only driving automatics. I can now def say I will try my absolute hardest to stay in a manual car as long as I can. It's just more fun, even if it's objectively worse.