Genesis G70 - MT Car of the Year

Started by veeman, December 03, 2018, 08:49:13 AM

SJ_GTI

Quote from: CALL_911 on December 07, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
Not at all a suggestion that manuals should be brought back into the mainstream, but I just got back into the GTI after about a month of only driving automatics. I can now def say I will try my absolute hardest to stay in a manual car as long as I can. It's just more fun, even if it's objectively worse.

Yeah same for me. I know my 6MT is slower than an equivalent automatic but I enjoy it more. The occasional use of an automatic car always makes me appreciate getting back to a manual.

The traffic complaints mentioned by 12,000 RPM never really bothered me. I don't have much traffic now anyway, but even when I was living in Montreal, Toronto, and closer to Philly (where a ~12 mile commute could mean anywhere from ~45 to ~90 minutes) it never bother me either. using a clutch is so second nature that it feels weirder to me to drive an automatic.

12,000 RPM

Everyone has their preferences, but I think it really depends on the cars being compared. Going from a Golf R/GTI to a run of the mill rental car isn't really a 1:1 comparison. Plus some manuals are just not good. Every Nissan manual I've driven/owned was awful. So it's def case by case for me
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

BimmerM3

#62
Quote from: CALL_911 on December 07, 2018, 07:30:21 AM
Not at all a suggestion that manuals should be brought back into the mainstream, but I just got back into the GTI after about a month of only driving automatics. I can now def say I will try my absolute hardest to stay in a manual car as long as I can. It's just more fun, even if it's objectively worse.

I could see myself enjoying a good shiftable automatic/DCT as much as a manual in a DD. I care more about being in the right gear at the right time than I do about about actually pressing the clutch and moving the shifter. That's most of my frustration with the auto in the Explorer - it's pretty smooth and shifts fairly quickly for a 12 year old automatic, but even after nearly four years, I still don't really like it's decision making.

r0tor

The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

CaminoRacer

Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 07, 2018, 09:54:12 AM
I could see myself enjoying a good shiftable automatic/DCT as much as a manual in a DD. I care more about being in the right gear at the right time than I do about about actually pressing the clutch and moving the shifter. That's most of my frustration with the auto in the Explorer - it's pretty smooth and shifts fairly quickly for a 12 year old automatic, but even after nearly four years, I still don't really like it's decision making.

Yes.

I actually prefer torque converters, but I want to be in charge of the gear selection.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Xer0

Quote from: r0tor on December 07, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).

That's an 8 spd right?  I remember driving my cousin's V6 TLX with a 9spd and while the first few gears were fun to use the paddles for, by the time you start getting into 5-9 you just get annoyed.  You never remember what gear you're in and they are spaced so close that they feel the same half time so you have to drop down like 4 gear to get any sort of appreciable acceleration change but you can't skip so you space out as you just keep hitting the paddles and by the time you get the gear you want you've accelerated to a speed that needs a higher gear so back you go.  Meh.

r0tor

^ yea pretty much.

It's fine for when you find a good road and then are able to hold gears and only change a few.  But cycling between 1-8 repeatedly?  Yea no

The ZF 8 speed is a fantastic transmission.  But if paired with a turbo engine with tons of torque, it would be even better as a 6 speed... But then that would lose the spec war
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

FoMoJo

Quote from: Xer0 on December 07, 2018, 10:29:19 AM
That's an 8 spd right?  I remember driving my cousin's V6 TLX with a 9spd and while the first few gears were fun to use the paddles for, by the time you start getting into 5-9 you just get annoyed.  You never remember what gear you're in and they are spaced so close that they feel the same half time so you have to drop down like 4 gear to get any sort of appreciable acceleration change but you can't skip so you space out as you just keep hitting the paddles and by the time you get the gear you want you've accelerated to a speed that needs a higher gear so back you go.  Meh.
I've never bothered with the paddles in my car.  Just seems like a waste of time.  Their only functional in sport mode and I haven't even bothered switching to sport mode.  Why manufacturers think it's necessary to provide paddle shift in a SUV/CUV is beyond me.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 07, 2018, 10:25:51 AM
Yes.

I actually prefer torque converters, but I want to be in charge of the gear selection.

Me, too. I want a stick shift with a torque converter.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

r0tor

I like the manual mode in the Jeep for holding speed going down mountains and in shitty weather.  That's really my only ever use for it.
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

BimmerM3

Quote from: r0tor on December 07, 2018, 10:16:03 AM
The alfa is fun in manual mode but just has too many gears to really enjoy using manual mode in 90% of driving (especially since you can't skip gears).

Yeah, I could see that. Most of my experience with DCTs is my dad's A4 (7-speed), but I've mostly driven it around town, so I was mostly rowing through the lower gears.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:37:55 AM
I've never bothered with the paddles in my car.  Just seems like a waste of time.  Their only functional in sport mode and I haven't even bothered switching to sport mode.  Why manufacturers think it's necessary to provide paddle shift in a SUV/CUV is beyond me.

Most paddle shifters are infuriatingly disconnected from the act of shifting. Some just say screw you, human, I don't want to shift.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

FoMoJo

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 10:40:13 AM
Me, too. I want a stick shift with a torque converter.
Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:44:36 AM
Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.

I've only read about them, but I think it would be sweet.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

BimmerM3

#74
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 07, 2018, 10:44:36 AM
Get yourself an old Chrysler fluid drive, circa early 50s. 

A friend, way back then, had a Dodge with fluid drive and 3 on the tree.  Weird setup.  Leave it in 3rd gear and accelerate from a stop.  Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock.

:lol:

I launched in 5th in my old Accord once or twice just to see what it'd feel like. "Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock" is a great description, and I'm sure it's even more accurate for that old Dodge.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 07, 2018, 10:47:44 AM
:lol:

I launched in 5th in my old Accord once or twice just to see what it'd feel like. "Sort of like the Queen Mary leaving the dock" is a great description.

But the smell is different.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

CaminoRacer

One time I had to launch my motorcycle in 6th gear, because a bolt had backed out and was blocking me from down-shifting. Luckily there was a gas station right there so I could put the bolt back in its place.

It was surprisingly not difficult to get it going. 6th is barely an overdrive gear, though. Like 0.97:1
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 10:46:18 AM
I've only read about them, but I think it would be sweet.

Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.

Auto-manual valve bodies is the best. You can leave it in D if you're lazy, or shift it yourself and it'll obediently hold the gears.

Combine that with a 383 SBC and a 3000-3500 stall converter and you have a damn fun car.
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

12,000 RPM

What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 07, 2018, 12:28:06 PM
Shift reprogramming kits and manual valve bodies are available for most old-school automatics.

I'll get a manual valve bodied 700R4 for my GMC, and anything that I happen to do an LS swap in.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

God dramn revving to 3000 RPM before the car starts moving? Fuel economy? Noise complaints?
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

Soup DeVille

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

Below the stall speed you're mostly just churning ATF. Yeah, you'll move, but not as efficiently.

Buick had for a while two-speed stall converters and they're still somewhat popular amongst hot rodders.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

r0tor

I believe my JGC has a fairly high stall speed.  It tends to use it as a cvt and unlocks the torque converter to handle more load before downshifting... Results in a smooth mushy throttle response
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

Soup DeVille

lock-up torque converters (so, all modern ones) tend to have higher stall speeds.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

CaminoRacer

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 12:36:14 PM
God dramn revving to 3000 RPM before the car starts moving? Fuel economy? Noise complaints?

I consider all of those positives. :praise:

(a lock-up converter basically solves the fuel economy thing)
2020 BMW 330i, 1969 El Camino, 2017 Bolt EV

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: CaminoRacer on December 07, 2018, 02:28:33 PM
I consider all of those positives. :praise:

(a lock-up converter basically solves the fuel economy thing)

And I want a manual switch for the TCC on the shift knob. Manumatic. Fuck computers.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

GoCougs

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 07, 2018, 12:35:08 PM
What is the downside to a high stall TC on a street car?

Mostly durability. Below stall speed much of the engine power is put into the ATF as heat, and it can quickly overheat an AT, such as cruising on the freeway below stall speed.

Soup DeVille

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on December 07, 2018, 02:50:24 PM
And I want a manual switch for the TCC on the shift knob. Manumatic. Fuck computers.

Its possible. Some people hack theirs to do that with the Ford AOD, because its sometimes wonky.
Maybe we need to start off small. I mean, they don't let you fuck the glumpers at Glumpees without a level 4 FuckPass, do they?

1975 Honda CB750, 1986 Rebel Rascal (sailing dinghy), 2015 Mini Cooper, 2020 Winnebago 31H (E450), 2021 Toyota 4Runner, 2022 Lincoln Aviator

12,000 RPM

I did not know old TCs didn't have lock up. Learn something every day
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs