http://www.autoblog.com/2008/09/09/same-old-shtick-iihs-wants-to-delay-licenses-for-teens
Is it just me or do people depend on way too many other people to raise their kids? Parents don't parent anymore.....good parents would enstill in their kids how to work, how to do things. The driving age roughly 30 years ago was 14, with no restrictions. And 30 years ago, it was with cars that were less safe, and harder to drive than what we have now.
It's more strain on the parents, more strain on the kids if it were to be raised.
Cars are faster now, there are more cars on the road and in general the driving ability has gone down...
And they can raise the driving age if they want. I already got mine, don't care about anyone else. :devil: :lol:
I tend to agree, there is very little difference in the maturity of a 18 year old and a 16 year old. If we're going to raise it we'll have to take it all the way to 25 to make difference. But, there should definitely be more restrictions on under 18 drivers (no cell, limited number of passengers, curfew, etc) and tougher experience requirements.
Quote from: TBR on September 09, 2008, 03:17:38 PM
I tend to agree, there is very little difference in the maturity of a 18 year old and a 16 year old. If we're going to raise it we'll have to take it all the way to 25 to make difference. But, there should definitely be more restrictions on under 18 drivers (no cell, limited number of passengers, curfew, etc) and tougher experience requirements.
Don't you guys have all that already? In CA it's like that... If you're under 18 and have had your license for less than a year you can't drive after 11 or drive anyone under 20. California already has the no cell phone while driving policy (though I thought that was a nationwide thing).
Quote from: thecarnut on September 09, 2008, 03:20:20 PM
Don't you guys have all that already? In CA it's like that... If you're under 18 and have had your license for less than a year you can't drive after 11 or drive anyone under 20. California already has the no cell phone while driving policy (though I thought that was a nationwide thing).
It isn't. TX has some restrictions, but they're not as tough as I'd like.
Don't raise the driving age, raise the standards of drivers' education. That'll solve the problem.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 09, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Don't raise the driving age, raise the standards of drivers' education. That'll solve the problem.
agreed, tho I'm not sure it'll go so far as to solve anything
If you raise the driving age, then the most dangerous drivers would be that age.
Maturity has a little to do with it. Experience has a lot more, I'd say.
I wouldn't mind linking a GWVR limit to a graduated license system. Stupid teens and big trucks, bad combo.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 09, 2008, 04:25:54 PM
Don't raise the driving age, raise the standards of drivers' education. That'll solve the problem.
I'm afraid I don't agree. That assumes that knowing how to do the right thing automatically means that you will. Unfortunately, that's not true.
Don't get me wrong. I believe in higher licensing standards. But maturity is part of the issue. Sometimes a big part.
Having said that, I'm not sold on raising the driving age. We have to allow kids freedom at some point. We seem to be on a trend to keep pushing it back, delaying the onset of adulthood further and further. I don't think this is a good trend. Sometimes, you have to do things to gain maturity, and delaying is not always the answer.
I'm all for driver's education in high school, but we'll reach a point of negative returns with the whole restriction thing. Modern America is built on the automobile. Driving is ingrained in youth culture and youth identity. In a lot of ways it's also a necessity for many teenagers and their families.
America can't really afford a driver's licensing program like Germany, as much as we all want it.
And you guys are awfully doom and gloom about the state of American roadways. Despite the drastic increase in traffic we have reduced the number of fatalities per miles driven.
Maybe society just needs to take a step back and realize living is dangerous, and sometimes that's a fact you can't avoid.
Quote from: Tave on September 09, 2008, 07:37:11 PM
I'm all for driver's education in high school, but we'll reach a point of negative returns with the whole restriction thing. Modern America is built on the automobile. Driving is ingrained in youth culture and youth identity. In a lot of ways it's also a necessity for many teenagers and their families.
America can't really afford a driver's licensing program like Germany, as much as we all want it.
And you guys are awfully doom and gloom about the state of American roadways. Despite the drastic increase in traffic we have reduced the number of fatalities per miles driven.
Maybe society just needs to take a step back and realize living is dangerous, and sometimes that's a fact you can't avoid.
Our society has become so ridiculously risk-averse. We just can't accept the fact that we can't protect ourselves from every possible danger out there, and that beyond a certain point, it becomes self-defeating to try.
Quote from: dazzleman on September 09, 2008, 07:21:39 PM
I'm afraid I don't agree. That assumes that knowing how to do the right thing automatically means that you will. Unfortunately, that's not true.
Don't get me wrong. I believe in higher licensing standards. But maturity is part of the issue. Sometimes a big part.
Having said that, I'm not sold on raising the driving age. We have to allow kids freedom at some point. We seem to be on a trend to keep pushing it back, delaying the onset of adulthood further and further. I don't think this is a good trend. Sometimes, you have to do things to gain maturity, and delaying is not always the answer.
A lot of people forget maturity doesn't happen on its own, people have to be given responsibility before they can develop maturity, the cart HAS to go before the horse before it can go behind the horse.
Quote from: TBR on September 09, 2008, 07:48:33 PM
A lot of people forget maturity doesn't happen on its own, people have to be given responsibility before they can develop maturity, the cart HAS to go before the horse before it can go behind the horse.
I think that's true to a point. Maturity doesn't develop in a vacuum.
Most guys don't become 'mature' drivers until they're around 30, sometimes later. Maturity comes gradually. I don't think there's a huge advance between 16 and 18.
I think that all states should institute graduated licensing systems at least between the ages of 15 1/2 and 18. Maturity not withstanding, driving is a learned skill where mistakes can carry very serious consequences. As a driver gains experience over time, then they should be given greater leeway in the conditions in which they can drive.
Unfortunately, such a system doesn't have any effect on "maturity." The thing is, what we think of as "maturity" in teenagers (ie, decision-making skills), also has a biological factor. Science now knows that teenagers are more likely to take risks in their behavior because neurological pathways that cognitively connect actions to consequences aren't complete in the teenage brain. When a teenager says "I just didn't think about it" when asked why they made a stupid choice, in a way, they're being honest. You can't train this out of a teen...it's a process that only time changes as those neurological pathways are completed in the brain.
I still think it's funny a 16 year old can take a test in a geo metro then walk to the parking lot and be legal to drive a RV or F350 with a 40' horse trailer.
It's inevitable, for various reasons - not the least of which is qualitative notion continued of ever-ratcheting stunting of young adult maturity with each passing generation plus the quantitative fact that car wrecks are the #1 killer of teens.
Quote from: TBR on September 09, 2008, 07:48:33 PM
A lot of people forget maturity doesn't happen on its own, people have to be given responsibility before they can develop maturity, the cart HAS to go before the horse before it can go behind the horse.
People have to take responsibility, not wait around until someone decides to give it to them. It is not the duty of others to see that a person matures. It is up to the individual.
Quote from: Raza on September 09, 2008, 06:27:24 PM
If you raise the driving age, then the most dangerous drivers would be that age.
Maturity has a little to do with it. Experience has a lot more, I'd say.
Ding. there are a LOT of older "mature" drivers that can't drive worth a crap. Age has nothing to do with it, just experience and training.
Quote from: bing_oh on September 09, 2008, 10:55:29 PM
I think that all states should institute graduated licensing systems at least between the ages of 15 1/2 and 18. Maturity not withstanding, driving is a learned skill where mistakes can carry very serious consequences. As a driver gains experience over time, then they should be given greater leeway in the conditions in which they can drive.
Unfortunately, such a system doesn't have any effect on "maturity." The thing is, what we think of as "maturity" in teenagers (ie, decision-making skills), also has a biological factor. Science now knows that teenagers are more likely to take risks in their behavior because neurological pathways that cognitively connect actions to consequences aren't complete in the teenage brain. When a teenager says "I just didn't think about it" when asked why they made a stupid choice, in a way, they're being honest. You can't train this out of a teen...it's a process that only time changes as those neurological pathways are completed in the brain.
And that's why all teens drive the same and they all get into fatal accidents. Especially those with advanced training, like is found a the Tire Rack/BMW CCA Street Survival training classes.
Hmmm...
There is no need to raise the driving age, since as someone else pointed out there is an assumed risk level for drivers up to age 25. Instead, make driver's education mandatory, and make sure it includes hands-on training on car control and emergency maneuvers. That would put the work load on the shoulders of the one seeking to earn a liscense, and it would hopefully produce higher quality drivers. Plus it would create jobs (driving teachers).
Quote from: Champ on September 10, 2008, 07:33:41 AM
I still think it's funny a 16 year old can take a test in a geo metro then walk to the parking lot and be legal to drive a RV or F350 with a 40' horse trailer.
Wouldn't an RV require a class C endorsement?
Last I heard, RVs, at least wherever I've lived, aren't commercial, and so require no endorsement.
Quote from: R-inge on September 10, 2008, 10:48:22 AM
Wouldn't an RV require a class C endorsement?
Nope!
At least not in MN..
Depends - if said RV is 45' diesel pusher with air brakes, I'd be mega surprised that it didn't require add'l licensing.
It's got to do with GVWR, I believe:
http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml (http://changingears.com/rv-sec-state-rv-license.shtml)
Dumbass politics:
Damn...too many teens die in car accidents...wait a minute...I know! Let's transpose all the bad drivers from 16 to 18. Let's see here:
Currently there are teen drivers from 16 to 19 years old.
16
17
18
19
If we take out the 16 and 17 year olds, this will successfully cut the number of teen driving fatalities in half! Plus, 18 and 19 year olds crash less than 16 and 17 year olds, so the fatalities will be even less than half!
Mission accomplished! Vote for me in November!
Don't change a thing... dumb people will always find another way of offing themselves
Quote from: GoCougs on September 10, 2008, 07:53:00 AM
People have to take responsibility, not wait around until someone decides to give it to them. It is not the duty of others to see that a person matures. It is up to the individual.
I agree, but that isn't applicable in this situation since this particular responsibility is government regulated.
I still say a yellow stripe on the front and back bumper would be a good idea. Just like in Nascar. It may not be a bad idea. Some visual id of a young driver. Drivers need experience but also self control.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 10, 2008, 11:39:05 AM
Depends - if said RV is 45' diesel pusher with air brakes, I'd be mega surprised that it didn't require add'l licensing.
As long as you are hauling your own personal property for your own personal, non-commercial purposes, it doesn't.
New drivers in Japan must display this decal on their cars for a year:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/ee/Wakaba_mark.svg/150px-Wakaba_mark.svg.png)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shoshinsha_mark
I find the most hazardous drivers on the road display this sign:
(http://www.babyretail.co.uk/acatalog/safety1st_baby_on_board_sign_lge.jpg)
Quote from: dsred on September 13, 2008, 12:08:43 PM
I find the most hazardous drivers on the road display this sign:
(http://www.babyretail.co.uk/acatalog/safety1st_baby_on_board_sign_lge.jpg)
i've noticed that, too. babies really suck at driving