I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.
Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.
you can flog a Crown Vic all day, take it off road, and use it to pit maneuver every car in sight, and it will still ask for more. Not so much with the Taurus.
you should buy a Crown Vic.
Quote from: Vinsanity on December 05, 2009, 03:46:02 PM
you can flog a Crown Vic all day, take it off road, and use it to pit maneuver every car in sight, and it will still ask for more. Not so much with the Taurus.
you should buy a Crown Vic.
It doesn't handle well at all.
It's like a rock.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 05, 2009, 03:46:35 PM
It doesn't handle well at all.
I doubt you've ever driven one.
Quote from: NACar on December 05, 2009, 03:48:28 PM
I doubt you've ever driven one.
Compared to what the rest of the world uses?
It's popular with LE because it is mega cheap.
It should have gone out of production a decade ago.
And besides, with modern technology, police cars really don't have to be that quick.
Nothing's faster than a radio...
Seems like this topic has already been beat senseless.
1. Large, roomy vehicle accommodates two LEOs and all their equipment.
2. RWD dynamics preferred over the current W-chassis Impala.
3. Rugged.
4. Dirt Cheap.
5. Fairly reliable.
LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:
1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.
All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.
Quote from: the Teuton on December 05, 2009, 05:03:11 PMAnd besides, with modern technology, police cars really don't have to be that quick.
Really? Why not?
Quote from: R-inge on December 05, 2009, 06:02:09 PM
Nothing's faster than a radio...
Seems like this topic has already been beat senseless.
1. Large, roomy vehicle accommodates two LEOs and all their equipment.
It's not roomy. Look at that utterly terrible space management.
(http://image.trucktrend.com/f/8492179/163_0704_06z+2007_ford_crown_victoria_police_interceptor+side_view.jpg)
versus
(http://assets.clickmotive.com/ail/stills_white_0640/5558/5558_st0640_037.jpg)
(http://image.automobilemag.com/f/multimedia/photo_gallery/16056699+w390/0901_01z+2010_ford_taurus+profile_view.jpg)
2. RWD dynamics preferred over the current W-chassis Impala.
Charger.
3. Rugged.
4. Dirt Cheap.
5. Fairly reliable.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 05, 2009, 06:28:17 PM
LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:
1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.
All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.
Ah, OK.
Crown Victoria's look great in movies. Enough said. :praise:
Quote from: bing_oh on December 05, 2009, 06:29:35 PM
Really? Why not?
I'm sure you've heard of radios, helicopters, and roadblocks.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 05, 2009, 07:32:49 PM
Yes, look at that terrible space management that means the car can be struck or used as a battering ram without losing its wheels.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=20658.msg1218429#msg1218429 date=1260109778I'm sure you've heard of radios, helicopters, and roadblocks.
Radios are obviously very useful, assuming that you can figure out where the suspect is going and that there's an officer in front of him. Otherwise, you'd need a fast police car to get in front of him. And, once of the police car is in front of him, what do they do then?
Helicopters are actually a rarity in law enforcement. The majority of LEO's in the US...more than 80% at last count...work for what is definted as "small departments," totalling less that 50 officers. Such departments rarely have helicopters themselves or access to helicopters from neighboring agencies. Helicopters are extremely expensive to purchase and maintain and require highly specialized officers to operate, meaning very expensive training.
Roadblocks have been ruled by the courts as deadly force, meaning that we can't use a roadblock without an exit option unless the offender presents an immediate threat of serious injury or death...the same standards as would limit us in the use of a firearm against the suspect. We do have access to Stop Sticks and other versions of road spikes, but offenders have been known drive on flats/rims after being spiked, so they're not 100% effective. And, again, you need to have a fast vehicle to be able to get in front of the suspect to deploy those spikes.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 05, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.
Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.
Judging by my own area, I don't think there's any apprehension to the Charger. Plenty of agencies are using it, from local PDs to the staties. Also, nobody around here ever really used Expeditions. Agencies that use SUVs have always used Durangos pretty much exclusively, from our local cops, to county sheriff to NJSP.
We even have one department around here (a beach town) that has a fleet of Jeep Wrangler police vehicles.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 06, 2009, 02:33:17 PM
Radios are obviously very useful, assuming that you can figure out where the suspect is going and that there's an officer in front of him. Otherwise, you'd need a fast police car to get in front of him. And, once of the police car is in front of him, what do they do then?
Helicopters are actually a rarity in law enforcement. The majority of LEO's in the US...more than 80% at last count...work for what is definted as "small departments," totalling less that 50 officers. Such departments rarely have helicopters themselves or access to helicopters from neighboring agencies. Helicopters are extremely expensive to purchase and maintain and require highly specialized officers to operate, meaning very expensive training.
Roadblocks have been ruled by the courts as deadly force, meaning that we can't use a roadblock without an exit option unless the offender presents an immediate threat of serious injury or death...the same standards as would limit us in the use of a firearm against the suspect. We do have access to Stop Sticks and other versions of road spikes, but offenders have been known drive on flats/rims after being spiked, so they're not 100% effective. And, again, you need to have a fast vehicle to be able to get in front of the suspect to deploy those spikes.
I was thinking about highways, where you can probably get people ahead and lay down a spike strip or something like that.
Quote from: TurboDan on December 06, 2009, 05:15:17 PMJudging by my own area, I don't think there's any apprehension to the Charger. Plenty of agencies are using it, from local PDs to the staties. Also, nobody around here ever really used Expeditions. Agencies that use SUVs have always used Durangos pretty much exclusively, from our local cops, to county sheriff to NJSP.
We even have one department around here (a beach town) that has a fleet of Jeep Wrangler police vehicles.
The Chargers seem to have caught on rather well, given Dodge's (poor) history with LE vehicles and how long they've been out of the competition.
I'm kinda surprised to hear that most of the departments in your area are using things like the Durango and Wrangler. So far as I know, neither are made in a pursuit-capable version. That's why the Expedition is popular for LE SUV's...they make a pursuit-capable model. Most SUV's are too top-heavy to be pursuit-rated.
Quote from: Raza on December 06, 2009, 05:26:36 PMI was thinking about highways, where you can probably get people ahead and lay down a spike strip or something like that.
Spike strips would actually be much easier for a bad guy to avoid on a limited access multi-lane highway. And, obviously, not all pursuits happen on the highway.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 07, 2009, 05:05:15 AM
The Chargers seem to have caught on rather well, given Dodge's (poor) history with LE vehicles and how long they've been out of the competition.
I'm kinda surprised to hear that most of the departments in your area are using things like the Durango and Wrangler. So far as I know, neither are made in a pursuit-capable version. That's why the Expedition is popular for LE SUV's...they make a pursuit-capable model. Most SUV's are too top-heavy to be pursuit-rated.
My local PD has mostly Tahoes and Yukons (although I'm beginning to see more CVs). A neighboring town has a Cherokee that they pull out when there's snow on the ground. Locally, there are also two Impalas, one marked and one unmarked, both used to hand out tickets (the one marked car sits at one of two spots only, so it's easy to avoid), and there used to be one unmarked Grand Marquis, but I haven't seen it in years. Go further from the town centers and you will see a handful of Chargers.
I see plenty of Durangos in New Jersey livery, though; usually Ewing.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 05, 2009, 03:46:35 PM
It doesn't handle well at all.
Have you ever driven one? Ah, didn't think so. Besides the fact that it weighs a bunch, has some flex, and gets jittery over mid-turn bumps, it corners pretty flat, feels solid, and requires little effort on the steering wheel. Point and shoot. It's an
easy car to handle, which I think is fine for an LEO since he has better things to worry about like, y'know, catching the guy or...making sure he's not going to hit someone...or...etc. It's an easy car to drive. It doesn't have to handle like a Corvette. If it couldn't catch criminals, they wouldn't still be using it.
:huh: :ohyeah:
Quote from: Raza on December 07, 2009, 06:47:38 AM
I see plenty of Durangos in New Jersey livery, though; usually Ewing.
Funny, I'm in Ewing a lot and have only seen CVs there. :lol: Ewing cops have a tough job, trying to essentially protect a large municipality from invasion by the train wreck of Trenton, which it borders. They actually get a lot of help from Trenton PD, which is replacing their CVs with Chargers, and the Mercer County Sheriff, which also is a big Durango agency. I've noticed most of the Sheriff departments prefer the SUVs to the CVs, since they do very little patrol and mainly take care of crime scene investigations, fugitive tracking, search and rescue, and only do patrol to back up a municipal department when needed or if there is a big event around.
Bing - Interesting you mention the pursuit ratings. Even NJSP troopers use Durangos, and they pretty much do all the highway patrol. The only Expedition I've ever seen being used by the staties in NJ was the marine division to pull the boats out of the water when they need to. For the most part, none of our local PDs patrol highways, so maybe that's why they didn't mind going with a vehicle non-pursuit. Since my county is basically a bunch of beach towns, the Durangos are used primarily to patrol the beaches and parks. The NJ State Park Police actually have a fleet of Grand Cherokees.
Also, FWIW, one super-rich town actually has a Lexus SUV police vehicle. I'm assuming (hoping, for the sake of the taxpayers) it was confiscated. :devil: :lol:
Quote from: TurboDan on December 07, 2009, 03:05:57 PMBing - Interesting you mention the pursuit ratings. Even NJSP troopers use Durangos, and they pretty much do all the highway patrol. The only Expedition I've ever seen being used by the staties in NJ was the marine division to pull the boats out of the water when they need to. For the most part, none of our local PDs patrol highways, so maybe that's why they didn't mind going with a vehicle non-pursuit. Since my county is basically a bunch of beach towns, the Durangos are used primarily to patrol the beaches and parks. The NJ State Park Police actually have a fleet of Grand Cherokees.
I'd actually take a non pursuit-rated on the highway before I would on city streets. While you have the chance of much higher speeds on the highway, you also have much fewer sharp turns where an SUV's high center of gravity makes it a liability.
I just don't see using a non pursuit-rated SUV for patrol. Even if you have a department with a very strict pursuit policy, having a vehicle that's manuverable at high speeds is still a must for responding to hot calls. Not to mention that, if you want an SUV for patrol, they do make pursuit-rated ones (I believe both the Expedition and the Tahoe come in pursuit-rated RWD models).
Quote from: bing_oh on December 07, 2009, 03:30:45 PM
I'd actually take a non pursuit-rated on the highway before I would on city streets. While you have the chance of much higher speeds on the highway, you also have much fewer sharp turns where an SUV's high center of gravity makes it a liability.
I just don't see using a non pursuit-rated SUV for patrol. Even if you have a department with a very strict pursuit policy, having a vehicle that's manuverable at high speeds is still a must for responding to hot calls. Not to mention that, if you want an SUV for patrol, they do make pursuit-rated ones (I believe both the Expedition and the Tahoe come in pursuit-rated RWD models).
So you're saying the Explorers my island town (no freeway) has probably aren't too useful...
Aspen Colorado has PD XC90's.
I would say there is an equal number of CVs and Expedition/Explorer's where I'm from. PD Expeditions are pretty badass.
Quote from: Colonel Cadillac on December 07, 2009, 10:48:49 PM
Aspen Colorado has PD XC90's.
I would say there is an equal number of CVs and Expedition/Explorer's where I'm from. PD Expeditions are pretty badass.
PD Expeditions are comfortable. I can personally vouch for that one. :lol:
Quote from: J86 on December 07, 2009, 09:58:49 PMSo you're saying the Explorers my island town (no freeway) has probably aren't too useful...
They're useful for special purpose vehicles. For patrol work, I personally don't think so. But I'm just a road dog, not an adminstrator.
We went up to the snow last night (didn't drive very far) and saw a Durango.
I've seen a CHP Volvo sedan going over the Grapevine on I-5 in LA County before.
Evidently all hell broke lose between Birmingham and Tuscaloosa at about 4:00PM today as I saw the following vehicles with lights on coming East bound out of Tuscaloosa:
1 marked Tahoe
1 unmarked (civilian) Tahoe
1 unmarked (civilian I think) F-150
1 marked Mercedes GL (remember, the plant that manufactures the GL, ML, GLK, and R class is just outside of Tuscaloosa so that actually makes sense)
1 marked Durango
1 marked Crown Victoria
Also, evidently homeland security uses Tahoes as there are two interceptors outside of my hotel room in Jackson (and one, older Expedition).
And, by civilian I mean non-police special.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 08, 2009, 03:15:35 AM
They're useful for special purpose vehicles. For patrol work, I personally don't think so. But I'm just a road dog, not an adminstrator.
I have another one for you. Seaside Heights, NJ PD (of MTV "Jersey Shore" fame) has marked Hyundai Santa Fe patrol units. Saw one today while driving through there.
Quote from: 2o6 on December 05, 2009, 03:42:56 PM
I know we have some LEO's on this board, but what is the fascination with large cars such as the Expedition and Crown Victoria? I know the Expedition is used for prisoner transport, but the Crown Victoria is neither roomy nor does is it efficient. It really doesn't handle well, is grotesquely heavy, and has the chassis rigidity of a piece of white bread.
Why the apprehension to relatively good cars such as the Taurus and Charger? Surely those are more efficient and handle better.
It's no heavier than the Charger in reality - maybe up to a couple hundred pounds but that's not alot when we're talking 4,000 pounds. As far tas that handling it's really not bad- not great but not bad. Charger is hands down superior. Taurus isn't even out as a police car so it's a non-issue and the Impala just isn't a good car although our captain kept ordering them. It's sorta like the CVPI- it does the job- not great but not terrible either. I don't think that we're not willing to give them a chance it's just that nothing does everything right now and we need something that does everything. The CVPI was the closest if you didn't mind rolling the dice with the whole fire issue. The ONLY reason ford every took over the market was because Chevy simply vacated it leaving nothing but the Vic.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 05, 2009, 06:28:17 PM
LE vehicles have to fit a rather strict set of criteria. They have to be:
1. Large enough to hold a LEO in full duty rig for at least 8 hours, all of the associated equipment (computers, radios, emergency lighting, weapons, and a trunk full of specialized equipment big and small), and haul prisoners.
2. Rugged and durable enough to deal with constant driving at street speeds or lower, but be able to accelerate quickly and also maintain relatively high speeds. Also has to be able to possess the durability to do some extreme maneuvers, from turns in unpaved medians and shoulders to things like the PIT.
3. Relatively low maintenance.
4. High reliability.
5. Cheap enough to be purchased in large numbers by the government at lowest bid.
All in all, it's not an easy set of criteria to meet. And, not many car manufacturers are willing to put the time and money into developing a vehicle that meets thos criteria. The Crown Vic is still around because it's long established and is still being manufactured (for now). Chevy dropped out after the Caprice (though they're bringing it back) and Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles and still has to prove its reputation with the Charger.
6. solid and highly predictable road manners
7. fast but not too fast
And Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles? Really? I have 2 words for you Dodge Diplo friggen mat. LOL
Quote from: rohan on December 17, 2009, 04:37:26 PMAnd Dodge has never been much into LE vehicles? Really? I have 2 words for you Dodge Diplo friggen mat. LOL
I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 18, 2009, 07:55:05 AM
I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.
yeah, the Diplomat was primarily cheap, not necesarily good. But in my neck of the woods, it was the earlier Coronet that was the bad-ass Dodge patrol car (and a great car for a kid to pick up cheap as a used patrol car in high school, like my best friend's car...)
(http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/mopork/6468827+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1971-dodge-coronet-finished-restoration.jpg)
These things with the 400s and 440s in them were pretty rapid and damn near indestructible.
Quote from: bing_oh on December 18, 2009, 07:55:05 AM
I think you proved my point! The Diplomat was before my time (thank God), but from what the old timers have told me, it wasn't much of a police car. They usually use four-letter words to describe it.
Yeah! we still had some in DPD up until about 98-99. They were awesome cars to be perfecly frank and they laster forever but when the engine was about to quit for a few hundred miles they'ld suddenly flat out SCREAM! Then all of a sudden they'ld just go POW and die. I have alot of fond memories in them - some pretty bad ones as well.
Quote from: ChrisV on December 18, 2009, 11:29:11 AM
yeah, the Diplomat was primarily cheap, not necesarily good. But in my neck of the woods, it was the earlier Coronet that was the bad-ass Dodge patrol car (and a great car for a kid to pick up cheap as a used patrol car in high school, like my best friend's car...)
(http://image.popularhotrodding.com/f/mopork/6468827+w450+h338+cr0+re1+ar1/1971-dodge-coronet-finished-restoration.jpg)
These things with the 400s and 440s in them were pretty rapid and damn near indestructible.
We also had some OLD Gran Fury's kicking around Detroit when I first started.
But nothing and I mean
N O T H I N G was as bad as the Cutlass police cars we had. There weren't many by the time I got there but they were just aweful. So bad in fact I know of a officer who "accidentally" drove his into the Detroit River to get rid of it.
A friend of mine drives a ex-patrol car CVPI. He bought it from a dealer that specializes in used LE vehicles. He really likes it: handling is reasonable, rugged, very inexpensive to run, quiet, roomy, comfortable.
Quote from: rohan on December 18, 2009, 09:19:15 PM
We also had some OLD Gran Fury's kicking around Detroit when I first started.
But nothing and I mean N O T H I N G was as bad as the Cutlass police cars we had. There weren't many by the time I got there but they were just aweful. So bad in fact I know of a officer who "accidentally" drove his into the Detroit River to get rid of it.
When I first started driving in Missouri in the lat 60's I worked at a gas station that the highway patrol came to to have oil changed and their cars washed while they ate at the restrauant next door. I'd service the cars and drive them over to the eatery. Great fun. Back then the patrol used full sized Pontiac Catalinas, Dodge (?), Ford Galaxies, Mercury (?), Plymouth (?), Buick LeSabres and Oldsmobile Delta 88s. I don't remember any Chevrolets, Chryslers or Caddys. Colors varied. I remember them as big, fast and powerful.
If I ever need to buy a car for myself, meaning I'm forced to stop driving VW's, I'd get a Crown. Most reliable car I've dealt with...civilian or PI version.
Our Grand Marquis has not been in for any problems whatsoever over the past 5 years that we've had it. It's damn bulletproof.
I could rock a CVPI...
Quote from: Psilos on December 29, 2009, 03:38:08 PM
I could rock a CVPI...
In all black with black steelies and light smoke tint. Im up in the air about a push bar.
No need for a push bar, I hope. But keep the spotlight.
As someone who's driven the Grand Marquis and Town Car, I'm not so sure how excited I'd be to DD a Crown Vic.
Quote from: Psilos on December 29, 2009, 03:38:08 PM
I could rock a CVPI...
Totally.
This car belongs to one of the regulars at the GRM discussion boards, and every time I see a picture of his car, it makes me want a P71 that much more.
(http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/img/readerrides/updates/3585095669_4a29c44086.jpg)
Quote from: The Pirate on December 29, 2009, 07:55:39 PMTotally.
This car belongs to one of the regulars at the GRM discussion boards, and every time I see a picture of his car, it makes me want a P71 that much more.
(http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/media/img/readerrides/updates/3585095669_4a29c44086.jpg)
Sniff! Sniff! I smell wannabe...
Quote from: JWC on December 29, 2009, 09:06:49 AM
If I ever need to buy a car for myself, meaning I'm forced to stop driving VW's, I'd get a Crown. Most reliable car I've dealt with...civilian or PI version.
They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.
The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)
It's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.
Now, if we're talking about a Mercury Marauder, or maybe a CV with a swapped '04 SVT Mustang engine (390hp!), then you'd have my interest.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on December 30, 2009, 06:42:43 AM
They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.
The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)
It's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.
Now, if we're talking about a Mercury Marauder, or maybe a CV with a swapped '04 SVT Mustang engine (390hp!), then you'd have my interest.
What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public?
Quote from: Byteme on December 30, 2009, 07:46:21 AM
What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public?
I believe that the intake manifolds on the police version were aluminum, while the civilian ones were composites (plastic).
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on December 30, 2009, 08:49:18 AM
I believe that the intake manifolds on the police version were aluminum, while the civilian ones were composites (plastic).
That's it? No heavy duty suspension? No heavy duty cooling or alternator or other stuff?
Edit: Cancel that, I googled it and found what I was looking for. :lol:
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on December 30, 2009, 06:42:43 AM
They were known for cracking intake manifolds in the late 1990s and early 2000s - at least on the civilian versions.
Never heard of that on any of the patrol cars. Caprice? You bet they were notorious for it on the LT-1 we called it the Ltick-1 because it made a real distinct tick once it cracked.
QuoteIt's a cool car, but it doesn't have any particular trait that makes me want it badly. It's not especially quick, doesn't handle especially well, and sucks fuel pretty quickly. I'd buy it for the pure retro experience - column shift, rear drive, tank durability.
In the hands of a professional the car was actually very capable and fast- fast enough for us to keep up with hopped up stangs and corvettes and lots of other cars because of the training. People think they can drive because they have fast cars and maybe a couple laps around some track somewhere- but most police officers have far better skills and the ones of us who've had advanced pursuit training can make a regular car sing and a car like the CVPI rule the roads.
Quote from: Byteme on December 30, 2009, 07:46:21 AM
What do you get on the police version that wasn't available to the general public?
ON the CVPI I think this was the list on the last ones we bought here- high capacity radiator with higher capacity overflow- oil cooler and I think higher capacity oil reserve- thicker oil pan- transmission cooler- strike plates underneath the car- heavy duty suspension- faster ratio steering- different gearing- composite driveshaft- different brakes and high performance brake pads designed for police use- steel wheels- V rated tires- higher horsepower engine- true dual stainless steel exhaust- wiring harness for emergency lighting- 200 amp alternator/"generator" which held like 190 amps at idle- fleet key alike- ability to take key out of ignition while engine running- roof reinforcements for light bar mounting- limited slip- black out package- taillight kill- strobe package- vinyl back seat- rubber floor instead of carpeting- wiring harness for 800 mhz radios- slide out tray drawers in the trunk- slide out tray for in-car-video- dual spotlights- console with light switch boxes installed- 8 plug 190 watt strobe pack- Recaro bucket seats- fake trunk release with real one hidden- the ability to turn off all interior/dash lights. There might be more I'm not sure.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on December 30, 2009, 06:42:43 AM
The CV would be a cool car, but I'd be concerned that it might cause people to drive slower in your presence - someone would see you, think you're a cop and proceed to drive 5 under the limit on a winding 2-lane highway. It would drive you crazy. (at least it would for me)
On the other hand, perhaps on a multi-lane highway, people would get out of your way.
I also wonder if/when you're exceeding the speed limit on a highway patrolled by troopers if they'd pull over a vehicle that's a dead-ringer for another agency's unmarked or take-home CVPIs. In New Jersey, unmarked police vehicles are not issued municipal/county/state tags, and they blend in perfectly. Oftentimes, agencies will even add bumper stickers or "support our troops" magnetic ribbons to the rear to make the vehicles look a little more civvie-like.
The only discernible difference is that their EZPass transponders are issued by a state agency and are blue in color rather than the usual white. However, I don't believe there's any law against spray-painting an EZPass transponder.
Quote from: TurboDan on December 30, 2009, 09:55:42 AM
On the other hand, perhaps on a multi-lane highway, people would get out of your way.
I also wonder if/when you're exceeding the speed limit on a highway patrolled by troopers if they'd pull over a vehicle that's a dead-ringer for another agency's unmarked or take-home CVPIs. In New Jersey, unmarked police vehicles are not issued municipal/county/state tags, and they blend in perfectly. Oftentimes, agencies will even add bumper stickers or "support our troops" magnetic ribbons to the rear to make the vehicles look a little more civvie-like.
The only discernible difference is that their EZPass transponders are issued by a state agency and are blue in color rather than the usual white. However, I don't believe there's any law against spray-painting an EZPass transponder.
In Michigan all municiple vehicles have very obvious plates only undercover cars have regular civilian plates. As for the other thing about troops not pulling over cars that look like PD cars- it would be true for the most part but there are so many wannabes and pretenders out there that most cops will come up behind you even if you think it might be a real unmarked unit just to check it out and if it's civilian it gets grabbed. Around here we work hard to keep the wannabe's looking in their rearview.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 10:05:54 AM
In Michigan all municiple vehicles have very obvious plates only undercover cars have regular civilian plates. As for the other thing about troops not pulling over cars that look like PD cars- it would be true for the most part but there are so many wannabes and pretenders out there that most cops will come up behind you even if you think it might be a real unmarked unit just to check it out and if it's civilian it gets grabbed. Around here we work hard to keep the wannabe's looking in their rearview.
LOL. What is the usual reaction when they're pulled over? Are they still trying to "play cop" so to speak?
Depends on why they bought the car TBH. CVPI's go for about $2k at auction here so it's easy cheap reliable transportation for the masses honestly. Lots and lots of people have them for nothing other than that but there's a few who have less honorable uses for them. Those are the folks we "harrass" and they stick right out. They leave the push bars and spots on and add lights that mimick the emergency lights on our cars so they can get through traffic faster. I got passed by one last night in fact on I-94. He was more than a little surprised when I lit him up- I paced him for almost a mile at 110. (my car is unmarked) Lucky for him I didn't have a ticket book with me.
Cracked intakes were a problem, but not as widespread as most would think. The manifolds were updated and the problem was covered under warranty. The problem stemmed from stress at the bolt where the alternator mounted to the manifold. As far as I remember, all were composite manifolds, civilian or PI. Mustangs and T-Birds had the same manifold, same problem.
The most common complaint about the CV that I heard from LEO's was a tendency for the tail to lift at high speed. The fix was to install a plate under the rear of the car, from the fuel tank to the lower edge of the rear bumper. The rear plastic bumper acted like a parachute at high speed.
I didn't intend for my remarks previous to be taken as the CV was trouble free, just the most reliable vehicle I've worked with. There are also a lot of performance parts available for that engine and can speed things up some.
Intake manifold or exhaust? I think (but I'm probably wrong) all the cvpi's were stainless steel tubular header type exhaust manifolds. ?? At least the newer ones of the last few years anyway. I've never heard of a exhaust manifold on a cvpi crack-not saying it never happened but I've never heard of it- like I said before the LT-1 was guaranteed to crack and we called it the LTick-1. As far as it lifting up at high speed and fixing it with something like that? Never heard of it- it's just a trait of the car but it got better in the latter years.
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 10:41:44 AM
Intake manifold or exhaust? I think (but I'm probably wrong) all the cvpi's were stainless steel tubular header type exhaust manifolds. ?? At least the newer ones of the last few years anyway. I've never heard of a exhaust manifold on a cvpi crack-not saying it never happened but I've never heard of it- like I said before the LT-1 was guaranteed to crack and we called it the LTick-1. As far as it lifting up at high speed and fixing it with something like that? Never heard of it- it's just a trait of the car but it got better in the latter years.
The intakes cracked.
The rear lift problem was solved by a company out of Georgia who sold kits to repair the lift problem. I don't think they are available now. To clarify, I never actually heard a city cop complain, it was always state troopers; from NC, SC, GA, and Alabama. Everyone of them told me that it was the only reason the preferred the Caprice over the CV. The Caprice held the road better at high speeds, where the CV had a tendency to get squirmy.
OH! You're talking about the early-mid 90's CVPI's. I see what you mean now. Yeah- those cars were horrible all the way around except there was one area they were better than anyother police car ever made-- the four headlight system was awesome at night. But they rode nice too. They rode like a civilian car does - very soft.
Quote from: J86 on December 07, 2009, 09:58:49 PM
So you're saying the Explorers my island town (no freeway) has probably aren't too useful...
Ford calls them "Special Service Vehicles" and advises police administrators to institute a "No pursuit policy" when using these vehicles. We can't have them in our department because under michigan law when we turn on a speeder to catch up that's a "pursuit" by letter of the law. So our insurance carrier won't let us have them for anything other than crime scene and so on. They also don't have a specific police package on them- they're just civilian vehicles outfitted with aftermarket emergency equipment
Quote from: bing_oh on December 30, 2009, 03:26:10 AM
Sniff! Sniff! I smell wannabe...
Really? I just smell bacon.
:lol:
Quote from: Psilos on December 30, 2009, 04:56:28 PM
Really? I just smell bacon.
:lol:
OMG that's so funny!
Quote from: rohan on December 30, 2009, 09:53:51 AM
fleet key alike- fake trunk release with real one hidden
OK. Is Fleet key like a master key? Now I think I get the fake trunk release. Is it to keep "unwanted" people from getting hold of guns that may be stored in the trunk?