http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2016/09/didnt-take-five-years-toyota-rav4-outsold-toyota-camry-august-2016/
Good article and analysis but for me the bigger takeaway came from these two pictures in the article:
(http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/2016-Toyota-RAV4-cargo-area-610x415.jpg)
(http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/2015-Toyota-Camry-trunk-seats-folded-610x433.jpg)
If you regularly use your trunk at all the advantage should be immediately obvious. RAV4 FWD only takes a 2MPG FE ding, is 9" shorter yadda yadda..........
It's happening!
Interesting.
Definitely seems like the US is moving away from sedans, but instead of wagons/hatches we are going toward CUVs (ie: car based "SUVS").
Some of the newer mini-CUVs pretty much look like tall hatchbacks. Not even that much lift, really. I see quite a few Buick Encore's around my neighborhood and they are actually decent looking. Mazda's CX-3 is good looking as well. Honda's HRV (I think that is what is called) and Chevy's Trax are reasonably good looking as well.
In the words of Ja Rule: it's murrrrdaaaaa
http://jalopnik.com/the-family-sedan-is-getting-murdered-by-the-crossover-1786244975
I think I'm forever in the 2 box club now.
This tells me that for Americans, the issue was not that they didn't like hatchbacks, but rather they wanted larger hatchbacks.
Pretty much. Large, AWD hatchbacks that can deal with giant potholes and poorly designed driveways. For the daily grind, I totally agree too.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 09:10:10 AM
This tells me that for Americans, the issue was not that they didn't like hatchbacks, but rather they wanted larger hatchbacks.
Hatchbacks which aren't so low to the ground, so easier to get in and out of.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on September 06, 2016, 08:50:15 AM
Interesting.
Definitely seems like the US is moving away from sedans, but instead of wagons/hatches we are going toward CUVs (ie: car based "SUVS").
I see those and immediately think "Tall Station Wagon" which is essentially all they are. :huh:
I think there's also a growing popular need for a Homedepot/Ikeamobile. More and more people prefer to carry home that built-in dishwasher and install it themselves, rather than have it delivered. Some places don't even deliver appliances anymore, let alone set them up, or if they do they charge a small fortune. Same with new lawnmowers, patio furniture, bbqs, etc etc.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 10:40:47 AM
I think there's also a growing popular need for a Homedepot/Ikeamobile. More and more people prefer to carry home that built-in dishwasher and install it themselves, rather than have it delivered. Some places don't even deliver appliances anymore, let alone set them up, or if they do they charge a small fortune. Same with new lawnmowers, patio furniture, bbqs, etc etc.
True enough.
If I were restricted to just one vehicle I'd buy a sedan like a Mazda 6 and have a trailer hitch installed and get a small utility trailer for those events you mention.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 10:40:47 AM
I think there's also a growing popular need for a Homedepot/Ikeamobile. More and more people prefer to carry home that built-in dishwasher and install it themselves, rather than have it delivered. Some places don't even deliver appliances anymore, let alone set them up, or if they do they charge a small fortune. Same with new lawnmowers, patio furniture, bbqs, etc etc.
What?
It's easier than ever to get shit delivered. It's usually one click away.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 06, 2016, 11:12:56 AM
What?
It's easier than ever to get shit delivered. It's usually one click away.
That greatly depends on where you are. Not only that, but most people I know like to check out large big dollar items in person, like the stuff I mentioned in the previous post. Can't do a proper compare of mowers and bbqs from a computer screen.
I'm almost certain I called this coming to be before, and people said I was wrong/crazy. I can accept being crazy, but I was right god damn it.
The only people mainstream sedans make sense for are solo commuters. If you are loading really young/old people and stuff into a vehicle very often, which a huge and growing slice of the US population is, there's absolutely no reason not to get a crossover.
I will say this though- looking more and more into it, the belly draggin' unibody 3 row crossover makes next to no sense in the context of minivans. They weigh the same, drive the same, and burn the same fuel, but from the c-pillar back the minivan reigns supreme by a wide margin. I hope to never be in a position where I will need a 3 row vehicle, but if I ever find myself in such a place I will immediately submit to my minivan fate, rather than try and fake the funk with a belly dragger.
One thing I'm also wondering is if a gas price spike would even have an impact. Like I know I said before, you compare something like a CR-V to an Accord, gas mileage is damn near at parity.
Something else to keep in mind is the growth of cars. Again my Civic is about the size of my old Accords inside (though the back seat is a little narrower). The current Civic for all intents and purposes is a midsizer, not just in size but performance, equipment and build quality too. In the new Civic's context what purpose does the Accord serve? Lower trims don't really bring much to the table over a Civic than a bigger back seat, and top end trims are dangerously close to the more attractive (IMO) TLX. A TLX V6 starts at $35K........
Truthfully I would rather see more "CUV coupes" than sedans. They have pretty much nuked the fun out of most midsize sedans. I wouldn't mind if the next Maxima was a sportier take on the Murano for example.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 12:46:49 PM
One thing I'm also wondering is if a gas price spike would even have an impact. Like I know I said before, you compare something like a CR-V to an Accord, gas mileage is damn near at parity.
Something else to keep in mind is the growth of cars. Again my Civic is about the size of my old Accords inside (though the back seat is a little narrower). The current Civic for all intents and purposes is a midsizer, not just in size but performance, equipment and build quality too. In the new Civic's context what purpose does the Accord serve? Lower trims don't really bring much to the table over a Civic than a bigger back seat, and top end trims are dangerously close to the more attractive (IMO) TLX. A TLX V6 starts at $35K........
Truthfully I would rather see more "CUV coupes" than sedans. They have pretty much nuked the fun out of most midsize sedans. I wouldn't mind if the next Maxima was a sportier take on the Murano for example.
Fuck. That.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 12:33:47 PM
I'm almost certain I called this coming to be before, and people said I was wrong/crazy. I can accept being crazy, but I was right god damn it.
No, the people who are wrong/crazy are the ones who say the midsize sedan is "dead" -- you included -- just because some automakers' midsize sedans are outsold by their crossovers. Over-the-top nonsense.
Quote from: ifcar on September 06, 2016, 12:49:59 PM
No, the people who are wrong/crazy are the ones who say the midsize sedan is "dead" -- you included -- just because some automakers' midsize sedans are outsold by their crossovers. Over-the-top nonsense.
Bruv the midsize decline is accelerating
I was prescient
I compared the SUV vs. minivan a couple weeks ago. 2016 Pilot vs. 2016 Odyssey. The Pilot has a new engine which the Odyssey is supposed to get next year.
Pilot
$31,245 base (AWD starts at $33,045)
19/26 MPG
6.1sec zero to 60mph
152.9 cubic ft "passenger volume"
Odyssey
$30,450 base
19/28 MPG
7.7sec zero to 70mph
172.6 cubic ft "passenger volume"
That's quite a bit more space for the sake of a little off-roadability and "cooler" image.
Also the middle seats are removable in Odyssey, I've ridden around with all of them out for a while, just fold the 3rd row into the floor or pop it back up as needed. Kinda weird "limousine seating" but great for hauling junk. Because you get even more room then!!
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 12:49:00 PM
Fuck. That.
Be realistic... we are in a new era, for better or worse
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 01:50:41 PM
Be realistic... we are in a new era, for better or worse
Well, it's not like they can make the Maxima look any worse.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 12:33:47 PM
The only people mainstream sedans make sense for are solo commuters. If you are loading really young/old people and stuff into a vehicle very often, which a huge and growing slice of the US population is, there's absolutely no reason not to get a crossover.
And there is absolutely every reason for one to buy what they want regardless of what someone else thinks they do or do not need. :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 12:46:49 PM
Truthfully I would rather see more "CUV coupes" than sedans. They have pretty much nuked the fun out of most midsize sedans. I wouldn't mind if the next Maxima was a sportier take on the Murano for example.
Didn't Nissan already try that with the disgusting Juke?
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 12:49:00 PM
Fuck. That.
+1.
I've only driven a handful of CUVs, but I'm really not a fan of the way they drive. They're still tall like traditional trucks and SUVs, but people want them to handle like cars, so they just seem to end up having stiff suspensions, but still don't actually drive very well. I prefer the way my Explorer drives - it's not trying to be something it's not.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on September 06, 2016, 03:38:42 PM
+1.
I've only driven a handful of CUVs, but I'm really not a fan of the way they drive. They're still tall like traditional trucks and SUVs, but people want them to handle like cars, so they just seem to end up having stiff suspensions, but still don't actually drive very well. I prefer the way my Explorer drives - it's not trying to be something it's not.
At the other end of the spectrum everybody is saying the new Jaguar F-Pace if virtually an F-type with hauling capacity and seating for 4.
Quote from: CLKid on September 06, 2016, 03:02:25 PM
And there is absolutely every reason for one to buy what they want regardless of what someone else thinks they do or do not need. :huh:
Fair enough, just stating my opinion, not writing laws :huh:
Quote from: CLKid on September 06, 2016, 03:55:23 PM
At the other end of the spectrum everybody is saying the new Jaguar F-Pace if virtually an F-type with hauling capacity and seating for 4.
Yea I think that's just a matter of tuning. There are a lot of cars... including some "sporty" cars... that drive like crap too. Porsche Macan, Infiniti FX (fuck whatever they are calling it now), Audi Q5 all drive pretty well
Q5 drives like a tall version of my A4. Now that I don't has A4, my mom's Q5 is about as close as I can get to re-living those glory days. That turb0.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 06, 2016, 12:46:49 PM
One thing I'm also wondering is if a gas price spike would even have an impact. Like I know I said before, you compare something like a CR-V to an Accord, gas mileage is damn near at parity.
Something else to keep in mind is the growth of cars. Again my Civic is about the size of my old Accords inside (though the back seat is a little narrower). The current Civic for all intents and purposes is a midsizer, not just in size but performance, equipment and build quality too. In the new Civic's context what purpose does the Accord serve? Lower trims don't really bring much to the table over a Civic than a bigger back seat, and top end trims are dangerously close to the more attractive (IMO) TLX. A TLX V6 starts at $35K........
Truthfully I would rather see more "CUV coupes" than sedans. They have pretty much nuked the fun out of most midsize sedans. I wouldn't mind if the next Maxima was a sportier take on the Murano for example.
And you think that a tall car with increased ride height, and a higher CG, based on the same platforms as those boring and un-fun midsize sedans, will drive better or be more fun than the non-CUV version?
The problem with modern sedans is that their designs have been compromised in the name of styling and aerodynamics.
On nearly all modern sedans, the base of the rear window has been stretched back so far, there is barely any room left for a trunk opening. Compare this to my old Volvo 740. The upright rear window, box-shaped trunk compartment and a lid that lifted up to the fully vertical position meant I was able to transport a large chest-of-drawers fully upright. It was like having a small pickup truck cargo bed.
Can you do this with any modern sedan, with their mail-slot trunk apertures? No way! Is it any wonder consumers are now shunning today's horribly impractical breed of sedans for something able to carry an object bigger than a slimline briefcase?
Quote from: MX793 on September 06, 2016, 07:40:18 PM
And you think that a tall car with increased ride height, and a higher CG, based on the same platforms as those boring and un-fun midsize sedans, will drive better or be more fun than the non-CUV version?
No, but it would be close enough and way more usable. I mean if I had to pick between the new S4 and an SQ5 I'm going with the SQ5. It's not like we are talking an RS4 or w/e, I feel like sedans that fun are mostly dead and gone.
Most appliances aren't going to fit in a RAV4 or the like type of SUV. You need a pick-up or minivan to bring most large appliances home.
My parents recently bought a Chevy Equinox. GM was having a firesale on FWD versions of them. It's a better fit for them compared with the Malibu, which is the car they used to drive on long trips. Extra gas cost is a few hundred dollars a year. For that they get easier seating, easier loading/unloading, better ground clearance in the winter, and as good a ride or better.
The lower center of gravity of a sedan compared with an SUV making it usually handle better is moot in the U.S. because most places have wide flat roads and speed limits are low.
Quote from: veeman on September 06, 2016, 09:44:28 PM
Most appliances aren't going to fit in a RAV4 or the like type of SUV. You need a pick-up or minivan to bring most large appliances home.
Pickup or minivan, my ass!
Here's living proof a tumble dryer will fit into a Passat wagon. Ask me how I know! :ohyeah:
(http://i.imgur.com/V3orH0l.jpg)
Did they get the four cylinder or the V6?
Quote from: CJ on September 06, 2016, 09:55:33 PM
Did they get the four cylinder or the V6?
4 cylinder.
Quote from: Madman on September 06, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Pickup or minivan, my ass!
Here's living proof a tumble dryer will fit into a Passat wagon. Ask me how I know! :ohyeah:
(http://i.imgur.com/V3orH0l.jpg)
How do you know?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on September 06, 2016, 08:50:15 AM
Interesting.
Definitely seems like the US is moving away from sedans, but instead of wagons/hatches we are going toward CUVs (ie: car based "SUVS").
Some of the newer mini-CUVs pretty much look like tall hatchbacks. Not even that much lift, really. I see quite a few Buick Encore's around my neighborhood and they are actually decent looking. Mazda's CX-3 is good looking as well. Honda's HRV (I think that is what is called) and Chevy's Trax are reasonably good looking as well.
My mom traded her SLK on an AWD Encore Sport a few months ago! For most of the same reasons mentioned earlier.
Quote from: MrH on September 06, 2016, 09:23:12 AM
Pretty much. Large, AWD hatchbacks that can deal with giant potholes and poorly designed driveways. For the daily grind, I totally agree too.
Yeah I feel you! I'm not a fan of CUVs but Imma need some sort of smaller SUV to compliment my next car.
Quote from: Madman on September 06, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Pickup or minivan, my ass!
Here's living proof a tumble dryer will fit into a Passat wagon. Ask me how I know! :ohyeah:
(http://i.imgur.com/V3orH0l.jpg)
Got me there.
Quote from: Madman on September 06, 2016, 09:52:54 PM
Pickup or minivan, my ass!
Here's living proof a tumble dryer will fit into a Passat wagon. Ask me how I know! :ohyeah:
(http://i.imgur.com/V3orH0l.jpg)
way more work than an SUV or minivan.
FYI a washer or dryer slides right in the side door of a minivan, no need to lift it over any hump or tilt it on it's side.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 07, 2016, 05:58:37 AM
way more work than an SUV or minivan.
FYI a washer or dryer slides right in the side door of a minivan, no need to lift it over any hump or tilt it on it's side.
More work?
How is sliding a dryer into a Passat wagon "more work" than sliding one into an SUV or a minivan? And what "hump" are you talking about? The tailgate of my old Passat went all the way down to the bumper. There was no "hump". If anything, loading it into the Passat is easier because the rear bumper is lower than that of an SUV or minivan, which means less lifting and easier loading and unloading.
And who cares if the dryer is on its side? :nutty:
Quote from: Madman on September 07, 2016, 06:55:57 AM
More work?
How is sliding a dryer into a Passat wagon "more work" than sliding one into an SUV or a minivan? And what "hump" are you talking about? The tailgate of my old Passat went all the way down to the bumper. There was no "hump". If anything, loading it into the Passat is easier because the rear bumper is lower than that of an SUV or minivan, which means less lifting and easier loading and unloading.
And who cares if the dryer is on its side? :nutty:
Most station wagons have a hump. :huh: And I can almost guarantee the tailgate of that car is not lower than the side of a minivan. :huh: I wasn't saying there was a problem with laying a dryer/washer on it's side but I hope you can appreciate that the minivan is taller if it fits the appliance upright. I could probably fit six appliances that size in my vehicle.
BTW FYI= "for your info", not "hey I'm arguing". I had a Legacy wagon for 7 yrs, grew up with station wagons in my family, I love wagons and they are far superior to sedans in every way.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 06, 2016, 11:21:44 AM
That greatly depends on where you are. Not only that, but most people I know like to check out large big dollar items in person, like the stuff I mentioned in the previous post. Can't do a proper compare of mowers and bbqs from a computer screen.
I don't know where you're shopping that doesn't offer delivery. Amazon has kind of forced it in all sorts of categories.
Absolutely you can shop for grills and other items online. Online reviews and YouTube reviews are more helpful than looking at something in a store and not being able to use it.
Quote from: Lebowski on September 07, 2016, 08:09:04 AM
I don't know where you're shopping that doesn't offer delivery. Amazon has kind of forced it in all sorts of categories.
Absolutely you can shop for grills and other items online. Online reviews and YouTube reviews are more helpful than looking at something in a store and not being able to use it.
Yeah most places deliver appliances for "free" or fairly low price. Still it usually costs about $100 for them to haul out your old broken washer/dryer/dishwasher etc. A lot of people buy large items on Craigslist though.
More and more, even I can only justify a sedan for fun daily driving, and since 90% of the time, fun daily driving is better done in a real sports car, what's the point? I like the idea of having two extremes--a sports car and an SUV--rather than one compromised mix. One car just doesn't make sense if you can afford two. I will always go for a sports car daily driver and an SUV for occasional use if those options are affordable to me. I can drive a sports car daily straight up 9 months out of the year, even here, and in winter, still, it can be used probably 2/3rds of the time. Take the SUV when it snows/pours/is way too cold for summer tires/Costco/whenever, and park it when you don't need the guzzler. Literally the best of both worlds.
Quote from: Raza on September 07, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
More and more, even I can only justify a sedan for fun daily driving, and since 90% of the time, fun daily driving is better done in a real sports car, what's the point? I like the idea of having two extremes--a sports car and an SUV--rather than one compromised mix. One car just doesn't make sense if you can afford two. I will always go for a sports car daily driver and an SUV for occasional use if those options are affordable to me. I can drive a sports car daily straight up 9 months out of the year, even here, and in winter, still, it can be used probably 2/3rds of the time. Take the SUV when it snows/pours/is way too cold for summer tires/Costco/whenever, and park it when you don't need the guzzler. Literally the best of both worlds.
You've finally seen the light :praise:
Well if you only can have one car, then a "sports" SUV would be the answer. I know Hector in Mexico City has tracked a few.
Quote from: veeman on September 07, 2016, 09:28:05 PM
Well if you only can have one car, then a "sports" SUV would be the answer. I know Hector in Mexico City has tracked a few.
Eh, it depends on the person. I don't want to have another car, so having a practical car that is also fun to drive makes for sense for me, I think.
Maybe someday I'll get another sports car...just not sure I want the hassle of having another car.
When car replacement time comes, one of them will be an CUV - Mazda CX-5 or similar.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on September 07, 2016, 05:58:37 AM
way more work than an SUV or minivan.
FYI a washer or dryer slides right in the side door of a minivan, no need to lift it over any hump or tilt it on it's side.
Over the life of the dryer how much extra work was it really? 5 minutes or less? Does it really matter? It's not like someone hauls a dryer home 7 days a week. Personally If given the two choices of a Passat Wagon or a minivan, I'd take the Passat in a heartbeat and suffer the few minutes of extra work to load the occasional bulky item. YMMV
Quote from: veeman on September 07, 2016, 08:16:16 AM
Yeah most places deliver appliances for "free" or fairly low price. Still it usually costs about $100 for them to haul out your old broken washer/dryer/dishwasher etc. A lot of people buy large items on Craigslist though.
Just about anywhere I've lived if you set something out that has scrap value; a water heater, range, dryer, etc., it disappears within 24 hours. People make or supplement their living by driving around and grabbing recyclable items to take to the scrap yard.
one time I sat some speakers out on the curb, blown cones but nice grills and wood cases. Someone drove up and put them in their pickup while I was walking back to the house. It was like they were parked at the corner waiting for me to set them out. :lol:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on September 08, 2016, 08:17:22 AM
Eh, it depends on the person. I don't want to have another car, so having a practical car that is also fun to drive makes for sense for me, I think.
Maybe someday I'll get another sports car...just not sure I want the hassle of having another car.
It really depends on one's situation. If things were different for me I probably would stick with 1 car and no bike. But my commute has several routes that utilize fun back roads, and my job has preferential parking for motorcycles (!!!!). Weather here is pretty awesome too. If I were in the NE with the snow and all that I'd probably do an all in one like you.
Plus I don't know about anyone else but I don't do any kind of pure pleasure driving/riding. I don't have time and I get to hit most of the good roads here on my commute. So a car just for pleasure drives seems like a huge waste of $$$$.
Quote from: Raza on September 07, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
More and more, even I can only justify a car for fun daily driving, and since 90% of the time, fun daily driving is better done on a motorcycle, what's the point? I like the idea of having two extremes-- a motorcycle and a comfortable car--rather than one compromised mix. One vehicle just doesn't make sense if you can afford two. I will always go for a naked standard bike and a quick luxury car for occasional use if those options are affordable to me. I can ride daily straight up 9 months out of the year, even here, and in winter, still, it can be used probably 2/3rds of the time. Take the car when the weather doesn't cooperate or it's too dark at both ends of my commute. Literally the best of both worlds.
Thanks for laying that out for me :praise:
Quote from: CLKid on September 08, 2016, 10:24:31 AM
Over the life of the dryer how much extra work was it really? 5 minutes or less? Does it really matter? It's not like someone hauls a dryer home 7 days a week. Personally If given the two choices of a Passat Wagon or a minivan, I'd take the Passat in a heartbeat and suffer the few minutes of extra work to load the occasional bulky item. YMMV
I haul more people than appliances so Passat would be way more desirable to me in a few years but for now seats > handling
Quote from: Raza on September 07, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
More and more, even I can only justify a sedan for fun daily driving, and since 90% of the time, fun daily driving is better done in a real sports car, what's the point? I like the idea of having two extremes--a sports car and an SUV--rather than one compromised mix. One car just doesn't make sense if you can afford two. I will always go for a sports car daily driver and an SUV for occasional use if those options are affordable to me. I can drive a sports car daily straight up 9 months out of the year, even here, and in winter, still, it can be used probably 2/3rds of the time. Take the SUV when it snows/pours/is way too cold for summer tires/Costco/whenever, and park it when you don't need the guzzler. Literally the best of both worlds.
Sounds to me a hot hatch is the best of both worlds. Sports car performance plus people/cargo carrying ability.
A Golf GTI or similar should be the ideal car for most of us.
Lot's of people, especially those who happen, through no fault of their own, to be non-height gifted, prefer the greater hip height of CUVs. Also, for a given passenger volume they have a shorter vehicle than the equivalent sedan, and they have better visibility.
Quote from: Raza on September 07, 2016, 08:29:23 PM
More and more, even I can only justify a sedan for fun daily driving, and since 90% of the time, fun daily driving is better done in a real sports car, what's the point? I like the idea of having two extremes--a sports car and an SUV--rather than one compromised mix. One car just doesn't make sense if you can afford two. I will always go for a sports car daily driver and an SUV for occasional use if those options are affordable to me. I can drive a sports car daily straight up 9 months out of the year, even here, and in winter, still, it can be used probably 2/3rds of the time. Take the SUV when it snows/pours/is way too cold for summer tires/Costco/whenever, and park it when you don't need the guzzler. Literally the best of both worlds.
This. But for me it's going to be nice roadster and beater pickup. Wife will keep the Focus.
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 08, 2016, 01:12:13 PM
Also, for a given passenger volume they have a shorter vehicle than the equivalent sedan,
Ultra important when most are driven around with only the driver or at the most a driver and passenger. :devil:
Quote from: Morris Minor on September 08, 2016, 01:12:13 PM
and they have better visibility.
For whom? I'm in the Jaguar and I can't see around over or through the damned things. :rage:
Quote from: MrH on September 07, 2016, 08:55:57 PM
You've finally seen the light :praise:
If I could only have one, it'd be the sports car. And when I have both, I'd still daily drive the sports car.
(And I've been an advocate of two cars for years)
Quote from: veeman on September 07, 2016, 09:28:05 PM
Well if you only can have one car, then a "sports" SUV would be the answer. I know Hector in Mexico City has tracked a few.
Ew, no.
Quote from: Madman on September 08, 2016, 12:36:05 PM
Sounds to me a hot hatch is the best of both worlds. Sports car performance plus people/cargo carrying ability.
A Golf GTI or similar should be the ideal car for most of us.
Roof.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 08, 2016, 10:56:33 AM
Thanks for laying that out for me :praise:
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
It's okay, Raza, you're allowed to be afraid of motorcycles. The men will ride them for you.
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
*EDIT* You got me :clap:
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
Says the guy that smokes and has an avid motorcyclist avatar :lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
:rage:
Driving a sports car is like skydiving. Riding a motorcycle is like base jumping. The first is safe and fun. The second is not so safe and thrilling. To each their own.
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
:lol: :clap:
Quote from: Raza on September 08, 2016, 08:58:00 PM
No, motorcycles are still just bicycles. Junk for children.
Either you die a child on a sports bike, or you live long enough to become a Harley rider. To paraphrase Harvey Dent. :devil:
:lol: :lol:
I aint even mad, that is hilarious.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 09, 2016, 08:51:32 AM
It's okay, Raza, you're allowed to be afraid of motorcycles. The men will ride them for you.
I'll eventually get one, to be honest. Nothing crazy. I'm too old for a sports bike, but a vintage-style or vintage standard, something like Benjamin Button rode in that movie. A Triumph, probably. Scrambler or Bonneville.
Quote from: Rich on September 09, 2016, 10:20:32 AM
Says the guy that smokes and has an avid motorcyclist avatar :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on September 10, 2016, 05:30:32 PM
I'll eventually get one, to be honest. Nothing crazy. I'm too old for a sports bike, but a vintage-style or vintage standard, something like Benjamin Button rode in that movie. A Triumph, probably. Scrambler or Bonneville.
Get one now. A nice Bonnie.
I'd like one myself. Fuel injected, decent power, and lots of customization options.
I don't like headlines like this. Most news headlines are like this now.
"RAV4 outsells Camry! Soon Midsize sedans will be extinct!"
"Women reach for rights! Men soon to be outmoded!"
"Homosexuality being more tolerated in society! Gays plan to eliminate all heterosexuals!"
Quote from: CaminoRacer on September 10, 2016, 10:40:57 PM
Get one now. A nice Bonnie.
I'd like one myself. Fuel injected, decent power, and lots of customization options.
No money, homey.
Quote from: 2o6 on September 11, 2016, 10:19:46 AM
I don't like headlines like this. Most news headlines are like this now.
"RAV4 outsells Camry! Soon Midsize sedans will be extinct!"
"Women reach for rights! Men soon to be outmoded!"
"Homosexuality being more tolerated in society! Gays plan to eliminate all heterosexuals!"
:lol:
Raza a Bonnie would be perfect for you. They are basically hipster Harleys- all show no go. Prev gen ones are probably slower than a Camry V6 which is glacial on a bike
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 12, 2016, 08:27:19 AM
:lol:
Raza a Bonnie would be perfect for you. They are basically hipster Harleys- all show no go. Prev gen ones are probably slower than a Camry V6 which is glacial on a bike
Bonneville and Scrambler are both high on my list. Thruxton is my favorite, but if I recall it has a super aggressive seating position.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 12, 2016, 08:27:19 AM
:lol:
Raza a Bonnie would be perfect for you. They are basically hipster Harleys- all show no go. Prev gen ones are probably slower than a Camry V6 which is glacial on a bike
I got rolled on by an SUV from a light a couple days ago. Doesn't mean it's not fun. :lol: