IN B4 "ZOMG how could you even consider selling S2k?!?!?!?" Yes, I know that S2000s are special and hold their value well and if I sell it, I'll probably never be able to justify the price of getting another one in the future. If I choose to sell it, all those things will be considered in my decision, and
discussing all that jazz is not the purpose of this thread. I'm getting tired of DDing something as big and cumbersome as the Explorer and the lack of fuel economy to go with it, and as much as I love the S2000, there's a whole lot of money tied up in it for something that doesn't get a ton of use. On top of all that, while I'm currently doing fine financially, I'm not super happy with my career path, so spending some money now as a way to help set myself up for lower future expenses has some appeal in case I decide to change careers (though obviously I have to balance that with savings levels).
FYI - at this point in time, this is all still very preliminary and mostly just-for-fun/a way to organize my thoughts. The only timeline constraint I have right now is that the federal incentive for Chevy is almost definitely going to begin phasing out after Q1 2019, so if I want a Volt, that factors in.
Goals/requirements
- Must Haves (if getting rid of Explorer)
- Better to drive in the mountains than the Explorer
- Can handle at least moderate winter weather in the mountains (i.e. PHEV with snow tires is probably OK - S2000 is not)
- Improved fuel economy
- Ability to handle at least moderately rough roads/trails
- No serious reliability concerns
- New or significantly newer (< 50k miles or so MAX)
- Nice to Haves - no specific priority, but I recognize that I won't be able to accomplish all of these
- AWD
- Improved infotainment, though I think I'd be happy with just about any new car's capabilities
- Adaptive cruise control
- PHEV - Almost all of my local trips are 30 miles or less
- MT - Basically only available on one option, but oh well
Options:
- Do nothing - This is the only option that involves keeping the S2000. Prices for SUV/CUVs that I'd prefer more than the Explorer are high enough that it's not worth doing an even swap, and I'm not currently in a good enough financial position to put enough extra towards a vehicle to upgrade without selling the S2k. Involves no work, so appeals to my procrastinative nature
- Sell S2000, keep Explorer - Almost definitely the most financially responsible decision. Almost no other upsides, though it's a big upside.
- Sell both current vehicles, replace with a crossover, eventually add 2nd car - Basic idea here is to spend some time with only one vehicle to see if a crossover would be capable enough for my needs. If it is, the eventual second car would likely be an older Miata. If it's not, the eventual second car would likely be an old Wrangler.
- Crosstrek Premium 6-speed - Probably most capable CUV in my price range that's not a Jeep. Only thing on the list that has a manual option. Not great fuel economy for it's class (though still WAY better than the Explorer). No adaptive cruise control for the trim I would buy. Looking at new because used doesn't save enough money, IMO.
- Slightly used Forester with 6-speed
- CX-5 - Based on reviews, best CUV to drive, but a trade-off with both ground clearance and interior practicality (at least compared to the CR-V, maybe not the Crosstrek). Proper AT instead of CVT in the CR-V. A little pricier, so I'd probably have to go used, but they don't hold their value as well as some other vehicles so that's not so bad.
- CR-V - Supposedly awesome engine. Surprising amount of ground clearance (8.2), so probably more capable than it's given credit for. Also probably have to go used.
- 2019 Rav-4 - don't know a ton about it, but it's getting redesigned for 2019, so adding it so I don't forget about it.
- Others to consider? Rav-4 seems mediocre and doesn't seem to have the same crazy resale as proper Toyota trucks. Not huge on FCA or GM. Are any of Koreans or Fords worth looking at?
- Sell both current vehicles, replace with a PHEV, and go 50/50 on a Wrangler with my dad for off-road use - I could basically stop using gas completely when I'm in Boulder/Denver. On top of whatever federal tax credit (varies based on battery size), CO offers a $5000 credit for new PHEVs, making them very competitively priced with ICE and traditional hybrid competitors.
- Crosstrek PHEV - 17 mile EV range. This is kind of option 3.5 since it wouldn't require the Wrangler, but there are very few details other than that it's supposed to be a 2019 model and use Toyota's Prime PHEV tech. Biggest problem is that Subaru is only selling them in the CA-equivalent emission requirements states, which doesn't not include CO so I'm not sure how the CO tax credit would work if I purchased out-of-state (I'd guess that as long as I register it as a new vehicle in CO, I'd still be eligible, but I haven't checked yet).
- Honda Clarity - 47 mile range. After checking out some reviews, this seems like the best all around car of the PHEVs. Definitely the most useable back seat, though that's not a super important consideration.
- Volt LT w/ comfort package - 53 mile range. PHEV that appeals to me the most based on reviews. Best range, reasonably quick, decent handling, full $7500 federal credit (though they're going to hit 200k this quarter, meaning Q1 2019 is the last quarter for the full incentive). No adaptive cruise control in the trim I'd get. Looks like I could get one or around $22k after incentives.
- Prius Prime - 25 mile range. Smaller electric-only range, but still enough for most of my local driving, and better hybrid fuel-economy. Probably better resale? A lot slower though. Only two rear seats (though the middle rear in the Volt is nearly unusable). Smaller battery so only eligible for ~$4k of federal credits, but lower price almost exactly makes up for that. Not seeing a ton in local inventories, so maybe hard to find?
- Others to consider? Ioniq is intriguing just because it'd be the cheapest option by a decent chunk, but apparently it doesn't really have an electric-only mode like most PHEVs.
Giulia/Stelvio and enjoy driving and life
Maybe you should hold on to it. :ohyeah:
Honda S2000 Prices Are Climbing, This 1,000 Mile Example Was Bought For $48,000
nless you've been living under a rock, you'll know that performance-focused Honda models from the late 1990s and early 2000s have been steadily rising in value and becoming the latest must-haves for JDM enthusiasts.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2018/11/310deb63-honda-s2000-sold-9.jpg)
Arguably the carmaker's best sports car from this time was the S2000 and recently, one changed hands on Bring A Trailer for a monumental $48,000. The buyer? None other than IndyCar racing driver Graham Rahal.
The S2000 in question is painted in New Formula Red and is a 2000 model year. It was originally delivered to a Honda dealership in Pennsylvania with just 12 miles (19 km) on the odometer before being put into storage.
When the time came in 2013, the car was registered for the road when the dealership was sold. The owner added 988 miles (1590 km) to the car during their ownership before the dealer responsible for this most recent sale got their hands on it.
Now is the time to buy an S2000
Not only does this S2000 have very few miles under its belt but both its exterior and interior remain in excellent condition. Additionally, it was sold to Rahal with the factory 16-inch wheels and the original Bridgestone Potenza S-02 tires.
As this S2000 is a 2000 model, it is an AP1-generation car. Consequently, it's 2.0-liter naturally-aspirated four-cylinder engine can rev until 9000 rpm and depending on the market, delivers between 237 hp and 247 hp. Power is sent to the rear wheels through a six-speed manual transmission and Torsen limited slip differential.
Speaking with The Drive about his purchase, Rahal said that he has always been a Honda guy and knew he had to buy the car as soon as he saw it.
"I am a lifelong Honda guy, and when this car came out it was just eye-catching and such a pure machine.
"I always knew we wanted one, and I wanted to collect one. This popped up, and it was just too perfect to pass up. My dad has an S600 in red that's being fully restored, and the 2 of these just belong together in the Rahal family collection."
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2018/11/honda-s2000-prices-climbing-1000-mile-example-bought-48000/
Quote from: cawimmer430 on November 11, 2018, 07:07:42 PM
Maybe you should hold on to it. :ohyeah:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 11, 2018, 06:00:54 PM
IN B4 "ZOMG how could you even consider selling S2k?!?!?!?" Yes, I know that S2000s are special and hold their value well and if I sell it, I'll probably never be able to justify the price of getting another one in the future. If I choose to sell it, all those things will be considered in my decision, and discussing all that jazz is not the purpose of this thread.
^I saw that.^ :ohyeah:
But I tried... :tounge:
I think selling the S2K is fine. Toys are wholly emotional... the day you wake up and don't get that emotional satisfaction from a toy is the day it has to go.
Of your options I'd say maybe hold on to the Explorer and see what happens with the Crosstrek PHEV as it sounds like that would be your perfect vehicle. Would suck to jump on something else now only to find out that they launched it nationwide in 2020... and I feel like given its market the demand is going to be through the roof.
Is a full EV an option? I feel like the Hyundai Kona could also work, if you can live with electricity only.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 11, 2018, 08:34:35 PM
Is a full EV an option? I feel like the Hyundai Kona could also work, if you can live with electricity only.
Eh, let's say no. I pretty frequently go to my dad's condo in the mountains, which is about 80 miles each way plus whatever driving I do while I'm up there (could be a lot depending on where I'm going hiking/snowboarding), and there's not a convenient place to recharge at the condo itself. I'd have to either run a long extension cord out of the condo into the parking lot or use a public charging station nearby, neither of which is ideal.
Plus I do take occasional road trips, and if you meant the Kona could maybe work as an only car (as opposed to having the Wrangler), I don't know that I would trust a full EV out in the woods at the end of a long dirt road.
So I could probably make it work, but it'd be more complicated than I'd like.
Kona EV's are FWD. It would be like taking a Chevy Bolt off road.
I vote selling them all and buying a Crosstrek.
Crosstrek seems tiny. Why not outback or Forester?
I think the Forester came with a manual as far back as 2014. Might be a good thing to replace the Explorer with.
Quote from: 2o6 on November 12, 2018, 10:43:25 AM
Kona EV's are FWD. It would be like taking a Chevy Bolt off road.
I vote selling them all and buying a Crosstrek.
That's a good point and another reason why I wouldn't get one, but you'd probably be surprised at some of the FWD sedans I see on some pretty rough roads out here. I can't imagine what their underbody looks like, but in good conditions, ground clearance is much more important for the types of roads I'm looking at.
But yeah, after sleeping on it, the PHEVs are really tempting because of the tax credits (I think all the PHEVs I'm looking at would be less than the Crosstrek I'm looking at), but the Crosstrek makes the most sense for what I need.
I'll probably take Sporty's suggestion and wait to get some more details on the Crosstrek PHEV though, and see if tax credits make it worth it to buy out of state.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 12, 2018, 11:25:05 AM
Crosstrek seems tiny. Why not outback or Forester?
Quote from: Xer0 on November 12, 2018, 11:28:32 AM
I think the Forester came with a manual as far back as 2014. Might be a good thing to replace the Explorer with.
2018, actually. They just removed that option for the new 2019 model. There are a handful of new 2018s still out there, but I don't know if that will still be the case when I'm actually ready to buy.
I was leaning towards new for Subies because they keep their value too damn well around here, and a new Forester with the options I want is a bit more than I want to spent. That said, of their three CUVs (not counting Ascent - too new), the Forester holds its value the least well, so I'll stick it on the list.
Outback is definitely too expensive.
Also, I don't necessarily see small as a bad thing. I'd care more about the more powerful engine in the Forester.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 12, 2018, 11:37:37 AM
2018, actually. They just removed that option for the new 2019 model. There are a handful of new 2018s still out there, but I don't know if that will still be the case when I'm actually ready to buy.
I was leaning towards new for Subies because they keep their value too damn well around here, and a new Forester with the options I want is a bit more than I want to spent. That said, of their three CUVs (not counting Ascent - too new), the Forester holds its value the least well, so I'll stick it on the list.
Outback is definitely too expensive.
Also, I don't necessarily see small as a bad thing. I'd care more about the more powerful engine in the Forester.
It looks like 2012 was the last year for the manual+turbo combo though. That 2.5 is supposed to be a bit of a dog.
That's quite a tough decision to make.
Get rid of a semi-exotic piece of automotive magic that will only increase in value over the foreseeable future, or join the plebs and get a RAV4 PHEV.
Quote from: Xer0 on November 12, 2018, 12:31:34 PM
It looks like 2012 was the last year for the manual+turbo combo though. That 2.5 is supposed to be a bit of a dog.
Basically all of the vehicles that I'm looking at are gonna be pretty slow. Despite 292 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, even the Explorer takes 8 seconds to get to 60. XTs, regardless of transmission, are out of my price range unless I go older than I want to. One of the goals of replacing the Explorer is to end up with a significantly newer vehicle that should last me a very long time.
I already have a steep, high-altitude test-drive route near a Subaru dealership that I've planned out before I make any final decision.
Sounds like your heart is set on selling the S2000 which is fine. 4Runner?
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 12, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
Sounds like your heart is set on selling the S2000 which is fine.
I'm leaning that way, but it's definitely not a final decision. I've just gone over every pro and con of keeping or selling that car many, many times on my own, so I just didn't want an entire thread centered around that rather than providing input on the other options that I'm a bit less knowledgeable about.
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 12, 2018, 12:54:25 PM
4Runner?
That was my original long term plan for an Explorer replacement, but currently they're out of my price range new and hold their value too well to be worth it used, plus probably wouldn't provide much of an efficiency or driving quality upgrade over the Explorer.
4Runners are junk.
Kia Borrego or die.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 12, 2018, 01:10:44 PM
4Runners are junk.
Kia Borrego or die.
Tf is this "best of" resurrection of old members
I disturbed the force, and Nick felt it.
CX-5
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 12, 2018, 01:26:08 PM
I disturbed the force, and Nick felt it.
My bones were wicked cold this morning. I thought is was just the weather.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 12, 2018, 12:40:59 PM
That's quite a tough decision to make.
Get rid of a semi-exotic piece of automotive magic that will only increase in value over the foreseeable future, or join the plebs and get a RAV4 PHEV.
TBH, if they made a RAV4 PHEV (currently only sell a traditional hybrid - Prius Prime is currently the only Toyota plug-in hybrid), it would probably be top of the list right now.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 12, 2018, 12:40:59 PM
That's quite a tough decision to make.
Get rid of a semi-exotic piece of automotive magic that will only increase in value over the foreseeable future, or join the plebs and get a RAV4 PHEV.
Put it in a different context.... pay to insure and maintain a car for internet props, or make a practical choice better for your wallet and life. Hmmm.....
Regarding slowness... I imagine altitude makes things even slower... what about a turbo vehicle? I can't speak to their reliability, but the Jetta Hybrids had a turbo lump.... could be the best of all worlds. Also what about the Golf Alltrack? Also seems perfect for you and I think newer VWs have finally got their shit together reliability wise.
Golf Alltrack is literally the highest rated small or midsize car on Consumer Reports. Two points higher than the Outback.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 12, 2018, 02:38:46 PM
Put it in a different context.... pay to insure and maintain a car for internet props, or make a practical choice better for your wallet and life. Hmmm.....
Regarding slowness... I imagine altitude makes things even slower... what about a turbo vehicle? I can't speak to their reliability, but the Jetta Hybrids had a turbo lump.... could be the best of all worlds. Also what about the Golf Alltrack? Also seems perfect for you and I think newer VWs have finally got their shit together reliability wise.
There's no appreciable advantage for me to get a lower ground clearance car without the benefit of the EV/PHEV tax credits, so traditional hybrids are out.
The Golf Alltrack is a good thought, but lower ground clearance than all the other CUV options, and I'm not sold on reliability and/or resale value compared to the others. Plus part me of still wants to tell them to fuck off from the dieselgate crap.
Outlander PHEV? (EW)
Quote from: 2o6 on November 12, 2018, 04:34:41 PM
Outlander PHEV? (EW)
Is there a good reason to look at it? I saw that it exists, but kind of assumed it sucks lol. Only 22 miles of EV only range, high MSRP, and doesn't qualify for full federal credit makes it the most expensive PHEV option (though it could eliminate or at least delay the need for a dedicated 4x4 vehicle).
Screw all this PHEV junk. Wait for the 2020 Bronco.
Leftover Nissan Frontier Pro-4X 6 speed manual
Fun car and TRRRRRRRRRUCK all in one.
Quote from: 68_427 on November 12, 2018, 05:29:49 PM
Leftover Nissan Frontier Pro-4X 6 speed manual
Fun car and TRRRRRRRRRUCK all in one.
6-speeds is too much shifting. Upgrade to a 3-speed Ford Toploader. Also upgrade the rest of the truck to a not-Nissan.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 12, 2018, 05:32:32 PM
6-speeds is too much shifting. Upgrade to a 3-speed Ford Toploader. Also upgrade the rest of the truck to a not-Nissan.
IDK man the new Titan sounds badass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-YXIYIr0xo
Quote from: 68_427 on November 12, 2018, 05:29:49 PM
Leftover Nissan Frontier Pro-4X 6 speed manual
Fun car and TRRRRRRRRRUCK all in one.
I test drove an Xterra Pro-4x 6-speed and would have bought it if it didn't smell like a mixture of cigarettes and heavy duty cleaner. I really liked that car, and wish I had held out for one of those instead of buying the Explorer. If I sold the S2000 and found a really good deal on one of those, it's probably the only proper BOF that I'd consider, but it looks like they're a bit pricey for age/mileage I 'd want.
Quote from: 68_427 on November 12, 2018, 05:34:42 PM
IDK man the new Titan sounds badass
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-YXIYIr0xo
My 2.0L Ranger with a tractor muffler sounds better.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 12, 2018, 06:26:50 PM
My 2.0L Ranger with a tractor muffler sounds better.
vids or shens
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 12, 2018, 06:17:12 PM
I test drove an Xterra Pro-4x 6-speed and would have bought it if it didn't smell like a mixture of cigarettes and heavy duty cleaner. I really liked that car, and wish I had held out for one of those instead of buying the Explorer. If I sold the S2000 and found a really good deal on one of those, it's probably the only proper BOF that I'd consider, but it looks like they're a bit pricey for age/mileage I 'd want.
My Optima had a cigarette odor when I bought it. New cabin air filter and some odor grabbing baking soda got rid of it
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 12, 2018, 06:38:36 PM
My Optima had a cigarette odor when I bought it. New cabin air filter and some odor grabbing baking soda got rid of it
This was a really strong odor. I wasn't gonna risk it. Besides, if it's that easy, the dealership should have taken care of it anyway. Didn't make me feel great about potentially giving them my money.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 12, 2018, 06:38:36 PM
My Optima had a cigarette odor when I bought it. New cabin air filter and some odor grabbing baking soda got rid of it
Do you leave an open box of baking soda on the dash, or did you sprinkle it all over everything?
I parked in the garage, opened the windows, sprinkled it all over the carpet and used some kind of odor removal spray on all the upholstry. Let it air out overnight and then vacuumed it all up.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 13, 2018, 05:10:46 AM
I parked in the garage, opened the windows, sprinkled it all over the carpet and used some kind of odor removal spray on all the upholstry. Let it air out overnight and then vacuumed it all up.
I need to do that to Dakota. PO had rottweilers ride in the truck, so the seats and carpet were covered in fur and dog stank. I got the fur out, and scrubbed the seats with a cleaner. They look clean now, but it still smells like dog... and I have two of my own big stinky dogs, so if I can smell it, it really smells.
I used Arm & Hammer pet odor baking soda. We use it for the dog too. Works really well
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hbGvAGDyL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/0f13ef18-f718-4836-a934-dc5e1c76907a_1.7e710f3461da9567e3eb3a8b0aab4821.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 12:04:54 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hbGvAGDyL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/0f13ef18-f718-4836-a934-dc5e1c76907a_1.7e710f3461da9567e3eb3a8b0aab4821.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
IIRC, I actually asked you about how hard it would be to remove the odor from that Xterra, and you basically said, "Possible, but usually a lot of work." Maybe your techniques have improved since then. :lol:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 13, 2018, 12:23:05 PM
IIRC, I actually asked you about how hard it would be to remove the odor from that Xterra, and you basically said, "Possible, but usually a lot of work." Maybe your techniques have improved since then. :lol:
I mean, there's never any 100% guarantee when it comes to odors. For me, it's my usual interior routine (vacuuming, shampooing, etc) combined with something like one of those odor bombs and/or fabric odor spray stuff. Most pet-type odors will come out, no problem. It's smoked-in vehicles that are hard to really say "this will definitely work." Cars that have been smoked in lightly, not a problem. Heavy smokers? Not so much. If you ever get the chance, try shampooing the headliner above the driver's area (particularly right by the window where the smoke tends to flow over and where they flick their cigs) in a heavy smoker's vehicle...it's disgusting the amount of soot/tar/whatever buildup drips and oozes out of there.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 12:29:47 PM
I mean, there's never any 100% guarantee when it comes to odors. For me, it's my usual interior routine (vacuuming, shampooing, etc) combined with something like one of those odor bombs and/or fabric odor spray stuff. Most pet-type odors will come out, no problem. It's smoked-in vehicles that are hard to really say "this will definitely work." Cars that have been smoked in lightly, not a problem. Heavy smokers? Not so much. If you ever get the chance, try shampooing the headliner above the driver's area (particularly right by the window where the smoke tends to flow over and where they flick their cigs) in a heavy smoker's vehicle...it's disgusting the amount of soot/tar/whatever buildup drips and oozes out of there.
That's probably a much better representation of what you actually told me at the time. Like I said, it was a pretty strong odor and I didn't want to take the chance.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 13, 2018, 12:31:25 PM
That's probably a much better representation of what you actually told me at the time. Like I said, it was a pretty strong odor and I didn't want to take the chance.
Did you end up doing anything for it? Did it work? I do not recall if there was an end result.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 12:32:27 PM
Did you end up doing anything for it? Did it work? I do not recall if there was an end result.
Nah, I was just shopping. I wasn't gonna go through the effort of de-stinking a car for the dealership.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 12:04:54 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/41hbGvAGDyL._SL500_AC_SS350_.jpg)
(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/0f13ef18-f718-4836-a934-dc5e1c76907a_1.7e710f3461da9567e3eb3a8b0aab4821.jpeg?odnHeight=450&odnWidth=450&odnBg=FFFFFF)
Is Dakota odor bomb for use in Dakotas, or is it just Dakota scented?
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 12:29:47 PM
I mean, there's never any 100% guarantee when it comes to odors. For me, it's my usual interior routine (vacuuming, shampooing, etc) combined with something like one of those odor bombs and/or fabric odor spray stuff. Most pet-type odors will come out, no problem. It's smoked-in vehicles that are hard to really say "this will definitely work." Cars that have been smoked in lightly, not a problem. Heavy smokers? Not so much. If you ever get the chance, try shampooing the headliner above the driver's area (particularly right by the window where the smoke tends to flow over and where they flick their cigs) in a heavy smoker's vehicle...it's disgusting the amount of soot/tar/whatever buildup drips and oozes out of there.
I bought a car from a heavy cigar smoker once. I originally thought the interior chrome was poorly gold plated.
It wasn't. It was tobacco residue.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 13, 2018, 12:48:12 PM
Is Dakota odor bomb for use in Dakotas, or is it just Dakota scented?
They have different scents. But yes, they're only for use in Dakotas. Otherwise they will explode.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2018, 12:48:56 PM
I bought a car from a heavy cigar smoker once. I originally thought the interior chrome was poorly gold plated.
It wasn't. It was tobacco residue.
Were they at least good cigars, or were they Black n Milds?
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 13, 2018, 01:06:47 PM
They have different scents. But yes, they're only for use in Dakotas. Otherwise they will explode.
Too risky. I will go with baking soda. I use it on my arm pits, so I can trust it on my truck.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 13, 2018, 12:48:56 PM
I bought a car from a heavy cigar smoker once. I originally thought the interior chrome was poorly gold plated.
It wasn't. It was tobacco residue.
Lol, reminds me of seeing old pictures of my husband's family's apartment. The wallpaper was white in 1980. Yellow brown in 2006!
Smokers are the worst. I'm so glad my dad finally quit.
So, I'm still not 100% sure on this, but from what I'm reading, it sounds like I can still qualify for the CO EV credit by purchasing a vehicle (Crosstrek PHEV) out of state as long as it's never registered in that other state. Assuming it gets the same federal credit as the Prius Prime (maybe more since it has nearly identical range, but has AWD and is less aerodynamic, so it might have a slightly bigger battery), I'd get about $9500 in tax credits, so as long as the MSRP is about $33k or less, I'd effectively be paying the same amount as the ICE model I'll likely get otherwise.
The CO credit begins to phase out after 2019 ($5000 in 2019, $4000 in 2020, $2500 in 2021, $0 after), so it might make the most sense to wait it out for now and see if they offer the PHEV version in CO in late 2019 as a 2020 model, as long as I leave myself time to buy from out of state towards the end of the year if needed.
Man there is nothing more painful for me to see than a brand new car (still with temporary plates on) with the driver smoking a cigarette inside it.
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 16, 2018, 11:33:05 AM
Man there is nothing more painful for me to see than a brand new car (still with temporary plates on) with the driver smoking a cigarette inside it.
Painful for you? How do you think the cigarette feels?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 13, 2018, 01:24:03 PM
Were they at least good cigars, or were they Black n Milds?
Too risky. I will go with baking soda. I use it on my arm pits, so I can trust it on my truck.
Big phallic looking things. Other than that, who knows?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on November 16, 2018, 12:39:15 PM
Big phallic looking things. Other than that, who knows?
Phallic, eh? I'll look it up.
Damn brah looking good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ5hdkQrUSU
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 19, 2018, 11:47:12 AM
Damn brah looking good
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQ5hdkQrUSU
Oh nice, thanks! They've been pretty mum about this vehicle, so it's nice to see them starting to loan them out to media.
I'll check out the video a bit later after I'm done working.
Ugh as much as I love Subies the mileage is horrible..
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 19, 2018, 07:56:08 PM
Ugh as much as I love Subies the mileage is horrible..
It's underwhelming, but still better than the base car (especially the 6-speed I'd get), and probably better than anything else I'd consider taking up rough roads. 17 miles of pure EV would still be enough for most of my local driving too.
MSRP ($35k) is higher than I was hoping though. With federal & local incentives, I'd essentially save $9.5k, making it about $25.5k net. That's about $2k more than I'd pay for the ICE model I want, but also has more options (CVT + EyeSight + Leather, essentially). Getting a ICE model with equivalent options as the PHEV would be about $27.5k though, so it'd be a great deal in that regard.
So it'd basically come down to 6-speed + ~$2k in-hand + cargo space vs. CVT + EyeSight + Leather + more fuel savings + faster + moral superiority.
Choice sounds obvious to me, especially if the PHEV is as fast as the manual.
For what it is.... bad aerodynamics, big mud bogging tires, legit mechanical AWD.... 35 MPG sounds pretty good, as does 90 MPGe
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 19, 2018, 08:39:54 PM
Choice sounds obvious to me, especially if the PHEV is as fast as the manual.
For what it is.... bad aerodynamics, big mud bogging tires, legit mechanical AWD.... 35 MPG sounds pretty good, as does 90 MPGe
FWIW, they are putting low-rolling resistance tires on the PHEV, so swapping out for snows and/or ATs will have some amount of negative effect. I haven't done any research into how much of an effect that would be yet.
I don't know if the manual is any faster than the CVT for the ICE models, but I think that video said (I was only kind of half watching) the PHEV is about one second faster to 60 than the ICE model, which is a pretty big difference.
What's the aspect ratio on the stock tires? I assume they're normal-width wheels/tires (ie, not like the BMW i3), in which case you shouldn't lose more than a couple MPG for some decent AS/AT tires.
Have you driven a Crosstrek? They always seem OK on paper, then you drive one and realize it's a really expensive econobox and I don't think I could deal with something so ridiculously underpowered
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 19, 2018, 10:38:20 PM
What's the aspect ratio on the stock tires? I assume they're normal-width wheels/tires (ie, not like the BMW i3), in which case you shouldn't lose more than a couple MPG for some decent AS/AT tires.
Yeah, same size as the Limited ICE model, just the low-resistance compound.
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 05:48:55 AM
Have you driven a Crosstrek? They always seem OK on paper, then you drive one and realize it's a really expensive econobox and I don't think I could deal with something so ridiculously underpowered
Not yet, but I'm aware of their performance figures. The ICE models aren't that much slower than my old Accord or the Explorer, despite its V8, and at least with a 6-speed I can be in the right gear more often. If the PHEV is actually a full second faster than the ICE model to 60, then it's faster than the Explorer.
Not to mention that there are thousands of those things driving all over steep mountain highways at 10k+ feet. They're not exactly an enthusiast's dream, but "ridiculously unpowered" is a bit of an exaggeration as well.
I do wish they offered the Crosstrek with the 2.5 from the Forester for a bit more power, and trying to find a 6-speed Forester is also still a possibility (though the added weight eats into the extra power a bit, so it's not all that much faster).
No, "ridiculously underpowered" sums the Crosstrek up well once you actually drive it. The lack of power shows up extremely noticeable at cruising speed. The relative light weight helps (a bit) from a stop. I couldn't imagine one at altitude... Though I guess there might be some charm to just keeping it floored all the time (but then you have to deal with terrible engine sounds).
You live at altitude - GET A TURBO
The electric cruising range is barely going to be noticeable. Add in days of using the heat, AC, or somewhat aggressive throttle input (required in something so underpowered) and it pretty much will cut that range dramatically... Then you are left with a relatively not fuel efficient car thing.
There are better Subaru choices if you want a Subaru. Better CUV options if you want a CUV. Sportier options if you want that...
Plot twist! I forgot exactly what your budget was, but the new Rav4 actually seems like a really sweet ride and it comes with a torque vectoring AWD system in the "Adventure" model apparently. Its a good deal faster than the Crosstek too and actually looks kinda cool, imo. Plus the hybrid is actually powerful, at 220hp, and cheap at only an $800 upcharge.
Ooooo good call.
Pretty sure you could get a fairly nice 2018 Stelvio for ~$35k... and still enjoy driving
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/alfa-romeo/stelvio-pricing/
He wants to hike, not sit on the side of the road
Ooooo Alfa fearmongering.
My friends Giulia got lemon lawed.
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 11:43:44 AM
Pretty sure you could get a fairly nice 2018 Stelvio for ~$35k... and still enjoy driving
https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/alfa-romeo/stelvio-pricing/
If a Forester equipped how he wants is more than he wants to spend, what in the fuck makes you think a $35K anything is in play? :facepalm:
And if he's fine with keeping 2 N/A cars at altitude he obviously doesn't NEED a turbo :hammerhead:
Do you shit up discussions like this on purpose or is it a compulsion you can't control?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 20, 2018, 12:04:25 PM
If a Forester equipped how he wants is more than he wants to spend, what in the fuck makes you think a $35K anything is in play? :facepalm:
And if he's fine with keeping 2 N/A cars at altitude he obviously doesn't NEED a turbo :hammerhead:
Do you shit up discussions like this on purpose or is it a compulsion you can't control?
It can fill the role well of a sporty car plus all weather SUV. Nothing else being discussed comes close. Gets acceptable gas mileage. Yes it's expensive, but wtf a hybrid Crosstrek or hybrid Adventurer Rav4 can also cost $35-40k... and the Stelvio would kick the crap out of either and look better doing it.
In the age of turbo engines, it's sort of self defeating to not get one if you live at high altitude since the performance advantage is greatly multiplied at altitude.
Forgive me for having a unique thought and not hunker down in groupthinkSpin
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 12:44:58 PM
It can fill the role well of a sporty car plus all weather SUV. Nothing else being discussed comes close. Gets acceptable gas mileage. Yes it's expensive, but wtf a hybrid Crosstrek or hybrid Adventurer Rav4 can also cost $35-40k... and the Stelvio would kick the crap out of either and look better doing it.
In the age of turbo engines, it's sort of self defeating to not get one if you live at high altitude since the performance advantage is greatly multiplied at altitude.
Forgive me for having a unique thought and not hunker down in groupthinkSpin
Can't argue with looking better, but it won't be doing much else sitting in a garage on a lift
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 20, 2018, 12:04:25 PM
If a Forester equipped how he wants is more than he wants to spend, what in the fuck makes you think a $35K anything is in play? :facepalm:
And if he's fine with keeping 2 N/A cars at altitude he obviously doesn't NEED a turbo :hammerhead:
Do you shit up discussions like this on purpose or is it a compulsion you can't control?
Just ignore him. He's either not trying to be helpful or he hasn't actually taken the time to read the thread and understand what my requirements are.
Turbocharge a Crosstrek PHEV.
Quote from: Xer0 on November 20, 2018, 11:08:23 AM
Plot twist! I forgot exactly what your budget was, but the new Rav4 actually seems like a really sweet ride and it comes with a torque vectoring AWD system in the "Adventure" model apparently. Its a good deal faster than the Crosstek too and actually looks kinda cool, imo. Plus the hybrid is actually powerful, at 220hp, and cheap at only an $800 upcharge.
Good thought - I didn't realize it was getting a redesign. The 2018s have terrible ground clearance for this class and according to the press release the 2019s are getting "more than half an inch" extra, which probably wouldn't be enough, but maybe they weren't specific because the Adventure trim will get extra.
That said, based on 2018 pricing, it might end up being out of my price range as a new model.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on November 20, 2018, 01:06:43 PM
Turbocharge a Crosstrek PHEV.
I looked into turboing a base Crosstrek. Evidently that engine was designed specifically for efficiency and thus built so that the components are as light as possible, so engine mods aren't recommended.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 20, 2018, 12:56:43 PM
Just ignore him. He's either not trying to be helpful or he hasn't actually taken the time to read the thread and understand what my requirements are.
You brushed off the Outlander PHEV for only having 22 miles of range (25% better than the Crosstrek) and are posting about $35k shit... While listing options involving even more expensive ev's plus a 50/50 on a Wrangler.
You are right, I have no idea what you have in mind
-meh-
I see rotors point. I think an M3 would suit you well.
Get you an Ecosport
Quote from: 2o6 on November 20, 2018, 02:01:14 PM
Get you an Ecosport
With a 6" lift kit and 33" Super Swampers plz.
What about a compass or Renegade? You can have your manual AWD Cake and eat it too
Quote from: 2o6 on November 20, 2018, 03:20:26 PM
What about a compass or Renegade? You can have your manual AWD Cake and eat it too
Why would anyone who knows better want to touch a FCA product?
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 20, 2018, 01:31:54 PM
I see rotors point. I think an M3 would suit you well.
But why? Charlie doesn't have any kids he needs to impress yet.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 20, 2018, 03:23:07 PM
Why would anyone who knows better want to touch a FCA product?
This is a very good point.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 20, 2018, 03:23:07 PM
Why would anyone who knows better want to touch a FCA product?
Oh oh.. Pick me teacher -raises hand -
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 03:56:45 PM
Oh oh.. Pick me teacher -raises hand -
A mind is a terrible thing to lose. Okay, go ahead r0tor.
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 12:44:58 PM
It can fill the role well of a sporty car plus all weather SUV. Nothing else being discussed comes close. Gets acceptable gas mileage. Yes it's expensive, but wtf a hybrid Crosstrek or hybrid Adventurer Rav4 can also cost $35-40k... and the Stelvio would kick the crap out of either and look better doing it.
In the age of turbo engines, it's sort of self defeating to not get one if you live at high altitude since the performance advantage is greatly multiplied at altitude.
Forgive me for having a unique thought and not hunker down in groupthinkSpin
He obviously doesn't care about having a sporty car, otherwise the S2K would not be potentially for sale
Obviously not bothered by no turbo at altitude having owned an S2K at altitude
It's one thing to break the groupthink; it's another to bash people for not factoring in things the OP never even hinted at giving a shit about
But between this and the IRS I'm guessing you had a bad day and this has nothing to do with the SPIN
I was gonna suggest getting a Mazda3 but just found out it doesn't have an IRS, so you should stick with a Crosstrek.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 20, 2018, 05:07:53 PM
He obviously doesn't care about having a sporty car, otherwise the S2K would not be potentially for sale
Obviously not bothered by no turbo at altitude having owned an S2K at altitude
It's one thing to break the groupthink; it's another to bash people for not factoring in things the OP never even hinted at giving a shit about
But between this and the IRS I'm guessing you had a bad day and this has nothing to do with the SPIN
Meh, I was actually going to say your turbocharger vw was the best non-alfa suggestion...
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 20, 2018, 04:33:13 PM
A mind is a terrible thing to lose. Okay, go ahead r0tor.
The answer is always JGC and Giulia
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 20, 2018, 05:14:22 PM
I was gonna suggest getting a Mazda3 but just found out it doesn't have an IRS, so you should stick with a Crosstrek.
:golfclap: :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 06:49:33 PM
The answer is always JGC and Giulia
I was hoping for Ferrari
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 06:49:33 PM
The answer is always JGC and Giulia
If you enjoy walking
Quote from: MrH on November 20, 2018, 03:25:38 PM
But why? Charlie doesn't have any kids he needs to impress yet.
I'd have gotten an E46 M3 instead of the S2000 if I didn't want a convertible.
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 01:10:21 PM
You brushed off the Outlander PHEV for only having 22 miles of range (25% better than the Crosstrek)
I brushed it off because it was the most expensive option at the time (Crosstrek pricing hadn't come out yet, which is the same MSRP but about a grand less in incentives) and doesn't seem to stand out in any particular way. Reviews are mediocre, non-plug-in mileage is worse than an ICE-only Crosstrek would be, it'll probably have horrendous resale, and I mentioned the range because it's not long enough to make up for the rest of its deficiencies.
FWIW, I also said I was disappointed with the Crosstrek's range, but the rest of the vehicle is better suited for me.
Quote from: r0tor on November 20, 2018, 01:10:21 PM
are posting about $35k shit
Literally everything I've mentioned as a viable option that's more than $25k is eligible for at $9.5k-$12.5k of tax incentives.
And FWIW, option 1 (do nothing) is still a possibility. But that's the "own a sporty car" option.
What about a Stelvio? Turbocharged, only $35K (ok $40K but who's counting), your unborn kids will think you're cool, can't put a price on that.
Keep S2000 forever and buy an old ass first gen RAV4.
There are 2018 Volts for sale near me that are going for about $5k under MSRP. $31.5k as I'd equip it makes for $19k after tax incentives. Shit, I could sell the S2000 and keep the Explorer for hiking duty and still afford that. I know that's the most unthusiast move ever but it's tempting.
Chevy hit the 200k threshold last in Q4 2018 though, so I'd have to do it by the end of Q1 to get the full credit.
FWIW
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTK1biHej_k
All of the compromises he mentions are basically the reasons why I like the Volt.
But every time I start looking into the Volt, I'm quickly reminded that the Clarity seems like a much nicer vehicle for not much more money. I don't really need the extra space though, and my garage is not huge, so the Clarity might be a tight fit.
For me, the Clarity being a sedan is a deal killer. The Volt is a liftback.
Clarity is hideous, but Volt is too close to an economy car in size/looks for me.
Oh, the Volt is definitely the better looking car by a long shot. I think it's a legitimately good looking vehicle. But exterior styling is pretty much the bottom of my priority list.
The Clarity's interior looks so much nicer though, has a much more usable back seat (pretty low priority for me, but still nice to have), and comes standard with a lot of tech that's optional on the Volt (adaptive cruise, lane keep, emergency braking). For some reason the Volts with all that tech are keeping their value much better (I guess people who want EVs also want cool tech), so even with the tax incentives, they're out of my price range. I agree that a liftback would be nice, but in this hypothetical scenario, I still have the Explorer (I don't think I can get around that if I go the PHEV route).
Plus I'm admittedly Honda-biased, though I don't know much about specific issues related to either of these vehicles.
That said, in general, I prefer smaller vehicles, and the Volt is 2-3 grand cheaper. Too bad they don't have an Insight PHEV.
Truthfully, cost wise, the Insight >>> *. Based on 15K miles/yr, Denver gas and electricity prices, a typical EV would save you like $4 a month. An Insight costs the avg person like $40-45/month to fill up. They will have way better resale value and less issues as well (I've heard of a few people who had big problems with Volts)
I love the concept of EVs, but the more I run the numbers the less sense it makes, even in expensive states like CA/NY, let alone cheap energy states like CO/NC :( If I could trade the Optima in today I'd get an Insight, or if I couldn't stomach the performance I'd get an Accord Hybrid.
An Insight doesn't come with any tax incentives though, so it ends up being more expensive. Almost 25k how I'd probably get it, and that doesn't even include heated seats which are only available on the highest trim at $28k+
Also, my garage (where I'd charge) is in a separate building that's only garages, across the parking lot from my condo's building. I'm not 100% on this, but I doubt that each garage is metered separately so I'd guess that the HOA will end up paying that bill, though obviously it'd be taken into account for future dues increases, and I suppose that they could pass rules to somehow manage that differently.
Plus I'll admit that, personally, there's some intangible value for me to be able to use EV-only for pretty much all my local driving that you guys may or may not agree with. :lol:
Ah, that is significant. I'd still wait for a used Insight. Wouldn't jump on a tax incentive to buy an inferior car
TBH, I'll probably still just get a Crosstrek. :lol:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on November 11, 2018, 06:00:54 PM
Goals/requirements
- Must Haves (if getting rid of Explorer)
- Better to drive in the mountains than the Explorer
- Can handle at least moderate winter weather in the mountains (i.e. PHEV with snow tires is probably OK - S2000 is not)
- Improved fuel economy
- Ability to handle at least moderately rough roads/trails
- No serious reliability concerns
- New or significantly newer (< 50k miles or so MAX)
- Nice to Haves - no specific priority, but I recognize that I won't be able to accomplish all of these
- AWD
- Improved infotainment, though I think I'd be happy with just about any new car's capabilities
- Adaptive cruise control
- PHEV - Almost all of my local trips are 30 miles or less
- MT - Basically only available on one option, but oh well
I think this pretty much ticks all the boxes:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=504638374&zip=19123&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D19123%26startYear%3D2007%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DTT%26makeCodeList%3DAUDI%26searchRadius%3D0%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2007&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=TT&makeCodeList=AUDI&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=TT&clickType=listing
Raza why don't you buy it and stop torturing us with these recommendations
You've been telling other people to buy the TT since I was shopping for my Z :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 21, 2019, 05:10:10 AM
Raza why don't you buy it and stop torturing us with these recommendations
You've been telling other people to buy the TT since I was shopping for my Z :lol:
I've been considering it. Something like this:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=496813407&zip=19123&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D19123%26startYear%3D2007%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DTT%26makeCodeList%3DAUDI%26searchRadius%3D0%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2007&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=TT&makeCodeList=AUDI&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=TT&clickType=listing
It's a great looking car that's pretty good to drive (I enjoyed the first generation, the second is supposed to be a lot better), and AWD makes it the ideal year round convertible. Right now, though, with the Z4 and the S4, I'm not too motivated to change cars.
Although, I will say had you bought the TT instead of the 350Z back then, you'd probably still have it because it is far more refined and probably less tiring to drive daily than the Z, and you'd never have gone through the revolving door of cars since then and avoided some pain and suffering too!
The problem with something like the TT though is that you get 95% of the driving experience with a GTI but an additional 500% practicality. Besides looks, or the TT I5 in the RS, there's nothing there that isn't available exactly the same somewhere else.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 21, 2019, 09:46:36 AM
The problem with something like the TT though is that you get 95% of the driving experience with a GTI but an additional 500% practicality. Besides looks, or the TT I5 in the RS, there's nothing there that isn't available exactly the same somewhere else.
https://youtu.be/5qYUyEAskEA
Quote from: Raza on January 20, 2019, 09:28:57 PM
I think this pretty much ticks all the boxes:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=504638374&zip=19123&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D19123%26startYear%3D2007%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DTT%26makeCodeList%3DAUDI%26searchRadius%3D0%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2007&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=TT&makeCodeList=AUDI&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=TT&clickType=listing
If you think that ticks all of my requirements, then you and I have very different ideas of "moderately rough roads/trails." :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 21, 2019, 10:09:34 AM
https://youtu.be/5qYUyEAskEA
Ok? You know the Golf convertible was a thing right?
Quote from: Raza on January 21, 2019, 06:47:32 AM
I've been considering it. Something like this:
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=496813407&zip=19123&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D19123%26startYear%3D2007%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Don%26endYear%3D2019%26modelCodeList%3DTT%26makeCodeList%3DAUDI%26searchRadius%3D0%26transmissionCodes%3DMAN&startYear=2007&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&endYear=2019&modelCodeList=TT&makeCodeList=AUDI&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=AUDI&modelCode1=TT&clickType=listing
It's a great looking car that's pretty good to drive (I enjoyed the first generation, the second is supposed to be a lot better), and AWD makes it the ideal year round convertible. Right now, though, with the Z4 and the S4, I'm not too motivated to change cars.
Although, I will say had you bought the TT instead of the 350Z back then, you'd probably still have it because it is far more refined and probably less tiring to drive daily than the Z, and you'd never have gone through the revolving door of cars since then and avoided some pain and suffering too!
I get the sense that a $10K TT back then (what I paid for the Z) would have been a complete POS. If I could go back in time, I'd prob have got a used Camry V6 that I'd still be driving today.
I still contend that peak Golf is either the GTI or R. The TT is one of those cars best enjoyed as a poster on a wall. The cost-benefit analysis just doesn't suss out, which is why the GTI/R are going strong while the TT is becoming a sedan and a crossover (https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/audi-s-tt-offroad-and-tt-sportback-concepts-driven) :lol:
No more!!!!
Quote from: Raza on January 21, 2019, 06:47:32 AM
It's a great looking car that's pretty good to drive (I enjoyed the first generation, the second is supposed to be a lot better), and AWD makes it the ideal year round convertible.
That's pretty much its only use case though. Someone who wants a convertible, but doesn't have a family, lives in a snowy area, and doesn't want to own two cars. But that's a pretty rare situation, and I think the vast majority of people would be better off just having two cars.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 21, 2019, 09:46:36 AM
The problem with something like the TT though is that you get 95% of the driving experience with a GTI but an additional 500% practicality. Besides looks, or the TT I5 in the RS, there's nothing there that isn't available exactly the same somewhere else.
Practicality doesn't really factor into my equation when I'm looking at a two seater or 2+2. Plus, the GTI isn't AWD, so that makes it not really the most appealing choice where I live. And don't discount looks—you look at your car everyday, so liking how it looks is an important part of the ownership experience.
As for available somewhere else—name one reasonably priced (say, under ~$35,000 used or new) AWD convertible with a stick shift.
Quote from: Raza on January 22, 2019, 04:10:58 PM
Practicality doesn't really factor into my equation when I'm looking at a two seater or 2+2. Plus, the GTI isn't AWD, so that makes it not really the most appealing choice where I live. And don't discount looks—you look at your car everyday, so liking how it looks is an important part of the ownership experience.
As for available somewhere else—name one reasonably priced (say, under ~$35,000 used or new) AWD convertible with a stick shift.
Besides the convertible, everything else about the car is available somewhere else in the VWAG line which is my point. There is little appreciable difference in the driving experience between the A/S/RS3, TT/S/RS, or Golf R. Sure, the convertible gives you that 5% that I discounted (more or less depending on how much you value the convertible) but it doesn't really take away from my point.
And not to be too much of a dick, but specifying a stick shift AWD convertible under 35K pretty much qualifies this, a 20 year old 911, and a salvaged Galardo without an engine as the only options that actually exist with that criteria. It's more of you having made up your mind on the TT and then coming up with criteria on why its the only logical choice.
I guess TL;DR unless you really like the TT and the way it looks, which I get it looks pretty sweet, VWAG will already sell you a ton of cars that do the same thing, in the same exact way, for much cheaper.
Yea, if AWD stickshift convertibles were such a great idea there would be more of them available besides the Wrangler :lol:
Not even sure why AWD + convertible is necessary.... top down driving in the rain/snow? :confused: The Z4 is great. One of the last pure non-Miata sports cars. Cherish and keep it
Raza has been "toying" with the idea of a 2nd car since I had my Neon. I've bought literally 25 cars in the same time span.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 22, 2019, 06:57:00 PM
Yea, if AWD stickshift convertibles were such a great idea there would be more of them available besides the Wrangler :lol:
Not even sure why AWD + convertible is necessary.... top down driving in the rain/snow? :confused: The Z4 is great. One of the last pure non-Miata sports cars. Cherish and keep it
Yes. Although I drive top down in the rain all the time, if it's over 50 degrees or so.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 22, 2019, 07:27:58 PM
Raza has been "toying" with the idea of a 2nd car since I had my Neon. I've bought literally 25 cars in the same time span.
I currently have two cars and you flip cars as a hobby. So keep your sassy black lady act to yourself, kid.
Quote from: Raza on January 22, 2019, 09:08:14 PM
Yes. Although I drive top down in the rain all the time, if it's over 50 degrees or so.
Do you wash your interior with a hose and foam cannon?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 23, 2019, 05:36:48 AM
Do you wash your interior with a hose and foam cannon?
Nah. It doesn't get that wet if it's light rain and you keep moving. Most of the water hits the bulkhead, and that's all plastic. It's not like I drive top down in torrential downpours. I mean, I have, but usually only when I get caught out and I'm already moving on the highway.
I've been seeing a decent number of Claritys around Boulder. They look less weird out in the wild.
We were out driving store to store (furniture) and saw a half dozen Miatas today, only one with top down.
(It was 35F). :thumbsup:
Heat up all the way, sock hat, light puffy jacket, and gloves keep me comfortable to about 36F, especially if it's daytime and sunny. 35F and I start to get chilly.
IIRC, I think I drove through a small snow flurry the day that I took my sig pic.
On surface streets, I've taken the top down in temps as low as 28. In the Boxster, which had better wind protection and a rear wind deflector, 20F was easily doable with a scarf and gloves.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 21, 2019, 10:21:01 AM
If you think that ticks all of my requirements, then you and I have very different ideas of "moderately rough roads/trails." :lol:
Yeah, like cobblestones or a dirt or gravel road. Hey, Clarkson in a TTRS beat Hammond in an Ariel off-road buggy in a dirt road race on The Grand Tour.
What about an Xterra? I asked without looking at the requirements again.
Quote from: Raza on January 26, 2019, 08:59:09 AM
Yeah, like cobblestones or a dirt or gravel road. Hey, Clarkson in a TTRS beat Hammond in an Ariel off-road buggy in a dirt road race on The Grand Tour.
What about an Xterra? I asked without looking at the requirements again.
Rougher dirt or gravel road than you're thinking, just not something I'd need a Wrangler for 4Runner for. The TT's ground clearance would be a killer.
The Xterra is an interesting thought because I kind of wish I had gotten one instead of the Explorer - I just found the Explorer first.
However, the general idea is that, if I were to downsize to one car, I'd either keep the Explorer or get something newer and a bit more car-like (e.g. Crosstrek, Forester). Xterras are still pretty trucky. If I were able to do an even trade for an MT Xterra, I'd probably do it, but I think they've held onto their value a bit better, at least in my area where people actually use off road ability.
Hmm, Explorers in my area are listed a bit higher than I was expecting, though those are mostly dealer listings. I'd probably still have to put in a grand or two to make up the difference, especially factoring in an extra set of wheels/tires for winter.
I might have to add "Keep S2000, swap Explorer for Xterra" as an option. It's an unlikely option, but something to ponder, which is really the point of this thread at this stage.
Small cars ride better on rough dirt roads than trucks. Get a 1997 Cavalier and hit any dirt road at 60+ MPH. Smooth AF.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 26, 2019, 10:39:01 AM
Small cars ride better on rough dirt roads than trucks. Get a 1997 Cavalier and hit any dirt road at 60+ MPH. Smooth AF.
Unfortunately, my life isn't a Top Gear road trip where I have hours to rebuild my car with the help of a support team when it inevitably bottoms out and/or rattles something loose.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 26, 2019, 11:05:08 AM
Unfortunately, my life isn't a Top Gear road trip where I have hours to rebuild my car with the help of a support team when it inevitably bottoms out and/or rattles something loose.
I didn't say the Cavalier would last long, just that it would ride better. :lol:
You could always equip it with skid plates, route the fuel/brake lines inside the cabin, and get giant rally flaps.
'97 Cavalier is analagous to a newer Subaroo in this case.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 25, 2019, 10:15:21 PM
Heat up all the way, sock hat, light puffy jacket, and gloves keep me comfortable to about 36F, especially if it's daytime and sunny. 35F and I start to get chilly.
IIRC, I think I drove through a small snow flurry the day that I took my sig pic.
Quote from: Raza on January 26, 2019, 08:16:31 AM
On surface streets, I've taken the top down in temps as low as 28. In the Boxster, which had better wind protection and a rear wind deflector, 20F was easily doable with a scarf and gloves.
In the Army we have to go in for Physical Training at 0630hrs. Uniform varies depending on weather, you learn quick to have whatever anyway. Expecting just shorts and t-shirt but then they mandate long-sleeve t-shirt or jacket or pants or hat or gloves or various combinations...
Anyway I used to get wild looks at the ID check and then at the parking lot pulling in the NA with top down, jacket hat & gloves on. So beautiful in the mornings though!!!
Ahhhh I long for those days again.
I went mountain biking this morning in shorts and a T-shirt, and it was 30-something degrees. The other bikers were wearing their fancy full body spandex and masks, and the hikers were wearing parkas and mittens. Therefore, my bike is a Miata.
Went by the Subaru dealership today. Crosstrek was nice except cargo area is pretty dang small. I could get by with it since I rarely need cargo space and passenger space at the same time, but it'd be nice to have more. It's really a bummer that they stopped putting the manual in the Forester. I could also just get a roof box.
Kinda weird that it has a car-like seating position, but at CUV height, though I guess it's better than a CUV-like seating position at CUV height.
Unfortunately, they didn't have any manuals in stock, so I didn't drive it.
Honda dealership is right next door, so I swung by and checked out a Clarity. Nice car. I took it for a really short test drive, and the battery was pretty low so I got to use both EV and hybrid modes. It's weird to hear a gas engine at a static RPM while you're accelerating. Even the CVTs I've driven before change RPM some.
Rags has a Crosstrek which has seen some legitimate offroad adventures.
Quote from: Laconian on January 26, 2019, 09:43:29 PM
Rags has a Crosstrek which has seen some legitimate offroad adventures.
Yeah I've seen a couple of pictures on the BookFace.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 26, 2019, 10:13:09 AM
Hmm, Explorers in my area are listed a bit higher than I was expecting, though those are mostly dealer listings. I'd probably still have to put in a grand or two to make up the difference, especially factoring in an extra set of wheels/tires for winter.
I might have to add "Keep S2000, swap Explorer for Xterra" as an option. It's an unlikely option, but something to ponder, which is really the point of this thread at this stage.
Do that.
Is your S2000 an AP2 with a glass rear window and traction control? If so, I'd consider buying it to replace the Z4 next year.
Quote from: Raza on January 26, 2019, 10:14:36 PM
Do that.
Is your S2000 an AP2 with a glass rear window and traction control? If so, I'd consider buying it to replace the Z4 next year.
Yup, 2008 black on black. Not a CR. I'll have to start a bidding war between you, my dad's neighbor, and one of my friends. :lol:
I can also apparently get a 2009ish Forester for around the same price.
The basic problem is that the Explorer kinda sucks to drive from Boulder to my dad's condo in the mountains. Both a two-line twisty state road and a four lane interstate that's fairly steep the whole way, going up to 11-12k feet depending on the route I take. Forester/Crosstrek would solve the twisty road problem better and be more efficient, but Xterra would solve the steep road problem better and be more capable off-road (not that I'd need it very much).
Fortunately, there's a Subaru dealership pretty close to some of the steepest and highest elevation parts of the drive. I already have a test drive route in mind that incorporates both twisty two lane road and steep interstate, going both uphill and downhill on each.
Would the Xterra do twisty roads better? Not sure about that..
Quote from: Laconian on January 27, 2019, 12:28:31 AM
Would the Xterra do twisty roads better? Not sure about that..
Sorta. IIRC, the base suspension was slightly stiffer than the Explorer, but the Offroad and Pro-4x had softer suspension, so cornering depends on the trim. Center of gravity is about the same, maybe slightly higher. It does have a solid rear axle.
But more importantly, it's lighter and feels a lot peppier, especially with the MT, so even if didn't corner any better, between the corners would be better. I was legitimately surprised at how fun it was.
A lot of my issue with the Explorer is that I don't how the AT behaves on mountain roads. I think they programmed it to hold higher gears for fuel economy, so it's really lazy about kicking down when I need it to.
But also you're not wrong. I was really trying to say that both the Xterra and Subarus have advantages over the Explorer, just for very different reasons.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 27, 2019, 12:24:57 AM
Yup, 2008 black on black. Not a CR. I'll have to start a bidding war between you, my dad's neighbor, and one of my friends. :lol:
I can also apparently get a 2009ish Forester for around the same price.
The basic problem is that the Explorer kinda sucks to drive from Boulder to my dad's condo in the mountains. Both a two-line twisty state road and a four lane interstate that's fairly steep the whole way, going up to 11-12k feet depending on the route I take. Forester/Crosstrek would solve the twisty road problem better and be more efficient, but Xterra would solve the steep road problem better and be more capable off-road (not that I'd need it very much).
Fortunately, there's a Subaru dealership pretty close to some of the steepest and highest elevation parts of the drive. I already have a test drive route in mind that incorporates both twisty two lane road and steep interstate, going both uphill and downhill on each.
Worth a try. Having recently driven a massive Nissan Armada on some fast, somewhat curvy roads, I can attest that modern SUVs, though sometimes worrying, are much more capable than older SUVs used to be. Even that monstrosity, which actually made me feel a little uncomfortable on some of those Napa roads (especially at night and on two lane country roads that had like 60-65mph speed limits--no light pollution out there, so you can really only see what's in your headlights), felt generally okay and decent to drive. I've been in sedans from 15 years ago that weren't as competent on the road. So modernizing the Explorer will probably reap benefits all around. And if you don't need the space to haul all your kids and their hockey equipment, a Forester might be a great choice.
Quote from: Raza on January 26, 2019, 10:14:36 PM
Do that.
Is your S2000 an AP2 with a glass rear window and traction control? If so, I'd consider buying it to replace the Z4 next year.
Over a TT????!?!???
You need something with a turbo. Try a late model Ford Escape Ecoboost.
Cant believe I'm saying this but if that's an option he should look at a Kia Sportage SX
Faster, better equipped, possibly more fuel efficient which is saying something
Jeep Compass Rallaye!!!
(http://www-5.jeep.com/carryover/image/compass/rallye/compass_rallye_main.jpg)
limited availability!!!!!!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 27, 2019, 12:34:37 PM
Cant believe I'm saying this but if that's an option he should look at a Kia Sportage SX
Faster, better equipped, possibly more fuel efficient which is saying something
A size class above, much worse AWD, and do Kias still have that bizarre programming in their electric steering?
I got it. Range Rover Sport.
Nah I'm probably just gonna get a Crosstrek. Or not. Who knows? I certainly do not.
Jesus, have you driven one? Nice package/size/looks/etc., but criminally gutless. At altitude I think it would borderline unusable (esp. on the mountain passes).
Quote from: GoCougs on January 27, 2019, 07:31:47 PM
Jesus, have you driven one? Nice package/size/looks/etc., but criminally gutless. At altitude I think it would borderline unusable (esp. on the mountain passes).
No. There's a dealership near Silverthorne near high elevation highway and 2-lane passes that I'm gonna test drive at before I actually make a decision.
But they're also all over the place in CO. They're clearly capable of making it.
Meh, Germans drive the Autobahn with gutless little tin cans. There are hardly ever any opportunities many people in the US have to use 200hp+. You do have to be aware of the lower power and drive accordingly.
Why Crosstrak when you can WRX? For what, 0.6" of ground clearance? I made that up, but whatver.
It really bugs me how gutless cars like the Crosstrek are. So much potential squandered.
Okay, so it's 8.7" vs 4.9" of ground clearance. I'm sure there is a lift kit for WRX.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 27, 2019, 08:27:12 PM
It really bugs me how gutless cars like the Crosstrek are. So much potential squandered.
The dimensions are likely super close to the WRX. While it's survivable, no reason they can't terbow.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 27, 2019, 09:56:20 PM
The dimensions are likely super close to the WRX.
They're both Imprezas, even though Subaru kinda pretends they aren't anymore.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 27, 2019, 09:56:20 PM
While it's survivable, no reason they can't terbow.
Engine in the Crosstrek was designed to be lightweight so it's not overbuilt enough to handle any turbo that's worth the fuss, so they can't just slap a turbo on that same engine and call it a day.
But they could put the WRX engine in the Crosstrek. Or even just the extra 30 hp from the 2.5 in the Forester would be awesome.
Are y'all not realizing that the cross trek is an Impreza hatchback with a lift kit?
Quote from: 2o6 on January 27, 2019, 10:35:02 PM
Are y'all not realizing that the cross trek is an Impreza hatchback with a lift kit?
Hey now, don't forget about the extra plastic and bigger tires.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 27, 2019, 10:44:58 PM
Hey now, don't forget about the extra plastic and bigger tires.
I had a CVT rental Impreza a few weeks ago, aside from the overall slowness, and irritating alignment, it was a good car.
Quote from: Laconian on January 27, 2019, 12:56:51 PM
A size class above, much worse AWD, and do Kias still have that bizarre programming in their electric steering?
1 & 2 are fair points, but he was looking at a Clarity & Volt IIRC so AWD can't be that big of a deal
I know what you mean about the steering... I returned a Soul rental the same day partially because of it... but the steering on my Optima is really good.
New SX AWDs are out of his price range anyway.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 27, 2019, 10:35:02 PM
Are y'all not realizing that the cross trek is an Impreza hatchback with a lift kit?
Yeah, just put Crosstrek struts on a WRX, or WRX drivetrain in Crosstrek. EZ?
Just get a 4Runner and be done with it.
Quote from: MrH on January 28, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
Just get a 4Runner and be done with it.
One of the last real SUVs.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 28, 2019, 05:05:45 AM
1 & 2 are fair points, but he was looking at a Clarity & Volt IIRC so AWD can't be that big of a deal
Realistically, if I got either of those cars, I think I'd have to keep the Explorer.
AWD and moderate off-road ability are top priority for downsizing to a single car. Hence the focus on Subarus.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 28, 2019, 07:09:58 AM
Yeah, just put Crosstrek struts on a WRX, or WRX drivetrain in Crosstrek. EZ?
Quote from: MrH on January 28, 2019, 08:07:24 AM
Just get a 4Runner and be done with it.
How about you guys both send me checks to make up the price differences, and I will do the suggestion of whoever's check clears first.
Also, while 4Runners are desirable for many reasons, I don't know that it would solve any of the things that I dislike about the Explorer. Plus we've gotta be getting close to a new generation at this point.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 28, 2019, 08:20:56 AM
Realistically, if I got either of those cars, I think I'd have to keep the Explorer.
AWD and moderate off-road ability are top priority for downsizing to a single car. Hence the focus on Subarus.
How about you guys both send me checks to make up the price differences, and I will do the suggestion of whoever's check clears first.
Also, while 4Runners are desirable for many reasons, I don't know that it would solve any of the things that I dislike about the Explorer. Plus we've gotta be getting close to a new generation at this point.
I think 2020 is the plan for it.
If you think the 4Runner won't drive better than the Explorer and doesn't solve the issues, than an Xterra definitely won't fix the problems.
I'd pretty much be exclusively looking at turbos at your elevation. CX-5 Turbo?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 28, 2019, 08:20:56 AM
Realistically, if I got either of those cars, I think I'd have to keep the Explorer.
AWD and moderate off-road ability are top priority for downsizing to a single car. Hence the focus on Subarus.
How about you guys both send me checks to make up the price differences, and I will do the suggestion of whoever's check clears first.
Also, while 4Runners are desirable for many reasons, I don't know that it would solve any of the things that I dislike about the Explorer. Plus we've gotta be getting close to a new generation at this point.
I don't have checks.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 28, 2019, 08:20:56 AM
Realistically, if I got either of those cars, I think I'd have to keep the Explorer.
AWD and moderate off-road ability are top priority for downsizing to a single car. Hence the focus on Subarus.
How about you guys both send me checks to make up the price differences, and I will do the suggestion of whoever's check clears first.
Also, while 4Runners are desirable for many reasons, I don't know that it would solve any of the things that I dislike about the Explorer. Plus we've gotta be getting close to a new generation at this point.
I know it's not in your current budget, but if you are considering a new off-roader at some point, it might be fun to check out the new Bronco; when it's available.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 27, 2019, 07:35:43 PM
No. There's a dealership near Silverthorne near high elevation highway and 2-lane passes that I'm gonna test drive at before I actually make a decision.
But they're also all over the place in CO. They're clearly capable of making it.
Well, yes, I was exaggerating, but for an enthusiast, I find it (and most all Subarus) maddening for their chronic, intentional lack of power.
I'm sorta in this market, and choices are slim. The Jetta wagon Alltrack thingy gets good reviews, is turbo, and has M/T option. VW reliability risk though. A slightly used A4 Allroad is in the ballpark too (but again, ze German reliability risk).
If I lived in Colorado my shortlist would be GT-R or 911 Turbo.
I'm sure you can find a liftkit for either.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 27, 2019, 10:35:02 PM
Are y'all not realizing that the cross trek is an Impreza hatchback with a lift kit?
Seems the body is just a tiny bit taller?
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a CRD Jeep Liberty. Wait, what is the original objective here?
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 28, 2019, 10:44:05 AM
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned a CRD Jeep Liberty. Wait, what is the original objective here?
No one should ever buy a Jeep that's not a Wrangler, classic Cherokee, or pre-1993. And even then, you probably shouldn't get one.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 28, 2019, 10:31:02 AM
Seems the body is just a tiny bit taller?
The body stampings between the car are 100% the same. The interior is the same. The everything is the same, except some tacked on plastic cladding.
Only mechanical differences are 6-speed MT in the Crosstrek instead of 5-speed, and apparently a beefier rear diff which is why the Crosstrek is rated to tow a little bit and the Impreza isn't.
I think the roof rails are standard on the Crosstrek, but optional on the Impreza, so maybe that's why Will thinks it looks taller (other than the added ground clearance, which makes up the bulk of the difference).
It also has cooler looking rims, imo. And awesome colors.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 28, 2019, 02:29:47 PM
The body stampings between the car are 100% the same. The interior is the same. The everything is the same, except some tacked on plastic cladding.
Weird I totally thought they added a couple inches of height for more interior space.
No wonder people are buying them up- same car as Impreza that's been out forever but "off-roadier" (cooler, manlier, whatever). I iz disappointed.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 28, 2019, 03:31:58 PM
Weird I totally thought they added a couple inches of height for more interior space.
No wonder people are buying them up- same car as Impreza that's been out forever but "off-roadier" (cooler, manlier, whatever). I iz disappointed.
It's basically just what the Outback Sport used to be, but probably easier to market with it's own name.
Outback Sport: it's an Impreza wagon with a hood scoop to nowhere.
The latest Motor Trend issue compared the Kona, Kicks, and Ecosport. Kona wins by a mile. Buy a Kona. It's better than a Crosstrek.
The Kona is ok, I drove one a few weeks ago. One with all the goodies is kind of expensive.
Quote from: Laconian on January 28, 2019, 05:27:35 PM
Outback Sport: it's an Impreza wagon with a hood scoop to nowhere.
Ours doesn't have a hoodscoop. Wife bought it on impulse though. She said she wanted manual but salesguy totally steered her into this slushiemobile. Maybe they'd had a hard time unloading it?...
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on January 28, 2019, 07:27:03 PM
Ours doesn't have a hoodscoop. Wife bought it on impulse though. She said she wanted manual but salesguy totally steered her into this slushiemobile. Maybe they'd had a hard time unloading it?...
AT probably cost more money. Sales guy wanted to make more money.
I mostly ask sales people questions I already know the answer to. Lets me know the degree to which they are full of shit.
Quote from: Laconian on January 28, 2019, 05:27:35 PM
Outback Sport: it's an Impreza wagon with a hood scoop to nowhere.
To be fair, my ice cream scoop doesn't go anywhere either.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 28, 2019, 07:30:43 PM
AT probably cost more money. Sales guy wanted to make more money.
Good point- it also has extra subwoofer (not terrible but OEM would be way more bang for buck), rear spoiler, fancy seat stitching, rubber mat in cargo area, and a few other kibbles which push price up.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 28, 2019, 09:25:42 AM
Well, yes, I was exaggerating, but for an enthusiast, I find it (and most all Subarus) maddening for their chronic, intentional lack of power.
I'm sorta in this market, and choices are slim. The Jetta wagon Alltrack thingy gets good reviews, is turbo, and has M/T option. VW reliability risk though. A slightly used A4 Allroad is in the ballpark too (but again, ze German reliability risk).
Yeah, it's definitely not ideal. If I get anything new this year, practicality, affordability, and capability take priority over any sort of sportiness, though I might just wait longer until I can afford something at least a little better (3.6 Outback or Rav-4 Adventure probably).
Holy hell, I thought you guys were exaggerating at least a little bit talking about how slow the Crosstrek is. :lol: I haven't driven it on steep roads or at altitude yet, but it was pretty bad just on a stretch of flat highway. I drove both a CVT and a 6-speed and they really didn't feel much different. If I actually got one, I might go for the CVT just to get EyeSight.
So the Crosstrek isn't completely out of the question, but right now I think I'm gonna keep Explorer and see how my job situations shakes out over the next few months. Maybe I'll consider replacing the S2000 with a WRX. It'd at least get a lot more winter use.
When you're used to Exploder TORQ, a Crosstrek CVT is going to be like mole asses. I can help with that. You can borrow the Ranger for 1 month, unlimited mileage, for the low low price of $2999.95.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on February 04, 2019, 05:53:34 PM
When you're used to Exploder TORQ, a Crosstrek CVT is going to be like mole asses. I can help with that. You can borrow the Ranger for 1 month, unlimited mileage, for the low low price of $2999.95.
I've driven enough crappy rentals that I thought I knew what slow was. Nope.
I had a Chevy Venture van for my first job in NYC. Man that thing was perfect for the city. Copious torq
Lol. My wife drove Impreza almost exclusively for 8 years. When we got Odyssey (2015) she was "WOW SO MUCH POWER" and still talks about it lol.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 04, 2019, 06:14:22 PM
I've driven enough crappy rentals that I thought I knew what slow was. Nope.
You get acclimated to your daily driver's power really quick too. Everything felt fast when I was driving the 4Runner. Now everything feels so slow.
Everything that isn't a pickup or an older BOF SUV feels like racecar compared to Taco.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 05, 2019, 08:08:45 AM
Everything that isn't a pickup or an older BOF SUV feels like racecar compared to Taco.
True. Even Dakota feels like race truck compared to Ranger/GMC. Rack n pinion sterring.
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 05, 2019, 08:08:45 AM
Everything that isn't a pickup or an older BOF SUV feels like racecar compared to Taco.
Not a Crosstrek. At least not in a straight line.
I used to think my 4 cylinder Mazda6 was decently zippy. After driving the El Camino daily for a couple of years, anything with less than ~250 hp feels dog slow. Especially on the freeway.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 05, 2019, 09:32:59 AM
I used to think my 4 cylinder Mazda6 was decently zippy. After driving the El Camino daily for a couple of years, anything with less than ~250 hp feels dog slow. Especially on the freeway.
Torque is king. I remember medium/big blocks of the '60s cruising up and down hills never slowing an iota without having to nudge the gas pedal or shifting down. These little putt-putt motors have the transmission tripping through gears even on the smallest incline. Of course, back then, we were getting about 12 mpg.
I drive an S2000. I don't mind high revs. The Crosstrek is slow even at higher revs.
Just go test drive an Accord 2.0t.
Quote from: MrH on February 05, 2019, 10:00:36 AM
Just go test drive an Accord 2.0t.
No?
I'd get a Clarity before an Accord.
Quote from: FoMoJo on February 05, 2019, 09:47:16 AM
Torque is king. I remember medium/big blocks of the '60s cruising up and down hills never slowing an iota without having to nudge the gas pedal or shifting down. These little putt-putt motors have the transmission tripping through gears even on the smallest incline. Of course, back then, we were getting about 12 mpg.
Especially when you don't have overdrive, so you're cruising at 3000-3300 rpm on the highway making GOBS of torque.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
No?
I'd get a Clarity before an Accord.
What about a Crosstour?
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
No?
I'd get a Clarity before an Accord.
Why? Financially it's a wash, especially if you go with the 1.5T. That's even factoring in the federal rebate.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 05, 2019, 10:13:44 AM
What about a Crosstour?
Ew why would anyone want one of those?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on February 05, 2019, 10:25:11 AM
Why? Financially it's a wash, especially if you go with the 1.5T. That's even factoring in the federal rebate.
Because if I'm gonna get a 2WD mid-size sedan, I'd rather get the PHEV.
Because we have a whole thread about how the 1.5T leaks fuel into the oil.
Because CO has another $5k incentive on top of the federal incentive.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 08:54:38 AM
Not a Crosstrek. At least not in a straight line.
Perhaps true. But a Crosstrek still feels tight and nimble compared to Taco, even in a straight line. :lol:
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 10:25:31 AM
Ew why would anyone want one of those?
You can get a V6 EX-L and it's basically a Crosstrek with some balls.
They're hideous though, and ancient.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on February 05, 2019, 10:39:45 AM
You can get a V6 EX-L and it's basically a Crosstrek with some balls.
Except they have significantly less ground clearance, weigh literally 1000 lbs more, don't exist with under 60k miles, and are hideously ugly.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 10:47:42 AM
Except they have significantly less ground clearance, weigh literally 1000 lbs more, don't exist with under 60k miles, and are hideously ugly.
Better clearance than a Clarity!
I don't disagree about the ugly. But again, compared to a Clarity...
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 10:10:04 AM
No?
I'd get a Clarity before an Accord.
Why? The Accord is a much better driving, better appointed car. The gas mileage difference is really minor.
Literally the only reasons I've considered the Clarity and Volt is because I can get $12.5k back from tax incentives and I could do 100% of my local driving on electric-only. Realistically, if I were to get either of those cars, I'd keep the Explorer. Which means I probably won't get either of those cars.
If I downsize to one car, moderate off-road ability (i.e. not truck/4Runner/Wrangler territory but rougher than well-graded gravel roads) is pretty high on the priority list.
Quote from: MrH on February 05, 2019, 11:01:06 AM
Why? The Accord is a much better driving, better appointed car. The gas mileage difference is really minor.
Not on all electric range. :huh:
It's cheaper with incentives. It produces fewer emissions.
I drive an 11 year old car and a 13 year old car. Cheapo econoboxes are better appointed than what I'm used to. Basically as long as it has Android Auto and radar cruise control, I don't care about anything else.
If I'm gonna spend upper 20s on a normal ICE sedan, I'd just get a WRX.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on February 05, 2019, 11:12:51 AM
/endthread
Yeah, but I don't want to spend upper 20s on a normal ICE sedan. :lol:
Then spend $60k on a used GT-R and a liftkit. :rockon:
Bronco.
https://terrafugia.com
:hmm:
There is a small airport nearby. I don't think there's one near my dad's place in the mountains though.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 05, 2019, 05:42:36 PM
:hmm:
There is a small airport nearby. I don't think there's one near my dad's place in the mountains though.
You don't need airports. You just need an open road, and some stealth technology.
Current plan that will probably change by tomorrow:
- Sell S2000
- Wait until I'm more rich.
- Either:
- Sell Explorer and get either Rav4 Adventure or whatever faster version of the Outback exists
- Keep Explorer and Go GreenTM with Clarity
- Keep Explorer and Go FunTM with WRX
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 09, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
Current plan that will probably change by tomorrow:
- Sell S2000
- Wait until I'm more rich.
- Either:
- Sell Explorer and get either Rav4 Adventure or whatever faster version of the Outback exists
- Keep Explorer and Go GreenTM with Clarity
- Keep Explorer and Go FunTM with WRX
Alternate plan:
1. Keep S2000
2. Rob bank and get rich now
3. Buy Tesla for your green and fun itches and Subaru for your adventure itch
Quote from: thewizard16 on February 09, 2019, 12:29:03 PM
Alternate plan:
1. Keep S2000
2. Rob bank and get rich now
3. Buy Tesla for your green and fun itches and Subaru for your adventure itch
Well if bank robbery is on the table, I'd probably just go ahead and get a Rivian.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 09, 2019, 12:57:22 PM
Well if bank robbery is on the table, I'd probably just go ahead and get a Rivian.
Well there you go then. Just make sure not to leave any witnesses behind.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on February 09, 2019, 11:54:16 AM
Current plan that will probably change by tomorrow:
- Sell S2000
- Wait until I'm more rich.
- Either:
- Sell Explorer and get either Rav4 Adventure or whatever faster version of the Outback exists
- Keep Explorer and Go GreenTM with Clarity
- Keep Explorer and Go FunTM with WRX
Well, it's been over a week and this is still makes the most sense for now. I guess I should start getting the S2000 prepped to hit the market. :cry:
I should keep Explorer and get a Civic Si. Snow tires + LSD will be good enough for most of winter. Cheaper and way more fuel efficient than WRX. I am kinda Honda fanboy. They even brought the volume knob back for 2019!
Now I just gotta do steps 1 and 2.
Do you take the Explorer places that a WRX can't go? Or put things in it that wouldn't fit in a WRX hatch?
Quote from: Rich on March 21, 2019, 11:12:35 PM
Do you take the Explorer places that a WRX can't go?
Yes. Forest service roads and whatnot. Something with decent clearance (at minimum, a taller CUV ala Outback) is definitely priority over anything sporty. There's still a small chance I'll just say fuck it to sporty cars altogether and get a 4Runner.
I wish they'd just make a Crosstrek XT or bring back the Forester XT but I don't see it happening.
I also don't strictly need the space of the Explorer, but it does come in handy. Moving stuff, plenty of room for a full load of friends, I can sleep in the back to camp, etc.
Crosstrek PHEV out of budget? Can't remember if we discussed
Alright, here's a thought. I pretty much would require a turbo engine at that altitude. I was shocked when I drove a naturally aspirated car and how slow it felt.
The 2020 Legacy is going to offer a 2.4 liter turbo with 260 hp. CVT only unfortunately, but they're saying it's almost a 19 gallon fuel tank and 32 mpg on the highway. 600 miles per tank is crazy.
Giant 11" tablet in the middle. Looks pretty good. This is inevitably going to be an Outback so you'll get the added ground clearance.
What I'd probably do? Sell the S2000. Wait for the Outback to come out. When it does, sell the Explorer, get a new turbo Outback. Buy a cheap NA or NB miata if you want a small convertible for the summer.
Bronco.
Sell the Explorer, keep the S2000.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 22, 2019, 05:00:45 AM
Crosstrek PHEV out of budget? Can't remember if we discussed
Not available in CO - only the states that follow CA emissions laws.
Quote from: MrH on March 22, 2019, 08:15:12 AM
Alright, here's a thought. I pretty much would require a turbo engine at that altitude. I was shocked when I drove a naturally aspirated car and how slow it felt.
The 2020 Legacy is going to offer a 2.4 liter turbo with 260 hp. CVT only unfortunately, but they're saying it's almost a 19 gallon fuel tank and 32 mpg on the highway. 600 miles per tank is crazy.
Giant 11" tablet in the middle. Looks pretty good. This is inevitably going to be an Outback so you'll get the added ground clearance.
What I'd probably do? Sell the S2000. Wait for the Outback to come out. When it does, sell the Explorer, get a new turbo Outback. Buy a cheap NA or NB miata if you want a small convertible for the summer.
This is a possibility, and fits into the temporary Explorer-only plan.
But at least at this specific moment, if I'm going to bother with two cars, I'd rather have the fun car be drivable year round and have the SUV be my 2nd car. Basically I want something that's more fun to drive to my dad's mountain condo. The roads are plowed well enough through most of the winter that clearance isn't really necessary very often at all. My dad does just fine in his A4.
The Outback (or Forester or Crosstrek) is more likely as a compromise if I decide to stick with one car long term. I've even considered selling both cars now and getting a lightly-to-moderately used 3.6 Outback or Forester XT as a more budget friendly option.
Meh.
I used to try and do the one car that's both fun and drivable year round. You end up getting such a compromise on both that I wasn't fulfilled on either front. A turbo outback sounds perfect for you. Seems kind of silly to have two vehicles with snow tires, one just for when you need slightly more ground clearance. Just get an outback to drive year round, and then a fun car for when it's nice out.
If you get a Civic Si, it's not like it's going to be fun when you're driving through garbage weather.
Lifted Subie.
Quote from: MrH on March 22, 2019, 09:31:38 AM
Meh.
I used to try and do the one car that's both fun and drivable year round. You end up getting such a compromise on both that I wasn't fulfilled on either front. A turbo outback sounds perfect for you. Seems kind of silly to have two vehicles with snow tires, one just for when you need slightly more ground clearance. Just get an outback to drive year round, and then a fun car for when it's nice out.
If you get a Civic Si, it's not like it's going to be fun when you're driving through garbage weather.
If I'm gonna own a dedicated summer car, the S2000 is that car.
The hard requirement for a higher clearance vehicle is for accessing trail heads in the summer, not for heavy snow. And there are plenty of instances in the winter where I drive up to the mountains on dry roads, but I still won't take the S2000 because it could snow while I'm up there, and there's no room for snowboard & gear. Plus even in garbage weather, the lighter weight and lower CoG of a WRX or Si will be a much better driving experience than the Explorer or even an Outback.
Even in the summer, I don't drive the S2000 hard all that often. I admittedly haven't actually driven either yet, but I think a WRX or Si would be an OK compromise.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on March 22, 2019, 08:57:01 AM
Not available in CO - only the states that follow CA emissions laws.
Get it shipped?
Quote from: Laconian on March 23, 2019, 12:31:01 PM
Get it shipped?
I thought about it before I went and looked at a base model, but they're smaller than I'd like, the shipping makes it more expensive, range isn't great, and the PHEV loses even more trunk space to the battery packs.
I guess it's not totally out the question, but there are a few things I'd have to research beforehand to make sure it's even possible: make sure I could take delivery in CO without it being previously registered for the CO tax credit, make sure I could get it serviced locally, and make sure that I could charge it in my garage since it's in a separate building that's managed by the HOA (which would be relevant to any PHEV). I think all of these things are doable, but just extra layers of stuff that would be required to own a vehicle that I'm not super excited about anyway. Plus, after not liking the base model very much, I'd want to test drive it beforehand.
If it were a Forester PHEV with like twice the EV-only range, it'd be a more intriguing proposition.
Well, I just spent a bunch of money fixing stuff on Explorer, so I guess I'm gonna keep it for awhile.
On a related note, getting the sway bar links replaced greatly improved how the thing drives.
haha I've never replaced suspension on my beaters (my average car is 7-9yrs old when I buy it).. I should do that.
Were the end links making clunking noises or just worn in general?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on June 06, 2019, 04:24:31 AM
Were the end links making clunking noises or just worn in general?
They were clunking a little over bigger bumps if I hit them too hard. I didn't realize that's what that was, or else I'd have probably gotten them replaced earlier. I haven't taken it on any twisty roads yet, but I'm pretty surprised at how big of a difference it makes during cornering even at normal intersections and whatnot.
I also got a free ball joint out of the deal. The left front lower ball joint needed replacing and the boot was torn on the right front lower ball joint, but I was gonna hold off on replacing the right one because this trip to the mechanic was already $Texas. But apparently the tech misread the paper work and started on both. By the time someone caught the mistake, he was too far into the job and they just didn't charge me at all for the right side.
Also new pads/rotors all around and new front diff/rear diff/transfer case fluids.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on June 06, 2019, 10:30:41 AM
They were clunking a little over bigger bumps if I hit them too hard. I didn't realize that's what that was, or else I'd have probably gotten them replaced earlier. I haven't taken it on any twisty roads yet, but I'm pretty surprised at how big of a difference it makes during cornering even at normal intersections and whatnot.
I also got a free ball joint out of the deal. The left front lower ball joint needed replacing and the boot was torn on the right front lower ball joint, but I was gonna hold off on replacing the right one because this trip to the mechanic was already $Texas. But apparently the tech misread the paper work and started on both. By the time someone caught the mistake, he was too far into the job and they just didn't charge me at all for the right side.
Also new pads/rotors all around and new front diff/rear diff/transfer case fluids.
Was the link completely detached or just loose?
Quote from: FoMoJo on June 06, 2019, 10:34:05 AM
Was the link completely detached or just loose?
They did not provide details (and I didn't ask for the old parts back), but I think the joints on either end of the links were worn, so there was just a lot of play.
If it was affecting handling at least one side was completely gone. Glad you found a relatively cheap fix
Wow, KBB thinks that my S2000 is worth $17-19k at trade in, even with only "Good" condition, which my car definitely qualifies as. "Very good" condition bumps it another $2k (not sure if my car would qualify as "very good" or not).
Private party estimate is only about $1k higher. Probably not worth the extra hassle.
(IF I were to sell it, of course. Which probably won't happen.)