I hate dealerships

[FoMoJo]

I suck at negotiating price and try never to do that at the dealership but instead at home on the phone and then get an email confirmation with summary price including all fees (like vin etching all windows) and taxes.

I wish the Saturn/Scion way of nonnegotiable pricing took off.  I think Tesla does it.

I'm surprised.  I have negotiated in the past by feigning disinterest and standing up to leave, but my wife takes it to a whole new level.  She seems to see bargaining as a necessary function of each purchase from sarees to cars.

Two particular situations stand out.  One, when we traded our '86 Tempo in for a '93 Aerostar.  The salesman was a young 2nd generation South Asian guy who seemed quite acquainted with the art of bargaining and after haggling for a long time, several times getting up to leave, and down to the last few dollars, now with his 'manager' involved, finally they gave in to what seemed to me, a very good price. When the Aerostar was prepped, I went back to drop off the Tempo and pick up the Aerostar realizing that there wasn't much left in the gas tank.  A week or so later, I had to drop back in to the dealership for some reason and the young salesman came up to me with a smarmy grin on his face and said, "I went to move your old car and it ran out of gas, did your wife siphon the tank?"  I couldn't help but laugh. 

The other time was recently when we leased our Discovery.  A very polite and cultured salesman well into middle age showed us several vehicles, I was initially interested in the F-Pace, but we settled for a new Discovery that was on the lot.  The negotiations began.  He does a bunch of calculations and comes up with a monthly price which, to me, sounds reasonable.  My wife automatically reduces it by a few hundred dollars and he actually looked startled.  By the time the haggling was over, the guy was stuttering.  It's always entertaining to me how brazen she can be when striking a deal.

[Payman]

I'm surprised.  I have negotiated in the past by feigning disinterest and standing up to leave, but my wife takes it to a whole new level.  She seems to see bargaining as a necessary function of each purchase from sarees to cars.

Two particular situations stand out.  One, when we traded our '86 Tempo in for a '93 Aerostar.  The salesman was a young 2nd generation South Asian guy who seemed quite acquainted with the art of bargaining and after haggling for a long time, several times getting up to leave, and down to the last few dollars, now with his 'manager' involved, finally they gave in to what seemed to me, a very good price. When the Aerostar was prepped, I went back to drop off the Tempo and pick up the Aerostar realizing that there wasn't much left in the gas tank.  A week or so later, I had to drop back in to the dealership for some reason and the young salesman came up to me with a smarmy grin on his face and said, "I went to move your old car and it ran out of gas, did your wife siphon the tank?"  I couldn't help but laugh. 

The other time was recently when we leased our Discovery.  A very polite and cultured salesman well into middle age showed us several vehicles, I was initially interested in the F-Pace, but we settled for a new Discovery that was on the lot.  The negotiations began.  He does a bunch of calculations and comes up with a monthly price which, to me, sounds reasonable.  My wife automatically reduces it by a few hundred dollars and he actually looked startled.  By the time the haggling was over, the guy was stuttering.  It's always entertaining to me how brazen she can be when striking a deal.

I do not bring my wife to negotiate anything. I even avoid doing our taxes together. She'll strike up a conversation about the most inane and off-topic bullshit while I'm gritting my teeth and fidgeting to get it done and get the fuck out.

[2o6]

I have literally never had these issues at any dealer. Buying my Sonic was pretty painless, save for the one lady who wanted me to shoot free throws.



Maybe because I've worked at dealers, I generally know what I'm getting into??

[Payman]

save for the one lady who wanted me to shoot free throws.

[GoCougs]

The retail experience most everywhere is miserable.

[giant_mtb]

The retail experience most everywhere is miserable.

So true.  At least with more local, Mom & Pop type places, they're not constantly badgering you to become a "member" or use their credit card and all that bullshit.  But even those places are starting to do that shit.  Like when my (now-ex) gf wanted to buy a basic hardtail Giant from the LBS for like $550, they were pestering her about opening a line of credit to pay for it.  And we're just like........cash.  Do you not want cash?  We have cash.  It's called money.  Who the fuck is buying a $550 bike via a credit line.

[Payman]

Grrr yeah even Walmart...

"Will that be on your Walmart Mastercard?"
"No, my bank Mastercard."
"Are you interested in..."
"NO."

[12,000 RPM]

Man... maybe I just don't get grief because I look scary

Or they assume I have bad credit

[93JC]

No, they follow you around the store because they think you're going to steal something.

[FoMoJo]

Grrr yeah even Walmart...

"Will that be on your Walmart Mastercard?"
"No, my bank Mastercard."
"Are you interested in..."
"NO."

Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told.  I just say "No thanks, not today".

[Payman]

Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told.  I just say "No thanks, not today".

Oh I know. I maintain my pleasant and charismatic self. Everyone is pushing the upsell these days.

[shp4man]

Speaking of sales staff turnover, I once saw a dumpster with the top layer of trash completely covered up by ex salesman plastic name tags. Must have been at least 500 of them. 

[giant_mtb]

Minimum wage cashiers doing what they're told.  I just say "No thanks, not today".

My first job was workin' the cash register in the home goods section of a department store.  I got "reprimanded" on more than one occasion for not hitting my "goal" for credit card signups.  I was like yeah...that's 'cause I never ask because it's fucking annoying...

Never got in real trouble for it, as I was a golden employee otherwise, but that's certainly a thing nowadays.  Retail blows.  I'm a "member" at Gander Outdoors because I get sale-like prices on lots of things all the time (like ammo).  I also have their card as it saved me $60 when I signed up for it when I bought my pistol.  No intention of ever using the card.  But even though I'm a member and go through that rigamarole with them to get the good pricing, they're still like "welllllll you could get 5% cash back if you use your Gander card, too....you could get 5% cash back....do you wanna get that 5% cash back?"  NO, jesus christ.

It usually helps if you just look them right in the eye and pleasantly say "no thanks!"  Relieves them of their upsell duties.  You can usually tell that they despise having to ask in the first place.

[giant_mtb]

Speaking of sales staff turnover, I once saw a dumpster with the top layer of trash completely covered up by ex salesman plastic name tags. Must have been at least 500 of them. 

Perhaps they kept the old/extras around for new people over the years or if someone lost theirs.  Oh, Jimmy lost his fucking name tag again? *digs through box*

[veeman]

I hate that  the bank I use (TD bank) keeps doing this for the past year or so.  Anytime I stop in and am at the teller "I notice you don't have a TR bank credit card.  Why not? You could be saving so much money!" And on and on about why this is such a great credit card and that I must get it.

Really?!  Didn't banks get the message from the Wells Fargo debacle?  I feel that banks should have a classier way of trying to make money than hound their own customers with verbal credit card pitches.

[Speed_Racer]

My first job was workin' the cash register in the home goods section of a department store.  I got "reprimanded" on more than one occasion for not hitting my "goal" for credit card signups.  I was like yeah...that's 'cause I never ask because it's fucking annoying...

Oh man, flashback. This was the same for me when I worked at Kohls long ago between semesters. Pushing credit was more important to the sales staff than selling clothing haha. If you weren't keeping up with pace, the floor manager gave you a hard time and would passive-aggressively cut your hours. So the best way to keep him/her off your back was to push applications.

You got a successful signup, your name was announced over the intercom (no kidding.) You got the most applications for the day, you usually got a perk or at least your name on a board or something. There would be store-to-store competitions for credit card signups.

One summer I got the title "The Credit King" because I was killing it. My secret was haggling with the customer so they get a higher percentage off their checkout than the Kohl's promotion. If Kohl's was running 10% off and they weren't biting, I'd offer them 30%. Then just run it as an adjustment w/o anybody's approval. The managers didn't know and probably wouldn't have cared. Those cards had like 27% APY interest, so a 30% off discount was like giving customers their first hit free. Serious business when I think about it now! I'm probably going to hell for my tactics.

[Xer0]

Oh man, flashback. This was the same for me when I worked at Kohls long ago between semesters. Pushing credit was more important to the sales staff than selling clothing haha. If you weren't keeping up with pace, the floor manager gave you a hard time and would passive-aggressively cut your hours. So the best way to keep him/her off your back was to push applications.

You got a successful signup, your name was announced over the intercom (no kidding.) You got the most applications for the day, you usually got a perk or at least your name on a board or something. There would be store-to-store competitions for credit card signups.

One summer I got the title "The Credit King" because I was killing it. My secret was haggling with the customer so they get a higher percentage off their checkout than the Kohl's promotion. If Kohl's was running 10% off and they weren't biting, I'd offer them 30%. Then just run it as an adjustment w/o anybody's approval. The managers didn't know and probably wouldn't have cared. Those cards had like 27% APY interest, so a 30% off discount was like giving customers their first hit free. Serious business when I think about it now! I'm probably going to hell for my tactics.

I used to work at the Gap during college and it was a similar situation.  You got someone to drop $300?  Meh.  Someone just bought a $15 shirt but also opened a Gap card?  Holy shit you're the best salesman ever!  It was so incredibly annoying but market research has been done and people with cards buy more stuff.

Not sure how it is now, but the POS gave a lot of leniency for us too and it was easy to give simple 10/20% discounts if people asked or if you liked them.

[giant_mtb]

It was so incredibly annoying but market research has been done and people with cards buy more stuff.

I prefer simple "membership" cards, like Gander, ShopKo, and a couple local grocery stores have.  No fees, no credit card, you just sign up and get a membership card.  They then apply member discounts whenever you shop there.  I don't want another fucking credit card, so if I'm gonna save money in your store without all the hassle via a membership card, I'm simply going to shop there more, plain and simple.

[veeman]

I hate all membership cards and retail store specific credit cards.  I just like walking into the store, and not worrying about whether I'm missing any great deal to be had because I don't have a specific coupon or membership card or whatever.

That's one of the big reasons I like going to Home Depot, Walmart, and Trader Joe's.  There's little bullshit although Home Depot does have super annoying solicitors trying to sell you a kitchen makeover or whatever.

[giant_mtb]

If you have the membership card, you don't have to worry about missing deals.  They just scan your card or punch in your phone number at the checkout and if deals apply, they're applied.  But I agree, fuck credit cards.  Mostly just because I don't want a bunch of credit cards. 

"Are you a member?"

"Yep.  Here's my card."

*scans*

"Great, you saved an extra $12."

"Cool."

[Speed_Racer]

I like my grocery store's method: a loyalty program with an app that supports digital coupons. I can add coupons to my account even while I'm in the store and they automatically deduct when I checkout. No clipping sales or taking up time at the checkout. Makes it painless to save a little extra $.

[Morris Minor]

With our CR-V purchase, we knew exactly what we wanted (a loaded AWD in white) and put it out via USAA's car buying service. We were contacted by three dealers and one of them found one that was on its way to them on a truck. They called us when it came in, we scheduled an appointment, and the sales event was seamless. (They wanted to try to better USAA's financing deal but for 25 basis points is wasn't worth the complication - we weren't financing that much anyway.) They did not try & sell us any worthless crap. Overall it was a positive experience.

I think the whole model of car buying is a ridiculous anachronism. Better to build them to order, per Tesla, per Christian's new A-Class.

[Morris Minor]

Dearth of a Salesman: Auto Dealers Struggle to Recruit, Retain Younger Workers
Turnover is rising in showrooms as more millennials enter the workforce uninterested in selling cars
Car dealerships are facing a roadblock: convincing workers in their 20s and 30s to work and stay in an auto retail business defined by long shifts, weekends on the selling floor, haggling and commission-based pay.

Nearly 60% of dealership hires are millennial workers, and more than half of those new hires turn over annually, according to a study by Hireology, a talent and management firm.

More (paywalled)
https://www.wsj.com/articles/auto-dealers-struggle-to-recruit-retain-younger-workers-1535016600

[MrH]

Why are you getting rid of the 4Runner so soon?

Haven't decided for sure or not. I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he said how low his running costs are on his mazda6.

On a whim, I just looked up the 4Runner and projected depreciation coming up. I haven't lost a lot on it yet, but I'm facing quite a bit next year. New Accords are selling for thousands off MSRP. I ran the numbers to see:

- Almost a straight trade one for one.
- I get a car 3 years and 55k miles newer
- auto loan gets stretched 6 months longer, but I save a corresponding amount of money in monthly payment.
- save a minimal amount on interest (2.5% vs 1.9% I think?)
- $100/month savings in gas
- the most important thing: new accord has a ton of autonomous driving features. Trying to make my commute a little less miserable.

Not totally sold on it yet. Depends if they offer enough on trade in on the 4Runner. The new accord is incredible though. It's ten times the car my old Genesis was.

[AutobahnSHO]

-I'm surprised millenials last as long as salesmen as they do- seems like sucky hours sucky pay sucky job.

-When I go home the Smith's supermarket (now owned by Kroger LOL) has okay prices with a card but like double if you don't. So I give them my mom's phone number.

The best rewards card I've found is Autozone. Everytime you spend $20+ you get a point. 5 points= $20 off next order.

[CaminoRacer]

The best rewards card I've found is Autozone. Everytime you spend $20+ you get a point. 5 points= $20 off next order.

Dude I've gotten thousands of dollars of Autozone rewards.

[Payman]

I use the hell out of my Canadian Tire Mastercard. Every 2 months or so I've earned enough CT cash to buy a powertool or something for the house.

[FoMoJo]

Haven't decided for sure or not. I was hanging out with a friend the other night and he said how low his running costs are on his mazda6.

On a whim, I just looked up the 4Runner and projected depreciation coming up. I haven't lost a lot on it yet, but I'm facing quite a bit next year. New Accords are selling for thousands off MSRP. I ran the numbers to see:

- Almost a straight trade one for one.
- I get a car 3 years and 55k miles newer
- auto loan gets stretched 6 months longer, but I save a corresponding amount of money in monthly payment.
- save a minimal amount on interest (2.5% vs 1.9% I think?)
- $100/month savings in gas
- the most important thing: new accord has a ton of autonomous driving features. Trying to make my commute a little less miserable.

Not totally sold on it yet. Depends if they offer enough on trade in on the 4Runner. The new accord is incredible though. It's ten times the car my old Genesis was.

Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately?  A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.

[Payman]

Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately?  A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.

This used to be the way to go, but trying to sell privately can be a massive headache, take a long time to get anywhere near the price you're asking, and you lose any negotiating leverage a trade-in offers.

[MrH]

Wouldn't you be better off selling the 4Runner privately?  A dealer wouldn't want to give you what it's worth.

They can immediately put this on their toyota lot as certified pre-owned.

I could get $1k-$2k more privately.  Almost totally negated by the tax savings from trading it in ($1800 on a $28k) car.  Then you have to deal with the idiots on craigslist and autotrader.  Hard pass.