GM - had to do it

Started by veeman, November 28, 2018, 10:43:28 AM


giant_mtb

The future is also flying cars and floating cities on Mars.  But I mean...yeah, let's just drop everything now and focus on that and tell people buzzwords!

2o6

They only discontinued a couple car lines.


Malibu, Sonic, Spark, et al are still being made.

veeman


Galaxy

I would point out that the last time GM focused on trucks and SUVs it lead to their downfall. I guess one difference to today is that the difference in fuel consumption is not that great, but it is still there.

2o6

Side note, does anyone else feel that this big push that "everyone is buying EV's and Crossovers" is wholly fake? Yes, car sales are down and crossover sales are up, but to say that no one has ever liked cars and will ever like cars again seems like it's coming from thin air.

2o6

Quote from: Galaxy on November 28, 2018, 11:27:33 AM
I would point out that the last time GM focused on trucks and SUVs it lead to their downfall. I guess one difference to today is that the difference in fuel consumption is not that great, but it is still there.

Also GM's car line was ass.


GM's current car line is competitive.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 11:34:52 AM
Side note, does anyone else feel that this big push that "everyone is buying EV's and Crossovers" is wholly fake? Yes, car sales are down and crossover sales are up, but to say that no one has ever liked cars and will ever like cars again seems like it's coming from thin air.
Dunno about nobody ever liking cars before or in the future or EVs but light trucks are def killing cars in sales



It's hard to say what caused it... but light trucks are definitely more practical and easier to live with, with very little compromise vs the cars they are generally cross shopped with (i.e. not the cars they are based on)

A lot of sedans killed themselves with bad packaging too. Taurus is huge but not much roomier if at all than a Fusion. Unless you regularly seat 5 a Corolla is not much less roomy than a Camry. A lot of brands just have too many damn sedans
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

giant_mtb

Are CUVs included in light trucks?  I see they include minivans and SUVs, but are they considering CUVs to be SUVs?

2o6

"Light truck" is also a liberal term. The outback and old PT Cruiser are also "light trucks".


I just think the "no one wants cars" hyperbole is the too much avocado toast nonsense of the car world.

12,000 RPM

Quote from: giant_mtb on November 28, 2018, 12:01:39 PM
Are CUVs included in light trucks?  I see they include minivans and SUVs, but are they considering CUVs to be SUVs?
I think so

Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 12:03:43 PM
"Light truck" is also a liberal term. The outback and old PT Cruiser are also "light trucks".


I just think the "no one wants cars" hyperbole is the too much avocado toast nonsense of the car world.
I mean, there are people who want cars. But we are dwindling in numbers.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

GoCougs

Quote from: veeman on November 28, 2018, 10:43:28 AM
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/amphtml/business/economy/gm-layoffs-and-plant-shutdowns-suggest-us-economy-may-be-starting-to-slow--and-dent-trumps-claim-of-an-industrial-renaissance/2018/11/26/39533566-f1ba-11e8-80d0-f7e1948d55f4_story.html

Closing factories, laying off thousands, killing off their cars, pissing off Trump.  Had to do it.  The now is SUVs and Pickups and the future is electric and automation. 

Problem is we are in unprecedented boom times, and yet, the vast majority of Americans can't afford either EVs or autonomous vehicles (and even then they don't work) and automakers can't make money producing them. This coming downturn will likely destroy any such notion of either, with the future being ever more efficient ICE vehicles that more closely match both affordability and need.

Payman

Quote from: GoCougs on November 28, 2018, 12:40:27 PM
Problem is we are in unprecedented boom times, and yet, the vast majority of Americans can't afford either EVs or autonomous vehicles (and even then they don't work) and automakers can't make money producing them. This coming downturn will likely destroy any such notion of either, with the future being ever more efficient ICE vehicles that more closely match both affordability and need.

I have to agree.

giant_mtb


Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 10:51:45 AM
They only discontinued a couple car lines.


Malibu, Sonic, Spark, et al are still being made.

The Malibu is total crap, and the Spark is too small. Those two should have been the first to go.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

2o6

Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on November 28, 2018, 01:05:50 PM
The Malibu is total crap, and the Spark is too small. Those two should have been the first to go.

I like the Malibu. The 1.5T is great

12,000 RPM

Yea I have not heard anything bad about the Malibu.
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 01:11:41 PM
I like the Malibu. The 1.5T is great

It would be great in the Spark.

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 28, 2018, 01:13:50 PM
Yea I have not heard anything bad about the Malibu.

I just said it was crap.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

SJ_GTI


Payman

The Cruze is the biggest shock.

Eye of the Tiger

Quote from: Rockraven on November 28, 2018, 02:09:47 PM
The Cruze is the biggest shock.

They only sold a jizzillion, despite being outdated and unreliable.
2008 TUNDRA (Truck Ultra-wideband Never-say-die Daddy Rottweiler Awesome)

2o6


r0tor

Quote from: 12,000 RPM on November 28, 2018, 11:49:18 AM
Dunno about nobody ever liking cars before or in the future or EVs but light trucks are def killing cars in sales



It's hard to say what caused it... but light trucks are definitely more practical and easier to live with, with very little compromise vs the cars they are generally cross shopped with (i.e. not the cars they are based on)

A lot of sedans killed themselves with bad packaging too. Taurus is huge but not much roomier if at all than a Fusion. Unless you regularly seat 5 a Corolla is not much less roomy than a Camry. A lot of brands just have too many damn sedans

I'd like to see a graph of advertising dollars spent for each... My guess is the curves would look about the same.

I'm not convinced the will of the people moved on from cars so quickly - more likely impressive amounts of marketing dollars spent by manufacturers to brainwash people into higher profit vehicles
2011 Jeep Grand Cherokee No Speed -- 2004 Mazda RX8 6 speed -- 2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia All Speed

FoMoJo

Quote from: 2o6 on November 28, 2018, 11:34:52 AM
Side note, does anyone else feel that this big push that "everyone is buying EV's and Crossovers" is wholly fake? Yes, car sales are down and crossover sales are up, but to say that no one has ever liked cars and will ever like cars again seems like it's coming from thin air.
CUVs/Crossovers make sense to a lot of people simply because they are easier to live with.  Not much different from cars as far as driving but simply more comfortable to get into and out of and handier to carry stuff in. 
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

AutobahnSHO

But watch gas prices spoke and people go nuts trying to buy up little cars.
Will

RomanChariot

#25
Honestly, I think the minivan killed the car. Men have always had an affinity toward trucks and SUVs and they were willing to deal with them being rough around the edges. Women typically preferred cars. When women with children started driving minivans they enjoyed the car-like ride while having more room and a higher seating position. As their children moved on, a lot of these women chose to move into midsize SUVs that offered them what they enjoyed about the minivan while being a little more trendy and palatable to their significant others.

My own wife has suggested that she may want an SUV when we no longer need our minivan because she enjoys the higher seating position.

FoMoJo

Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 28, 2018, 04:41:54 PM
But watch gas prices spoke and people go nuts trying to buy up little cars.
CUVs with small displacement turbo engines get excellent mileage.
"The only reason for time is so that everything doesn't happen at once." ~ Albert Einstein
"As the saying goes, when you mix science and politics, you get politics."

BimmerM3

Quote from: RomanChariot on November 28, 2018, 04:50:35 PM
Honestly, I think the minivan killed the car. Men have always had an affinity toward trucks and SUVs and they were willing to deal with them being rough around the edges. Women typically preferred cars. When women with children started driving minivans they enjoyed the car-like ride while having more room and a higher seating position. As their children moved on, a lot of these women chose to move into midsize SUVs that offered them what they enjoyed about the minivan while being a little more trendy and palatable to their significant others.

My own wife has suggested that she may want an SUV when we no longer need our minivan because she enjoys the higher seating position.

IIRC, seating position was the primary reason my mom switched to an SUV back in the 90s... and her car before that was a Dodge Caravan. So you might be on to something there lol.

BimmerM3

#28
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on November 28, 2018, 04:41:54 PM
But watch gas prices spoke and people go nuts trying to buy up little cars.
Quote from: FoMoJo on November 28, 2018, 04:52:33 PM
CUVs with small displacement turbo engines get excellent mileage.

I think purchase price could play as much or more of a role as gas prices. Just as a quick example, Imprezas and Legacys are both $3-4k less than their CUV counterparts, which is not an insignificant percentage of the overall purchase, and not all Outback drivers really need the extra clearance. The Fiesta is nearly $6k less than the Fiesta-based Ecosport.

(To be fair, I didn't compare non-CUV-related options to see if that made up some of the difference on any of the cars above.)

12,000 RPM

Quote from: r0tor on November 28, 2018, 02:49:24 PM
I'd like to see a graph of advertising dollars spent for each... My guess is the curves would look about the same.

I'm not convinced the will of the people moved on from cars so quickly - more likely impressive amounts of marketing dollars spent by manufacturers to brainwash people into higher profit vehicles
Did they brainwash you into your JGC?

Lot of Giulia commercials too. Were you brainwashed into that as well?

Really no legit reasons anyone might want a crossover over a sedan?
Protecctor of the Atmospheric Engine #TheyLiedToUs