GM - had to do it

[FoMoJo]

I'm a Ford fanboy, but a 60s Ford fanboy; mainly due to their investment and success in all forms of racing.

However, the '01 Escape that I daily drove for 15 years with nothing but maintenance and a couple of wear parts, was a good indication to me that build quality matches anything the imports do; without the sludging, spaghetti ECM code and crappy transmissions that the imports have all experienced.

Far too much is marketing perception; including residual values.

[Morris Minor]

GM has realized that unless your sedan is of the very best quality, at furthest right it's possible to get on the excellence bell curve, you should not bother competing in what is now a specialist segment. Churning out subpar fodder for rental fleets is not the stuff of success.

[BimmerM3]

I'd expect that most modern cars will last 10 years and 100k-150k miles with minimal issues, but I'd still bet on more Toyotas and Hondas to live to 200k+ than domestics. Maybe I'm wrong and that's all perception though.

[giant_mtb]

I'm a Ford fanboy, but a 60s Ford fanboy; mainly due to their investment and success in all forms of racing.

However, the '01 Escape that I daily drove for 15 years with nothing but maintenance and a couple of wear parts, was a good indication to me that build quality matches anything the imports do; without the sludging, spaghetti ECM code and crappy transmissions that the imports have all experienced.

Far too much is marketing perception; including residual values.

Those first-gen Escapes proved to be surprisingly robust. Can definitely tell they're a bit dated when I climb into one, but that's the case for any 10+ year old car. They keep on truckin.

I see as many rustbucket exhibits as I do clean ones.  Ford hit the nail on the head with it, IMO.

[2o6]

 

Those first-gen Escapes proved to be surprisingly robust. Can definitely tell they're a bit dated when I climb into one, but that's the case for any 10+ year old car. They keep on truckin.

I see as many rustbucket exhibits as I do clean ones.  Ford hit the nail on the head with it, IMO.

Unless it's a 2.3L, which will have the oil pump fail with no warning.

[MrH]

I'm a Ford fanboy, but a 60s Ford fanboy; mainly due to their investment and success in all forms of racing.

However, the '01 Escape that I daily drove for 15 years with nothing but maintenance and a couple of wear parts, was a good indication to me that build quality matches anything the imports do; without the sludging, spaghetti ECM code and crappy transmissions that the imports have all experienced.

Far too much is marketing perception; including residual values.

The statistics say otherwise.

[giant_mtb]

Unless it's a 2.3L, which will have the oil pump fail with no warning.

True. Pretty much all that I see are sixers.

[FoMoJo]

Those first-gen Escapes proved to be surprisingly robust. Can definitely tell they're a bit dated when I climb into one, but that's the case for any 10+ year old car. They keep on truckin.

I see as many rustbucket exhibits as I do clean ones.  Ford hit the nail on the head with it, IMO.

I made sure it was sprayed with Krown each year.  No rust.  Really sorry to give it up.  The 3.0 Duratec V6 was/is one of the premier engines of the time.

[Eye of the Tiger]

I made sure it was sprayed with Krown each year.  No rust.  Really sorry to give it up.  The 3.0 Duratec V6 was/is one of the premier engines of the time.

What a waste of perfectly ok Canadian whiskey.

[FoMoJo]

The statistics say otherwise.

What statistics, Consumers Report?

[FoMoJo]

What a waste of perfectly ok Canadian whiskey.

Different K/Crown.  You wouldn't like to drink Krown.

[GoCougs]

The statistics say otherwise.

A number of good things can be said about domestic product - that it is as robust and as reliable as Japanese product (esp. Toyota and Honda) isn't one of them however.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Different K/Crown.  You wouldn't like to drink Krown.

I used to spray Amsoil Metal Protector all over exposed metal parts.
My dad just got rid if his first gen Escape due to subframe rust, and he took pretty good care of it.

[FoMoJo]

A number of good things can be said about domestic product - that it is as robust and as reliable as Japanese product (esp. Toyota and Honda) isn't one of them however.

Each of them, Toyota and Honda, have had their major problems but, especially Toyota, tend to blame their customers.  They've, actually, gotten pretty good at it but alas, an older article, but fitting ...Toyota Brings Perfection To Corporate Meltdown.

Toyota groupies are like Trump supporters, blind and deaf to reality.

p.s.  Don't forget about Honda's transmission explosions when they tried to add a little more power to their V6s.

[FoMoJo]

I used to spray Amsoil Metal Protector all over exposed metal parts.
My dad just got rid if his first gen Escape due to subframe rust, and he took pretty good care of it.

Got to get it into all the creases, inside and out.

[Eye of the Tiger]

Got to get it into all the creases, inside and out.

Correction, I suppose me dad's Escape was considered second generation - 2008. I just consider that generation a facelift. Ten years isn't great, but not awful cobsidering he drove it all winter in Maine.

[FoMoJo]

Correction, I suppose me dad's Escape was considered second generation - 2008. I just consider that generation a facelift. Ten years isn't great, but not awful cobsidering he drove it all winter in Maine.

My wfie had a 2009, same face lift, but with 2.5 Mazda engine and 6 spd automatic.  Our daughter has it now with about 230,000 kilometers.  Crazy, but absolutely nothings gone wrong with it yet.  Brakes were the most expensive maintenance so far and they were done at 150 k.  Scary, I know, but it's still on the original Michelin tires, though they've been swapped with Hankook snow tires each winter.  They're original as well.  I may have to buy our daughter a new set of summer tires next year; if she's too cheap to get them on her own.

[AutobahnSHO]

My 10yr/168k miles at purchase Odyssey has been infinitely better than the Plymouth and Dodge minivans I bought with 100k miles on them. Knock on wood, we're at 230k now.

[FoMoJo]

My 10yr/168k miles at purchase Odyssey has been infinitely better than the Plymouth and Dodge minivans I bought with 100k miles on them. Knock on wood, we're at 230k now.

Well, there you go...Plymouth and Dodge.  Wouldn't touch them with a 10 foot pole.

[CaminoRacer]

Unless it's a 2.3L, which will have the oil pump fail with no warning.

166k and still chugging along fine.

[2o6]

166k and still chugging along fine.

You're the exception, not the norm.

[12,000 RPM]

GM has realized that unless your sedan is of the very best quality, at furthest right it's possible to get on the excellence bell curve, you should not bother competing in what is now a specialist segment. Churning out subpar fodder for rental fleets is not the stuff of success.

I don't think GM's stuff is subpar. Domestics kind of get a bad rap. Wifey's MKX is 8 years old... we've had it for 2 years with absolutely no problems. I know it's just 1 data point but with my luck something should have gone wrong.

Like I said domestics are paying the price for churning out decades of crap. Even if they make cars that are decent, they have to offer a huge "our stuff is good now but we know you don't believe us" discounts. That's just not sustainable in shrinking segments with razor thin margins during the best of times.

[Morris Minor]

My 10yr/168k miles at purchase Odyssey has been infinitely better than the Plymouth and Dodge minivans I bought with 100k miles on them. Knock on wood, we're at 230k now.

My son still has the Pilot I bought in 2002: 184,000 miles. He's replaced the transmission, but it's served him well. He's right on the edge of the decision whether to fix the a/c or replace the car. I was a bit worried about the shocks & suspension bushings but he doesn't want to spend the money on that.
(I think the first transmission would still be in there if he hadn't towed a ridiculously overweight trailer from Boston to San Diego via Atlanta)

[AutobahnSHO]

Fix the a/c and it will be good another 100k miles...

I've never worried about suspension on all my cars

[TBR]

My wfie had a 2009, same face lift, but with 2.5 Mazda engine and 6 spd automatic.  Our daughter has it now with about 230,000 kilometers.  Crazy, but absolutely nothings gone wrong with it yet.  Brakes were the most expensive maintenance so far and they were done at 150 k.  Scary, I know, but it's still on the original Michelin tires, though they've been swapped with Hankook snow tires each winter.  They're original as well.  I may have to buy our daughter a new set of summer tires next year; if she's too cheap to get them on her own.

I am not expert... but I don't think you really want 10 year old tires.. regardless of wear. I thought rubber started to rot or something around 5 years.

[FoMoJo]

I am not expert... but I don't think you really want 10 year old tires.. regardless of wear. I thought rubber started to rot or something around 5 years.

I know.  I will get her a new set come Spring unless she/they make a commitment to replace them.  It's still surprising that they lasted so long though, but I do see tiny cracks in the compound. 

She's saving for a down payment on a condo, so it's hard for her to spend extra on things like tires.

[12,000 RPM]

If she is making any headway on those savings she can easily afford a $300-400 set of tires

[giant_mtb]

Not to go all Dad here, but tires are one of the single most important pieces on your car besides the brakes themselves.  Plus, they last years.

[FoMoJo]

If she is making any headway on those savings she can easily afford a $300-400 set of tires

Not to go all Dad here, but tires are one of the single most important pieces on your car besides the brakes themselves.  Plus, they last years.

They'd be about $800 a set up here.

When she gets close to a down payment, the housing prices go up and she needs to save more.  Hoping for a slump in housing.

[CaminoRacer]

Fix the a/c and it will be good another 100k miles...

I've never worried about suspension on all my cars

I had to replace the rear shocks because they started making noise over bumps. I don't think the oil had leaked out, but the outer bits had rusted and made them not work well. The car is way nicer to drive now, which is good because the nicer the car drives, the more I'm willing to keep it going.