What got us excited...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--vERhrJjZ--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/jog0cdws93gern5qe8gh.jpg) :wub: :dance: :wub:
What looks like we are getting...
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SXC8kfgE--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wadnylahcjqa1ujelo86.jpg) :zzz: :wanker: :zzz:
So will this be a 4300 lbs pig based on the Lexus GS like the RC? Or is this a hot version of the Frisbee?
I think it's a new platform developed with BMW.
But Toyota being Toyota, made their nose as ugly as can be
Quote from: MX793 on September 07, 2016, 08:58:05 AM
So will this be a 4300 lbs pig based on the Lexus GS like the RC? Or is this a hot version of the Frisbee?
Definitely looks like a tarted up 86, and definitely not the Corvette competitor that the prototype promised.
It looks like a sports car :huh:
Whatever happened with the LC? That thing came and went like the wind.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 09:09:41 AM
Definitely looks like a tarted up 86, and definitely not the Corvette competitor that the prototype promised.
How is a tarted up 86 with way more HP and refinement not a Corvette competitor? That actually sounds awesome and a lot like what people wanted the 86 to be in the first place.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2016, 09:13:32 AM
How is a tarted up 86 with way more HP and refinement not a Corvette competitor? That actually sounds awesome and a lot like what people wanted the 86 to be in the first place.
In this segment, you need to look the part. It's not only about numbers.
Do you want it with 4 doors as well?
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 09:17:46 AM
In this segment, you need to look the part. It's not only about numbers.
Do you want it with 4 doors as well?
In what segment? This looks as sporty as a Cayman or Corvette. Plus it's heavily camouflaged. It's definitely way more aggressive than the 86 too.
The 86 was developed by Subaru so I doubt it's a tarted up frisbee. It's probably a ground up design.
Either way, it doesn't look bad so I'm looking forward to it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Quote from: Xer0 on September 07, 2016, 11:24:04 AM
The 86 was developed by Subaru so I doubt it's a tarted up frisbee. It's probably a ground up design.
Either way, it doesn't look bad so I'm looking forward to it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Apparently it's an all new platform co-developed with BMW. It just
looks like a tarted up Frisbee.
What about it exactly looks like the Frisbee? The short deck long hood proportions literally every front engine sports car ever has? :confused:
I'm personally excited about this; I thought this project was dead.
Looks kinda disappointing. More downmarket than it should be.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2016, 11:40:38 AM
What about it exactly looks like the Frisbee? The short deck long hood proportions literally every front engine sports car ever has? :confused:
I'm personally excited about this; I thought this project was dead.
Agreed
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2016, 11:40:38 AM
What about it exactly looks like the Frisbee? The short deck long hood proportions literally every front engine sports car ever has? :confused:
I'm personally excited about this; I thought this project was dead.
Quote from: CALL_911 on September 07, 2016, 11:44:36 AM
Agreed
(http://image.automotive.com/f/scion-fr-s-2013-road-test/41030869/2013-scion-frs-sidejpg.jpg)
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--SXC8kfgE--/c_scale,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/wadnylahcjqa1ujelo86.jpg)
(http://www.specspost.co.uk/products_pictures/Michael%20Caine%20Glasses.jpg)
I do see some Mustang in it though. If this is its new target, well then a sub-40k Japanese Pony car is good news indeed.
I'm really not seeing the problem. It's not like the BRZ is an ugly car, and again this looks way more aggressive.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 12:32:31 PM
I do see some Mustang in it though. If this is its new target, well then a sub-40k Japanese Pony car is good news indeed.
Considering Rustangs and Cameros are already $40-50k for a decent one there's no way this is coming in under $40k, especially given the FRS/BRZ is a $30k+ car with options.
Definitely more of a Mustang competitor than a Corvette killer.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 07, 2016, 12:41:23 PM
Considering Rustangs and Cameros are already $40-50k for a decent one there's no way this is coming in under $40k, especially given the FRS/BRZ is a $30k+ car with options.
They could pull a Z, but do it right.....
What would be "right" that the Z didn't do.
You really have to consider the price of the Z and realize why it doesn't have Twin turbo's, DSG's and carbon fiber.
It's a light(ish) 30K 2 seat sports car that is actually adequately fast. I think nissan made the right choice with regards to pricing vs performance. That said, I'd love to see the next Z get the company TT V6 and shed maybe 100lbs. For that I'd pay more, but the market as a whole may not.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2016, 12:36:57 PM
I'm really not seeing the problem. It's not like the BRZ is an ugly car, and again this looks way more aggressive.
All I'm saying is the show car had the semi-exotic looks that stylistically made it a legitimate Corvette slayer. But to me, stylistically it looks more like a sport coupe in the vein of the Nissan Z and Mustang. But admittedly, we're looking at a camo'd car and it's still to early to say for sure.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 02:20:08 PM
All I'm saying is the show car had the semi-exotic looks that stylistically made it a legitimate Corvette slayer. But to me, stylistically it looks more like a sport coupe in the vein of the Nissan Z and Mustang. But admittedly, we're looking at a camo'd car and it's still to early to say for sure.
You can't beat a benchmark by cloning it and putting your badge on it. Haven't we learned anything from the ATS?
Plus not everyone wants a Corvette. I find the C7 to be ugly and overwrought with cartoonish proportions. This looks way way more appealing to me than a Corvette.... even if it's a gussied up Febreeze. Let's not forget the original Supra was just a fancy Celica :huh:
I think it looks great and should offer a real alternative to the Vette. More legitimate variety is a good thing.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 09:09:41 AM
Definitely looks like a tarted up 86, and definitely not the Corvette competitor that the prototype promised.
And nail has been hit on the head........
More pics here.
http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2019-toyota-supra-spy-photos-news
Blah.....
You guys are really complaining about spy pics of a relatively affordable, RWD sports car? Really? :facepalm:
I'm just excited automakers are still willing to give a damn about fun cars and are willing to take a chance on a not bread-and-butter car. Will I buy one? Probably not, because I want the RX7/RX Vision thing that Mazda is working on, but still, I'm not going to be complaining about shitty pics of a car in camo.
Sheesh.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 07, 2016, 05:29:38 PM
You guys are really complaining about spy pics of a relatively affordable, RWD sports car? Really? :facepalm:
I'm just excited automakers are still willing to give a damn about fun cars and are willing to take a chance on a not bread-and-butter car. Will I buy one? Probably not, because I want the RX7/RX Vision thing that Mazda is working on, but still, I'm not going to be complaining about shitty pics of a car in camo.
Sheesh.
I'm complaining about a car priced at 40K that looks just like a 25k BRZ.....
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 07, 2016, 05:29:38 PM
You guys are really complaining about spy pics of a relatively affordable, RWD sports car? Really? :facepalm:
I'm just excited automakers are still willing to give a damn about fun cars and are willing to take a chance on a not bread-and-butter car. Will I buy one? Probably not, because I want the RX7/RX Vision thing that Mazda is working on, but still, I'm not going to be complaining about shitty pics of a car in camo.
Sheesh.
You can't tease me with a delicious steak and then give me a McDonald's hamburger and expect me to be happy.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-G8 on September 07, 2016, 05:31:47 PM
I'm complaining about a car priced at 40K that looks just like a 25k BRZ.....
You can't tell what it looks like other than the general shape... :wtf: :confused:
Visually, I agree with the complaints that it's nothing special, unless it's a major trick of the cladding or even some mule parts. I don't know that there's a rule for what a performance car has to look like at a given price point, but it just looks old -- it does look a lot like the FR-S/BRZ, and those were already nothing special visually when they came out four years ago.
On the other hand, I'd still pick understated over garish, and I'd pick either over oversized. It does at least look compact.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 07, 2016, 05:47:15 PM
You can't tell what it looks like other than the general shape... :wtf: :confused:
Look at the link I posted! Even Ray Charles could see it's a FRS in disguise!
A BRZ with more engine is what everyone wanted in the first place, and basically what the Supra was in the first place. You guys are just complaining to complain.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 07, 2016, 07:12:46 PM
A BRZ with more engine is what everyone wanted in the first place, and basically what the Supra was in the first place. You guys are just complaining to complain.
No, we were teased with an exotic looking Corvette slayer, but it looks like we are instead getting a Japanese pony car. Which I'm sure will be a fine sporty car. The disappointment is that the design has been heavily watered down for production.
I mean that's life bro... no concept car gets translated 100%
Here is the C7 Stingray concept for example
(http://www.amcarguide.com/wp-content/gallery/c7-corvette-renders/2012-c7-corvette-02-concept.jpg)
It is what it is, you've been an enthusiast too long to be surprised by this.
Quote from: Rockraven on September 07, 2016, 07:59:16 PM
No, we were teased with an exotic looking Corvette slayer, but it looks like we are instead getting a Japanese pony car. Which I'm sure will be a fine sporty car. The disappointment is that the design has been heavily watered down for production.
:hesaid: At least the C7 concept resembles an actual C7! That Supra concept looks NOTHING like these mules running around! To my eye they're not even the same size!
It's not just the styling, it's the performance. Doesn't look like it'll be on the same level at all.
Redline is exactly the same as the RC-F.
There is still hope for the 5.0L V8
Quote from: Cookie Monster on September 07, 2016, 05:47:15 PM
You can't tell what it looks like other than the general shape... :wtf: :confused:
Plus it's a 2019 model - it may not even be the final styling.
This thread is why I don't get excited about concepts or pre-production hypothesizing. What does the actual car look like, how does the actual car perform, what does the actual car cost.
Quote from: Rupert on September 08, 2016, 12:09:31 AM
This thread is why I don't get excited about concepts or pre-production hypothesizing. What does the actual car look like, how does the actual car perform, what does the actual car cost.
Is it even coming out.... remember the decade long NSX dick tease.... only for it to wind up being the GT-R's overweight MR cousin.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 08, 2016, 05:33:18 AM
Is it even coming out.... remember the decade long NSX dick tease.... only for it to wind up being the GT-R's overweight MR cousin.
Yeah it's only 60lbs less, and since it only has 500 "real" ICE horsepower is actually slower than the GT-R despite weighing less, having 3 extra gears, and being rated at a higher total horsepower.
Don't spoil it bro I'm about to watch it right now.
:mask:
Quote from: 68_427 on September 07, 2016, 10:56:52 PM
Redline is exactly the same as the RC-F.
There is still hope for the 5.0L V8
Reports indicate 4 cylinder or 6 cylinder engines, both likely turbocharged.
4 cylinder Supra? :pee:
Will it be a horizontal 4, purely coincidence of course.
Maybe they're going back to the old Celica and Celica Supra scheme as the next gen 86? :hmm:
I'm not fully convinced this is actually the BMW-Toyota collaboration, despite what Jalopnik thinks.
Ya, the whole BMW thing doesn't smell right.
Do you guys see something different from what I see? A heavily camouflaged prototype that may or may not even have the real body under the camo?
You guys are worse than college students, always looking for something to be down on. At least wait for unclad photos before you deem it a failure and just a tarted up Frisbee.
I'm excited for this thing. This is probably the only car on the horizon (save for the mythical RX-7 that'll never show) that I'm looking forward too.
This is what IHS is showing right now:
Looks like it's being designed out of Munich with BMW and Toyota. They're going to make it at the Magna Steyr plant in Graz, Austria (contract manufacturer that has assembled a lot of unique cars).
Launch timing isn't until the spring of CY 2019 unfortunately. Two engine options (2.0L, 16v 4 cylinder, and a 3.0L, 24V, inline 6). 8 speed auto or 6 speed manual. RWD.
2019? Will there even be a market for performance cars not named Miata, Corvette, or 911 by then? :(
Specs sound awesome outside of the poopy butt 2.0T I4. They must commit. I'm guessing this is going to be the replacement for the Z4...
It's supposed to share a platform with the upcoming Z4/Z5 (whatever they end up calling it). I didn't see that listed on IHS though.
Yeah, 2019 is a long ways away still. Kind of an interesting collaboration though. BMW + Toyota + Magna Steyr.
There is a sports car gap right now I feel like. You have the FRS/BRZ and miata at the low end battling it out. The low end muscle cars aren't sports cars IMO. They're very much rental queens. But then you have the 400+ hp monsters.
Where are the 370Z competitors? That car might as well be dead since it's so old, but nothing really occupies that space anymore.
Not sure I'd dismiss the low end (non V8) pony cars as nothing more than rental Queens. They'll run with a 370Z these days. The S197 V6 Mustang tied the Z car's time around VIR in C&D's hands and did so with a 112 mph top speed governor (meaning it was making up time in the corners). The newer generations are even more capable. The lesser models have evolved into pretty capable GT cars.
Well, maybe not the V6 Challenger, but even the V8 Chally is more of a straight-line bruiser than corner carver.
http://youtu.be/0ZSM_tlL_1Y
From Jalop:
The low-slung coupe is a joint project between BMW and Toyota, and is expected to go on sale in either 2018 or 2019. The Supra will share its platform with the upcoming BMW Z5, and is expected to have about 400 hp.
Our tipsters at SupraMKV.com believe this sounds like the expected top-of-the-line performance hybrid V6 engine. Other powertrain options they expect to go on sale include a turbo four-cylinder and a twin-turbo six-cylinder.
Rental queens? This is one of the best under $35k sounds on the market, and according to tests, one of the best sports bargains period...
http://youtu.be/Qrs0oa-XIV4
I just can't get behind the V6 pony cars. Sorry guys :lol:
Quote from: MrH on September 20, 2016, 02:02:07 PM
I just can't get behind the V6 pony cars. Sorry guys :lol:
The heritage is not with V6's, I agree.
Quote from: MrH on September 20, 2016, 01:29:49 PM
It's supposed to share a platform with the upcoming Z4/Z5 (whatever they end up calling it). I didn't see that listed on IHS though.
Yeah, 2019 is a long ways away still. Kind of an interesting collaboration though. BMW + Toyota + Magna Steyr.
There is a sports car gap right now I feel like. You have the FRS/BRZ and miata at the low end battling it out. The low end muscle cars aren't sports cars IMO. They're very much rental queens. But then you have the 400+ hp monsters.
Where are the 370Z competitors? That car might as well be dead since it's so old, but nothing really occupies that space anymore.
There's just no demand. The barrier between fun and practical had been broken down. If something fills the gap it will have to be a lot more extreme than a Z or even this. There's a reason mainstream sports cars are dead but boutique track day specials are multiplying. Only way I'd do another sports car is if it were extreme enough to replace my motorcycle. Outside of that a stickshift 340i with parts will do what these cars do without the day to day headaches
A 340i with parts will definitely provide day to day headaches :lol:
Quote from: MrH on September 20, 2016, 10:28:10 PM
A 340i with parts will definitely provide day to day headaches :lol:
:golfclap:
:lol:
:lol:
(https://i.imgsafe.org/2aedeeb116.jpg)
If Toyota brought that Supra back, just with Apple car play and Bluetooth, people would flock to it.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Im pretty sure you can get a Corolla with Apple Carplay and BT. That's the ground floor, not a competitive advantage.
My dream for this would be a mild hybrid + high revving V6 with either a 7MT or DCT at less than 3500lbs. Even then though that package sounds a lot better as a Lexus IS. Prob won't cost much more either.
Quote from: MrH on September 20, 2016, 10:28:10 PM
A 340i with parts will definitely provide day to day headaches :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2016, 11:45:39 AM
Im pretty sure you can get a Corolla with Apple Carplay and BT. That's the ground floor, not a competitive advantage.
My dream for this would be a mild hybrid + high revving V6 with either a 7MT or DCT at less than 3500lbs. Even then though that package sounds a lot better as a Lexus IS. Prob won't cost much more either.
Mild hybrid?
Dream bigger, man.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on September 21, 2016, 11:45:39 AM
Im pretty sure you can get a Corolla with Apple Carplay and BT. That's the ground floor, not a competitive advantage.
My dream for this would be a mild hybrid + high revving V6 with either a 7MT or DCT at less than 3500lbs. Even then though that package sounds a lot better as a Lexus IS. Prob won't cost much more either.
Toyota doesn't do mild hybrid. If they go hybrid, we'll end up with the drivetrain out of that new Lexus GT car that's basically the engine and CVT out of an RX hybrid with a 4AT bolted to the output to make it feel like it has fixed ratios.
https://jalopnik.com/the-toyota-supra-debut-is-going-to-be-in-a-camouflaged-1827445584
Welcome to the next Demon unveil. Yet the Dodge's wasn't this prolonged either.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/heres-the-new-toyota-supra-as-a-nascar-racer
A terrible looking road car makes a terrible looking racecar.
(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Proboscis_monkey_%28Nasalis_larvatus%29_male_head.jpg/220px-Proboscis_monkey_%28Nasalis_larvatus%29_male_head.jpg)
Quote from: Rich on July 09, 2018, 12:20:32 PM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/heres-the-new-toyota-supra-as-a-nascar-racer
A terrible looking road car makes a terrible looking racecar.
NASCAR is basically a spec series. They all run the same body shapes. Take the decals off and it's impossible to tell a Camry from a Mustang or Camaro, and none of them really look like their production counterparts. Wouldn't let the stock car version affect my opinion of the street car.
Yeah I was gonna say...I thought all NASCARs were basically identical.
Quote from: MX793 on July 09, 2018, 01:40:34 PM
Take the decals off and it's impossible to tell a Camry from a Mustang or Camaro
Yeah you can
https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/news/2020-supra-leaked-in-full-by-toyota-germany
It looks better now that we see it with the camo off, especially the rear 3/4 view.
Quote from: Rockraven on December 29, 2018, 07:20:00 AM
https://driving.ca/toyota/auto-news/news/2020-supra-leaked-in-full-by-toyota-germany
It looks better now that we see it with the camo off, especially the rear 3/4 view.
:confused:
That 3/4 view is hideous.
Expensive, mediocre power, and slushy-only. Hard pass. BMW or MB might be able to ask 60K for a car like this, but Toyota probably should have broken out the L badge for this one.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on September 07, 2016, 06:01:36 PM
Look at the link I posted! Even Ray Charles could see it's a FRS in disguise!
With a BMW engine?
I admit, it doe's absolutely nothing for me.
Looks..... lumpy.
I'm trying to make the case for this in my head but I can't. GT350 costs less and does more. RC-F costs the same but will have better dealership experience, and has a God-fearing rip snorting naturally aspirated V8. OK both are bigger, but I doubt this or the Z4 will outhandle the GT350. Boxster/Cayman sound like ass but will probably run circles around this thing and are available with 3 pedals. Does Alfa still make the 4C?
It bums me out because cars like this have to be phenomenal to justify their existence. The dynamic/fun baseline set by hatchbacks and sedans is super high.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 29, 2018, 09:52:13 AM
With a BMW engine?
I admit, it doe's absolutely nothing for me.
Ditto! This car should be a rip snortin Corvette competitor!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 29, 2018, 09:53:14 AM
Looks..... lumpy.
I'm trying to make the case for this in my head but I can't. GT350 costs less and does more. RC-F costs the same but will have better dealership experience, and has a God-fearing rip snorting naturally aspirated V8. OK both are bigger, but I doubt this or the Z4 will outhandle the GT350. Boxster/Cayman sound like ass but will probably run circles around this thing and are available with 3 pedals. Does Alfa still make the 4C?
It bums me out because cars like this have to be phenomenal to justify their existence. The dynamic/fun baseline set by hatchbacks and sedans is super high.
We thought this car was gonna be 40K but it's coming in at 60K!!!!! No way I'd spend that type of coin on it when there's all the cars you mention AND Corvettes and Camaros (Even V6 versions) that have more power and handling to rival cars costing twice as much! SMH!
Looks less offensive than the concept.
Pretty expensive for a Toyota. Must be the BMW engine that drives up the price. :lol:
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 29, 2018, 10:02:47 AM
We thought this car was gonna be 40K but it's coming in at 60K!!!!! No way I'd spend that type of coin on it when there's all the cars you mention AND Corvettes and Camaros (Even V6 versions) that have more power and handling to rival cars costing twice as much! SMH!
C'mon man, you can say it, GT350 :lol:.
As far as bitching about the price...you'd have paid ~40k for a Supra in the year 2000, which is about the same as 60k today... :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 29, 2018, 11:45:24 AM
As far as bitching about the price...you'd have paid ~40k for a Supra in the year 2000, which is about the same as 60k today... :huh:
And that car had 320hp! Roughly the same as my 1999 Z28 and 25 less than a C5 Vette. This new one cost C7 Money with only 335hp while the C7 and current (waaay cheaper) Camaro have 460hp! :nutty:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 29, 2018, 11:02:00 AM
C'mon man, you can say it, GT350 :lol:.
:lol: :cheers:
Quote from: giant_mtb on December 29, 2018, 11:45:24 AM
As far as bitching about the price...you'd have paid ~40k for a Supra in the year 2000, which is about the same as 60k today... :huh:
They discontinued the last Supra in '98 (or at least they stopped selling it in America). '98 was the 6th model year, so it was an old model by then, as well. Also, Toyota drastically slashed prices in the last few years as the car was considered overpriced back then. Back in the early/mid-90s when it came out, ~320 hp was a big deal. That was Corvette territory and more than the pony cars (Mustang GT and F bodies). Today, ~320 hp is about what the 4 or 6 cylinder base pony cars make. The V8s are well into the 400s. As is the Corvette. At only ~330 hp, at $60K, this thing had better be a featherweight. I'm of the mind that Toyota doesn't know how to make a lightweight street car anymore (Lexus RC somehow weighs over 2 tons?!) and BMWs tend to be pretty portly as well. So I think what we're going to end up with here is an expensive, under-powered, overweight personal luxury coupe that will flop spectacularly.
It's not a 2+2 either???
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2018, 03:44:38 PM
They discontinued the last Supra in '98 (or at least they stopped selling it in America). '98 was the 6th model year, so it was an old model by then, as well. Also, Toyota drastically slashed prices in the last few years as the car was considered overpriced back then. Back in the early/mid-90s when it came out, ~320 hp was a big deal. That was Corvette territory and more than the pony cars (Mustang GT and F bodies). Today, ~320 hp is about what the 4 or 6 cylinder base pony cars make. The V8s are well into the 400s. As is the Corvette. At only ~330 hp, at $60K, this thing had better be a featherweight. I'm of the mind that Toyota doesn't know how to make a lightweight street car anymore (Lexus RC somehow weighs over 2 tons?!) and BMWs tend to be pretty portly as well. So I think what we're going to end up with here is an expensive, under-powered, overweight personal luxury coupe that will flop spectacularly.
That's fair.
Toyota already had the blueprint for the Supra....
Take FR-S....
Put 6 cylinder in it. Subaru H6, Camry V6, any 6 cylinder. Add turbos for top trim. Fin
What a disaster.
It needs coilovers ... and some Koni shocks would save about two pounds and give it for better traction for the hole shot. I should probably be going to MIT or something.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 29, 2018, 08:01:08 AM
:confused:
That 3/4 view is hideous.
I was trying to be nice.
Quote from: MX793 on December 29, 2018, 03:44:38 PM
They discontinued the last Supra in '98 (or at least they stopped selling it in America). '98 was the 6th model year, so it was an old model by then, as well. Also, Toyota drastically slashed prices in the last few years as the car was considered overpriced back then. Back in the early/mid-90s when it came out, ~320 hp was a big deal. That was Corvette territory and more than the pony cars (Mustang GT and F bodies). Today, ~320 hp is about what the 4 or 6 cylinder base pony cars make. The V8s are well into the 400s. As is the Corvette. At only ~330 hp, at $60K, this thing had better be a featherweight. I'm of the mind that Toyota doesn't know how to make a lightweight street car anymore (Lexus RC somehow weighs over 2 tons?!) and BMWs tend to be pretty portly as well. So I think what we're going to end up with here is an expensive, under-powered, overweight personal luxury coupe that will flop spectacularly.
The 4th gen Supra was a bit of an anomaly - this new Supra is in the spirit of the previous generations, particularly 1 and 2.
Lexus RC (and LC500) are luxo GTs, which are by definition heavy.
I'm pretty sure Toyota knows that "sports cars" have long since fallen out of favor. I suspect this is just a halo Hail Mary a la LF-A - sales results I'm guess likely irrelevant.
The German motor is what totally kills it for me.
You can't have a halo car that you don't make the engine for. That's just an advertisement for another company's work.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2018, 12:48:05 AM
The 4th gen Supra was a bit of an anomaly - this new Supra is in the spirit of the previous generations, particularly 1 and 2.
Lexus RC (and LC500) are luxo GTs, which are by definition heavy.
I'm pretty sure Toyota knows that "sports cars" have long since fallen out of favor. I suspect this is just a halo Hail Mary a la LF-A - sales results I'm guess likely irrelevant.
The German motor is what totally kills it for me.
Halo cars, a la the LFA, should have eyebrow raising numbers or otherwise tickle the fancy of enthusiasts. There's nothing Halo about a car using somebody else's engine that boasts ho-hum stats. Toyota's own, naturally aspirated V6 from the Camry makes nearly as much power. Unless it was some featherweight, mid-engine affair, nobody would consider a Camry-powered Supra to be much of a Halo car, either. Why on Earth would someone pay $60K for a slushy-only, 335 hp Toyota coupe when for a little ($5k) more, they could get a Lexus RC-F. The L badge gets you a better dealership experience, more curb appeal, and you get a rip-roaring NA V8 that sounds and feels far more special than any motor BMW makes and belts out 125 more horsepower? Or save yourself a big pile of money (like $15k) and get the RC350, which still gets the Lexus dealer experience, brand cache, and a >300hp motor. Yeah, I'm sure it will be a bit slower than the new Supra, but it's A LOT less money.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 30, 2018, 06:00:39 AM
You can't have a halo car that you don't make the engine for. That's just an advertisement for another company's work.
And Toyota makes better engines than BMW
Whole thing is truly bizarre
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 30, 2018, 11:20:36 AM
And Toyota makes better engines than BMW
Whole thing is truly bizarre
Better how?
A $60k Supra is most absolutely a halo car - there's no business case for it, so why do it? If it wasn't called a "Supra" it would never be done.
But mos def Toyota makes a better motor than BMW.
Quote from: MX793 on December 30, 2018, 08:34:56 AM
nobody would consider a Camry-powered Supra to be much of a Halo car, either.
If it were tuned for performance, I don't think anyone would care outside of a bunch of internet people who'd never buy one anyway. We've had successful "Silverado-powered" Corvettes, "Ranger-powered" Mustangs, and "Celica-powered" Lotus Elises.
Quote from: GoCougs on December 30, 2018, 01:08:17 PM
A $60k Supra is most absolutely a halo car - there's no business case for it, so why do it? If it wasn't called a "Supra" it would never be done.
But mos def Toyota makes a better motor than BMW.
But do they make a straight 6?
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 30, 2018, 02:28:00 PM
But do they make a straight 6?
Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)
Quote from: BimmerM3 on December 30, 2018, 01:37:55 PM
If it were tuned for performance, I don't think anyone would care outside of a bunch of internet people who'd never buy one anyway. We've had successful "Silverado-powered" Corvettes, "Ranger-powered" Mustangs, and "Celica-powered" Lotus Elises.
Thing is, the Supra's legacy is based on performance variations of the corporate I6, which is/was keeping in line with what other full-line manufacturers do/did as noted.
This is a fanboy halo car, and my bet is Supraphiles would much prefer a ~400 hp twin turbo version of the corporate Toyota 3.5L V6 over the planned ~380 hp turbo BMW I6.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 30, 2018, 03:03:57 PM
Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)
They could use the 5.7 from the Tundra, or the Lexus 5.0, or turbo/supercharge the 3.5V6 (a la the Lotus Evora). All would have more character, and more performance, than the 335 hp BMW motor.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 30, 2018, 02:28:00 PM
But do they make a straight 6?
Toyota might still for some Japanese-market vehicles, but by and large Toyota dumped the I6 years ago...
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 30, 2018, 03:03:57 PM
Seems like that would be a weird point to get hung on. Toyota ditched their other straight sixes too years ago; and how many would really object to a 5.7 liter V8 Supra anyways? (an existing Toyota engine)
I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 30, 2018, 03:37:11 PM
I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.
A Toyota I6, yes. However, if one was given a choice between a Toyota V8/V6 or a non-Toyota I6, which would be more important in your Toyota Sports Car, heritage wise?
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 30, 2018, 02:28:00 PM
But do they make a straight 6?
I think the diesel Land Cruiser...
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 30, 2018, 03:41:53 PM
A Toyota I6, yes. However, if one was given a choice between a Toyota V8/V6 or a non-Toyota I6, which would be more important in your Toyota Sports Car, heritage wise?
That they're sharing the platform with BMW Z4, I suppose it wouldn't really matter much, other than an I6 with, maybe, a Toyota badge.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 30, 2018, 03:37:11 PM
I would think that they would want to maintain the heritage of the original Supra with an I6.
Nah... Nissan ditched the I6 in the Z and the sun came up the next morning
If the Camry V6 is good enough for 6 figure Lotuses it's good enough for a Supra.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on December 31, 2018, 05:47:00 PM
Nah... Nissan ditched the I6 in the Z and the sun came up the next morning
If the Camry V6 is good enough for 6 figure Lotuses it's good enough for a Supra.
Yeah, but Supra without an I6 would be like Mustang without a V8.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 06:40:02 PM
Yeah, but Supra without an I6 would be like Mustang without a V8.
So a Supra with a BMW engine would be like a Mustang with a small block Chevy.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 07:09:00 PM
So a Supra with a BMW engine would be like a Mustang with a small block Chevy.
Nah, BMW makes a good engine.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 07:12:21 PM
Nah, BMW makes a good engine.
As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 07:21:12 PM
As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.
Not Chevy. Oldsmobile for a time, maybe Pontiac.
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 07:12:21 PM
Nah, BMW makes a good engine.
:facepalm: I see more Fox Bodies with LS Swaps than 5.0s........ :huh:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 07:21:12 PM
As does Chevy. For most of its history, a better one than the Ford.
:cheers:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 07:58:38 PM
Not Chevy. Oldsmobile for a time, maybe Pontiac.
Not the 307 or 305, which admittedly would be a more fair comparison by displacment alone, but the 327 and 350, which were the sports engines in the competitors. Just compare them side by side, year by year to the 302.
(The big block Mustangs for the most part are an exception here)
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 31, 2018, 08:02:01 PM
:facepalm: I see more Fox Bodies with LS Swaps than 5.0s........ :huh:
:cheers:
A Chevy fan whose Camaro body kept falling apart? :huh:
:cheers:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 08:19:44 PM
Not the 307 or 305, which admittedly would be a more fair comparison by displacment alone, but the 327 and 350, which were the sports engines in the competitors. Just compare them side by side, year by year to the 302.
(The big block Mustangs for the most part are an exception here)
Anything after the '70s isn't worth comparing, but they both made some pretty stout engines in the '60s. The best comparison I think, is the '69/'70 Boss 302 vs Camaro Z/28l engines. They're about the closest Ford and Chevy ever made, but the Boss 302 always had the edge.
As well, being a big race fan in that era, Ford had some of the most competitive engines in pretty much every racing series world-wide.
What can I say, I'm a Ford Racing fan. :huh:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 08:25:48 PM
A Chevy fan whose Camaro body kept falling apart? :huh:
:cheers:
And I also owned a 5.0 that caught fire for no reason! :huh: :winkguy:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 08:34:43 PM
Anything after the '70s isn't worth comparing, but they both made some pretty stout engines in the '60s. The best comparison I think, is the '69/'70 Boss 302 vs Camaro Z/28l engines. They're about the closest Ford and Chevy ever made, but the Boss 302 always had the edge.
As well, being a big race fan in that era, Ford had some of the most competitive engines in pretty much every racing series world-wide.
What can I say, I'm a Ford Racing fan. :huh:
The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 31, 2018, 08:44:33 PM
And I also owned a 5.0 that caught fire for no reason! :huh: :winkguy:
Okay, so my brothers and I bought a '51 Chevy as our first car with the old stovebolt six. First time we took it out on the expressway, it threw a rod. We had it rebuilt, took it out again on the expressway and it threw a rod again. After that, it was all shoebox Fords and Mercurys, till the '60s, that is. Couldn't beat the old flat head V8s of that era.
:ohyeah:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 08:45:59 PM
The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.
:hesaid:
Quote from: FoMoJo on December 31, 2018, 08:53:58 PM
Okay, so my brothers and I bought a '51 Chevy as our first car with the old stovebolt six. First time we took it out on the expressway, it threw a rod. We had it rebuilt, took it out again on the expressway and it threw a rod again. After that, it was all shoebox Fords and Mercurys, till the '60s, that is. Couldn't beat the old flat head V8s of that era.
:ohyeah:
:huh: Did you Ford guys remember to put oil in it? :cheers:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on December 31, 2018, 08:45:59 PM
The Boss 302 and other special Mustangs were indeed special, but the normal, cooking grade V8 Mustangs are what I'm talking about, and in general, the "normal" engines were a bit outclassed.
I had a 289 in my '66 Mustang that I bought new; my first new car. I had it for 4 years and it was perfect. With the thin-wall casting and higher nickel content in the steel, they were lighter and stronger and more compact than the competition. The Chevy Small Block had a lot of variations. Some were better than others; as you say, the 327.
Quote from: Gotta-Qik-C6 on December 31, 2018, 09:02:23 PM
:hesaid:
:huh: Did you Ford guys remember to put oil in it? :cheers:
Every time we took it out we had to put oil in it :lol:. We were Chevy guys back then, for a little while.
So...I've been reading BMW M2 Competition reviews. Is that going to be the much better choice?
I can't believe this is going to lag that far behind the M2 Comp and cost more. I'm guessing this will come in much cheaper than everyone is guessing.
Quote from: MrH on December 31, 2018, 09:32:35 PM
So...I've been reading BMW M2 Competition reviews. Is that going to be the much better choice?
I can't believe this is going to lag that far behind the M2 Comp and cost more. I'm guessing this will come in much cheaper than everyone is guessing.
Well, according to https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a22748926/2019-bmw-z4-roadster-30i-m40i/
QuoteUPDATE 12/12/18: Z4 pricing starts at $50,695 for the four-cylinder sDrive30i model and $64,695 for the six-cylinder M40i model.
How different are the two cars? Is it realistic to expect the Toyota to be more than $5k cheaper than the BMW?
With the bigger engine? I'm gonna say no
I still don't understand. Toyota has a RWD platform and good engines.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2019, 06:32:23 AM
With the bigger engine? I'm gonna say no
I still don't understand. Toyota has a RWD platform and good engines.
That may be true, but they're every unenthusiasts go to vehicle. It's all about marketing and shared cost.
Quote from: MrH on December 31, 2018, 09:32:35 PM
So...I've been reading BMW M2 Competition reviews. Is that going to be the much better choice?
I can't believe this is going to lag that far behind the M2 Comp and cost more. I'm guessing this will come in much cheaper than everyone is guessing.
You're forgetting the convertible tax.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2019, 06:32:23 AM
With the bigger engine? I'm gonna say no
I still don't understand. Toyota has a RWD platform and good engines.
Gt86 platform can't handle that kind of power. Also can't fit a V8. Hood line is crazy low in that car. Basically the only thing that fits is a flat 4
Quote from: MrH on January 01, 2019, 10:26:29 AM
Gt86 platform can't handle that kind of power. Also can't fit a V8. Hood line is crazy low in that car. Basically the only thing that fits is a flat 4
They could use the IS platform. They just made a new V6TT too
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 01, 2019, 10:41:14 AM
They could use the IS platform. They just made a new V6TT too
That platform is old and getting replaced. V6TT makes sense if they did the vehicle on their own.
Busy body
(https://i.imgur.com/5UgvXK4.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4QnYhvL.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/siSeP40.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/KTEJ35W.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bYRf4m0.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/JKO1qUF.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/607taiv.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/X87c4ae.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/OifZM1H.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/VH5WoDH.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/cYCl0aQ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/eCDOATR.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Vq5qFAe.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4agKoYZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FEekQAc.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/CmImxJE.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/9iyBfAj.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/iwAzJ7z.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/urs0mw7.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/FNoAiPY.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/ZYKzyTZ.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/3MRcv8B.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/Jqak4wV.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/knwpmtS.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/YPWhmps.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/kosNM6u.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/4nHsZTo.jpg)
(https://i.imgur.com/bgEPbki.jpg)
The Z4 has BAD proportions, and this makes it look worse.
The surfacing doesn't feel Toyota like; modern Toyotas have a lot of hard edges and shit, the way all these surfaces come together looks odd. And bad.
Wow...bmw switchgear and everything too?
Busy, but restrained by modern Toyota standards. I don't hate it. I love the shape, but not the details.
Anyone notice the MFD by ... on the door jamb plate?
Quote from: Rockraven on January 13, 2019, 08:16:57 PM
Anyone notice the MFD by ... on the door jamb plate?
BMW, no shit?
Big YAWN
That Duck Tail looks terrible!
Eh, although it looks like a pulled up shirt collar, I ain't mad at it. Any spoiler looks better than a wing. The previous Supra looks so much better with that ridiculous St. Louis Arch pulled off the trunk and replaced with a spoiler.
Isn't the grab handle supposed to be on the other side of the console? LOL
Also, that door jamb made by BMW mentioned earlier is another LOL
It is really weird that Toyota has all these partnerships. They are more than capable of designing and making the iA/BRZ/this on their own. But I guess their partners can use the extra volume. In any case this thing seems to repeat rather than fix the mistakes of the last Supra, while adding some more of its own. Very very strange.
I just don't see the logic in Toyota, who's manufacturing has been shameslessly copied across the globe and has serious engineers of their own capable of making fast cars, contracting this thing out to BMW.
Especially when the biggest reason to buy one of these would be because "Supra" is a nameplate held in reverence by Toyota fanboys.
I really like the exterior.
The interior...is straight BMW. I'm shocked honestly. That's way more blatant than I expected.
Quote from: Rich on January 14, 2019, 05:24:37 AM
Isn't the grab handle supposed to be on the other side of the console? LOL
Also, that door jamb made by BMW mentioned earlier is another LOL
The entire center console looks like it was designed for RHD.
Maybe they just photoshopped the wheel on the left.
Any idea when official specs (power, weight, etc) will be released?
Wait. So this thing is $50k to start is what it sounds like? And the premium version is $55k?
$55k - 3400 lbs, 335 hp, 8 speed auto
Or you can get an M2 Competition
$58k - 3600 lbs, 405 hp, better equipped, and a 6-speed manual
:hmm: Who is supposed to buy this exactly?
I like the way it looks, but I just don't see the point. I'd go for an M2 competition over this if I wanted a RWD I6 coupe. Really, I'd go for a Boxster over it.
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:26:44 AM
Wait. So this thing is $50k to start is what it sounds like? And the premium version is $55k?
$55k - 3400 lbs, 335 hp, 8 speed auto
Or you can get an M2 Competition
$58k - 3600 lbs, 405 hp, better equipped, and a 6-speed manual
:hmm: Who is supposed to buy this exactly?
+ a backseat.
I think the corvette is around this price, as well as the GT350, ZL1, maybe even the 718 Cayman
Quote from: MrH on January 14, 2019, 08:26:44 AM
Wait. So this thing is $50k to start is what it sounds like? And the premium version is $55k?
$55k - 3400 lbs, 335 hp, 8 speed auto
Or you can get an M2 Competition
$58k - 3600 lbs, 405 hp, better equipped, and a 6-speed manual
:hmm: Who is supposed to buy this exactly?
Supra fanbois.
I can see why Toyota did it. You get a fun car with more power that the 86 buyer could upgrade to at bargain basement investment.
If it doesn't sell, no skin off Toyota's back.
Quote from: Rich on January 14, 2019, 08:30:04 AM
+ a backseat.
I think the corvette is around this price, as well as the GT350, ZL1, maybe even the 718 Cayman
Yeah, I think a Corvette or Boxster/Cayman is a better choice. Top-end Mustang or Camaro if you are ok with a bigger car.
Quote from: Rich on January 14, 2019, 08:31:50 AM
I can see why Toyota did it. You get a fun car with more power that the 86 buyer could upgrade to at bargain basement investment.
If it doesn't sell, no skin off Toyota's back.
I also find it interesting they chose Detroit to unveil it. Not LA, Tokyo, Geneva. Could have been a timing thing, an agreement with BMW, or a message to the Detroit 3
It looks good IMHO. I don't see myself buying this type of car myself but I can see the draw.
I wonder how much maintenance for a Supra at a Toyota dealership will cost compared to the Z4 at a BMW dealership. :lol:
On the exterior, I think the back looks pretty good. The ducktail looks odd at certain angles, but I like the idea of it. What I don't like are the headlights. It looks like they're throwing back to the last Supra, but it makes it look like a late 2000s retro throwback instead of a 2020 design.
The headlights look like they have long tear ducts.
3200lbs base I've read. 97" wheelbase and lower cg than the 86 twins. IDK I guess you're getting a weird looking Z4 coupe without the badge, but all the quality and expensive maintenance
The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Whoever brought up the price point competitors makes a very good point. Supra... or GT350, 718 Cayman, Corvette Stingray, M2 Comp.... like when a Porsche is a better value proposition you dun goofed
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Whoever brought up the price point competitors makes a very good point. Supra... or GT350, 718 Cayman, Corvette Stingray, M2 Comp.... like when a Porsche is a better value proposition you dun goofed
If you want a Z4, but find it horribly proportioned, then you can get a Supra with better proportions but weird details and a worse badge.
Take that case study Harvard Business School!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Whoever brought up the price point competitors makes a very good point. Supra... or GT350, 718 Cayman, Corvette Stingray, M2 Comp.... like when a Porsche is a better value proposition you dun goofed
I'd be surprised if the Cayman is really a better value proposition once you factor in maintenance costs and depreciation, even considering BMW internals.
I bet this ends up holding it's value way better than the Z4 just because of the Toyota and Supra badges.
Quote from: Submariner on January 14, 2019, 10:45:25 AM
If you want a Z4, but find it horribly proportioned, then you can get a Supra with better proportions but weird details.
Take that case study Harvard Business School!
If you want a Z4, you probably want it at least in part because it's a convertible, so I don't think the Supra is a suitable alternative.
This is the result of spending 5 years fucking up a great concept car.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2019, 10:41:09 AM
The more I think about it the less sense it makes. Whoever brought up the price point competitors makes a very good point. Supra... or GT350, 718 Cayman, Corvette Stingray, M2 Comp.... like when a Porsche is a better value proposition you dun goofed
I feel that there's like one executive in the Toyota board room who keeps lobbying for sports cars, but nobody else wants to commit any design resources for it, and the best he can get them to agree to is rebadging other company's vehicles.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 14, 2019, 10:47:48 AM
I'd be surprised if the Cayman is really a better value proposition once you factor in maintenance costs and depreciation, even considering BMW internals.
I bet this ends up holding it's value way better than the Z4 just because of the Toyota and Supra badges.
The only Supras that have held their values are the MkIV. This is because the engine in those was known to have huge running potential because the bottom end was so overbuilt. I really don't see the JDM tuner crowd getting 800+ hp out of the BMW engine.
Until Toyota finds a way to dump the 5.0 RCF engine in this thing, the car has no real reason to exist or competitive advantage. Let's not kid ourselves, the Supra's legacy is built off of its engine.
This car looks so bad.
Quote from: MX793 on January 14, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
The only Supras that have held their values are the MkIV. This is because the engine in those was known to have huge running potential because the bottom end was so overbuilt. I really don't see the JDM tuner crowd getting 800+ hp out of the BMW engine.
"Toyota" vs "BMW" alone is probably enough to change people's perceptions on resale. People are stupid.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 14, 2019, 11:42:20 AM
I feel that there's like one executive in the Toyota board room who keeps lobbying for sports cars, but nobody else wants to commit any design resources for it, and the best he can get them to agree to is rebadging other company's vehicles.
That guy is their CEO, Akio Toyoda. He's the guy behind the "aggressive" new Camry & Avalon. He wants Toyotas to be fun again.
Problem of course is in execution. But I'd rather this than the domestic way, which is to have all the best and brightest home ship engineers tied up in a small volume "passion" project while the rest of the lineup whithers on the vine. I think a strong case could be made for this happening at Ford and GM with the GT and Corvette Zora....... and to a degree maybe even the Mustang and Camaro. If this thing bombs it's no financial sweat off Toyota's back. But again if you're not gonna do the Supra name right, why bother at all?
Quote from: MX793 on January 14, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
The only Supras that have held their values are the MkIV. This is because the engine in those was known to have huge running potential because the bottom end was so overbuilt. I really don't see the JDM tuner crowd getting 800+ hp out of the BMW engine.
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/?adtypeFacet=Vehicles+for+Sale&makeFacet=Toyota&modelFacet%5B%5D=Supra&range_zip=&distance=&price_min=&price_max=&year_min=&year_max=&categoryFacet=&country=&q=
Some of the older ones are looking like they're on the rise.
I think I'd even be ok if they made this car a 2+2. That would give it more distance between it and the Z4.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2019, 01:15:16 PM
That guy is their CEO, Akio Toyoda. He's the guy behind the "aggressive" new Camry & Avalon. He wants Toyotas to be fun again.
Problem of course is in execution. But I'd rather this than the domestic way, which is to have all the best and brightest home ship engineers tied up in a small volume "passion" project while the rest of the lineup whithers on the vine. I think a strong case could be made for this happening at Ford and GM with the GT and Corvette Zora....... and to a degree maybe even the Mustang and Camaro. If this thing bombs it's no financial sweat off Toyota's back. But again if you're not gonna do the Supra name right, why bother at all?
I think the potential damage is "Toyota is willing to pass off rebadged Subarus and BMW as their own." The 86 got away with it largely because it started life as a Scion, and didn't directly reuse an older badge.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 14, 2019, 01:56:02 PM
I think the potential damage is "Toyota is willing to pass off rebadged Subarus and BMW as their own." The 86 got away with it largely because it started life as a Scion, and didn't directly reuse an older badge.
Maybe, but I like to think that the buyers of the Zupr4, Toyobaru, and Fiata know these are collaboration cars and are more than okay with that, because they know in this day and age it's the only way for them to exist at all.
The Toyobaru and Fiata got a pass because they are compelling options at their price points. For $30K, if you don't want a 3600lb pony car, they are basically it. And they are good.
This at $50-60K............................. good luck :ohyeah: Even at $40K I think it would have had the 370Z's problem.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 14, 2019, 01:00:57 PM
Until Toyota finds a way to dump the 5.0 RCF engine in this thing, the car has no real reason to exist or competitive advantage. Let's not kid ourselves, the Supra's legacy is built off of its engine.
2JZ engine, no shit.
I don't know why Renault didn't collaborate with Nissan with the Alpine a110, giving us a new Z car (180Z?). With production costs driven down by volume, a 2432 lb Nissan Z in the mid-30K range would have been awesome. An Alpine for NA markets. Even better, if Nissan used their own 2.4l engine in the 275-300hp range. Rebirth of the 240Z.
Quote from: MX793 on January 14, 2019, 12:16:54 PM
The only Supras that have held their values are the MkIV. This is because the engine in those was known to have huge running potential because the bottom end was so overbuilt. I really don't see the JDM tuner crowd getting 800+ hp out of the BMW engine.
Yeah, this ain't no ten second car. Maybe a ten minute car.
Why does it not even have the power of the z4? Good grief this is a waste of a badge revival
Oh wait... It has wireless Apple Carplay. So all should now be forgiven!
https://www.macrumors.com/2019/01/14/2020-toyota-supra-wireless-carplay/
:lol:
(https://i.imgur.com/zXc3oYq.png)
Quote from: r0tor on January 14, 2019, 02:46:31 PM
Why does it not even have the power of the z4? Good grief this is a waste of a badge revival
Last year's engines?
I think it's ugly. I also think it's overpriced. And it's not even a Toyota.
I know the mechanics won't be looking forward to them. When you work at a dealership you do so because you like or at the very least are good at working on that brand of car. You do not enjoy working on other brands.
Quote from: r0tor on January 14, 2019, 02:46:31 PM
Why does it not even have the power of the z4? Good grief this is a waste of a badge revival
Why would BMW make the Toyota faster than their own vehicle?
Quote from: Onslaught on January 14, 2019, 03:12:56 PM
I think it's ugly. I also think it's overpriced. And it's not even a Toyota.
I know the mechanics won't be looking forward to them. When you work at a dealership you do so because you like or at the very least are good at working on that brand of car. You do not enjoy working on other brands.
Yeah, I'm sure this thing doesn't use any of the common Toyota parts like filters, which means the dealerships are going to have to stock some Supra-exclusive consumables. BMW is also notorious for requiring proprietary tools. I remember a former college professor going on a rant because the battery on his X5 was buried under a cover in the cargo area and required some kind of special wrench to open the compartment. Hopefully Toyota was at least able to use their own SW in the engine control so techs can plug in using existing tools if they need to do stuff like reset oil life monitors and whatnot.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 14, 2019, 01:26:42 PM
https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/?adtypeFacet=Vehicles+for+Sale&makeFacet=Toyota&modelFacet%5B%5D=Supra&range_zip=&distance=&price_min=&price_max=&year_min=&year_max=&categoryFacet=&country=&q=
Some of the older ones are looking like they're on the rise.
Still far from the MkIVs. When you've got MKII and IIIs going for ~12-15K and MkIVs going for 4-10x that despite only being a couple of years newer...
Quote from: r0tor on January 14, 2019, 02:46:31 PM
Why does it not even have the power of the z4? Good grief this is a waste of a badge revival
The last successful Japanese badge revival was the Z.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 14, 2019, 04:53:35 PM
The last successful Japanese badge revival was the Z.
Because Nissan wisely priced it competitively with the Mustang GT which, until the 5.0 hit in '11, was a comparable performer (at best).
The E86 M was around $50k wasn't it? This is basically a new version of that car for the same price? The interior will be better than every competitor mentioned save for the Cayman. I just really don't see a problem with the price. It's a BMW Z4 coupe with a B58 for $50k. Cars are expensive these days.
Quote from: MX793 on January 14, 2019, 08:21:37 AM
The entire center console looks like it was designed for RHD.
Quote from: Rich on January 14, 2019, 05:24:37 AM
Isn't the grab handle supposed to be on the other side of the console? LOL
"FWIW the design intent was to have a narrow, focused driver's cockpit with ample bracing for one's knee in high-G cornering whereas the passenger side was designed to be open and spacious. Interior designers rode along in 86s during the ADAC 24h race at Nurburging to see how the driver interacts the the interior during race conditions."
This is supposedly why the interior is laid out how it is.
The exterior styling is just bizarre. However it does come across as something sporty so I guess it didn't fail in that regard. But honestly it looks like someone took a C-HR, ripped out the rear doors, flattened it, shrunk it and remodeled the headlights and so forth. Bizarre!
The interior design looks Toyotaish, even with the BMW switchgear. Anyone else notice that the infotainment software is also straight out of a BMW?
The first reviews are gonna be interesting. Now's the time to go to a Toyota Forum and check out the reactions there.
Whoa, the new Supra is a bargain! :thumbsup:
That $121,000 Toyota Supra Is Back Up For Sale...For Half A Million Dollars
Remember that pristine 1994 Toyota Supra we told you about earlier this month? It's back up for sale for a staggering $500,000 (£392,835 / €438,737).
Listed by Chicago Northside Toyota, the dealership is asking someone pay a markup of $379,000 (£297,713 / €332,625). That's a huge ask considering the car sold for $121,000 (£95,024 / €106,195) on January 3rd and doesn't suddenly come with a Ferrari stuffed in the truck.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/01/e7fd6f3f-toyota-supra-turbo-07.jpg)
So what explains the massive markup? Apparently the dealer's "market value pricing" philosophy which is plastered on all their used vehicle listings.
According to the dealer, they use "real-time Internet price comparisons to constantly adjust prices to provide ALL BUYERS the ""BEST MARKET VALUE"" vehicle's (sic) possible." That seems a bit dubious as the one of the best ways to judge real-time internet prices might be an online auction, perhaps one where the car sold for $121,000 (£95,024 / €106,195)...
While the listing doesn't show pictures of the Supra, it notes the car is a "recent arrival" and wears VIN JT2JA82J8R0017477. That same VIN was listed on the Bring a Trailer auction, so it means the cars are the same – barring some sort of typo.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/01/2c144c9e-toyota-supra-turbo-15.jpg)
We've reached out to Chicago Northside Toyota to confirm the price is accurate and the Supra is indeed the same one that was sold earlier this month. We haven't heard back, as of yet, but we'll update this post if they respond.
The massive price tag is hard to fathom, but it's possible the dealership simply bought the car to help promote the 2020 Supra and is keeping the price artificially high to dissuade would-be buyers. That remains to be seen, but fans of the new car could buy ten for the price of this particular model.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/121k-toyota-supra-back-sale-500k/
Good for them, hope they get spanked by the market
I see that they're auctioning the first 2020 Supra at Barrett-Jackson as a feature charity car.
Whoever wrote that article needs to (sic) themselves.
I guess someone likes it...First 2020 Toyota Supra Sold for $2.1 Million at Barrett-Jackson (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/first-2020-toyota-supra-price-barrett-jackson-auction/)
Quote from: 68_427 on January 15, 2019, 07:37:02 PM
The E86 M was around $50k wasn't it? This is basically a new version of that car for the same price? The interior will be better than every competitor mentioned save for the Cayman. I just really don't see a problem with the price. It's a BMW Z4 coupe with a B58 for $50k. Cars are expensive these days.
The E85/6 M cars came out 13 years ago. The automotive landscape has changed in that time.
This may turn out to be the best driving BMW available.
:lol:
BMW Zupra: Here's What The New Toyota Supra Looks Like With A BMW Z4 Face
While the BMW Z4 and the all-new Toyota Supra share a common platform, as well as multiple components and even engines, they do look way more different than, let's say, a Subaru BRZ and a Toyota 86 do.
But then again, one (Z4) is a roadster, and the other (Supra), a coupe. So, what would happen if they also shared the same bodystyle?
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/01/a9d950ee-toyota-supra-with-bmw-z4-front-render-1.jpg)
As you know, the new Z4 was first to the table, featuring a wide twin-kidney grille design for the front, large air intakes, sweptback headlights and a dynamically-styled hood. The Supra, on the other hand, has an even more aggressive-looking front fascia, with massive teardrop headlights and flared wheel arches.
BMW didn't really take any massive risks with the profile and rear end design of its latest Z4. The German roadster has sharp yet clean lines, while the L-shaped taillights add more visual width to the rear end, helping the car seem more planted.
Toyota went another way with the Supra, giving it a more distinctive form factor, with powerful rear wheel arches to mirror the front ones and a more "exotic" rear pillar design, if you will. It looks more like a supercar than the BMW Z4, which was probably the plan all along.
But what if someone took the Supra's aggressive rear end and combined it with the Z4's more...PG-13 front fascia? Well, it so happens that someone did, with designer Kleber Silva mixing the two models together to create the BMW Supra, or the Toyota Z4, whichever works for you.
The end result is, let's say interesting, as it makes you think about what a hypothetical BMW Z4 Coupe could look like. Otherwise, the two design languages don't blend as well as one might initially think, which is evident as soon as you look at the rear, the creases on the hood and the shape of the front spoiler.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/01/heres-new-toyota-supra-looks-like-bmw-z4-face/
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on January 20, 2019, 07:22:35 AM
This may turn out to be the best driving BMW available.
And the most reliable. :lol:
Quote from: FoMoJo on January 20, 2019, 06:49:20 AM
I guess someone likes it...First 2020 Toyota Supra Sold for $2.1 Million at Barrett-Jackson (https://www.automobilemag.com/news/first-2020-toyota-supra-price-barrett-jackson-auction/)
Every year some rich bastard looking for a tax write off pays an obnoxious amount of money for something not worth it
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Every year some rich bastard looking for a tax write off pays an obnoxious amount of money for something not worth it
And you get furiously jealous every time lol
Dude at R&T has an idea for the Supra
https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a25949060/new-toyota-supra-should-have-been-suv-crossover/
Quote from: r0tor on January 20, 2019, 08:17:26 AM
Every year some rich bastard looking for a tax write off pays an obnoxious amount of money for something not worth it
Anyone remotely rich enough to pay such a price does not think like this, let alone do this.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 20, 2019, 06:09:49 PM
Anyone remotely rich enough to pay such a price does not think like this, let alone do this.
Every year this happens when someone pays 50-100x sticker price for a charity car
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2019, 02:40:33 PM
Every year this happens when someone pays 50-100x sticker price for a charity car
The tax write off might make it more reasonable than the sale amount, but that doesn't mean they're doing
for the tax write off.
Just to make the math easy, let's say their marginal tax rate is 50%. They're not going to spend $2M at a charity auction just to save $1M in taxes because that still amounts to spending $1M on a car.
They do it because there's perceived value in owning the first of something.
Hmm, well after digesting this a little bit I'm kind of at a loss for words. The interior is okay, a little boring maybe, but the exterior is a mess. The details are just... bad. There's no other word or superlative for it, just 'bad'. The ducktail spoiler looks awful to me, too tall and narrow. The nose isn't a nose so much as a proboscis.
I don't 'get' this car. I don't understand why Toyota would agree to have it made. The Supra should be a halo car for them, something to show off their engineering chops with à la Corvette, but you have nothing to show for when a business partner makes the car for you with their own parts.
It's like a Fiat 124 Spider, but at least a Fiat 124 Spider has a Fiat engine, know what I mean? It's not "just a Miata in drag". A car like this has to be special to really 'work' as a halo car, but this isn't 'special' at all: it's just a BMW in drag.
TL;DR: meh
Quote from: 93JC on January 21, 2019, 05:06:51 PM
Hmm, well after digesting this a little bit I'm kind of at a loss for words. The interior is okay, a little boring maybe, but the exterior is a mess. The details are just... bad. There's no other word or superlative for it, just 'bad'. The ducktail spoiler looks awful to me, too tall and narrow. The nose isn't a nose so much as a proboscis.
I don't 'get' this car. I don't understand why Toyota would agree to have it made. The Supra should be a halo car for them, something to show off their engineering chops with à la Corvette, but you have nothing to show for when a business partner makes the car for you with their own parts.
It's like a Fiat 124 Spider, but at least a Fiat 124 Spider has a Fiat engine, know what I mean? It's not "just a Miata in drag". A car like this has to be special to really 'work' as a halo car, but this isn't 'special' at all: it's just a BMW in drag.
TL;DR: meh
:hesaid:
tl;dr: toyota is fucktarded
I cars like these are the reason I don't give a fuck about cars anymore. This isn't a Toyota, it's a BMW. And this is happening more and more.
Cars cost too fucking much. I hear "with inflation it's the same as the last Supra." Well you know what? It cost too fucking much too. That's why it failed.
RX-7's, Supra, 300Z and the fat ass 3000GT all priced themselves out of their market. I'm not paying this much for a Japanese sports car unless it's an NSX.
Quote from: BimmerM3 on January 21, 2019, 02:53:58 PM
The tax write off might make it more reasonable than the sale amount, but that doesn't mean they're doing for the tax write off.
Just to make the math easy, let's say their marginal tax rate is 50%. They're not going to spend $2M at a charity auction just to save $1M in taxes because that still amounts to spending $1M on a car.
They do it because there's perceived value in owning the first of something.
Barret Jackson charity cars are a politically correct dick measuring contest. Nobody bidding more then 150k thought of it as an investment. They outbid each other to show one another up and then get 50% of the money back.
I'd agree that some might bid to show off, but you don't buy things to save money.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 21, 2019, 06:30:32 PM
I'd agree that some might bid to show off, but you don't buy things to save money.
Typically, they end up in museums.
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2019, 06:24:35 PM
Barret Jackson charity cars are a politically correct dick measuring contest. Nobody bidding more then 150k thought of it as an investment. They outbid each other to show one another up and then get 50% of the money back.
That jealousy again
The Barrett Jackson cars usually have the proceeds go to charity. The money went to the American Heart Association.
WTF is wrong with you all
The charities did really well at Barrett-Jackson, well over $5 million, much going to benefit veterans as well as United Appeal.
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2019, 06:24:35 PM
Barret Jackson charity cars are a politically correct dick measuring contest. Nobody bidding more then 150k thought of it as an investment. They outbid each other to show one another up and then get 50% of the money back.
Which is not "looking for a tax write off." :ohyeah:
Quote from: r0tor on January 21, 2019, 02:40:33 PM
Every year this happens when someone pays 50-100x sticker price for a charity car
Sure, but nobody in their right mind spends money to save money.
At best, they can figure they're not spending quite as much as they would on a non-charity purpose; its like getting a discount on a luxury item.
Sure, you got that watch on sale- that doesn't mean you made money.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 21, 2019, 09:03:28 PM
At best, they can figure they're not spending quite as much as they would on a non-charity purpose; its like getting a discount on a luxury item.
Sure, you got that watch on sale- that doesn't mean you made money.
People spend absurd amounts of money on collectibles, whether paintings, artifacts, etc. There is only one serial number 1. They guy who bought it has a museum in Florida. It will never likely see any road time and remain on display unless someone else wants to pay more for it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_7aTQzpIOI
Saw the new Supra up close. Whoops, I meant Z4. :tounge:
I am 6'4" and found the space in the passenger seat to be a little tight (seat was positioned as far back as possible). Interior materials are good, build quality feels and looks great. It's gonna be a winner.
(https://i.postimg.cc/t4fhS245/BMW-Z4-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rpr5vxdL/BMW-Z4-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/RFxw9hfJ/BMW-Z4-3.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/gcD3FY0r/BMW-Z4-4.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/SN18RDCh/BMW-Z4-5.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qqknhF1k/BMW-Z4-6.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bJ0kvPHC/BMW-Z4-7.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/5ynzwmr8/BMW-Z4-8.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/kXgK7kVs/BMW-Z4-9.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/qv93Xq1D/BMW-Z4-10.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/vmf6PyjY/BMW-Z4-11.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/63K4gSJd/BMW-Z4-12.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/sx6BBgBc/BMW-Z4-13.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bJRShTp4/BMW-Z4-14.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/90FRF7f0/BMW-Z4-15.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pf2vV26w/BMW-Z4-16.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Ght8WGNS/BMW-Z4-17.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Pr7pTNnf/BMW-Z4-18.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/rwtdmcq1/BMW-Z4-19.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/yN4D35Nw/BMW-Z4-20.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jjHLHXwC/BMW-Z4-21.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/wv930mL2/BMW-Z4-22.jpg)
Toyota Supra Engineer Says Model Needs To Evolve, Hints At Entry-Level And Performance Variant
Toyota unveiled the 2020 GR Supra at the North American International Auto Show earlier this year and it appears the company has big plans for the future.
In an interview with Top Gear, Supra chief engineer Tetsuya Tada said the "Supra needs to continue to evolve each year." This likely means we can expect to see a handful of new variants in the future.
While Tada was coy on specifics, he suggested there will eventually be an entry-level model that uses a BMW-sourced four-cylinder engine. The BMW Z4 sDrive30i features a turbocharged 2.0-liter four-cylinder that produces 255 hp (190 kW / 258 PS) and 295 lb-ft (400 Nm) of torque, and it's possible this engine could find its way into the Supra. If it does, we can expect the coupe to accelerate from 0-60 mph (0-96 km/h) in approximately 5.2 seconds.
While the engine is significantly less powerful than the turbocharged 3.0-liter inline six, which produces 335 hp (250 kW / 340 PS) and 365 lb-ft (494 Nm) of torque, Tada suggested the four-cylinder model could be around 220 lbs (110 kg) lighter.
Speaking of lighter models, Tada hinted at a performance variant with more power and a sportier suspension. He suggested the car could follow in the footsteps of the 86 GRMN which was introduced in 2015 with a carbon fiber hood, plexiglass windows and a large rear wing. The model was also had a retuned suspension, a 99 lbs (45 kg) weight reduction and an upgraded four-cylinder engine with 213 hp (159 kW / 216 PS) and 160 lb-ft (217 Nm) of torque.
In other news, Tada suggested a manual transmission remains a possibility and said a targa variant would be more likely than a convertible. Speaking of the latter, Tata said "I've looked at it" but noted some customers aren't fans of targas because of roof storage issues.
Tata also hinted the interior could be updated in the future. While he didn't go into details, the Supra borrows heavily from the BMW parts bin so Toyota might want to change that later down the road.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/03/toyota-supra-engineer-says-model-needs-to-evolve-hints-at-entry-level-and-performance-variant/
Wake me up when Toyota stuffs their 5.0 V8 in this thing, now that will be something worth paying attention to.
At least 2 of them are already getting 2JZ swaps. Toyota should make a trim level that comes with one from the factory
Quote from: Xer0 on March 13, 2019, 10:00:55 AM
Wake me up when Toyota stuffs their 5.0 V8 in this thing, now that will be something worth paying attention to.
Wake you up out of a coma after you crash an understeering pig of a front-heavy Supra 5.0 V8? :lol:
Quote from: CaminoRacer on March 13, 2019, 10:13:35 AM
At least 2 of them are already getting 2JZ swaps. Toyota should make a trim level that comes with one from the factory
Toyota should buy all the remaining 2JZs so I don't have to hear about people swapping them anymore
Tuning community needs some new ideas
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on March 15, 2019, 09:53:07 AM
Toyota should buy all the remaining 2JZs so I don't have to hear about people swapping them anymore
Tuning community needs some new ideas
Like rims and coilovers? :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 15, 2019, 11:28:59 AM
Like rims and coilovers? :lol:
I feel attacked. :lol:
No, what we need are new from Toyota Crate 2JZs.
Yeah if GM can still be cranking out Gen I SBCs, Toyota can crank out some nice 2JZs.
Would they even be able to actually make anymore 2JZs if they wanted to? I imagine all of the tooling is long gone for those things and they'd have to start over. Its not like GM which has been making the small block for pretty much 50 years straight un-interrupted.
Quote from: Xer0 on March 15, 2019, 12:02:51 PM
Would they even be able to actually make anymore 2JZs if they wanted to? I imagine all of the tooling is long gone for those things and they'd have to start over. Its not like GM which has been making the small block for pretty much 50 years straight un-interrupted.
Maybe. A lot of the times, old tooling is leased to a third party to supply replacement parts after production has ended. Toyota tracks everything relentlessly.
Damn, if I had gone back to my Toyota Manufacturing internship for more semesters, I might have an actual answer to this question. The plant I was at didn't decommission any production lines when I was there though.
They made 2JZs in one form or another until 2007. That means they supported parts for it until 2017. Its not unfathomable that most of the tooling is still intact somewhere.
Review embargo lifted and and specs are out. 0-60 in 4.1 sec and starts at $50k. People are liking it. Also, example #23 why it's really no surprise manual transmissions are on the way out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcHmDnI5-Nw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2pLOc1K8mg
Matt Farah's review
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulZDyqW_7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lulZDyqW_7w)
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27456854/2020-toyota-supra-testing-acceleration-zero-to-60/
Seems like decent stats. 3.8 0 to 60 and 12.3 quarter mile. 1.07gs on the skidpad.
Only thing that is lacking is trap speed at 113mph.
I previously thought this car would be a joke but it doesnt seem to be.
Quote from: 565 on May 14, 2019, 06:56:32 PM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27456854/2020-toyota-supra-testing-acceleration-zero-to-60/
Seems like decent stats. 3.8 0 to 60 and 12.3 quarter mile. 1.07gs on the skidpad.
Only thing that is lacking is trap speed at 113mph.
I previously thought this car would be a joke but it doesnt seem to be.
But it's not a 10 second car.
12 second quarter mile.... so it's faster than an 800HP MK4 :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 05:05:29 AM
12 second quarter mile.... so it's faster than an 800HP MK4 :lol:
Everybody knows that there's no difference in 1/4 mile times on mkIVs once you cross the 400hp mark.
12.3 in the quarter mile is quick. Way faster than I thought it would be.
Since the car does it for you, it should be quick.
So driving skill is nothing more than being able to drive stickshift?
I agree that the Supra should have had a 3 pedal option, but the exaggeration of the difficulty of driving stick is annoying.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 07:41:04 AM
So driving skill is nothing more than being able to drive stickshift?
I agree that the Supra should have had a 3 pedal option, but the exaggeration of the difficulty of driving stick is annoying.
At 10/10ths on a track, driving a stick is definitely harder and requires more skill.
Quote from: Rockraven on May 15, 2019, 07:33:57 AM
Since the car does it for you, it should be quick.
Reading C&Ds review, the launch control apparently sucks and getting that blistering time requires some actual work.
Quote from: MX793 on May 15, 2019, 07:59:50 AM
At 10/10ths on a track, driving a stick is definitely harder and requires more skill.
This is a road car, not a race car
If an M2 can get a stick it's ridiculous that this doesn't
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 08:21:51 AM
This is a road car, not a race car
If an M2 can get a stick it's ridiculous that this doesn't
Why does it matter whether it's a road or race car? Driving a stick is more challenging, and the difficulty climbs as you push the vehicle harder.
Quote from: MX793 on May 15, 2019, 08:44:53 AM
Why does it matter whether it's a road or race car? Driving a stick is more challenging, and the difficulty climbs as you push the vehicle harder.
An auto being less challenging <> an auto "doing it for you". Even with launch control you have to keep the car pointed straight.
Spotted a camouflaged Supra today. Might be a special halo version perhaps? Posting the pics later when I am on my PC.
Supposedly Supras for RHD markets will get a manual transmission.
I feel like this car should have been a 2+2.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 15, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
I feel like this car should have been a 2+2.
Have you seen videos of this thing? There's zero room behind the front seats.
Stretching the car would be easy enough, but honestly 2+2s are mostly pointless. I more wish they pushed the wheels further out to the corners; it looks scrunched.
Quote from: MrH on May 15, 2019, 10:29:13 AM
Have you seen videos of this thing? There's zero room behind the front seats.
...then elongate the wheelbase.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 15, 2019, 10:16:29 AM
I feel like this car should have been a 2+2.
Or an SUV. It would sell like crazy. :lol:
Pics as promised.
(https://i.postimg.cc/FHFn7Zhx/TSupra-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/q7zbGvhh/TSupra-2.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Mps3RQTJ/TSupra-3.jpg)
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 10:33:48 AM
Stretching the car would be easy enough, but honestly 2+2s are mostly pointless. I more wish they pushed the wheels further out to the corners; it looks scrunched.
+1. Either make it a proper four seater like my Accord coupe was, or stick with 2.
And again for comparison purposes, two Z4s I saw today. Between the Supra and the Z4, on looks alone I gotta take the Z4.
(https://i.postimg.cc/qBhQmxc1/Spotted-TOD-1.jpg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/jj2yDRZM/Spotted-TOD-13.jpg)
For me, going forward, sports car purchases have to be convertibles. So I'd also go for the Z4 by default.
It's weird that convertibles are dying faster than regular sports cars as they seem like the obvious choice within the sports car realm now, unless you live in Siberia.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 12:20:26 PM
For me, going forward, sports car purchases have to be convertibles. So I'd also go for the Z4 by default.
It's weird that convertibles are dying faster than regular sports cars as they seem like the obvious choice within the sports car realm now, unless you live in Siberia.
It's not a sports car unless it had a snap on soft top with zippered door windows. The Supra is a GT. :popcorn:
Or is that a roadster? Whatever.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on May 15, 2019, 12:27:41 PM
It's not a sports car unless it had a snap on soft top with zippered door windows. The Supra is a GT. :popcorn:
Oh god no do not summon the spirit of Sha "I can read a car's quarter mile time visually" man from C&D
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 10:33:48 AM
Stretching the car would be easy enough, but honestly 2+2s are mostly pointless. I more wish they pushed the wheels further out to the corners; it looks scrunched.
Quote from: 2o6 on May 15, 2019, 10:38:27 AM
...then elongate the wheelbase.
:confused: The whole platform was developed for certain dynamics in mind. They set the wheelbase first. It's actually shorter than the GT86. It's meant to compete with Cayman and is really, really close to it in wheelbase length.
They actually went after a track:wheelbase ratio to get the nimbleness & stability they were looking for.
Quote from: MrH on May 15, 2019, 12:48:57 PM
:confused: The whole platform was developed for certain dynamics in mind. They set the wheelbase first. It's actually shorter than the GT86. It's meant to compete with Cayman and is really, really close to it in wheelbase length.
They actually went after a track:wheelbase ratio to get the nimbleness & stability they were looking for.
No, it needs a longer wheelbase because overhangs aren't fashionable. Also, the wheel gap is too large and the wheels are too small.
I'm saying that being a 2+2 would distance it from the Z4 and be more in line with the old Supras...which were all 2+2 cars.
It would also look better with more wheelbase.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 09:35:52 AM
An auto being less challenging <> an auto "doing it for you". Even with launch control you have to keep the car pointed straight.
You have to keep it pointed straight with a stick, too.
Any neanderthal can mash the go pedal and keep the car pointed in a straight line and get max performance when the car is handling the traction management, shift points, etc. Doing the same when you have to modulate the throttle, pay attention to RPMs and time your shifts, actually execute the shift... Put 3 different drivers in the same MT car on the same day and have them do a 1/4 mile run and you'll see far more scatter in results than in an auto with launch control.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 15, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
No, it needs a longer wheelbase because overhangs aren't fashionable. Also, the wheel gap is too large and the wheels are too small.
That's what coilovers are for.
Well they got what they wanted I guess.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 12:30:09 PM
Oh god no do not summon the spirit of Sha "I can read a car's quarter mile time visually" man from C&D
:evildude:
Quote from: 2o6 on May 15, 2019, 01:02:54 PM
I'm saying that being a 2+2 would distance it from the Z4 and be more in line with the old Supras...which were all 2+2 cars.
It would also look better with more wheelbase.
The Supra has BMW buttons, BMW air vents, a BMW steering wheel, and infotainment system, and under the hood one immediately sees BMW logos all over the engine, and the accessories. You think they would go to the effort of lengthening the platform? This was an effort in making the car with the least amount of money spent.
To be fair, based on the reviews, Toyota has got the suspension better sorted then BMW, and it is quite possibly the best a BMW I6 has ever sounded.
Maybe the turbo ones. The E46 M3 CSL remains king.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 15, 2019, 01:57:13 PM
Maybe the turbo ones. The E46 M3 CSL remains king.
True.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on May 15, 2019, 12:51:08 PM
No, it needs a longer wheelbase because overhangs aren't fashionable. Also, the wheel gap is too large and the wheels are too small.
Sorry, give me dynamics over fashion. I don't think the overhangs or wheel gap are particularly bad either.
Quote from: MrH on May 15, 2019, 02:30:33 PM
Sorry, give me dynamics over fashion. I don't think the overhangs or wheel gap are particularly bad either.
+1. The overall proportions are nice. I think the car looks good when it's moving and it's not a close-up shot. It's all the design details that I think are ugly - faux vents and weird creases all over the place. Styling is pretty low on the priority list when I'm car shopping though, so it's not bad enough that I'd avoid buying it if it were otherwise what I wanted.
I disagree, i think it has the same awful proportions that plague the MB SL. Too short wheelbase coupled with long overhangs.
At the end of the day, I wouldn't buy either so really my opinion doesn't mean shit
The fact that this car exists means I pretty much drive a modern Cressida right
Sooo is it worth $30k more than a 370z?
Chris Harris and Matt Farrah are at odds over this car. It's funny.
A miata is worth $50k more than a 370Z :lol:
Quote from: Rich on May 15, 2019, 02:47:30 PM
Sooo is it worth $30k more than a 370z?
Chris Harris and Matt Farrah are at odds over this car. It's funny.
$30k?
370z starts at $30k and goes up to $47k. Supra starts at $50k and the only other trim (ignoring launch trim) is $54k.
Quote from: MrH on May 15, 2019, 12:48:57 PM
:confused: The whole platform was developed for certain dynamics in mind. They set the wheelbase first. It's actually shorter than the GT86. It's meant to compete with Cayman and is really, really close to it in wheelbase length.
They actually went after a track:wheelbase ratio to get the nimbleness & stability they were looking for.
I'm going to put money on the largish front overhang being more a response to pedestrian safety standards than dynamics.
Quote from: MX793 on May 15, 2019, 03:01:00 PM
I'm going to put money on the largish front overhang being more a response to pedestrian safety standards than dynamics.
The wheelbase is 100% designed for dynamics. The nose might be due to pedestrian safety standards, but we're talking about the wheelbase.
Quote from: MrH on May 15, 2019, 02:30:33 PM
Sorry, give me dynamics over fashion. I don't think the overhangs or wheel gap are particularly bad either.
You, of all people, should be able to recognize that as sarcasm.
From the reviews this seems to be a contender for the best handling BMW out there. Toyota seems to have gotten the suspension tuning very right.
The Supra is posting Boxster/Cayman levels of grip and agility. With a manual, it'd be a no-brainer.
Toyota will be bringing it to Mexico as it's already up on their website. If they price it at base Z4 money it'll be a very attractive option undercutting a base Cayman by 15K or so.
Supposedly the 385hp version is already in production.
So annoying, I was kinda wrong about the new Mazda3 being a disaster and it looks like I'll be kind of wrong about the new Supra being a disaster too. Good thing people don't pay me for my opinions.
Quote from: Xer0 on May 16, 2019, 10:19:41 AM
So annoying, I was kinda wrong about the new Mazda3 being a disaster and it looks like I'll be kind of wrong about the new Supra being a disaster too. Good thing people don't pay me for my opinions.
I'm admittedly eating a bit of crow as well. I didn't have the highest expectations based on the specs, but it sounds like the car may be more than the sum of its spec sheet. Still wish it had an MT option.
I didn't doubt that this thing would be good. I'm just disappointed at how it came to be. But they had some bench racing metrics to hit and they did what they needed to do to hit them. It is what it is.
Europe's 2019 Toyota Supra Detailed In 107 Images
The new Toyota Supra (sorry, GR Supra) has arrived in Europe as well, and the Japanese car maker has released a full gallery of its reborn sports car and all the details.
You already know that the Supra shares its underpinnings with the BMW Z4, with the two models produced at the same factory in Graz, Austria.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/a038ae06-2019-toyota-gr-supra-31.jpg)
Toyota is adamant that despite the common hardware, the new Supra is tuned completely differently than its German cousin and therefore has its own unique personality. As Mike points out in his first drive review, the new Supra manages to combine excellent handling and a comfortable ride, which is arguably a very tough thing to achieve.
Under the clamshell bonnet lies the turbocharged 3.0-liter straight-six unit, producing 335hp (340PS) and 368lb-ft (500Nm) of torque, paired to a ZF eight-speed automatic transmission which remains the only option for Europe that like the U.S., doesn't get Japan's 2.0-lite turbo four.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/b5fc4b52-2019-toyota-gr-supra-57.jpg)
With the kind help of the integrated Launch Control, Toyota claims a 0-62mph (100km/h) in 4.3 seconds and an electronically limited top speed of 155mph (250km/h). An active rear differential operates both during acceleration and deceleration and can go from zero to 100 percent lock instantly.
The new Toyota Supra will be offered in two trim levels in European markets: Active and Premium. Both of them come pretty much fully loaded, with the cheaper Active featuring Adaptive Variable Suspension, 19-inch forged alloy wheels, dual-zone automatic air conditioning system, Adaptive Cruise Control with stop and go, smart entry and push-button start, LED adaptive headlights, an 8.8-inch infotainment system with Apple CarPlay, rain-sensing wipers and black Alcantara power-adjustable sports seats among other.
Premium models add black leather upholstery, a 12-speaker JBL premium sound system, a head-up display, a wireless mobile phone charger and storage and lighting packs.
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/97f4defd-2019-toyota-gr-supra-36.jpg)
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/europes-2019-toyota-supra-detailed-in-107-images/
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/cd973f91-2019-toyota-gr-supra-09.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/e8fdb3f2-2019-toyota-gr-supra-02.jpg)
(https://images.carscoops.com/2019/05/13b1782d-2019-toyota-gr-supra-20.jpg)
The Supra carries bright colors well.
The front is just SO bland.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 16, 2019, 05:16:30 PM
The front is just SO bland.
I like it. It kinda looks like an F1 car.
More pics I see the more I want one. I just couldn't imagine taking this over a Boxster/Cayman
I think it looks bad from every angle.
I'm certain it's great to drive but I hate it looks and how it came to be. There are a lot more straightforward/compelling and equally fun cars in its price range
So, the Z4 has been announced with a manual. The Supra can not be far behind.
Quote from: Galaxy on May 20, 2019, 02:21:52 PM
So, the Z4 has been announced with a manual. The Supra can not be far behind.
With the I6 or just the I4?
Quote from: MX793 on May 20, 2019, 05:50:05 PM
With the I6 or just the I4?
I have no idea but I can make a pretty cynical guess
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a27543113/2020-toyota-supra-dyno-horsepower/
C&D just put the Supra on a dyno and it put down 340hp at the wheels and I guess 400ish crank. Those acceleration numbers make a bit more sense now.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 20, 2019, 06:02:45 PM
I have no idea but I can make a pretty cynical guess
Looks like it's only been announced for the sDrive20i. I assume that's the 4 cylinder.
Quote from: Raza on May 21, 2019, 02:08:43 PM
Looks like it's only been announced for the sDrive20i. I assume that's the 4 cylinder.
Damn, sDrive20i BMWs only make like 200hp. Thats pretty garbage.
Quote from: Raza on May 21, 2019, 02:08:43 PM
Looks like it's only been announced for the sDrive20i. I assume that's the 4 cylinder.
That's what I'm seeing too. We don't even get that one in the states, so I'm not holding my breath for a manual Supra.
Toyota Is Thinking About A Manual Supra But Doesn't Seem Sold On The Idea
Even before the latest-generation Toyota Supra premiered, there has been hopeful talk that a six-speed manual would soon be offered alongside the current eight-speed automatic.
Hopes were heightened last week following confirmation that the entry-level BMW Z4 sDrive20i in Europe with which the Supra shares its underpinnings will come standard with a manual.
While BMW has yet to say whether or not the six-cylinder variants of the Z4 could also get a stick shift, Automobile reached out to Toyota to see whether the release of a manual Z4 also means that a manual Supra is on the agenda.
"We may have heard a time or two (or more) that there's a desire for a manual transmission in the Supra," a Toyota spokesperson said. "However, we're confident in the performance of the current setup . . . We feel it's the optimal combination for the U.S. market at this time and we're anxious for customers to drive the new Supra and experience it for themselves. We'll be sure to check back into the conversation at that time and see what people have to say."
Evidently, Toyota is thinking about offering the new Supra with a manual transmission but it doesn't seem sold on the idea of such a model, at least not in the United States. We imagine that if the Supra does get a six-speed option, this transmission option would initially be rolled out to select markets, perhaps including Japan where Toyota knows the Supra has a strong cult following among hardcore driving enthusiasts.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/05/toyota-is-thinking-about-a-manual-supra-but-doesnt-seem-sold-on-the-idea/
Is the American-market Supra being built here in the US, or are they all being built in Japan? If they're all being built overseas, I feel like they could offer the manual for custom-ordered vehicles and ship 'em over as needed. It's hard enough finding a manual transmission vehicle of any sort on a lot to begin with (especially if you want specific trim/options), so I don't see why they couldn't just do custom orders for them like some people do when they want a specific trim/option with manual. That's what I did for the A4, just took a couple months to get here.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 28, 2019, 08:00:45 AM
Is the American-market Supra being built here in the US, or are they all being built in Japan? If they're all being built overseas, I feel like they could offer the manual for custom-ordered vehicles and ship 'em over as needed. It's hard enough finding a manual transmission vehicle of any sort on a lot to begin with (especially if you want specific trim/options), so I don't see why they couldn't just do custom orders for them like some people do when they want a specific trim/option with manual. That's what I did for the A4, just took a couple months to get here.
They would still need to go through all of the hoops of federalizing that power train configuration (e.g. EPA testing) to offer it even as a special order option.
Quote from: MX793 on May 28, 2019, 08:24:46 AM
They would still need to go through all of the hoops of federalizing that power train configuration (e.g. EPA testing) to offer it even as a special order option.
Blehhhhh.
I'm not sure people would wait for a manual Supra when they could just go get a manual M2/GT350/Corvette/Cayman off a lot either
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2019, 08:40:57 AM
I'm not sure people would wait for a manual Supra when they could just go get a manual M2/GT350/Corvette/Cayman off a lot either
Maybe. But if they're a Supra fan and want a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they'd wait. Not everybody cross-shops. :huh:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2019, 08:40:57 AM
I'm not sure people would wait for a manual Supra when they could just go get a manual M2/GT350/Corvette/Cayman off a lot either
I don't see why not. If someone cares enough about cars to purchase a manual, $50k+, 2-seater, I'm sure they'd be willing to wait a bit to get the car they want.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 28, 2019, 08:46:31 AM
Maybe. But if they're a Supra fan and want a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they'd wait. Not everybody cross-shops. :huh:
If they are a Supra fan that wants a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they will probably get a 4th gen rather than this Z4 coupe :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2019, 10:52:10 AM
If they are a Supra fan that wants a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they will probably get a 4th gen rather than this Z4 coupe :lol:
:lockedup:
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 28, 2019, 08:00:45 AM
Is the American-market Supra being built here in the US, or are they all being built in Japan?
They are all built in Austria.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2019, 10:52:10 AM
If they are a Supra fan that wants a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they will probably get a 4th gen rather than this Z4 coupe :lol:
Who cares? The original Supra didn't sell well at all. This is looking for new buyers and is a pretty sweet alternative to other sports cars in its price range.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 28, 2019, 10:52:10 AM
If they are a Supra fan that wants a Supra and nothing but a Supra, they will probably get a 4th gen rather than this Z4 coupe :lol:
:lol:
Quote from: MexicoCityM3 on May 28, 2019, 02:04:16 PM
Who cares? The original Supra didn't sell well at all. This is looking for new buyers and is a pretty sweet alternative to other sports cars in its price range.
The last Supra was saddled with an extremely high price (like 30% more than a Corvette of its day). 25% more than a 300ZX Twin Turbo of the time. Over 25% more than an M3 (granted, the US market E36 M3 was kind of a dud).
Why is the Supra the "GR Supra" now?
https://www.toyota.com/gr-supra/
It's always been the GR Supra. GR = Gazoo ( :facepalm: ) Racing, Toyota's factory racing operation.
Toyota Supra Vs. BMW Z4 M40i Comparison Tries To Settle The Discussion For Good
Leaving aside discussions or rather, criticism about the Toyota Supra being nothing more than a retuned, rebadged and repackaged BMW Z4, the Japanese coupe has proven to be quite a revelation in reviews — including our own.
But what is the Supra like to drive when compared with its platform sibling, the BMW Z4? The guys from Throttle House wanted to find out and reviewed the two sports cars in detail to see which is the one to have.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvE1GCXcOTs
Obviously, they did not choose any Z4 for the job and went for the range-topping M40i version which uses the same 3.0-liter turbocharged straight-six as the Supra. Despite the difference in power (the North American-market BMW has 47 horsepower more than the Toyota), the cars feel equally agile and fast. Actually, the Supra beat the Z4 in the 0-100 km/h (0-62 mph) tests, albeit by a tiny margin.
The Toyota also has the edge over the BMW when it comes to driver engagement: the exhaust sound is more exciting and loud, and the added stiffness of the coupe body style makes it a bit more agile and lively in corners. The BMW Z4 M40i is more of grand tourer type of vehicle and it does that really well for a roadster. It also has a better, more modern interior — and less claustrophobic too, even with the roof up.
Unfortunately, the video does not feature the two sports car on the track but driving them on public roads was enough for the reviewers to reach an unanimous conclusion. Head over to the video to find out which car is the winner.
Link: https://www.carscoops.com/2019/08/toyota-supra-vs-bmw-z4-m40i-comparison-tries-to-settle-the-discussion-for-good/
Interesting Supra (and Z4 I guess) engine tear down.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MckxlP60cnY
I know the C8 isn't out yet, but I cannot help but think "why either of these cars over the C8?"
Quote from: Submariner on August 14, 2019, 12:13:05 AM
I know the C8 isn't out yet, but I cannot help but think "why either of these cars over the C8?"
The Supra is at least 10K cheaper and physically much smaller. Yeah, the C8 has taken a lot of its thunder as far as hype goes but I don't think it makes it obsolete. Its the higher up cars like the NSX and R8 that I think will hurt even more.
If past pricing history/trends are any indication, the Supra will be at least as expensive, and maybe more than the Corvette up here.
The new Supra is being recalled in the US. The recall letters come from......BMW.
Quote from: Galaxy on September 30, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
The new Supra is being recalled in the US. The recall letters come from......BMW.
:facepalm:
Quote from: Galaxy on September 30, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
The new Supra is being recalled in the US. The recall letters come from......BMW.
It is a BMW after all.
Ironically it best the best BMW on this months C&D
Feel like I'm taking crazy pills.
Quote from: Galaxy on September 30, 2019, 06:36:45 PM
The new Supra is being recalled in the US. The recall letters come from......BMW.
Well yeah, they build it. What's the recall for?
Quote from: Rockraven on September 30, 2019, 08:39:02 PM
Well yeah, they build it. What's the recall for?
Lack of passion
Quote from: r0tor on September 30, 2019, 07:06:33 PM
Ironically it best the best BMW on this months C&D
Sad
Quote from: Rockraven on September 30, 2019, 08:39:02 PM
Well yeah, they build it. What's the recall for?
Welding.
Quote from: Galaxy on September 30, 2019, 09:41:26 PM
Welding.
:devil:
(https://cache.pressmailing.net/thumbnail/story_hires/73e170a5-7547-49d9-9d1d-8d225289f172/Anzeigeninitiative%20Familienunternehmen_Made%20in%20Germany%20Made%20by%20Vielfalt.jpg.jpg)
Quote from: cawimmer430 on October 01, 2019, 04:24:21 PM
:devil:
(https://cache.pressmailing.net/thumbnail/story_hires/73e170a5-7547-49d9-9d1d-8d225289f172/Anzeigeninitiative%20Familienunternehmen_Made%20in%20Germany%20Made%20by%20Vielfalt.jpg.jpg)
Actually it is made by Austrians....
So apparently only 7 cars are affected by badly welded seatbelt mounts, and their entire car is being replaced.
Saw a red one in traffic yesterday. Honestly, the design just isn't working for me and I can't put my finger on why.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on October 02, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Saw a red one in traffic yesterday. Honestly, the design just isn't working for me and I can't put my finger on why.
It's awkward somehow.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on October 02, 2019, 10:37:25 AM
Saw a red one in traffic yesterday. Honestly, the design just isn't working for me and I can't put my finger on why.
Pictures suggest fussy details and not enough wheelbase.
It and the LC couldn't be more different.
I saw a black one at a cars and coffee and thought it looked fantastic in real life.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuiujPC8cmo
Great video by Jason Cammisa for Hagerty. The M2 is the spiritual successor to the MK4 Supra. Also "capability is not joy" :golfclap:
Hagerty's content team is killing it this year.
I personally love the Supra more and more every time I see one on the road. Last week I saw a white one with some old school fast and furious ricing and a hoop wing.... Loved it
Would easily be at the top of my list if I wanted a 2 seater
It's too much of a penis car for me. You can see the superhero spandex bulge in the front.
Quote from: Laconian on January 21, 2021, 07:07:35 PM
It's too much of a penis car for me. You can see the superhero spandex bulge in the front.
OwO
It would be more appealing as a drop-top.
This video is great! Camissa is my BF.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 21, 2021, 11:11:22 AM
Hagerty's content team is killing it this year.
This is like Top Gear in its prime, just without the accents. More Top Gear than Top Gear USA.
Camissa is a bit over the top and childish sometimes, but he's probably one of the top 3 car reviewers out there. It's incredible how nuanced and minor things he can pick up on. He gives great information about how cars actually drive, he actually knows how to verbalize technical things he doesn't like with the car, and has an amazing memory for it all.
I love his instagram reviews. They're short and really to the point.
Yeah Camissa is my current fave to watch, but he did annoy with his Testarossa video, claiming that "everyone thinks the Testarossa was a hyper-exotic, when it's really a GT car", and then gets all preachy why we are all wrong. Dude, some guys today might be mistaking it for an '80s exotic, but us from the '80s knew exactly what it was then and we still know it as a GT car today. GTO and F40 were the hyper-exotics, and the 'Rossa was the GT. We know this. Chill out.
I think his reviews are good, but I loathe the click bait nature imbedded in his work. No Jason, I don't care how smart or nuanced you want to make yourself out to be, nobody would ever consider an M2CS as the successor of the mk4 Supra - and you didn't need to throw that in the title to just draw clicks. Just let your work speak for itself...
https://youtu.be/KTFvq-rkjrw
The white Supra needs to happen
Quote from: Laconian on January 21, 2021, 07:46:14 PM
This video is great! Camissa is my BF.
This is like Top Gear in its prime, just without the accents. More Top Gear than Top Gear USA.
That jump cut @2:43 into the vid is brilliant.