The Official Mustang Thread

[FoMoJo]

Don't you know?  The GT500 needs a prepped surface to perform.  It's not Ford's fault, it's your fault for not having a prepped surface at all times under the car.

And the ZL1 needs fat sticky tires for it's short hops, until the GT500 blasts by it.

[GoCougs]

Does It? 

[FoMoJo]

And where was that time from?

[r0tor]

Decent showing for the GT350


https://youtu.be/y7dwuvVeD3k

[565]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jVLfChZalw

[GoCougs]

And that was a M/T ZL1 to boot. But from a dig (not ET) the GT500 is gonna lose due to that weird ass launch delay. The driver and signaler would have to be in cahoots for a GT500 win.

The GT500 will be quicker if/when the launch control is right, but the launch control is such a mess.

[FoMoJo]

I suspect, on a loose track, that the launch delay is due to lack of grip.  It's pretty obvious that the GT500 is capable of 10s when it can "get a grip."  A set of sticky tires would make a big difference.

[MX793]

I suspect, on a loose track, that the launch delay is due to lack of grip.  It's pretty obvious that the GT500 is capable of 10s when it can "get a grip."  A set of sticky tires would make a big difference.

No, there's something hinky with the way they set up the launch control.  There's a delay from when you lift the brake and when it actually launches.  If you get familiar enough with the car, you could probably compensate for it, but it makes it nigh impossible for the typical journalist who only gets the car for a few days or a week to really get the best out of it.

[Soup DeVille]

No, there's something hinky with the way they set up the launch control.  There's a delay from when you lift the brake and when it actually launches.  If you get familiar enough with the car, you could probably compensate for it, but it makes it nigh impossible for the typical journalist who only gets the car for a few days or a week to really get the best out of it.

A .400 or .500 second delay like one would find in a delay box for bracket racing?

[GoCougs]

I suspect, on a loose track, that the launch delay is due to lack of grip.  It's pretty obvious that the GT500 is capable of 10s when it can "get a grip."  A set of sticky tires would make a big difference.

There's a delay of some sort before the clutches engage - it's not a traction issue, but a delay by design.

A stock GT500 will never run 10s, and shown by virtually an unlimited number of independent tests. Gearing, launch control, traction, weight - it's not gonna happen.

[Raza]

Decent showing for the GT350


https://youtu.be/y7dwuvVeD3k

While the GT500 doesn't interest me one bit, but the GT350 and GT350R are mighty compelling.

[FoMoJo]

There's a delay of some sort before the clutches engage - it's not a traction issue, but a delay by design.

A stock GT500 will never run 10s, and shown by virtually an unlimited number of independent tests. Gearing, launch control, traction, weight - it's not gonna happen.

Of course ignoring/denying that the GT500 has run 10s, several times at real drag strips where times count as well, does not change reality.

Reality is that the GT500 does just about everything better than the ZL1 save for short hops on surfaces where fat sticky tires provide better grip.  That doesn't mean the ZL1 isn't a very competent muscle car.  It's just that Ford has one upped GM with the GT500.

[FoMoJo]

While the GT500 doesn't interest me one bit, but the GT350 and GT350R are mighty compelling.

The GT350 and GT350R are special.

[565]

Of course ignoring/denying that the GT500 has run 10s, several times at real drag strips where times count as well, does not change reality.

Reality is that the GT500 does just about everything better than the ZL1 save for short hops on surfaces where fat sticky tires provide better grip.  That doesn't mean the ZL1 isn't a very competent muscle car.  It's just that Ford has one upped GM with the GT500.

Then why did it lose the only published magazine comparison published so far from the big 3?

https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30540966/2020-ford-mustang-shelby-gt500-vs-2019-chevy-camaro-zl1-1le/

"Unfortunately, the Mustang's steering is numb compared to the Camaro's, and its chassis isn't as sorted. The ZL1 is more stable, and it puts its power down better with its wider rubber, a more sophisticated traction-control system, and an excellent electronic limited-slip differential. Toss it around, and the Shelby feels smaller and lighter than it is, but it's also a bit skittish and less forgiving. It always feels like one false move, one mistake, one miscalculation, and you could easily end up in a ditch."

"Although both cars offer the kind of speed better suited for the track, the Camaro is easier to drive quickly. The fun is more accessible and therefore more easily enjoyed. "

"e Camaro's Recaro seats are even more comfortable than the Mustang's—and the Mustang has outstanding seats—and the driving position is spot on. Despite its significant discount, the ZL1 was also packed with features not found on our Mustang, including navigation, heated and cooled seats, a heated steering wheel, a back seat, power seats, and wireless phone charging."

"There's a lot we love about the GT500—the ride quality, interior design, and its more sophisticated powertrain—but the more affordable ZL1 1LE manages to match or surpass the Shelby's performance while offering a much longer list of features."


The ZL1 beats the GT500 in the thing that matters most to me, driving satisfaction, and it's available with a real man's transmission unlike the GT500.  I don't buy a high performance vehicle for it's ride quality, interior design, and how good the auto is if there is a manual choice.  This GT500 is just like the last one.  Big horsepower that it can't put down and wonky driving dynamics.

[FoMoJo]

Cheaper with fat sticky tires good for short hops.  Not a lot to give the ZL1 the edge.  Ahh, but it has heated and cooled seats.

[SJ_GTI]

Cooled seats for all the butt hurt.

[GoCougs]

Of course ignoring/denying that the GT500 has run 10s, several times at real drag strips where times count as well, does not change reality.

Reality is that the GT500 does just about everything better than the ZL1 save for short hops on surfaces where fat sticky tires provide better grip.  That doesn't mean the ZL1 isn't a very competent muscle car.  It's just that Ford has one upped GM with the GT500.

All the legit tests (i.e., not private, non-filmed Ford events) I can Google show 11.3-11.5 consistently for a stock GT500.

The GT500 has big numbers and hype, but it's simply not the dialed performer the ZL1 is, which has been the GT500's MO since its reintroduction.

[CaminoRacer]

Can the GT500 run 10s with a quick tire change? I don't really care about stock tire tests considering that's the easiest thing to modify and most people get different tires after the stock ones wear out anyway.

[r0tor]

No, there's something hinky with the way they set up the launch control.  There's a delay from when you lift the brake and when it actually launches.  If you get familiar enough with the car, you could probably compensate for it, but it makes it nigh impossible for the typical journalist who only gets the car for a few days or a week to really get the best out of it.

//M cars have the same delay


Also, reaction time (basically what the delay hits) doesn't get counted in an ET on a drag strip

[FoMoJo]

All the legit tests (i.e., not private, non-filmed Ford events) I can Google show 11.3-11.5 consistently for a stock GT500.

The GT500 has big numbers and hype, but it's simply not the dialed performer the ZL1 is, which has been the GT500's MO since its reintroduction.

C & D say "But these are muscle cars, and it's the quarter-mile that really matters."  Even though the GT500 bested the ZL1 in a drag "race", I'll wait for the results at a real drag strip.

In the meantime...https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/a30535279/shelby-gt500-camaro-zl1-challenger-redeye-drag-race/

As confirmed by Edmunds' instrumented testing, the Shelby GT500 was the clear victor, running the quarter-mile in 11.3 seconds. Next came the Camaro, which overcame its significant power deficit and put up an 11.6-second quarter-mile pass. That was a tenth quicker than the Challenger.

All three cars were hampered by traction issues. A non-1LE Camaro ZL1 may have done better on this particular day, as the 1LE comes equipped with aggressive track-day tires that struggled to heat up. And even though the Challenger has wide tires under its embiggened fenders, it still couldn't get all of its 797 horsepower to the ground. Edmunds predicts that on a prepped surface with drag radials, the finishing order of the three would be about the same.

Still making excuses for the Chevy .

[MX793]

Can the GT500 run 10s with a quick tire change? I don't really care about stock tire tests considering that's the easiest thing to modify and most people get different tires after the stock ones wear out anyway.

They'll run 10s on a prepped surface with the OE tires.  I posted a video from some vloggers who got into the 10s at one of Ford's press days at LVMS.

[r0tor]

... Meanwhile a 911s will run a 11.3s quarter mile all day long with a couple hundred less hp...

-yawn-

[MX793]

... Meanwhile a 911s will run a 11.3s quarter mile all day long with a couple hundred less hp...

-yawn-

Meanwhile my bike will do 11 flat all day long with over 300 fewer hp than a 911...

r0t0r shrug

[Eye of the Tiger]

Meanwhile,



atlas shrug

[MX793]

Meanwhile,



atlas shrug

No VTEC stickers?  Lame.

[GoCougs]

... Meanwhile a 911s will run a 11.3s quarter mile all day long with a couple hundred less hp...

-yawn-

C8 runs 11.2

#centimated

[giant_mtb]

My 230cc dirtbike will do 0-60 in like 12 seconds in the woods on a trail that nunna these cars could ever go down. 

[GoCougs]

Another comparo: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30870010/2020-muscle-car-showdown/

First: Camaro ZL1 1LE
2nd: GT500
3rd: Hellcat Redeye

In short, this went down pretty much like the other comparos - the Camaro is the most dialed and best to performance drive yet cheapest, Mustang best daily driver but not dialed and expensive, and the Hellcat is a hot mess of power and fun but ancient and unrefined.

[FoMoJo]

Another comparo: https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison-test/a30870010/2020-muscle-car-showdown/

First: Camaro ZL1 1LE
2nd: GT500
3rd: Hellcat Redeye

In short, this went down pretty much like the other comparos - the Camaro is the most dialed and best to performance drive yet cheapest, Mustang best daily driver but not dialed and expensive, and the Hellcat is a hot mess of power and fun but ancient and unrefined.

Still waiting for some tests on real race tracks.

[GoCougs]

Still waiting for some tests on real race tracks.

Track duties were at Willows, which is as legit track as any. And even if not tested at Willows, how would "real race tracks" affect the results in these camparos? Noted acceleration and track times are roughly equivalent with the Camaro taking the win for noted race/track advantage in better steering, braking, handling, balance, weight and differential (plus it costs less).

And really, they're about tied, if one subtracts out points for goofy stuff like cargo space.

The GT500 is a fine car, Ford just should have focused.