We have a 2005 Chevy Silverado 2500HD (base model) as our raceteam's tow vehicle. Why does it need to be so high off the ground? Other than creating 15 inches of wheel gap (it has 16" wheels), decreasing gas mileage, and making ingress/egress difficult I don't see the point. I know you might want it a little higher in the back for heavy loads, but even with a 3 axle trailer, it doesn't sag that much in the rear. Why the front is so high, I have no idea.
Chevy thinks massive wheel gap is hot? :huh:
Cuz its a truck and not a race car?
Ground clearance?
(http://www.mid-statetruck.com/truck/images/TRUXXX%20FRONT%20END%20LEVELING%20KIT%20w.%20BOSS%20SUPER%20DOTY%20PLOW.jpg)
Pics or ban.
It looks infinitely worse on the long bed models.
Style and spec inflation, I'm sure. Ground clearance is to trucks as horsepower is to cars.
(http://image.automotive.com/f/features/16145996+pheader/0907tr_01_z+2008_chevy_silverado_2500_hd+left_side_angle.jpg)
Oh, NOOOOOoooooo! :rolleyes:
That looks ridiculous. The corners of those wheel arches are going to bang into the tires.
Quote from: Laconian on January 23, 2010, 01:34:11 PM
That looks ridiculous. The corners of those wheel arches are going to bang into the tires.
So you're saying that the wheel arches are, in fact, too small! HA!
Quote from: 2o6 on January 23, 2010, 12:42:17 PM
Ground clearance?
For what? It's worthless offroad and gets stuck very easily. I'd rather drive my Focus offroad.
It looks like this except it's green and has west coast mirrors:
(http://o.aolcdn.com/commerce/images/chevrolet_05silverado2500regularcab_sideview_Large.jpg)
You don't want the front to be dramatically lower then the rear, and you want the rear higher so that when you stick 4000 lbs in the box it's not dragging the bumper on the ground.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 23, 2010, 02:39:07 PM
You don't want the front to be dramatically lower then the rear, and you want the rear higher so that when you stick 4000 lbs in the box it's not dragging the bumper on the ground.
The suspension is so stiff, it doesn't matter.
You can still have sufficient suspension travel without it being ridiculously high in the air.
+ snowplows are mega heavy.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2010, 02:42:47 PM
+ snowplows are mega heavy.
You can't plow with a 2WD truck.
So are the 4WD models significantly lower like you'd like them to be, or what?
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2010, 02:50:18 PM
So are the 4WD models significantly lower like you'd like them to be, or what?
No. The 2WD one should be lower because it would get better gas mileage and be easier to get in and out of.
What does being higher up have to do with gas mileage? I don't think a few inches of ride height for a truck is going to have any real mileage effect at normal speeds. :huh: If anything, it probably experiences more lift when it's higher up, so the truck is actually "lighter" and thus gets better mileage anyways!!!! :lol:
Quote from: NACar on January 23, 2010, 01:31:22 PM
(http://image.automotive.com/f/features/16145996+pheader/0907tr_01_z+2008_chevy_silverado_2500_hd+left_side_angle.jpg)
Oh, NOOOOOoooooo! :rolleyes:
:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/5228/vlcsnap1765457vj3.png)
It's so high because they only build the trucks with one suspension design, the 4x4 suspension.
Think about it: if you built a separate suspension for the 2WD truck, a lower suspension, you'd have to have completely different parts. New springs, new dampers, new control arms, new torsion bars, new driveshaft, blah blah blah, etc. This way they don't have to spend money on designing the new suspension, finding a supplier or a retooling a factory to make the parts, yadda yadda yadda.
Plus, for a cheap, dependable work truck, who really cares? :ohyeah:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 23, 2010, 02:49:36 PM
You can't plow with a 2WD truck.
Yes you can. A full sander out back helps.
Once again, it never ceases to amaze me why people who don't like trucks continue to dwell on their hate for them and feel the need to bitch about it all the time in the Big Guys forum. Yeesh.
Quote from: 93JC on January 23, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
It's so high because they only build the trucks with one suspension design, the 4x4 suspension.
Think about it: if you built a separate suspension for the 2WD truck, a lower suspension, you'd have to have completely different parts. New springs, new dampers, new control arms, new torsion bars, new driveshaft, blah blah blah, etc. This way they don't have to spend money on designing the new suspension, finding a supplier or a retooling a factory to make the parts, yadda yadda yadda.
Yep - economies of scale.
I wonder how much it would decrease the coefficient of drag to lower it down several inches. We run it at 60-70 mph most of the time. One guy told me his gas mileage went up considerably after he lowered his tow rig.
I'm sure it wouldn't be worth the cost, but I'm just curious.
On a side note, better handling would be a nice side benefit of lowering the truck because yes we do drive it on the track. :lol:
I bet someone already makes a bolt-on kit to lower it.
Quote from: 93JC on January 23, 2010, 04:55:43 PM
I bet someone already makes a bolt-on kit to lower it.
Not for the 2500, AFAIK.
:huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2010, 12:58:22 PM
(http://www.mid-statetruck.com/truck/images/TRUXXX%20FRONT%20END%20LEVELING%20KIT%20w.%20BOSS%20SUPER%20DOTY%20PLOW.jpg)
#1 that's a half ton #2 that's a 4x4
I was attempting to give a reason for why the front end is high as well as the back end. Loads do not only go on the back end of a truck. :ohyeah:
I just didn't feel like finding a picture of just a plow (just typed in "front end plow"), and this one happened to be on a Chevy truck, so I picked that one. :lol:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 23, 2010, 06:04:58 PM
I was attempting to give a reason for why the front end is high as well as the back end. Loads do not only go on the back end of a truck. :ohyeah:
I just didn't feel like finding a picture of just a plow (just typed in "front end plow"), and this one happened to be on a Chevy truck, so I picked that one. :lol:
Oh. :lol: Never mind then. :lol:
Get a diesel. :D
Diesel. I concur.
Because it's cheaper to make both 4WD and 2WD models have the same ride height than to have two sets of suspension bits for different ride heights between the two. Besides, you don't need 4WD to be able to take advantage of added ground clearance.
Quote from: 93JC on January 23, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
It's so high because they only build the trucks with one suspension design, the 4x4 suspension.
Think about it: if you built a separate suspension for the 2WD truck, a lower suspension, you'd have to have completely different parts. New springs, new dampers, new control arms, new torsion bars, new driveshaft, blah blah blah, etc. This way they don't have to spend money on designing the new suspension, finding a supplier or a retooling a factory to make the parts, yadda yadda yadda.
Most likely true, though Ford's 2WD Super Duties are definitely much lower then their 4WD counterparts.
Ford isn't money-deprived and living off of government (taxpayer) money. They has better engineering resources! :huh: :lol:
Quote from: 93JC on January 23, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
It's so high because they only build the trucks with one suspension design, the 4x4 suspension.
:hesaid:
I saw a lowered Silverado 1500 yesterday. It looks kinda cool.
Rangers > Silverados
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 11:20:28 AM
Rangers > Silverados
Rangers can't tow 2-car, three axle trailers.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 24, 2010, 11:30:37 AM
Rangers can't tow 2-car, three axle trailers.
Yes they can, as long as they have eight spark plugs.
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 11:31:17 AM
Yes they can, as long as they have eight spark plugs.
8 spark plugs turns 1970's Pinto engine into V8?
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 24, 2010, 12:39:16 PM
8 spark plugs turns 1970's Pinto engine into V8?
:rockon:
For the ultimate poseurs there are 2WD lift kits for pretty much any 2WD truck.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 24, 2010, 02:23:08 PM
For the ultimate poseurs there are 2WD lift kits for pretty much any 2WD truck.
We call those prerunners.
2wd trucks with locking diffs can go most places 4wd trucks can go, and without all that extra drivetrain junk.
Quote from: the Teuton on January 24, 2010, 02:29:59 PM
We call those prerunners.
Prerunners?
(http://i314.photobucket.com/albums/ll437/daculatruck50/F150online4.jpg)
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 02:31:31 PM
2wd trucks with locking diffs can go most places 4wd trucks can go, and without all that extra drivetrain junk.
They can go a lot of places 4x4 trucks can go, but they can't outdo a 4x4.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 24, 2010, 02:34:32 PM
They can go a lot of places 4x4 trucks can go, but they can't outdo a 4x4.
Don't be so obtuse. For example - a one side of a trail is slick mud, or ice, and the other side has good traction, a 4x4 with open diffs will spin both wheels on the slippery side, and possibly get stuck. A 2wd with a locking differential will keep going.
Quote from: the Teuton on January 24, 2010, 11:11:22 AM
I saw a lowered Silverado 1500 yesterday. It looks kinda cool.
I saw a white single cab Silverado with 6ft bed lowered. Would have been hot even without the custom turbo.
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 02:40:10 PM
Don't be so obtuse. For example - a one side of a trail is slick mud, or ice, and the other side has good traction, a 4x4 with open diffs will spin both wheels on the slippery side, and possibly get stuck. A 2wd with a locking differential will keep going.
Never had that problem while off roading. I've been stuck a lot, but not because of the situation you just described.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 24, 2010, 02:47:12 PM
Never had that problem while off roading. I've been stuck a lot, but not because of the situation you just described.
Oh, and because it never happens to you means it never happens. I guess I'm just an idiot.
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 02:40:10 PM
Don't be so obtuse. For example - a one side of a trail is slick mud, or ice, and the other side has good traction, a 4x4 with open diffs will spin both wheels on the slippery side, and possibly get stuck. A 2wd with a locking differential will keep going.
Learned something new: I didn't know that all 4WD cars/trucks didn't have some sort of locking diff.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
Learned something new: I didn't know that all 4WD cars/trucks didn't have some sort of locking diff.
You also learned that I'm an idiot and that you shouldn't learn things just because I said them.
Quote from: 2o6 on January 24, 2010, 02:58:26 PM
Learned something new: I didn't know that all 4WD cars/trucks didn't have some sort of locking diff.
They all have a locking center diff (talking true 4x4s, not AWD), but not all of them have locking or limited slip differentials on the axles themselves.
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 02:48:18 PM
Oh, and because it never happens to you means it never happens. I guess I'm just an idiot.
Well, if you insist. I never said that or insinuated it. I only stated, and politely I might add, that I've never been stuck because of the situation you described. If you want to take it as if I'm insulting you, then go right ahead. Why so touchy?
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 24, 2010, 06:30:09 PM
Well, if you insist. I never said that or insinuated it. I only stated, and politely I might add, that I've never been stuck because of the situation you described. If you want to take it as if I'm insulting you, then go right ahead. Why so touchy?
Ass
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 06:35:16 PM
Ass
Seriously man, what the fuck is your problem lately? You're going after me in every fucking thread.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 24, 2010, 06:49:22 PM
Seriously man, what the fuck is your problem lately? You're going after me in every fucking thread.
You troll, I retroll.
C'mon, kids.
(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/test-area/68007d1240802426-upload-test-dr-phil-fam_midol_max_strength_caple-5300.jpg)
(http://thingsintowhichonemightstickonesfingers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/jello.jpg)
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2010, 07:02:35 PM
(http://thingsintowhichonemightstickonesfingers.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/jello.jpg)
I'm eating Strawberry Jell-O right now!
:partyon:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 24, 2010, 07:05:54 PM
<--- Jealous.
Underage! :pullover:
I'm telling Greg! :heated:
Quote from: Submariner on January 24, 2010, 07:01:01 PM
(http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/test-area/68007d1240802426-upload-test-dr-phil-fam_midol_max_strength_caple-5300.jpg)
I much prefer the phrase "Who lit the fuse on your tampon?"
Quote from: Submariner on January 24, 2010, 07:15:10 PM
Underage! :pullover:
I'm telling Greg! :heated:
:mask: :lockedup: :mask:
Greg wouldn't do that to me. :praise:
Quote from: 93JC on January 23, 2010, 03:09:39 PM
It's so high because they only build the trucks with one suspension design, the 4x4 suspension.
Think about it: if you built a separate suspension for the 2WD truck, a lower suspension, you'd have to have completely different parts. New springs, new dampers, new control arms, new torsion bars, new driveshaft, blah blah blah, etc. This way they don't have to spend money on designing the new suspension, finding a supplier or a retooling a factory to make the parts, yadda yadda yadda.
I's suspect the shock absorbers, and springs/torsion bars would be different on a 2WDwd than it's 4WD counterpart anyway, certainly the rates would likely be different., And the driveshafts are likely different as well. Further, regardless of ride height, there might be enough camber adjustment to compensate for a lower riding 2WD adjustment.
I think they are jacked up like that becase that's what image truck buyer's expect. They want a hulking pickup, not some wimpy one.
Quote from: Byteme on January 25, 2010, 11:08:46 AM
I's suspect the shock absorbers, and springs/torsion bars would be different on a 2WDwd than it's 4WD counterpart anyway, certainly the rates would likely be different., And the driveshafts are likely different as well. Further, regardless of ride height, there might be enough camber adjustment to compensate for a lower riding 2WD adjustment.
I think they are jacked up like that becase that's what image truck buyer's expect. They want a hulking pickup, not some wimpy one.
+1
The 4wds are even higher.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 23, 2010, 02:25:54 PM
For what? It's worthless offroad and gets stuck very easily. I'd rather drive my Focus offroad.
It looks like this except it's green and has west coast mirrors:
(http://o.aolcdn.com/commerce/images/chevrolet_05silverado2500regularcab_sideview_Large.jpg)
On a dry dirt road, a 2WD pick-up is fine, especially with some weight in the back. Around here, in the summer, you don't so much need 4WD as you need high clearance. Honestly, even with a 4WD in the winter (i.e. yesterday, and in a 2500HD 4WD), you don't really
need 4WD more than once in a rare while, unless you get onto some very non-main roads. It makes driving easier (less slippery), but I could have still gone everywhere I did last weekend with 2WD. To me, the idea of a low pick-up of any drive-wheel configuration is pretty silly. Maybe they should make a high- and a low-clearance 2WD.
The real question here is, why are the 4WD 2500HDs so
low? At least on the 2005 generation, the frame rails hang down a good five inches below the body. Both the Ford and Dodge heavy duty trucks have at least another few inches on the Chevy.
Quote from: NACar on January 24, 2010, 02:40:10 PM
Don't be so obtuse. For example - a one side of a trail is slick mud, or ice, and the other side has good traction, a 4x4 with open diffs will spin both wheels on the slippery side, and possibly get stuck. A 2wd with a locking differential will keep going.
Then again, if you go through a mud hole that spans the road, there will be one wheel on a 4WD that has good traction, but the locked 2WD might be spinning both wheels. The solution here is clear: locked 4WD. :lol:
I won't speak for or defend the multitudes of truck buyers that don't need a truck, but high clearance on a 2WD truck is absolutely useful.
Quote from: Psilos on January 25, 2010, 10:23:07 PM
Then again, if you go through a mud hole that spans the road, there will be one wheel on a 4WD that has good traction, but the locked 2WD might be spinning both wheels. The solution here is clear: locked 4WD. :lol:
A limited slip 2wd is simply amazing in its abilities in comparison to an open 2wd. A locker is just that much better. I want one for the Rodeo, but I can't finds!
Quote from: Psilos on January 25, 2010, 10:25:29 PM
I won't speak for or defend the multitudes of truck buyers that don't need a truck, but high clearance on a 2WD truck is absolutely useful.
It allows you to get more speed up to plow through low-traction situations, without getting stuck on stupid rocks.
Having owned both open diff and limited slip 4WD vehicles and having off-roaded them to a moderate degree, the 4WD w/open diffs will be better in all conditions and all scenarios than the 2WD with limited slip/locker.
Also don't forget 2WD won't have a 2-sp T-case, meaning it is virtually impossible to even begin to get into a serious off roading condition without that low gear set.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2010, 11:38:45 PM
Having owned both open diff and limited slip 4WD vehicles and having off-roaded them to a moderate degree, the 4WD w/open diffs will be better in all conditions and all scenarios than the 2WD with limited slip/locker.
Also don't forget 2WD won't have a 2-sp T-case, meaning it is virtually impossible ti even begin to get into a serious off roading condition to begin with without that low gear set.
How could they not be better? :huh: I don't understand what he's talking about.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 25, 2010, 11:52:04 PM
How could they not be better? :huh: I don't understand what he's talking about.
Not sure, though he may have just been trolling.
Quote from: GoCougs on January 25, 2010, 11:55:53 PM
Not sure, though he may have just been trolling.
He is. For some reason he's been after me lately. He's completely contrary to everything I post in any thread regardless of topic.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 26, 2010, 12:04:40 AM
He is. For some reason he's been after me lately. He's completely contrary to everything I post in any thread regardless of topic.
But you'd have to admit that your Mustangism makes you a target, no?
Nicholas wants a Falcon RTV, you see, which is one of those 2WD-with-locking-differential jobbies:
(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/private/carpoint/7244333.jpg)
This one comes with a dog, apparently.
(http://liveimages.carsales.com.au/private/carpoint/6651356.jpg)
And my goodness - they have excellent resale value, too. Utes always do here, it seems.
Quote from: NACar on January 25, 2010, 10:33:18 PM
A limited slip 2wd is simply amazing in its abilities in comparison to an open 2wd. A locker is just that much better. I want one for the Rodeo, but I can't finds!
It allows you to get more speed up to plow through low-traction situations, without getting stuck on stupid rocks.
Sure, if your options are open or locked 2WD only, the locker is gonna be that much better. But for my money, I want a proper 4WD. That two-speed transfer case is sure handy, and so is getting traction both front and rear.
For example, if you're driving up a muddy road with an open 2WD, you spin a tire and eventually get stuck. In a locked 2WD, you spin both rear tires, and the back end wanders wherever gravity takes it (i.e. off the road). In a 4WD with an open rear diff, you spin one of the back tires and one of the front tires, you stay on track, and get stuck further up the road ( :lol: ).
Shit, just the other day, I was driving a big 4WD in 2Hi down a wet gravel road with muddy spots and very soft muddy shoulders. I was going slow, and looking at the forest, so I was late turning into a corner. The front left tire went onto the shoulder, and then the rear left. I spun the rear left as I tried to get it back on the road, but the rear stayed in the mud (basically a drift :lol: ). It's that easy to get the back end moving when only one tire is spinning and the surface is slick.
I could have steered across the road and driven out, but I decided to put it in 4Hi and leave it there until we hit pavement, instead.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 25, 2010, 11:52:04 PM
How could they not be better? :huh: I don't understand what he's talking about.
In some situations, like those where traction is high, but you might get a wheel in the air or almost in the air, a locked 2WD will be pretty close to as good as a 4WD. But not most situations.
Quote from: Psilos on January 25, 2010, 10:20:58 PM
The real question here is, why are the 4WD 2500HDs so low? At least on the 2005 generation, the frame rails hang down a good five inches below the body. Both the Ford and Dodge heavy duty trucks have at least another few inches on the Chevy.
Hemi and I have been saying that for years. And in fact this is the very reason my dad's company no longer buys Chevy work trucks.
First of all, the notion that you need a truck for offroading is ludicrous. I've done plenty of offroading and never once got stuck in a FWD Passat. Per my experience, the ultimate offroad vehicle is the B5 Passat.
That is 100% irrefutable.
Having grown up in farming country, there was a time when a two wheel drive truck was it for going through muddy fields...AKA, off-road. It really wasn't until the 1990's that everyone felt they had to have a 4wd to go off-road.
:rolleyes: @ 4wd trolls, on a futile mission to somehow prove that two wheels provide so much more traction than two wheels, and that anyone who thinks that two wheels could possibly be as good as two wheels off road must be a troll, themselves. Omicron has the right idea, as usual.
Quote from: Submariner on January 23, 2010, 12:36:14 PM
Chevy thinks massive wheel gap is hot? :huh:
They must all think that way now. It looks like shit. But Chevy is the king of massive gaps.
Quote from: Tave on January 26, 2010, 05:49:53 AM
Hemi and I have been saying that for years. And in fact this is the very reason my dad's company no longer buys Chevy work trucks.
Yeah, the other group that has a big truck at work has a Dodge. I'm jealous.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=21111.msg1252452#msg1252452 date=1264518219
First of all, the notion that you need a truck for offroading is ludicrous. I've done plenty of offroading and never once got stuck in a FWD Passat. Per my experience, the ultimate offroad vehicle is the B5 Passat.
That is 100% irrefutable.
My folks wrote a hiking book using a Buick LeSabre as the field rig.
Quote from: JWC on January 26, 2010, 09:13:20 AM
Having grown up in farming country, there was a time when a two wheel drive truck was it for going through muddy fields...AKA, off-road. It really wasn't until the 1990's that everyone felt they had to have a 4wd to go off-road.
Of course, those 2WD trucks all had big gnarly rear tires.
Quote from: NACar on January 26, 2010, 10:36:32 AM
:rolleyes: @ 4wd trolls, on a futile mission to somehow prove that two wheels provide so much more traction than two wheels, and that anyone who thinks that two wheels could possibly be as good as two wheels off road must be a troll, themselves. Omicron has the right idea, as usual.
Quit being an ass.
Quote from: Psilos on January 26, 2010, 07:53:38 PM
My folks wrote a hiking book using a Buick LeSabre as the field rig.
That's like saying, "I use my car to fly when I drive it to the airport." :evildude:
Quote from: Onslaught on January 26, 2010, 06:54:31 PM
They must all think that way now. It looks like shit. But Chevy is the king of massive gaps.
Chevy seems to be the only offender.
(http://www.pickupsplus.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/3.jpg)
(http://image.dieselpowermag.com/f/9654618+w750+st0/0804dp_10_z+new_diesel_cars+2010_ford_f-150.jpg)
(http://d.yimg.com/ca.yimg.com/autos/FORD-F-250_SUPER_DUTY-2010-4PU-C.jpg)
(http://www.dieselautoblog.com/Images/Dodge/2009%20Dodge%201500.jpg)
(http://images.passionperformance.ca/photos/0/2/0/020945_2010_Toyota_Tundra.jpg)
Quote from: Psilos on January 26, 2010, 07:54:57 PM
Quit being an ass.
I point out a fun fact, which is nearly a certain fact for anyone with an unbiased, open mind and any experience, but nobody says, "hey, interesting point" or "yeah, most of the capability of a 4x4, but without the extra complexity and weight". Instead, I get raped by an army of 4x4 trolls. Who's the ass?
Quote from: Tave on January 26, 2010, 08:09:51 PM
That's like saying, "I use my car to fly when I drive it to the airport." :evildude:
Ha, well, shit, you've got to get up those windy, poorly maintained gravel and dirt roads, somehow!
To expand on the topic, I guess, in some places you can get anywhere you probably want to go with a 2WD sedan (such as the OR and WA Cascades), but in others you are going to have a hard time without a high-clearance rig (ID) or 4WD (ID in the winter). There is the additional point, at least for those of us in the western U.S., that National Forest roads have gotten much worse, and continue to do so, so that a road that a passenger car could travel in 1990 might now be passable only to high clearance rigs.
Quote from: SVT666 on January 26, 2010, 09:10:00 PM
Chevy seems to be the only offender.
Exactly. W.T.F?
Quote from: NACar on January 26, 2010, 09:16:27 PM
I point out a fun fact, which is nearly a certain fact for anyone with an unbiased, open mind and any experience, but nobody says, "hey, interesting point" or "yeah, most of the capability of a 4x4, but without the extra complexity and weight". Instead, I get raped by an army of 4x4 trolls. Who's the ass?
Except that it doesn't have most of the capability of a 4WD. I've given examples of where the 4WD wins, and I gave the only example I could think of where the locked 2WD would be better. Your ice on one side of the road example is OK, except that, how often is only one side of a road icy for its entire length? :huh:
Anyway, chill, dawg.
:lol:
Quote from: Psilos on January 26, 2010, 09:35:37 PM
Except that it doesn't have most of the capability of a 4WD. I've given examples of where the 4WD wins, and I gave the only example I could think of where the locked 2WD would be better. Your ice on one side of the road example is OK, except that, how often if only one side of a road icy for its entire length? :huh:
Anyway, chill, dawg.
:lol:
I've had many-a-4x4, and a few different types of rear diffs, and for all around simplicity and capability, I'd have to pick a 2wd with limited slip. It is capable in capable hands, and with RWD, it is fun in a
the back wants to be up front kind of way. For hardcore trails, no doubt I would prefer to have a 4x4, and with a locking rear end. Dawg.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :lol:
Yeah, but you live in Maine. The highest.....hill.....there is only 5,000 ft. :evildude:
Quote from: Tave on January 26, 2010, 10:24:02 PM
Yeah, but you live in Maine. The highest.....hill.....there is only 5,000 ft. :evildude:
5,267 :heated:
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 26, 2010, 09:46:06 PM
I've had many-a-4x4, and a few different types of rear diffs, and for all around simplicity and capability, I'd have to pick a 2wd with limited slip. It is capable in capable hands, and with RWD, it is fun in a the back wants to be up front kind of way. For hardcore trails, no doubt I would prefer to have a 4x4, and with a locking rear end. Dawg.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :lol:
You idiot
How are you supposed to move when you're driving like this?
(http://rally.subaru.com/gallery/2008_x/day2_LG4_3454.jpg)
You need 4WD for that.
I will be able to make the Swift do that once I put the giant tires on.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on January 26, 2010, 09:46:06 PM
I've had many-a-4x4, and a few different types of rear diffs, and for all around simplicity and capability, I'd have to pick a 2wd with limited slip. It is capable in capable hands, and with RWD, it is fun in a the back wants to be up front kind of way. For hardcore trails, no doubt I would prefer to have a 4x4, and with a locking rear end. Dawg.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :lol:
:lol:
But then why do you have an expensive 4WD? :lol:
Quote from: Psilos on January 27, 2010, 12:00:01 AM
:lol:
But then why do you have an expensive 4WD? :lol:
Fuck if I know
I kind of want a Nissan Frontier crew cab. Cool looking trucks.
Quote from: Raza on January 27, 2010, 07:03:40 AM
I kind of want a Nissan Frontier crew cab. Cool looking trucks.
You could get those in S/C form right?
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 10:48:28 AM
You could get those in S/C form right?
Last generation, yes. I believe Raza is talking about the current gen, which just comes with a giant, naturally aspirated VQ with more power than the supercharged motor
Quote from: The Pirate on January 27, 2010, 10:53:59 AM
Last generation, yes. I believe Raza is talking about the current gen, which just comes with a giant, naturally aspirated VQ with more power than the supercharged motor
I didn't know Nissan still made the frontier
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 11:02:19 AM
I didn't know Nissan still made the frontier
2010 Nissan Frontier
(http://www.japanesesportcars.com/photos/d/23456-2/2009-nissan-frontier+_12_.jpg)
Quote from: The Pirate on January 27, 2010, 10:53:59 AM
Last generation, yes. I believe Raza is talking about the current gen, which just comes with a giant, naturally aspirated VQ with more power than the supercharged motor
I am, and I didn't know either way.
Personally, if I ever bought a truck, I'd prefer a diesel over a gas engine anyway.
Oh I remember now. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've heard ANYTHING about a the frontier since it was overhauled in 05 or something?
Quote from: Raza on January 27, 2010, 11:07:19 AM
I am, and I didn't know either way.
Personally, if I ever bought a truck, I'd prefer a diesel over a gas engine anyway.
Diesel trucks have a place in my heart. A tiny little spot, but how could they not with versions like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2Oh_DGo7M&feature=arelated
Quote from: Raza on January 27, 2010, 07:03:40 AM
I kind of want a Nissan Frontier crew cab. Cool looking trucks.
(http://jeep-parts.uneedapart.com/images/jeep-comanche-parts.jpg)
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 11:10:44 AM
Diesel trucks have a place in my heart. A tiny little spot, but how could they not with versions like this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mz2Oh_DGo7M&feature=arelated
I hate those trucks with the exhaust stacks up through the box. I also hate those trucks with the 6" exhaust that's so loud it's deafening. It's not even a nice sound like a V8 rumble or the scream of a high strung V6. It's a horrible sound.
Mark if I said my parents were about to pick up a Grand Cherokee back when they got the explorer but they chose the explorer cuz I said the GC sucked, would you hate me? :lol:
Quote from: SVT666 on January 27, 2010, 11:13:33 AM
I hate those trucks with the exhaust stacks up through the box. I also hate those trucks with the 6" exhaust that's so loud it's deafening. It's not even a nice sound like a V8 rumble or the scream of a high strung V6. It's a horrible sound.
I'd definitely do side pipes under the running boards. As much as I don't want my own car fuming black smoke like that, I find it comical as hell.
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 11:08:56 AM
Oh I remember now. Now that I think about it, I don't think I've heard ANYTHING about a the frontier since it was overhauled in 05 or something?
No idea. I remember reading about the Nissan Navara in Evo, saying I liked it, and then someone here telling me it's the same thing as the Frontier.
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 11:14:08 AM
Mark if I said my parents were about to pick up a Grand Cherokee back when they got the explorer but they chose the explorer cuz I said the GC sucked, would you hate me? :lol:
No, I'd laugh at your parents' expense for buying a POS Explorer.
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 02:05:02 PM
No, I'd laugh at your parents' expense for buying a POS Explorer.
Better than a GC :huh:
Yeah, because it earned the nickname "Exploder" for no particular reason...
I mean, if we were comparing new Explorers and Grand Cherokees, I'd probably give the edge to the Explorer, because the Grand Cherokee is a piece. But the old ones? ZJs, WJs?
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 02:14:24 PM
Yeah, because it earned the nickname "Exploder" for no particular reason...
I mean, if we were comparing new Explorers and Grand Cherokees, I'd probably give the edge to the Explorer, because the Grand Cherokee is a piece. But the old ones? ZJs, WJs?
New? What's considered new? Our explorer is a 03 and that's when it got the major overhaul (It got IRS that year).
So we were comparing a 03 explorer with a 03 GC (which is a WJ). In the GC's defence, the explorer had just received a major overhaul and the GC was out since '99 at that point.
I'd have taken the '03 GC over the Explorer. But I'd have taken an '05 Explorer over an '05 Grand Cherokee.
Deep down I don't really care: it's your parents' money, they can do whatever they want with it.
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 03:04:07 PM
I'd have taken the '03 GC over the Explorer. But I'd have taken an '05 Explorer over an '05 Grand Cherokee.
Deep down I don't really care: it's your parents' money, they can do whatever they want with it.
No they can't!!! They have to do with it what you say. Don't let them get away with this.
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 03:04:07 PM
I'd have taken the '03 GC over the Explorer. But I'd have taken an '05 Explorer over an '05 Grand Cherokee.
Deep down I don't really care: it's your parents' money, they can do whatever they want with it.
Have you ever been in the backseat of a WJ? It's like they literally took some sponge, put some leather on it and called it a bench. It has NO support whatsoever. I was sitting in the back for all of maybe 10-15 minutes, and my back hurt so much I couldn't even get back up.
I have been in the backseat of a WJ, and in general I'd have to agree. It might have bothered me if I sat in the back for a long time, but I've only been in there for a few minutes at a time. I don't know if the seats in the Laredo and Limited are different; I've only been in an Overland.
I don't really care about backseat comfort though. My car's backseat is mostly useless I move the front seats up.
I did kind of want my parents to get the GC since they were gonna get the Limited (that's the middle level right?) with a V8. Only if my parents got the explorer with a V8...
HO 4.7 L >>> 12v 4.6 L Modular
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
HO 4.7 L >>> 12v 4.6 L Modular
12v eh? 1.5 valves per cylinder!!!!111!!
Quote from: 93JC on January 27, 2010, 03:32:01 PM
HO 4.7 L >>> 12v 4.6 L Modular
We would've gotten the regular 4.7L (the HO was only available in the overland)
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 27, 2010, 03:34:27 PM
12v eh? 1.5 valves per cylinder!!!!111!!
Fack. :facepalm:
I meant to write "2v", as in two valves per cylinder. I guess my pudgy fingers and sloppy typing bit me in the ass on that one...
Quote from: SVT666 on January 26, 2010, 09:10:00 PM
Chevy seems to be the only offender.
No, the F-150 has it too. Compared to my dads 2000 4WD F-150 with tow package the current ones on the bed are huge and ugly.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on January 25, 2010, 11:52:04 PM
How could they not be better? :huh: I don't understand what he's talking about.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-rQTHMVAuw
Good description and shows it but I'm not sure it's not rigged because it's obviously a sales pitch.
Yeah, that does a pretty good job showing how it works (I had the sound off). That is pretty much the only situation where a locker is better than 4WD, however, and for that short patch of "ice," you could just get more momentum.
Unless you're doing something like pulling a boat out of the water where your starting from a stop. I guess after watching that I know less about how limtied slip works that I thought I did. :huh:
Quote from: Rupert on January 28, 2010, 02:37:35 PM
Yeah, that does a pretty good job showing how it works (I had the sound off). That is pretty much the only situation where a locker is better than 4WD, however, and for that short patch of "ice," you could just get more momentum.
For that short patch of "ice", I think they could have just driven around it. :lol:
But really, that video demonstrates exactly what I was saying.
Exactly.
Which is why, what you really want, is 4WD and a locker in the back. :lol:
Quote from: Rupert on January 29, 2010, 12:01:52 AM
Exactly.
Which is why, what you really want, is 4WD and a locker in the back. :lol:
I found that the Rodeo has a Dana Spicer 44 HD, and a Trac-Loc is about $370. I could do it at school next week if I had $370 to blow.