You have a red light. You want to make make a right turn into a two-lane road. You enter the rightmost of the two lanes,
In the opposite direction people have a green left-turn arrow. Instead of the left lane, they make their turn into the right lane & collide with you.
Who is at fault? You, because you failed to yield on a right turn on red? Or them, because they failed to maintain lane while turning?
Im at fault, they have the light, they ahve the right of way.
We have a turn here where the left turn arrow dumps into a road with 3 lanes going the same direction and a half-block later there is a light and an entrance to a shopping mall on the right. Probably 80% of the cars turning left go straight to the far right lane so they can get into the mall. You don't even try to make a right on the red until after left turning traffic clears. And yes, you would get the ticket for making the right on the red because they have the right of way even if they are not following the proper procedure by turning into the closest lane.
What if you're at a green waiting to turn left onto a two-lane. You turn left and keep to the left lane. But right turning traffic is expecting to go straight into the left lane.
Quote from: Eye of the Tiger on May 22, 2015, 11:25:31 AM
What if you're at a green waiting to turn left onto a two-lane. You turn left and keep to the left lane. But right turning traffic is expecting to go straight into the left lane.
That could be tricky. If you do not have a dedicated green arrow and the other driver has a green then I would think he might be considered to be oncoming traffic and you would have to yield before making your turn.
Quote from: Morris Minor on May 22, 2015, 09:31:30 AM
You have a red light. You want to make make a right turn into a two-lane road. You enter the rightmost of the two lanes,
In the opposite direction people have a green left-turn arrow. Instead of the left lane, they make their turn into the right lane & collide with you.
Who is at fault? You, because you failed to yield on a right turn on red? Or them, because they failed to maintain lane while turning?
Are any of the parties involved minorities? :evildude:
Some people would argue they would automatically get the ticket regardless of who is at fault.
My understanding is the driver making the right turn on red has the responsibility to ensure the way is clear. he has to yield to any other traffic and any pedestrians. At the least he is guilty of blatant stupidity for assuming people will exhibit any kind of lane discipline while turning a corner.
I almost always maintain my lane when turning. If I don't, I have checked to make sure nobody is turning right.
If it's a single protected left turn lane going into a multi-lane road, I don't "maintain" my lane. I just pick one of the three. If someone turns out on a red while I'm turning, it's their fault if we crash.
If it's a left turn on yield situation I'll usually pick the left most lane to turn into to avoid situations like what Nick is saying, although I try not to make the turn while anyone is coming from the opposing side, even if they are only turning right.
this is why i can't stand cities. traffic.
Quote from: thecarnut on May 22, 2015, 01:05:50 PM
If it's a single protected left turn lane going into a multi-lane road, I don't "maintain" my lane. I just pick one of the three. If someone turns out on a red while I'm turning, it's their fault if we crash.
:facepalm:
Quote from: SVT_Power on May 28, 2015, 12:40:35 AM
:facepalm:
What? If it's a protected green for me and red for the guy making the right turn, it's always his fault for turning out at an unsafe time.
If you get hit in this situation you're really not paying attention. I have to brake to avoid inside-to-outside drifters all the time because they aren't looking for you.
People down here seem to respect turn light etiquette.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 29, 2015, 07:22:56 AM
People down here seem to respect turn light etiquette.
And they don't know how to merge onto/off a interstate. Once I almost ran over a state trooper who couldn't merger onto the highway properly.
Quote from: Morris Minor on May 22, 2015, 09:31:30 AM
You have a red light. You want to make make a right turn into a two-lane road. You enter the rightmost of the two lanes,
In the opposite direction people have a green left-turn arrow. Instead of the left lane, they make their turn into the right lane & collide with you.
Who is at fault? You, because you failed to yield on a right turn on red? Or them, because they failed to maintain lane while turning?
Your both at fault, for assuming the other person knew how to drive
Quote from: thecarnut on May 28, 2015, 07:54:43 AM
What? If it's a protected green for me and red for the guy making the right turn, it's always his fault for turning out at an unsafe time.
You're supposed to maintain your lane during the turn. They would probably cite the other guy, but that doesn't make what you're doing right.
Quote from: MrH on June 01, 2015, 10:52:33 AM
You're supposed to maintain your lane during the turn. They would probably cite the other guy, but that doesn't make what you're doing right.
What do you do if you need to enter a road/parking lot immediately after the intersection? Turn into the closest lane and then immediately veer across all the lanes to get to your turn?
Quote from: thecarnut on June 01, 2015, 07:12:24 PM
What do you do if you need to enter a road/parking lot immediately after the intersection? Turn into the closest lane and then immediately veer across all the lanes to get to your turn?
Turn left, put on turn signal, change lanes, and turn right? :huh:
You're basically veering across all the lanes and doing exactly what you're saying above, but in just one fell swoop by not maintaining your lane while turning :lol:
Quote from: JWC on May 30, 2015, 05:58:43 PM
And they don't know how to merge onto/off a interstate. Once I almost ran over a state trooper who couldn't merger onto the highway properly.
HOLY CRAP YES. They need to put a sign on the on-ramp which says "SPEED LIMIT XX
ACCELERATE NOW".
Quite often I see people barely getting up to 45mph in a 65mph zone, running out of merge lane. I can get up to 10mph over the limit in my OLD econobox, there's no excuse people can't be merging better.
And my other peeve is letting off the gas like a mile before the exit. :facepalm:
Quote from: thecarnut on June 01, 2015, 07:12:24 PM
What do you do if you need to enter a road/parking lot immediately after the intersection? Turn into the closest lane and then immediately veer across all the lanes to get to your turn?
http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/traffic_talk_when_turning_do_d.html (http://www.mlive.com/news/index.ssf/2011/06/traffic_talk_when_turning_do_d.html)
This is Michigan law, but I assume similar laws apply in most/all states.
"It is fairly simple for right turns: 'Both the approach for a right turn and a right turn shall be made as close as practicable to the right-hand curb or edge of the roadway,' Church said. "So, for right turns, you must stay as close to the right edge as possible."
The statute that covers this says: "Approach for a left turn from a 2-way roadway into a 1-way roadway shall be made in that portion of the right half of the roadway nearest the center line and clear of existing car tracks in use, and by passing to the right of the center line where it enters the intersection. Approach for a left turn from a 1-way roadway into a 2-way roadway shall be made as close as practicable to the left curb or edge of the roadway and by passing to the right of the center line of the roadway being entered. Where both streets or roadways are 1-way, both the approach for a left turn and a left turn shall be made as close as practicable to the left-hand curb or edge of the roadway."
"I have heard arguments both ways on left turns," Church said. "That is, some people argue that you must stay to the left, others argue that it is not required."
"I would say that the safest way to turn is to stay in your lane," he said. "If I were handling the crash in this scenario then I would find the person who turned into the "wrong" lane to be at fault."
Quote from: MrH on June 02, 2015, 08:56:56 AM
Turn left, put on turn signal, change lanes, and turn right? :huh:
This seems like a pretty logical sequence, not sure what the confusion is. Sure you might turn wide into another lane to make it more convenient, doesn't make it right.
Quote from: JWC on May 30, 2015, 05:58:43 PM
And they don't know how to merge onto/off a interstate. Once I almost ran over a state trooper who couldn't merger onto the highway properly.
IMO the best strategy for the on-ramp is to be going just a tad faster than the traffic you're merging with. It's easier to brake into a gap than it is accelerate.
Quote from: thecarnut on May 28, 2015, 07:54:43 AM
What? If it's a protected green for me and red for the guy making the right turn, it's always his fault for turning out at an unsafe time.
You're always supposed to turn into the left lane., unless otherwise marked. Will he get the ticket? Probably. Cold comfort that is.