http://www.evo.co.uk/porsche/911-gt3/18729/new-911-gt3-to-get-40-litre-flat-six-and-manual-gearbox
This.
Changes.
Everything.
All these damn 911s make me dizzy!
I will enjoy seeing the bubble burst on 997 GT3s
The 911R will still be the holy grail of the 991s
I guess people wanted it. Manual is not dead yet.
As a rich enthusiast wanting a manual, where do you go? Good call for Porsche.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 20, 2017, 05:46:03 AM
As a rich enthusiast wanting a manual, where do you go? Good call for Porsche.
Something less powerful.... GT3's class is too fast for stickshift; something like a 488 GTB with stickshift would be a full on death trap
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Something less powerful.... GT3's class is too fast for stickshift; something like a 488 GTB with stickshift would be a full on death trap
:confused: :wtf:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 06:44:59 AM
Something less powerful.... GT3's class is too fast for stickshift; something like a 488 GTB with stickshift would be a full on death trap
So we should expect manual Z06 and ZL1 owners just dying left and right?
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I actually agree with Sporty on his hot take here :lol:
Try driving one of these really fast cars near the limit, and you'll quickly realize you can't keep up. I would still enjoy a manual GT3 a lot, but I don't blame them for going PDK only. Even on an E90 M3, I think I would prefer a dual clutch instead.
Yea, puttering around C&C doesn't count. And we have all seen the Corvette/Mustang straight line crash compilations.... throw another 200-400 HP on that and see what happens
At this level of performance the less the driver has to do the better. FFS a lot of these cars have to have their power capped for GT3 race trim... and that's with full racing slicks, paddle shift, aero and most importantly professional racers behind the wheel.
Lol, people in cars with more power than they can handle crashing while showing off at C&C isn't going to be affected by the type of transmission. Half of those Mustangs and Vettes that fishtail off the road are probably automatics anyway.
There's plenty of stories/photos/videos of exotics and supercars with DSGs/SMGs crashed on public streets because their owners were driving like idiots.
Driving an automatic C6 Corvette was scary to me. There is very little control over how the power is applied to the rear wheels when cornering hard. Add a bump during a mid-corner shift, and you're toast. The manual mode responds slowly and unoredictably. F that. It's good for drag racing, and 7/10ths twisties. Not good at the limit.
To really enjoy these cars in the real world, there's nothing like shifting gears yourself, in full control of the RPMS, heel-toe shifting and using some actual skill driving on a nice twisty road. To me that's worth the price of admission. If I wanted a car to do everything for me I'd just buy one of the other 95% of the mobility appliances out there.
Better on a track or near the limit? How many of you will ever track a $100,000+ car or even approach 50% of its potential? Get real.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 20, 2017, 09:15:36 AM
To really enjoy these cars in the real world, there's nothing like shifting gears yourself, in full control of the RPMS, heel-toe shifting and using some actual skill driving on a nice twisty road. To me that's worth the price of admission. If I wanted a car to do everything for me I'd just buy one of the other 95% of the mobility appliances out there.
Better on a track or near the limit? How many of you will ever track a $100,000+ car or even approach 50% of its potential? Get real.
You can't enjoy these cars in the real world. At least with any kind of regard for the law and public safety. Instead of enjoying the drive you wind up focusing on trying to keep it all reined in. In the context of driving like a sane person on the street the skills involved driving one of these are no bigger or different than those required to drive a stickshift Versa. If you buy a GT3 and never take it to the track you're doing it wrong
I think this depends on location and geography.
These things can really be opened up out west. On the straights and the curves of well built roads in the mountains.
In the east and in cities not so much
That's probably a fair point as well, but even still, even pushing a base Carrera hard on public roads is pretty damn reckless.
Quote from: Rich on January 20, 2017, 10:11:13 AM
I think this depends on location and geography.
These things can really be opened up out west. On the straights and the curves of well built roads in the mountains.
In the east and in cities not so much
Fun Fax: We have a 25-mile completely straight stretch of road nearby. Supposedly one of the longest no-curve stretches east of the Mississippi, and longest in MI. The Seney Stretch...epic place if you've got a fast car.
(http://static.panoramio.com/photos/large/23740728.jpg)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=751DTKSqeWw
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 10:08:02 AM
You can't enjoy these cars in the real world. At least with any kind of regard for the law and public safety. Instead of enjoying the drive you wind up focusing on trying to keep it all reined in. In the context of driving like a sane person on the street the skills involved driving one of these are no bigger or different than those required to drive a stickshift Versa. If you buy a GT3 and never take it to the track you're doing it wrong
You do not need to be at 9/10ths or even 6/10ths these days to enjoy these cars.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on January 20, 2017, 11:01:15 AM
You do not need to be at 9/10ths or even 6/10ths these days to enjoy these cars.
I think the notion that you can't enjoy a car unless you're using it to its full potential is garbage. By that logic, virtually none of us enjoy our cars 99% of the time, which is obviously bullshit.
Is a GT3 overkill for the street? Absolutely, but so are so many other vehicles. Does that mean you can't enjoy it? Uhhh, no.
Guys, this bullshit hyperbole is coming from a dude that advocates bike ownership which is both less safe than a car on average and with more extreme performance on average. You absolutely can enjoy your car at 1/10ths if you wanted to and plenty of people do all the time. The manual is just one part of that.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 20, 2017, 11:18:49 AM
Guys, this bullshit hyperbole is coming from a dude that advocates bike ownership which is both less safe than a car on average and with more extreme performance on average. You absolutely can enjoy your car at 1/10ths if you wanted to and plenty of people do all the time. The manual is just one part of that.
Ehhh, bikes aren't really comparable. For starters their immersive nature makes them way more engaging than any car. Plus self-preservation/physics make the lateral limits of a bike much lower than a car. So not only do you not need to go as fast for the same thrills; most of the time you physically can't. We have all seen the videos of pretty weak sauce cars giving sportbikes the business through turns... and that's in the hands of good riders. Cars by comparison are much easier to drive fast
IDK I enjoy my car cruising at 0/10ths through a nice downtown area with big plate glass windows so I can check myself out. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 11:36:50 AM
Ehhh, bikes aren't really comparable. For starters their immersive nature makes them way more engaging than any car. Plus self-preservation/physics make the lateral limits of a bike much lower than a car. So not only do you not need to go as fast for the same thrills; most of the time you physically can't. We have all seen the videos of pretty weak sauce cars giving sportbikes the business through turns... and that's in the hands of good riders. Cars by comparison are much easier to drive fast
So let me get this straight, because bikes are more dangerous and much harder to control, they are okay, but since cars are safter and easier to control they aren't? You're jumping through way too many hoops to justify your own hyperbole now. You are confusing your experience/wants for what someone else might think, and that is a very very dangerous place to be logically.
Bottom line... a manual anything is going to be a more entertaining drive than an automatic at legal speeds.
Quote from: Xer0 on January 20, 2017, 12:51:47 PM
So let me get this straight, because bikes are more dangerous and much harder to control, they are okay, but since cars are safter and easier to control they aren't? You're jumping through way too many hoops to justify your own hyperbole now. You are confusing your experience/wants for what someone else might think, and that is a very very dangerous place to be logically.
I don't think so. You have to drive something like a GT3 way harder than you would have to ride a bike to have the same amount of fun. Plus with the bike if you ride like a dumbass you're much less likely to kill somebody besides yourself :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 20, 2017, 11:08:20 AM
I think the notion that you can't enjoy a car unless you're using it to its full potential is garbage. By that logic, virtually none of us enjoy our cars 99% of the time, which is obviously bullshit.
Is a GT3 overkill for the street? Absolutely, but so are so many other vehicles. Does that mean you can't enjoy it? Uhhh, no.
:hesaid: My GS has waaaaay more funk than I'll EVER use! But I enjoy driving it at 5/10 just as much as I would at 9/10! Plus at that level I don't have to worry as much about wrecking it! :lol:
You can pummel a Daihatsu Midget II at 10/10ths, and still be within legal speeds. :lol:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 01:05:17 PM
I don't think so. You have to drive something like a GT3 way harder than you would have to ride a bike to have the same amount of fun. Plus with the bike if you ride like a dumbass you're much less likely to kill somebody besides yourself :huh:
Well, I'm glad you don't think it would make a difference for you, but again, you aren't the owner of these cars. You couldn't DD a 350Z but plenty of people do and enjoy cars much more extreme day in and day out. Hell, Rag's car is barely street legal at this point and he still enjoys it at like 2/10ths. Point is, you're experience isn't everyone's experience and just cause a GT3 would bore you puttering around in traffic doesn't mean it would bore someone else. I'm glad you found something that works for you, but understand that it won't work for everyone.
Quote from: Rockraven on January 20, 2017, 01:03:56 PM
Bottom line... a manual anything is going to be a more entertaining drive than an automatic at legal speeds.
This is true! But Imma be honest! IDK if it's age or I'm just getting soft but a manual in my sports car is not a requirement for me anymore. After almost 10 years in manuals (Z28,MR2,etc.) I don't care what gearbox it has. Now back in the day I would never pick and Auto Mustang GT over a 5 Speed. Same for a Camaro. But back then the Stick was waaaay faster than the Auto (more so the 5.0 than the Z28) so it was a no brainer. But now with Autos OUTRUNNING the manuals there's no penalty for going with an Auto.
Ok, sporty went off the handles bars on this argument again. I no longer support his hot take :lol:
Quote from: Xer0 on January 20, 2017, 01:11:02 PM
Hell, Rag's car is barely street legal at this point and he still enjoys it at like 2/10ths.
Does he though?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 01:05:17 PM
I don't think so. You have to drive something like a GT3 way harder than you would have to ride a bike to have the same amount of fun. Plus with the bike if you ride like a dumbass you're much less likely to kill somebody besides yourself :huh:
That really depends on one's definition of "fun." For you, "fun" seems to mean being at the very limit of the vehicle's capability.
Are you saying that, if you had this Porsche, you'd never be having any fun in it unless you were at the limit of its capabilities? That's insane, man.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
That really depends on one's definition of "fun." For you, "fun" seems to mean being at the very limit of the vehicle's capability.
Are you saying that, if you had this Porsche, you'd never be having any fun in it unless you were at the limit of its capabilities? That's insane, man.
He has stated that he's spun cars on Public roads with the TC turn ON!!!! He's a wild dude!
Quote from: SVT_Power on January 20, 2017, 01:20:23 PM
Does he though?
So much that he opts to commute on a dirtbike.
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2017, 01:38:30 PM
So much that he opts to commute on a dirtbike.
:lol:
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Quote from: SVT_Power on January 20, 2017, 01:20:23 PM
Does he though?
Here's the thing - if it's just driving for fun, I still love it. Xer0 is right, in the twisties, even not pushing it, it's fun to just row the gears, heel-toe into corners, listen to the exhaust, etc. I just don't like driving in traffic anymore, and that's not limited to my car. Even with the most comfortable car, if I'm still driving it and am still stuck in traffic, I'll end up hating it.
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2017, 01:38:30 PM
So much that he opts to commute on a dirtbike.
1. WR is gone.
2. I don't live in the wrong part of the country and can actually lane split and ride year round and save a substantial amount of time on my commute. Oh, and save on parking, too.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
That really depends on one's definition of "fun." For you, "fun" seems to mean being at the very limit of the vehicle's capability.
Are you saying that, if you had this Porsche, you'd never be having any fun in it unless you were at the limit of its capabilities? That's insane, man.
I have a whippet/Jack Russell mix. She gallops through our backyard like a deer. She is so fast, sometimes it's hard to believe. I liken having a GT3 on the street, to having her in a NYC apartment. OK, maybe every now and then, when I have the time, and the weather is good, and the moon is in the right part of its cycle, I can take her to the park and let her run loose. But for the other 350 days a year, we're both miserable. Everything is best in its natural environment. The street is not the natural environment for a track car... especially with 500, 600, 700 HP.
Commuting by bike in Cali is the best way to commute by far. I am in support of that.
Quote from: Cookie Monster on January 20, 2017, 01:51:39 PM
2. I don't live in the wrong part of the country and can actually lane split and ride year round and save a substantial amount of time on my commute. Oh, and save on parking, too.
Sounds like you live in the wrong part of the country if a long commute and parking are big worries. :devil:
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
I have a whippet/Jack Russell mix. She gallops through our backyard like a deer. She is so fast, sometimes it's hard to believe. I liken having a GT3 on the street, to having her in a NYC apartment. OK, maybe every now and then, when I have the time, and the weather is good, and the moon is in the right part of its cycle, I can take her to the park and let her run loose. But for the other 350 days a year, we're both miserable. Everything is best in its natural environment. The street is not the natural environment for a track car... especially with 500, 600, 700 HP.
Have you driven a 500+ hp car on the street?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 20, 2017, 02:10:39 PM
Have you driven a 500+ hp car on the street?
Yes, several
What?
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 01:57:02 PM
I have a whippet/Jack Russell mix. She gallops through our backyard like a deer. She is so fast, sometimes it's hard to believe. I liken having a GT3 on the street, to having her in a NYC apartment. OK, maybe every now and then, when I have the time, and the weather is good, and the moon is in the right part of its cycle, I can take her to the park and let her run loose. But for the other 350 days a year, we're both miserable. Everything is best in its natural environment. The street is not the natural environment for a track car... especially with 500, 600, 700 HP.
Because you track your bike so often...?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 20, 2017, 02:09:56 PM
Sounds like you live in the wrong part of the country if a long commute and parking are big worries. :devil:
Or traffic so bad that lane splitting shaves a lot of time off your commute.
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 20, 2017, 02:11:39 PM
Because you track your bike so often...?
I explained why bikes don't have to be pushed as hard as cars for the same enjoyment.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 20, 2017, 02:37:20 PM
I explained why bikes don't have to be pushed as hard as cars for the same enjoyment for me personally.
There, I fixed it. You do realize this is a totally subjective topic, right?
Quote from: giant_mtb on January 20, 2017, 01:20:59 PM
Are you saying that, if you had this Porsche, you'd never be having any fun in it unless you were at the limit of its capabilities?
Yes or no? Or do I get another dog analogy instead?
Quote from: CaminoRacer on January 20, 2017, 02:09:56 PM
Sounds like you live in the wrong part of the country if a long commute and parking are big worries. :devil:
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2017, 02:16:49 PM
Or traffic so bad that lane splitting shaves a lot of time off your commute.
Sorry I don't want to live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. :huh:
Any big metropolitan area is going to have shitty-enough traffic to warrant lane splitting. And let's not try to pretend that lane splitting doesn't have other advantages (keeps you/your bike cooler, less/no risk of getting rear ended, etc).
Quote from: Cookie Monster on January 20, 2017, 03:00:55 PM
Sorry I don't want to live in the middle of bumfuck nowhere. :huh:
Any big metropolitan area is going to have shitty-enough traffic to warrant lane splitting. And let's not try to pretend that lane splitting doesn't have other advantages (keeps you/your bike cooler, less/no risk of getting rear ended, etc).
Not living in or next to a megatropolis doesn't mean you live in the middle of nowhere. I've been to the middle of nowhere, and I wouldn't want to live there either. I also have no desire to live a dense urban traffic hell like NYC, Boston, Atlanta, or LA.
Quote from: MX793 on January 20, 2017, 03:11:11 PM
Not living in or next to a megatropolis doesn't mean you live in the middle of nowhere. I've been to the middle of nowhere, and I wouldn't want to live there either. I also have no desire to live a dense urban traffic hell like NYC, Boston, Atlanta, or LA.
:hesaid: Traffic (barring a rush hour crash) here in Cleveland is pretty damn good for a major metropolis!
I mean, I'm not even commuting into SF anymore (I work in San Jose now) and traffic really isn't that bad at all, but even some simple construction or an accident (which can happen anywhere) can add 20-30 min to a commute by car, whereas it barely affects the time it takes on a bike.
Last week when it was pouring for a week straight, the terrible infrastructure around here couldn't handle it and roads started flooding and mudslides took out some highways, and traffic got jammed to a stand still everywhere else. I didn't have a problem because I just split straight through that stuff anyways.
Also, on an unrelated note, my work hours this week have been so hellish I could just drive anyways since I end up leaving work at 9-10 PM and there's no traffic. I still ride to save the $7 for parking though.
Medium sized cities are best. I love my commute. If the highway is jammed up I have 3-4 alternative routes which only add another ~10-15 minutes to a 35 minute trip. As long as I'm moving I'm good.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 24, 2017, 04:17:48 AM
Medium sized cities are best. I love my commute. If the highway is jammed up I have 3-4 alternative routes which only add another ~10-15 minutes to a 35 minute trip. As long as I'm moving I'm good.
I'm the same way! I'll drive 5 minutes out the way as long as I'm not sitting still!
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on January 24, 2017, 04:17:48 AM
Medium sized cities are best. I love my commute. If the highway is jammed up I have 3-4 alternative routes which only add another ~10-15 minutes to a 35 minute trip. As long as I'm moving I'm good.
+1
Charlotte, Cincinnati, Columbus, Nashville, etc. Are all attractive sized cities to me. Enough people to be interesting, but not enough to be annoying.
Is this the greatest car ever? I honestly can't tell you which transmission I'd choose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8uZXuHEXYpc
Hoping this kills 997 GT3 prices
Quote from: r0tor on April 27, 2017, 05:43:44 AM
Hoping this kills 997 GT3 prices
:hesaid:
I'd love any GT3 from 996 to this one.
I have a real soft spot for the 996.2 GT3
I'd be happy with a 997 C2S
Quote from: 68_427 on April 27, 2017, 06:45:30 AM
I have a real soft spot for the 996.2 GT3
996.2 Turbo for me. I'm hoping there will still be clean cheap examples available when I can afford one
991 Targa for me.
I'll take any 997.2 car. 4S, 2S, Turbo, GT3. They all work for me :lol: 4S in blue is what I most want though. They've got that horizontal taillight strip that goes all the way across. Direct injection engines that are bulletproof.
Lol @ the stickshift in a 500 hp street car being your limiting factor on public roads.
"If only I felt more comfortable power shifting at 9000rpm I could have really opened her up on that 35 mph sweeper."
Like Nick said, if I'm dealing with some monster that will break traction at quarter throttle, I'll feel a lot safer in the manual where I know I can keep it level.
Most modern 500 hp cars are pretty docile IMO. Especially with ESC.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on April 28, 2017, 01:27:07 PM
Most modern 500 hp cars are pretty docile IMO. Especially with ESC.
Well yeah, especially at low speeds, but your limiting factor will always be power and room to run, not the couple tenths of a second the DCT or Auto provides you over the manual.
Mi middle name is Manuel. Seriously.
From the June issue of "CAR" magazine:
"Or if you fancy something a little lower-key than the GT3, look out for the X90 Touring Pack version. Only available in manual transmission form, it trades in the flash wingwork and the racy interior for the more subtle aero kit of the discontinued 911 R and a period leather-with-corduroy trim."
Add that to this Statement made by Jethro:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ts2OWUM-erU
"If you just spent half a million quid on a 911r last week; you're a ****ing idiot"
Hahhahaha. That's awesome. !!
It needs to be said though, other than 60k+, there's not much out there for car handling enthusiasts anymore.
You've got Mazda and the 86/BRZ and the rest of the lot are pretty numb.
Oh to be a baller and get to choose which Porsche matched my commute 😂
Camaro/Mustang dominate all categories for $35k.
Quote from: CaminoRacer on May 19, 2017, 07:46:02 AM
Camaro/Mustang dominate all categories for $35k.
The camaro's steering is lifeless. Accurate. But it might as well be from a midsizer
Quote from: Rich on May 19, 2017, 07:53:40 AM
The camaro's steering is lifeless. Accurate. But it might as well be from a midsizer
Have you driven the new one? Or are you talking about the previous generation?
I have the new one as a rental. Small diameter wheel and it's accurate and weights up nicely. But that's it. I would really need to try a 1LE Camaro to have more credibility, but I'm not interested in the Camaro for other reasons.
Now that I've driven a bunch of new and newish cars it's the new normal.
I was going to say, over the Miata's life what has matched up in handling for the $$$? Only thing I can think of is the MR-S and now the BRZ. It's always been its own thing.
GTI/R, FiST/FoST, Camaro/Mustang, entry level lux like the ATS, Civic Si, Elantra Sport... there are some fun things
"Elantra Sport" :lol:
Maybe it's because I spent several years driving vehicles with no steering feel whatsoever, between my '11 Mustang and Jetta, but the new Mustang's steering is pretty good. Not only does it weight up well, but you actually feel stuff transmitting up to the wheel from the tires. It's not as pure and unfiltered as you get from an NA or NB Miata, but it doesn't feel as artificial as a number of EPAS cars I've driven. Not far off what I remember of my old gen1 Mazda3 (which had a hydraulic rack). I'd like to find an SN95 or '05-'10 Mustang GT and do a back-to-back comparison of steering feel. I suspect that the latest generation's EPAS is as good or better than the last hydraulic rack.
I'd also point out that if you're using an NA or NB Miata as your meter stick for good steering, you're going to have a hell of a time finding much that will match it among cars both of the same vintage and new. Even in the days before the proliferation of EPAS, the Miata's steering was among the cream of the crop. I've driven plenty of hydraulic-assisted cars from the 90s and early '00s that were as devoid of steering feel as a lot of newer, EPAS cars today.
I'm wondering if what a lot of people call steering feel is chassis feel. Civic's chassis is like a wet noodle, so while I do get a lot of feedback through the wheel I almost think I can feel the chassis twist under load too. With the G I pretty much get nothing besides what I can tell from the seat of my pants and the way the wheel loads.
Quote from: 12,000 RPM on May 19, 2017, 12:08:31 PM
I'm wondering if what a lot of people call steering feel is chassis feel. Civic's chassis is like a wet noodle, so while I do get a lot of feedback through the wheel I almost think I can feel the chassis twist under load too. With the G I pretty much get nothing besides what I can tell from the seat of my pants and the way the wheel loads.
Maybe. But there are definite differences in steering feel. When you change lanes on the highway, do you feel tugging through the steering as the front wheels pass in and out of grooves on the pavement? Do you feel the steering wheel go light when the fronts start to lose grip, like if you hit a wet patch or gravel on the road? That's steering feel. EPAS systems have gotten better as far as providing a fairly natural-feeling load-up as you turn in, but they often still lack feel or feedback. I'm convinced the sensation of loading up is just programmed into them, like a force-feedback video game wheel. When my last Mustang was losing front end grip, I knew through my ass, not the steering wheel, that grip was gone. And by the time your body senses it, you're firmly past the point of having lost front end grip. My Jetta's steering loads up as you dial in more steering angle, but it's independent of what's actually happening at the front wheels. I feel the same thing through the steering wheel whether the front wheels are plowing in terminal understeer on an icy road as if I was carving a sharp turn on dry asphalt. The feedback actually coming through the steering wheel is minimal or non-existent.
Think of how a go kart's steering behaves, as that is as unfiltered a steering experience as you will find. It not only loads up as you turn the wheel, but it goes light/limp as the front tires slip into understeer. It kicks back over imperfections, or if grip is lost and then regained. You can really feel and therefore balance on the friction limit. No power-assisted rack will ever be quite that pure, but some are better than others.
Yep. God I would kill for a kart rack in the 86 I drove. Or even an atom or Elise rack. So much information coming through to your hands. It's like your car is communicating with you about everything and makes even a mundane commute fun.
Driving this V6 Camaro is just boring when on the highway. I want to do something other than drive and just get off the road.
The mini, the miata have and I suspect an Elise would keep me involved and interested in a cruise down the highway.
Great handling can only be enjoyed when turning but a great steering rack keeps me invigorated even on a lonely Nevada highway.
Quote from: Rich on May 19, 2017, 01:08:54 PM
Yep. God I would kill for a kart rack in the 86 I drove. Or even an atom or Elise rack. So much information coming through to your hands. It's like your car is communicating with you about everything and makes even a mundane commute fun.
Driving this V6 Camaro is just boring when on the highway. I want to do something other than drive and just get off the road.
The mini, the miata have and I suspect an Elise would keep me involved and interested in a cruise down the highway.
Great handling can only be enjoyed when turning but a great steering rack keeps me invigorated even on a lonely Nevada highway.
Well, the average buyer doesn't want to contend with all of that steering feedback. Most people don't like to feel tramlining and nibbling through the steering wheel when cruising down the interstate. They want to be able to cruise along with one hand ever so lightly on the wheel while they sip a coffee or text their friends. Which is why most mainstream cars, even from the good-old-days of pure hydraulic assisted racks, had most of the steering feel dialed out.
And the truth is, a car that is darty on the highway, prone to bump steer, tramlining, or otherwise requires a fair bit of driver input just to keep it going in a straight line isn't necessarily a good thing, either. It's significantly more fatiguing over longer drives. I wouldn't really equate that with steering feel either, as a vehicle with numb steering and a bad alignment will do that too.
My Mustang tramlined quite a bit but the steering did not have the feedback the Miata does.
Quote from: Rich on May 19, 2017, 02:11:00 PM
My Mustang tramlined quite a bit but the steering did not have the feedback the Miata does.
Yeah, but Mustangs have never had much steering feel or feedback, even back when they had hydraulic assist.
Not sure what it is about Miatas that lends to their steering feel. I'm sure light weight is a big part of the equation (mass is very good at damping thing out). I also wonder how much tire diameter plays into it. Front tire diameter on a newer Mustang is over 4.25" larger than that of an NA or NB Miata. Couple of inches bigger than a 1st generation Cooper S or Elise as well. More rotating mass in the tire, and larger moment of inertia...
Our VW has great steering. Can be a bit sloppy due to being hella old, but replacing all the bushings turns it into something amazing. I attribute it to light weight, lack of overboosted assist, and skinny, short tires.
Its def nice to have a choice to dial back feedback for the daily grind or long trip. Fatigue management is key.