https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39734676/toyota-supra-manual-confirmed/
Not a whole lot of info yet, but this might be one of the last exciting (attainable) sports cars to be made.
That actually is exciting.
Though it's depressing to read that BMW's only manual cars left in the US are the M3 and M4. What happened? It's like watching lighthouses get turned off one by one. No more guiding light in the darkness of the automobile industry.
QuoteThe six-speed manual gearbox will be offered for the 382-hp turbocharged 3.0-liter inline-six, and the base 2.0-liter turbo-four will remain automatic-only.
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39843195/2023-toyota-supra-manual/
Quote from: Rich on April 28, 2022, 09:28:22 AM
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a39843195/2023-toyota-supra-manual/
That is surprising (to me anyway). I thought for sure they were going to offer it with the smaller engine only.
I see the manuels becoming the big buck ticket for OEMs.
Some predictions:
Currently: OEMs that currently sell Sports/sporty cars with manuels in the $50k-$150k range will drop manuels in all but big $$ cars (except for maybe the Miata/86?)
In 3-6 years: Porsche will remove a manuel on the 911, and will only include it with big ticket special editions (GT3, GTS, etc.)
6+ Years: OEMs that currently sell Sports/sporty cars with manuels in the $50k-$150k range will drop manuels, and cottage industry automakers (Singer, Gordon Murray, Pagani, Spyker, Morgan) will sell cars with a manuel at a much higher cost.
Probably one of the most appealing enthusiast cars at the moment.
Quote from: r0tor on April 28, 2022, 11:07:06 AM
Probably one of the most appealing enthusiast cars at the moment.
I don't know since I haven't driven them, but I have a gut feeling the 86 has more steering feedback. And no terbow lag. it's front end also looks better. YMMV
Quote from: Rich on April 28, 2022, 01:12:29 PM
I don't know since I haven't driven them, but I have a gut feeling the 86 has more steering feedback. And no terbow lag. it's front end also looks better. YMMV
86 is generally gutless and cheap feeling everywhere
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 06:38:08 AM
86 is generally gutless and cheap feeling everywhere
Different strokes for different folks. If they were priced the same, I'd take the 86
I would take a Supra over an 86 for the same price. But double the price? Not worth it.
86 will be better at the important things to me: steering feel, weight, overall nimbleness. Supra will be faster, but honestly, the gen 2 86 is plenty fast for street use.
By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 09:58:49 AM
By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice
Other than their age, lack of modern tech, warranty, etc
Gonna over pay for most 90s sports cars in like-new condition
Honestly I like my old (designed in the 90's) sports car without all the modern tech and stuff. A GR86 (and of course the BMW Supra) would certainly outperform my car, but I still like it. Its kind of nice to not have all the electronics and features of new cars when driving just for fun.
If I had to replace my old sports car the Miata and GR86/BRZ would be top of the list (but like 80-90% sure it would be Miata).
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 09:58:49 AM
By those definitions, most sports cars from the 90s and early 2000s would be a better choice
Yes, they would.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on April 29, 2022, 11:39:08 AM
Yes, they would.
They also all overheat after a few hard laps on a track and have brakes as resilient as ice cream... So is that what an enthusiast wants?
Nissan Z also has a manual.
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 11:49:27 AM
They also all overheat after a few hard laps on a track and have brakes as resilient as ice cream... So is that what an enthusiast wants?
Yes. If you want a race car, buy or build one. If you want a sports car, don't expect it to race.
And very few modern cars are much better by those standards anyways.
Most enthusiast grade modern cars can put up with track days. Things like M cars, Porsche's, ect.
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 01:21:20 PM
Most enthusiast grade modern cars can put up with track days. Things like M cars, Porsche's, ect.
And most cars of the same grade could do so just as well 20 years ago.
Strongly disagree. There have been massive gains in brake development, suspension, cooling, tires, ect that have resulted in improved cars.
Quote from: r0tor on April 29, 2022, 02:13:33 PM
Strongly disagree. There have been massive gains in brake development, suspension, cooling, tires, ect that have resulted in improved cars.
Not really. The gains in brakes and tires have largely been in pads and of course, tires. There's been some improvement in shocks; most gains have actually been improvements in electronic driver's aids, which aren't really improvements in the actual design.
Of course any car going to a track day on 20 year old tires, brakes, and shocks is asking to have a bad time.
Because I love me some supra
https://youtu.be/tNZ30cLKMno
Quote from: r0tor on May 19, 2022, 06:25:39 PM
Because I love me some supra
https://youtu.be/tNZ30cLKMno
I'm fast coming around to the Supra, it makes my heart hurt to see an automatic Mustang, but damn, the new Z looks fucking awesome from the side, rear, and rear 3/4. Front end is a bit blah, but stylistically, they have a winner.
Still, now that the Supra has a manual coming for the big engine, it might have become the most desirable car to me under $100K that's available new.
Quote from: r0tor on May 19, 2022, 06:25:39 PM
Because I love me some supra
https://youtu.be/tNZ30cLKMno
That was a really cool video. Never seen that channel before.
Quote from: giant_mtb on May 21, 2022, 09:59:56 AM
That was a really cool video. Never seen that channel before.
Hagerty videos with Jason Cammisa are probably the best production value car videos on youtube right now.
Some good ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7YqdGt19tw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JxuB4H6uCq8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXj7YZcsank
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acSdPy38XKU
And some ones that don't have huge production value, but have a ton of info and research in them, with a great driving segment at the end with just the sounds and visuals of the car and no one talking.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LKIYUGNNEWk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imsbLkTT9Ac
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xatzi2Whnjo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quLmDySyO7k
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Vs2tdR-9C8
So much better than the typical, Doug Demuro, Rati's rides, Shmee crap that is on youtube.
Yeah Hagerty YouTube channel and their magazine are my favorite car content now. I don't care much about basic crap about new cars anymore, and they do a good job of talking about the emotions, culture, travel, history, etc
They're like the video equivalent of my 2003 evo magazines. They bring back some of the ache I had for cars and culture during my high school and college years.
Is evo any good anymore, or did it get hollowed out along with all the other magazine industry?
Quote from: Laconian on May 22, 2022, 07:55:19 PM
They're like the video equivalent of my 2003 evo magazines. They bring back some of the ache I had for cars and culture during my high school and college years.
Is evo any good anymore, or did it get hollowed out along with all the other magazine industry?
No idea. I used to love it. My monthly Evo used to be a huge highlight in college, but I haven't looked an Evo in years.
Quote from: 565 on May 22, 2022, 02:49:47 PM
Hagerty videos with Jason Cammisa are probably the best production value car videos on youtube right now.
Some good ones
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXj7YZcsank
Really puts into perspective how crazy electric power is. And yet, it's amazing how those cars have no appeal to me whatsoever and I'd set fire to them both (which I'm sure the Tesla will do to itself soon anyway) to get my hands on the M5.
Also, "Plaid"? Who looked at fabric designs and thought "Hmm, plaid is the one that evokes the image of speed"? Names are dumb. Tesla is dumb. Electric performance cars are dumb, I hate them.
Quote from: Raza on June 04, 2022, 06:02:15 AM
Really puts into perspective how crazy electric power is. And yet, it's amazing how those cars have no appeal to me whatsoever and I'd set fire to them both (which I'm sure the Tesla will do to itself soon anyway) to get my hands on the M5.
Also, "Plaid"? Who looked at fabric designs and thought "Hmm, plaid is the one that evokes the image of speed"? Names are dumb. Tesla is dumb. Electric performance cars are dumb, I hate them.
Why Plaid:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0
it doesn't make it less dumb.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on June 04, 2022, 06:43:44 AM
Why Plaid:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ygE01sOhzz0
it doesn't make it less dumb.
And they had Ludicrous mode or something before, right?
At least they're referencing a good movie.
Elon has seen 2 movies and acts like a 12 year old. Everything is a reference to Space Balls or Total Recall.