Okay so I heard the 3L Duratec actually needs some modifications before it'll fit into the SVT Contour. And at this point, I'm trying to use the least amount of money I can. I don't know why I didn't think of this before but what if I dropped a 2.5L Duratec from a regular contour into the car? Shouldn't that just literally just fit when you put it in?
What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all
What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all
:devil:
That nobody knows exactly at this point since the engine hasn't been even opened yet. But all the places I've called said it's almost always cheaper just putting a new engine in than fixing a broken one
I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.
But let's keep the thread on topic okay?
Well, I'd find out what happened before I did anything.
Quote from: M_power on July 22, 2007, 08:29:30 PM
I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.
But let's keep the thread on topic okay?
Yes, the regular Duratec should fit in the car. I'm not positive whether it'd match up the the transmission and clutch or not, though. IIRC, SVT Contours had a different transmission from lesser Contours.
Quote from: M_power on July 22, 2007, 08:29:30 PM
I know what you guys are saying but if the mechanic takes off the top only to find that it's not fixable without taking out the engine, I would have wasted whatever labour cost.
Its not really a waste of labor.... if you replace the engine you might want to try and sell the old engine
What exactly is wrong with your current engine? Find out that first cause you might not need the new one after all
the transmission was the same thing as the non-SVT contours (MTX-75 tranny)
The 5 speed is the exact same thing. I wouldn't be complaining about the 5th gear in the regular V6 model if it wasn't.
As for the engine, like I said, the regular has 170 hp but almost the exact same amount of torque. The ECU should free up a bit more of the rev range in the old engine, and it shouldn't be too noticeable until you really beat the hell out of the car. The old 2.5 is less aggressive cams, a less free-flowing intake manifold, and a different ECU. I think those are the biggest differences.
I just sold my broken EJ18 for 1/4 the price I bought my new EJ18 for, so I made some of the money back. Believe me, someone will want to rebuild it if the price is right.
It kinda sucks you need this car up and running to get around, otherwise it would be a great project to rebuild the engine yourself.
try to keep the old engine with you so that you can see what is wrong and maybe fix it later when you have some money.
PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.
http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html
yeah, there are some simple mods to be done to put the 3 liter in there (like swapping oil pans, moving an alignment dowel, etc) but it's simple stuff. The cost of buying the 3 liter from a '99-up Taurus would be about the same as buying a 2.5 liter from another Contour. And you wouldn't lose power like you would going to the non-SVT. Of course, you could swap to the non-SVT engine and then use the SVT parts on a Taurus 3 liter as a project to build up in the meantime.
Sucks that the engine broke. I'd love to hear what the actual problem is And yeah, the BEST bet is to figure out what the issue is first before spending even more money and time swapping engines out.
Quote from: JWC on July 23, 2007, 04:31:36 AM
PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.
In this case, that's not true. The wiring harness remains the same, as the blocks are essentially the same and you'd be running the SVT upper end, intake and injection system. The guys that have done the swap have reported that their ECU works fine afterwards.
http://www.3lduratec.com/main.html
It wont cost too much to do a LITTLE investigating.
Pull the valve covers, timing cover, oil pan, etc...
I dunno about the 3.0L swap. Seems like too much of a project at this time.
I didn't know that the same 2.5L was in the Cougar. Perhaps finding another 2.5L wont be that hard after all.
Ed, not to beat a disfigured horse but what you should do is find out the extent of the damage to the engine. You might just need new heads and valvetrain, along with a tensioner, etc. Of course, you might have also put a hole in one of your pistons. But if it's just the heads you need that's a lot cheaper than a long block.
It sounds like, from the description I'm getting in PMs, that the engine is truly locked up, and it's most likely a bottom end problem. It won't turn over by hand or with the starter. I really doubt that anything on the top end would cause the situation being described, but there's always a possibility. Pull the pan and look at the connecting rods and crank, and pull the valve covers and inspect the cam, cam followers and valves to see if one is bent/stuck.
I'd also want to put a socket on the crank bolt in neutral and rock the engine back and forth to see if it's truly locked both directions or if it's merely hitting on something. At any rate, sounds like the engine will have to come out to fix it. But repairing the engine would be cheaper than replacing it and would come with a warranty. Something a used engine will not usually have. Also that would leave it being the SVT's engine, not a lower power "standard" V6.
Quote from: ChrisV on July 23, 2007, 11:05:34 AM
It sounds like, from the description I'm getting in PMs, that the engine is truly locked up, and it's most likely a bottom end problem. It won't turn over by hand or with the starter. I really doubt that anything on the top end would cause the situation being described, but there's always a possibility. Pull the pan and look at the connecting rods and crank, and pull the valve covers and inspect the cam, cam followers and valves to see if one is bent/stuck.
I'd also want to put a socket on the crank bolt in neutral and rock the engine back and forth to see if it's truly locked both directions or if it's merely hitting on something. At any rate, sounds like the engine will have to come out to fix it. But repairing the engine would be cheaper than replacing it and would come with a warranty. Something a used engine will not usually have. Also that would leave it being the SVT's engine, not a lower power "standard" V6.
Oh, I see. I was under the impression that the starter turned but the engine wouldn't start or something...oops.
Quote from: JWC on July 23, 2007, 04:31:36 AM
PCM and wiring harness will have to be changed if you swap engines.
Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.
Quote from: R-inge on July 23, 2007, 11:12:55 AM
Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.
Again, in this case, it's unnecessary, as you're talking either replacing it with the same engine block, or a SLIGHTLY larger displacement block. But all of the ancillaries, wiring, senders, intake, MAF, etc, etc are the same. The stock wiring harness would bolt right up.
Quote from: ChrisV on July 23, 2007, 11:15:00 AM
Again, in this case, it's unnecessary, as you're talking either replacing it with the same engine block, or a SLIGHTLY larger displacement block. But all of the ancillaries, wiring, senders, intake, MAF, etc, etc are the same. The stock wiring harness would bolt right up.
Hmm...well, I suppose you might be right, but the resident Ford service advisor seems to think there are significant differences. :huh:
Any updates yet M_Power?
Quote from: R-inge on July 23, 2007, 11:12:55 AM
Something people tend to miss when discussing motor swaps...and a huge pain in the arse.
You of all people should know that you don't always have to change the wiring harness (i.e. Subaru engines). You just have to when the engine is so completely different that it won't do anything properly. I'm betting that a lot of my swap problems came from not changing the ECU in my car because a lot of people say the 2.2 ECU will work with the 2.5 engine in my car and thus infered that the same was with the 1.8. Something tells me that this kind of swap, if he chose to go with it, wouldn't need a new wiring harness at all.
Quote from: the Teuton on July 23, 2007, 11:41:26 AM
You of all people should know that you don't always have to change the wiring harness (i.e. Subaru engines).? You just have to when the engine is so completely different that it won't do anything properly.? I'm betting that a lot of my swap problems came from not changing the ECU in my car because a lot of people say the 2.2 ECU will work with the 2.5 engine in my car and thus infered that the same was with the 1.8.? Something tells me that this kind of swap, if he chose to go with it, wouldn't need a new wiring harness at all.
Yeah, but Subaru is a different animal from most companies. You are probably right though.
Quote from: R-inge on July 23, 2007, 11:29:54 AM
Hmm...well, I suppose you might be right, but the resident Ford service advisor seems to think there are significant differences. :huh:
The resident Ford Service advisor put any 3.0s into SVTs before? None of the Contour/SVT owners who have done this have needed ECU swaps or wiring harness swaps. Why? because you don't replace the intake, MAF, heads, etc with Taurus parts, ONLY the short block, which uses the same knock sensor, same starter, same etc. You move the heads and intake/MAF over from the 2.5 liter SVT engine, as well as the timing/front cover. You also swap over the 2.5's oil pan and pickup, and move a couple of the alignment dowels on the back of the engine to mate up with the MTX-75.
And if you replace the SVT short black with another 2.5 liter short block, then nothing is changed in respect to the wiring harness or sensors.
We're not talking putting an LS1 in where an LT1 was. Or a 4.6 Cobra DOHC motor where a 4.6 SOHC was.
Quote from: ChrisV on July 23, 2007, 11:45:30 AM
The resident Ford Service advisor put any 3.0s into SVTs before? None of the Contour/SVT owners who have done this have needed ECU swaps or wiring harness swaps. Why? because you don't replace the intake, MAF, heads, etc with Taurus parts, ONLY the short block, which uses the same knock sensor, same starter, same etc. You move the heads and intake/MAF over from the 2.5 liter SVT engine, as well as the timing/front cover. You also swap over the 2.5's oil pan and pickup, and move a couple of the alignment dowels on the back of the engine to mate up with the MTX-75.
And if you replace the SVT short black with another 2.5 liter short block, then nothing is changed in respect to the wiring harness or sensors.
We're not talking putting an LS1 in where an LT1 was. Or a 4.6 Cobra DOHC motor where a 4.6 SOHC was.
Well, all of that works great if it's just the short-block he's swapping, I was thinking you meant a long-block. Again, another reason why Ed should check it out before trying a swap. If his heads are FUBAR then it won't matter, he'll either need to source out a couple of new heads along with a 3.0 shortblock, or get a new SVT long-block.
Turns out, if he swaps the 3.0 heads and all, he can swap in the SVT cams, and he has to swap on the SVT intake manifold/MAF/front cover, etc, but leave the Taurus long block alone. Again, all the sensors and the wiring harness stays the same (the SVT ECU runs the engine a touch rich as it is, and it matches the 3.0 perfectly). If his guy will drop in the 3.0 for $1200, I'd say go for it, with or without warranty, you know that the bottom end is good. 3.0 SVTs are all the rage, and what I would do with one regardless of engine condition...
Now I'm seeing guys start to swap the 3.5 liter Duratechs in there... 270+ hp with a stock engine where only 195 hp was is a good thing.. ;)
Quote from: ChrisV on July 23, 2007, 11:59:09 AM
turns out, if he swaps the 3.0 heads and all, he can swap in the SVT cams, and he has to swap on teh SVT intake manifold/MAF/front cover, etc, but leave the taurus long block alone again, all the sensors and the wiring harness stays the same (the SVT ECU runs the engine a touch rich as it is, and it matches the 3.0 perfectly). If his guy will drop in the 3.0 for $1200, I'd say go for it, with or without warranty, you know that the bottom end is good. 3.0 SVTs are all the rage, and what I would do with one regardless of engine condition...
Now I'm seeing guys start to swap the 3.5 liter Duratechs in there... 270+ hp with a stock engine where only 195 hp was is a good thing.. ;)
Heck yeah!
Can you use the 2.5 heads on the 3.5 motor? If so = :rockon:
Okay i need a detailed instruction of what needs to be swapped between the SVT engine and the 3.0L engine so that I can tell the mechanic exactly since he said he'll put whatever parts I want into the new engine (without charge i think).
I know that's alot to ask for but Chris is it possible for you to give me a detailed list (without using ETC)
I posted the link that explained it all.
http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html
Email that guy, as he's done it.
QuoteSwap all the 2.5L parts to the 3L block including the timing chain cover, oil pan and pickup tube. New head bolts, head gaskets from 3L engine, 2.5L timing chain cover gaskets (3) and oil pan gaskets are needed. Also the oil/water cooler has to be pulled from the 2.5L if from a SVT engine. Also use your car's ECU, harness and fuel system.
Only 99 (mine had a build date of late 98) and newer Duratecs from a Taurus will correctly connect to a MTX75.
The crank has to be ground down a little to make room for the MTX75 input shaft.
In the rear one of the alignment dowels has to be moved from its location to another hole to help align the installment of the MTX75 tranny. Also some of the oil and water return holes on the 2.5 L head will not align correctly with the 3L gasket and has to be "port matched". Easily done when using the 3 liter head gaskets to line up the holes.
im not sure whether i can get it right and make the 3L work at this point.
The 2.5L is alot simplier in terms of swapping parts and making it work right?
Well, you'll be swapping most of the same parts to put a 2.5 liter long or short block in. the SVT heads are ported, and of course they hold the hi performance SVT cams, so you want to use the heads again. You wouldn't have to swap oil pans, though but that's a small job and a minor concern. you want to swap over the SVT flywheel, too, as it's lighter than the regular 2.5 unit (and the 3 liter never had a flywheel, as they were all backed by automatics). And you want to swap over the SVT intake and MAF anyhow, regardless of 3.0 or 2.5.
I called the guy who said he'll do it for $1200 and talked to him about the mods that need to be done to make the hybrid 3L and he said he won't do it. But he'll swap the valve covers, SVT heads, and abit of other stuff into the non-SVT 2.5L engine for a couple of hundred dollars more
is it a big job to swap over the flywheel?
Then that's your best bet. He only has to find a good short block, which will be cheaper. And since the engine has to be out already to do the bottom end swap, bolting on the other flywheel is cake. Just a couple bolts.
well now that he wants $1500 + tax for the new 2.5L with some of the SVT parts in it, it puts the total basically at the same level as that other place who quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end rebuild. If it costed me the same, I'd go for the rebuild obviously over a 2.5L swap
so here is the list of what i need transferred to the non-SVT 2.5L if i do the swap:
valve covers
lower & upper intake manifolds
fuel injectors
heads
flywheel
what else am i missing
Quote from: M_power on July 23, 2007, 12:47:17 PM
so here is the list of what i need transferred to the non-SVT 2.5L if i do the swap:
valve covers
lower & upper intake manifolds
fuel injectors
heads
flywheel
what else am i missing
Oil/water cooler from the SVT, MAF, but that's about it.
I still think that the rebuild of what you have shouldn't be anywhere near $1500-2000. It seems really steep.
Is MAF = mass airflow sensor? :confused:
My gut is telling me that you should go with the rebuild vs frankenmotor.
Less unknowns and warranty.
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on July 23, 2007, 01:20:50 PM
My gut is telling me that you should go with the rebuild vs frankenmotor.
Less unknowns and warranty.
I'm leaning towards the rebuild as well if it's gonna be roughly the same price. The place that quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end crankshaft + bearing rebuild said they offer a 3 month warranty on the engine.
This sounds awfully interesting.
Quote from: ChrisV on July 23, 2007, 06:05:03 AM
http://www.geocities.com/svt_mondeo/3L.html
yeah, there are some simple mods to be done to put the 3 liter in there (like swapping oil pans, moving an alignment dowel, etc) but it's simple stuff. The cost of buying the 3 liter from a '99-up Taurus would be about the same as buying a 2.5 liter from another Contour. And you wouldn't lose power like you would going to the non-SVT. Of course, you could swap to the non-SVT engine and then use the SVT parts on a Taurus 3 liter as a project to build up in the meantime.
Sucks that the engine broke. I'd love to hear what the actual problem is And yeah, the BEST bet is to figure out what the issue is first before spending even more money and time swapping engines out.
Yea taking the goodies off the 2.5L and throwing them on the 3.0L sounds like a plan to me. The 3.0L goes for about $400-500... altogether I'd say you're in for about $1500-2000 worth of work if you get a competent mechanic.
I only made my comments based on experiences with other swaps. I can't say 100% that this would be the case here. Sometimes, the most logical choices for a swap get screwed up by computers and software calibrations.
Recently we swapped a transmission from a 2004 CV to a 2003 Crown Vic. Once installed, the transmission wouldn't shift. While the harness plugged right in, it was also one pin off. We spliced the wiring harness in from the 2004 to the 2003. It began shifting, but the MIL lighted up. Calibrations were different. A 2003 PCM wouldn't accept the 2004 software, so we swapped the PCM from the 2004, but the MAF specs are different, so we had to swap the MAF. Since the MAF has a different connector, we had to splice that harness into the car. After all that, it ran and shifted correctly. Still sets a code for a power steering sensor fault, logical since the 2003 doesn't have that sensor, but since that fault doesn't turn on the MIL and won't hold it back from passing its emissions test, we let it go.
If you are going to swap the whole engine over, not just the short block, I'd say there would be issues. But, just swapping the short block over and using components from your engine, including sensors, I would think it would work OK.
Ppsshhh....
I swapped in a 1998 KA24DE, and a 2001 RE04 trans with closer gears and Have had no issues. Both of those pasrts came from OBDII cars, while my car is OBDI, and I'm running aftermarket ECU software.
Quote from: M_power on July 23, 2007, 01:26:06 PM
I'm leaning towards the rebuild as well if it's gonna be roughly the same price. The place that quoted me 1500-2000 for a lower end crankshaft + bearing rebuild said they offer a 3 month warranty on the engine.
I'd have to agree. SVT Contours are becoming rare since so many of them have fallen into the wrong hands; kids who pick them up for peanuts, crash and thrash them and throw them away when they break. It's been a long time since I have seen a SVT Contour in good condition. Pity, because I always thought they were good (and seriously under-rated) cars.
I think it would be best to keep this car as original as possible and get the 2.5 litre SVT motor rebuilt. In the long run, you'll be glad you did. Someday these cars will be sought after by collectors and an original and correct SVT will always be more valuable than an altered car. If your going to keep it, you may as well do it right.
Madman of the People
Ironically, a guy has his car towed into the dealership today. A 1999 Contour SE 2.0 Zetec, 110,000 miles. Before he towed it in, it had the MIL on and according to Advance Auto, code P1383. Also according to Advance (and their readout) it was a generic misfire code/ignition problem. They sold him plugs, wires, and a coil. Evidently, he installed the parts right in the parking lot at Advance (college kids...geez). Drove out of the parking lot and the engine stalled and would not restart.
A code p1383, despite the readout from Advance, is a variable timing over advanced, bank one. Sometime tomorrow morning I get to call him with an estimate of how much this is going to cost him. I'm sure it won't be cheap. Hopefully for him, they sold him a bad coil.
Somehow, I don't think this guy is that lucky.
Quote from: Madman on July 31, 2007, 06:54:20 PM
I'd have to agree. SVT Contours are becoming rare since so many of them have fallen into the wrong hands; kids who pick them up for peanuts, crash and thrash them and throw them away when they break. It's been a long time since I have seen a SVT Contour in good condition. Pity, because I always thought they were good (and seriously under-rated) cars.
I think it would be best to keep this car as original as possible and get the 2.5 litre SVT motor rebuilt. In the long run, you'll be glad you did. Someday these cars will be sought after by collectors and an original and correct SVT will always be more valuable than an altered car. If your going to keep it, you may as well do it right.
Madman of the People
yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 07:59:54 PM
yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it
Tell them no, and just keep the car until you can afford to fix it urself :rolleyes:
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 08:03:54 PM
Tell them no, and just keep the car until you can afford to fix it urself :rolleyes:
my mom MIGHT consider that option, but i know my dad wont
186,834...a number just typed here to remind you that apparently all Contours aren't created equal.
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 08:06:53 PM
186,834...a number just typed here to remind you that apparently all Contours aren't created equal.
:rage:
i'd go beat you...but u'd probably put me in the hospital with a couple of punches :lol:
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 07:59:54 PM
yeah that's what i thought. The SVTC isn't just any car (it's not a exotic or anything but still rare) and I would love to keep it around with a rebuilt motor. Unfortunately, my parents won't give me the money so I'm gonna have to sell it
Do they realize that you are going to take a bath selling it??
Rebuilding the engine may not be a pretty repair bill, but its your best solution to get your moneys worth out of the car.
1... a number typed here to remind you of how many first cars you get
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 08:10:21 PM
1... a number typed here to remind you of how many first cars you get
Very good point. Nick, not to sound too sappy, but do you miss your first car, and what was it?
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on July 31, 2007, 08:09:27 PM
Do they realize that you are going to take a bath selling it??
Rebuilding the engine may not be a pretty repair bill, but its your best solution to get your moneys worth out of the car.
I'm gonna be taking losses whichever way I go. I'm roughly looking at losing 2 grand either way so might as well as just get rid of it now rather than later.
It's probably true that I should drive the car after getting the engine fixed to get the most out of my money (and with a fresh engine i dont think there'll be anything that big that comes up for a while - but the body does have 175k kms on it). If JWC is right about contours just seeming to fall apart past 110k miles, I might be in for a few more surprises - which I really don't want to and can't deal with.
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 08:12:52 PM
Very good point.? Nick, not to sound too sappy, but do you miss your first car, and what was it?
A god damn slow ass piece of shit that I didn't want but was glad to get anyway Suzuki Samurai. At least it was a manual, and had 4wd so I could go play in the snow, and was a soft top and therefore was somewhat fun in the summer. Nevertheless, what I really wanted was a car. At the time, that car was a 1990 Tercel hatchback for $1200, but my dad said no and made me get the Samurai for $1800. Go figure.
I don't really miss having it as an only car, although I did buy another one years later, just for go play with off road. I do think they are some of the best off road vehicles ever made.
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 08:10:21 PM
1... a number typed here to remind you of how many first cars you get
idiot...the word you use to describe someone who listened to their heart instead of head and got screwed over
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 08:20:53 PM
idiot...the word you use to describe someone who listened to their heart instead of head and got screwed over
idiot... the word you also use for people who make decisions with their cars based purely on financial reasons. Cars are never sound financial investments, and therefore should treated as such. That's why I am SRT-4-less right now. In retrospect, I could have gotten by without selling it, and I'd have it nearly paid off by now. Can you imagine me with a SRT-4 inste4d of a 'st33m!? Hells yes you can!
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 08:20:03 PM
If JWC is right about contours just seeming to fall apart past 110k miles, I might be in for a few more surprises - which I really don't want to and can't deal with.
186,834.
Here's what doesn't work on the car:
-headlights suck (fogged over)
-rear driver's side lock sometimes malfunctions when it feels like it
-fogs need replaced
-AC doesn't work (disconnected completely)
-muffler broken
Here's what works:
-power sunroof
-mirrors
-door locks
windows
-just about everything else
Is it this rare for a high mileage first year car to work so well?
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 08:26:50 PM
186,834.
Here's what doesn't work on the car:
-headlights suck (fogged over)
-rear driver's side lock sometimes malfunctions when it feels like it
-fogs need replaced
-AC doesn't work (disconnected completely)
-muffler broken
Here's what works:
-power sunroof
-mirrors
-door locks
windows
-just about everything else
Is it this rare for a high mileage first year car to work so well?
so basically the only thing that's gone wrong with your contour is the A/C? That's pretty impressive imo
btw, my headlights were like that too but I bought a $10 bottle of plastic cleaner/polish and it got rid of alot of it
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 08:23:37 PM
idiot... the word you also use for people who make decisions with their cars based purely on financial reasons. Cars are never sound financial investments, and therefore should treated as such. That's why I am SRT-4-less right now. In retrospect, I could have gotten by without selling it, and I'd have it nearly paid off by now. Can you imagine me with a SRT-4 inste4d of a 'st33m!? Hells yes you can!
sigh. Well I'll float the rebuild and keep idea with my parents.
It'll sound something like this: "Since other SVTC's with more kms are selling at about 7k from dealerships, why don't we just say we bought it for that price. But we actually only paid $4600 for it, we should have been out another $2400. So why don't we just get the engine rebuild and let me keep the car"
I'll probably get this look from my parents : :confused: and they'll say "wtf?"
I just don't see the car being unreliable enough that it will break again after you get the engine fixed. The car has proven to be very reliable.
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 08:10:21 PM
1... a number typed here to remind you of how many first cars you get
What he said.^
:rockon:
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 08:33:58 PM
I just don't see the car being unreliable enough that it will break again after you get the engine fixed. The car has proven to be very reliable.
well the only major thing I'd worry about other than the engine is the A/C - which i never even used while I had it. I just had the sunroof and windows down.
After the engine is rebuilt, the only thing I have to watch out for I think is the notorious oil starvation while taking hard right turns
well i just suggested it to my mom and she cut me off middle of the idea and said no
The engine will be brand new and under warranty. This is a little ridiculous. It's one thing if you don't have the means to do so, and that's completely respectable, but it's another to sell a piece of junk because of a blind notion that the same things will happen again.
my mom said she just doesn't want to deal with anything that could go wrong after. Then i said if she gives me the explorer, anything could go wrong with that too but she said that's a different story :rolleyes:
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
my mom said she just doesn't want to deal with anything that could go wrong after. Then i said if she gives me the explorer, anything could go wrong with that too but she said that's a different story :rolleyes:
But it's not a different story. It's an Exploder, and it could tip over very easily. Not very safe for a new driver, or anyone for that matter. :nono:
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 10:20:30 PM
But it's not a different story. It's an Exploder, and it could tip over very easily. Not very safe for a new driver, or anyone for that matter. :nono:
i haven't died in it...yet
You have any sets of Firestone Wildness or ATX tires circa 1998 laying around?
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 10:23:40 PM
You have any sets of Firestone Wildness or ATX tires circa 1998 laying around?
That's Firestone Wilderness AT in the 235/75/15 size. I should know, I worked at a tire place during the recall. :praise:
Back on topic: Used cars have problems. It happens. I don't see why she's being this discouraging. I just don't think you're trying hard enough, Eddie.
Quote from: the Teuton on July 31, 2007, 10:28:50 PM
Back on topic: Used cars have problems. It happens. I don't see why she's being this discouraging. I just don't think you're trying hard enough, Eddie.
See, it seems my mom can't take that anymore. She was very much against used cars to begin with (we picked up our explorer very slightly used at a good deal, but my mom nearly just said no but my dad bought it anyway :lol: ) but she let me buy the contour anyway. She nearly bought a Sonata just so that I wouldn't buy an used car. And now that the car needs a rather expensive repair job, my mom refuses to trust used cars.
We haven't had a new car since 1996 and it was a POS, sort of. Used can be as good as new if you know how and where to shop.
yeah me and my dad know that. But my dad's against me on this one as well. And the fact that he's only around for a few weeks during the yr means my mom gets to decide where the money goes
I've had many a used car, and none of them were $4600 either. The worst thing I ever needed was a $600 transmission rebuild. It was just very very bad luck, Ed, and it's not likely to happen again.
:cry:
u cry like baby :rolleyes:
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 10:40:16 PM
:cry:
Eddie, I know how you feel. I felt the same way for 5 months. My car was worth just enough to justify replacing a relatively cheap engine, though.
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 10:42:03 PM
u cry like baby :rolleyes:
dont make me go break j00r bike
If it makes u feel better, I'd rebuild the 'st33m engine if it asploded. :huh:
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 10:44:03 PM
If it makes u feel better, I'd rebuild the 'st33m engine if it asploded. :huh:
is it worth a rebuilt engine?
Quote from: NACar on July 31, 2007, 10:44:03 PM
If it makes u feel better, I'd rebuild the 'st33m engine if it asploded.? :huh:
Then again, hamster wheels are cheap and plentiful...
:lol:
Quote from: JWC on July 31, 2007, 07:13:48 PM
Evidently, he installed the parts right in the parking lot at Advance (college kids...geez).
Happens all the time here, not just with college kids.
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 08:20:03 PM
If JWC is right about contours just seeming to fall apart past 110k miles, I might be in for a few more surprises - which I really don't want to and can't deal with.
I'm calling B.S. on that one!
My mother has a 2000 Mercury Mystique GS with the 2.0 Zetec and automatic. Her car has been VERY reliable. It is, hands down, the best Ford product anyone in my family has ever had. And my parents have had LOTS of Fords and Lincolns! It is now at 150,000 miles and the only unexpected repairs this car has ever needed were a fuel pump and an oxygen sensor. I think that's pretty damn good by anyone's standards, and I'm not even a Ford fan. So, this rubbish that "all Contours (and Mystiques) fall apart after 110,000 miles" is pure bull.
Madman of the People
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
my mom said she just doesn't want to deal with anything that could go wrong after. Then i said if she gives me the explorer, anything could go wrong with that too but she said that's a different story :rolleyes:
Typical woman.
Not to stereotype here, but you could write everything the average woman knows about cars on the back of a postage stamp. They either buy or directly influence the buying decisions of at least three-quarters of all cars sold and yet they know almost nothing about them. Want to know why there are so many mediocre crapboxes clogging up our roads? Blame it on women.
Sure there are a few rare exceptions but, for the most part, women are dangerously ignorant when it comes choosing, operating and maintaining an automobile.
Both your parents seem to be extremely short-sighted about this whole situation. A rebuilt engine will, in the long run, be more economical than dumping the Contour and buying another car. All cars require repairs and maintenance. None are immune to unexpected mechanical failures. What on Earth makes them think an Explorer, Sonata or anything else they want to put you into will never break?
If you ask me, your parents seem to be extremely controlling. The fact that you father wants to dictate what you should do, without even considering all options (or even taking your opinion into account) tells me this is a very dysfunctional relationship. I'm not sure how old you are, but I think it's time for you to take a stand. If you have to get the car fixed without their help, then so be it. You an get an extra part-time job (at least temporarily) to raise the cash. Store the car at a friend's house if you must. Just don't let yourself be bullied into doing anything you don't want to do.
Madman of the People
Quote from: M_power on July 31, 2007, 10:18:58 PM
my mom said she just doesn't want to deal with anything that could go wrong after. Then i said if she gives me the explorer, anything could go wrong with that too but she said that's a different story :rolleyes:
Explorer :confused:
F that, from a gas mileage point of view alone.
Whats the financial situation here anyway?
If they aren't footing the bill for the majority of the car cost then I would simply tell them that you appreciate their help, etc... BUT, if you are going to be contributing a good chunk of coin to this vehicle then it makes sense that you should get what YOU want.
Quote from: VTEC_Inside on August 01, 2007, 01:58:50 PM
Explorer :confused:
F that, from a gas mileage point of view alone.
Whats the financial situation here anyway?
If they aren't footing the bill for the majority of the car cost then I would simply tell them that you appreciate their help, etc... BUT, if you are going to be contributing a good chunk of coin to this vehicle then it makes sense that you should get what YOU want.
Well...for the rebuild right now I have absolutely no money. (No money to the point I have to borrow money to buy a friend's birthday gift for this weekend) So my parents basically have full control in terms of finances behind the rebuild. For the car, I'm supposed to pay them back the full amount sooner or later
IMO, since you are paying them back its a slight bit inconsiderate of them to make you sell the car.
Again, its great that they are now also loaning you the money for the rebuild, but had that not come up, you'd be paying them back as planned and there would be no question about keeping the car or not.
If they don't expect you to repay them the cost of the rebuild, thereby the amount you owe them stays equal then they have the right to make the suggestion that you sell, but...
It just makes absolutely no sense to sell after the rebuild. As has been covered here, any maintanence items to come up afterwards are going to be small in comparisson.
Re: your moms stance on used cars. I bought my Accord as a 10yr old with 213,000kms and I'm comming up on 400,000kms now. Sure its had its moments, but nothing drastic.
The Contour towed in has jumped timing. We won't know the exact cause until we tear it down. I won't know until Monday since I'm gone on location for the next three days....(other job).
Yes, two people on this board have had good luck with Contours, one with a Honda, but to me that's apples and oranges.
I've made it no secret that I don't care for Contours, even advising not to buy one, so take that into consideration with the following thought...
If you keep the Contour, anything that happens from here on, you're going to hear the infamous "Son, I told you to get rid of that car to begin with".
If you take a car she gives you, anything that happens to it, falls on her. She can't say "I told you so".
Great points, JWC, but I can't help but think that my brother's car has been downright neglected. He's not a car person and the only time he will be is when he buys something and watches as I fix it or change the oil or whatever.
The car is something like 1,500 miles over when it probably should have had the oil changed, and this is by no means the first time. Yet, the car still keeps on running...
It has almost the same exact engine as Eddie's SVT except it doesn't breathe as well and it has a differently tuned ECU. It's still a Duratec 2.5, though. I find the car to be reliable, safe, and trusty, as it has never left us stranded. It has more than 300,000 km on it, and it just won't die.
I just can't help but think that you're a little biased against the Contour or the Duratec 2.5 that it clouds your thoughts as to why the engine is not worth saving or rebuilding. It, along with all of the other modular V6 engines, is a great engine. No one has really complained about the 3.0, 3.5, etc. When you read consumer review mags, everyone says don't buy the Vulcan V6 -- go for the Duratec instead in the Taurus. The Zetec is in no way related to the Duratec other than a few shared parts. The car you're working with is an I4 model.
In saying this, if you maintain the engine properly, it should run extremely well. The previous owner knew what he was doing when he sold Eddie a defective car and Eddie really should have gotten it checked out my a good mechanic, but hindsight is always 20/20. If the car had been maintained to a proper standard, this probably would have never happened. It's giving up on the problem because he inherited it -- not created it.
Eddie, you're mom doesn't know or realize the fiscal mistakes she's making. If you're going to have to pay someone back at some point anyway, what will happen if your mom buys the Sonata? Are you going to have to pay her back $17,000? Are you going to have to buy the Explorer from her?
Read a used car mag and it will tell you that the Explorer is no more reliable than a Contour. It will die at some point, too, but what are you going to do when that happens?
well right now we're trying to just sell the car (hopefully at 3 grand but i think my parents will go under that just to get rid of it). And whatever we lost, my parents will probably make me pay back to them.
As for the explorer, if she buys the sonata, she'll just let me take the explorer without having to pay her. But the thing is I think my dad wants to replace the explorer with a Veracruz when the financing on the explorer ends (feb/08) - which i dont agree with anyhow. And i highly doubt my parents want to take on double car payments so i have no idea what's going on.
Ask and have them explain in full, coherent sentences what they want to see happen.
right now, they want the car sold. No question about that.
That's unfortunately short-sighted, but understandable.
there's a guy who wants to see the car on friday so hopefully we can work something out :cry:
The only issue I have with mechanics telling you they don't like a car because they see broken ones is this: then never see non-broken ones due to the nature of their business. For every broken one they see, there are thousands of perfectly fine ones that don't have to GO to a mechanic. When you only see broken ones it's easy to become jaded. Does that make sense?
Quote from: ChrisV on August 02, 2007, 04:57:57 AM
The only issue I have with mechanics telling you they don't like a car because they see broken ones is this: then never see non-broken ones due to the nature of their business. For every broken one they see, there are thousands of perfectly fine ones that don't have to GO to a mechanic. When you only see broken ones it's easy to become jaded. Does that make sense?
I'm just one dealership and a small one. I believe in my PM to Mpower when he asked about Contours, I said they have issues and are expensive to repair.
If I was jaded by broken down vehicles, I tell people never buy a Ford. I never see a Chevy, Toyota, Mazda, etc. Of course, we are an odd dealership, in that we only sell Fords...rarely does the owner keep a "foreign" make like Chevy or Dodge.
More specifically, I'd tell people to stay away from 2001-2004 Explorers. I see a lot of problems with them, mostly noisy rear diffs. Yet, despite the noise, the never break...just whine.
I'm getting my daughter a Focus. Despite their reputation (online rep, there used to be a website devoted just to Focus brake problems), I regularly see them with over 120,000 miles and no engine or transmission repairs, no window motor repairs, no electrical shorts, no common MIL faults, etc. I will not buy a 2000 or 2001 Focus. Those were plagued with recalls and quality issues, yet I've seen some with 160,000 miles on them.
When I look at a used car, I start with a list of desired vehicles and condition. I look at potential repair costs, insurance cost, and fuel economy...in that order. I ruled against the Contour when Mpower PMed me because, based on experience, it failed on repair cost and known issues.
At the risk of sounding like I'm saying "I told you so"....I feel that I've been proven correct in my assessment of Contours. You can dismiss my comments to Mpower about bailing on the car, but I don't want to see him get into a situation at home where every time the car breaks, Mom and Dad give him hell for keeping it. At his age, he needs to roll with the punches and do as they say.
One option, if he really wants to keep the car, is to pay them back, keep the car and accept the Explorer, for now, to get to work, school and back....if they allow that. He can take the insurance off of the Contour, park it, and fix it little by little as money allows. By the time he is ready to move out of the house, go to college, He'll have the Contour, he'll be on his own, and he won't have to listen to them.
It's just that if I listened to all the mechanics I know, there wouldn't be a make or model of car left to choose from. Especially not the fun, desireable models.
When you get involved with a brand, you hear horror stories about it -- even Toyota. You wouldn't believe how many sidelined 1993-2001 Subarus I've heard about with problems. Every make has problems, and some are far more severe than others.
If I listened to a mechanic, I would never want to EVER buy a WRX because the transmissions are shit and break too easily. OTOH, Roy's car has been problem free, but it's only a year old.
Used cars have problems. Period. It's what you do to maintain them and keep them up to spec when they're in your hands that makes the difference.
You will lose more money on the sale than what it will cost to get it fixed. Regardless of what the book price on a non-running car will be, most people that will actually buy such a vehicle are looking for a bargain or a car they can fix and resell at a profit. Basically this means paying as little as possible for it. For a vehicle like that, I figure you're probably looking at offers of less than $1200. It may be an SVT, but its certainly no Cobra or Lightning.
Most of my experiences with used cars had to deal with ones with automatic transmissions. I solve that by buying used vehicles with manual transmissions. Unless the motor blows up, worst thing I'm usually faced with is a clutch replacement.