BMW 1 Series Priced Less Than $30,000
BMW's new 1 Series coupe will have a base price including destination of $29,375 for the 128i and $35,675 for the 135i. The 128i is powered by a 230-hp inline-six that can hit 60 mph from a standstill in 6.1 seconds with the manual transmission, while the 135i does the run a whole second quicker. Under the 135i's hood sits the BMW's 300-hp twin-turbo six-cylinder.
The coupe hits dealerships in spring 2008, and a convertible version of the 1 Series will be shown at the Detroit auto show in January.
If the 128i was 2-3k less expensive I'd seriously look into trading the MINI for it, but it's not, so I won't :lol:
123d > 128i
I will be seriously considering trading my GTI in for a 128i.
My guess is, which "standard" options, the 128i coupe will be roughly 35k, while a comparably 328i coupe would be well over 40k (actually on the build it youself thing, a 328i with the options I want...not including Nav...has an MSRP of about 42.5k).
Scheisse, that's expensive.
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2007, 07:56:48 AM
Scheisse, that's expensive.
It shall be $6,703,556 when it launches here. A real bargain!
Wow, OVERLY pricey. 35k CAD, I presume.
:shrug:
Last time i built a 335 sedan with options i wanted(granted i didn't go nuts on worthless crap) it came out at around 42K IIRC.
The 135 doesn't seem priced that well, granted it has 5K built into it on the badge alone.
The 128 does seem like a "better" deal. 230HP RWD coupe for 30K doesn't sound too bad. Then again the new tib thats supposed to be coming out will have similar power/weight and likely performance.
I guess you have to pay(for the badge) to play.
That's a bit much for that little car, but it's the US, so BMW can't let themselves be too cheap, I guess.
Intresting..although due to its size, what small RWD car is there that it competes with that's not similiar to a Solstice/Sky or something along those lines?
Quote from: TheIntrepid on November 15, 2007, 08:11:57 AM
Wow, OVERLY pricey. 35k CAD, I presume.
Only in the sense that all BMWs are overpriced.
The 1-series coupe looks to be roughly 5-6k cheaper than a comparably equipped 3-series coupe, which the exact same drivetrain, a smaller size, and lower weight.
To all the people that liked the 3-series but complained it was now too big and too heavy, this should be an ideal car. Cheaper, smaller, lighter...but the same exact power and virtually the same chassis/suspension/wheels.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on November 15, 2007, 08:54:56 AM
:shrug:
Last time i built a 335 sedan with options i wanted(granted i didn't go nuts on worthless crap) it came out at around 42K IIRC.
The 135 doesn't seem priced that well, granted it has 5K built into it on the badge alone.
The 128 does seem like a "better" deal. 230HP RWD coupe for 30K doesn't sound too bad. Then again the new tib thats supposed to be coming out will have similar power/weight and likely performance.
I guess you have to pay(for the badge) to play.
The 135i isn't a sedan, its a coupe. Its Apples and Oranges to compare it to the 3-series sedan, which is cheaper than the coupe.
If you seriously expect a Hyundai to have similar performance to BMW I think you are setting yourself up for failure. Just because its RWD doesn't mean it will handle like a BMW 9or even particularly well). My brother's Tiburon doesn't handle anything like my GTI, for example, despite being much ilghter and lower to the ground.
Hyundai has shown no aptitude for building perofrmance vehicles. I'm not sure why people (and its not just you, I realize that) expect Hyundai's first RWD coupe will automatically match what is generally considered the best (or nearly the best) handling cars on the market.
Certainly, the Sonata is not as good as an Accord, Mazda6, or Altima and Hyundai has a lot more experience building FWD sedans.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 10:34:16 AM
The 135i isn't a sedan, its a coupe. Its Apples and Oranges to compare it to the 3-series sedan, which is cheaper than the coupe.
If you seriously expect a Hyundai to have similar performance to BMW I think you are setting yourself up for failure. Just because its RWD doesn't mean it will handle like a BMW 9or even particularly well). My brother's Tiburon doesn't handle anything like my GTI, for example, despite being much ilghter and lower to the ground.
Hyundai has shown no aptitude for building perofrmance vehicles. I'm not sure why people (and its not just you, I realize that) expect Hyundai's first RWD coupe will automatically match what is generally considered the best (or nearly the best) handling cars on the market.
Certainly, the Sonata is not as good as an Accord, Mazda6, or Altima and Hyundai has a lot more experience building FWD sedans.
I was more or less stating that bmw is not going to be the only occupant of this segment(small affordable rwd performance coupes).
Hyundai is entering, the domestics(GM Mainly) are looking(and going) to enter. Japanese companies have been in this segment and are toying with a return(toyota, nissan). All of which will no doubt be cheaper, and some of which(probobly not hyundai) will be able to match the performance(handling too) of the BMW.
Also when i mentioned performance for the tib i was talking power specs and 0-60 numbers. I'm no hyundai fan, i am however aware that they are capable of making great strides over their current product. They seem to be bettering themselves everytime. Anyway i'm just saying that no matter what my feelings are about them or their products it would be foolish to believe that they could NEVER produce an equal or superior product in any segment.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 10:29:10 AM
Only in the sense that all BMWs are overpriced.
The 1-series coupe looks to be roughly 5-6k cheaper than a comparably equipped 3-series coupe, which the exact same drivetrain, a smaller size, and lower weight.
To all the people that liked the 3-series but complained it was now too big and too heavy, this should be an ideal car. Cheaper, smaller, lighter...but the same exact power and virtually the same chassis/suspension/wheels.
Lighter, but only just.
Quote from: Schadenfreude on November 15, 2007, 09:44:26 AM
Intresting..although due to its size, what small RWD car is there that it competes with that's not similiar to a Solstice/Sky or something along those lines?
It's within 50 lbs of the Mustang GT and costs $5000 more.
Quote from: Schadenfreude on November 15, 2007, 09:44:26 AM
Intresting..although due to its size, what small RWD car is there that it competes with that's not similiar to a Solstice/Sky or something along those lines?
Mustang GT might be larger, but it's a lot cheaper. BMW decided that since this was to be a BMW, it would be RWD, and they sold it as a hatch first, and it was the only RWD hatch. So, it's not surprising that, especially in the US, there aren't many direct competitors for it.
BMW's website (UK and international) doesn't seem to like to list the interior dimensions of the car, and MSN Autos UK doesn't have them either, so I can't make a direct comparison, but almost every review I've read of the 1 series hatchbacks hasn't been too keen on rear seat space. That's one of the reasons cars this size are either FWD or two seaters. RWD makes packaging tough, and if you're going to be small and impractical, you might as well go completely selfish and make it a two seat car like the 350Z.
I do like this car; it's the first actually good looking BMW to come out in years, and the biggest problem I have with one is that I can't afford it.
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2007, 11:55:22 AM
I do like this car; it's the first actually good looking BMW to come out in years, and the biggest problem I have with one is that I can't afford it.
(http://edbmw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/thumb-wall11.jpg)
(http://www.e90post.com/forums/uploadedimages/e92coupeimage.jpg)
There's no way I could convince myself that the 1-series looks better than the 3 :huh:
I hate the 3 series coupe, actually. If you came at me with the Z4 coupe, you'd have an argument.
I'm not a fan of the 3-Series coupe, but that 1-Series coupe has the roofline of the original Beetle.
umm...what's there to hate? It's seriously as inoffensive as it gets without being bland.
Quote from: Vinsanity on November 15, 2007, 12:07:30 PM
umm...what's there to hate? It's seriously as inoffensive as it gets without being bland.
It's got that bloated new car look, and that super long rear end. I very much prefer the sedan, and I don't even like that all that much.
Quote from: FordSVT on November 15, 2007, 11:21:25 AM
It's within 50 lbs of the Mustang GT and costs $5000 more.
I think you would have to get them on a scale to know that for sure. As we've seen in other comparisons, BMW published weights are no necessarily using the same scale as other manufacturers.
Example:
335i Published Weight: 3571
C&D Measured Weight: 3366
Ford GT500 Published Weight (from edmunds, Ford's mustang site doesn't list weight): 3920
C&D Measured Weight: 3908
Based on that, if the published weight of a Mustang GT is
The 1 Series looks quite similar to the 3 so I'm surprised you hate one and like the other.
The main differences are the lights, the odd roofline and the overdone lines on the side, none of which do the 1-Series any favours.
Personally I think the 3-series looks better, but I generally prefer to drive smaller cars.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on November 15, 2007, 12:13:50 PM
The 1 Series looks quite similar to the 3 so I'm surprised you hate one and like the other.
The main differences are the lights, the odd roofline and the overdone lines on the side, none of which do the 1-Series any favours.
I don't think they're very similar at all.
Quote from: Raza on November 15, 2007, 12:11:01 PM
It's got that bloated new car look, and that super long rear end. I very much prefer the sedan, and I don't even like that all that much.
Well to me, the 1-series looks like a midget version of the 3-series. Fine, if you're into midgets :huh:
Quote from: Vinsanity on November 15, 2007, 12:18:09 PM
Well to me, the 1-series looks like a midget version of the 3-series. Fine, if you're into midgets :huh:
Well, luckily I don't need to convince you, I just need to convince myself. And I've already done that.
$29k can get you a lot of car in this marketplace. This car, even for a Bimmer, is about $3-4k overpriced IMO.
It looks like it's back to 2002 wishes and Porsche dreams for me then.
Crap. This was not the price I had in mind.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2007, 12:44:23 PM
$29k can get you a lot of car in this marketplace. This car, even for a Bimmer, is about $3-4k overpriced IMO.
It looks like it's back to 2002 wishes and Porsche dreams for me then.
You were expecting BMW to sell a RWD car with a 230 HP I6 for 26-27k? Seriously? :confused:
You guys sound like you were expecting BMW to build you a RWD WRX/GTI/Mazdaspeed3 competitor? Do you guys know that BMW also builds and sells Minis?
Its a BMW that will sell for approximately 5k less than the 3-series and offer as much, or more, performance and (IMHO) a better (re: smaller) package.
The only way I can see someone not liking this is if they didn't like BMW to begin with. And in that case...oh well, not much BMW can do about that.
This price is almost exactly where I thought it would be. Frankly, there is not much room to price it lower (unless they give it a smaller engine and take out even more equipment). If they go too low...what is the point of Mini?
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 01:39:08 PM
You were expecting BMW to sell a RWD car with a 230 HP I6 for 26-27k? Seriously? :confused:
You guys sound like you were expecting BMW to build you a RWD WRX/GTI/Mazdaspeed3 competitor? Do you guys know that BMW also builds and sells Minis?
Its a BMW that will sell for approximately 5k less than the 3-series and offer as much, or more, performance and (IMHO) a better (re: smaller) package.
The only way I can see someone not liking this is if they didn't like BMW to begin with. And in that case...oh well, not much BMW can do about that.
This price is almost exactly where I thought it would be. Frankly, there is not much room to price it lower (unless they give it a smaller engine and take out even more equipment). If they go too low...what is the point of Mini?
I like the car, but I was expecting it to take off where the MINI left off at about $26-7k. For the money, I'd be looking at Mustang GTs or talking to my local Chevy dealer about a Camaro.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 15, 2007, 01:42:16 PM
I like the car, but I was expecting it to take off where the MINI left off at about $26-7k. For the money, I'd be looking at Mustang GTs or talking to my local Chevy dealer about a Camaro.
Okay. I am sure they will miss your business.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 01:46:43 PM
Okay. I am sure they will miss your business.
Speaking that I have a few more years before I'm in the market, I'm sure I could find one on the used market at a reasonable price in the near future.
I agree with SJ. I think the pricing is just right.
I paid 29.6K for my 325i in Feb 2005. 128i should have similar interior room, with more power. For around 30K, sounds reasonable to me.
However, I am ready to pull the plug on all ICEs. White Star from Tesla is something I am eagerly waiting for. Supposed to be around 50K, 4 doors, midsize and electric.
Quote from: red_shift on November 15, 2007, 02:47:35 PM
I paid 29.6K for my 325i in Feb 2005. 128i should have similar interior room, with more power. For around 30K, sounds reasonable to me.
However, I am ready to pull the plug on all ICEs. White Star from Tesla is something I am eagerly waiting for. Supposed to be around 50K, 4 doors, midsize and electric.
I'm assuming you paid below MSRP. Most BMW's can be had with pretty good discounts believe it or not. There is a lot of room between inoice and MSRP.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 01:39:08 PM
This price is almost exactly where I thought it would be. Frankly, there is not much room to price it lower (unless they give it a smaller engine and take out even more equipment). If they go too low...what is the point of Mini?
1) Not everybody lives near a Mini dealership. There isn't a Mini dealer within 2 hours of me (100 miles). There are at least 2 BMW dealers within 50 miles.
2) Not everybody likes the looks of the Mini (I happen to like it, but it's not everybody's cup of tea). Some of us would prefer a coupe to a 2-box hatch.
3) Some of us prefer RWD to FWD.
Give us the 120d, damnit!
Quote from: SaltyDog on November 15, 2007, 04:54:35 PM
Give us the 120d, damnit!
A 140d would be cooler (you know, two 120d engines put together to make a V8 :devil: )
Quote from: NACar on November 15, 2007, 04:58:46 PM
A 140d would be cooler (you know, two 120d engines put together to make a V8 :devil: )
Now we're talkin...
I don't like the 1-series as much as the 3-series. I remember when the E92 came out I thought it was hideous, but now it's grown on me and I think it's one of the best looking cars out there. :huh: :rockon:
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 03:50:04 PM
I'm assuming you paid below MSRP. Most BMW's can be had with pretty good discounts believe it or not. There is a lot of room between inoice and MSRP.
MSRP for a similar configuration was around 32.5K, so yes, I paid below that. Most BMW dealerships in bay area don't negotiate though. I bought mine through carsdirect.
A 130i hatch costs a touch more than a 350Z Touring here (around AUD$63k), so it would be reasonable to assume a 128i coupe to be priced somewhere around that mark; maybe a touch higher
Thus, given a base 350Z with MSRP of USD$27,980, an extra $1400 for the 128i seems consistent with what I'd expect.
A touch too much IMO, considering that my car was under $31K (the 3er has gotten more expensive, though). But if that's what the accountants say, that's what they're going to do.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on November 15, 2007, 11:18:00 AM
Lighter, but only just.
I would consider 200lbs a significant amount, wouldn't you (numbers lifted from BMW's website)?
Quote from: FordSVT on November 15, 2007, 11:21:25 AM
It's within 50 lbs of the Mustang GT and costs $5000 more.
This is probably closer to 250lbs when the weight discrepancy that SJ noted is accounted for. BMW includes driver and fuel when quoting their weight, something Ford does not do IIRC.
I wish it was that close, it would give me more reason to go with the Mustang.
Quote from: Vinsanity on November 15, 2007, 12:03:01 PM
(http://edbmw.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/thumb-wall11.jpg)
(http://www.e90post.com/forums/uploadedimages/e92coupeimage.jpg)
There's no way I could convince myself that the 1-series looks better than the 3 :huh:
I think this debate is usually split 50/50. Those that like the E90/2 are usually new to the brand because that car definately is much less "BMW" than the e82 in appearance, at least IMO. For example, the e82 resembles the old e30 far more than the e90/2 from almost every angle. I was raised on older BMWs so this car is one of the few recently that recreates that language in any kind of way. The tall greenhouse so often commented on was a styling cue on ALL BMW sedans for a LONG time. It was only until very recently did the more turret like look of the e90/2 come into play.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
i'd take the 135 over the 335 coupe in styling anytime... the 3er coupe just looks awkward to me, especially from the B pillar back
I'd rather be seen in a Scion that one of those overpriced Kraut cars. :rolleyes:
Quote from: r0tor on November 16, 2007, 05:42:28 AM
i'd take the 135 over the 335 coupe in styling anytime... the 3er coupe just looks awkward to me, especially from the B pillar back
And I feel just the opposite, the 3er coupe is best from the windshield back, with what looks like a completely different car tacked on the nose. Love the long sweeping line at the door handle, along with the real trunk making it look less stubby. I like the 1er coupe, too, but because it reminds me of the 2002 and earlier 3 series (E21 and E30). The new 3er reminds me more of my 6 series except for the vaguely Pontiac styled nose.
Quote from: LonghornTX on November 16, 2007, 12:09:51 AM
I would consider 200lbs a significant amount, wouldn't you (numbers lifted from BMW's website)?
I don't do lbs but in terms of kilograms I think there's only a 40 kg difference. To say the difference in size is significant, that's not much. The 1 is a heavy car for how big it is.
The 1er coupe is not that "small"... its 3 inches short then my RX8 but 5 inches wider and 3 inches taller
All the guys over at NASIOC will be pissed that the 135i is still way more than the STi, lol.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=12036.msg644345#msg644345 date=1195153861
It's got that bloated new car look, and that super long rear end.
:nutty:
I still don't know where you're comming from with this. It's got a long hood and a short trunk.
(http://images.leftlanenews.com/content/4-2007-bmw-3-series-coupe-335i-328i-e92.jpg)
For reference, here's a car you do like:
(http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/audi-a5-4-big.jpg)
Can't say the rear-end is all that shorter :huh: Also looks more bloated (part of that is the low resolution).
Quote from: LonghornTX on November 16, 2007, 12:15:01 AM
This is probably closer to 250lbs when the weight discrepancy that SJ noted is accounted for. BMW includes driver and fuel when quoting their weight, something Ford does not do IIRC.
I wish it was that close, it would give me more reason to go with the Mustang.
Per EPA CFR (Code of Federal Regulation) 40, "Curb Weight" is defined as:
the actual or the manufacturer's estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity, and the weight of optional equipment computed in accordance with ?86.082?24Presuming that Ford specifies their curb weight per that definition, then they do indeed include fuel.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 15, 2007, 01:39:08 PM
...what is the point of Mini?
Yes, what
is the point of the Mini. I still don't understand why so many people spend that kind of money on a Mini. :nutty:
<note>
Yes, I did test drive one.
</note>
Quote from: IrishGuy on November 16, 2007, 11:46:06 AM
Yes, what is the point of the Mini. I still don't understand why so many people spend that kind of money on a Mini. :nutty:
<note>
Yes, I did test drive one.
</note>
different strokes...ive driven one several times and if I had the cash would buy one in a heartbeat!
Quote from: J86 on November 16, 2007, 11:58:28 AM
different strokes...ive driven one several times and if I had the cash would buy one in a heartbeat!
I would spend $25K on a Mini Cooper S. but they want $35K in Canada.
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2007, 11:11:14 AM
Per EPA CFR (Code of Federal Regulation) 40, "Curb Weight" is defined as:
the actual or the manufacturer's estimated weight of the vehicle in operational status with all standard equipment, and weight of fuel at nominal tank capacity, and the weight of optional equipment computed in accordance with ?86.082–24
Presuming that Ford specifies their curb weight per that definition, then they do indeed include fuel.
and BMW uses "EU unladen weight" which includes a driver, fuel, and some luggage
Quote from: r0tor on November 16, 2007, 01:07:26 PM
and BMW uses "EU unladen weight" which includes a driver, fuel, and some luggage
I thought EU unladen was car, fluids, and 75 kg for a driver?
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on November 16, 2007, 07:47:30 AM
I don't do lbs but in terms of kilograms I think there's only a 40 kg difference. To say the difference in size is significant, that's not much. The 1 is a heavy car for how big it is.
200lbs=~90kg. I would say that is fairly significant considering that the lower price point that the 135i operates in essentially disallows the use of many of the weight saving programs used on the e92 (like plastic frond fenders and increased use of aluminum in the suspension).
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2007, 02:07:27 PM
I thought EU unladen was car, fluids, and 75 kg for a driver?
I believe the 75kg is meant to include both driver AND luggage.
Ford does not include the driver while BMW does, so at the very least there would be a 75kg (~165lbs) difference in listed weights between the two vehicles.
Oh, and something else. Does BMW list EU unladen on their American website? They specify EU unladen on their European sites, but make no such note on their American site. I also noticed that the weight listed for the 135i coupe on BMW's UK site (which explicitly states it is EU unladen) is higher than the weight listed for the car on their American website (which is labelled "unladen"), and the difference is not a mere 5-10 lbs.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 16, 2007, 12:12:32 PM
I would spend $25K on a Mini Cooper S. but they want $35K in Canada.
shitty.
i have no idea what they retail for in the states.
Quote from: J86 on November 16, 2007, 02:35:19 PM
shitty.
i have no idea what they retail for in the states.
They can breach $30K pretty easily in the US if you start adding options. I thought they could get nearly $40K with every option.
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2007, 02:39:55 PM
They can breach $30K pretty easily in the US if you start adding options. I thought they could get nearly $40K with every option.
hm. Still, I love 'em.
Quote from: J86 on November 16, 2007, 02:35:19 PM
shitty.
i have no idea what they retail for in the states.
You can get a Cooper S with sport and premium package for around $25,000.
Quote from: thewizard16 on November 16, 2007, 02:41:20 PM
You can get a Cooper S with sport and premium package for around $25,000.
Shit, sold!
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2007, 02:39:55 PM
They can breach $30K pretty easily in the US if you start adding options. I thought they could get nearly $40K with every option.
They can. I built one with every possible option (before dealer customizations) and it was $37k.
Quote from: thewizard16 on November 16, 2007, 02:44:43 PM
They can. I built one with every possible option (before dealer customizations) and it was $37k.
Yeah, I had something in the high to mid 30K range and then I started clicking off all of the dealer custom items like the JCW performance packages. I was over $40K in no time.
Haha I just brought my dream Mini up to 41,136. Wooooo-eeee!
Quote from: IrishGuy on November 16, 2007, 11:46:06 AM
Yes, what is the point of the Mini. I still don't understand why so many people spend that kind of money on a Mini. :nutty:
<note>
Yes, I did test drive one.
</note>
It's just so cool to look at and handles like nothing else!
Quote from: TheIntrepid on November 16, 2007, 03:52:01 PM
It's just so cool to look at and handles like nothing else!
Yes. It also rides like a buckboard (the new new MINI is better).
Quote from: MX793 on November 16, 2007, 02:18:45 PM
Oh, and something else. Does BMW list EU unladen on their American website? They specify EU unladen on their European sites, but make no such note on their American site. I also noticed that the weight listed for the 135i coupe on BMW's UK site (which explicitly states it is EU unladen) is higher than the weight listed for the car on their American website (which is labelled "unladen"), and the difference is not a mere 5-10 lbs.
I noticed this as well, but no one really knows. The weights for the 3 series on bmwusa.com appear to include driver, so it may be the same for the 1 series. Only a scale will truly tell.
I just priced a Cooper S at $65,185! Fantastic.
I'd rather buy an A3. Any word on diesel versions of this (or, the A3, for that matter)?
I bought my 2006 MINI Cooper S for $21,600 out the door. It was a hella bang for the buck, and unlike everything on the road, and with the rear seat delete had plenty of room to haul my dogs, that's why.
I don't like FWD, and I question the reliability. I want to talk myself into an S2000, but torque is king. I saw the 135 in person today, (and the new M3--it's gorgeous, and not part of this debate, as its just too much money). The 135 is better looking in person than on the web, and the question really remains is the price worth the performance? With another $15K minimum, I could build a hella MINI!
See, I'm so conflicted, I'm trying NOT to build a track car, I want a DD I can track, hence the 135i makes the list, as the MINI did. If it was "just" a track car, it'd be a Miata, but I can't stand that as a DD, (I need to haul two old, 70lb dogs).
AAAHHH! What to do? BTW, not sure what the demographic is for the 135, but I do have the cash and the inclination to buy it, and the looks don't put me off. It would be, albeit lessor so than the MINI, a redheaded stepchild at BMW events, and that doesn't bother me either--maybe their demographic is old farts who think they're young? ;-)
Why can't you go for a dedicated track car? You have an IS350 and a truck too. Just how many practical cars do you need?
350Z
Quote from: R-inge on November 16, 2007, 10:12:39 AM
All the guys over at NASIOC will be pissed that the 135i is still way more than the STi, lol.
Starting price on the STI is $34,995? Seems like similar prices.
Quote from: SJ_GTI on November 19, 2007, 09:52:02 AM
Starting price on the STI is $34,995? Seems like similar prices.
It's $49,995 here IIRC.
Minor hijaak: The wifey drives the "Toyota on steroids" and refuses to drive the truck. I have to travel to nearby towns a couple hours away for work about once a month and taking the truck is a pain, even compared to the MINI.
The M3 is outstanding but too much car and too much money for me, I'm old school and just can't see paying "that" much for a car...
I have been thinking a 350Z track edition might be a good option for track/DD use?
Hijack off
I saw, as some of you know, the new 135i at the BMW PC in Spartansburg, SC, USA on Sunday. It MUCH better looking in person. The front brakes are out of this world! That thing has to stop like it has a chute.
I think it'll sell like Camry's, F150s and Accords, (read lots), at any price once people get behind the wheel.
Quote from: MidnightDave on November 21, 2007, 09:24:50 AM
I saw, as some of you know, the new 135i at the BMW PC in Spartansburg, SC, USA on Sunday. It MUCH better looking in person. The front brakes are out of this world! That thing has to stop like it has a chute.
I saw it in rea life for the first time yesterday, and I do agree that it does look much better in person. I still can't justify paying the same price as a G37 for a 135, though.
Quote from: Vinsanity on November 21, 2007, 10:05:11 AM
I saw it in rea life for the first time yesterday, and I do agree that it does look much better in person. I still can't justify paying the same price as a G37 for a 135, though.
The average car buyer looking for a GT wouldn't, but one who places a premium on performance might. The BMW should be capable of eating a G37 alive on the track.
Quote from: Vinsanity on November 21, 2007, 10:05:11 AM
I saw it in rea life for the first time yesterday, and I do agree that it does look much better in person. I still can't justify paying the same price as a G37 for a 135, though.
The G37 doesn't really offer much more, other than some extra features and a lot of weight. The inside of that car is pretty small and the trunk is outrageous for how big the car is.
Quote from: LonghornTX on November 21, 2007, 01:34:24 PM
The G37 doesn't really offer much more, other than some extra features and a lot of weight. The inside of that car is pretty small and the trunk is outrageous for how big the car is.
Yea... if it's anything like the G35 coupe the trunk is useless; my friend put a dual 12" sub box in it... good bye trunk, mind you the box is only about 3 cubic feet
I'm still on the fence with the 1... gotta see it in person. But it's fast, reasonably priced and a BMW. Though really for the extra practicality would it really hurt that much to get the 3? That's the question.
It would be a rather pedestrian 3 for that kind of cash, you'd be giving up a lot of performance for that extra back seat and trunk space.
If practicality was my primary concern, I don't think I'd ever get a low-end BMW (or Merc or Lexus for that matter) when there are so many great mid-sized cars on the road with so many features for so much less (or equal) money, with or without rwd or awd. Bimmer Badge premium. Not that they aren't possibly better cars than those others, but it's beyond my point of diminishing returns.
Quote from: TurboDan on November 18, 2007, 03:35:10 PM
I'd rather buy an A3. Any word on diesel versions of this (or, the A3, for that matter)?
It's a high priced premium brand small car, and you want them to put a diesel in it and sell it in the US? They'd sell fewer cars than Oldsmobile.
Quote from: Raza on November 21, 2007, 04:13:31 PM
It's a high priced premium brand small car, and you want them to put a diesel in it and sell it in the US?
Yeah, exactly.
You do know that Oldsmobile sells 0 cars, right?
:orly:
Quote from: Raza on November 24, 2007, 07:41:55 PM
You do know that Oldsmobile sells 0 cars, right?
Well, if Audi sold the A3 with a diesel engine, they'd sell at least 1. Take that Oldsmobile!
Quote from: Raza on November 21, 2007, 04:13:31 PM
It's a high priced premium brand small car, and you want them to put a diesel in it and sell it in the US? They'd sell fewer cars than Oldsmobile.
i saw a 1er coupe diesel was tested in europe... 7.0 sec 0-60 time, same torque as the 135i, lighter then the 135i, twin turbo so great throttle response, and got the equivalent of 45mpg highway...
i think there would be a market for it
Quote from: r0tor on November 25, 2007, 12:11:57 PM
i saw a 1er coupe diesel was tested in europe... 7.0 sec 0-60 time, same torque as the 135i, lighter then the 135i, twin turbo so great throttle response, and got the equivalent of 45mpg highway...
i think there would be a market for it
I doubt it. People here don't like diesels in cars. Being quick and efficient is nothing new for diesels.
Most of N.A.'s recent experience with diesels is through VW. If everyone had time behind the wheel of a 1.8-2.0L TD Jetta or Passat they might be converted. However, a certain type of person likes VWs, everyone else keeps their distance. When Honda and other manufacturers start making good diesels for their cars people might try them.
There is the matter of diesel availability, many stations don't carry it and I think the perception is exaggerated even more amongst people who've never considered a diesel.
And then there's the smell. Never underestimate the smell.
Quote from: FordSVT on November 30, 2007, 08:33:41 AM
Most of N.A.'s recent experience with diesels is through VW. If everyone had time behind the wheel of a 1.8-2.0L TD Jetta or Passat they might be converted. However, a certain type of person likes VWs, everyone else keeps their distance. When Honda and other manufacturers start making good diesels for their cars people might try them.
There is the matter of diesel availability, many stations don't carry it and I think the perception is exaggerated even more amongst people who've never considered a diesel.
And then there's the smell. Never underestimate the smell.
From what I'm told, newer diesels don't really smell, and are quite quiet.
Back in 1999, my brother almost got an E300 diesel, but surprisingly it was my dad who convinced him to get the petrol E320.
I was talking more about the actual fuel. When you pump diesel you can smell it on you an hour later.
Quote from: FordSVT on November 30, 2007, 01:38:28 PM
I was talking more about the actual fuel. When you pump diesel you can smell it on you an hour later.
Oh. I can't say I've ever pumped diesel.
Quote from: Raza on November 30, 2007, 02:02:28 PM
Oh. I can't say I've ever pumped diesel.
As someone who worked around the stuff and ended up spilling it on himself on a semi-frequent basis, let me tell you that it's a smell that doesn't wash off easily. Even after scrubbing up with industrial strength hand cleaners like LAVA soap, you can still smell a hint of it on you.
Quote from: MX793 on November 30, 2007, 03:00:37 PM
As someone who worked around the stuff and ended up spilling it on himself on a semi-frequent basis, let me tell you that it's a smell that doesn't wash off easily. Even after scrubbing up with industrial strength hand cleaners like LAVA soap, you can still smell a hint of it on you.
I'm trying to remember if I ever have. We got rid of our 300SD before I got my permit, and although I drove it on a few occasions, but I can't remember pumping diesel into it as a kid. I do remember putting petrol into our S320 though.
Quote from: MX793 on November 30, 2007, 03:00:37 PM
As someone who worked around the stuff and ended up spilling it on himself on a semi-frequent basis, let me tell you that it's a smell that doesn't wash off easily. Even after scrubbing up with industrial strength hand cleaners like LAVA soap, you can still smell a hint of it on you.
Gasoline doesn't exactly wash right off, either.
Anyway, it wouldn't be hard to make diesel smell better. The oil companies can just buy out AXE Body Spray and put the stuff directly into the fuels. There really is no good excuse for all mainstream cars and trucks not switching to diesel, except for pure ignorance.
Quote from: NACar on December 03, 2007, 01:00:28 PM
Gasoline doesn't exactly wash right off, either.
Anyway, it wouldn't be hard to make diesel smell better. The oil companies can just buy out AXE Body Spray and put the stuff directly into the fuels. There really is no good excuse for all mainstream cars and trucks not switching to diesel, except for pure ignorance.
Gasoline comes off a hell of a lot easier than diesel. I ended up dribbling a little gas on my hands pretty frequently when I used to ride dirtbikes as a kid. Without even washing my hands, the smell would be mostly gone after a couple of hours. Meanwhile, when I was turning wrenches for a trucking company, I'd change a fuel filter and even after several hours and washing my hands multiple times after that, I could still smell diesel on me.
Gasoline evaporates faster, does it not?