The title is pretty much it, though I would add that I am wondering if it would be more useful to me to go for a Criminal Science degree with a community college to technical school, or if I would be well served going with an Associate of Arts and focusing on learning the Spanish language. It would seem that speaking Spanish is a huge asset in law enforcement, so I'm drawn in that direction.
Thanks for any advice.
Roy
I did not plan on a career in LE, I just sort of found it. I was pretty much set on playing pro-ball, which I may or may not have been good enough, but late in my college career, and graduation, I felt a calling for doing something meaningful. I joined the Corp, and after three years I moved over from active duty to the reserves. Detroit needed officers, and I just could not see myself sitting behind a desk everyday in some cubicle. So I applied, and was hired. Back then they ran their own academy, so that was that.
My advice to you is if you want to be a patrol officer, go the assoc. degree way and pursue a B.S. degree in something far away from police and criminal justice. Almost anything is better than spending good money on a job you will probably never make more than about $35-45,000. Unless you make it to one of those very few departments which pays well. A B.S. degree is hardly worth the paper its printed on, and will give you very little ability to leave LE for the lucrative civilian world if you should ever so choose.
Thanks!
So do you want to be a LEO, Roy?
I got into LE totally by accident, actually. Sophomore year of HS, my school gave out surveys on what professions each student was interested in. I was too busy socializing in homeroom when they gave them out and, when the bell rang to go to first period, I had to hurry up an complete the survey. It required you to choose several potential professions and I was one short, so I just marked "police officer" on a whim (and, considering the shy, skinny, uncoordinated kid I was in HS, law enforcement was probably the last profession anyone would have ssumed for me). Well, I forgot the survey until I got a letter in the mail for the Police Explorers program. It sounded interesting, I signed up, and knew by the end of my first ride along with the Dayton Police Department that I wanted to get into LE. My parents and friends were less than thrilled (and more than a little doubtful), but I stuck with it and have been in it for about 9 years now.
As for what would be preferred degrees to get into LE, I'd recommend something non-law enforcement related. Psychology and sociology are both good choices, as they are applicable to the job but aren't totally law enforcement specific. Foreign languages are always a good choice. Even something like computer science can be used in LE. In the end, a college degree in LE is just a piece of paper that gives you points on a civil service test and (sometimes) a raise after you get the job. The degree itself rarely matters to the real job of LE...you learn that hands-on and in the trenches, not from a book. The Associates Degree vs. Bachelor's Degree question really depends on what area of LE you want to get into. Federal and some municipal departments have degree requirements...some associates and some bachelors. Other departments have no requirement but give special preference for those with degrees.
Cool, thanks Bing_oh. I know FoCo police likes to see 60 accredited hours. I have 71 unaccredited hours, and 11 credited. I think what I might need to do is find out if they would waive that standard (assuming they even wanted to hire me) or if I could get accredited if I took a certain class at WyoTech which would give me an AA in business management. I know I could do that for sure, I could just tell my boss I need to get out of work in time to drive up to Laramie for the night classes. It's just a question of whether it's worth the time.
I'm still leaning toward a foreign language, but unless I do some sort of online university I don't think I can do both...already "working" ridiculous hours as it is.
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 15, 2007, 10:03:16 PM
So do you want to be a LEO, Roy?
Considering it. I'm a decent mechanic, but flat rate kills me, especially with the electrical and driveability work that is my mainstay. I spend 9-10 hours a day here and get paid much less than that on most days.
:rage:
So, other options on my list where Military, Law Enforcement, work for self building replicars, drive for UPS, or move into another facet of my industry as either a service advisor or parts guy.
Military is a slim option since I'm now married, and the National Guard is more of a weekend warrior thing that I'm not really interested in.
Law Enforcement has always been appealing to me, I had however always considered my colorblindness to be prohibitive of any street work...turns out many departments don't seem to care from what I've heard from discussing it with local folks.
Replicar thing would be neat, but the zoning around here keeps me from doing it from my garage, FWIU.
UPS would be fun, since I love driving and spending hours on end by myself with the radio to keep me company, so it's near the top of the list.
I don't like dealing with customers, so service advisor is low on the list, and right now with the slump in the industry overall, there isn't much money to be made selling parts either. Overall I chose the wrong time to get into the auto business...
As for salary, I would be pretty happy on $35-$40k a year, my wife and I make that combined right now, so if I were doing that on my own we'd be pretty comfortable.
Huh, just got off the phone with WyoTech, and they are in fact accredited with ACCSCT. I thought they weren't since these credits aren't generally transfereable to a university (which pisses me off, but oh well), which means that if the FoCo police dig that accreditation certificate I should be good to go!
Here's the employment info, with salary range of $48,982 to $66,663 FoCo Police employment. (http://www.ci.fort-collins.co.us/police/employment.php)
Sounds good, eh?
After HS I went to college for mechanical drafting and quickly became bored. Went in the USAF Security Police for four years. Worked for the NH Dept of Corrections for two years before I got hired at the dept I work for now. So that's 1988 to current. My degrees are all CJ related since that's what is required for our education incentive though that's been expanded to sociology, etc. My master's is good for 25% percent bump over base. We make decent money up here but the cost of living is high too. Would I do it again? I'm not so sure. :huh:
I can usually make over 80K a year right now but my wife works too. Sounds like a lot but when homes are 500K+ it's not as much as it sounds.
You should move to Canada and become and RCMP officer. My best friend is an RCMP officer and he makes $75,000 in his 4th year on the force.
Roy, good luck with it. You're completely overqualified for what you do with a degree from WyoTech. You went to the best automotive school in the nation, and if you can't use it to its utmost potential, it's always good to pick up other skills to complement it. Good luck.
You'll find that the need for LEO's out west is dire. They're very short staffed out there and sorely lacking in qualified candidates. There's even a growing trend out west to pay "signing bonuses" to new hires and pay to get the officer moved if they're not local. Pay tends to be pretty good out there, though the cost of living is higher than the midwest and south, so you'll have to factor that in.
Quote from: the Teuton on November 16, 2007, 09:55:57 PM
Roy, good luck with it. You're completely overqualified for what you do with a degree from WyoTech. You went to the best automotive school in the nation, and if you can't use it to its utmost potential, it's always good to pick up other skills to complement it. Good luck.
We'll see what happens. I get tired of being told to turn more hours when they only train me for and dispatch electrical and driveability...which while challenging isn't very rewarding, except in a purely intellectual sense. We are overstaffed bigtime, and they don't seem to understand what they're doing to their techs, burning them out with this crap. Trouble is, everyone else does the same thing!
I think I will at least apply...sadly, I might lose my current schedule which is working out well for me right now, allowing me to be a guitarist in two local churches, but whatever. I need a solid lifetime career, period.
Quote from: bing_oh on November 16, 2007, 10:34:59 PM
You'll find that the need for LEO's out west is dire. They're very short staffed out there and sorely lacking in qualified candidates. There's even a growing trend out west to pay "signing bonuses" to new hires and pay to get the officer moved if they're not local. Pay tends to be pretty good out there, though the cost of living is higher than the midwest and south, so you'll have to factor that in.
Greeley just announced that for the first time in years they are at their target staffing levels, but it won't stay that way if any more of them get shot...
Don't go the CJ degree route; your degree should be in something completely non-LE related so you have a degree to fall back on if your LE goal falls through, or for when you eventually retire. The only LE degree you should go for would be a Masters if you became admin-level.
The National Guard gig hasn't been a weekend warrior gig since 9-11; ask any Guard guy who's been deployed since then.
My career choices have all been accidental; I never planned on any of them, they were all opportunities that came up and I was interested enough to pursue them.
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
Quote from: Psilos on November 17, 2007, 04:31:07 PM
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
Actually, why wait until you are in your 30s to start planning for retirement? The sooner you start working towards that goal, the better off you'll be DURING retirement.
Quote from: Psilos on November 17, 2007, 04:31:07 PM
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
23 going on 40... I want stability, a job that's rewarding by itself, and a decent retirement someday.
You can always put some money in an IRA. :lol:
Quote from: R-inge on November 16, 2007, 08:42:23 AM
Considering it. I'm a decent mechanic, but flat rate kills me, especially with the electrical and driveability work that is my mainstay. I spend 9-10 hours a day here and get paid much less than that on most days.
:rage:
So, other options on my list where Military, Law Enforcement, work for self building replicars, drive for UPS, or move into another facet of my industry as either a service advisor or parts guy.
Military is a slim option since I'm now married, and the National Guard is more of a weekend warrior thing that I'm not really interested in.
Law Enforcement has always been appealing to me, I had however always considered my colorblindness to be prohibitive of any street work...turns out many departments don't seem to care from what I've heard from discussing it with local folks.
Replicar thing would be neat, but the zoning around here keeps me from doing it from my garage, FWIU.
UPS would be fun, since I love driving and spending hours on end by myself with the radio to keep me company, so it's near the top of the list.
I don't like dealing with customers, so service advisor is low on the list, and right now with the slump in the industry overall, there isn't much money to be made selling parts either. Overall I chose the wrong time to get into the auto business...
As for salary, I would be pretty happy on $35-$40k a year, my wife and I make that combined right now, so if I were doing that on my own we'd be pretty comfortable.
Roy, if you don't like dealing with customers, what makes you think you'll enjoy being an LEO? I don't like dealing with irrational people, either, which is why LEO isn't even a consideration for myself.
With your training from Wyotec, are you sure you can't get into a better job in the automotive field? Don't any dealerships offer commission-based pay for their mechanics? I don't quite understand why you don't think what you're doing now is a good career. Is it just your job that you're burned out on, or automotive work altogether?
Quote from: R-inge on November 17, 2007, 10:10:45 PM
23 going on 40... I want stability, a job that's rewarding by itself, and a decent retirement someday.
Not to mention job security.
Which brings me to my point. Have you thought about becoming a Teacher? They meet every single criteria you have come up with so far. Sure you have to deal with irritable kids all day, but alternatively you don't have to deal with people who might shoot at you. Maybe you should give that a thought?
Quote from: NACar on November 17, 2007, 10:19:58 PM
Roy, if you don't like dealing with customers, what makes you think you'll enjoy being an LEO? I don't like dealing with irrational people, either, which is why LEO isn't even a consideration for myself.
With your training from Wyotec, are you sure you can't get into a better job in the automotive field? Don't any dealerships offer commission-based pay for their mechanics? I don't quite understand why you don't think what you're doing now is a good career. Is it just your job that you're burned out on, or automotive work altogether?
Nick makes a good point. Think about whether your problem is with the work you do, or the circumstances of your particular job.
Even when you're unhappy, you have to be careful about not going from the frying pan into the fire.
Quote from: Minpin on November 17, 2007, 10:59:48 PM
Not to mention job security.
Which brings me to my point. Have you thought about becoming a Teacher? They meet every single criteria you have come up with so far. Sure you have to deal with irritable kids all day, but alternatively you don't have to deal with people who might shoot at you. Maybe you should give that a thought?
That depends on what type of school he's teaching in.....
Roy would need a significant amount of further education to become a teacher. I'm not sure how he's positioned for that at this point.
Quote from: Psilos on November 17, 2007, 04:31:07 PM
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
Yea, why should he start a career early in a line of work where you can retire at 48 if you've to 25 years on the job? Idiotic! :rolleyes:
It's not like yer twenties isn't the time to party and explore the world or anything.
Did I call him an idiot? Did I even imply that I thought that? Nope (because that's just not true), I've just seen a lot of young people become too eager for middle age to arrive and realize they weren't done being young yet. Jeesh, lay off it.
Actually, Psilos, I just considered your response indicitive of the modern generation in America. Recent studies have shown that many younger Americans are waiting longer and longer to really enter the workforce and aren't saving anything for their future when they do. It says something when an entire generation of people are still living in their parents' basements in their late 20's and early 30's becasue they aren't done "partying and exploring the world."
I think both bing_oh and Psilos have a point. It's about finding the right balance.
And I strongly believe that our priorties with work/life balance are out of whack, as a society. The boomer generation has idealized work (and this is not a left-right phenomenon; what is so bad about it is that it is true across the political spectrum) for its own sake. The generation that criticized its parents' materialism has become 10x worse than its parents ever were. And all this materialism has been financed by increasing working hours, in effect. We work harder and harder to have larger and larger homes that we are forced to leave empty most of the time so we can pay for them. We go deeply into debt to pay for all sorts of material possessions that tether us to them, both physically and financially. Our materialism has become almost a form of bondage.
So it's not surprising that younger generations might start to recoil at all of this, and look for a better way. So I definitely understand where Psilos is coming from. There are moments in life that only come once, and you have to make the most of them when they do.
On the other hand, bing_oh is right that some younger people have excessively postponed adulthood. Our society in general has pushed adulthood later and later. I think this is a result of a few things. As our society has become wealthier, one side effect has been to make it harder for those who have not achieved a certain level of affluence yet to live decently. In certain parts of the country, it's very tough on young people to get off the ground because housing costs are so high relative to the incomes that they can earn. Even for people with good income prospects, it can take them some time to reach the point where they can really get off the ground.
In addition, many of the x-ers and y-ers with boomer parents have become spoiled by their parents' materialism. The generation gap has somewhat receded, and these younger people don't have the same rebellious attitude that their parents had. In turn, there parents have overindulged their kids, and don't seem that anxious for their kids to grow up. There has been a subtle shift in the perception of a parents' job, from the attitude that you must prepare your child to survive on his own, to the attitude that it's the parents' job to provide his child the best opportunities in life, and keep his child's life from being too difficult.
The result is that, for economic and other reasons, many younger people are living at home with parents long into adulthood, and not assuming adult responsibilities.
So in their way, both Psilos and bing_oh are right, and the ideal situation is somewhere in between the two extremes.
Quote from: Psilos on November 17, 2007, 04:31:07 PM
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
Being that I am probably the only retired member of the board, I think I will throw in my .01 1/4 cents.
Starting early planning is the only way to go in these modern times. I started planning the minute I graduated college, and I retired at 40. When I say I retired, I mean full retirement. I only collect 65% of my last best five years, combined with what I and my departments had payed into my retirement fund. When I took a new job with a township PD, I was given a pension program and rolled my DPD into the new plan through a Roth IRA contribution.
My new plan then allowed me to "buy back" four years of my military career and leave with 20 on the books, including my DPD service.
The entire time I worked at DPD and the other department I worked part time for another department in the area a couple times a week. I paid all of that in, plus ALL of my OT and holiday pay.
When I retired, I was allowed by my new department to roll 75% of all my accrued sick time, personal time, and "comp" time into my retirement. Which I hardly ever used, and we accrued them at a rate of 2 days sick and 2.5 day vacation and 2 days personal time, per every month of work. I was there for five years, and only took one week a year of personal time for vacation.
When I turn 45 my percentage jumps to 70%, and when I turn 55 it jumps to 75%. When I turn 60 it jumps to 85% of my best last five years, at Sgts. pay where it will remain until I die. My wife receives some type of lump sum payment at the end, which I honeslty do not know what that is right now.
Because I am a vet, I get not only my lifetime insurance through work, I also receive my lifetime veterans benefits. My wife will continue to receive health benefits for the rest of her life as well.
I also bought stock when I first got married with the money we got at our wedding. We put $8,000 into Apple at about $22.00 per share. We just sold it recently at about $190 per share. We have other stocks and investments, but I just chose to share that one stock as what anyone can do.
Planning early is your duty IF you want to be able to retire before your 65th birthday. My dad once told me, "Invest often, invest alot."
The stocks are not for everyone, there is deep inherent risk in them. Land is good, so is gold. There will be very little risk in those. Usually, municiple bonds are secure, and therefore safe. They do not provide for high yeilds often, but they do give guaranteed yeilds.
Sorry for the long post, I just can not possibly disagree anymore with your assessment than I do right now. It shows a lack of maturity and thought, and caring about your financial future. You are only allowed so many days of productive work in a given lifetime, and you must make the most of them that you can.
I recently was reading an article that said in short; For every dollar that you spend today, you are wasting $10,000 of properly planned and grown dollars in 10 years. That means, if you buy a leather jacket that you really do not need for $300 bucks, you have just thrown a possible $300,000 out the window in ten years.
Failing to plan is simply ensuring a working class future.
Ask Randy what good planning can do for a man.
Ten years ago he invested in a Roth IRA with $5,000, he was 27. My financial advisor says that when Randy turns 77 that one investment will be worth $1,000,000 dollars. Had he invested that money when he was 19 he would be albe to collect it at 69 years old.
How old am I now?
42
Hounddog, you made out well on Apple!
Quote from: bing_oh on November 18, 2007, 02:19:26 AM
Actually, Psilos, I just considered your response indicitive of the modern generation in America. Recent studies have shown that many younger Americans are waiting longer and longer to really enter the workforce and aren't saving anything for their future when they do. It says something when an entire generation of people are still living in their parents' basements in their late 20's and early 30's becasue they aren't done "partying and exploring the world."
Give me a break. I'm not some douchey kid who'll be living at home when I'm 30. I'm all for getting married and buying a house at any age from 20 to whenever. But, assuming wifey/hubby has similar goals to you, those things don't impede youth. In fact, a real job that pays well doesn't impede youth. Looking toward and planning for the future are all good ideas. I intend to invest $5-10,000 in an IRA before I'm 30, and I intend to have some idea of what I want to do before I graduate graduate school (26 or 27).
I get concerned when people start looking for a career and having kids before they're 25. Of course, exceptions abound and to each their own.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 04:45:25 PM
Being that I am probably the only retired member of the board, I think I will throw in my .01 1/4 cents.
Starting early planning is the only way to go in these modern times. I started planning the minute I graduated college, and I retired at 40. When I say I retired, I mean full retirement.
[yawn]
Planning early is your duty IF you want to be able to retire before your 65th birthday. My dad once told me, "Invest often, invest alot."
[etcetera]
Sorry for the long post, I just can not possibly disagree anymore with your assessment than I do right now. It shows a lack of maturity and thought, and caring about your financial future. You are only allowed so many days of productive work in a given lifetime, and you must make the most of them that you can.
[clip]
Failing to plan is simply ensuring a working class future.
Ask Randy what good planning can do for a man.
Ten years ago he invested in a Roth IRA with $5,000, he was 27. My financial advisor says that when Randy turns 77 that one investment will be worth $1,000,000 dollars. Had he invested that money when he was 19 he would be albe to collect it at 69 years old.
How old am I now?
42
First highlighted point:
I dunno about you, but I'd rather not live my life for the purpose of retiring. It's way more important to be able to concentrate on being happy now than it is to be unhappy for 20 years and retire when you're 40. That does not mean that you shouldn't plan for the future.
Second highlighted point:
Lack of maturity and thought? Lack of caring about my financial future? Oh, jog off. What I've said, even before your post, does no such thing as imply I'm some immature kid who wants to live with Mommy and Daddy when I'm 30 and work in a convenience store until I'm 80. That's your own bias there, chief. Also, making the most of life does not mean making the most of your "days of productive work" for everyone.
So, as a retired 42 year old, what do you do with all that free time?
Quote from: Psilos on November 18, 2007, 07:33:05 PM
First highlighted point:
I dunno about you, but I'd rather not live my life for the purpose of retiring. It's way more important to be able to concentrate on being happy now than it is to be unhappy for 20 years and retire when you're 40. That does not mean that you shouldn't plan for the future.
Retirement should ALWAYS be on your mind during your entire working career. Thats not to say that you can't have fun in the meantime, but you have to live within your means, and that includes savinga large per centage of your income for the bad days. Americans as a whole do not save anywhere near the amount they should. Your 20s are the perfect time to be starting good saving habits that should stick with you your entire working life. Your income will be lower than it will be later down the road, but you generally also have lower expenses.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 04:45:25 PM
Being that I am probably the only retired member of the board, I think I will throw in my .01 1/4 cents.
Starting early planning is the only way to go in these modern times. I started planning the minute I graduated college, and I retired at 40. When I say I retired, I mean full retirement. I only collect 65% of my last best five years, combined with what I and my departments had payed into my retirement fund. When I took a new job with a township PD, I was given a pension program and rolled my DPD into the new plan through a Roth IRA contribution.
My new plan then allowed me to "buy back" four years of my military career and leave with 20 on the books, including my DPD service.
The entire time I worked at DPD and the other department I worked part time for another department in the area a couple times a week. I paid all of that in, plus ALL of my OT and holiday pay.
When I retired, I was allowed by my new department to roll 75% of all my accrued sick time, personal time, and "comp" time into my retirement. Which I hardly ever used, and we accrued them at a rate of 2 days sick and 2.5 day vacation and 2 days personal time, per every month of work. I was there for five years, and only took one week a year of personal time for vacation.
When I turn 45 my percentage jumps to 70%, and when I turn 55 it jumps to 75%. When I turn 60 it jumps to 85% of my best last five years, at Sgts. pay where it will remain until I die. My wife receives some type of lump sum payment at the end, which I honeslty do not know what that is right now.
Because I am a vet, I get not only my lifetime insurance through work, I also receive my lifetime veterans benefits. My wife will continue to receive health benefits for the rest of her life as well.
I also bought stock when I first got married with the money we got at our wedding. We put $8,000 into Apple at about $22.00 per share. We just sold it recently at about $190 per share. We have other stocks and investments, but I just chose to share that one stock as what anyone can do.
Planning early is your duty IF you want to be able to retire before your 65th birthday. My dad once told me, "Invest often, invest alot."
The stocks are not for everyone, there is deep inherent risk in them. Land is good, so is gold. There will be very little risk in those. Usually, municiple bonds are secure, and therefore safe. They do not provide for high yeilds often, but they do give guaranteed yeilds.
Sorry for the long post, I just can not possibly disagree anymore with your assessment than I do right now. It shows a lack of maturity and thought, and caring about your financial future. You are only allowed so many days of productive work in a given lifetime, and you must make the most of them that you can.
I recently was reading an article that said in short; For every dollar that you spend today, you are wasting $10,000 of properly planned and grown dollars in 10 years. That means, if you buy a leather jacket that you really do not need for $300 bucks, you have just thrown a possible $300,000 out the window in ten years.
Failing to plan is simply ensuring a working class future.
Ask Randy what good planning can do for a man.
Ten years ago he invested in a Roth IRA with $5,000, he was 27. My financial advisor says that when Randy turns 77 that one investment will be worth $1,000,000 dollars. Had he invested that money when he was 19 he would be albe to collect it at 69 years old.
How old am I now?
42
Tony, you make some good points overall.
But the concept of retiring at 40 is not a feasible one for most people, no matter how well they plan. Nor is it necessarily desirable.
Work/life balance is very important. While it's bad to not plan for the future, it's also bad to make yourself miserable in the present in order to provide for a future that may not be there. It's important to balance the two. If you're healthy and happy with what you're doing, and you have a good balance in your life, there's not such a need or desire to retire so young.
One thing I should point out -- the pensions that you're talking about are extraordinarily generous, and far beyond what is available to the average person. Other than a small pension from my previous job (it will only amount to about $800 per month), I don't have a pension at all; I have to fully provide for my own retirement.
Quote from: the nameless one on November 18, 2007, 07:53:50 PM
Retirement should ALWAYS be on your mind during your entire working career. Thats not to say that you can't have fun in the meantime, but you have to live within your means, and that includes savinga large per centage of your income for the bad days. Americans as a whole do not save anywhere near the amount they should. Your 20s are the perfect time to be starting good saving habits that should stick with you your entire working life. Your income will be lower than it will be later down the road, but you generally also have lower expenses.
Very true. It's never too early to start saving. Time is something you can't get back. It's not good to wait until your 40s or 50s to start saving for retirement.
Quote from: Psilos on November 18, 2007, 07:33:05 PM
First highlighted point:
I dunno about you, but I'd rather not live my life for the purpose of retiring. It's way more important to be able to concentrate on being happy now than it is to be unhappy for 20 years and retire when you're 40. That does not mean that you shouldn't plan for the future.
Second highlighted point:
Lack of maturity and thought? Lack of caring about my financial future? Oh, jog off. What I've said, even before your post, does no such thing as imply I'm some immature kid who wants to live with Mommy and Daddy when I'm 30 and work in a convenience store until I'm 80. That's your own bias there, chief. Also, making the most of life does not mean making the most of your "days of productive work" for everyone.
So, as a retired 42 year old, what do you do with all that free time?
Fine, I wish you the best of luck with your financial future. My guess is that 'R' will be able to retire and enjoy almost all of his 40s through late life without the need to wake up at 5:30 in the morning and head off to work at 63 years old, but I doubt with that attitude you will be able to do the same. Planning for the future, and working for the future are two entirely different things.
Jog Off? Is that a shot at my health condition? What I am doing at 42 is struggling through severe health issues.
I am going to almost every single one of my kids activities, moving to a home on the most sought after lake in Michigan, not having to wonder if we will be able to pay bills, buying cars whenever we feel like it, living well, not worrying about money, and generally trying to enjoy my life even though there are other issues. Why? Because I did not merely plan, I acted and made the most out of my working days.
Something 'R' sounds like he has a handle on.
Had I not started caring for my financial future when I was 22-24, my family would now be in dire straits financially with only my wife working to support us. THAT is why you plan, and act, for the future and older age when you are young.
However, you assume I hated my life, my job, and everything about being financially responsible while I was young.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 18, 2007, 08:06:36 PM
Tony, you make some good points overall.
But the concept of retiring at 40 is not a feasible one for most people, no matter how well they plan. Nor is it necessarily desirable.
Work/life balance is very important. While it's bad to not plan for the future, it's also bad to make yourself miserable in the present in order to provide for a future that may not be there. It's important to balance the two. If you're healthy and happy with what you're doing, and you have a good balance in your life, there's not such a need or desire to retire so young.
One thing I should point out -- the pensions that you're talking about are extraordinarily generous, and far beyond what is available to the average person. Other than a small pension from my previous job (it will only amount to about $800 per month), I don't have a pension at all; I have to fully provide for my own retirement.
That was the basis of my post; I planned, I acted, I won. I looked for the best financial options for my family, and when I found them I took absolute advantage of them. It required I work long long hours, on many many shifts. But, I was able to make it work for our future. I am no one special when it comes to this, all I did was work toward an end while staying focused. I am no smarter than the average guy, I just worked harder.
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 07:00:13 PM
Hounddog, you made out well on Apple!
The one good advice my then financial advisor gave me. His other advice? GM and Ford. Fortunately, I did not take that advice!
Quote from: the nameless one on November 18, 2007, 07:53:50 PM
Retirement should ALWAYS be on your mind during your entire working career. Thats not to say that you can't have fun in the meantime, but you have to live within your means, and that includes savinga large per centage of your income for the bad days. Americans as a whole do not save anywhere near the amount they should. Your 20s are the perfect time to be starting good saving habits that should stick with you your entire working life. Your income will be lower than it will be later down the road, but you generally also have lower expenses.
"Always" is a big word to use, but, yeah, we agree.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 08:10:51 PM
Fine, I wish you the best of luck with your financial future. My guess is that 'R' will be able to retire and enjoy almost all of his 40s through late life without the need to wake up at 5:30 in the morning and head off to work at 63 years old, but I doubt with that attitude you will be able to do the same. Planning for the future, and working for the future are two entirely different things.
Jog Off? Is that a shot at my health condition? What I am doing at 42 is struggling through severe health issues.
I am going to almost every single one of my kids activities, moving to a home on the most sought after lake in Michigan, not having to wonder if we will be able to pay bills, buying cars whenever we feel like it, living well, not worrying about money, and generally trying to enjoy my life even though there are other issues. Why? Because I did not merely plan, I acted and made the most out of my working days.
Something 'R' sounds like he has a handle on.
Had I not started caring for my financial future when I was 22-24, my family would now be in dire straits financially with only my wife working to support us. THAT is why you plan, and act, for the future and older age when you are young.
However, you assume I hated my life, my job, and everything about being financially responsible while I was young.
"Jog off" is a pseudo-British term, that, as far as I can tell, is a nicer version of "fuck off".
The key is to pick a career path that makes you happy in and of itself, so that it's not the world's worst thing to get up at whatever time you need to and go to work. After all, I'll need to be doing
something when I'm 63, and any children I have along the way will be more or less grown up.
Quote from: Psilos on November 18, 2007, 09:13:15 PM
"Jog off" is a pseudo-British term, that, as far as I can tell, is a nicer version of "fuck off".
The key is to pick a career path that makes you happy in and of itself, so that it's not the world's worst thing to get up at whatever time you need to and go to work. After all, I'll need to be doing something when I'm 63, and any children I have along the way will be more or less grown up.
Actually, I thought you meant to write Jag Off so I was being a smartass.
At 63, I will, hopefully, still be around mowing grass, playing with grand kids, watching Spartan Football win National Championship after National Championship, fishing, boating in the sunset, drinking mucho cervesa, and still kissing Katharine in the morning. In short, I will still be retired with HOBBIES. Not work.
But I can not argue the happy part, except for one thing; it is called WORK. NOT Fun. The sole purpose of going to work is to make the most money for the present and future that you possibly can in the alloted time period you have to be viable in the workforce. In some cases, like mine, that is only about 20 years. I retired, and just a few short months later got sick. Others have far less time, others far more. But you damn well better be prepared financially for you future.
Psilos,
Sorry if I came off that I was calling you immature, ignorant, childish, or anything like that. I was, but I should not have been. You are a pretty mature poster, and I am sorry for that comment.
Just do not think that discouraging a young guy from preparing for his future financially is good business.
But the personal stuff I said was uncalled for.
Dude, pay someone else to mow the grass and go boat more!!
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 09:59:44 PM
Dude, pay someone else to mow the grass and go boat more!!
Mowing the grass is great therapy. I get to get a little excercize, drink a beer on my zero-turn, and not have anyone asking me, "Did you take the garbage out?" "Did you get the mail?" "Did you schedule the dog for her shots?" "Did you call the realtor?" "Did you remember to make you next doctor appointment?" and all that other crap. Its just me, the mower, my beers, and my earmuffs.
And I am too cheap to pay someone when I have a cool zero-turn that I do NOT want them touching.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:03:45 PM
Mowing the grass is great therapy. I get to get a little excercize, drink a beer on my zero-turn, and not have anyone asking me, "Did you take the garbage out?" "Did you get the mail?" "Did you schedule the dog for her shots?" "Did you call the realtor?" "Did you remember to make you next doctor appointment?" and all that other crap. Its just me, the mower, my beers, and my earmuffs.
"Did you mow the lawn yet?" :lol:
That's one of those household chores I never particularly enjoyed...I didn't mind it in the fall when things were cooler, but summer was brutal.
"And I am too cheap to pay someone when I have a cool zero-turn that I do NOT want them touching."
The real reason!
Is taht one of those mowers that spins in its own radius? Rider I assume?
Part of the reason I hated mowing the lawn is we've got an oldschool push mower...we only have a 1/2 acre so its tough to justify a full blown tractor...
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 09:59:44 PM
Dude, pay someone else to mow the grass and go boat more!!
You know, I just realized something. In Michigan, where I live, my driver license is under medical revocation until review. BUT, I can legally drive my boat on the open water.
AND DRINK A BEER WHILE I DRIVE IT.
WTF?
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:03:45 PM
Mowing the grass is great therapy. I get to get a little excercize, drink a beer on my zero-turn, and not have anyone asking me, "Did you take the garbage out?" "Did you get the mail?" "Did you schedule the dog for her shots?" "Did you call the realtor?" "Did you remember to make you next doctor appointment?" and all that other crap. Its just me, the mower, my beers, and my earmuffs.
And I am too cheap to pay someone when I have a cool zero-turn that I do NOT want them touching.
Our guys just show up once a week and mow it. They are in and out with an hour or so. Around here everyone gets their grass cut by mexicans and when I say everyone I really do mean everyone.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:06:29 PM
You know, I just realized something. In Michigan, where I live, my driver license is under medical revocation until review. BUT, I can legally drive my boat on the open water.
AND DRINK A BEER WHILE I DRIVE IT.
WTF?
If your state is like mine (and most), you are still subject to .08....although odds of taht happening are slim.
The water is not the roadway...
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:06:29 PM
You know, I just realized something. In Michigan, where I live, my driver license is under medical revocation until review. BUT, I can legally drive my boat on the open water.
AND DRINK A BEER WHILE I DRIVE IT.
WTF?
You can get a DUI on a boat just as easily as in a car.
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 10:06:18 PM
"And I am too cheap to pay someone when I have a cool zero-turn that I do NOT want them touching."
The real reason!
Is taht one of those mowers that spins in its own radius? Rider I assume?
Part of the reason I hated mowing the lawn is we've got an oldschool push mower...we only have a 1/2 acre so its tough to justify a full blown tractor...
Yes, that one. I have always wanted one, and was able to FINALLY talk Kat into one after my last stroke. I just got it a couple weeks ago. That thing is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!!!! Better than going to Cedar Pointe! I always have a good time when I am on it! Driving it after a few beers makes it even better fun. I have been mowing twice a week since I got it!
OK, 1/2 an acre is enough to invest in a nice push mower. I REALLY like my LawnBoy. The handle pushes in when you start walking and it speeds up and slows down with you, cutting your mowing time and workout in half.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:11:51 PM
Yes, that one. I have always wanted one, and was able to FINALLY talk Kat into one after my last stroke. I just got it a couple weeks ago. That thing is more fun than a barrel of monkeys!!!!! Better than going to Cedar Pointe! I always have a good time when I am on it! Driving it after a few beers makes it even better fun. I have been mowing twice a week since I got it!
OK, 1/2 an acre is enough to invest in a nice push mower. I REALLY like my LawnBoy. The handle pushes in when you start walking and it speeds up and slows down with you, cutting your mowing time and workout in half.
Gotta love toys!
Since I took off for school, Mom assumed mowing duties, and she actually doesn't hand them back over when I make it back home. I think she likes the exercise, and it lets the dog hang around outside.
Quote from: Minpin on November 18, 2007, 10:07:59 PM
You can get a DUI on a boat just as easily as in a car.
True, BUT, here we can have open beer and be drinking while operating. And for ME to get to .08 is about six beers in a little over an hour. I know, we have measured it out using a departmentally issued preliminary breath test machine (PBT) at the lake!
Just do not ask how it got to the lake 200+ miles away from Detroit!
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 10:13:52 PM
Gotta love toys!
Since I took off for school, Mom assumed mowing duties, and she actually doesn't hand them back over when I make it back home. I think she likes the exercise, and it lets the dog hang around outside.
I have to assume you are a young guy? I hated it as well when I was young, it was a chore. Now, its an escape and a chance to do the two most important things in a mans life; Drink and play with his Toys.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:15:52 PM
I have to assume you are a young guy? I hated it as well when I was young, it was a chore. Now, its an escape and a chance to do the two most important things in a mans life; Drink and play with his Toys.
Yup, third year in college.
Must say, Drink and Play with Toys are already pretty high priorities on the list!
Quote from: J86 on November 18, 2007, 10:17:07 PM
Yup, third year in college.
Must say, Drink and Play with Toys are already pretty high priorities on the list!
You are well on your way to enlightenment, Grasshopper.
Quote from: Minpin on November 18, 2007, 10:07:26 PM
Our guys just show up once a week and mow it. They are in and out with an hour or so. Around here everyone gets their grass cut by mexicans and when I say everyone I really do mean everyone.
Oh, Good Lord, do NOT let my wife know it only takes an hour to mow the grass. Right now, it "takes" me about three hours to mow an acre and a half.
Quote from: Psilos on November 18, 2007, 07:22:36 PM
Give me a break. I'm not some douchey kid who'll be living at home when I'm 30. I'm all for getting married and buying a house at any age from 20 to whenever. But, assuming wifey/hubby has similar goals to you, those things don't impede youth. In fact, a real job that pays well doesn't impede youth. Looking toward and planning for the future are all good ideas. I intend to invest $5-10,000 in an IRA before I'm 30, and I intend to have some idea of what I want to do before I graduate graduate school (26 or 27).
I get concerned when people start looking for a career and having kids before they're 25. Of course, exceptions abound and to each their own.
Boy, I sure hope you have some idea of a career path by the time you graduate from Graduate School. I'd think you might want to consider that a little earlier, even. Most people prefer to choose majors in college that have some bearing on the career field they want to enter...
Quote from: bing_oh on November 18, 2007, 11:44:58 PM
Boy, I sure hope you have some idea of a career path by the time you graduate from Graduate School. I'd think you might want to consider that a little earlier, even. Most people prefer to choose majors in college that have some bearing on the career field they want to enter...
OHHHHHHHHHAnd the croud goes wild as the champion levels his oppenent with a right cross, knocking him to the ground!
THIS...ONE...IS...OVER!
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 09:56:35 PM
Actually, I thought you meant to write Jag Off so I was being a smartass.
At 63, I will, hopefully, still be around mowing grass, playing with grand kids, watching Spartan Football win National Championship after National Championship, fishing, boating in the sunset, drinking mucho cervesa, and still kissing Katharine in the morning. In short, I will still be retired with HOBBIES. Not work.
But I can not argue the happy part, except for one thing; it is called WORK. NOT Fun. The sole purpose of going to work is to make the most money for the present and future that you possibly can in the alloted time period you have to be viable in the workforce. In some cases, like mine, that is only about 20 years. I retired, and just a few short months later got sick. Others have far less time, others far more. But you damn well better be prepared financially for you future.
Psilos,
Sorry if I came off that I was calling you immature, ignorant, childish, or anything like that. I was, but I should not have been. You are a pretty mature poster, and I am sorry for that comment.
Just do not think that discouraging a young guy from preparing for his future financially is good business.
But the personal stuff I said was uncalled for.
One should at least experience some kind of fulfillment in one's career, even if it's not
fun per se.
Quote from: bing_oh on November 18, 2007, 11:44:58 PM
Boy, I sure hope you have some idea of a career path by the time you graduate from Graduate School. I'd think you might want to consider that a little earlier, even. Most people prefer to choose majors in college that have some bearing on the career field they want to enter...
Ha! You'd be surprised to know how many people I know who don't know what they want to do with their degree, if anything. A lot of people don't have any idea what they want to do with their life, and they choose majors in stuff like sociology, English, psychology, etc.
I've got a vague idea of what I want to do now (geology), but I'm not about to predict the future and say that nothing else will catch my fancy, or that I won't decide I don't like rocks any longer, or etc.
Quote from: Psilos on November 19, 2007, 12:23:13 AM
Ha! You'd be surprised to know how many people I know who don't know what they want to do with their degree, if anything. A lot of people don't have any idea what they want to do with their life, and they choose majors in stuff like sociology, English, psychology, etc.
I've got a vague idea of what I want to do now (geology), but I'm not about to predict the future and say that nothing else will catch my fancy, or that I won't decide I don't like rocks any longer, or etc.
You're right. And, thank you for proving my point for me. Those 8th year Sophomores who are majoring in Beer Pong with a minor in Venerial Disease are the same ones who are still "finding themselves" while living in their parents' basements at age 35. The problem is, they're becoming more the rule than the exception in the younger generations today. Even my generation, the Gen X'ers, have that rep...and, for many of them, it's deserved. I actually think it's a contributing factor in the lack of qualified LE candidates today...we're raising generations of people who don't care about anything but "finding themselves," and that makes it tough to find people who want to get into a career where you have to sacrifice personal thing for the greater good of society.
There's a time when you have to become an adult. Becoming an adult doesn't mean that you can't have fun, it just means that your entire life doesn't revolve around the next buzz or the next lay (I'm 31 and, while I like a good buzz or a good lay as much as the next guy, it's not my entire life). In other words, becoming an adult means that you have to occasionally think about the future, even as you're living in the now.
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 11:51:07 PM
OHHHHHHHHH
And the croud goes wild as the champion levels his oppenent with a right cross, knocking him to the ground!
THIS...ONE...IS...OVER!
Thanks, Tony. I actually chuckled at that. :lol:
Yeah, no. There are probably plenty of beer pong super super seniors, but there are a lot of people who just don't know what they want to do, and pretty much no amount of thinking about it is going to help. However, that does not mean that they can't and don't think about the future.
Becoming an adult, hey? Becoming an adult means an increase in responsibility, an increase in maturity (in the way a person deals with that responsibility), and an increase in hangover intensity. Trust me, I know all about those things. There are plenty of old people with careers and all that who live for the next beer and the next meaningless fuck, and there are plenty of immature young-uns who don't. Adultism is about responsibility and maturity, not about a career and, what? kids?
Keep in mind that I've already said a few times that I think it's a good idea to think about the future and plan for it. Invest a bunch of money in an IRA, mutual funds, a house, what-have-you. Figure out what you might want to do for a career someday. Don't limit your options, and save some money. After all, you can have a job that pays well without having a career.
Quote from: Psilos on November 19, 2007, 12:17:29 AM
One should at least experience some kind of fulfillment in one's career, even if it's not fun per se.
Well, you have much to learn, I think.
But, there is nothing at all wrong with being idealistic.
And this was NOT meant as an insult. I remember those kinds of feelings, they just do not hang around long after you graduate.
I know plenty of old people (over 45 :lol: ) who have led fulfilling careers.
Quote from: Psilos on November 19, 2007, 01:15:44 AM
I know plenty of old people (over 45 :lol: ) who have led fulfilling careers.
Notice your use of a form of the past tense.
By that age, most people are sick of working. That's why planning for retirement is important. What's fulfilling at 25 or 30 may not be at 55 or 60. I think the mistake many younger people make is to not recognize that the way they'll want to spend their time will change as they get older, and they fail to take the steps that will allow them to accomodate their preferences as they age. Most people can't keep up the same pace at 60 that they did at 25, and few would want to in any case.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 21, 2007, 06:17:08 AM
Notice your use of a form of the past tense.
By that age, most people are sick of working.
At 45, you are at least 20 years away from the end of your working career. I don't understand people who think they can retire at 45 or 50 and just lounge around for the last half of their lives doing nothing.
Quote from: the nameless one on November 21, 2007, 07:15:36 AM
At 45, you are at least 20 years away from the end of your working career. I don't understand people who think they can retire at 45 or 50 and just lounge around for the last half of their lives doing nothing.
I don't think that's really what most people want to do.
I think most people don't want to have to work as hard in the latter part of their career. Many people have to really put in a huge amount of work to get themselves established and make good money when they're younger, and as they get older, they can't keep up that pace. Having a good retirement plan doesn't mean you stop working completely; it more means you don't have to go balls to the wall until you're 70.
Quote from: the nameless one on November 21, 2007, 07:15:36 AM
At 45, you are at least 20 years away from the end of your working career. I don't understand people who think they can retire at 45 or 50 and just lounge around for the last half of their lives doing nothing.
Hey, the minimum retirement age of 48 for LE in Ohio is one of the few benefits we have left. Most LE end up working a few years beyond the minimum, putting their time in DROP and essentially double-dipping for an extra wad of cash to play with after retirement, and then take a much slower-paced (and less stressful) post-retirement job. I have no intention of "just lounging around for the last half of my life doing nothing," considering that kind of attitude probably contributes heavily to the statistic that many LEO's die within 5 years of retirement.
Yeah, you can retire from that job at 20 or whatever...but as I said, I don't understand people who expect that they'll just sit around. I have no expectation of EVER totally retiring. I may be required to retire from THIS job at a certain age, but I'll always be working in some way, making money to keep my head above water. The concept of being retired at 65 was a 20th century concept created in an era of unprecedented national propsperity that has now disappeared.
Quote from: the nameless one on November 21, 2007, 08:01:38 AM
Yeah, you can retire from that job at 20 or whatever...but as I said, I don't understand people who expect that they'll just sit around. I have no expectation of EVER totally retiring. I may be required to retire from THIS job at a certain age, but I'll always be working in some way, making money to keep my head above water. The concept of being retired at 65 was a 20th century concept created in an era of unprecedented national propsperity that has now disappeared.
I think that how a person handles retirement has a lot to do with personality. Some people couldn't stand being fully retired, while others revel in it. I think most people need something to keep them busy to some degree, but it doesn't necessarily have to be a job. I agree that doing absolutely nothing is not healthy at all.
But as far as the financial aspects of retirement are concerned, people are pretty much responsible for that on their own. Social security is not enough to live on, unless you plan to eat pet food, and defined benefit pensions are being replaced with defined contribution savings plan. So in their older years, people will either reap the benefit or the whirlwind from the amounts they saved (or failed to save) when they were younger.
I think many people that plan to retire relatively young but aren't saving and are maintaining large amounts of debt are going to be in for a rude awakening, and will have to work longer than they like. The latest thing is that people think their houses are going to fund their retirement; that was never a very good or realistic concept. And the older ideas about retiring debt before hitting certain ages seem to be falling by the wayside, as people borrow as if there were no tomorrow. How some of these people ever expect to retire, with no savings and home equity loans out the wazoo, is beyond me. Many people are just financially unsophistocated and give it no thought.
It's true that traditionally, people worked until very late in life, and usually retired on average only a few years before they passed away. The concept of a long retirement period is a new one. If people save and accumulate enough money to live well in their final years without working, I have no problem with it.
You also have to consider health. Good health in later years (or really any time in life) can't be taken for granted. Not everbody is able to work right to the end.
Apologies for the mild hijack, but it seems appropriate here: if you old(er!) guys were 20 and had 2 grand to play with, what would you do with it besides have it in a CD? I don't exactly have my parents to fall back on for what I call innovative and impressive financial advice...
Quote from: J86 on November 21, 2007, 09:14:21 AM
Apologies for the mild hijack, but it seems appropriate here: if you old(er!) guys were 20 and had 2 grand to play with, what would you do with it besides have it in a CD? I don't exactly have my parents to fall back on for what I call innovative and impressive financial advice...
Josh, others may disagree, but I suggest you keep it in a CD. It's not enough money to meaningfully create a balanced portfolio, and I don't think you have enough to risk the principal. You always have to have a certain percentage and/or amount of money in cash, so I don't think you have enough to start investing.
I agree, keep it in the CD.
Quote from: Psilos on November 17, 2007, 04:31:07 PM
So you're 23? 24? And you're looking for a lifetime career? I assume you've considered that you're still young and don't need to plan your life until you retire just yet...
At any rate, I certainly don't want a career until I'm 30 or older.
I want to retire around then.
:lol:
Quote from: dazzleman on November 21, 2007, 01:57:39 PM
Josh, others may disagree, but I suggest you keep it in a CD. It's not enough money to meaningfully create a balanced portfolio, and I don't think you have enough to risk the principal. You always have to have a certain percentage and/or amount of money in cash, so I don't think you have enough to start investing.
I was actually talking to some people today, and I think I'm gonna keep it there and potentially use it for LSAT tutor...we'll see.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 21, 2007, 01:57:39 PM
Josh, others may disagree, but I suggest you keep it in a CD. It's not enough money to meaningfully create a balanced portfolio, and I don't think you have enough to risk the principal. You always have to have a certain percentage and/or amount of money in cash, so I don't think you have enough to start investing.
But it would do alot better in a Roth IRA account. It could be worth as much as $450,000 in 50 years. Aweful hard to beat those kinds of gains.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 06:58:33 PM
But it would do alot better in a Roth IRA account. It could be worth as much as $450,000 in 50 years. Aweful hard to beat those kinds of gains.
Maybe, but Josh is 20. This is a tiny amount of money, and he has a lot of needs more immediate than retirement. If he takes the money out of an IRA, he will likely face penalties. I wouldn't recommend that a 20-year-old put the only money he has into a retirement account. I think that's insane.
You'd probably be better off putting it in a money market (a CD with a decent rate will have a min much higher than $2 grand). Most likely you would get similar results from a money market without being locked in.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 21, 2007, 07:00:06 PM
Maybe, but Josh is 20. This is a tiny amount of money, and he has a lot of needs more immediate than retirement. If he takes the money out of an IRA, he will likely face penalties. I wouldn't recommend that a 20-year-old put the only money he has into a retirement account. I think that's insane.
Thats pretty short sighted, but thats just my opinion.
First off, its ONLY a couple grand. While I realize that may be his only cushion right now, IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO PLAN FOR RETIREMENT.
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that? If I took that approach, I would be on medical disability drawing only pennies on the dollar. ($758/mo. to be exact)
Money Market? Seriously? MMA's are about 4-4.75% average right now. Savings are about the same. He might just as well leave it in savings.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:39:20 PM
Thats pretty short sighted.
First off, its ONLY a couple grand. While I realize that may be his only cushion right now, IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO PLAN FOR RETIREMENT.
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that? If I took that approach, I would be on medical disability drawing only pennies on the dollar. ($758/mo. to be exact)
Money Market? Seriously? MMA's are about 4-4.75% average right now. Savings are about the same. He might just as well leave it in savings.
What's the point of saving for later if you can't live now? :rolleyes:
Quote from: bing_oh on November 21, 2007, 07:39:59 AM
Hey, the minimum retirement age of 48 for LE in Ohio is one of the few benefits we have left. Most LE end up working a few years beyond the minimum, putting their time in DROP and essentially double-dipping for an extra wad of cash to play with after retirement, and then take a much slower-paced (and less stressful) post-retirement job. I have no intention of "just lounging around for the last half of my life doing nothing," considering that kind of attitude probably contributes heavily to the statistic that many LEO's die within 5 years of retirement.
Agreed. I had planned on working with my wife in our own consulting/engineering firm, until I got sick. When I get stronger that may still be an option.
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 09:45:28 PM
What's the point of saving for later if you can't live now? :rolleyes:
He has a job, does he not?
Its no wonder so many in this country will live in poverty after the age of about 65. :rolleyes:
Living today should not mean spending every penny you have for fun. Its called "Responsible spending behavior, " and it is taught in basic economics.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:50:10 PM
He has a job, does he not?
Its no wonder so many in this country will live in poverty after the age of about 65. :rolleyes:
He's in college and has more important expenses than saving for retirement. :rolleyes:
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 09:51:57 PM
He's in college and has more important expenses than saving for retirement. :rolleyes:
Well, since HE is the one asking about what to do with money, and saying he IS concerned with retirement I guess that makes your arguement null and void. :rolleyes:
Quote from: J86 on November 21, 2007, 09:14:21 AM
Apologies for the mild hijack, but it seems appropriate here: if you old(er!) guys were 20 and had 2 grand to play with, what would you do with it besides have it in a CD? I don't exactly have my parents to fall back on for what I call innovative and impressive financial advice...
:rolleyes:
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:53:37 PM
Well, since HE is the one asking about what to do with money, and saying he IS concerned with retirement I guess that makes your arguement null and void. :rolleyes:
When did he say that?
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 09:55:26 PM
When did he say that?
Right above this original post I quoted it.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:56:40 PM
Right above this original post I quoted it.
Where?
he didn't mention anything about retirement.
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 09:59:50 PM
Where?
he didn't mention anything about retirement.
Fine, I thought the poster was R, no the boat boy. Either way, the advice I gave is sound.
Oh, and since I am in a grouchy mood anyway~
Go fuck yourself Raghaven.
Notice the lack of smily faces.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 10:02:21 PM
Fine, I thought the poster was R, no the boat boy. Either way, the advice I gave is sound.
Oh, and since I am in a grouchy mood anyway~
Go fuck yourself Raghaven.
Notice the lack of smily faces.
You're just mad that I just owned you, old man. :rolleyes:
And I like how you can't spell my name right even though it's plainly written out 4 times in this page alone (not including this post).
:rolleyes:
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 10:06:08 PM
You're just mad that I just owned you, old man. :rolleyes:
And I like how you can't spell my name right even though it's plainly written out 4 times in this page alone (not including this post).
:rolleyes:
Nicely done :ohyeah:
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 10:06:08 PM
You're just mad that I just owned you, old man. :rolleyes:
And I like how you can't spell my name right even though it's plainly written out 4 times in this page alone (not including this post).
:rolleyes:
I spelled it that way on purpose, ding dong.
I was just joking around, but if you keep rolling your eyes at me, you may not want to meet me in person. Boy.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 10:19:27 PM
I spelled it that way on purpose, ding dong.
I was just joking around, but if you keep rolling your eyes at me, you may not want to meet me in person. Boy.
:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
:devil: :lol:
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 10:19:27 PM
I was just joking around, but if you keep rolling your eyes at me, you may not want to meet me in person. Boy.
Dad?
(My father gets REALLY pissy whenever anyone rolls their eyes. It's his biggest pet peeve)
Quote from: TheIntrepid on November 21, 2007, 10:21:31 PM
Dad?
(My father gets REALLY pissy whenever anyone rolls their eyes. It's his biggest pet peeve)
For the record;
We are partying here tonight, I was on and walked away a few minutes. Dickhead Rohan Randy has been messing around. Please ignore him, for he is too drunk to know what he does. Sorry, all.
Looks like he started in about the time Rag pointed out that I was wrong who posted the comments about the extra couple grand. Again, sorry. Scratch that, he will be sorry. :nono:
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 10:30:05 PM
Looks like he started in about the time Rag pointed out that I was wrong who posted the comments about the extra couple grand. Again, sorry. Scratch that, he will be sorry. :nono:
There's gonna be some pwnage in that house tonight...
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 21, 2007, 10:32:14 PM
There's gonna be some pwnage in that house tonight...
It's like they're 10 year olds. :huh:
Quote from: CALL_911 on November 21, 2007, 10:44:33 PM
:confused:
Playful fighting, etc. It's pretty funny. :lol:
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 10:30:05 PM
Looks like he started in about the time Rag pointed out that I was wrong who posted the comments about the extra couple grand. Again, sorry. Scratch that, he will be sorry. :nono:
Maybe he's just paying you back for that prank you pulled on him as payback for the prank he pulled on you... :lol:
Quote from: dazzleman on November 21, 2007, 06:17:08 AM
Notice your use of a form of the past tense.
By that age, most people are sick of working. That's why planning for retirement is important. What's fulfilling at 25 or 30 may not be at 55 or 60. I think the mistake many younger people make is to not recognize that the way they'll want to spend their time will change as they get older, and they fail to take the steps that will allow them to accomodate their preferences as they age. Most people can't keep up the same pace at 60 that they did at 25, and few would want to in any case.
I know plenty of old people (over 45 :lol: ) who
still lead fulfilling careers.
the retirement advice is useful too, I was wondering if someone was gonna suggest that...
'boat boy', ha!
Quote from: Psilos on November 22, 2007, 12:20:30 AM
I know plenty of old people (over 45 :lol: ) who still lead fulfilling careers.
Well, that's great for them. Mine is still somewhat fulfilling, but the issue is not so much fulfillment but the level of demands it makes on me.
With all the communications devices available now, most people have seen significant intrusion of work into their personal time, and as people get older, it becomes more difficult for most to keep up with the demands.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:39:20 PM
Thats pretty short sighted, but thats just my opinion.
First off, its ONLY a couple grand. While I realize that may be his only cushion right now, IT IS NEVER TOO EARLY TO PLAN FOR RETIREMENT.
Why is it so hard for you guys to understand that? If I took that approach, I would be on medical disability drawing only pennies on the dollar. ($758/mo. to be exact)
Money Market? Seriously? MMA's are about 4-4.75% average right now. Savings are about the same. He might just as well leave it in savings.
Tony, I agree with you in principle about the need for early savings, but I think you're taking it to too much of an extreme.
First off, it may be ONLY a couple of thousand to you and me, but if that's your only money, then it's a lot of money to you.
As far as saving for retirement goes, I think people should start saving for retirement as soon as they start working full time. I did. [Though in reality, the money I saved during those early years was a pittance compared to what I'm saving now because my income then was so low compared to what it is now.] But Josh isn't even done with school yet.
Also, no way should any person's entire investment portfolio be in a retirement account. There has to be some in regular accounts to meet current needs.
Eventually buying a home is an important part of retirement planning also, IMO, and that's a more immediate goal than retirement accounts at this point.
It's really all about balance. It's important to save for tomorrow, but you have to live for today too, because you can't be sure tomorrow will come (I know you know that). Most people today go too far in the direction of living "in the moment" without thought of the future, but it's not good to go too far in the other direction either.
Quote from: Raghavan on November 21, 2007, 09:51:57 PM
He's in college and has more important expenses than saving for retirement. :rolleyes:
Unless he was planning on putting that money towards tuition, an expendiature that result in a gain in earning power down the road, I would say the $$ should stay where its at. If his "more important expenses" consisted of beer and pizza spending money, he doesn't really "need" that stuff.
Quote from: hounddog on November 21, 2007, 09:39:20 PM
Money Market? Seriously? MMA's are about 4-4.75% average right now. Savings are about the same. He might just as well leave it in savings.
Which is within .5% of a $10,000 min CD (asked my advisor about it last month) and far more than a traditional savings account.
It would be plain retarded for a 20 year old college student to lock up his money, unless he is just rolling in it (which I am guessing he isn't it). It is too early to start saving for your retirement when you're not earning a consistent pay check and have considerable expenses directly ahead of you.
Quote from: J86 on November 22, 2007, 01:07:30 AM
'boat boy', ha!
HA! We'ld been at it quite a whiole when I was here- :partyon: Tony was pretty pissed at me. :tounge: Threatened to cut me off :rockon:
Great, I'm glad this turned into four pages of our pubescent members displaying their stupidity, yet again... :rage:
Quote from: J86 on November 21, 2007, 09:14:21 AM
Apologies for the mild hijack, but it seems appropriate here: if you old(er!) guys were 20 and had 2 grand to play with, what would you do with it besides have it in a CD? I don't exactly have my parents to fall back on for what I call innovative and impressive financial advice...
I'd just keep it in savings and spend only what you have to.
College is too rife with unexpected expenses to sock it away permamently.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 23, 2007, 09:28:46 AM
I'd just keep it in savings and spend only what you have to.
College is too rife with unexpected expenses to sock it away permamently.
That was my point. People shouldn't tie money up until they have a steady income, and a base of cash to cover unexpected contingencies.
Quote from: the nameless one on November 22, 2007, 10:11:22 AM
Unless he was planning on putting that money towards tuition, an expendiature that result in a gain in earning power down the road, I would say the $$ should stay where its at. If his "more important expenses" consisted of beer and pizza spending money, he doesn't really "need" that stuff.
He wants to spend it on a tutor, so yes, he'd gain money down the road.
I was arguing that putting that money into retirement instead of spending it for a tutor is really really dumb.
Quote from: R-inge on November 23, 2007, 08:11:03 AM
Great, I'm glad this turned into four pages of our pubescent members displaying their stupidity, yet again... :rage:
Actually, Roy, it was Hounddog who started the "save for retirement" thing, and the Psilos was arguing with him. Then I was arguing with Hounddog.
So no, it wasn't the usualy me, Ro and Trep thing this time. You can't blame us. :praise:
Quote from: Raghavan on November 23, 2007, 10:38:53 AM
Actually, Roy, it was Hounddog who started the "save for retirement" thing, and the Psilos was arguing with him. Then I was arguing with Hounddog.
So no, it wasn't the usualy me, Ro and Trep thing this time. You can't blame us. :praise:
2 things I've noticed about those arguments:
1. They never happened, or involved me when I "wasn't" 15.
2. They're always one of us against Trep. :lol:
Quote from: Raghavan on November 23, 2007, 10:37:10 AM
He wants to spend it on a tutor, so yes, he'd gain money down the road.
I was arguing that putting that money into retirement instead of spending it for a tutor is really really dumb.
It is never too soon to start good saving habits.
maybe it wasnt such a mild hijack! :lol:
Sorry, Roy!
Quote from: J86 on November 24, 2007, 07:51:00 AM
maybe it wasnt such a mild hijack! :lol:
Sorry, Roy!
I hope you're happy that you ruined the thread, Josh..... :lol:
Actually, I think the original question in the thread was answered by the LEOs, so it have probably run its course anyway. But don't let that alleviate your guilt, man... :evildude:
Quote from: hounddog on November 18, 2007, 10:06:29 PM
You know, I just realized something. In Michigan, where I live, my driver license is under medical revocation until review. BUT, I can legally drive my boat on the open water.
AND DRINK A BEER WHILE I DRIVE IT.
WTF?
Haha, weird, isn't it? I was driving a boat years before I was old enough to drive a car. An officer from the NJ State Police Marine Division came into my elementary school (7th grade, I think), gave a boating course over a few weeks and we all got our boat operator certificates (assuming we passed the test). Now everyone needs the certificate, but until a couple years ago, you only needed certification to drive in closed, lake waters. Not open bays or the ocean. :huh:
And, not only can you drink and drive at the same time, you can drink and drive WHILE GOING AS FAST AS YOU WANT! Hehe, I love boating!
(Yes, .08 still applies.)
Quote from: J86 on November 21, 2007, 09:14:21 AM
Apologies for the mild hijack, but it seems appropriate here: if you old(er!) guys were 20 and had 2 grand to play with, what would you do with it besides have it in a CD? I don't exactly have my parents to fall back on for what I call innovative and impressive financial advice...
Definitely a CD. When it's all you have, why risk it on some stock?
Banks are definitely safer than the market.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 23, 2007, 09:35:29 AM
That was my point. People shouldn't tie money up until they have a steady income, and a base of cash to cover unexpected contingencies.
But he asked what he should do with a couple thousand he has "To play with." He was not asking what he should do with his hard earned savings. I took it as he was asking what the best yeild would be on what types of investments. Re-reading the post, I still take it that way.
Quote from: R-inge on November 25, 2007, 09:40:44 PM
Banks are definitely safer than the market.
Maybe, maybe not. The banks take your money, and use it to play the stockmarket. The amount you put in is insured, so you shouldn't lose your money. But, you do not see any real yeild from your savings account because interest rates are so low.
Quote from: hounddog on November 26, 2007, 07:20:50 PM
Maybe, maybe not. The banks take your money, and use it to play the stockmarket. The amount you put in is insured, so you shouldn't lose your money. But, you do not see any real yeild from your savings account because interest rates are so low.
Well, if you put $1,000,000 in a savings account, you live a modest life purely off the interest. :lol:
Quote from: NACar on November 26, 2007, 07:22:00 PM
Well, if you put $1,000,000 in a savings account, you live a modest life purely off the interest. :lol:
True. Unfortunately, that is not what we were talking about, is it now? ;)
But again, that could be very risky as well. Most banks only insure up to $250,000. So, your other $750,000 would be hanging out to dry.
Quote from: hounddog on November 26, 2007, 07:17:56 PM
But he asked what he should do with a couple thousand he has "To play with." He was not asking what he should do with his hard earned savings. I took it as he was asking what the best yeild would be on what types of investments. Re-reading the post, I still take it that way.
Considering Josh's situation (junior or senior in college, planning on law school), it is foolish to recommend an IRA, even if he isn't adverse to risk.
Quote from: hounddog on November 26, 2007, 07:23:49 PM
True. Unfortunately, that is not what we were talking about, is it now? ;)
But again, that could be very risky as well. Most banks only insure up to $250,000. So, your other $750,000 would be hanging out to dry.
You could spread it around different banks.
Even so, $1,000,000 wouldn't really yield enough interest to live, especially since the purchasing power of the interest would decline every year. If you're going to live off interest, you have to generate enough interest so that you can afford to increase your principal sufficiently every year so that your interest income goes up every year to compensate for inflation.
I've been doing my own retirement planning lately, so I'm wrestling with these issues. The big question for me is how big a portfolio I need, at any given age, to be able to stop working and live comfortably after that. I need to be careful, because I'm not a low-budget kind of guy..... :tounge:
Quote from: TBR on November 26, 2007, 07:25:41 PM
Considering Josh's situation (junior or senior in college, planning on law school), it is foolish to recommend an IRA, even if he isn't adverse to risk.
But, that was NOT how he presented the question. And, he has not made any statements since then to say otherwise. And, it is NEVER foolish to give sound investment advice, nor is it foolish to ask for that advice.
Look, to say its foolish is in itself foolish. Any man who fails to plan will fail.
Quote from: dazzleman on November 26, 2007, 07:29:24 PM
You could spread it around different banks.
Even so, $1,000,000 wouldn't really yield enough interest to live, especially since the purchasing power of the interest would decline every year. If you're going to live off interest, you have to generate enough interest so that you can afford to increase your principal sufficiently every year so that your interest income goes up every year to compensate for inflation.
I've been doing my own retirement planning lately, so I'm wrestling with these issues.
Doing your own planning? Have you ever heard of the saying about doctors operating on themselves?
If I may offer some advice regarding that? At least have someone look it over as you go and get input. An example;
I was doing some portfolio investing about a year and a half ago. I had been watching Honeywell, it was sitting around 32-36 for many months. But their quarterlies, business news, cash on hand, and credit was always at the higest marks. I was hesitant and asked my advisor, he told me to buy it as it had historically been stronger that what it is now. It went to the high 50's earlier this year. Had I not asked him, I would have hesitated and probably not bought.
Quote from: hounddog on November 26, 2007, 07:36:09 PM
Doing your own planning? Have you ever heard of the saying about doctors operating on themselves?
If I may offer some advice regarding that? At least have someone look it over as you go and get input. An example;
I was doing some portfolio investing about a year and a half ago. I had been watching Honeywell, it was sitting around 32-36 for many months. But their quarterlies, business news, cash on hand, and credit was always at the higest marks. I was hesitant and asked my advisor, he told me to buy it as it had historically been stronger that what it is now. It went to the high 50's earlier this year. Had I not asked him, I would have hesitated and probably not bought.
I should have chosen my words better. I am working with a financial advisor with respect to my retirement planning. I agree with you. I'll give you another variation -- the person who is his own lawyer has a fool for a client.
Quote from: hounddog on November 26, 2007, 07:20:50 PM
Maybe, maybe not. The banks take your money, and use it to play the stockmarket. The amount you put in is insured, so you shouldn't lose your money. But, you do not see any real yeild from your savings account because interest rates are so low.
Safe, but not very lucrative.