Link with Article (http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=6&article_id=2359)
This is the first new BMW in 6 years (since the E46) that I have really liked, very nice! :lol:
This might seem odd and way out of line...but it reminds me of an Eclipse.
QuoteThis might seem odd and way out of line...but it reminds me of an Eclipse.
Youre odd and way out of line :lol:
QuoteThis is the first new BMW in 6 years (since the E46) that I have really liked, very nice! :lol:
Good to hear :)
QuoteQuoteThis might seem odd and way out of line...but it reminds me of an Eclipse.
Youre odd and way out of line :lol:
:ph34r:
s'ok...
they need to reduce the weight more to get a real sports car.
The M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
QuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
why, cos it has a backseat?
QuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
why, cos it has a backseat?
Partly, but also because it weights 4000 lbs (or close to it).
QuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
QuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
how's the M3 a GT?
QuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
The M3 is a sports car in my book...it has razar sharp hadling, lots of power, and is very light.
QuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
Yeah, that is a toughy. It is sort of bit of both, it is too big to be a sports car but rides to rough to be a GT. Really the only 100% sports car BMW sells is the Z4.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
Yeah, that is a toughy. It is sort of bit of both, it is too big to be a sports car but rides to rough to be a GT. Really the only 100% sports car BMW sells is the Z4.
some sports cars looks monstrous.
Like what?
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
The M3 is a sports car in my book...it has razar sharp hadling, lots of power, and is very light.
Your book needs to be thrown in a trash can fire to keep a bum warm at night. It's not a sports car--it's a GT. Calling a car what it is isn't a bad thing. My computer is not a typewriter; it's a computer.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe M6 isn't supposed to be a sports car, that is the job of the M3. The M6 is a? GT, and a darn fast one at that.
I wouldn't call the M3 a sports car either, but instead a slower, more nimble GT car.
The M3 is a sports car in my book...it has razar sharp hadling, lots of power, and is very light.
Your book needs to be thrown in a trash can fire to keep a bum warm at night. It's not a sports car--it's a GT. Calling a car what it is isn't a bad thing. My computer is not a typewriter; it's a computer.
I disagree. And welcome back :lol:
Me likey.
QuoteLike what?
the saleen s7, for one.
QuoteQuoteLike what?
the saleen s7, for one.
The S7 is the size and price of a house. It's also not a sports car.
It can be thrown in with the loose category of "supercar" which I think was invented to make cars like the Veyron look like a good idea. But all in all, it's a GT.
QuoteQuoteQuoteLike what?
the saleen s7, for one.
The S7 is the size and price of a house. It's also not a sports car.
It can be thrown in with the loose category of "supercar" which I think was invented to make cars like the Veyron look like a good idea. But all in all, it's a GT.
the S7 is NOT a gt.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteLike what?
the saleen s7, for one.
The S7 is the size and price of a house. It's also not a sports car.
It can be thrown in with the loose category of "supercar" which I think was invented to make cars like the Veyron look like a good idea. But all in all, it's a GT.
the S7 is NOT a gt.
So it's a 2 door, 2 seat, open top car?
Get over the idea that sports cars have to be convertibles, that is no longer an applicable qualification. These days convertible tops add weight and reduce rigidity.
QuoteGet over the idea that sports cars have to be convertibles, that is no longer an applicable qualification. These days convertible tops add weight and reduce rigidity.
I don't care whether or not the industry chose the wrong path--definitions shouldn't change. Calling a car a GT is not an insult, mind you, you all act as if it is. An open top (convertible/targa/t tops) is a necessary part of the definition of a sports car. Just like 2 door, 2 seat. A 911 will never be a sports car (the GT2 and GT3 come close, but they're fixed roof).
QuoteQuoteGet over the idea that sports cars have to be convertibles, that is no longer an applicable qualification. These days convertible tops add weight and reduce rigidity.
I don't care whether or not the industry chose the wrong path--definitions shouldn't change. Calling a car a GT is not an insult, mind you, you all act as if it is. An open top (convertible/targa/t tops) is a necessary part of the definition of a sports car. Just like 2 door, 2 seat. A 911 will never be a sports car (the GT2 and GT3 come close, but they're fixed roof).
Why? Because you think so? Well, you are wrong.
QuoteQuoteQuoteGet over the idea that sports cars have to be convertibles, that is no longer an applicable qualification. These days convertible tops add weight and reduce rigidity.
I don't care whether or not the industry chose the wrong path--definitions shouldn't change. Calling a car a GT is not an insult, mind you, you all act as if it is. An open top (convertible/targa/t tops) is a necessary part of the definition of a sports car. Just like 2 door, 2 seat. A 911 will never be a sports car (the GT2 and GT3 come close, but they're fixed roof).
Why? Because you think so? Well, you are wrong.
Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top.
So, you're wrong.
Why should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
QuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
QuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless. They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.
The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.
Who the fuck cares what the definition is?
I'm going to call cars like the Z06 Sports Cars, even if they do not fit the 1930s definition of "sports car".
My Oxford Dictionary of Current English defines "sports car" as:
"low built fast car"
So, now the Oxford english dictionary is wrong, because Raza and 5th Gear say otherwise?
Yes.
ChrisV agrees with me, too.
QuoteYes.
ChrisV agrees with me, too.
Fantastic.
QuoteYes.
ChrisV agrees with me, too.
ChrisV just happens to be a pompous, arrogant guy who thinks he knows everything. Sort of reminds you of someone else that posts on car message boards, doesn't he?
QuoteQuoteYes.
ChrisV agrees with me, too.
ChrisV just happens to be a pompous, arrogant guy who thinks he knows everything. Sort of reminds you of someone else that posts on car message boards, doesn't he?
Who me?
Yeah, a little.
I don't think Porsche considers the 911 a sports car either, that's why they made the Boxster.
The track versions are called "GT3" or "GT2" for a reason. they are grand tourers. This is not a diss to the 911, as most cars commonly referred to as "sports cars" are usually GT cars.
QuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
so the Viper coupe isn't a sports car while the viper convetible is?
you're view on sports cars are flawed, raza.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless. They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.
The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.
well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car. :rolleyes:
Quotewell then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car. :rolleyes:
The Porsche GT3 is a GT, and the Boxster is a sports car. The GT3 is a much better, faster car than the Boxster. There is no part of the defintion of a sports car that says it has to be faster than a similar GT.
An STi, by definition is certainly not a sports car, but it sure is a helluva sporty car. :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless. They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.
The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.
well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car. :rolleyes:
The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.
QuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
so the Viper coupe isn't a sports car while the viper convetible is?
you're view on sports cars are flawed, raza.
There is no Viper coupe anymore. And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car.
" There is no Viper coupe anymore. And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car."
Yes there is, or at least there will be one shortly (as an '06 I believe).
Quote" There is no Viper coupe anymore. And the old RT10 was one of the best examples of a true sports car."
Yes there is, or at least there will be one shortly (as an '06 I believe).
Then when it comes out, it will be a GT, and the SRT10 roadster will be a sports car.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless. They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.
The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.
well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car. :rolleyes:
The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.
"Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."
Thse SSR uses a platform that it shares with SUVs and is styled like a pickup, but overall it fits that definition.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteWhy should we go by Fifth Gear's definition? Everyone else's definition is a rwd car that focuses primarly on sport, something the majority of convertibles no longer do.
It's the definition that's been used several times, through the ages. There's a reason the M5 is a "sport sedan" and not a sports car. The M3 is not a sports car. The S4, Evo, STi, and 911 are not sports cars. The Dodge Viper is.
Get over it man.
I have no problem with the S4, Evo, and STi not being called sports cars, they clearly have 4 doors. The 911, on the otherhand, is most definitely a sports car. It focuses on sport, has a low weight, high power, rwd, and 2 doors only. That is what a sports car is. A 911 cabriolet is no sportier than a 911 Coupe, so how can it be a sports car if the coupe isn't?
No 911s are sports cars--they have four seats.
Why don't you just let everything in? Is the Escalade a sports car now too?
2 of which are useless.
Comparing the 911 and Escalade is nothing short of ludicrous. What is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty? Absolutely nothing.
It doesn't matter whether or not the rear seats are useless. They are there, and therefore, convertible or not, it is a GT.
The comparison is ludicrous, yes--to highlight your argument.
well then, we can call the Viper coupe a GT, and we can call teh overweight SSR a sports car. :rolleyes:
The SSR is a convertible pickup truck--not a sports car.
"Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."
Thse SSR uses a platform that it shares with SUVs and is styled like a pickup, but overall it fits that definition.
Then, by many of your definitions, many pickup trucks would be considered sports cars as well.
You're all just being foolish. Is a 2 door Blazer a coupe? No. It's a truck.
I'm being no more foolish than you are. Two can play your little definition game.
The definition I'm seeing for a "truck" is "any of various heavy motor vehicles designed for carrying or pulling loads." Does the SSR fit that definition?
I don't see what the big deal is here.
A GT can be as simple as a hardtop sports car, or it can have 4 seats, etc...but sports car by defintion implies some sort of open top.
Claiming a truck is a sports car doesn't make Raza's point look silly, it makes you look silly IMHO.
I'm only showing how outdated definitions allow for too many exceptions today. I don't actually consider the SSR a sports car, but it is one according to such worthless definitions.
QuoteI'm only showing how outdated definitions allow for too many exceptions today. I don't actually consider the SSR a sports car, but Raza's definition doesn't say that it isn't one.
Actually it does. It says it need sto be a car. Read the sentence again.
What is the SSR then? It definitely doesn't meet the definition that I found for a truck (any of various heavy motor vehicles designed for carrying or pulling loads).
Again, I'm not trying to say that the SSR is a car. I'm only trying to show the limited usefulness of an old and general definition.
The SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
QuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
QuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt. What deffinition says they aren't?
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt. What deffinition says they aren't?
Raza. :rolleyes:
"A sports car is a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top."
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt. What deffinition says they aren't?
Raza. :rolleyes:
Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top.
That one? Well then what would a 911, Z, or Vette be? :rolleyes: They aren't supercars, exotics, or musclecars (though the Vette could be)...that deffinition isn't very good.
Look through this thread, he's basically fighting by himself on this one.
QuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
The Corvette is a sports car. The Z06 is not. Remember, a targa, like the Elise, is an open top, and therefore falls into the category of a sports car.
The SSR has a bed, like a pickup truck. Therefore, it is indeed a pickup truck and probably is designed for pulling or hauling loads. By your definitions, the Lightning and Ram SRT10 are both sports cars.
I consider the Lightning and SRT10 to be sport trucks, not sports cars.
I am still trying to find out why a convertible top makes cars sportier. :rolleyes:
Also, the SSR doesn't have a bed, it has a large, enclosed trunk. I don't believe the lid is even removable.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt. What deffinition says they aren't?
Raza. :rolleyes:
Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top.
That one? Well then what would a 911, Z, or Vette be? :rolleyes: They aren't supercars, exotics, or musclecars (though the Vette could be)...that deffinition isn't very good.
A Vette is a sports car, I used it as an example several times. The 911 (which has 4 seats) is a GT and the 350Z (which has a fixed roof) is a GT as well. You can get iffy on the 350Z roadster, which by some definitions would be a sports car and by some it wouldn't. Some say no coupe based roadsters (as in this model) and some say as long as it's an open top. I tend to fall into the "designed as an open top" crowd, but it could go either way, depending on whether they designed the cars simultaneously or not. But since the coupe came out first, it might still be considered a GT.
QuoteI consider the Lightning and SRT10 to be sport trucks, not sports cars.
Which they are. You would be correct.
I thought a GT was a coupe with 4 seats...? Hmm I'm all confused. Or is that a 2+2? :blink:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
Yeah...350Z, 911, and Vette are deffinitely sports cars, no doubt. What deffinition says they aren't?
Raza. :rolleyes:
Fifth Gear defines a sports car as a 2 seat, 2 door, rwd car with a manual transmission and an open top.
That one? Well then what would a 911, Z, or Vette be? :rolleyes: They aren't supercars, exotics, or musclecars (though the Vette could be)...that deffinition isn't very good.
A Vette is a sports car, I used it as an example several times. The 911 (which has 4 seats) is a GT and the 350Z (which has a fixed roof) is a GT as well. You can get iffy on the 350Z roadster, which by some definitions would be a sports car and by some it wouldn't. Some say no coupe based roadsters (as in this model) and some say as long as it's an open top. I tend to fall into the "designed as an open top" crowd, but it could go either way, depending on whether they designed the cars simultaneously or not. But since the coupe came out first, it might still be considered a GT.
Proving my earlier post regarding pompous and arrogant behavior, are you? You act like you have already won the debate and are just explaining how it works. Well, you're out numbered here wildly and the debate is still alive and kicking.
One of the dangers of knowing everything is being called a know it all.
The SSR is listed as a truck on Chevy's website, and the bed cover is removeable.
QuoteI thought a GT was a coupe with 4 seats...? Hmm I'm all confused. Or is that a 2+2? :blink:
A GT is a 2 door, 2 or 4 (2+2 as well) seat, RWD or AWD car with a fixed roof or an AWD open top car that fits all other qualifications
QuoteOne of the dangers of knowing everything is being called a know it all.
The SSR is listed as a truck on Chevy's website, and the bed cover is removeable.
Is it any easier to remove than the typical trunk lid? Probably not. It certainly was designed to be left on the vehicle most of the time.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe SSR might possibly be a sports car by deffinition, but to most car enthusiasts, the SSR is a slow, heavy, poor-handling truck that has been lowered 6 inches with the roof chopped off and the bed covered.
Exactly. The same way a 350Z, 911, or Corvette could be considered a sports car by enthusiasts while a 50-year-old definition says that they are not.
The Corvette is a sports car. The Z06 is not. Remember, a targa, like the Elise, is an open top, and therefore falls into the category of a sports car.
The SSR has a bed, like a pickup truck. Therefore, it is indeed a pickup truck and probably is designed for pulling or hauling loads. By your definitions, the Lightning and Ram SRT10 are both sports cars.
The SSR is rated for "light" trailer duty, the same rating as a Passat. It certainly was not designed with hauling in mind.
And I'm not trying to create any definitions here, I'm trying to show why there shouldn't be any. Too many exceptions, not the least of which being the fact that an SSR fits into your definition while a Corvette Z06 does not.
My point is that there should not be such rigid rules as to what makes a "sports car" and what doesn't, and that even the basic guidelines have been updated in the minds of essentially everyone but yourself.
QuoteQuoteI thought a GT was a coupe with 4 seats...? Hmm I'm all confused. Or is that a 2+2? :blink:
A GT is a 2 door, 2 or 4 (2+2 as well) seat, RWD or AWD car with a fixed roof or an AWD open top car that fits all other qualifications
Thank you for clarifying. ^_^
You see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
QuoteQuoteQuoteI thought a GT was a coupe with 4 seats...? Hmm I'm all confused. Or is that a 2+2? :blink:
A GT is a 2 door, 2 or 4 (2+2 as well) seat, RWD or AWD car with a fixed roof or an AWD open top car that fits all other qualifications
Thank you for clarifying. ^_^
Quit encouraging him! ;) :lol:
QuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
No, the problem is that your definition is wrong and pretty much everyone on here agrees that it is wrong. Let me ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty?
If, if you've got a grudge with definitions, you might want to call up Webster's and Oxford and tell them to get a fire going...they've got some burning to do.
QuoteQuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
No, the problem is that your definition is wrong and pretty much everyone on here agrees. Let me ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty?
My definition is correct.
And nothing, necessarily. It's just a name--things are named and we associated things with them. There are plenty of sedans (3 series, S4, C55, et al) that are car sportier than several coupes (Eclipse, Sebring, Grand Am). However, that does not make them coupes.
QuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
I consider a Blazer an SUV.
QuoteQuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
I consider a Blazer an SUV.
I use the terms interchangeably. The SUV was created by putting a roof on a pickup truck. So, in essence call it a truck is nonspecific compared to calling it an SUV. It's like saying "car" instead of "sedan".
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
No, the problem is that your definition is wrong and pretty much everyone on here agrees. Let me ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty?
My definition is correct.
And nothing, necessarily. It's just a name--things are named and we associated things with them. There are plenty of sedans (3 series, S4, C55, et al) that are car sportier than several coupes (Eclipse, Sebring, Grand Am). However, that does not make them coupes.
Why is it correct? Because you say so? You know I used to like you, but in this debate you have proven yourself to be just as pompous and arrogant as ChrisV.
And, I ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes cars more sporty? Just answer the question!
QuoteIf, if you've got a grudge with definitions, you might want to call up Webster's and Oxford and tell them to get a fire going...they've got some burning to do.
If that's the best response you can come up with, I suppose I already won. :rolleyes:
QuoteQuoteQuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
I consider a Blazer an SUV.
I use the terms interchangeably. The SUV was created by putting a roof on a pickup truck. So, in essence call it a truck is nonspecific compared to calling it an SUV. It's like saying "car" instead of "sedan".
That makes sense.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteYou see, herein lies the problem. The Z06 does not fit the qualifications of my definition. Neither does the SSR. Only in your perception do you think it does. Again, I ask you, is a two door Blazer a coupe? Or a two door truck?
No, the problem is that your definition is wrong and pretty much everyone on here agrees. Let me ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes a car more sporty?
My definition is correct.
And nothing, necessarily. It's just a name--things are named and we associated things with them. There are plenty of sedans (3 series, S4, C55, et al) that are car sportier than several coupes (Eclipse, Sebring, Grand Am). However, that does not make them coupes.
Why is it correct? Because you say so? You know I used to like you, but in this debate you have proven yourself to be just as pompous and arrogant as ChrisV.
And, I ask you once again, what is it about a convertible top that makes cars more sporty? Just answer the question!
I'm not being pompous (I am though, often arrogant). But the thing is that this is what I've heard and read from several respectable sources.
What about "respecting each others' beliefs"?
What makes it sportier? The experience. There's nothing like a convertible or open top car, not windows, nor sunroofs can make up for having the roof put behind you. Therein lies the point--it's not sportier, it's about the experience. A GT can be as sporty or sportier than a sports car, as a sedan can be sportier than a coupe. That doesn't make a GT a sports car as much as it doesn't make a sedan a coupe.
And I'm not the one that's resorted to insults, Tim.
QuoteQuoteIf, if you've got a grudge with definitions, you might want to call up Webster's and Oxford and tell them to get a fire going...they've got some burning to do.
If that's the best response you can come up with, I suppose I already won. :rolleyes:
I had a serious response earlier.
Definitions exist to give things an finite description. Saying a car is a GT and not a sports car is not an insult, it's simply calling a dog a dog and a cat a cat. A dog is not a cat, and a cat is not a dog. That doesn't mean either one isn't possibly a good and viable pet, it just means a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog.
Raza, you're living in the old days. why is a miata or mr-2 considered sports cars when 911's and other so called 'GT's' are sportier in almost every single way?
you're living in the past, raza.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIf, if you've got a grudge with definitions, you might want to call up Webster's and Oxford and tell them to get a fire going...they've got some burning to do.
If that's the best response you can come up with, I suppose I already won. :rolleyes:
I had a serious response earlier.
Definitions exist to give things an finite description. Saying a car is a GT and not a sports car is not an insult, it's simply calling a dog a dog and a cat a cat. A dog is not a cat, and a cat is not a dog. That doesn't mean either one isn't possibly a good and viable pet, it just means a cat is a cat and a dog is a dog.
But your definition, simply put, is no longer accurate. In fact, I believe you've found the only remaining source that has not updated its definition.
In short, your definition here would be the equivalent of calling a neutered dog by a different name as one that was left...intact, and criticizing anyone who dared to call them both dogs.
By delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.
You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.
The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.
I say we (you) stop arguing about it.
QuoteBy delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.
You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.
The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.
No, that's not the point of a definition. A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.
So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier? No, that doesn't make sense either. I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.
And how is trying to ask you whether your question is relevant or not an insult? I made an analogy answering your question.
QuoteI say we (you) stop arguing about it.
and i say you go away if you aren't helping us. :lol:
QuoteI say we (you) stop arguing about it.
You mean "agree to disagree"?
QuoteI say we (you) stop arguing about it.
;)
QuoteQuoteBy delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.
You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.
The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.
No, that's not the point of a definition. A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.
So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier? No, that doesn't make sense either. I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.
Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.
QuoteQuoteI say we (you) stop arguing about it.
;)
:angry:
QuoteQuoteQuoteBy delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.
You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.
The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.
No, that's not the point of a definition. A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.
So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier? No, that doesn't make sense either. I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.
Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.
It's a good rule of thumb. But in my eyes, it will never be a sports car without an open top.
By your definition, is the Veyron a sports car? The 911? If they are by you, then you go on with that. The M3 is not a sports car, the M5 isn't, the E55 is not, the C55 is not, the CLK55 is not. They're all GTs or sport sedans. It doesn't make them any less of a car, it just makes them what they are. You're all acting as if I'm using dirty words when I'm obviously not.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteBy delaying your reply to a very simple question you were insulting me, if not directly.
You are allowed your own opinions and beliefs if you don't attempt to impose them on others, that is what you have been doing this thread. I don't care what you consider to be a sports car, but don't tell me that my considerations are incorrect.
The elements that make a sports car a sports car should be ones that actually make a car more sporty, not ones that optimize the experience.
No, that's not the point of a definition. A sports car is supposed to be about the experience.
So should the Miata not be considered a sports car since the 911 is sportier? No, that doesn't make sense either. I didn't make the definition, I'm just sticking to it.
Don't tell me my definition is wrong (light weight 2 door focused on sport which both the 911 and Miata match) and I won't tell you your definition is wrong. It is that simple.
It's a good rule of thumb. But in my eyes, it will never be a sports car without an open top.
By your definition, is the Veyron a sports car? The 911? If they are by you, then you go on with that. The M3 is not a sports car, the M5 isn't, the E55 is not, the C55 is not, the CLK55 is not. They're all GTs or sport sedans. It doesn't make them any less of a car, it just makes them what they are. You're all acting as if I'm using dirty words when I'm obviously not.
You're acting as if your opinion is concrete fact when it isn't. Clearly there is a lot of personal interpretation involved in deciding what the definition of "sports car" is.
Also, I would classify the M3, M5, E55, C55, Veyron and CLK55 as GTs, the 911 being the lone exception.
QuoteQuoteI say we (you) stop arguing about it.
You mean "agree to disagree"?
Yeah pretty much. lol
why does it have to be a convertible to be a sports car? they're heavier, have a worse Cd, and not as fast or nimble as their closed top counterparts.
We all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact. That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion. We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.
QuoteWe all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact. That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion. We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.
I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.
Quotewhy does it have to be a convertible to be a sports car? they're heavier, have a worse Cd, and not as fast or nimble as their closed top counterparts.
It's not necessarily a convertible. It's an open top.
And a Corvette convertible is lighter than a Corvette coupe. They're both sports cars, however, since the coupe is a targa and an open top car. So, not all convertibles are heavier than coupe counterparts. You have a good point about coefficient of drag, but the new Mustang probably has a higher cD than the old Mustang, and which is the better car? By the way, the Mustang is a GT as well, not a sports car.
QuoteQuoteWe all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact. That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion. We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.
I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.
When did I say I was open minded? I am in several respects, true, but some things I hold to be facts. And when the best automotive source I've ever come by tells me that a sports car is a two seat, two door, rwd, open top car, I listen up. I agree that the definitions can, at times, be seemingly foolishly exclusive (though we all call chihuahuas dogs for some reason ;)) but it is the way it is.
However, 2 seats is something I'll NEVER budge on. If it's got two extra seats, it's not a sports car. That's like saying a sedan is just a coupe with two extra doors.
QuoteQuoteWe all act as if our opinion is cold, hard fact. That is, in fact, why we believe it to be so and therefore it becomes our opinion. We don't believe something because we think it to be untrue.
I am not asking you to believe that your opinion is untrue, I am asking you to respect my opinion and the opinions of others. It really shouldn't be that difficult considering how open minded you think you are.
Nicely put.
Cars with useable rear seats are definitely GTs, but cars with useless rear seats (such as the 911) are sports cars imho, unless something else such as weight prevents them from being one.
I got to agree with Raza. You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult. By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars. The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance. Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.
Here are some questions for you. How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy? I'm sure you've seen it. The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly). Do you consider that a sports car?
How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month? Is that a sports car?
The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said. It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car. It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car. Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road. It's about expierence, not performance.
That's fine, except that the definition that Raza uses has been replaced/updated everywhere but his source.
QuoteI got to agree with Raza. You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult. By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars. The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance. Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.
Here are some questions for you. How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy? I'm sure you've seen it. The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly). Do you consider that a sports car?
How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month? Is that a sports car?
The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said. It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car. It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car. Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road. It's about expierence, not performance.
Once again, I disagree. The elements that make a car a sports car should be ones that actually make it sportier, not ones that make the experience different. And, 3500 lbs is my limit for a sports car.
As far as the Ram goes, it certainly was a sports car, it was essentially a Ram body on a Viper chassis if I am remembering correctly. I have never seen the Tiburon you talk of, but my guess is that it weighs over 3500 lbs, plus it almost certainly has AWD.
blah, blah, blah...
So, you guys are telling me that the car in my sig is a GT because it has a roof? Well, that is a direct conflict with the definition of GT:
"Main Entry: gran turismo
Part of Speech: noun
Definition: a touring car
Etymology: Italian `great touring'
Usage: abbreviated [GT]"
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gran%20turismo (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=gran%20turismo)
I don't believe the Elise Exige is a touring car.
Edit- wrong address, I don't know where that one came from.
Hmmmm...
Reffer to my Oxford Dictionary quote:
"a low built fast car"
QuoteI got to agree with Raza. You guys are acting as if being a GT and not a sports car is some sort of insult. By your definition TBR, sports cars are merely the upper echelon of performance cars. The term "sportier" is thrown around to mean the same as performance. Your definition leaves a lot in the air, as you are the one who decides which cars are light enough, and which ones are "sporty" enough.
Here are some questions for you. How about the tiburon from the video that made its rounds to every car forum in the galaxy? I'm sure you've seen it. The one with two engines that runs ridiculously low quarter mile times (I forgot how much exactly). Do you consider that a sports car?
How about the Dodge Ram that almost one the 2005 Cannonball One Lap of America that was in C&D this month? Is that a sports car?
The clear cut and dry definition that has been around for quite some time has been just what Raza said. It's not a kick to the nuts of a cars pride for being a GT instead of a sports car. It doesn't make a difference whether a GT out performs a sports car. Sports cars do not have to be the best performing things on the road. It's about expierence, not performance.
How does TBR's definition leave a lot in the air? He said the car has to have two doors, RWD, be under a certain wieght limit, blah blah blah. i don't think that's leaving a lot in the air.
As for the Tib, i consider that to be a sports car. Just because it's AWD, doesn't limit it from being a sports car, also like how a roof does limit a car from being a sports car.
Also, the clear cut and dry definition is now being changed. Back then, convertibles were lighter than their coupe counterparts, so they were considered to be sports car. that way of thinking is old. Now, because of structural modifications, motors, etc, most convertibles are heavier than coupes, so i'd think coupes are more sporty. And about you're last sentence, i would think one could have about as much fun (or even more) in a coupe than a convertible. And i don't think theres a clear cut and dry definition anymore. Cars are changing. We're not in the old days anymore. There are more and more forms of sports cars, and maybe you should start accepting that.
If that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.
QuoteIf that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.
here we go again :lol:
The Tiburon isn't AWD, where'd that come from? It's an Elantra coupe with different styling.
QuoteIf that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.
why, cos it has AWD and a roof? :rolleyes:
The Tib they are talking about is a twin engine Tib with 300hp turbo engine on each ends and AWD.
It runs very low 11 second 1.4 mile times and makes the best burnouts I've ever seen.
QuoteQuoteIf that Tiburon's a sports car, then my Passat is too.
why, cos it has AWD and a roof? :rolleyes:
Yes, exactly. My car is a sedan, and it's a sedan only because it's a coupe with two extra doors.
:rolleyes:
QuoteThe Tib they are talking about is a twin engine Tib with 300hp turbo engine on each ends and AWD.
It runs very low 11 second 1.4 mile times and makes the best burnouts I've ever seen.
Is there any video available of it?
QuoteQuoteThe Tib they are talking about is a twin engine Tib with 300hp turbo engine on each ends and AWD.
It runs very low 11 second 1.4 mile times and makes the best burnouts I've ever seen.
Is there any video available of it?
i'll try to dig it up from c/d if you want.
here:
tib video (http://www.muchosucko.com/video-630horsehyundai.html)
Quotehere:
tib video (http://www.muchosucko.com/video-630horsehyundai.html)
Thanks :) That car does some amazing stuff!
QuoteQuotehere:
tib video (http://www.muchosucko.com/video-630horsehyundai.html)
Thanks :) That car does some amazing stuff!
that's why i consider it a sports car. :praise:
The Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
QuoteThe Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
we all have different definitions of a sports car. let's leave it at that.
QuoteThe Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
I thought the Unimog was this tremendous off roader truck.
(http://www.hasicibm.cz/technika/unimog.jpg)
QuoteQuoteThe Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
I thought the Unimog was this tremendous off roader truck.
It is. :)
QuoteThe Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
that's too heavy.
QuoteQuoteThe Mercedes Unimog does some crazy shit too...is that a sports car?
It's not a sports car. It's a two engined, AWD, 4 seater tin top. It's a GT.
that's too heavy.
So is the Tiburon, I bet.
My definition of sports car:
2 door, fast, handles well.
Just as loose one, can be changed. For example I'd consider modified 240SX hatchback to be a sports car, but not a R32 Golf.
Both are GTs in my book.
QuoteMy definition of sports car:
2 door, fast, handles well.
Just as loose one, can be changed. For example I'd consider modified 240SX hatchback to be a sports car, but not a R32 Golf.
so is an FWD car a sports car?
Yeah, I think everyone knows that already.
QuoteBoth are GTs in my book.
your book?
QuoteQuoteMy definition of sports car:
2 door, fast, handles well.
Just as loose one, can be changed. For example I'd consider modified 240SX hatchback to be a sports car, but not a R32 Golf.
so is an FWD car a sports car?
The horror!
I think it can be.
QuoteQuoteBoth are GTs in my book.
your book?
He's got a little blue book he writes all his secrets in.
QuoteQuoteQuoteBoth are GTs in my book.
your book?
He's got a little blue book he writes all his secrets in.
At least it's not red, like you Canadians.
;) (Kidding, of course, I love Canada)
The 240SX has four seats (right?) and a fixed roof, the R32 has four seats, a fixed roof, and AWD. Both are GTs.
And no, FWD cars cannot be sports cars. At the most, they can be considered GTs, but usually just coupes or "sporty coupes" like the Eclipse.
Reminds me, we were cruising last night along side an 06 Eclipse for a while. Pretty cool looking.
Then we got pulled over.
Wow still arguing about this?
Its not a big deal, but I am pretty close to Raza on this as mentioned before. I only mention this because I saw alot of posts saying its "Raza against the world."
I am a little more loose...I would consider the saab Sonnet a sports car, as well the TT vert. I am not hung up on F/A/RWD.
A sports car just need to be small, light, open top, 1 or 2 seats, and manual transmission.
That being said that's just for me. technically raza is right that a sports car needs to be RWD. I just make exceptions occasionally (like the ones mentioned above).
When you put a fixed roof on a sports car, it becomes a GT car.
To alot of points here there are cars that sometimes are not clear. The 911 is very close to a sports car...but frankly Porsche put those back seats there for a reason. they specifically wanted it in the GT class!
Also I still see alot of people hung up on performance. Sports car vs GT car does not imply one has better performance than another...though typically GT cars tend to be better performers than sports cars. This is specifically because a closed top lends specific performance advantages to that class. F1 (I think) is derived from sports cars, hence you still see the vestigal reminders of that class...open top, RWD, and manual (SMG) transmissions.
QuoteF1 (I think) is derived from sports cars, hence you still see the vestigal reminders of that class...open top, RWD, and manual (SMG) transmissions.
SMG makes a car a GT car, not a sports car. Raza agrees with me too.
QuoteQuoteF1 (I think) is derived from sports cars, hence you still see the vestigal reminders of that class...open top, RWD, and manual (SMG) transmissions.
SMG makes a car a GT car, not a sports car. Raza agrees with me too.
Congratulations? :P
Don't forget, not only Raza, but he also heard it from TV and ChrisV! :o
"When you put a fixed roof on a sports car, it becomes a GT car."
That doesn't make sense, GT stands for "Grand Touring" and not all "tintops" are good for touring (Ferrari F40 for example).
Quote"When you put a fixed roof on a sports car, it becomes a GT car."
That doesn't make sense, GT stands for "Grand Touring" and not all "tintops" are good for touring (Ferrari F40 for example).
And plenty of sports cars are great for "touring."
Obviously many cars today try to straddle different segments, but for me that doesn't mean you just throw out all defnitions and call any car that is fun to drive a "sports car."
I am not saying try to educate every consumer in the world, but among "educated" enthusiasts there is no reason not to use basic defintions to help ease conversation.
Its also not necessary for every car to be put into just one category.
The BMW Z8 for instance is a sports car, but could also be considered a GT car IMHO (as could the SL500 and XLR).
Like I said I am a little more "loose" than Raza, but still I have to admit his defintion is the most correct one. Its just not the most useful one for me. :praise:
You never really replied to my statement, why would a car that is clearly not meant to be a tourer be called a GT?
Oh, SJZ3, I think I'm loose enough for all of us (;)). Anyway, I'm stalwart on the RWD thing, but I do also lump the SL55 and XLR in the GT category, pretty much because of the hardtop and weight and suspensions. I'm on the cusp with the SLK, because of the weight and hard top.