Lamborghini stops Gallardo Superleggera production
March27
After unveiling its newest product, the Lamborghini announced on Thursday it stopped production of the Gallardo Superleggera, a lightweight, more performance-oriented version of the Gallardo. The Italian exotic car manufacturer shipped just 172 of the cars to the U.S. in its short life span.
The Superleggera weighed 154 lbs less than the standard Gallardo thanks to a heavy diet of carbon fiber and made 10 more horsepower, for a total of 530, from its 5.0 liter V10 engine. There are 46 orange, 45 yellow, 37 black, 34 gray and 10 white Superleggeras on U.S. soil, as per Motor Trend.
Why?
Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.
Was this initially a limited production vehicle?
I do not think this is unusual. Akin to Audi cancelling the S4 when the A4 it is based on goes out of production. I am sure there will soon be a new Superlegerra based on the new Gallardo.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 28, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
Why?
Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.
There have been GT-R's in the past. They never canceled any car production.
Quote from: Galaxy on March 28, 2008, 12:54:54 PM
I do not think this is unusual. Akin to Audi cancelling the S4 when the A4 it is based on goes out of production. I am sure there will soon be a new Superlegerra based on the new Gallardo.
The Gallardo hasn't been cancelled. This was unespected.
Quote from: HEMI666 on March 28, 2008, 01:09:12 PM
The Gallardo hasn't been cancelled. This was unespected.
The Gallardo has been replaced by the Gallardo LP 560-4. The difference may be big enough, that they are no longer able to build the Superleggera on the same line.
This is officially odd. Look for Superleggera prices to be through the roof sometime soon.
From the sound of it the new Gallardo is pretty much the Superlegerra, but with Revention like styling. I imagine a new Superlegerra will come out in a couple of years.
And why can't Lamborghini come up with normal names? Safari's spell checker is throwing up red all over this post.
Quote from: TBR on March 28, 2008, 03:41:45 PM
From the sound of it the new Gallardo is pretty much the Superlegerra, but with Revention like styling. I imagine a new Superlegerra will come out in a couple of years.
And why can't Lamborghini come up with normal names? Safari's spell checker is throwing up red all over this post.
It means "super light" which is a wrong name for the car.
154 pounds less? Gee, that sure is super light!
Not.
Quote from: giant_mtb on March 28, 2008, 03:52:58 PM
154 pounds less? Gee, that sure is super light!
Not.
154 lb is a lot of weight to lose on a car, the problem is, they did it on a car that's not exactly light to begin with. If they lost 154lb on something like a Super 7 or a Lotus 211, now that's a feat!
Quote from: Galaxy on March 28, 2008, 03:49:53 PM
It means "super light" which is a wrong name for the car.
It's also a traditional Italian moniker for the same sort of treatment that Porsche calls "club sport."
Quote from: NomisR on March 28, 2008, 05:23:27 PM
154 lb is a lot of weight to lose on a car, the problem is, they did it on a car that's not exactly light to begin with. If they lost 154lb on something like a Super 7 or a Lotus 211, now that's a feat!
I understand that. I should have included a similar explanation in my original post. Proportionately, it's not a lot of weight to lose.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 28, 2008, 05:25:18 PM
It's also a traditional Italian moniker for the same sort of treatment that Porsche calls "club sport."
Isn't it also a specific form of bodywork construction?
'In this construction, thin steel tubes are built up from the floorpan or chassies, into the shape of the finished body. Aluminium panels are then painstakingly formed by hand (rolled between shaped wheels, or beaten over a suitable wooden former) until they fit the shape. They are then welded together over the frame. Most Ferraris and Maseratis were built this way until the end of the 1950s; the Aston Martin DB4 and 5 were Superleggera cars, too.'
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 28, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
Why?
Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.
I doubt potential Gallardo buyers backed off for a 70K Nissan.
Quote from: omicron on March 28, 2008, 09:10:34 PM
Isn't it also a specific form of bodywork construction?
'In this construction, thin steel tubes are built up from the floorpan or chassies, into the shape of the finished body. Aluminium panels are then painstakingly formed by hand (rolled between shaped wheels, or beaten over a suitable wooden former) until they fit the shape. They are then welded together over the frame. Most Ferraris and Maseratis were built this way until the end of the 1950s; the Aston Martin DB4 and 5 were Superleggera cars, too.'
Traditionally, you're spot on as usual, but as of late, it has also been modified to include carbon fiber and other composite type construction.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 28, 2008, 09:40:00 PM
Traditionally, you're spot on as usual, but as of late, it has also been modified to include carbon fiber and other composite type construction.
Next they'll be telling me that sports cars have roofs!
Quote from: omicron on March 28, 2008, 09:45:56 PM
Next they'll be telling me that sports cars have roofs!
nd they'll be making Saloons and calling them Phaetons too!
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 28, 2008, 09:47:30 PM
nd they'll be making Saloons and calling them Phaetons too!
:cry:
Quote from: omicron on March 28, 2008, 09:48:31 PM
:cry:
People will own Carreras and Targas and have no idea of the origin of those names!
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 28, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
Why?
Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.
Oh, yes. That's it. People stopped buying Lamborghinis in favor of PS3 controllers on wheels.
Quote from: sandertheshark on March 28, 2008, 09:50:48 PM
Oh, yes. That's it. People stopped buying Lamborghinis in favor of PS3 controllers on wheels.
Eh, what techno performance gizmos does the GT-R have that an E-gear equipped Gallardo (like the superleggera) does not?
Launch control, check.
Automated manual, check.
Fancy computer controled AWD systems with RWD bias, check.
Fancy ESC systems, check.
Seriously everyone is crying about the techno gizmos that the GT-R supposedly depends on to be faster and thus sap the driving experience, but in reality what does the GT-R have that the others don't? The dual clutch manual was developed originally by Audi, and plently of cars have manual paddle shifters now (which don't have any benefit over dual clutch and will probably go the way of the dinosaur soon). The GT-R's AWD system isn't as "techincally" advanced as the EVO X's because it can't actually actively move power from side to side (usually that ability is reserved for the Vspec GT-Rs). It doesn't have the fancy E-diff that Ferrari's do with like 6 different settings. It doesn't have fancy ceramic brakes with automatic brake drying features. It's shocks don't have the many settings that the BMW M cars do. The GT-R's launch control is nothing new, as many many paddle shift cars have it. There are plently of cars have turbocharged engines, and the GT-R did not have electric assisted turbos like rumored. Seriously, save for the AWD, you'll find just as many techno gizmos in a Ferrari F430, or a BMW M6. A paddle shift R8 and E-gear Gallardo has nearly identical techno aid list features as the GT-R.
Fact is no one who is going to buy a Lamborghini is going to not and then buy a hideous pig like the GT-R. The Z06 was about as quick as the Ferrari 360 and no one traded the Italian in.
The GT-R is a fast car but it's not worrying Lamborghini. Be realistic.
Quote from: 565 on March 29, 2008, 06:13:31 AM
Eh, what techno performance gizmos does the GT-R have that an E-gear equipped Gallardo (like the superleggera) does not?
Launch control, check.
Automated manual, check.
Fancy computer controled AWD systems with RWD bias, check.
Fancy ESC systems, check.
Seriously everyone is crying about the techno gizmos that the GT-R supposedly depends on to be faster and thus sap the driving experience, but in reality what does the GT-R have that the others don't? The dual clutch manual was developed originally by Audi, and plently of cars have manual paddle shifters now (which don't have any benefit over dual clutch and will probably go the way of the dinosaur soon). The GT-R's AWD system isn't as "techincally" advanced as the EVO X's because it can't actually actively move power from side to side (usually that ability is reserved for the Vspec GT-Rs). It doesn't have the fancy E-diff that Ferrari's do with like 6 different settings. It doesn't have fancy ceramic brakes with automatic brake drying features. It's shocks don't have the many settings that the BMW M cars do. The GT-R's launch control is nothing new, as many many paddle shift cars have it. There are plently of cars have turbocharged engines, and the GT-R did not have electric assisted turbos like rumored. Seriously, save for the AWD, you'll find just as many techno gizmos in a Ferrari F430, or a BMW M6. A paddle shift R8 and E-gear Gallardo has nearly identical techno aid list features as the GT-R.
Actually, I have complained about the amount of electronics in those cars. I know a few others have too.
Quote from: HotRodPilot on March 29, 2008, 09:50:20 AM
Where has Brealistic gone to?
He left because of you.
Wait, didn't he leave because the forums were too nice? Oh, if he could see us now!
People didn't buy a corvette over a 360 because the chevy was a piece of shit and more importantly you would see them on the road every day piloted by feeble old men on their way to denny's.
Not really the same problem the GT-R will have.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 29, 2008, 10:10:39 AM
People didn't buy a corvette over a 360 because the chevy was a piece of shit and more importantly you would see them on the road every day piloted by feeble old men on their way to denny's.
Not really the same problem the GT-R will have.
Yeah, the Corvette is a piece of shit. :rolleyes:
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 29, 2008, 10:10:39 AM
People didn't buy a corvette over a 360 because the chevy was a piece of shit and more importantly you would see them on the road every day piloted by feeble old men on their way to denny's.
Not really the same problem the GT-R will have.
There'd still be people put off by the Nissan badge though. The GT-R is much superior to cars like the Corvette but it doesn't mean people will take it over a Gallardo.
How many GT-Rs does Nissan plan to make?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 29, 2008, 10:10:39 AM
People didn't buy a corvette over a 360 because the chevy was a piece of shit and more importantly you would see them on the road every day piloted by feeble old men on their way to denny's.
Not really the same problem the GT-R will have.
Right. People won't buy them because they're ugly and everyone who does buy them learned to drive playing Gran Turismo.
Quote from: sandertheshark on March 29, 2008, 01:15:00 PM
Right. People won't buy them because they're ugly and everyone who does buy them learned to drive playing Gran Turismo.
Yeah, because kids can afford GT-R's, right? :rolleyes:
Quote from: CALL_911 on March 29, 2008, 01:17:20 PM
Yeah, because kids can afford GT-R's, right? :rolleyes:
There are plenty guys in their twenties who can afford $70k cars.
Quote from: sandertheshark on March 29, 2008, 01:19:07 PM
There are plenty guys in their twenties who can afford $70k cars.
I could if I saved up for awhile and didn't buy stuff for my other cars.
Quote from: hotrodalex on March 29, 2008, 10:36:41 AM
Yeah, the Corvette is a piece of shit. :rolleyes:
I know! Leaf suspensions and OHV engines! Bodies made of plastic! What where they thinking?
:lol:
EVO seemed disappointed in the driving dynamics and performance of the superleggera compared to the balls to the wall versions of the competition (GT3 RS, and what's the performance F430 called, do they still use "Stradale", I can't remember?)
Quote from: Lebowski on March 29, 2008, 02:09:39 PM
EVO seemed disappointed in the driving dynamics and performance of the superleggera compared to the balls to the wall versions of the competition (GT3 RS, and what's the performance F430 called, do they still use "Stradale", I can't remember?)
Scuderia?
Anywho, Jeremy Clarkson really liked the Superleggera. It seemed like a nice car but I'd much rather have the GT3 RS.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 29, 2008, 02:12:49 PM
Scuderia?
Anywho, Jeremy Clarkson really liked the Superleggera. It seemed like a nice car but I'd much rather have the GT3 RS.
Yes, Scuderia, I knew it was an S.
Clarkson is kind of an idiot. I like watching Top Gear for the entertainment value bit in no way do I consider Clarkson an expert.
Quote from: thecarnut on March 29, 2008, 02:06:09 PM
I know! Leaf suspensions and OHV engines! Bodies made of plastic! What where they thinking?
:lol:
Yet somehow it still beats other cars around the track, no matter what the price of the other car is!
Quote from: sandertheshark on March 29, 2008, 01:19:07 PM
There are plenty guys in their twenties who can afford $70k cars.
And there are plenty of 30 and 40 year olds who have Playstations.
Quote from: the Teuton on March 28, 2008, 01:45:57 PM
This is officially odd. Look for Superleggera prices to be through the roof sometime soon.
I'm definitely holding on to mine
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 29, 2008, 04:39:53 PM
I'm definitely holding on to mine
I doubt the hot wheels version is going to go up in value. :tounge:
I talked with some of the boys in italy, they confirmed that the GT-R really messed their shit up.
Having their pride and joy(gallardo SL) outlap a GT-R by only a few tenths of a second really made them pissed off.
I said they should be happy, since so far the lambo is the only car to best the GT-R in a track test. Cars like the 911 GT3 and turbo have fallen as well as the audi's and the redneck wonder(Z06). I wouldn't be surprised if the F430 falls to the GT-R. Lambo should be proud, but i think they are going to wait until they can really throw down.
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 29, 2008, 09:46:56 PM
I talked with some of the boys in italy, they confirmed that the GT-R really messed their shit up.
Having their pride and joy(gallardo SL) outlap a GT-R by only a few tenths of a second really made them pissed off.
I said they should be happy, since so far the lambo is the only car to best the GT-R in a track test. Cars like the 911 GT3 and turbo have fallen as well as the audi's and the redneck wonder(Z06). I wouldn't be surprised if the F430 falls to the GT-R. Lambo should be proud, but i think they are going to wait until they can really throw down.
There is more to cars than #'s. Especially track #'s. I would pick any of the GT-R's competitors over it. I can't imagine anyone who has dreamt of owning a Ferrari or Porsche all their life finally reaching the point they can afford one, and saying 'ehhhh you know what the GT-R posted a better lap time so I think I'm gonna pass on that F430 Scuderia'
I would even go with cars slower than the GT-R over it... again it's very good at what it does, but it doesn't have the sound or looks of a supercar. For a track/race car hell yes I would get the GT-R in a heartbeat but I really don't see it taking away from 911/Gallardo/Z06 sales. Real life isn't Gran Turismo
Quote from: Galaxy on March 28, 2008, 01:38:04 PM
The Gallardo has been replaced by the Gallardo LP 560-4. The difference may be big enough, that they are no longer able to build the Superleggera on the same line.
What's more fun to say - Lamborghini Gallardo Superleggera, or Lamborghini Gallardo LP Cinquecentosessanta-Quattro?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 07:42:40 AM
There is more to cars than #'s. Especially track #'s. I would pick any of the GT-R's competitors over it. I can't imagine anyone who has dreamt of owning a Ferrari or Porsche all their life finally reaching the point they can afford one, and saying 'ehhhh you know what the GT-R posted a better lap time so I think I'm gonna pass on that F430 Scuderia'
I would even go with cars slower than the GT-R over it... again it's very good at what it does, but it doesn't have the sound or looks of a supercar. For a track/race car hell yes I would get the GT-R in a heartbeat but I really don't see it taking away from 911/Gallardo/Z06 sales. Real life isn't Gran Turismo
Have you heard a GT-R?
Looks are subjective.
I'm not saying you aren't somewhat right about Ferrari buyers dismissing a GT-R. But a lot of Ferrari buyers don't buy a Ferrari because it can go round a track well...
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 31, 2008, 09:50:06 AM
Have you heard a GT-R?
Looks are subjective.
I'm not saying you aren't somewhat right about Ferrari buyers dismissing a GT-R. But a lot of Ferrari buyers don't buy a Ferrari because it can go round a track well...
Well, it's about the prestige too. Does it sound better to say you have a Ferrari or a Nissan?
But if I really want a dedicated track car, a GT-R would not be my #1 choice either, it's just too expensive to crash. If I want a dedicated track car, I would probably go with a Miata. To me, the GT-R doesn't have the prestige to go with it, and it's too heavy and expensive to be a dedicated track car. It may do what it does really well, but there's other better choices out there for the money. Never really been a great fan, not really the car for me. But I would still want to drive it.
ahh prestige, they have a new isle at Walmart where they put all their prestige.
Quote from: NomisR on March 31, 2008, 11:10:57 AM
Well, it's about the prestige too. Does it sound better to say you have a Ferrari or a Nissan?
But if I really want a dedicated track car, a GT-R would not be my #1 choice either, it's just too expensive to crash. If I want a dedicated track car, I would probably go with a Miata. To me, the GT-R doesn't have the prestige to go with it, and it's too heavy and expensive to be a dedicated track car. It may do what it does really well, but there's other better choices out there for the money. Never really been a great fan, not really the car for me. But I would still want to drive it.
That's what I was getting at. Lots of people buy Gallardos so they can drive around London or Milan with the top down. At 10 mph.
If the GT-R was twice the price and had a Ferrari badge, it might be taken more seriously by a lot of people (for a change the press have it right and the reader wrong, not vice versa).
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 31, 2008, 11:28:32 AM
ahh prestige, they have a new isle at Walmart where they put all their prestige.
It's in the autoparts section. :lol:
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 31, 2008, 11:33:25 AM
That's what I was getting at. Lots of people buy Gallardos so they can drive around London or Milan with the top down. At 10 mph.
If the GT-R was twice the price and had a Ferrari badge, it might be taken more seriously by a lot of people (for a change the press have it right and the reader wrong, not vice versa).
Yeah, everytime I go to places like Beverly Hills, I see these tools in their Gallardos or F430s tooling through Rodeo drive in first gear with this look at me thing going on. And then 10 mins later, it's like, hey, there's that car again.
You tend to wonder, is that person driving through there just for people to look at them or are they actually going somewhere. It's obviously they're not looking for a parking space.
Quote from: NomisR on March 31, 2008, 11:58:30 AM
Yeah, everytime I go to places like Beverly Hills, I see these tools in their Gallardos or F430s tooling through Rodeo drive in first gear with this look at me thing going on. And then 10 mins later, it's like, hey, there's that car again.
You tend to wonder, is that person driving through there just for people to look at them or are they actually going somewhere. It's obviously they're not looking for a parking space.
Some people are douchebags the way they just drive around to be seen in their ferrari (you know who i'm talking about, when you're eating at a place in a crowded area and the same ferrari drives by 8 times).
Something funny happened a couple of weeks ago. I was out w/ a group of people, and a guy with us (who i'm not friends with and didn't know until that night) sees a ferrari go by, and starts making all these jokes about how the guy who drives it must have a small dick. At the end of the night, this guy gets in his car - an Escalade, which he had valet parked right up front. I laughed my ass off.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on March 31, 2008, 09:50:06 AM
Have you heard a GT-R?
Looks are subjective.
I'm not saying you aren't somewhat right about Ferrari buyers dismissing a GT-R. But a lot of Ferrari buyers don't buy a Ferrari because it can go round a track well...
1. I have heard a GT-R on video. In comparison to Lamborghinis and Ferraris I have heard on video it sounds like a muted G35.
2. Looks may be subjective, but honestly, I think if we took a poll most people would say a Ferrari looks better than the GT-R. The GT-R is the WRX of supercars.
3. I am in agreement that most Ferrari drivers don't buy their cars to take to the track. That is my whole point. Yes the GT-R is highly capable, a great performance value, and comfy/practical as well...
But it's not a Porsche. It's not a Ferrari. It's not a Lamborghini. Yes those cars may not be as fast on the track but who cares. They are beautiful. They make beautiful noises. They have a special kind of presence on the road. That to me is worth the premium and performance loss from a GT-R.
If I wanted the most bang for the buck performance wise I would buy something like a '91 Eclipse GSX and build that up. The GT-R is a great feat and definitely a great car, but I don't think it's "perfect", and despite it's great performance if given the choice I would still go with something slower and more expensive.
Here's the price on this one:
(http://photos-a.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v132/23/13/14228342/n14228342_34327448_8624.jpg)
(http://photos-c.ak.facebook.com/photos-ak-sf2p/v132/23/13/14228342/n14228342_34327450_9070.jpg)
They were selling it for the as-listed price (unlike your average F430), so I wonder if that will change now.
I thought Gallardos were like $150K? No way in hell I would pay that for that, I'd rather mod a stock one.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 12:31:10 PM
I thought Gallardos were like $150K? No way in hell I would pay that for that, I'd rather mod a stock one.
Well, you can probably get a one-two year old Gallardo for half the price..
Quote from: NomisR on March 31, 2008, 12:34:28 PM
Well, you can probably get a one-two year old Gallardo for half the price..
Supercars don't depriciate like Hyundais. I think 360s are still going for what they cost new.
Most expensive:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=235564848&dealer_id=100004530&car_year=2008&num_records=&model=GALLARDO&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&engine=&keywordsrep=&keywordsfyc=&certified=&fuel=&body_code=0&search_type=both&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&first_record=51&make=LAM&color=&keywords_display=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=15213&advanced=&end_year=2008&pager.offset=50&transmission=&doors=&max_price=&cardist=428
Least expensive:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?car_id=241322873&dealer_id=57970317&car_year=2005&model=GALLARDO&num_records=&systime=&make2=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&search_type=both&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&first_record=1&make=LAM&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&max_mileage=&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceASC&address=15213&advanced=&end_year=2008&pager.offset=0&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=426
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 01:54:31 PM
Supercars don't depriciate like Hyundais. I think 360s are still going for what they cost new.
Ferraris hold their value relatively well in most cases. Other supercars depreciate quite quickly depending on the whims of fashion.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 01:54:31 PM
Supercars don't depriciate like Hyundais. I think 360s are still going for what they cost new.
Ferarris are the one of the few brands that actually holds it's value or even appreciate in a short time. Everything else actually depreciates. Some more so than others.
I've seen 2 year old Gallardo going for almost half the value.. might be the maintainence that's killing the resale.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 12:24:24 PM
1. I have heard a GT-R on video. In comparison to Lamborghinis and Ferraris I have heard on video it sounds like a muted G35.
2. Looks may be subjective, but honestly, I think if we took a poll most people would say a Ferrari looks better than the GT-R. The GT-R is the WRX of supercars.
3. I am in agreement that most Ferrari drivers don't buy their cars to take to the track. That is my whole point. Yes the GT-R is highly capable, a great performance value, and comfy/practical as well...
But it's not a Porsche. It's not a Ferrari. It's not a Lamborghini. Yes those cars may not be as fast on the track but who cares. They are beautiful. They make beautiful noises. They have a special kind of presence on the road. That to me is worth the premium and performance loss from a GT-R.
If I wanted the most bang for the buck performance wise I would buy something like a '91 Eclipse GSX and build that up. The GT-R is a great feat and definitely a great car, but I don't think it's "perfect", and despite it's great performance if given the choice I would still go with something slower and more expensive.
I think the GT-R is more of a threat to Porsche than it is to the Italians.
Quote from: NomisR on March 31, 2008, 03:04:55 PM
Ferarris are the one of the few brands that actually holds it's value or even appreciate in a short time. Everything else actually depreciates. Some more so than others.
I've seen 2 year old Gallardo going for almost half the value.. might be the maintainence that's killing the resale.
Some cars hold their value.
Some don't.
Try checking out prices for a 456.
Quote from: nickdrinkwater on April 01, 2008, 01:36:00 AM
I think the GT-R is more of a threat to Porsche than it is to the Italians.
Bingo.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 31, 2008, 12:24:24 PM
But it's not a Porsche. It's not a Ferrari. It's not a Lamborghini. Yes those cars may not be as fast on the track but who cares. They are beautiful. They make beautiful noises. They have a special kind of presence on the road. That to me is worth the premium and performance loss from a GT-R.
:rolleyes: Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?
I don't know about the US market, but Porsche are at the top of the tree for sports car/GT sales in the UK market (and maybe the rest of the EU).
There will always be a portion of Porsche buyers who are concerned about image but I don't think I can believe that Porsche wouldn't be concerned about the GT-R. At the very least it's a matter of pride.
Quote from: Tave on April 01, 2008, 10:40:44 AM
Bingo.
:rolleyes: Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?
Yeah, how many Nissans are on the road?
The GT-R is as much a threat as the Evo or STI.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2008, 01:38:47 AM
Some cars hold their value.
Some don't.
Try checking out prices for a 456.
True, usually, the 2+2s depreciate really fast, but typically, the 2 seats holds it's value well.
Quote from: Tave on April 01, 2008, 10:40:44 AM
Bingo.
:rolleyes: Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?
True, Porsches definately doesn't hold the same cachet as the Italians.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=14037.msg792939#msg792939 date=1207071844
Yeah, how many Nissans are on the road?
The GT-R is as much a threat as the Evo or STI.
I guarantee Porsche management isn't being as blase about the GT-R as you.
Also, your analogy is flawed. The GT-R is much closer to a Carrera in content, price, and target market than an Evo or STi.
Quote from: Tave on April 01, 2008, 12:13:10 PM
I guarantee Porsche management isn't being as blase about the GT-R as you.
Also, your analogy is flawed. The GT-R is much closer to a Carrera in content, price, and target market than an Evo or STi.
Of course the Porsche management is taking the Nissan more seriously than I am. They're paid to.
Personally, I don't see who the target market of the GT-R is. Sure, there will some early adopters who want the latest performance car, I just don't see longevity. A lot of people who have 70 grand to spend on a car that isn't a large luxury car usually want the badge to come along with it. And Nissan's badge isn't the one they want. The old Skyline line is popular amongst people who generally can't afford it.
Quote from: Raza on April 01, 2008, 12:24:15 PM
Of course the Porsche management is taking the Nissan more seriously than I am. They're paid to.
Personally, I don't see who the target market of the GT-R is. Sure, there will some early adopters who want the latest performance car, I just don't see longevity. A lot of people who have 70 grand to spend on a car that isn't a large luxury car usually want the badge to come along with it. And Nissan's badge isn't the one they want. The old Skyline line is popular amongst people who generally can't afford it.
Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago. It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go? Again, the NSX died out..
Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.
Quote from: NomisR on April 01, 2008, 12:27:36 PM
Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago. It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go? Again, the NSX died out..
Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.
+1
Quote from: NomisR on April 01, 2008, 12:27:36 PM
Well, I think the new GTR will do the same thing to Supercars as the NSX did almost 20 years ago. It's a good thing but how high can the bar actually go? Again, the NSX died out..
Also, the GTR doesn't look as exotic as the NSX did.
You mean putter out and die unceremoniously after 15 years?
The NSX shocked supercar manufacturers into making their cars more reliable. If the GT-R shocks the supercar manufacturers into making their cars more computerized, uglier, and heavier, then I'll burn Nissan HQ to the ground.
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2008, 10:35:06 AM
If the GT-R shocks the supercar manufacturers into making their cars more computerized, uglier, and heavier, then I'll burn Nissan HQ to the ground.
It's not like this isn't already happening.
Quote from: NomisR on April 02, 2008, 11:38:34 AM
It's not like this isn't already happening.
No, It's all the GT-R's fault!
Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.
Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.
Quote from: Tave on April 02, 2008, 12:08:53 PM
No, It's all the GT-R's fault!
Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.
Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.
Do you post at Corvette and Porsche forums? :lol: ;)
Quote from: Tave on April 01, 2008, 10:40:44 AM
:rolleyes: Maybe with regards to Ferrari and Lambo, but you're kidding yourself if you think Porsche isn't nervous about the GT-R. The Carrera is positively plebian compared to it. How many 911s are on the road anyway, 50 billion?
And how many GT-R units is Nissan targeting, 3,500? Porsche sells about 100k units a year. Those 3500 units will get absorbed into the market so easily, unless Nissan plans to seriously increase production it's not going to have much if any impact on Porsche sales.
Quote from: Tave on April 02, 2008, 12:08:53 PM
No, It's all the GT-R's fault!
Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.
Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.
Why does everyone have to like this car?
I haven't seen one on the road, but from photographs I find it ugly.
It is incredibly heavy. People are going bonkers about it's performance... it's clearly underrated from the factory; I give Nissan credit for a clever marketing ploy. If it had been officially rated at the 550 or so HP it creates at the crank perhaps it wouldn't have been so impressive. Plus, of course, GM makes the same power in a motor I bet isn't much bigger or heavier (and definitely nowhere near as complex) as the VH37.
It brings no new technology to the table. All the stuff in this car works very well together, but beyond the rear mounted transaxle (which was made only to help offset the weight of the already overly heavy front end). Even the motor is simplified... VVT on the intake only, and stainless steel turbos... no variable vane technology or ceramic turbines, and they're integrated with the exhaust manifolds so upgrades will be a major investment.
So I'm sorry but while its performance and value is impressive I personally am not excited about the GT-R. Yes it is the fastest car on the road/track but I would still rather have nearly any of its competitors over it. Wake me up when someone makes a car rivaling the GT-R's performance w/unarguably beautiful styling, a simple N/A motor and RWD (with some kind of safety management of course). Let's see how the GT-R fares against the GT2 and F430 Scuderia (though it is impressive that things have to go that far).
Meh.
Wait, why are we talking about the GTR in this thread again?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on April 02, 2008, 04:30:32 PM
Why does everyone have to like this car?
Everyone doesn't. I just want to stop hearing bullshit criticism that directly contradicts every review that has been released.
Notice I haven't said a peep about the car's styling. I think it looks cool, but I respect that others don't.
QuoteI haven't seen one on the road, but from photographs I find it ugly.
It is incredibly heavy. People are going bonkers about it's performance... it's clearly underrated from the factory; I give Nissan credit for a clever marketing ploy. If it had been officially rated at the 550 or so HP it creates at the crank perhaps it wouldn't have been so impressive.
565 posted a dyno graph in one of these threads that indicates it's not as underrated as we previously thought.
QuotePlus, of course, GM makes the same power in a motor I bet isn't much bigger or heavier (and definitely nowhere near as complex) as the VH37.
It brings no new technology to the table. All the stuff in this car works very well together, but beyond the rear mounted transaxle (which was made only to help offset the weight of the already overly heavy front end). Even the motor is simplified... VVT on the intake only, and stainless steel turbos... no variable vane technology or ceramic turbines, and they're integrated with the exhaust manifolds so upgrades will be a major investment.
So I'm sorry but while its performance and value is impressive I personally am not excited about the GT-R. Yes it is the fastest car on the road/track but I would still rather have nearly any of its competitors over it. Wake me up when someone makes a car rivaling the GT-R's performance w/unarguably beautiful styling, a simple N/A motor and RWD (with some kind of safety management of course). Let's see how the GT-R fares against the GT2 and F430 Scuderia (though it is impressive that things have to go that far).
Meh.
To each their own. There's no way I'd take a 997 Turbo over it, and I've been in love with the 997 Turbo since its first review.
Quote from: Lebowski on April 02, 2008, 04:50:49 PM
Wait, why are we talking about the GTR in this thread again?
Quote from: FlatBlackCaddy on March 28, 2008, 11:20:44 AM
Why?
Was the mind blowing performance of the 70K GT-R behind this.
:lol:
Quote from: Raza on April 02, 2008, 04:52:57 PM
Yes, I understand that on page 1. But that comment was presumably a joke (if not it's an absurd comment), and there are already 300 GT-R threads.
Quote from: Tave on April 02, 2008, 12:08:53 PM
No, It's all the GT-R's fault!
Why? Because I say so. The GT-R is an over-automated piece of crap, even though every review of the car says otherwise, BECAUSE I SAY SO! I will call the GT-R a Playstation controller until everyone, including myself, actually believes the garbage spewing out of my mouth. I don't care if the GT-R offers great steering feedback, fun driving dynamics, or lightning-fast lap times; it sucks because I say so.
Why do I say so? Because I'm so much more "edgy" and "hip" than you classless morons who'd jump at the first table scrap Nissan throws on the ground.
Good post.