2006 Mercedes Benz G-Class Spy Photos
by Przemek Lis
edited 07-20-2005
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We are receiving conflicting reports from our sources regarding the new 2006 G-Class. It has been suggested that these spy photos are actually a larger version of the new M-Class dubbed the MLX and not the G-Class. If true, this would help clarify the model position of this SUV which clearly shows more resemblance to the M-Class than the G-Class. Previously we reported the MLX-Class or MLK name to be reserved for the smaller SUV Mercedes is currently developing to compete with BMW's X3. But with this new knowledge perhaps MLK (ala SLK) would be more appropriate and possibly the nomenclature strategy Mercedes is pursuing. Nevertheless, this alleged MLX will be based on the same R-Class/M-Class platform and will have 3 rows of seats, air suspension and same engines as the M-Class in addition to the new AMG 6.3 liter V8 engine with 510 hp. To be built alongside the M-Class and R-Class at the Tuscaloosa, Alabama plant, look for a Detroit debut in January and sales starting shortly after. If it is branded as a MLX then pricing could be only $5,000 to $10,000 more than the M-Class and if it's branded as a G-Class replacement expect pricing to be $15,000 to $20,000 over the M-Class.
Article On German Car Fans (http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos.cfm/spyphotoid/6050720.002)
(http://www.germancarfans.com/spyphotos/6050720.002/6050720.002.1M.jpg)
I think it wouls make a nice addition to the M-class, but I still hope they continue building an updated, but nmot completly changed G-class.
Not very striking...but that may be just because of the camo.
The R-Class already fills their premium SUV-with-space niche, they should keep the G-Class distinct.
QuoteThe R-Class already fills their premium SUV-with-space niche, they should keep the G-Class distinct.
I fully agree. The G Class has a rugged heritage that shouldnt be tampered with. The car is almost an icon unto itself.
And, more importantly, its heritage lets them sell a few hundred a year at grossly inflated prices. And MB needs that sort of profit.
QuoteAnd, more importantly, its heritage lets them sell a few hundred a year at grossly inflated prices. And MB needs that sort of profit.
Very true. Even with its inflated price, it could be the most appealing Mercedes today.
Looks too... soft. Anything with the G name should be bold IMO
I sure hope it's not snagglepuss, I like the hard edged one myself. Don't change it Benz.
It kind of reminds me of a Toyota Highlander.
Yea they should keep the G as is. And Land Rover should bring back the Defender.
I still hate SUV's by the way.
QuoteYea they should keep the G as is. And Land Rover should bring back the Defender.
I still hate SUV's by the way.
Land Rover still makes the Defender, it just isnt brought to the US.
There is no way that MB would replaced the G with this blob.
QuoteQuoteYea they should keep the G as is. And Land Rover should bring back the Defender.
I still hate SUV's by the way.
Land Rover still makes the Defender, it just isnt brought to the US.
Oh how I love the Defender....
(http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender/Defender_photos_AE1A58E8-B4FC-411C-B0B3-32077A06D495_307x924.jpg)
I have seen a red Defender here in town, next time I see him I'll ask him when it came in.
QuoteI have seen a red Defender here in town, next time I see him I'll ask him when it came in.
A guy I know in Boston imports Defenders. He has like 15.
Copley motor cars (http://www.copleymotorcars.com)
QuoteQuoteQuoteYea they should keep the G as is. And Land Rover should bring back the Defender.
I still hate SUV's by the way.
Land Rover still makes the Defender, it just isnt brought to the US.
Oh how I love the Defender....
(http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender/Defender_photos_AE1A58E8-B4FC-411C-B0B3-32077A06D495_307x924.jpg)
I also love Defenders....back when we bought the Disco, we were thinking of getting one, but they were too expensive :(
They go for a LOT of money now.
how much were they when you looked at them?
I like this one, 22k.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/7/15/185/519/1613983071.185519448.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.565x386.jpg)
Quotehow much were they when you looked at them?
Like 60K.
QuoteI like this one, 22k.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/7/15/185/519/1613983071.185519448.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.565x386.jpg)
Thats a great deal....Defenders are indestructible, basically :lol: They are truly amazing cars.
This one has custom imported seats so all your friends can come along.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/7/18/186/080/1624321596.186080560.IM1.03.565x421_A.565x407.jpg)
QuoteThis one has custom imported seats so all your friends can come along.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/7/18/186/080/1624321596.186080560.IM1.03.565x421_A.565x407.jpg)
Regular Defenders come with 4 seats also, though probably not as comfortable as those.
Here are some funny pictures I found:
(http://www.wreckedexotics.com/rover/landrover_20040427_001.jpg)
Nothing happened to the Defender.
Check out this car...this is quite the looker B)
(http://www.mulsanne.com.mx/db/fotos/tombraider03gris34.jpg)
That's a 110 isn't it?
I know the 90s have the small jumpseats, but as you stated these look like they are much more comfortable.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/5/9/182/423/1442833415.182423054.IM1.09.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
regular
QuoteThat's a 110 isn't it?
I know the 90s have the small jumpseats, but as you stated these look like they are much more comfortable.
Yea, its a 110.
Quote(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/5/9/182/423/1442833415.182423054.IM1.09.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
regular
I dont anyone would be too comfortable back there, even in the other one B)
But still, you can take the top off the soft top ones and the people in back would have a blast. :lol:
R33, get this one :lol:
(http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/landrover/image3.jpg)
Yea, without the top cruising the beach or the french quarter during Mardi Gras would be nice. I don't know of many who would want to be back there if off roading though. A good hard hit would throw them onto the hood. Well at least you could have the spare tire mounted there for them to grab hold of before going under the frontend.
QuoteR33, get this one :lol:
(http://www.army-technology.com/contractor_images/landrover/image3.jpg)
lol, me doing a ride along with Catman waiting for speeders.
the 110 Safari grade.
(http://images.autotrader.com/images/2005/7/10/183/420/1600977451.183420085.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.jpg)
Do you want to get a 110 or 90?
QuoteDo you want to get a 110 or 90?
I'd get a 90.
The body looks like something from Infiniti, and the front looks like a SportVan.
Now I want a Defender ;). Dave, what kind of power did they have?
QuoteNow I want a Defender ;). Dave, what kind of power did they have?
:lol: Defenders are very cool vehicles!
It had an OHV 4 liter V8 (the revised one in the 97 refreshening) that made 182 horsepower, and about 240 lb ft of torque.
I didn't know you could get 3 rows in one, I should have convinced my parents to get one when we bought the Durango. That would have been awesome! :lol: And, too bad about the engine, wish it had the 4.6.
QuoteI didn't know you could get 3 rows in one, I should have convinced my parents to get one when we bought the Durango. That would have been awesome! :lol: And, too bad about the engine, wish it had the 4.6.
It would have been about 4 times as expensive (at least) as the Durango.
Really? The Durango was $27,000, surely a new one didn't cost over 100k.
QuoteReally? The Durango was $27,000, surely a new one didn't cost over 100k.
You'd be suprised. When I was checking back in 2000, a relatively new 110 was up at 93K. They cost a lot less in Britain, starting at about 17K pounds. I dont know why they are so much in the US.
That is ridiculous, why buy a Defender when the G was the same price yet offered the same capability and much more luxury?
QuoteThat is ridiculous, why buy a Defender when the G was the same price yet offered the same capability and much more luxury?
That was back then...I remember when G Wagons werent being imported to the US, and it cost about 150K to buy one here.
Now it will cost you about 40K to buy one the mid 90s. Defeders are iconic vehicles, and never seem to get old, so it really doesnt matter when you buy them from.
I recall the prices being more like 115k for a two door, but it has been a while.
QuoteQuoteReally? The Durango was $27,000, surely a new one didn't cost over 100k.
You'd be suprised. When I was checking back in 2000, a relatively new 110 was up at 93K. They cost a lot less in Britain, starting at about 17K pounds. I dont know why they are so much in the US.
import and emissions maybe?
A 2003 G500 costs about the same as a '97 110, maybe a tad more.
QuoteQuoteQuoteReally? The Durango was $27,000, surely a new one didn't cost over 100k.
You'd be suprised. When I was checking back in 2000, a relatively new 110 was up at 93K. They cost a lot less in Britain, starting at about 17K pounds. I dont know why they are so much in the US.
import and emissions maybe?
Very possible. They are still rare in the US.
Here is one from Ebay going for about 24K at the moment:
(http://www.midnightracing.com/1cochranchs/ebay/104119%20(1).jpg)
QuoteA 2003 G500 costs about the same as a '97 110, maybe a tad more.
You cant compare a car that isnt imported to a car that is imported. Land Rover Defenders sell from 18K pounds in Great Britain, which is a lot less than what a G Class costs there.
Yes you can, if you're looking at a car you don't decide that you will look only at ones imported through 3rd party companies.
QuoteYes you can, if you're looking at a car you don't decide that you will look only at ones imported through 3rd party companies.
You cannot look at an extremely rare car that isnt even imported to the US and say that it is very expensive, when compared to a car that IS sold in the US. You just cannot compare them based on price. A Land Rover Defender's cost represents many added costs that the g Wagon doesnt have.
the problem with non standard imports is the investor has to have the vehicle crash tested himself. Then if there are problems with the crash test they have to reinforce things themselves and crash test again. Where are the vehicles coming from they are crash testing? They have to buy them then crash them, arrrrrgh. Then you go to emissions, I'm not 100% but I thinks it's around 4k-8k to get the emissions test done at the lab. There is also usually a 3 month waiting list to get to the emissions lab. Then if it fails you have to repeat the process and pay again. You don't have to crash them each time a new one comes in but you have to emissions test every new one.
Yes, because Land Rover chose not to import them, but MB made a smart business decision and did bring the G over. If I am looking at a car I don't care what added costs were involved, I just care about the final price.
Quotethe problem with non standard imports is the investor has to have the vehicle crash tested himself. Then if there are problems with the crash test they have to reinforce things themselves and crash test again. Where are the vehicles coming from they are crash testing? They have to buy them then crash them, arrrrrgh. Then you go to emissions, I'm not 100% but I thinks it's around 4k-8k to get the emissions test done at the lab. There is also usually a 3 month waiting list to get to the emissions lab. Then if it fails you have to repeat the process and pay again. You don't have to crash them each time a new one comes in but you have to emissions test every new one.
Exactly what I am saying...those are just some of the added fees that the Defender price represents.
QuoteYes, because Land Rover chose not to import them, but MB made a smart business decision and did bring the G over. If I am looking at a car I don't care what added costs were involved, I just care about the final price.
Lets say I wanted a Ford Mondeo, and I compared it to a Honda Accord. The Mondeo would have to be crash tested, emissions certified, and could end up being a lot more than the Accord. According to you, I have just made a fair comparison.
The fact is that most people who buy a G Class in the US would never even look at a Defender first, and wouldnt even compare them at all.
And you cannot go using price against a vehicle just because its maker decided not to import them.
QuoteQuoteYes, because Land Rover chose not to import them, but MB made a smart business decision and did bring the G over. If I am looking at a car I don't care what added costs were involved, I just care about the final price.
Lets say I wanted a Ford Mondeo, and I compared it to a Honda Accord. The Mondeo would have to be crash tested, emissions certified, and could end up being a lot more than the Accord. According to you, I have just made a fair comparison.
The fact is that most people who buy a G Class in the US would never even look at a Defender first, and wouldnt even compare them at all.
And you cannot go using price against a vehicle just because its maker decided not to import them.
what he said^
Thats one snazzy ute B)
(http://www.landrover.com/gb/en/Vehicles/Defender/Defender_photos_5EEFFABC-7FCB-467C-ABFA-0C08D1E611D4_199x599.jpg)
Of course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
If I am looking at a tough offroader that can still carry the family I have 3 options:
Hummer
Glendewagon
Defender
The Hummer is too big, while the Defender and Glendewagen are just the right size, why wouldn't I compare the two? And, this is a imported Glendewagen that looks like it will go for under $45000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-8-Brabus-...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-8-Brabus-G-wagon_W0QQitemZ4562450693QQcategoryZ31854QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
QuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Iffys joined our party, yaaaay iffy.
QuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Of course "you" can, thats your very own perogative, but it is silly to fault a vehicle for its price relative to another imported vehicle when it isnt even imported to the country.
I think both if and I understand that this isn't a level playing field, but why would it matter to the consumer?
QuoteIf I am looking at a tough offroader that can still carry the family I have 3 options:
Hummer
Glendewagon
Defender
The Hummer is too big, while the Defender and Glendewagen are just the right size, why wouldn't I compare the two? And, this is a imported Glendewagen that looks like it will go for under $45000: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-8-Brabus-...1QQcmdZViewItem (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/5-8-Brabus-G-wagon_W0QQitemZ4562450693QQcategoryZ31854QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem)
Let me break this down:
No one, or an extremely select group of people, (nowadays in the US) buys a 80K G Wagon to off road in.
The people who buy H2s are composed of a few off roaders, and a lot of people who put 22 in dubs on them.
I would say the Defender is almost in a class of its own, and it competes with the H1, which is actually used for off roading. No one buys a Defender for on road travel...they are hardcore off road vehicles, and thats what theyre for.
So then I can't compare them because of your stereotypes? I am sure that there are not only people that offroad with their G-wagons but there are likely also people who use Defenders as daily drivers.
QuoteI think both if and I understand that this isn't a level playing field, but why would it matter to the consumer?
First of all, a consumer buying a G Wagon in the US is almost never going to even look at a Defender in the guise of buying one.
I just stated why it would be silly to compare the two vehicles...and you and If understand that. But consumers will ultimately do what they want.
How do you know that Defender buyers won't cross shop the G-class and vice versa? Do you even know a Defender owner? Or, for that matter, a G-class owner? (I don't, just curious to see what your assumptions are based on)
QuoteSo then I can't compare them because of your stereotypes? I am sure that there are not only people that offroad with their G-wagons but there are likely also people who use Defenders as daily drivers.
Maybe they old G wagons, but almost no one (in the US) uses their brand new G Class for off roading. Lets be reasonable here.
On the other hand, a Defender is used for off roading. But you wont see G Wagons where defender are.
G Wagon customers want prestige and comfort...Defender customers could care for neither.
QuoteHow do you know that Defender buyers won't cross shop the G-class and vice versa? Do you even know a Defender owner? Or, for that matter, a G-class owner? (I don't, just curious to see what your assumptions are based on)
People at the LR dealership I go to own Defenders...and many times I see them come in caked with mud. I know they take them off road.
My friend in my class's dad wants to buy a G Wagon, but for the sole purpose "because its a nice ride." No mention at all of taking it off road. You have to be silly to delude yourself into thinking that a 80K G Wagon sold in the US will be used for off roading.
I have to admit, if I was shopping for luxury and offroadability there's only one, the G wagon. If I wanted a tough brute offroad not worrying about road manners or luxury, I look at the Defender and the Hummer 1. The width and engine of the H1 would turn me off and the Defender would be my choice.
Once again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Edit- guessed I missed your post or something, but one potential owner shouldn't be a basis for an assumption. I see no reason why a G500 owner wouldn't be just as likely to take their vehicle offroad as a Range Rover owner.
QuoteOnce again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Read my previous post...I addressed your "knowing any owners' question.
And Land Rover has a whole different reputation...there are Land Rover driving schools which provide RRs for off road use...dealers are always offering vacations where you get to off road in your new car.
G Wagons in the US simply do not go off road...when was the last time you saw a MB off road event?
Just because there aren't MB sponsored events doesn't mean that owners don't take them offroad, and I saw your other post and edited accordingly.
QuoteOnce again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Edit- guessed I missed your post or something, but one potential owner shouldn't be a basis for an assumption. I see no reason why a G500 owner wouldn't be just as likely to take their vehicle offroad as a Range Rover owner.
Because Land Rover has a whole different image...they promote the extreme use of their vehicles, and many people take their Range Rovers off road...I've witnessed it.
G Wagons are more of a uber SUV...very luxurious and prestigious. They cater to a whole different clientale than a Defender.
QuoteJust because there aren't MB sponsored events doesn't mean that owners don't take them offroad, and I saw your other post and edited accordingly.
All right, find me evidence that G Wagon customers take their cars off road...I can provide you with lots of evidence that RR's do in fact go off road.
QuoteQuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Of course "you" can, thats your very own perogative, but it is silly to fault a vehicle for its price relative to another imported vehicle when it isnt even imported to the country.
It's not a question of being fair to the vehicle, it's a question of choosing what's best for you. You wouldn't pay extra for an American-built car over a Mexican-built one because you feel sorry for its manufacturer's decision to pay its workers more. You pay what you pay, and that's what you look at.
The image of a brand doesn't determine whether or not people take their vehicles offroad, just because MB doesn't promote offroad use of the G-class doesn't mean people don't use them offroad.
QuoteQuoteQuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Of course "you" can, thats your very own perogative, but it is silly to fault a vehicle for its price relative to another imported vehicle when it isnt even imported to the country.
It's not a question of being fair to the vehicle, it's a question of choosing what's best for you. You wouldn't pay extra for an American-built car over a Mexican-built one because you feel sorry for its manufacturer's decision to pay its workers more. You pay what you pay, and that's what you look at.
Thats a completely different situation.
QuoteThe image of a brand doesn't determine whether or not people take their vehicles offroad, just because MB doesn't promote offroad use of the G-class doesn't mean people don't use them offroad.
So prove to me that G Wagon owners do in fact take their cars off road...instead of just making that statement.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Of course "you" can, thats your very own perogative, but it is silly to fault a vehicle for its price relative to another imported vehicle when it isnt even imported to the country.
It's not a question of being fair to the vehicle, it's a question of choosing what's best for you. You wouldn't pay extra for an American-built car over a Mexican-built one because you feel sorry for its manufacturer's decision to pay its workers more. You pay what you pay, and that's what you look at.
Thats a completely different situation.
No, it's not. It's a situation in which the product costs more because of a decision by the manufacturer. In this case, it was the decision not to officially import the vehicle, and in my example, it was the decision to pay higher wages and health benefits. Both of which change the price you pay, and that's the only price that matters.
QuoteQuoteJust because there aren't MB sponsored events doesn't mean that owners don't take them offroad, and I saw your other post and edited accordingly.
All right, find me evidence that G Wagon customers take their cars off road...I can provide you with lots of evidence that RR's do in fact go off road.
I am not finding anything, the G-class doesn't have clubs or anything like LR and the RR does. But, that isn't proof that people don't use them, in most cases G500 owners probably offroad with other clubs, likely Land Rover clubs and Hummer clubs much of the time.
QuoteOnce again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Edit- guessed I missed your post or something, but one potential owner shouldn't be a basis for an assumption. I see no reason why a G500 owner wouldn't be just as likely to take their vehicle offroad as a Range Rover owner.
Before we moved my next door neighbor had a G500 then traded it in for a G55 AMG. I asked him if he ever went offroad in it and his reply was "ARE YOU CRAZY"
I have 3 insureds with G500s currently and I know for sure 2 of them have never been offroad and I'll see the 3rd owner next week to ask him. I would be probably 100% correct in saying his answer will be no. It's not that hard to believe, how many people have trucks but never go offroad or haul anything. The G exudes an image of look at me, I'm bold, I'm loaded and I like to get head from supermodels.
QuoteQuoteReally? The Durango was $27,000, surely a new one didn't cost over 100k.
You'd be suprised. When I was checking back in 2000, a relatively new 110 was up at 93K. They cost a lot less in Britain, starting at about 17K pounds. I dont know why they are so much in the US.
Import costs. Before the G-class was imported by Mercedes, they would regulary go for 130,000.
QuoteQuoteOnce again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Edit- guessed I missed your post or something, but one potential owner shouldn't be a basis for an assumption. I see no reason why a G500 owner wouldn't be just as likely to take their vehicle offroad as a Range Rover owner.
Before we moved my next door neighbor had a G500 then traded it in for a G55 AMG. I asked him if he ever went offroad in it and his reply was "ARE YOU CRAZY"
I have 3 insureds with G500s currently and I know for sure 2 of them have never been offroad and I'll see the 3rd owner next week to ask him. I would be probably 100% correct in saying his answer will be no. It's not that hard to believe, how many people have trucks but never go offroad or haul anything. The G exudes an image of look at me, I'm bold, I'm loaded and I like to get head from supermodels.
And the Defender didn't do the same thing back in the '90s? Yes, most owners probably don't offroad their vehicles, but that doesn't mean that none of them do, nor does that mean that I can't compare the prices between the two as their capablities are similar.
QuoteQuoteQuoteOnce again, do you even know a G-class wagon owner or Defender owner? Just because the G-class wagon has a few luxury features doesn't mean people don't offroad with it, the Range Rover is more luxurious yet you claim that many owners take them offroad.
Edit- guessed I missed your post or something, but one potential owner shouldn't be a basis for an assumption. I see no reason why a G500 owner wouldn't be just as likely to take their vehicle offroad as a Range Rover owner.
Before we moved my next door neighbor had a G500 then traded it in for a G55 AMG. I asked him if he ever went offroad in it and his reply was "ARE YOU CRAZY"
I have 3 insureds with G500s currently and I know for sure 2 of them have never been offroad and I'll see the 3rd owner next week to ask him. I would be probably 100% correct in saying his answer will be no. It's not that hard to believe, how many people have trucks but never go offroad or haul anything. The G exudes an image of look at me, I'm bold, I'm loaded and I like to get head from supermodels.
And the Defender didn't do the same thing back in the '90s? Yes, most owners probably don't offroad their vehicles, but that doesn't mean that none of them do, nor does that mean that I can't compare the prices between the two as their capablities are similar.
The Defender is much more capable offroad vs the G. I would be willing to say 2 or more times capable.
2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteOf course you can. You compare the prices that you would be paying, and see which one is more.
Of course "you" can, thats your very own perogative, but it is silly to fault a vehicle for its price relative to another imported vehicle when it isnt even imported to the country.
It's not a question of being fair to the vehicle, it's a question of choosing what's best for you. You wouldn't pay extra for an American-built car over a Mexican-built one because you feel sorry for its manufacturer's decision to pay its workers more. You pay what you pay, and that's what you look at.
Thats a completely different situation.
No, it's not. It's a situation in which the product costs more because of a decision by the manufacturer. In this case, it was the decision not to officially import the vehicle, and in my example, it was the decision to pay higher wages and health benefits. Both of which change the price you pay, and that's the only price that matters.
Its not a conscious decision by the manufacturer....they want to produce cars by paying their worker more, that is fine. The sticker price will reflect that.
Not importing a vehicle is completely different. Its not the manufacturers conscious decision that they should be penalized for it. Youre example of the better conditioned factory is completely different. If Ford wants to pay its workers more, and then sell those cars in a competitive market, then they can be faulted. But Land Rover isnt even selling those cars in America, and costs taken to pass emissons cannot be used against it.
Why dont you compare a G Wagon in Britain and a Defender in Britain? In terms of price, the Defender easily has it beat. Pick a market where both are imported, and then compare them.
Quote2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
Just as scientific as people who buy the G class take it offroad.
Quote2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
It has much higher ground clearance...which equals more fording depth, higher approach and departure angles, etc.
Why does it matter to me, as a consumer, that the Defender was imported through a 3rd party and the G500 wasn't?
QuoteQuote2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
It has much higher ground clearance...which equals more fording depth, higher approach and departure angles, etc.
Links please.
QuoteQuoteQuote2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
It has much higher ground clearance...which equals more fording depth, higher approach and departure angles, etc.
Links please.
I'll find that for you tonight...I have to go to a job now :)
QuoteQuoteQuote2 times as capable? That is a real scientific number :rolleyes:. I am sure the 90 is more capable just because of its reduced size, but I doubt that is the case with the 110.
It has much higher ground clearance...which equals more fording depth, higher approach and departure angles, etc.
Links please.
The Defender 90 has the best approach, breakover and departure angle of any production vehicle made.
Link with angles. (http://www.eastcoastrover.com/INFOD90.html)
We aren't talking about the 90, we're talking about the 110.
QuoteWe aren't talking about the 90, we're talking about the 110.
Ok, go get it yourself then or wait on Dave. :lol:
I just want to clarify something, I do like the Defender very much and if I was looking for an offroad vehicle I would likely end up with a 90, BUT for a vehicle that needs to be used for things other than offroading I would choose the G500 over the 110 in a minute, in addition to having more luxury features it can likely tow pretty well, I doubt the 110 can due to its anemic engine.
QuoteI just want to clarify something, I do like the Defender very much and if I was looking for an offroad vehicle I would likely end up with a 90, BUT for a vehicle that needs to be used for things other than offroading I would choose the G500 over the 110 in a minute, in addition to having more luxury features it can likely tow pretty well, I doubt the 110 can due to its anemic engine.
Heres something just for the moment. The G Wagon is 211 mm off the ground, while the Defender is 229 mm off the ground.
Tow rating for a Defender 90 is 3,500 in high range.
QuoteQuoteI just want to clarify something, I do like the Defender very much and if I was looking for an offroad vehicle I would likely end up with a 90, BUT for a vehicle that needs to be used for things other than offroading I would choose the G500 over the 110 in a minute, in addition to having more luxury features it can likely tow pretty well, I doubt the 110 can due to its anemic engine.
Heres something just for the moment. The G Wagon is 211 mm off the ground, while the Defender is 229 mm off the ground.
Tow rating for a Defender 90 is 3,500 in high range.
3500 isn't impressive and I doubt it can tow even that very well, 180hp isn't very much.
Link (http://www.canadiandriver.com/articles/hl/02g500.htm)
G500:
Approach: 36
Departure: 27
Land Rover 110: Link (http://www.4wdonline.com/LandRover/Defender/1996.html)
Approach: 50
Departure: 35
Substantially, substantially better than the G Wagon.
Indeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
QuoteIndeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
But yet you didnt belive my statement that it had better approach and departure angles, better clearance etc until I had provided links. The Defender is indeed the far superior off roader, while the G500 is the far superior on roader. In the US, other than the fact that they are both boxes, their similarities end there.
The breakover angle is superior for the Defender as well, isn't it Dave?
QuoteIndeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
Nope, two different animals for 2 different jobs. :rockon:
QuoteThe breakover angle is superior for the Defender as well, isn't it Dave?
Yes, but let me check that up to be sure.
Link (http://www.4wdonline.com/LandRover/Defender/1996.html)
Defender: 152
I cant find a breakover angle on the internet for a GWagon just yet.
QuoteQuoteIndeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
But yet you didnt belive my statement that it had better approach and departure angles, better clearance etc until I had provided links. The Defender is indeed the far superior off roader, while the G500 is the far superior on roader. In the US, other than the fact that they are both boxes, their similarities end there.
Actually, I did, I just wanted you to have to work for it ;). And, they aren't two completely different vehicles at all. Okay, the Defender is more capable, but the G500 is still very competent offroad, probably better than anything else except for the Defender and Wrangler.
QuoteQuoteQuoteIndeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
But yet you didnt belive my statement that it had better approach and departure angles, better clearance etc until I had provided links. The Defender is indeed the far superior off roader, while the G500 is the far superior on roader. In the US, other than the fact that they are both boxes, their similarities end there.
Actually, I did, I just wanted you to have to work for it ;). And, they aren't two completely different vehicles at all. Okay, the Defender is more capable, but the G500 is still very competent offroad, probably better than anything else except for the Defender and Wrangler.
My Disco is probably just as capable...I will check up figures for that :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteIndeed, those are better. I still stand by my original statement that the G500 does indeed compete with the Defender.
But yet you didnt belive my statement that it had better approach and departure angles, better clearance etc until I had provided links. The Defender is indeed the far superior off roader, while the G500 is the far superior on roader. In the US, other than the fact that they are both boxes, their similarities end there.
Actually, I did, I just wanted you to have to work for it ;). And, they aren't two completely different vehicles at all. Okay, the Defender is more capable, but the G500 is still very competent offroad, probably better than anything else except for the Defender and Wrangler.
My Disco is probably just as capable...I will check up figures for that :lol:
LInk (http://media.ford.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=16731)
Disco II:
Approach angle is 31
Departure angle is 25
Almost as good :lol:
So my statement stands, besides there is more too a good offroader than approach and departure angles.
QuoteSo my statement stands, besides there is more too a good offroader than approach and departure angles.
Your statement that there are no better off roaders than a Defender and a Wrangler and a G500 may stand, but its not what the argument was about. ;)
QuoteSo my statement stands, besides there is more too a good offroader than approach and departure angles.
Really, how much off roading have you done personally. How many times have you needed to be pulled from a hole. Do you even know anyone that goes offroad besides me. :lol:
The Rubicon is much more capable offroad than the G as well. The shorter wheelbases on them smokes the G. Now lets cross traverse a hill and see what flips over first, the Defender will be upright for another 2 degrees after the Benz starts rolling down the hill. The motor may be paultry to you as well TBR but it doesn't matter because of the gearing. It's damn near perfect.
QuoteThe Ribicon is much more capable offroad than the G as well. The shorter wheelbases on them smokes the G. Now lets cross traverse a hill and see what flips over first, the Defender will be upright for another 2 degrees after the Benz starts rolling down the hill. The motor may be paultry to you as well TBR but it doesn't matter because of the gearing. It's damn near perfect.
I just said that both the Wrangler and Defender are better offroad, try reading before you post.
QuoteQuoteThe Ribicon is much more capable offroad than the G as well. The shorter wheelbases on them smokes the G. Now lets cross traverse a hill and see what flips over first, the Defender will be upright for another 2 degrees after the Benz starts rolling down the hill. The motor may be paultry to you as well TBR but it doesn't matter because of the gearing. It's damn near perfect.
I just said that both the Wrangler and Defender are better offroad, try reading before you post.
I did, read what you posted. :lol:
QuoteQuoteQuoteThe Ribicon is much more capable offroad than the G as well. The shorter wheelbases on them smokes the G. Now lets cross traverse a hill and see what flips over first, the Defender will be upright for another 2 degrees after the Benz starts rolling down the hill. The motor may be paultry to you as well TBR but it doesn't matter because of the gearing. It's damn near perfect.
I just said that both the Wrangler and Defender are better offroad, try reading before you post.
I did, read what you posted. :lol:
Apparantly not very carefully. ;)
"probably better than anything else
except for the Defender and Wrangler."
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThe Ribicon is much more capable offroad than the G as well.? The shorter wheelbases on them smokes the G.? Now lets cross traverse a hill and see what flips over first, the Defender will be upright for another 2 degrees after the Benz starts rolling down the hill.? The motor may be paultry to you as well TBR but it doesn't matter because of the gearing.? It's damn near perfect.
I just said that both the Wrangler and Defender are better offroad, try reading before you post.
I did, read what you posted. :lol:
Apparantly not very carefully. ;)
"probably better than anything else except for the Defender and Wrangler."
You need to underline that next time I completely missed it. :P
Thanks for the help with my seemingly pointless seriously confused car search.
How big are the back seats in the M5? Big enough for three kids, 12,5,4?
Definitely, my parents pack my brother and I (17 and 15) into the back seat of a small midsizer, I think your kids can deal with the M5. Besides, you go through cars pretty quick anyway so when your kids start getting cramped you can just move up to something bigger.
QuoteDefinitely, my parents pack my brother and I (17 and 15) into the back seat of a small midsizer, I think your kids can deal with the M5. Besides, you go through cars pretty quick anyway so when your kids start getting cramped you can just move up to something bigger.
There's not enough M5s for sale for me to establish what's a good deal and what isn't. I think the one they have seems to be a good deal though.