Poll
Hyundai Elantra?
Ban him.
Burn Him!!!
For a track car, I prefer to be scared out of my wits and be able to tame the beast than having some electronic nannies do it for me. I want to be able to run fast because of me and not because of the computers on my car.
I surmise however in the ZR1 that you can turn the electronic safety nets off.
And if you can truly test the limits of the ACR with a measure of safety, judging by virtually every single comparo/road test I've ever read, you're in that 0.000001%.
(just kidding)
When I hear 'Viper' in an automotive context I think of one of two sets of things: the first set contains poorly produced special effects commercials for car alarms in the early 90s, and teh second set includes the following: a pickup truck motor, dangerously hot door sills, ugly wheels, racing stripes, and the dude in my old neighborhood who bought a Viper, but still lives in his mom's house (true story)...
So of the two it would have to be the ZR-1, though the first course of action would be to change the whole car's appearance to that of the Z06...
Though like someone else said, for the money I'd much rather do the 996 GT3. Actually realistically I'd probably do a 996 C4S as that would make more sense for a daily driver. To truly enjoy a car on the level of the ACR/Z06/GT2 you need the money to be able to take it to a track, have a REAL daily driver, etc.
"i could totally drive an ACR in a snowstorm" Give me a hit of whatever you're smoking.
The early test mules ran truck engines.
And then, they put the now no-longer-a-truck-engine into a truck, further complicating the matter...
It's well known that any design shared with a truck engine will make the car 64.2% worse.
Trucky water jackets and oil passages decrease handling and throttle response.
It does.
(and I was talking of the SRT-10 Ram anyways...)
:orly:
(http://www.autobytel.com/images/Features/03-Dodge-Ram-SRT-10-1.jpg)
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images/7170-2005-Dodge-RAM%20SRT10.jpg)
Please don't tell me that you honestly think it would be drivable in the winter with simply a good set of snow tires. :confused: Doesn't the Viper not have TC?!
I thought the Ram SRT-10 and the Viper shared the engine?
Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.
You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.
Probably.
With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.
I can start out in fifth on my puny little four banger Honda with its earth shattering 130ish pounding little feet, I doubt doing a similar stunt on the Viper would be much of a problem.
The Viper has 0.50:1 6th gear and a 3.07:1 axle, which equates to about 1,000 RPM at 50 mph (I challenge anyone to find any car with a taller top gear final drive ratio). Not without frying the clutch would you get that thing to start.
You underestimate the amount of abuse a typical clutch can take.
It would definently be possible except when the snow gets more than 3" deep and the car begins to lift off the road.
Anytime one gets burnt smell or slippage one is frying the clutch, and with that much power, that tall of a final drive ratio and that much weight, yeah, you'll get that on the first attempt I'd bet.
What, you think you do that with the throttle pinned? No, it's done just off idle. Unfortunately, I don't have an ACR Viper sitting around to prove it to you, but try the same thing on nearly any car made today, and if you take any time to take care with what you're doing, you can do the same thing, without drama.
GoCougs, if you think that you would burn out the clutch on a Viper doing that on 1 attempt, then all I can say is, you're wrong. Clutched are pretty damn tough these days, and a high performance clutch like the one in the Viper is gonna take a bigger shit kicking then you or I could ever throw at it.
"Just off idle" (~1,000 RPM) in Viper speak is about 55 mph in 6th gear.
"Idle" (~ 750 RPM) in Viper speak is about 40 mph in 6th gear.
That is some seriously, seriously, seriously tall gearing (just about the tallest there is in a production car as best I can tell), so I'd think again if you believe that the clutch won't take a beating in trying to start it in 6th - at best you'll have to slip the clutch until the car reaches 40 mph!
But...the modern clutches! They can take abuse! I mean...it won't mess it up if you slip it until you hit 40 MPH?!?!?!?!?! :confused:
:lol:
I'd get 8" rims with 225 snow tires.
close enough... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=BFGoodrich&model=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=17R7ATAKO&tirePageLocQty=%26partnum%3D17R7ATAKO
I'd size them down as much as practical- as far as 205 on 7 inch rims.
Does the Vette only have 7 inch rims? I'm trying to fathom downsizing a tire from a 345 to a 205 on the same wheel...
I don't feel lijke arguing with you about this, but lets think for a second what's happening hear- it's not about peak torque or HP or any of the bullshit you keep coming up with- and what a dyno sheeet shows a motor as producing at 1000 RPM and wide open throttle has nothing to do with the power it produces at 1000 RPM and 5% throttle.
What it is about is about friction between the clutch plate and the friction plate- which doesn't even care what gear the transmission is in- it is concerned with the speed differential between the two. Starting out in first gear- that differential is about 100 RPM- the rear wheels aren't moving, but the engine is, and by the time the clutch is fully engaged that reduces to zero. The same exact thing happens in sixth- the only difference is that it takes a little longer to reach that full engagement- perhaps as long as 60 seconds instead of 1 or 2- but its nothing the clutch eveen balks at doing. Unless you're willing to say that a Viper clutch can't handle 60 starts from 0 in first before it burns out. To be sure, you do heat things up a little more- but nowhere near as much as a single slip-clutch drag racing start in first, or in an autocross course lasting no more than 60 seconds.
Obviously, when I say change the rim size, I mean the exact same thing as changing the motherfuckling wheels.
Have you ever actually seen someone run a Vette in the winter?
Yes.
Yes. Of course, 95% of the tme in the winter, the roads are clear of snow in most places, so that's no surprise at all. By that same token, I've seen Harley riders and Lotus 7s in the winter too.
I did drive my old Nova through one winter- 400 HP, 2800 RPM stall converter and all, and that was on a chassis that would make even a C3 Vette's underpinnings look space-aged. It wouldn't call it an ideal situation, but it was and can be done; and in all honesty, I'd rather do that again than try the same thing in the bone-stock 2WD Ranger that replaced it. And can't imagine a Viper being any worse than either of them; at least it has a stick and a decent front/rear weight bias.
Actually, I'm not arguing, and I never once mentioned neither peak torque nor peak HP in regards to this issue.
I have conclusively shown that you'd have to slip the clutch until the car reaches about 40 mph. That's not good for a clutch, even if done at it no throttle (I think this stunt would require more throttle, worsening wear and tear).
The car will have to get pretty close to 40 mph before the clutch can be fully engaged - until then it's slip-arony. Exactly how much wear and tear this creates versus other uses and abuses, I'm not sure - but it's most certainly a lot more than an "average" start in first (as if there's such a thing with a car like this).
To do the same thing on my car, I have to slip the clutch to about 30 MPH. Is it probably wearing it more than usual? Most likely. Is it any more extreme than a dragstrip launch? Not at all, and probably less.
Does my car show any signs of premature wear? Well, I replaced the clutch at 110,000 miles, after several autocross and slalom competitions, general spiritted driving quite a bit of the time and a few trips to the dragstrip- as well as doing the aforementioned a few times just to prove it to skeptics. It's interesting to note that the flywheel wasn't blued, and there was still quite a bit of material left on the friction disc- it was one of the diaphragm springs that had broken off that necissitated the replacement.
It takes only the slightest touch on the throttle.
Needless to say, this is a car that doesn't weigh much less than a Viper, and whose clutch is far less beefy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc
I noticed the Viper's shifter moving under accel/decel... looks like it's harnessing a ton of power
It's probably direct mounted to the transmission to simplify the linkage- so when the engine twists on its mount, everything else does too.
What kind of mounting is done normally to keep it from twisting?
When I test drove a Solstice, I noticed that the shifter moved/vibrated under load (not as bad as that Viper though) I really like it, made me feel like the power was flowing through my arm (or something like that... I'm not a good writer..)
My car does that too, just not nearly as much.
I voted for the ZR-1, but I'd rather have this than either:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Draginline_waiting.jpg)
I was just reading about that actually. Nissan was considering finding a way to damp that out a bit, but they decided not to, since they thought it would contribute to the feel of the car.
Yeah they said they could fix it but it would give the gearbox a rubbery feel. I actually kinda like it, it cool to be able to feel the engine rev through your hand.
I'd guess so too. I know in the RX8 you can actually unbolt the shifted and pour the tranny oil through the opening to do an oil change... when I put my short shifter on i looked down and was like "wow, look at the pretty gears!"
Yeah. Stiffer shifter bushings, and engine and tranny mounts will cause the shifter to move like that more too.
When I dropped in my short throw shifter and swapped out the linkage bushings, I get that movement a lot more now too.
Question: Pick one.
Option 1: 
Option 2: 
Title: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:48:20 PM
This is probably the final battle between the Vette and Viper before the Viper is killed off.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:48:38 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:48:38 PM
I stated in the ZR1 thread that I could say I want a Corvette more then a Viper...but the Viper ACR is just so incredibly badass and te window in the ZR1's hood is so tacky, I just can't say that anymore. The ZR1 came close, but not close enough.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 10:49:37 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 10:49:37 PM
Viper, because deep down in my psyche, I just want to scare the crap out of small children and old ladies.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:52:13 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 21, 2008, 10:52:13 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 10:49:37 PM:rockon:
Viper, because deep down in my psyche, I just want to scare the crap out of small children and old ladies.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 68_427 on August 21, 2008, 10:53:34 PM
Post by: 68_427 on August 21, 2008, 10:53:34 PM
I guess I'll be the first to say I'd take the ZR1. It's just as fast but more livable everyday.
EDIT: Plus I am totally biased towards the Corvette. :huh:
EDIT: Plus I am totally biased towards the Corvette. :huh:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: CJ on August 21, 2008, 11:00:43 PM
Post by: CJ on August 21, 2008, 11:00:43 PM
Where's the 'neither' option?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 11:03:47 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 11:03:47 PM
Quote from: CJ on August 21, 2008, 11:00:43 PM
Where's the 'neither' option?
Hyundai Elantra?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 68_427 on August 21, 2008, 11:04:47 PM
Post by: 68_427 on August 21, 2008, 11:04:47 PM
There is no point of a "neither" option, if you don't want either then don't vote. :huh:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 21, 2008, 11:05:56 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 21, 2008, 11:05:56 PM
Quote from: CJ on August 21, 2008, 11:00:43 PM
Where's the 'neither' option?
Ban him.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 11:06:25 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 11:06:25 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 21, 2008, 11:05:56 PM
Ban him.
Burn Him!!!
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 21, 2008, 11:08:09 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 21, 2008, 11:08:09 PM
Don't let the ugly chrome wheels or hood keep you from appreciating the ZR-1.
They could easily be changed to something more tasteful.
They could easily be changed to something more tasteful.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 565 on August 21, 2008, 11:39:03 PM
Post by: 565 on August 21, 2008, 11:39:03 PM
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 21, 2008, 11:48:23 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 21, 2008, 11:48:23 PM
The ACR is beyond 99.999999% of the drivers on the road including yours truly, and though the ZR1 is not far beyond, it at least has a bevy of electronic nannies to reign it in somewhat. And yes, despite pushrods, leaf springs, dorky body kit and see-through hood, and tacky chrome wheels, I'll go with the ZR1 as it is somewhat more useable in the hands of the non-professional.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: giant_mtb on August 22, 2008, 02:01:37 AM
Post by: giant_mtb on August 22, 2008, 02:01:37 AM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 21, 2008, 10:49:37 PM:hesaid:
Viper, because deep down in my psyche, I just want to scare the crap out of small children and old ladies.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: NomisR on August 22, 2008, 12:03:00 PM
Post by: NomisR on August 22, 2008, 12:03:00 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 21, 2008, 11:48:23 PM
The ACR is beyond 99.999999% of the drivers on the road including yours truly, and though the ZR1 is not far beyond, it at least has a bevy of electronic nannies to reign it in somewhat. And yes, despite pushrods, leaf springs, dorky body kit and see-through hood, and tacky chrome wheels, I'll go with the ZR1 as it is somewhat more useable in the hands of the non-professional.
For a track car, I prefer to be scared out of my wits and be able to tame the beast than having some electronic nannies do it for me. I want to be able to run fast because of me and not because of the computers on my car.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 22, 2008, 12:55:56 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 22, 2008, 12:55:56 PM
Quote from: NomisR on August 22, 2008, 12:03:00 PM
For a track car, I prefer to be scared out of my wits and be able to tame the beast than having some electronic nannies do it for me. I want to be able to run fast because of me and not because of the computers on my car.
I surmise however in the ZR1 that you can turn the electronic safety nets off.
And if you can truly test the limits of the ACR with a measure of safety, judging by virtually every single comparo/road test I've ever read, you're in that 0.000001%.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Lebowski on August 22, 2008, 01:20:43 PM
Post by: Lebowski on August 22, 2008, 01:20:43 PM
I guess the ZR-1, but honestly I wouldn't consider buying either of these cars, even if I had the money.
Obviously I like Corvettes, but I wouldn't want anything beyond the Z06 as far as performance, and IMO the body kit and clear hood panel on the ZR-1 look like total shit. I imagine you can get those wheels w/o the chrome (like on other corvettes, the same wheel design is available in silver, polished, chrome, and competition gray). I like the ZR-1 wheel design, but hate the chrome.
I wouldn't buy any Viper, too many magazine articles complain about how terrible it is as a regular driver, and in particular the heat complaint is something I could never get past given I live in FL and sweat like a pig.
I would rather have a GT3 over either of these cars. Or, just a Corvette Coupe w/ the Z51 package and save the difference, given I don't get many opportunities to really stretch my cars legs as it is.
Obviously I like Corvettes, but I wouldn't want anything beyond the Z06 as far as performance, and IMO the body kit and clear hood panel on the ZR-1 look like total shit. I imagine you can get those wheels w/o the chrome (like on other corvettes, the same wheel design is available in silver, polished, chrome, and competition gray). I like the ZR-1 wheel design, but hate the chrome.
I wouldn't buy any Viper, too many magazine articles complain about how terrible it is as a regular driver, and in particular the heat complaint is something I could never get past given I live in FL and sweat like a pig.
I would rather have a GT3 over either of these cars. Or, just a Corvette Coupe w/ the Z51 package and save the difference, given I don't get many opportunities to really stretch my cars legs as it is.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: CJ on August 22, 2008, 03:18:37 PM
Post by: CJ on August 22, 2008, 03:18:37 PM
I'd buy one of these:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Ferrari_575M_Maranello.jpg/800px-Ferrari_575M_Maranello.jpg)
http://www.auction123.com/showroom/boardwalk_ferrari_maserati/2004/Ferrari/575M/Maranello/ZFFBV55A840134903.html?showroom_dealer=7847&wait=false
That's the car I would take. With dealer 'market adjustment,' the cars will be a LOT more.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/fd/Ferrari_575M_Maranello.jpg/800px-Ferrari_575M_Maranello.jpg)
http://www.auction123.com/showroom/boardwalk_ferrari_maserati/2004/Ferrari/575M/Maranello/ZFFBV55A840134903.html?showroom_dealer=7847&wait=false
That's the car I would take. With dealer 'market adjustment,' the cars will be a LOT more.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: giant_mtb on August 22, 2008, 11:19:39 PM
Post by: giant_mtb on August 22, 2008, 11:19:39 PM
For some reason I think both the ZR1 and the ACR would demolish that car on a track. I dunno what that reason is, and it's just a thought, but I think maybe I might almost be correct in that assumption. :huh:
:lol:
:lol:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Raza on August 23, 2008, 10:07:44 AM
Post by: Raza on August 23, 2008, 10:07:44 AM
If you're not going to have an undecided option, can you at least allow people to view the results before voting?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: TBR on August 23, 2008, 12:04:56 PM
Post by: TBR on August 23, 2008, 12:04:56 PM
As a daily driver, the ZR1. But, for a track car, the ACR. And, let's face it, if you are looking at either one of these you probably already have an execurocket of some sort, so I am voting for the ACR.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: JYODER240 on August 23, 2008, 12:11:47 PM
Post by: JYODER240 on August 23, 2008, 12:11:47 PM
The ACR I guess, but if it was up to me I would spend the money on a GT3.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: sportyaccordy on August 23, 2008, 08:12:18 PM
Post by: sportyaccordy on August 23, 2008, 08:12:18 PM
Quote from: Raza on August 23, 2008, 10:07:44 AMCoward
If you're not going to have an undecided option, can you at least allow people to view the results before voting?
(just kidding)
When I hear 'Viper' in an automotive context I think of one of two sets of things: the first set contains poorly produced special effects commercials for car alarms in the early 90s, and teh second set includes the following: a pickup truck motor, dangerously hot door sills, ugly wheels, racing stripes, and the dude in my old neighborhood who bought a Viper, but still lives in his mom's house (true story)...
So of the two it would have to be the ZR-1, though the first course of action would be to change the whole car's appearance to that of the Z06...
Though like someone else said, for the money I'd much rather do the 996 GT3. Actually realistically I'd probably do a 996 C4S as that would make more sense for a daily driver. To truly enjoy a car on the level of the ACR/Z06/GT2 you need the money to be able to take it to a track, have a REAL daily driver, etc.
"i could totally drive an ACR in a snowstorm" Give me a hit of whatever you're smoking.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 08:39:43 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 08:39:43 PM
Well, with a decent set of snow tires...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 08:48:59 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 08:48:59 PM
Quote from: sportyaccordy on August 23, 2008, 08:12:18 PMYou don't know a thing about the Viper engine do you?
...includes the following: a pickup truck motor,
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 09:50:44 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 09:50:44 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 08:48:59 PM
You don't know a thing about the Viper engine do you?
The early test mules ran truck engines.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:17:58 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:17:58 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 09:50:44 PMTest mules. Not the actual production car. The production engine shared the block design with the Ram's engine, but that's it. Not even the same block and head material. The new engine shares absolutely nothing with the original truck engine.
The early test mules ran truck engines.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 10:25:19 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 10:25:19 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 10:17:58 PM
Test mules. Not the actual production car. The production engine shared the block design with the Ram's engine, but that's it. Not even the same block and head material. The new engine shares absolutely nothing with the original truck engine.
And then, they put the now no-longer-a-truck-engine into a truck, further complicating the matter...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:38:34 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:38:34 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 10:17:58 PM
Test mules. Not the actual production car. The production engine shared the block design with the Ram's engine, but that's it. Not even the same block and head material. The new engine shares absolutely nothing with the original truck engine.
It's well known that any design shared with a truck engine will make the car 64.2% worse.
Trucky water jackets and oil passages decrease handling and throttle response.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 10:25:19 PMNo they didn't. The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design. That was it. Nothing else. How hard is this to understand? That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.
And then, they put the now no-longer-a-truck-engine into a truck, further complicating the matter...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:40:14 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 23, 2008, 10:40:14 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:38:34 PM:rolleyes:
It's well known that any design shared with a truck engine will make the car 64.2% worse.
Trucky water jackets and oil passages decrease handling and throttle response.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 10:41:09 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 10:41:09 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
No they didn't. The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design. That was it. Nothing else. How hard is this to understand? That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.
It does.
(and I was talking of the SRT-10 Ram anyways...)
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:41:36 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 23, 2008, 10:41:36 PM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
No they didn't. The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design. That was it. Nothing else. How hard is this to understand? That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.
:orly:
(http://www.autobytel.com/images/Features/03-Dodge-Ram-SRT-10-1.jpg)
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images/7170-2005-Dodge-RAM%20SRT10.jpg)
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 23, 2008, 10:51:59 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 23, 2008, 10:51:59 PM
Uh, the top-end 6.2L used in GM trucks and SUVs and the and Vette/Camaro 6.2L are petty darn close in design.
The differences between the first-gen Viper V10 and Magnum V10 (trucks) was a heck of a lot more, but there was a fair bit of commonality - enough to call that first-gen Viper V10 a "truck engine"? Meh - sure, but it's a stretch. But since the Magnum V10 is long gone, and the new 600hp Viper V10 is a completely different animal in every regard, it doesn't apply to the current gen.
The differences between the first-gen Viper V10 and Magnum V10 (trucks) was a heck of a lot more, but there was a fair bit of commonality - enough to call that first-gen Viper V10 a "truck engine"? Meh - sure, but it's a stretch. But since the Magnum V10 is long gone, and the new 600hp Viper V10 is a completely different animal in every regard, it doesn't apply to the current gen.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: giant_mtb on August 24, 2008, 01:25:21 AM
Post by: giant_mtb on August 24, 2008, 01:25:21 AM
Who cares if it's a "truck engine"? That engine powers one of the fastest, most known supercars in the world. Apparently that "truck engine" does something right. :huh:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: giant_mtb on August 24, 2008, 01:27:30 AM
Post by: giant_mtb on August 24, 2008, 01:27:30 AM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 23, 2008, 08:39:43 PM
Well, with a decent set of snow tires...
Please don't tell me that you honestly think it would be drivable in the winter with simply a good set of snow tires. :confused: Doesn't the Viper not have TC?!
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT_Power on August 24, 2008, 05:59:33 AM
Post by: SVT_Power on August 24, 2008, 05:59:33 AM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 23, 2008, 10:39:51 PM
No they didn't. The Ram V10 and the Viper V10 only shared block design. That was it. Nothing else. How hard is this to understand? That's like saying the Vette has a truck engine.
I thought the Ram SRT-10 and the Viper shared the engine?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 08:01:38 AM
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 08:01:38 AM
Quote from: M_power on August 24, 2008, 05:59:33 AMI wasn't thinking of the SRT-10 version. I was thinking of the standard Ram with the V10. But in case anyone is a little confused, the Viper engine was put into a Ram SRT-10, not the other way around.
I thought the Ram SRT-10 and the Viper shared the engine?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: TBR on August 24, 2008, 09:49:41 AM
Post by: TBR on August 24, 2008, 09:49:41 AM
Which is exactly what soup said...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: CALL_911 on August 24, 2008, 12:27:12 PM
Post by: CALL_911 on August 24, 2008, 12:27:12 PM
Gimme the ACR.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 03:48:35 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 03:48:35 PM
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 24, 2008, 01:27:30 AM
Please don't tell me that you honestly think it would be drivable in the winter with simply a good set of snow tires. :confused: Doesn't the Viper not have TC?!
Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: r0tor on August 24, 2008, 05:17:26 PM
Post by: r0tor on August 24, 2008, 05:17:26 PM
ACR because it has a roll cage so they will actually allow you to go on the track with it...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 24, 2008, 06:43:07 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 24, 2008, 06:43:07 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 03:48:35 PM
Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.
You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 06:52:51 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 06:52:51 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 24, 2008, 06:43:07 PM
You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.
Probably.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:01:40 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:01:40 PM
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on August 24, 2008, 06:43:07 PM
You could just start out in 6th gear and never shift it.
With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 07:07:04 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 07:07:04 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:01:40 PMI've heard that it's possible in the new 600 hp version.
With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:14:31 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:14:31 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:01:40 PM
With 0.50:1 6th gear, I'm going to bet probably not; at best it'll take clutch-destroying slip that would negate the ability to modulate power.
I can start out in fifth on my puny little four banger Honda with its earth shattering 130ish pounding little feet, I doubt doing a similar stunt on the Viper would be much of a problem.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:26:25 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:26:25 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:14:31 PM
I can start out in fifth on my puny little four banger Honda with its earth shattering 130ish pounding little feet, I doubt doing a similar stunt on the Viper would be much of a problem.
The Viper has 0.50:1 6th gear and a 3.07:1 axle, which equates to about 1,000 RPM at 50 mph (I challenge anyone to find any car with a taller top gear final drive ratio). Not without frying the clutch would you get that thing to start.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:44:47 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:44:47 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 07:26:25 PM
The Viper has 0.50:1 6th gear and a 3.07:1 axle, which equates to about 1,000 RPM at 50 mph (I challenge anyone to find any car with a taller top gear final drive ratio). Not without frying the clutch would you get that thing to start.
You underestimate the amount of abuse a typical clutch can take.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: JYODER240 on August 24, 2008, 09:57:37 PM
Post by: JYODER240 on August 24, 2008, 09:57:37 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 03:48:35 PM
Yeah, I do. TC is a waste of time in snow anyways. In fact, I'd bet it would be drivable in all but the worst conditions on a set of all seasons.
It would definently be possible except when the snow gets more than 3" deep and the car begins to lift off the road.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 10:20:16 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 10:20:16 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 07:44:47 PM
You underestimate the amount of abuse a typical clutch can take.
Anytime one gets burnt smell or slippage one is frying the clutch, and with that much power, that tall of a final drive ratio and that much weight, yeah, you'll get that on the first attempt I'd bet.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 10:40:07 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 10:40:07 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2008, 10:20:16 PM
Anytime one gets burnt smell or slippage one is frying the clutch, and with that much power, that tall of a final drive ratio and that much weight, yeah, you'll get that on the first attempt I'd bet.
What, you think you do that with the throttle pinned? No, it's done just off idle. Unfortunately, I don't have an ACR Viper sitting around to prove it to you, but try the same thing on nearly any car made today, and if you take any time to take care with what you're doing, you can do the same thing, without drama.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 24, 2008, 11:10:49 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 24, 2008, 10:40:07 PMI just did it in 5th gear my SVT Focus. I stuck it in 5th gear (I have 6 gears, but it's a 4 banger with little torque) and I feathered the gas while slowly and gradually letting the clutch out. It took a while to get moving but I did it. There was no clutch smell and the engine was never over 1000 rpm until I let it all the way out.
What, you think you do that with the throttle pinned? No, it's done just off idle. Unfortunately, I don't have an ACR Viper sitting around to prove it to you, but try the same thing on nearly any car made today, and if you take any time to take care with what you're doing, you can do the same thing, without drama.
GoCougs, if you think that you would burn out the clutch on a Viper doing that on 1 attempt, then all I can say is, you're wrong. Clutched are pretty damn tough these days, and a high performance clutch like the one in the Viper is gonna take a bigger shit kicking then you or I could ever throw at it.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: JYODER240 on August 24, 2008, 11:16:58 PM
Post by: JYODER240 on August 24, 2008, 11:16:58 PM
I've started out in 5th in a LS2 GTO before. Apparantly it's possibly in a 350Z as well because someone at work thought they were in reverse but were it 6th and somehow drove it off a cement pad. I don't know how you mess that up but they did.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: sportyaccordy on August 25, 2008, 06:19:51 AM
Post by: sportyaccordy on August 25, 2008, 06:19:51 AM
I have started out my Maxima in 3rd gear in traffic (broken tranny locked me out of 1st & 2nd)
I imagine with 3x the torque you could get the Viper rolling in the 6th no problem.
I imagine with 3x the torque you could get the Viper rolling in the 6th no problem.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 07:29:53 AM
Post by: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 07:29:53 AM
Hello - 0.50:1 top gear, 3.07:1 rear axle and a 345/35-19 drive tire???
I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.
I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 25, 2008, 08:06:07 AM
Post by: SVT666 on August 25, 2008, 08:06:07 AM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 07:29:53 AMMaybe, if you had it redlined while slipping the clutch, but that's not how you would do it. Most (85% I believe) of the Viper's 600 ft-lbs of torque is available just off idle.
Hello - 0.50:1 top gear, 3.07:1 rear axle and a 345/35-19 drive tire???
I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 10:06:39 AM
Post by: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 10:06:39 AM
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 25, 2008, 08:06:07 AM
Maybe, if you had it redlined while slipping the clutch, but that's not how you would do it. Most (85% I believe) of the Viper's 600 ft-lbs of torque is available just off idle.
"Just off idle" (~1,000 RPM) in Viper speak is about 55 mph in 6th gear.
"Idle" (~ 750 RPM) in Viper speak is about 40 mph in 6th gear.
That is some seriously, seriously, seriously tall gearing (just about the tallest there is in a production car as best I can tell), so I'd think again if you believe that the clutch won't take a beating in trying to start it in 6th - at best you'll have to slip the clutch until the car reaches 40 mph!
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Cookie Monster on August 25, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
Post by: Cookie Monster on August 25, 2008, 12:37:42 PM
GT3 for me please. The ZR1 looks pretty dumb and I hear the ACR fries your legs as you get out.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: giant_mtb on August 25, 2008, 04:15:57 PM
Post by: giant_mtb on August 25, 2008, 04:15:57 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 10:06:39 AM
"Just off idle" (~1,000 RPM) in Viper speak is about 55 mph in 6th gear.
"Idle" (~ 750 RPM) in Viper speak is about 40 mph in 6th gear.
That is some seriously, seriously, seriously tall gearing (just about the tallest there is in a production car as best I can tell), so I'd think again if you believe that the clutch won't take a beating in trying to start it in 6th - at best you'll have to slip the clutch until the car reaches 40 mph!
But...the modern clutches! They can take abuse! I mean...it won't mess it up if you slip it until you hit 40 MPH?!?!?!?!?! :confused:
:lol:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
Post by: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
Can someone find me 345 snow tires?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 09:48:25 PM
Post by: 280Z Turbo on August 25, 2008, 09:48:25 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
Can someone find me 345 snow tires?
I'd get 8" rims with 225 snow tires.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Laconian on August 25, 2008, 11:29:38 PM
Post by: Laconian on August 25, 2008, 11:29:38 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PMCheck Zamboni's website.
Can someone find me 345 snow tires?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: r0tor on August 26, 2008, 07:15:20 AM
Post by: r0tor on August 26, 2008, 07:15:20 AM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
Can someone find me 345 snow tires?
close enough... http://www.tirerack.com/tires/Spec.jsp?make=BFGoodrich&model=All-Terrain+T%2FA+KO&vehicleSearch=true&fromCompare1=yes&partnum=17R7ATAKO&tirePageLocQty=%26partnum%3D17R7ATAKO
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Raza on August 26, 2008, 01:49:29 PM
Post by: Raza on August 26, 2008, 01:49:29 PM
I voted ZR1. Sure, the car doesn't have the panache of the original, but it has the name. And after driving the Z06 (in GT5 Prologue... :lol: ), I'm pretty sure that the ZR1 will be plenty of fun.
I'd rather have a base Corvette still, though.
I'd rather have a base Corvette still, though.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:05:48 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:05:48 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 25, 2008, 06:22:19 PM
Can someone find me 345 snow tires?
I'd size them down as much as practical- as far as 205 on 7 inch rims.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:12:19 PM
Post by: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:12:19 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:05:48 PM
I'd size them down as much as practical- as far as 205 on 7 inch rims.
Does the Vette only have 7 inch rims? I'm trying to fathom downsizing a tire from a 345 to a 205 on the same wheel...
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 25, 2008, 07:29:53 AM
Hello - 0.50:1 top gear, 3.07:1 rear axle and a 345/35-19 drive tire???
I could destroy a Viper clutch in minutes if I had the mind to.
I don't feel lijke arguing with you about this, but lets think for a second what's happening hear- it's not about peak torque or HP or any of the bullshit you keep coming up with- and what a dyno sheeet shows a motor as producing at 1000 RPM and wide open throttle has nothing to do with the power it produces at 1000 RPM and 5% throttle.
What it is about is about friction between the clutch plate and the friction plate- which doesn't even care what gear the transmission is in- it is concerned with the speed differential between the two. Starting out in first gear- that differential is about 100 RPM- the rear wheels aren't moving, but the engine is, and by the time the clutch is fully engaged that reduces to zero. The same exact thing happens in sixth- the only difference is that it takes a little longer to reach that full engagement- perhaps as long as 60 seconds instead of 1 or 2- but its nothing the clutch eveen balks at doing. Unless you're willing to say that a Viper clutch can't handle 60 starts from 0 in first before it burns out. To be sure, you do heat things up a little more- but nowhere near as much as a single slip-clutch drag racing start in first, or in an autocross course lasting no more than 60 seconds.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:18:30 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:18:30 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:12:19 PM
Does the Vette only have 7 inch rims? I'm trying to fathom downsizing a tire from a 345 to a 205 on the same wheel...
Obviously, when I say change the rim size, I mean the exact same thing as changing the motherfuckling wheels.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:31:50 PM
Post by: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:31:50 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:18:30 PM
Obviously, when I say change the rim size, I mean the exact same thing as changing the motherfuckling wheels.
Have you ever actually seen someone run a Vette in the winter?
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Raza on August 27, 2008, 03:34:42 PM
Post by: Raza on August 27, 2008, 03:34:42 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:31:50 PM
Have you ever actually seen someone run a Vette in the winter?
Yes.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:40:54 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:40:54 PM
Quote from: the Teuton on August 27, 2008, 03:31:50 PM
Have you ever actually seen someone run a Vette in the winter?
Yes. Of course, 95% of the tme in the winter, the roads are clear of snow in most places, so that's no surprise at all. By that same token, I've seen Harley riders and Lotus 7s in the winter too.
I did drive my old Nova through one winter- 400 HP, 2800 RPM stall converter and all, and that was on a chassis that would make even a C3 Vette's underpinnings look space-aged. It wouldn't call it an ideal situation, but it was and can be done; and in all honesty, I'd rather do that again than try the same thing in the bone-stock 2WD Ranger that replaced it. And can't imagine a Viper being any worse than either of them; at least it has a stick and a decent front/rear weight bias.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Cookie Monster on August 27, 2008, 03:49:12 PM
Post by: Cookie Monster on August 27, 2008, 03:49:12 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:18:30 PM:clap:
Obviously, when I say change the rim size, I mean the exact same thing as changing the motherfuckling wheels.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: GoCougs on August 27, 2008, 05:30:29 PM
Post by: GoCougs on August 27, 2008, 05:30:29 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 03:17:31 PM
I don't feel lijke arguing with you about this, but lets think for a second what's happening hear- it's not about peak torque or HP or any of the bullshit you keep coming up with- and what a dyno sheeet shows a motor as producing at 1000 RPM and wide open throttle has nothing to do with the power it produces at 1000 RPM and 5% throttle.
Actually, I'm not arguing, and I never once mentioned neither peak torque nor peak HP in regards to this issue.
I have conclusively shown that you'd have to slip the clutch until the car reaches about 40 mph. That's not good for a clutch, even if done at it no throttle (I think this stunt would require more throttle, worsening wear and tear).
Quote
What it is about is about friction between the clutch plate and the friction plate- which doesn't even care what gear the transmission is in- it is concerned with the speed differential between the two. Starting out in first gear- that differential is about 100 RPM- the rear wheels aren't moving, but the engine is, and by the time the clutch is fully engaged that reduces to zero. The same exact thing happens in sixth- the only difference is that it takes a little longer to reach that full engagement- perhaps as long as 60 seconds instead of 1 or 2- but its nothing the clutch eveen balks at doing. Unless you're willing to say that a Viper clutch can't handle 60 starts from 0 in first before it burns out. To be sure, you do heat things up a little more- but nowhere near as much as a single slip-clutch drag racing start in first, or in an autocross course lasting no more than 60 seconds.
The car will have to get pretty close to 40 mph before the clutch can be fully engaged - until then it's slip-arony. Exactly how much wear and tear this creates versus other uses and abuses, I'm not sure - but it's most certainly a lot more than an "average" start in first (as if there's such a thing with a car like this).
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 27, 2008, 05:37:53 PM
Quote from: GoCougs on August 27, 2008, 05:30:29 PM
Actually, I'm not arguing, and I never once mentioned neither peak torque nor peak HP in regards to this issue.
I have conclusively shown that you'd have to slip the clutch until the car reaches about 40 mph. That's not good for a clutch, even if done at it no throttle (I think this stunt would require more throttle, worsening wear and tear).
The car will have to get pretty close to 40 mph before the clutch can be fully engaged - until then it's slip-arony. Exactly how much wear and tear this creates versus other uses and abuses, I'm not sure - but it's most certainly a lot more than an "average" start in first (as if there's such a thing with a car like this).
To do the same thing on my car, I have to slip the clutch to about 30 MPH. Is it probably wearing it more than usual? Most likely. Is it any more extreme than a dragstrip launch? Not at all, and probably less.
Does my car show any signs of premature wear? Well, I replaced the clutch at 110,000 miles, after several autocross and slalom competitions, general spiritted driving quite a bit of the time and a few trips to the dragstrip- as well as doing the aforementioned a few times just to prove it to skeptics. It's interesting to note that the flywheel wasn't blued, and there was still quite a bit of material left on the friction disc- it was one of the diaphragm springs that had broken off that necissitated the replacement.
It takes only the slightest touch on the throttle.
Needless to say, this is a car that doesn't weigh much less than a Viper, and whose clutch is far less beefy.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Onslaught on August 27, 2008, 10:13:55 PM
Post by: Onslaught on August 27, 2008, 10:13:55 PM
ZR1 even if I think it's a little ugly compared to the Z06 or normal C6. I've never liked the Viper.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: r0tor on August 29, 2008, 08:04:34 AM
Post by: r0tor on August 29, 2008, 08:04:34 AM
ACR is officially the badest of the badasses at the 'Ring :clap:
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: 68_427 on August 29, 2008, 08:15:16 PM
Post by: 68_427 on August 29, 2008, 08:15:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Rich on August 29, 2008, 08:46:10 PM
Post by: Rich on August 29, 2008, 08:46:10 PM
Quote from: 68_427 on August 29, 2008, 08:15:16 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08nxInpgTGc
I noticed the Viper's shifter moving under accel/decel... looks like it's harnessing a ton of power
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
Post by: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
Quote from: HotRodPilot on August 29, 2008, 08:46:10 PM
I noticed the Viper's shifter moving under accel/decel... looks like it's harnessing a ton of power
It's probably direct mounted to the transmission to simplify the linkage- so when the engine twists on its mount, everything else does too.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Rich on August 29, 2008, 10:08:10 PM
Post by: Rich on August 29, 2008, 10:08:10 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
It's probably direct mounted to the transmission to simplify the linkage- so when the engine twists on its mount, everything else does too.
What kind of mounting is done normally to keep it from twisting?
When I test drove a Solstice, I noticed that the shifter moved/vibrated under load (not as bad as that Viper though) I really like it, made me feel like the power was flowing through my arm (or something like that... I'm not a good writer..)
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Laconian on August 29, 2008, 11:08:10 PM
Post by: Laconian on August 29, 2008, 11:08:10 PM
My car does that too, because the transmission is located inside the center tunnel. It's fun to jab the throttle to make it jig.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: JYODER240 on August 30, 2008, 10:38:28 AM
Post by: JYODER240 on August 30, 2008, 10:38:28 AM
Quote from: HotRodPilot on August 29, 2008, 08:46:10 PM
I noticed the Viper's shifter moving under accel/decel... looks like it's harnessing a ton of power
My car does that too, just not nearly as much.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Tave on August 30, 2008, 02:50:19 PM
Post by: Tave on August 30, 2008, 02:50:19 PM
I voted for the ZR-1, but I'd rather have this than either:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Draginline_waiting.jpg)
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on August 31, 2008, 09:03:32 PM
Post by: SVT666 on August 31, 2008, 09:03:32 PM
Quote from: Tave on August 30, 2008, 02:50:19 PM:rockon:
I voted for the ZR-1, but I'd rather have this than either:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/15/Draginline_waiting.jpg)
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: sandertheshark on August 31, 2008, 11:38:09 PM
Post by: sandertheshark on August 31, 2008, 11:38:09 PM
As a track toy, Viper, every single time.
As a car to live with, Vette, every single time.
As a car to live with, Vette, every single time.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: Raza on September 04, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Post by: Raza on September 04, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Quote from: JYODER240 on August 30, 2008, 10:38:28 AM
My car does that too, just not nearly as much.
I was just reading about that actually. Nissan was considering finding a way to damp that out a bit, but they decided not to, since they thought it would contribute to the feel of the car.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: JYODER240 on September 04, 2008, 09:36:54 PM
Post by: JYODER240 on September 04, 2008, 09:36:54 PM
Quote from: Raza link=topic=15585.msg873247#msg873247 date=1220568253
I was just reading about that actually. Nissan was considering finding a way to damp that out a bit, but they decided not to, since they thought it would contribute to the feel of the car.
Yeah they said they could fix it but it would give the gearbox a rubbery feel. I actually kinda like it, it cool to be able to feel the engine rev through your hand.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: r0tor on September 05, 2008, 07:37:14 AM
Post by: r0tor on September 05, 2008, 07:37:14 AM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
It's probably direct mounted to the transmission to simplify the linkage- so when the engine twists on its mount, everything else does too.
I'd guess so too. I know in the RX8 you can actually unbolt the shifted and pour the tranny oil through the opening to do an oil change... when I put my short shifter on i looked down and was like "wow, look at the pretty gears!"
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: sportyaccordy on September 08, 2008, 02:43:09 PM
Post by: sportyaccordy on September 08, 2008, 02:43:09 PM
My Hondas don't have any vibration through the shifter. They also have some of the best shifters in the business.
My Maximas did. They felt cheap, and had really awful shift feel.
My Maximas did. They felt cheap, and had really awful shift feel.
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: SVT666 on September 08, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Post by: SVT666 on September 08, 2008, 03:11:43 PM
Quote from: r0tor on September 05, 2008, 07:37:14 AMThe shifter in my Mustang would move every time I got on the gas. I thought it was kinda cool.
I'd guess so too. I know in the RX8 you can actually unbolt the shifted and pour the tranny oil through the opening to do an oil change... when I put my short shifter on i looked down and was like "wow, look at the pretty gears!"
Title: Re: ZR1 vs. Viper ACR
Post by: MrH on September 08, 2008, 06:12:58 PM
Post by: MrH on September 08, 2008, 06:12:58 PM
Quote from: Soup DeVille on August 29, 2008, 08:47:59 PM
It's probably direct mounted to the transmission to simplify the linkage- so when the engine twists on its mount, everything else does too.
Yeah. Stiffer shifter bushings, and engine and tranny mounts will cause the shifter to move like that more too.
When I dropped in my short throw shifter and swapped out the linkage bushings, I get that movement a lot more now too.