What's New: Porsche Confirms Panamera
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Early this morning at a board meeting in Stuttgart, Porsche AG confirmed that it will build a fourth model line, to be called Panamera. The Panamera will be a "sport-coupe in the premium class with four seats and four doors", according to a brief notice.
Earlier this year TCC showed you the Panamera that will show up at the Frankfurt auto show as a concept car. The production vehicle is expected for the 2008 calendar year.
The Panamera will be built at the Leipzig factory alongside the Cayenne, and sources are estimating an annual production of nearly 20,000 units. The sleek rear-wheel-drive four-seater will be powered by Porsche's 4.5-liter V-8 - either the 340-horsepower version, or the optional 450-horsepower turbocharged engine. A hot 500-horsepower version may eventually follow. The new chassis may be shared with Volkswagen in an arrangement similar to the one that spawned the Cayenne.
That VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
Making it lighter would go a long way.
QuoteMaking it lighter would go a long way.
It still has to be a sporty setup. Making it lighter isnt the end all. And its a Porsche, so it has to be extremely sporty, not just sporty.
I don't think they'll have a problem. The Touareg is another premium VW with serious weight problems, and it came out handling very well as a Porsche.
QuoteI don't think they'll have a problem. The Touareg is another premium VW with serious weight problems, and it came out handling very well as a Porsche.
I sure hope so. :)
QuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
QuoteQuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
Pretty sporty just doesnt cut it in a Porsche ;)
Panoramic? B)
Porsche sometimes manages to always work wonders.
QuoteQuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
Both the Continental GT and Phaeton weigh well over 5,000 and the A8 is sporty for a large luxury sedan, that isn't good enough for a Porsche.
Porsche will make it a hit I'm sure.
QuoteQuoteQuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon?? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
Both the Continental GT and Phaeton weigh well over 5,000 and the A8 is sporty for a large luxury sedan, that isn't good enough for a Porsche.
I was not suggesting Porsche use that chassis, only that it is possible to make an "unsporty" car chassis "sporty" in another car.
And even though the GT weighs alot, most reviews said it drives very well and is in fact sporty, though not in the same way as a Miata.
If weight was a limiting in making a sporty driving car than the M5 and probably some Lamborghina's would also not be considered sporty.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon?? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
Both the Continental GT and Phaeton weigh well over 5,000 and the A8 is sporty for a large luxury sedan, that isn't good enough for a Porsche.
I was not suggesting Porsche use that chassis, only that it is possible to make an "unsporty" car chassis "sporty" in another car.
And even though the GT weighs alot, most reviews said it drives very well and is in fact sporty, though not in the same way as a Miata.
If weight was a limiting in making a sporty driving car than the M5 and probably some Lamborghina's would also not be considered sporty.
The M5 barely weighs 4K pounds, while the GT weighs well over 5K pounds. And I believe reviewers said that you dont feel like you are pushing that much weight around, and it feels nice, but you need more than just that to make a true Porsche.
Dave, you are being pretty selective in your responses I think.
Are you saying the Bentley GT is not a car that drives sporty? Or just isn't as sporty as a Porsche 911?
Also, the A8 4.2 is marginally heavier than the M5 (couple hundred pounds I would estimate...haven't seen exact weight for the new M5), despite sharing a chassis with the Phaeton. I am not suggesting that the A8 is as sporty as an M5, just that weight is not the end-all be-all of sporty driving when it comes to GT's and sports sedan. After all many people are now ranking the M45 as the "top" sports sedan and it also weighs a bit over 4k lbs.
But again I am not suggesting that Porsche use that chassis, mere stating that its possible to take a chassis from a seemingly "unsporty" car and make it sporty. For all we know they may be developing the chassis for a new generation of Audi's that would also be suitable for Porsche.
QuoteDave, you are being pretty selective in your responses I think.
Are you saying the Bentley GT is not a car that drives sporty? Or just isn't as sporty as a Porsche 911?
Also, the A8 4.2 is marginally heavier than the M5 (couple hundred pounds I would estimate...haven't seen exact weight for the new M5), despite sharing a chassis with the Phaeton. I am not suggesting that the A8 is as sporty as an M5, just that weight is not the end-all be-all of sporty driving when it comes to GT's and sports sedan. After all many people are now ranking the M45 as the "top" sports sedan and it also weighs a bit over 4k lbs.
But again I am not suggesting that Porsche use that chassis, mere stating that its possible to take a chassis from a seemingly "unsporty" car and make it sporty. For all we know they may be developing the chassis for a new generation of Audi's that would also be suitable for Porsche.
Who's ranking the M45 the "top sports sedan"? Does that mean the best sports sedan for the money, or something like that?
And I have never driven a GT, so I cant say if its sporty or not ;) It may very well be called 'sporty', but I think thats taking into account its weight. Its 'sporty' for a 5,500 pound car.
A porsche on the other hand cannot make such excuses...it has the sportiest car in its segment, no matter the weight. Giving a Porsche sedan the amount of sportiness in an A8 just wont cut it for a porsche.
C'mon Dave, I don't think I can be any more clear.
Maybe I will try to link the logic for you in some very simple questions that you can answer.
Is there an engineering impossiblity that precludes the A8 chassis from being tuned to be just as sporty as the M5?
I would answer no to that question, how would you answer?
Is the M5 "sporty" enough to be a "Porsche" sedan?
I would answer yes to that question, how would you answer?
QuoteA porsche on the other hand cannot make such excuses...it has the sportiest car in its segment, no matter the weight.
Hi Dave,
Do you feel the Porsche 911 is the sportiest car in its segment (coupes)?
Do you feel the Boxster is the sportiest car in its segment (convertibles)?
Do you feel the Cayenne is the sportiest car in its segment (SUV's)?
QuoteC'mon Dave, I don't think I can be any more clear.
Maybe I will try to link the logic for you in some very simple questions that you can answer.
Is there an engineering impossiblity that precludes the A8 chassis from being tuned to be just as sporty as the M5?
I would answer no to that question, how would you answer?
Is the M5 "sporty" enough to be a "Porsche" sedan?
I would answer yes to that question, how would you answer?
QuoteIs there an engineering impossiblity that precludes the A8 chassis from being tuned to be just as sporty as the M5?
No, certainly not, but VW hasnt produced a Porsche caliber car yet. And the platform is for very large cars, and it would not do well for a Porsche to be overweight, and there is no overcoming the laws of physics. Those are my worries about using the Phaeton platform.
QuoteIs the M5 "sporty" enough to be a "Porsche" sedan?
Certainly it is sporty enough. But it weighs a whole hell of a lot less than the Phaeton, and even the A8. You certainly cannot have a Porsche sedan weighing in at almost 4500, or more pounds. 4,000 should be the very limit.
One could argue that the Cayenne was Porsche-caliber for an SUV.
QuoteOne could argue that the Cayenne was Porsche-caliber for an SUV.
Its different when you are dealing with a whole different bodystyle...SUV vs Sedan...the Porsche of SUVs is the Cayenne, and its the best in its segment in terms of sportiness, speed, etc. Its the best handling SUV,as befits a Porsche.
But once you are in the sedan arena already, there is no excuse for saying "its a large sedan, therefore it can be heavy" . Jaguar made a XJ, so I expect Porsche to at least rival it in weight.
If the Touareg could make a good Porsche, so could the A8. There's no reason they couldn't get the weight down.
QuoteIf the Touareg could make a good Porsche, so could the A8. There's no reason they couldn't get the weight down.
I'm not saying there isnt...I am just worried, and I sure hope they make this a true Porsche.
QuoteQuoteQuoteQuoteThat VW chasis sharing scares me a bit...what are they going to do, share it with a Phaethon? There is only so much they can do to make that chasis sporty.
The A8 shares the chassis with the Phaeton, and its pretty sporty.
I think the Bently GT also uses the chassis.
Both the Continental GT and Phaeton weigh well over 5,000 and the A8 is sporty for a large luxury sedan, that isn't good enough for a Porsche.
I was not suggesting Porsche use that chassis, only that it is possible to make an "unsporty" car chassis "sporty" in another car.
And even though the GT weighs alot, most reviews said it drives very well and is in fact sporty, though not in the same way as a Miata.
If weight was a limiting in making a sporty driving car than the M5 and probably some Lamborghina's would also not be considered sporty.
As far as handling goes, it will get left behind by the Aston DB9, the Mercedes CL, the Ferrari 612, et al. That said, it's the worst handling car in its class.*
*That's because it weighs two and a half bloody tons.
All of you lack some serious reading comprehension that I was taught in school. Read the last sentence. Read it a few times. Let it sink in.
It said nothing about using the Phaeton or A8 chassis. It said it may share it's new chassis with Volkswagon. Why the hell is everyone assuming it's going to be heavy as all hell? Because Volkswagon may get their hands on it, and use it in one of their new cars? It's a brand new chassis being developed by Porsche. It's not going to be heavy for its class.
Either you guys are assuming anything VW touches turns to lead, or it's going to be riding on the same platform as the Phaeton and A8. Either way, you still suck at reading .
First of all, "may". Secondly, it was vaguely-worded enough to imply that "new" meant "new for this car", not that the platform was being developed by a combined effort by VW and Porsche specifically for a Porsche.