To preface, I've been having some rust issues with my car. Noticed some blisters in the rear fender paint this summer and they have since popped and the paint is starting to just fall off the fender (plus some spots around the 3rd brake light). At the moment I've got a bare/rusty spot a bit larger than a quarter on the fender and it's growing fast. Needless to say, I'm not very happy. Poking around the web, this apparently has been an issue on a number of early 3s, mostly in northern climates (most complaints are on Canadian forums, haven't found any for US owners yet). It was also an issue with some Proteges in the early '00s.
So anyway, I decided to start searching some of the brands/models I'm interested in as replacements to see if there's any history of rust issues. While checking up on Hyundai complaints, since the Genesis coupe is a potential next-buy, I came across this gem:
QuoteThen, about a month ago, my tire pressure light came on and the pressue in all 4 tires were low so I took it back in. THey didnt find any nails and simply told me that the weather is getting colder. The one guy even asked if I had anyone that would want to sabotage my car! So, they fill the tires, the lights out and I'm okay. About a week ago, the light is back on so I call. He states they recd about 20 calls regarding that and its' the cold weather. I understand the whole thing with tire air and the cold weather but if cold weather is going to make that light come on every time, I dont want that car. That car has caused me nothing but GRIEF since I've had. I'm trying to work out the lemon law but I'm all around it, not on it.
WTF? There's nothing wrong with your car, this is a natural phenomena. Colder temperatures make your tire pressures drop, dropped pressure triggers your TPS. Any car you buy with TPS will do the same damn thing. This is right up there with people who bought Hummers and then complained about poor fuel mileage. Dealing with people like this day in and day out would literally drive me bonkers.
Aye, there is no shortage of this sort of thing.
He wants to lemon law a car because of that? What a whiner. He must be looking for a reason to ditch the car, if something that small ruins his whole perception of it.
Nice rant; r0tor would be proud.
Have solace that that person is laughed at by the whole of the system s/he is fighting; LOL - especially pursuing a lemon law case.
The government says every car has to have TPMS now. Just think of all the idiots out there who will be taking their new cars into the dealerships now because of low tire pressure.
Quote from: Speed_Racer on February 15, 2009, 02:13:31 PM
He wants to lemon law a car because of that? What a whiner. He must be looking for a reason to ditch the car, if something that small ruins his whole perception of it.
That was an excerpt, not the full complaint. The first part of the complaint was that the car apparently had a faulty brake booster and master cylinder that required replacement when the car was only a few months old and it took two trips to the dealer to diagnose and fix (didn't find anything the first time, found and fixed the second time). However, this also wouldn't qualify for Lemon law status.
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2009, 02:20:46 PM
That was an excerpt, not the full complaint. The first part of the complaint was that the car apparently had a faulty brake booster and master cylinder that required replacement when the car was only a few months old and it took two trips to the dealer to diagnose and fix (didn't find anything the first time, found and fixed the second time). However, this also wouldn't qualify for Lemon law status.
See, that's another thing that bugs me. I am very reluctant to just replace things based on the fact that the customer is complaining about something. Yet if I don't throw a part at the problem they piss and moan about it. I've been bit often enough to know better, so I deal with the complaining.
And it's not very easy to get it right 100% of the time.
I've been to the repair shop twice for at least half of my repairs.
The only time I was totally impressed was when I took my then 15-yrold 1983 Honda to a small "import" garage and described the sound it was making.
Guy at the counter says, "Water pump."
Me: You sure?
Guy: Yup.
Me: can you come out and listen to it?
We go outside, turn it on-
Guy: Totally sure it's the waterpump.
For about $150 they put a new one on and the sound went away..
Well most of the time I can figure it out the first time. But a "no trouble found" diagnosis is what it is. I am not going to guess.
Some people. :rolleyes:
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2009, 02:20:46 PM
That was an excerpt, not the full complaint. The first part of the complaint was that the car apparently had a faulty brake booster and master cylinder that required replacement when the car was only a few months old and it took two trips to the dealer to diagnose and fix (didn't find anything the first time, found and fixed the second time). However, this also wouldn't qualify for Lemon law status.
That's not really that big of a deal, it seems that most new cars have a couple of problems in the first 10,000 miles or so.
Certainly not lemon law worthy, that's for sure.
The moral of the story- never underestimate the number of idiots in the world.
Quote from: NACar on February 15, 2009, 02:17:59 PM
The government says every car has to have TPMS now. Just think of all the idiots out there who will be taking their new cars into the dealerships now because of low tire pressure.
They do?
Shit.
Quote from: NACar on February 15, 2009, 03:26:04 PM
What shit?
Shit. Now its going to be more expensive to replace wheels and tires, and shit, another worthless electronanny to further weigh down the car and increase its price.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 15, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Shit. Now its going to be more expensive to replace wheels and tires, and shit, another worthless electronanny to further weigh down the car and increase its price.
Depends on how the TPS is implemented. Some use sensors in the wheels, others use the ABS speed sensors.
Quote from: TBR on February 15, 2009, 03:02:43 PM
That's not really that big of a deal, it seems that most new cars have a couple of problems in the first 10,000 miles or so.
Certainly not lemon law worthy, that's for sure.
The moral of the story- never underestimate the number of idiots in the world.
What's the population of the world? 6 billion? Then there are 5,999,999,999 idiots in the world. :lol:
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 15, 2009, 03:27:52 PM
Shit. Now its going to be more expensive to replace wheels and tires, and shit, another worthless electronanny to further weigh down the car and increase its price.
Yeah, it's dumb. The up side is that people will probably put the right amount of air in their tires, which is safer and more efficient.
Quote from: Psilos on February 15, 2009, 03:31:34 PM
Yeah, it's dumb. The up side is that people will probably put the right amount of air in their tires, which is safer and more efficient.
That's true, I suppose; but people should be routinely checking that anyways; and tire pressure monitors can't tell you how much tread you have left or whether or not the tire has been damaged.
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2009, 03:29:05 PM
Depends on how the TPS is implemented. Some use sensors in the wheels, others use the ABS speed sensors.
So, with that speed sensor based system: what happens if I want to change my tire size?
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 15, 2009, 03:40:17 PM
So, with that speed sensor based system: what happens if I want to change my tire size?
I think the speed sensor system only picks up if one wheel is spinning differently from the others. If such is the case, changing tire sizes shouldn't matter so long as they're all the same size. Though it begs the question of whether it warns you if all tires are low on pressure (like in the winter when temperatures drop and tire pressures can drop near 30%).
Quote from: Psilos on February 15, 2009, 03:30:28 PM
What's the population of the world? 6 billion? Then there are 5,999,999,999 idiots in the world. :lol:
Have a little self confidence, you're not an idiot either. That makes it 5,999,999,998.
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2009, 03:29:05 PM
Depends on how the TPS is implemented. Some use sensors in the wheels, others use the ABS speed sensors.
I don't like sensors in the wheels, but they have to be a lot more accurate than using wheel speed.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 15, 2009, 03:39:47 PM
That's true, I suppose; but people should be routinely checking that anyways; and tire pressure monitors can't tell you how much tread you have left or whether or not the tire has been damaged.
Indeed. Of course, people don't.
Quote from: Psilos on February 15, 2009, 03:30:28 PM
What's the population of the world? 6 billion? Then there are 5,999,999,999 idiots in the world. :lol:
Quote from: TBR on February 15, 2009, 03:45:12 PM
Have a little self confidence, you're not an idiot either. That makes it 5,999,999,998.
Ha!
Quote from: Psilos on February 15, 2009, 03:52:15 PM
Indeed. Of course, people don't.
I do. But, as you've no doubt come to the conclusion already that I'm not exactly a fair representative of what the average person does, take that for whatever you'll take that for.
Quote from: MX793 on February 15, 2009, 03:29:05 PM
Depends on how the TPS is implemented. Some use sensors in the wheels, others use the ABS speed sensors.
All the newer ones use sensors. FWIW I think Ford uses a band around the wheel, rather than one that bolts in to the stem hole.
Quote from: NACar on February 15, 2009, 03:45:22 PM
I don't like sensors in the wheels, but they have to be a lot more accurate than using wheel speed.
Correct. The ABS based systems only detect if one tire is lower than the others, not the actual pressure. Now, this system works like crap if all of your tires are low simultaneously.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 15, 2009, 04:06:24 PM
I do. But, as you've no doubt come to the conclusion already that I'm not exactly a fair representative of what the average person does, take that for whatever you'll take that for.
I do, too. I guess we're not people. :huh:
I check them every now and again, but I know a little bit more than the average id10t.
One thing I make people aware of, if you buy a used car and the TPMS light is on, check tire pressures BEFORE you buy the car. If the light will not reset, it has a bad sensor or a missing sensor.
I've had two cars that had custom wheels installed and when it was sold, the originals were put back on with sensors missing. Very expensive to replace. I've also had several that tire jockeys have broken the bands when installing new tires.
So what is on your replacement list?
Quote from: JWC on February 16, 2009, 05:13:13 PM
Very expensive to replace.
Just like ALL them other newfangled electrodoohickeys...
Quote from: CALL_911 on February 16, 2009, 05:18:49 PM
So what is on your replacement list?
Camaro LT, '10 Mustang GT, Genesis Coupe V6, WRX, 128i. Might also consider a CPO late-model 3 series or A4 Quattro if I can find one equipped how I'd want it (manual gearbox is hard to find in the used market around here).
There's also a chance that things won't pan out as planned and I keep my car for another year.
Does the state safety inspection require that there not be any error lights related to the TPMS?
Quote from: JWC on February 16, 2009, 05:13:13 PM
One thing I make people aware of, if you buy a used car and the TPMS light is on, check tire pressures BEFORE you buy the car. If the light will not reset, it has a bad sensor or a missing sensor.
I've had two cars that had custom wheels installed and when it was sold, the originals were put back on with sensors missing. Very expensive to replace. I've also had several that tire jockeys have broken the bands when installing new tires.
A perfect example of why I don't want a newer car!
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Quote from: R-inge on February 15, 2009, 04:14:06 PM
All the newer ones use sensors. FWIW I think Ford uses a band around the wheel, rather than one that bolts in to the stem hole.
They do. And it looks cheap a shit and I can't believe that it holds.
Quote from: Onslaught on February 17, 2009, 01:55:47 PM
They do. And it looks cheap a shit and I can't believe that it holds.
lol Ford ingenuity for teh win.
Quote from: R-inge on February 15, 2009, 02:25:33 PM
See, that's another thing that bugs me. I am very reluctant to just replace things based on the fact that the customer is complaining about something. Yet if I don't throw a part at the problem they piss and moan about it. I've been bit often enough to know better, so I deal with the complaining.
Ha! My dealership is really obliging when you complain about something. My trunk struts froze up, so they put new ones in without me even getting a chance to ask what went wrong with the old ones. The new ones? They don't seem any better. I think it's temperature related, actually. My trunk opened up fully on a few warmer days.
My heated mirror stopped working, they put a new one on. I'm not sure it's working now, or if it just doesn't get as hot as my Passat did (when you heated the mirror, if you touched it, you could readily feel the heat), but since then I haven't had icing problems, so no harm, no foul. 10 minutes in the shop, I wasn't even at the dealer for half an hour before my car was done.
And rust on a car after 4 years? I thought my brother's car was bad.
Quote from: R-inge on February 17, 2009, 02:01:52 PM
lol Ford ingenuity for teh win.
You know how it is. Everyone make something one way and it works well. So they have to make something different just to be different.
Kind of like the old twin I-beam
Quote from: Raza on February 17, 2009, 02:09:22 PM
And rust on a car after 4 years? I thought my brother's car was bad.
I attribute part of it to the number of miles I drive on the NY thruway system. They don't use regular rock salt in the winter, from what I understand. I can't remember if they're using Calcium Chloride or Magnesium Chloride these days, but both are more corrosive than regular rock salt. I remember a couple of years ago, whatever they were spraying on the roads would not come off of your windshield using just the sprayers and wipers, you had to scrub it off. I think they've switched what they're using because the film seems to come off a little easier this year.
However, I'd also say that there are corrosion issues with these cars. There was no stone chip where the rust started, it started from the inside of the fender. I try to wash my car fairly regularly (although I won't wash it when temperatures are well below freezing because the doors and windows end up freezing shut). There are some Canadian owners that had their cars start rusting worse than mine (same parts of the car) after two or years, and one of them claims they washed it weekly and applied rust-proofing annually.
Doesn't Mazda offer a good-sized rust-through warranty? I know Honda does.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on February 17, 2009, 06:40:03 PM
Doesn't Mazda offer a good-sized rust-through warranty? I know Honda does.
5 year, unlimited miles. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a hole in the sheetmetal yet (and probably won't be before the 5 year mark, which is coming up in another couple of months). Canadian owners with rust similar to my own have apparently been told "tough luck" because the warranty is for perforation, not simply corrosion. I'm going to take it into the dealer and see if they'd be willing to cover fixing it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Ah yes, they throw in that "perforation" qualifier, as if that makes it any better. Dicks.
Quote from: MX793 on February 17, 2009, 06:51:50 PM
5 year, unlimited miles. Unfortunately, I don't think there's a hole in the sheetmetal yet (and probably won't be before the 5 year mark, which is coming up in another couple of months). Canadian owners with rust similar to my own have apparently been told "tough luck" because the warranty is for perforation, not simply corrosion. I'm going to take it into the dealer and see if they'd be willing to cover fixing it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Find some acid or some nasty crap to make believable oxidation perforations :P
I've never seen any rust on a new Mazda like that. But then again I don't live up north.
I can't believe they wouldn't fix that. I know if we had a car come in with it they would
down here.
I can plasma cut it some if you need holes. ;)
Quote from: Onslaught on February 18, 2009, 04:20:20 AM
I can plasma cut it some if you need holes. ;)
That's what I was thinking, just do it early enough the cut rusts up.. :)
Quote from: Raza on February 17, 2009, 02:09:22 PM
Ha! My dealership is really obliging when you complain about something. My trunk struts froze up, so they put new ones in without me even getting a chance to ask what went wrong with the old ones. The new ones? They don't seem any better. I think it's temperature related, actually. My trunk opened up fully on a few warmer days.
My heated mirror stopped working, they put a new one on. I'm not sure it's working now, or if it just doesn't get as hot as my Passat did (when you heated the mirror, if you touched it, you could readily feel the heat), but since then I haven't had icing problems, so no harm, no foul. 10 minutes in the shop, I wasn't even at the dealer for half an hour before my car was done.
And rust on a car after 4 years? I thought my brother's car was bad.
My friend's mom bought a Neon new in '98, and there was rust on it when she brought it home from the dealership.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on February 18, 2009, 03:16:42 PM
My friend's mom bought a Neon new in '98, and there was rust on it when she brought it home from the dealership.
What, on the exhaust manifold? :evildude:
Quote from: NACar on February 18, 2009, 03:28:20 PM
What, on the exhaust manifold? :evildude:
No, on the lip of the rear wheel well.