Majority of Fords will be electric within decade
The majority of automobiles sold by Ford will be electric within the next decade, according to Ford CEO Alan Mullaly. The automaker has already announced plans to have a battery-powered version of its Transit work van on the market in 2010, and an electric family sedan available in 2011. Ford is working with auto supplier Magna International on its electric vehicle technologies.
?In 10 years, 12 years, you are going to see a major portion of our portfolio move to electric vehicles,? Mulally said at the Wall Street Journal ECO:nomics conference in Santa Barbara, according to Reuters.
?Ten years is going to come very quickly and I think we?ll have a significant improvement in the fuel efficiency in the internal combustion engine,? Mulally noted. ?You?ll see more hybrids, but you will really see a lot more electric vehicles.?
Ford is said to be seeking $5 billion from the U.S. Department of Energy?s green car loan program. The DOE program has a total of $25 billion available, none of which has yet been dispersed. Tesla is seeking $350 million from the fund, while GM and Chrysler want over $8 billion each.
Ford has not received any ?bailout? money from the U.S. government. Mullaly says his company is financially stable and can complete its restructuring without government aid. ?We went to Washington to help GM and Chrysler, we didn?t need the money,? he said.
A real crying shame.
I agree. North America is going to have to upgrade the electrical grids in a massive way if this is going to happen. We'll have to start building nuclear powerplants right now in order to deal with the extra loads.
:facepalm:
I don't think it will actually happen. Electric vehicles are not money makers.
Quote from: HEMI666 on March 05, 2009, 11:55:12 AM
I agree. North America is going to have to upgrade the electrical grids in a massive way if this is going to happen. We'll have to start building nuclear powerplants right now in order to deal with the extra loads.
Ford is working with auto supplier Magna International on its electric vehicle technologies.I'd like to know more about the technologies they're planning to use.
Quote from: HEMI666 on March 05, 2009, 11:56:56 AM
I don't think it will actually happen. Electric vehicles are not money makers.
Ford wouldn't dare think of it but for the wise DOE and its $25B "green" car program.
Imagine the disaster when that money is spent, and people chose to buy used gas cars instead: electric cars will be subsidized, and if that doesn't work, government will tax gas vehicles like crazy.
We've entered the most dangerous time in all of American history.
This might make a good opportunity to begin marketing and selling home generators. Of course, they're probably going to be powered by gas or diesel anyways, but what's more green than driving an electric car off the grid? ;)
Quote from: Vinsanity on March 05, 2009, 12:11:15 PM
This might make a good opportunity to begin marketing and selling home generators. Of course, they're probably going to be powered by gas or diesel anyways, but what's more green than driving an electric car off the grid? ;)
Solar power! Cover your entire roof and lawn with solar panels.. we live in So Cal.. it's doable.
Quote from: Vinsanity on March 05, 2009, 12:11:15 PM
This might make a good opportunity to begin marketing and selling home generators. Of course, they're probably going to be powered by gas or diesel anyways, but what's more green than driving an electric car off the grid? ;)
Given incentive, not necessarily government grants, solar and other green technologies will, likely make great advances. If there is future profit to be made from that such as home recharging stations powered by solar, those with foresight will invest in this research.
Question
Where do I go to recharge
Will it be cheaper than gas
Will it sound like the Jetson's car after 10 years
Stupid idea.
U throw all that money into Ecoboost, etc and then come back with this?
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 05, 2009, 02:11:01 PM
U throw all that money into Ecoboost, etc and then come back with this?
all "Ecoboost" is is a marketing label for a new series of engines. Like "VTAK" is for a new-fangled valve timing contraption.
Quote from: Vinsanity on March 05, 2009, 02:44:20 PM
all "Ecoboost" is is a marketing label for a new series of engines. Like "VTAK" is for a new-fangled valve timing contraption.
You missed his point. His point was that they invested hundreds of millions into developing the EcoBoost line of engines and they are already planning on abandoning them and going all electric.
Quote from: HEMI666 on March 05, 2009, 02:52:21 PM
You missed his point. His point was that they invested hundreds of millions into developing the EcoBoost line of engines and they are already planning on abandoning them and going all electric.
In all fairness, the article does say
majority of Ford's models, not all of Ford's models. So it's conceivable that the Ecoboost and its successors could be put into simultaneous use with electric variants.
Mullaly's quote reads like they're going to offer a majority of their models as electric vehicles, not that the majority of their actual consumer sales will be electric. They'll give 6/10 of their models an electric option and hail it as the best thing in automotive history, while the vast majority of sales will remain conventional. Obviously, I'm skeptical.
Quote from: MaxPower on March 05, 2009, 03:43:39 PM
In all fairness, the article does say majority of Ford's models, not all of Ford's models. So it's conceivable that the Ecoboost and its successors could be put into simultaneous use with electric variants.
Mullaly's quote reads like they're going to offer a majority of their models as electric vehicles, not that the majority of their actual consumer sales will be electric. They'll give 6/10 of their models an electric option and hail it as the best thing in automotive history, while the vast majority of sales will remain conventional. Obviously, I'm skeptical.
He doesn't really say that either. He says "a major portion." I don't know that we can automatically take that to mean more than half, just that they intend to have significant electric vehicles sales by that time.
Quote from: HEMI666 on March 05, 2009, 02:52:21 PM
You missed his point. His point was that they invested hundreds of millions into developing the EcoBoost line of engines and they are already planning on abandoning them and going all electric.
True, but I'd imagine an all-electric F-150 requiring an impractically massive battery pack in order to do the things F-150's need to do.
I also cannot imagine the Mustang's only powertrain option to be an all-electric one.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on March 05, 2009, 02:11:01 PM
Will it sound like the Jetson's car after 10 years
I think all Rotary owners already has cars that sound like Jetson's car today!
I don't see it happening, but maybe Mulally is just saving face to appear 'green' to the audience of gov't just to keep them out of Ford's affairs.
That being said, GM was all hype about the EV1 when it was released. Look where that went.
Quote from: 3.0L V6 on March 05, 2009, 06:12:06 PM
I don't see it happening, but maybe Mulally is just saving face to appear 'green' to the audience of gov't just to keep them out of Ford's affairs.
That being said, GM was all hype about the EV1 when it was released. Look where that went.
The EV1 was a direct response to Kalifornia's stupid ZEV law. When they repealed it, the EV1 no longer had a purpose.
This is so stupid.
"Ford to have all solar powered fleet by 2011"
Hauling around those massively-heavy battery packs is a terrible waste of precious energy.
Quote from: Morris Minor on March 06, 2009, 10:08:35 AM
Hauling around those massively-heavy battery packs is a terrible waste of precious energy.
Certainly the research on such as
Hybrid Carbon Nanotube Metal Oxide Arrays to Improve Lithium Battery Technology (http://www.merid.org/NDN/more.php?id=1707) offer promise of significant improvement in the batteries needed for hybrid, plug-in and electric vehicles of the near future. In this dire era of economical exasperation, it is the new technologies that will provide the growth that is needed to employ those who have been set adrift as the old industries, who have too long refused to invest in the future, slowly sink beneath the surface.
Quote from: FoMoJo on March 06, 2009, 11:22:51 AM
Certainly the research on such as Hybrid Carbon Nanotube Metal Oxide Arrays to Improve Lithium Battery Technology (http://www.merid.org/NDN/more.php?id=1707) offer promise of significant improvement in the batteries needed for hybrid, plug-in and electric vehicles of the near future. In this dire era of economical exasperation, it is the new technologies that will provide the growth that is needed to employ those who have been set adrift as the old industries, who have too long refused to invest in the future, slowly sink beneath the surface.
It was my undestanding that nanotubes could only be produced under extended periods of microgravity- as in aboard an orbiting spacecraft.
Somehow I think that might be cost-prohibitive.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 06, 2009, 03:13:43 PM
It was my undestanding that nanotubes could only be produced under extended periods of microgravity- as in aboard an orbiting spacecraft.
Somehow I think that might be cost-prohibitive.
According to
Manikoth Shaijumon (http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=9814), it is...
the whole idea can be transferred to a large scale as well. It is very manufacturable. Of course, he's a researcher.
There seems to be a fair bit of research and development underway...
MIT Researchers Fired Up About Battery Alternative: Nanotube Structures Key To Work
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060208163356.htm)
NASA - Carbon Nanotube Anodes Being Evaluated for Lithium Ion Batteries (http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/RT2001/5000/5410hepp1.html)
Great stuff.
At least they'll push the technology along- imagine what the improvements in batteries, charging, and motors will do for electric TOYS... :D
Quote from: FoMoJo on March 06, 2009, 03:25:05 PM
According to Manikoth Shaijumon (http://www.azonano.com/news.asp?newsID=9814), it is... the whole idea can be transferred to a large scale as well. It is very manufacturable. Of course, he's a researcher.
There seems to be a fair bit of research and development underway...
MIT Researchers Fired Up About Battery Alternative: Nanotube Structures Key To Work
(http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2006/02/060208163356.htm)
NASA - Carbon Nanotube Anodes Being Evaluated for Lithium Ion Batteries (http://www.grc.nasa.gov/WWW/RT/RT2001/5000/5410hepp1.html)
Im aware of the avantages of using them, but none of those articles really address the problem of how to make them cheaply and in large enough numbers. Granted, a breakthrough would change that, but those are nearly impossible to predict.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 05, 2009, 12:08:12 PM
Ford wouldn't dare think of it but for the wise DOE and its $25B "green" car program.
Imagine the disaster when that money is spent, and people chose to buy used gas cars instead: electric cars will be subsidized, and if that doesn't work, government will tax gas vehicles like crazy.
We've entered the most dangerous time in all of American history.
Dude, I think you've got your tin-foil hat on a little too tight!
Cheers,
Madman of the People
...All this assumes that Ford survives the next 10 years....that is not a sure thing.
Quote from: Soup DeVille on March 06, 2009, 07:07:17 PM
Im aware of the avantages of using them, but none of those articles really address the problem of how to make them cheaply and in large enough numbers. Granted, a breakthrough would change that, but those are nearly impossible to predict.
Another interesting article...
Battery that 'charges in seconds' (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7938001.stm).
excerpt...
However, the researchers found that their new material does not lose its capacity to charge over time in the way that standard lithium ion batteries do.
That means that the excess material put into standard batteries to compensate for this loss over time is not necessary, leading to smaller, lighter batteries with phenomenal charging rates.
What is more, because there are relatively few changes to the standard manufacturing process, Professor Ceder believes the new battery material could make it to market within two to three years.
Speculative perhaps, but the research and development is encouraging.
Hmm. Oil isn't going to be around forever. Fuel from foodstuffs is also a dead end. But there are a myriad ways of making/storing/delivering electricity. For most transportation needs, pushing that tech forward is the best solution. If everyone were being FORCED by the governemtn to move that direction instatnly, then maybe that could be seen as bad. But giving an incentive and one or two company(ies) out of how many move that direction? The market will still be able to decide whether that's viable.
Quote from: ChrisV on March 11, 2009, 02:31:50 PM
Hmm. Oil isn't going to be around forever. Fuel from foodstuffs is also a dead end. But there are a myriad ways of making/storing/delivering electricity. For most transportation needs, pushing that tech forward is the best solution. If everyone were being FORCED by the governemtn to move that direction instatnly, then maybe that could be seen as bad. But giving an incentive and one or two company(ies) out of how many move that direction? The market will still be able to decide whether that's viable.
Deregulate and killing the welfare state is a much faster way to let the market decide what is best.
I don't see how electric cars are it without the government for all intents and purposes outlawing gasoline.
Knowing that gasoline and oil are going away simply by our constant overuse are a reason for electrics to be "it." What are we going to use when there is no more oil for transportation? Simply put, I'd rather not let the market wait until then to scramble to try make the only available way work.
The government isn't telling companies WHICH tech to use, they are simply giving incentive to do research and development in a general direction. And that direction is away from oil. That leaves a LOT of choice in which direction to go. But, realistically, electric power is the most logical direction. But how you arrive at that electrical power, whether it's advanced battery storage, hydrogen storage, solar, nuclear, algae, whatever, is still up for grabs. Hell, looking into it could result in a breakthrough in electical generation thorugh something as off the wall and "kooky" as zero point field technology.
And none of it has anything to do with "the welfare state."
Perhaps venture capital needs some assurance that the product will succeed, if they're gambling with other people's money. With some assistance, either from the government or private capital, I believe that amazing technology is just around the corner. It's a bit of a gamble but otherwise, we are just marking time. Even GM, with their Volt prototype a couple of years ago, was taking a big gamble that battery technology would advance enough to fulfil their requirements. It seems, almost, there.
Quote from: FoMoJo on March 11, 2009, 04:37:55 PM
Perhaps venture capital needs some assurance that the product will succeed, if they're gambling with other people's money. With some assistance, either from the government or private capital, I believe that amazing technology is just around the corner. It's a bit of a gamble but otherwise, we are just marking time. Even GM, with their Volt prototype a couple of years ago, was taking a big gamble that battery technology would advance enough to fulfil their requirements. It seems, almost, there.
Well, they would've had the technology if they didn't sell it off to the oil companies.
Quote from: GoCougs on March 11, 2009, 02:53:23 PM
Deregulate and killing the welfare state is a much faster way to let the market decide what is best.
I don't see how electric cars are it without the government for all intents and purposes outlawing gasoline.
The problem isn't regulation in itself perhaps, but psychotic regulations that try to force incompatible things: Like encouraging more electricity use through electric cars, but discouraging (quite effectively at that) electricity production.