2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor: priced from $38,995
04/18/2009, 6:19 PM BY NICK AZIZ, Leftlane News
Ford unveiled its 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor back in November, but made no mention at the time of anticipated pricing. Over the weekend, Ford officially announced the high-performance truck will start at $38,995 for the 5.4-liter version and $41,995 for the ballsier 6.2-liter edition. A luxury package with 10-way adjustable leather seats will add $1,995, while the exterior graphics package (shown in some photos) will cost $1,075. An interior accent package for $395 adds orange mesh trim and orange seat inserts.
The off-road truck is powered by an updated version of the regular F-150?s 5.4-liter Triton V8 three-valve engine, delivering 320 horsepower and 390 pound-feet of torque. Also available will be a new 6.2-liter Boss V8 engine recently developed by the automaker, deliver 400 hp and 400 lb-ft of torque.
Ford says it performed extensive testing on the new powerplant, including subjecting fifty prototype engines to more than a dozen of the toughest engine tests at Ford?s dynamometer lab.
The SVT division used a 62-mile durability loop in the desert of Borrego Springs, California, to replicate the conditions of the Baja 1000 race, to further test the performance of both available engines.
While much of the focus will be on the new 6.2-liter mill, the 5.4-liter Triton also features a number of new technologies. A new open-valve fuel injection strategy improves horsepower during towing and higher rpm operations, while delivering lower emissions and better fuel economy.
Of course, engines are only part of the equation. A great deal of R&D went into the truck?s modified chassis and suspension. With 13.4 inches of usable travel in the rear suspension and 11.2 in the front, the Raptor promises to be a capable off-roader.
Raptor?s wider track and softer suspension mean it will glide over obstacles with relative ease. The suspension?s dampers were designed by Fox Racing Shox, giving the Raptor the only internal bypass shocks on a street truck. The position sensitive dampening internal bypass feature allows the shock to become significantly stiffer as it travels, preventing the truck from bottoming out.
The last component of the Raptor?s connection to the ground comes in the form of BF Goodrich All-Terrain TA/KO 315/70-17 tires. Mounted on 17-inch wheels, these 35-inch tires are designed to work on- and off-road.
High-tech features include: Trailer Sway Control, an Integrated Trailer Brake Controller, an Electronic Locking Differential, Hill Descent Control, an Off-Road Mode, and an Auxiliary Switch Board to facilitate aftermarket add-ons.
The F-150 SVT Raptor will be built along side the new F-150 at Ford?s Dearborn Truck Plant at the Rouge Center in Dearborn, Michigan.
(http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2010_ford_f150_svt_raptor_image001.jpg)
Do want. :wub:
That looks like something a freaking 10-year-old would design.
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 19, 2009, 12:59:37 PM
That looks like something a freaking 10-year-old would design.
So does just about any car that makes me go :wub:
Whats up with the lil lights (LED?) in the grill and bumper?
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on April 19, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
Whats up with the lil lights (LED?) in the grill and bumper?
An homage to KITT?
Will it be available in an MT???
Quote from: thecarnut on April 19, 2009, 02:49:59 PM
Fail.
Not really, who want a MT full size truck? The F-150 is no longer available with a MT period.
Quote from: giant_mtb on April 19, 2009, 03:09:22 PM
Obviously you've never driven off road.
I thought manual was better? Especially if it had a uber low first gear?
Hopefully you can get it without the graphics.
Quote from: M_power on April 19, 2009, 04:20:59 PM
I thought manual was better? Especially if it had a uber low first gear?
For high-speed baja-like driving (which this truck is mostly designed for, no?), I think an automatic or paddle-shift automatic is better. If I'm driving 60+ MPH over huge bumps and jumps, I don't want to have to worry about trying to clutch and shift. A lot of CORR racing trucks (that I've seen up close, anyways) use automated manuals or full automatics.
:huh:
I would never get a manual with a truck. :nono:
Quote from: M_power on April 19, 2009, 04:20:59 PM
I thought manual was better? Especially if it had a uber low first gear?
That's what I thought too.
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 19, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
That's what I thought too.
Better for slow speed offroading...
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 19, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
That's what I thought too.
Go rock-crawling with a manual. Or watch some professional rock crawling on TV (or YouTube)...they don't use manuals. They use a thing called "low gearing." It works wonders.
Quote from: M_power on April 19, 2009, 04:20:59 PM
I thought manual was better? Especially if it had a uber low first gear?
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 19, 2009, 04:29:05 PM
That's what I thought too.
Quote from: thecarnut on April 19, 2009, 04:29:57 PM
Better for slow speed offroading...
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/sander233/fail/holy-facepalm.jpg)
Quote from: sandertheshark on April 19, 2009, 05:43:36 PM
(http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l43/sander233/fail/holy-facepalm.jpg)
:wtf:
I prefer M/T in a truck (I've owned 'em both ways).
However, virtually no one buys $40k+ trucks and offroads them hardcore. This may have some chops, but it's a poseur ride.
And yes Ford, we get that it's a FORD. Good grief, that grill has gotta go.
Quote from: GoCougs on April 19, 2009, 05:55:15 PM
I prefer M/T in a truck (I've owned 'em both ways).
However, virtually no one buys $40k+ trucks and offroads them hardcore. This may have some chops, but it's a poseur ride.
I'm sure the tens of thousands of well-heeled off-roaders who buy Range Rovers, Hummers and modified Chevies Fords and Dodges would protest being collectively labeled "virtually no one."
If I had an extra $30k I would trade in my Avalanche for this baby, grille, graphics and all. I love it. And I would I off-road the
hell out of it.
This sort of truck is good for only one kind of off-roading, but I know we've already beat that one to death in another thread.
I'd rather take a Tonka truck off-roading, frankly.
A few problems
- It looks extraordinarily goofy.
- 40k?
- No manual available on the F150 period? :facepalm:
Let me qualify: I love manual trucks, and I would love to buy a manual Taco.
That said, have you (Sub, Rags) ever driven a full size truck with a stick shift? Or a manual truck period?
It's not exactly a loss to mourn.
(BTW, you can still purchase a 6 spd on the 250)
Quote from: Catman on April 19, 2009, 04:21:25 PM
Hopefully you can get it without the graphics.
Yes, you can.
Also, the LED lights across the front: If I remember correctly, the truck is wide enough, it needs those orange lights going across the truck like 18 wheels, and F350's have. So they integrated them into the front like that. Looks pretty cool to me.
I'd love to have one of these in black.
Quote from: Tave on April 19, 2009, 07:59:56 PM
Let me qualify: I love manual trucks, and I would love to buy a manual Taco.
That said, have you (Sub, Rags) ever driven a full size truck with a stick shift? Or a manual truck period?
It's not exactly a loss to mourn.
(BTW, you can still purchase a 6 spd on the 250)
:ohyeah:
My Ford stick shift is a piece. The whole truck is jerky as shit, and it's not because I'm not good at driving manuals.
I've driven a bunch of automatic 4x4s, and it really doesn't get in the way of off-roading, at least in the ways that I've ever done. Maybe people don't realize it, but you can downshift an automatic, which negates the advantages of a manual in a truck off road.
I like trucks that are actually good at the things trucks are supposed to be good at, but I don't like penis-mobiles, so I'm in the middle on this one.
:lol:
Quote from: Psilos on April 19, 2009, 09:06:32 PM
I like trucks that are actually good at the things trucks are supposed to be good at, but I don't like penis-mobiles, so I'm in the middle on this one.
:lol:
You're in the middle of a penis mobile?
(http://saladwithsteve.com/agcar.gif)
:lol:
Quote from: Tave on April 19, 2009, 07:59:56 PM
Let me qualify: I love manual trucks, and I would love to buy a manual Taco.
That said, have you (Sub, Rags) ever driven a full size truck with a stick shift? Or a manual truck period?
It's not exactly a loss to mourn.
(BTW, you can still purchase a 6 spd on the 250)
Yeah I have to agree with that. Driving a full size truck with a stick is not a pleasant experience in most cases, so it doesn't necessarily increase the "Fun" factor. Maybe slightly more downhill speed control, but the loss in flexibility (stop/go, crawling up steep grades in low range is a lot of what I'm used to off-road) means that I think I would actually prefer an auto in a 4x4.
Now if you were to give me a Frontier with that slick-shifting 6speed behind the 4.0, I'd shake your hand with a big smile.
I drove the company worktruck, a V6 Dodge Dakota 5-speed, at the BMW dealership. It was neither precise nor sporting. It was kinda fun in a thrash 'em farm truck kind of way, though.
why in the world would anyone have to work a clutch off-roading... the clutch would be toast in minutes
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 08:15:57 AM
why in the world would anyone have to work a clutch off-roading... the clutch would be toast in minutes
:confused: It would?
any sort of rock crawling, or going up steep inclines, or any time you have to inch your way past an obsticle would indeed hose you pretty quickly... think about it
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 08:43:08 AM
any sort of rock crawling, or going up steep inclines, or any time you have to inch your way past an obsticle would indeed hose you pretty quickly... think about it
Sure, if you're clutch is out of a 2cyl economy car.
Torque converters are doing the same thing and are not falling apart.
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 08:43:08 AM
any sort of rock crawling, or going up steep inclines, or any time you have to inch your way past an obsticle would indeed hose you pretty quickly... think about it
Mine held up fine. I don't do the real crazy stuff, but I beat it up well enough. :huh:
Quote from: 2o6 on April 20, 2009, 08:45:25 AM
Sure, if you're clutch is out of a 2cyl economy car.
Torque converters are doing the same thing and are not falling apart.
Automatics are different. You don't have a friction plate rubbing up against the gearset in an automatic quite the way you do in a stick car.
Quote from: 2o6 on April 20, 2009, 08:45:25 AM
Sure, if you're clutch is out of a 2cyl economy car.
Torque converters are doing the same thing and are not falling apart.
heavy duty auto trannies also have an oil cooler...
If your stopped on the side of a steep incline trying to go over an obstacle, would you rather be working the gas and brake, or gas/brake/clutch while worrying about stalling and/or drifting backwards??
The one and only advantage a manula has in offroading is rocking the truck to get unstuck, otherwise an automatic is the way to go offroad.
Quote from: the Teuton on April 20, 2009, 08:50:36 AM
Automatics are different. You don't have a friction plate rubbing up against the gearset in an automatic quite the way you do in a stick car.
But an A/T does employ clutches and bands (i.e., wear items) to shift gears, and has a fluid pump, cooler, valve body, and some other stuff that renders it extremely susceptible to heat.
In general, the hardcore off-roaders I've known generally prefer M/T (as do I - and I've had both). They are profound simpler (= more reliable and robust), not susceptible to heat, and offer infinite control over gear selection (= important when in 4Lo).
A/Ts are the "choice" because the vast majority of trucks and SUVs originally came with A/T from the factory.
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 08:59:17 AM
heavy duty auto trannies also have an oil cooler...
If your stopped on the side of a steep incline trying to go over an obstacle, would you rather be working the gas and brake, or gas/brake/clutch while worrying about stalling and/or drifting backwards??
Well that's easy enough; set the parking brake and get into the friction zone till you're about to stall, then release the brake.
While you learn the method it is abusive of the clutch, but after a while it's no big deal.
Bah. Once you're familiar with your clutch you don't even need that.
And why would you stop on a steep incline to negotiate a rock/obstacle? You would just slow down as you approach it.
You might ride the clutch a little at that point, but an auto would too.
christ... i smelled my clutch in my car just trying to ease it up a pair of ramps
:confused:
Once competent with a clutch off road burning it out isn't a concern - it probably won't last 150k miles like that in a sedate, street-driven compact, but they can be plenty robust when not abused.
(http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2010_ford_f150_svt_raptor_image001.jpg)
Oh for goodness sake. No wonder we all laugh at you. ;)
"IMMA FORD" !
Quote from: Tave on April 20, 2009, 09:56:25 AM
Bah. Once you're familiar with your clutch you don't even need that.
And why would you stop on a steep incline to negotiate a rock/obstacle? You would just slow down as you approach it.
You might ride the clutch a little at that point, but an auto would too.
Well, and the nice thing about low range at that point is that you can often idle along in gear, depending on the engine and gearing.
Quote from: R-inge on April 20, 2009, 10:50:14 AM
Well, and the nice thing about low range at that point is that you can often idle along in gear, depending on the engine and gearing.
Many hardcore rockcrawlers use the starter only in really tight situations to move the over an obstacle very carefully, of course this is only possible with a manual.
...being able to bump the starter with a manual tranny in gear also makes it not DOT legal...
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 01:21:27 PM
...being able to bump the starter with a manual tranny in gear also makes it not DOT legal...
Not true - Toyota Tacoma has a "clutch start cancel" dashboard button thereby allowing starting the engine without depressing the clutch, which is to say that you can also bump the starter with the M/T in gear (did it lots of times myself).
Yeah my 4Runner had a safety cancel too.
I used it when I went skiing to start the car and warm it while I took off my boots/gear.
When I went to the Dominican Republic this past year, we went on a Jeep safari tour around the sugar plantations and then up the mountains to the coffee farms. The Wranglers were completely stripped out 4 cylinder 5-spd manuals that they had us drive around and the tour was pretty involved, especially when we were going up the mountains; steep inclines, completely uneven ground, and rocks galore along a pretty narrow path, but there was no problem with the engine/tranny combo. I'm sure it would have been easier with an auto, especially for me since I'm not that great with a stick, but damn was it fun.
Quote from: omicron on April 20, 2009, 10:34:30 AM
Oh for goodness sake. No wonder we all laugh at you. ;)
When it comes to things like this, I don't think we take our selves too seriously either.
I prefer a stick, anyway, even if it is shitty, but I don't think I'd let an automatic get in the way of a good 4x4, especially if it had a big engine.
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 09:57:38 AM
christ... i smelled my clutch in my car just trying to ease it up a pair of ramps
It's different off road. Low gearing helps.
Quote from: r0tor on April 20, 2009, 01:21:27 PM
...being able to bump the starter with a manual tranny in gear also makes it not DOT legal...
My MG, and I think my old Volvo, could do that.
Of course, they are/were both 30 + years old. :lol:
Quote from: Psilos on April 20, 2009, 10:26:59 PM
I prefer a stick, anyway, even if it is shitty, but I don't think I'd let an automatic get in the way of a good 4x4, especially if it had a big engine.
My friend had this Ram 2500 with the 8.0L V10 and a 6 spd. It was simply ridiculous. The rear broke loose any time it even smelled dirt. I think an auto in that beast may have been a bit more useable.
Quote from: Psilos on April 20, 2009, 10:41:07 PM
My MG, and I think my old Volvo, could do that.
Of course, they are/were both 30 + years old. :lol:
We had a guy pinned between a car and a workbench here because one of our lube techs didn't know that older cars could do that. He started it in gear and it lurched forward, injuring the other man. His hips are FUBAR to this day.
Quote from: R-inge on April 21, 2009, 07:52:00 AM
We had a guy pinned between a car and a workbench here because one of our lube techs didn't know that older cars could do that. He started it in gear and it lurched forward, injuring the other man. His hips are FUBAR to this day.
I accidentally did that with the '86 CRX I had as a loaner last time I took my car to the mechanic (well I didn't injure anyone, in fact I don't think anyone saw it). If you're not used to it, it can really take you by surprise (I normally turn the key before I push in the clutch.
Quote from: Psilos on April 20, 2009, 10:41:07 PM
My MG, and I think my old Volvo, could do that.
Of course, they are/were both 30 + years old. :lol:
Interesting. My El Camino has to have the clutch depressed and it's 10 years older.
Quote from: omicron on April 20, 2009, 10:34:30 AM
(http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/2010_ford_f150_svt_raptor_image001.jpg)
Oh for goodness sake. No wonder we all laugh at you. ;)
Do you have any idea how awesome this truck would be in the Outback?
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 21, 2009, 04:57:40 PM
...truck...Outback?
(http://www.dragtimes.com/images/8708-2005-Subaru-Baja.jpg)
:praise:
Sometimes I just do it to piss you off. :lol:
Quote from: Tave on April 21, 2009, 07:27:03 AM
My friend had this Ram 2500 with the 8.0L V10 and a 6 spd. It was simply ridiculous. The rear broke loose any time it even smelled dirt. I think an auto in that beast may have been a bit more useable.
Exactly. :lol:
I like manuals in low power vehicles because the gear you are in is pretty important for, well, everything. But in something with a lot of power, the auto is better. Keep in mind that I'm comparing a 125 hp I4 to a 350 or so hp V10 in a giant tank of a truck, so it's really not that huge of a difference, as felt while driving.
Quote from: hotrodalex on April 21, 2009, 04:49:40 PM
Interesting. My El Camino has to have the clutch depressed and it's 10 years older.
'69? Try three years older. ;)
Quote from: HEMI666 on April 21, 2009, 04:57:40 PM
Do you have any idea how awesome this truck would be in the Outback?
I imagine you could run right over a drop bear and not even feel it.
Quote from: Psilos on April 21, 2009, 07:06:28 PM
'69? Try three years older. ;)
Eh, I was going off your "30 + years older" part.
From www.leftlanenews.com:
Ford takes more than 1,500 orders for F-150 SVT Raptor
08/12/2009, 3:20 PM By Andrew Ganz
Ford says that more than 1,500 orders have been placed for its radical, high-performance off road-oriented F-150 SVT Raptor truck ? a figure that has maxed out capacity at the automaker?s River Rouge plant in Michigan.
The automaker says that more than 40 percent of the trucks ordered so far have been swathed in either Molten Orange or Tuxedo black and that most have been loaded up with a moonroof, the Luxury package (which includes heated seats and a premium audio system, among other features) and that over half have been equipped with the exterior graphics package.
As is the case with most high-performance vehicles, a good number of SVT Raptors will be tucked away as collectibles ? Ford says about 16 percent of the mostly male buyers claim they purchased the truck because of its collectible value. Only 31 percent, however, say that they purchased the F-150 SVT Raptor for its off road ability.
Leftlane will be behind the wheel of a Raptor soon and we?ll be sure to report back our first drive impressions.
Quote from: Catman on April 19, 2009, 04:21:25 PM
Hopefully you can get it without the graphics.
In fact they want $ 1.075 for those ugly graphics.
While I think it looks a bit to cartoonish, I do prefer it to the Lightnings. Nothing is more schitzophren then lowering a truck or SUV.
I gotta say, it's growing on me. Not the graphics per ce, but overall. Lack of a low range still kinda sucks.
That truck is awesome! Speeding off road sounds awesome.
Personally I wanted the Raptor to be a proper offroad machine rather then a Baja racer, but it is what it is, and it's quite good for what it is.
Quote from: R-inge on August 13, 2009, 01:55:01 PM
I gotta say, it's growing on me. Not the graphics per ce, but overall. Lack of a low range still kinda sucks.
Why would you ever need low range for the type of driving this truck was designed for? :huh:
Quote from: giant_mtb on August 13, 2009, 04:58:35 PM
Why would you ever need low range for the type of driving this truck was designed for? :huh:
We already went over it, go back and read a couple of pages since you're confused.
Quote from: R-inge on August 16, 2009, 07:42:53 PM
We already went over it, go back and read a couple of pages since you're confused.
Low range is useless in a truck designed for high speed offroading.
From the SVT website:
Details of Ford's new 6.2 liter V8 for Raptor!
* The 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor launches with the proven three-valve Triton 5.4-liter V-8 engine delivering 320 horsepower and 390 ft.-lb. of torque; a new 6.2-liter engine with an estimated 400 horsepower and 400 ft.-lb. of torque becomes available shortly after launch
* Both engines underwent extreme laboratory testing, including running the engines at over 6,000 rpm for more than 150 hours
* The engines also were put to the test in the desert on a 62-mile evaluation loop to prove out the durability demanded by high-performance, off-road enthusiasts
Borrego Springs, Calif., Aug. 17, 2009 ? Mike Harrison?s enthusiasm for V-8 engines is apparent. Harrison, Ford Motor Company?s premium V-8 systems manager, is particularly excited about the availability of the new 6.2-liter V-8 that will power the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor.
Producing an estimated 400 horsepower and 400 ft.-lb. of torque, Harrison rattles off the new engine?s components and features quickly and easily, pointing them out and explaining them with more than a trace of pride.
Harrison wants that engine to perform to its maximum capabilities so that customers of the F-150 SVT Raptor won?t have anything to worry about. In short, if the engine can withstand the rigorous testing Ford demands during the development cycle, it can withstand almost anything the most enthusiastic off-roader can dish out, even desert racers.
The testing is intense. It?s cruel, dusty and dirty. By working in the lab to push the engine to its limits, the process simulates how a customer would use the engine. But then it goes a little bit further.
?Running it over 6,000 rpm for more than 150 hours, which is over the peak power limit of the engine, really puts it through its paces,? Harrison said. ?We?ve tested it in harsher operating conditions on the engine dyno than would ever be seen by a customer who races.?
Beginning in fall 2006, Harrison and his team tested more than 50 engines, with each running through a dozen separate tests. Evaluations included high-speed durability, crank-torsional testing, aeration and a thermal cycle where the engine is ?shocked? from one temperature extreme to another.
As with all Ford programs, attention to detail was a hallmark of the testing process.
?We did a careful teardown of each engine at completion of testing to ensure there absolutely are no issues with the hardware,? Harrison said. ?These are very demanding, very stringent tests ? far more stringent than anything you would see on a truck ? racing or otherwise.?
Testing in the heat
Besides dyno testing, the engine was put to the test in its element ? the desert of Borrego Springs, Calif. Important factors such as engine cooling were evaluated on the 62-mile test loop designed by Ford?s Special Vehicle Team (SVT).
Engine cooling is key on Raptor ? when the truck is in a desert environment, the hot weather and deep sand put a heavy load on the vehicle, and the engine has to exert maximum power to keep it going through deep sand.
There also is less airflow through the radiator at low speeds, and a large and effective cooling system is required for this extreme environment. To improve airflow to the engine, grille openings were increased by 20 percent.
?We spent a lot of time developing our desert durability test so that it?s very close to replicating the Baja 1000,? said Kerry Baldori, SVT chief functional engineer. ?Desert testing proved to be a very quick way to learn about the reliability of the truck and it put another level of extreme loads on the engine that our normal durability testing doesn?t cover.?
Features of the new 6.2-liter V-8 engine include:
* Cast-iron engine block and four-bolt main bearing caps, with additional cross bolts :rockon:, for durability
* Aluminum cylinder heads, with two valves per cylinder head and two spark plugs per cylinder :rockon: to more efficiently burn the fuel-air mixture in the combustion
* Single overhead camshaft with roller-rocker shaft drivetrain, which creates a stiff valvetrain that allows optimized camshaft lift profiles and results in better low-speed torque. The roller-rocker shafts allow valve angles to be splayed, resulting in optimized intake and exhaust port layout for better engine ?breathing?
* Dual-equal variable cam timing means intake and exhaust valve opening and closing events are phased at the same time to optimize fuel economy and performance throughout the engine speed range and throttle positions (I'd say this is more Marketing hype than engineering finesse :tounge:)
Core to the improvements is using a larger bore and shorter stroke. This approach to creating power has its roots in storied Ford racing engines from the past. The large bore (102 mm) allows for larger intake and exhaust valves for improved engine breathing, and the shorter stroke (95 mm) allows higher engine speed for increased horsepower. Still, peak horsepower is generated at a relatively modest 5,500 rpm. Piston cooling jets squirt oil on the underside of the pistons to keep the piston crowns cool under extreme operating conditions.
Crankcase breathing is also improved to reduce windage losses and oil aeration levels at very high speeds. ?That really helps get a robust lubrication system for the engine,? said Harrison. ?It allows us to endure a lot of time at extreme high speeds.?
The 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor launches with Ford?s proven three-valve Triton 5.4-liter V-8 engine. The new 6.2-liter engine will become available in early 2010.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 17, 2009, 07:49:11 AM
Low range is useless in a truck designed for high speed offroading.
Not at all - with big meats like that, that truck will bog and have tire spin modulation issues in deepish sand, mud and snow.
Cast iron block and two valves per cylinder???
D'oh! Ford botches yet another engine development project...
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 08:01:23 AM
Not at all - with big meats like that, that truck will bog and have tire spin modulation issues in deepish sand, mud and snow.
I am not 100% certain but I believe that the Dakar racers do not have low range.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 08:24:35 AM
Cast iron block and two valves per cylinder???
D'oh! Ford botches yet another engine development project...
You do realize that every manufacturer uses cast iron for their truck blocks right? One reason is that trucks take a shit load of abuse, especially a truck like the Raptor (if used as intended), and another reason is that when a truck weighs in at 5500 lbs, 50 extra pounds ain't makin' a damn bit of difference.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 08:01:23 AM
Not at all - with big meats like that, that truck will bog and have tire spin modulation issues in deepish sand, mud and snow.
I've never seen a Baja racer with low range.
Well then it's useless for any kind of "offroading" other that across a dirt field or something. Way to go Ford. :clap:
Quote from: R-inge on August 19, 2009, 10:02:27 AM
Well then it's useless for any kind of "offroading" other that across a dirt field or something. Way to go Ford. :clap:
It's Baja style racer. It's not meant for rock crawling or anything like that. It's meant for high speed offroad racing, and since 85% of our continent is flat or just "hilly", it seems appropriate. It's useless for me considering where I live, but it's pretty much perfect for anywhere east of the Rockies.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 10:20:39 AM
It's Baja style racer. It's not meant for rock crawling or anything like that. It's meant for high speed offroad racing, and since 85% of our continent is flat or just "hilly", it seems appropriate. It's useless for me considering where I live, but it's pretty much perfect for anywhere east of the Rockies.
Yeah, I get the target audience, but I still don't see it as being a well-rounded truck. Baja racers also have a couple feet of suspension travel and tube chassis to deal with the abuse of flying across the desert and over jumps and such. I seriously question the longevity of one of these if driven as a serious Baja racer. That's why I value low range. You can creep along offroad up most obstacles without ever stressing the vehicle. I suppose though that if your main pursuit in life is cattle, this truck's for you. :ohyeah:
Quote from: Galaxy on August 19, 2009, 08:50:59 AM
I am not 100% certain but I believe that the Dakar racers do not have low range.
I was just relaying my personal experience, having driven on beaches and sand dunes - even moderately deep stuff (6-10") can bog down a truck when in hi-range.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 09:31:20 AM
You do realize that every manufacturer uses cast iron for their truck blocks right? One reason is that trucks take a shit load of abuse, especially a truck like the Raptor (if used as intended), and another reason is that when a truck weighs in at 5500 lbs, 50 extra pounds ain't makin' a damn bit of difference.
Toyota's 4.6L and 5.7L V8s, GM's 6.2L V8 and Nissan's 5.6L all use aluminum alloy blocks.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 09:32:13 AM
I've never seen a Baja racer with low range.
Chances are the vast majority of baja racers you've seen are 2WD or if 4WD and the size/weight of the Raptor, have 50 - 100%+ more power.
IMO I think Roy is correct. I don't think this thing will handle huge jumps very well after a couple thousand miles.
You see a lot of old trucks (like Toyota Trucks/4Runners) still out on trails crawling around. I doubt this will be the case with the Raptor after a few big jumps "Baja" style.
Yet again, another failed truck that will most likely see its days cruising the mall parking lots.
I don't think it's a failure but more like a bit of a poser; kinda like the Ram SRT-10 or H-D F-150.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 12:29:02 PM
Toyota's 4.6L and 5.7L V8s, GM's 6.2L V8 and Nissan's 5.6L all use aluminum alloy blocks.
I got bad info from the website I went to that listed the i-Force 5.7 as being cast iron.
Personally I don't see the big deal if it's cast iron in a truck. In a sports car it's a no-no just because of the weight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLCM-L6oni0
lol I heard it bottom out in that first action cut. Right at :29
Still, neat truck. That would be fun to rip down some dirt road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtxiMGA8QRQ&NR=1
Pop Mechanics review.
Quote from: R-inge on August 19, 2009, 02:52:56 PM
lol I heard it bottom out in that first action cut. Right at :29
Still, neat truck. That would be fun to rip down some dirt road.
Yeah, I'm sure it's okay for what it is, but it's not anything extremely special. You'd certainly never be able to drive it like a real baja racer without it self-destructing in very short order.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 03:19:15 PM
Yeah, I'm sure it's okay for what it is, but it's not anything extremely special. You'd certainly never be able to drive it like a real baja racer without it self-destructing in very short order.
You are so full of shit. You don't know anything about this truck, yet you claim to know it's nothing special and it will self-destruct. It is special. There is no other factory built truck on the market that could do anything close to what this truck is capable of.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
You are so full of shit. You don't know anything about this truck, yet you claim to know it's nothing special and it will self-destruct. It is special. There is no other factory built truck on the market that could do anything close to what this truck is capable of.
I would like to see how it holds up with 100k + miles and some hard desert driving and jumping, like what it's meant for.
Plus I don't want to know how much it will cost to replace those Fox shocks...
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
You are so full of shit. You don't know anything about this truck, yet you claim to know it's nothing special and it will self-destruct. It is special. There is no other factory built truck on the market that could do anything close to what this truck is capable of.
It's impressive, sure. But I'd be interested in seeing its longevity over time when driven like that on a regular basis. Oh, and I bet those Fox shocks will be about 2k per corner to replace when you blow them out.
Quote from: R-inge on August 19, 2009, 04:55:15 PM
It's impressive, sure. But I'd be interested in seeing its longevity over time when driven like that on a regular basis. Oh, and I bet those Fox shocks will be about 2k per corner to replace when you blow them out.
They say there's $9000 in shocks.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 01:54:33 PM
I don't think it's a failure but more like a bit of a poser; kinda like the Ram SRT-10 or H-D F-150.
I could see how the Ram SRT-10 is a failure since it had the performance without much towing capacity or payload capacity (though the crew cab 4AT rectified this), but the S/C H-D F-150 was quite quick and could tow too.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 05:15:48 PM
They say there's $9000 in shocks.
Yep, hence my estimate. Yeah, it's a low estimate but I didn't want to blow it completely out of proportion. On most highway-driven trucks the shocks last probably 100k or more. But cars that see more abuse or spend more time on rough roads tend to wear out suspension components more quickly.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
You are so full of shit. You don't know anything about this truck, yet you claim to know it's nothing special and it will self-destruct. It is special. There is no other factory built truck on the market that could do anything close to what this truck is capable of.
Relax - it's not an attack on you; it's just no more special than the Ram SRT10 - somewhat so, but nothing all that outrageous.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 19, 2009, 04:49:00 PM
You are so full of shit. You don't know anything about this truck, yet you claim to know it's nothing special and it will self-destruct. It is special. There is no other factory built truck on the market that could do anything close to what this truck is capable of.
Baja trucks self-destruct all the time in competition. What makes you think a truck that isn't as sturdy as the fell-fledged race trucks would make it through in one piece? :huh:
Quote from: Tave on August 20, 2009, 04:37:47 AM
Baja trucks self-destruct all the time in competition. What makes you think a truck that isn't as sturdy as the fell-fledged race trucks would make it through in one piece? :huh:
Cuz it has a blue oval on it. Duh.
Ford is entering a couple of these trucks in the Baja 1000, so we'll see how they stand up.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 20, 2009, 09:08:09 AM
Ford is entering a couple of these trucks in the Baja 1000, so we'll see how they stand up.
If a VW Beetle can do it, I bet the Raptor can.
The race has a million different classes. I thought we were all talking about the varsity show.
Quote from: Tave on August 20, 2009, 02:27:48 PM
The race has a million different classes. I thought we were all talking about the varsity show.
Yeah, well I sort of was. I question the long term longevity of the vehicle when used as intended however.
Quote from: R-inge on August 20, 2009, 02:32:45 PM
Yeah, well I sort of was. I question the long term longevity of the vehicle when used as intended however.
Well of course you aren't going to be able to desert race the thing for 200,000 problem-free miles. Nothing could do that, including built for the purpose race tracks. But, I'd say 1000 full out miles at Baja will be a pretty good indicator of the truck's durability.
Quote from: TBR on August 20, 2009, 03:37:39 PM
Well of course you aren't going to be able to desert race the thing for 200,000 problem-free miles. Nothing could do that, including built for the purpose race tracks. But, I'd say 1000 full out miles at Baja will be a pretty good indicator of the truck's durability.
Which is apparently on par with a VW Beetle. Are you catching my drift?
BTW, I read in some offroad mag that they already participated and took a podium finish with the truck... there is even a movie out. Maybe I'm confused though because the race runs in November I think...
Quote from: R-inge on August 20, 2009, 04:31:46 PM
BTW, I read in some offroad mag that they already participated and took a podium finish with the truck... there is even a movie out. Maybe I'm confused though because the race runs in November I think...
That's correct--it wasn't the Baja because that hasn't run yet. There are offroad racing organizations in the West, and I think the race was in Nevada. Googling on "Raptor in competition" or "racing Raptor" or some phrase(s) similar to that can probably pull up the name of the race, the organization, and the finishing specifics...
SVT Raptor Captures Podium Finish
The "Terrible's 250" race saw the running of the F150 SVT Raptor R for the second time this season in the Best In The Desert race series. The F150 SVT Raptor R completed the approximately 220-mile loop race in the Nevada desert in 6:08:30.000, finishing 2nd in Class 8000. The F150 SVT Raptor R is currently in 2nd place in Class 8000 after two races in the 2009 season.
As a way of thanking the off-road community for their support of Raptor since its debut, participants and enthusiast spectators were given pricing details of the highly-anticipated 2010 F150 SVT Raptor during the pre-race driver's meeting on Friday, April 17. The 2010 F150 SVT Raptor with a 320-horsepower 5.4-liter V-8 engine will have a MSRP of $38,995 (destination & delivery included) when it arrives in dealer showrooms in summer 2009. An optional all-new 6.2-liter V-8 will start at $41,995 (destination & delivery included) when it becomes available later this winter.
"The F150 SVT Raptor presents a remarkable value for a performance truck of this caliber," said Mark Grueber, Ford Truck Marketing Manager. "Many off-road insiders and enthusiasts were expecting a base MSRP above $50,000 for the amount of unique components, technology, and performance the F150 SVT Raptor offers."
Following the exciting pricing news on Friday night, the F150 SVT Raptor R ran a near-flawless race on Saturday. The team had to replace a new drive shaft that was being tested with an OEM unit during the first lap of the three lap race. After the change was made, there were no other issues with the truck.
Drivers included veteran off-road champions and Baja winners Rob MacCachren and Steve Olliges, and celebrity race driver Linsey Weenk, who normally drives the Built Ford Tough "Blue Thunder" Monster Truck. Linsey's impressive resume consists of 14 wins in the Monster Jam series, winning "Most Improved Driver" in 2006. Linsey's "Blue Thunder" team also took "Team of the Year" honors in 2006 and 2007.
"It was an honor to come out here to drive the Raptor R. I had a great time," said Linsey. He continued, "The truck was great. I'm told it's fairly stock with a few modifications, and for the F150 SVT Raptor to be able to do this, and still be able to tow an RV, that's pretty impressive." Linsey drove in the second of three laps with Rob MacCachren riding as navigator.....
I'm still really impressed with the pricing.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 21, 2009, 12:52:51 PM
I'm still really impressed with the pricing.
Not bad.
Want to bet that "Raptor" and "Raptor-R" are not one and the same?
There's simply no way a stock truck is going to be allowed to enter any sanctioned off-road event.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 21, 2009, 01:33:18 PM
Want to bet that "Raptor" and "Raptor-R" are not one and the same?
There's simply no way a stock truck is going to be allowed to enter any sanctioned off-road event.
Probably at least a roll cage and other safety equipment. I wonder how stock the suspension is though, because that's where it really counts.
I'm sure the extra 180 hp doesn't hurt either.
Prepared for racing in long distance off-road endurance events, the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor R uses stock components of F-150 SVT Raptor, including the transmission, brakes and axles. The frame ? the part of the truck that will take the most stress ? is the same proven fully boxed frame that delivers class-leading towing and hauling in the base F-150. The race truck is powered by a specially calibrated 500 horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 engine.
While the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor has off-road capability that isn't available in any other production vehicle, the F-150 SVT Raptor R adds to that capability with enhancements to prepare it for one of the world's best-known off-road races.
"The race truck has even more suspension travel, better approach and departure angles, more horsepower, more ground clearance, and full racing specification seats, safety cage and harnesses, all of which combine to make an even faster, more visceral off-road experience," said Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief engineer.
So basically, well different from a stock Raptor - like a bit more than Cobra R was to an SVT Cobra...
Quote from: r0tor on August 21, 2009, 01:55:04 PM
Prepared for racing in long distance off-road endurance events, the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor R uses stock components of F-150 SVT Raptor, including the transmission, brakes and axles. The frame ? the part of the truck that will take the most stress ? is the same proven fully boxed frame that delivers class-leading towing and hauling in the base F-150. The race truck is powered by a specially calibrated 500 horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 engine.
While the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor has off-road capability that isn't available in any other production vehicle, the F-150 SVT Raptor R adds to that capability with enhancements to prepare it for one of the world's best-known off-road races.
"The race truck has even more suspension travel, better approach and departure angles, more horsepower, more ground clearance, and full racing specification seats, safety cage and harnesses, all of which combine to make an even faster, more visceral off-road experience," said Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief engineer.
So the engine and suspension are different.
Figures. Still, somebody will think that this is somehow representative of what the showroom stock truck is capable of.
Quote from: R-inge on August 20, 2009, 04:30:57 PM
Which is apparently on par with a VW Beetle. Are you catching my drift?
Not stock ones :huh:
Quote from: TBR on August 21, 2009, 02:27:42 PM
Not stock ones :huh:
I dunno if you've been keeping up with the action, but the Raptor R isn't stock either.
Token :huh:
Quote from: R-inge on August 21, 2009, 02:28:57 PM
I dunno if you've been keeping up with the action, but the Raptor R isn't stock either.
Token :huh:
Well yeah, but the point of your response we didn't know that.
Quote from: TBR on August 21, 2009, 02:33:47 PM
Well yeah, but the point of your response we didn't know that.
My original point was that it's not that big a deal to complete the Baja 1000, and now that we know it's not going to be run with a showroom stock vehicle we know that's all the more true.
I mean don't get me wrong, it's cool that it's doing well in that current racing series. I'd root for it much the same way I'd root for and STI, but that doesn't mean much to me. It's still a prepped race truck.
First Drive: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor [Review]
08/24/2009, 9:03 AMBY ANDREW GANZ
Few red-blooded Americans grew up without at least one Tonka truck gracing their toy box with its presence. These seemingly indestructible steel trucks were perfect for living out kid-size fantasies of high-speed desert romps, rock crawling and mud bogging. Most kids grew up, however, and are now living out their ?rugged? fantasies behind the wheel of a crossover with all the mud credibility of a My Little Pony.
But not Ford?s in-house performance arm, Special Vehicle Team ? better known as SVT. After a fairly quiet couple of years that saw Detroit?s highly-respected factory-backed performance arm crank out only a handful of products, the Dearborn crew started something entirely different: A high-performance, off road racing-oriented Baja 1000-style pickup based on the revised 2009 Ford F-150.
After thousands of miles of desert testing in California?s sun-parched Anza-Borrego National Park, the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor was born.
The Dearborn shocker
With the exception of the now-discontinued GT sports car, Ford?s lineup has long been a paragon of conservative performance, so to say that we were surprised by the Raptor concept is an understatement. How the SVT crew got this one by Ford?s lawyers is anyone?s guess ? we?ll bet that the SVT corporate credit card shows more than a few filling meals at Detroit?s famous Buddy?s Pizza followed up by quite a few (Molson) Canadians. It must have taken a good number of drinks for the legal department to sign off on this project, which is so contradictory to Ford?s efforts at creating a ?green? image.
Not that we mind ? and we don?t think the snakes, lizards and scorpions that call the Anza Borrego Desert home cared either. Ford chose North America?s biggest off-highway vehicle park for both the Raptor?s development and its media introduction and, of course, Leftlane was there.
A Tonka for big kids
Looks alone will undoubtedly sell many Raptors. With its widened stance ? the wheels are about seven inches further apart than a stock F-150, its built-in LED lamps ? to comply with Department of Transportation requirements ? and its optional graphics package, the Raptor screams for attention. A special set of alloy wheels and big 35-inch BFGoodrich All-Terrain tires modified specifically for the Raptor finish off the Baja-ready look.
What those sold on just the style will miss is a tremendous amount technology gleaned from high-speed desert research and development. The SVT engineers created an extensive test course in the desert and, starting with a bog-standard F-150 outfitted essentially with a trip through 4WheelParts, experimented before producing what they believe is the best high-performance factory off-road truck ever. By default, of course, it is the best, since we?re not aware of any other street legal Baja 1000-style effort by another manufacturer.
A thoroughly reengineered suspension is at the heart of the F-150 Raptor. Wheel travel is up substantially to 13.4 inches in the rear and 11.2 inches in the front, but the real excitement is over the Fox Racing Shox shock absorbers. Designed to allow the Raptor to traverse intense terrain, these shocks contain high-altitude commercial jet-style fluid and an internal bypass system to stiffen the shock as it travels to prevent potentially destructive bottoming out.
Finally, in addition to Ford?s first application of hill descent control, there?s an Off Road mode, which calibrates the transmission, stability control and traction control to operate properly at high speed to allow for some slip ? think of it as a track mode for desert roads.
For now, the Raptor shares the same 320 horsepower 5.4-liter Triton V8 known to us in the standard F-150, although the upcoming 6.2-liter Boss V8, with its estimated 400 horsepower and 400 lb-ft. of torque, will arrive in early 2010 as an SVT exclusive ? at least until 2011 when it finds its way under the hood of the standard F-150. We have not driven a Raptor with that powertrain.
Daily drivability
August in the Anza-Borrego Desert isn?t for the faint of heart, with daytime highs tickling 120 degrees when a cold front rolls through. A brief drive from San Diego into the wasteland, or desert oasis, depending on your perspective, revealed a surprisingly docile on-road demeanor for the Raptor. Its extra width and SVT-engineered steering upgrades delivered stable and responsive handling, while thorough noise, vibration and harshness efforts kept things as serene in the Raptor as in the remarkably refined standard F-150.
Inside, you?ll find few changes aside from a panel with four pre-wired auxiliary switches ? aimed at powering additional lights, winches, big screen TVs set up in the bed and the like. An optional $395 interior accent package adds the bright orange trim on the seats, dash and doors for those rather less-than-introverted types. A grippy, SVT-exclusive steering wheel with an orange on-center marker ? if you don?t know what it?s for, the Raptor is not your truck of choice ? rounds out the interior add-ons. Factor in the more bolstered captain?s chairs and the extended cab-only Raptor is one refined Baja 1000 racer.
Desert romping
And a Baja 1000 racer it is. Ford took the initiative of entering a preproduction Raptor in this year?s Baja 1000, the first such effort by an automaker, and wound up taking third place in its class. Not a bad effort for a virtually stock rig.
With the tires aired down to about 25 psi ? and the instrument panel ?low pressure? idiot light illuminated (thanks lawyers!), the Raptor was ready for its romp. Aside from the addition of an electrically locking rear differential, which can be operated at any speed in any of the three transfer case modes, the four-wheel-drive system is the same as you?ll find on any other F-150.
True high-speed desert driving is done in two-wheel-drive, but the Raptor is designed to appeal to buyers in the 45 or so states that lack anything resembling a desert, too, so the four-wheel-drive truck is thus capable of decent mud bogging, wide fire trail running and rock crawling. Its width, which makes a standard F-150 extended cab, short bed model look puny, will be its only real obstacle. Ample wheel travel, communicative rock-crawling steering and the safety net of a rear locker help tremendously. Our only gripe was the open front differential ? SVT tells us that a Torsen-style front differential could make the Ford Racing-engineered options list in the future.
With the aid of an experienced SVT engineer, we piloted the Raptor along a 22-mile sand-covered off-road course in well under 30 minutes. Let?s visit those numbers in more detail: The Raptor helped us go 22 miles in fewer than 30 minutes ? through washes and sand beds, over waterboarded stretches and between gullies. And we?re just amateurs; an experienced desert runner could easily shave several minutes off of our best time.
At speed, the Raptor responds as predictably as a video game. Light flicks of the steering wheel might push the tail out a bit in a sandy corner, but with Off Road mode engaged, the stability control quietly put us back in place. For expert drivers, the stability control can be fully disengaged, but at 70 mph in sand that would stop a camel in its tracks, we were content to leave the system engaged.
Most notable were the Fox Shox for their outstanding performance. Over even the roughest terrain, they filtered out any harshness we might otherwise have encountered, and they simply prevented the Raptor from bottoming out at any attainable speed.
The 5.4-liter Triton engine that seems a little underpowered in street-going F-150s proved more than sufficient in the desert. A specially-tuned exhaust provided a nice growl and the Off Road mode kept the transmission smack dab in the middle of the engine?s torque curve. We can?t imagine wanting more power here for anything other than bragging rights, but we can imagine wanting some sort of shift-it-yer-own-damn-self ability like paddles or at least a separate flick back-and-forth gate for the six-speed automatic.
Leftlane?s bottom line
The Raptor business case was no doubt tough to make, but Ford says that early orders have been brisk. Few, if any, Raptors will be enjoyed in the desert ? due mostly to the lack of desert-like terrain in most of the United States and Canada. In reality, most Raptors, like most high-performance sports cars, will be sold for their credibility and image, rather than their new owners? intention to push them to their limits.
For those not afraid of getting a little dirty, the Raptor performs in spades. Its merits are obvious, its detriments few and far between ? especially for its reasonable $2,500 premium over an equivalent F-150 FX4. Replicating the Raptor?s performance in aftermarket parts would well exceed that figure, especially when you consider the SVT-exclusive Fox Shox. After a day of desert romping, it came as little surprise to hear that the U.S. Border Patrol has already expressed interest in acquiring some Raptors. Watch out!
More than anything, the Raptor helps reinvent SVT for the future. While we don?t want to see the elite group of Ford engineers move away from on-road performance entirely, we appreciate their unique out-of-the-box thinking, not to mention their obvious ability to build a fun and exciting full-size Tonka.
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor base price, $38,995.
Edmunds also has a very positive first drive review:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/FirstDrives/articleId=155646
Nice review. Only problem I saw with it is that they claim the 4wd system is just like other F150s, which doesn't sound right.
Also, I predict future internet bitching from guys who leave the rear locker engaged on pavement and blow them up, a la the Dana rear axles on the Nissan Titan.
Raptor rave from www.jalopnik.com:
Jalopnik Reviews
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor: First Drive
By Wes Siler, 12:00 AM on Mon Aug 24 2009
SVT engineers had a choice: make another Lightning or do something no manufacturer has ever done before ? produce a high-speed off-road super truck. The 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, the fastest off-road vehicle we've ever driven, is the result.
Full Disclosure: Ford wanted us to drive the Raptor so badly they flew me out to San Diego and put me up in a swanky hotel. They also fed me steak one night, then steak fajitas for lunch the next day. It's nice to see that Ford knows how to save money by making the most with leftovers. :lol:
Based on the stock 2009 Ford F-150, the Raptor adds little more than some fancy suspension, fancier electronics and some sporty exterior design. It retains the stock engine, the same 6-speed automatic gearbox (albeit in a less enthusiastic state of tune), the stock frame and a gussied-up stock interior and flared exterior. But oh, what suspension and electronics.
Headlining the changes are the internal triple bypass Fox Racing shocks. Like other off-road suspension packages, they add lots of travel (the total now stands at 11.2" of travel at the front and 12.1" at the rear), but unlike other systems they take radical steps to control that travel with the damping becoming four times stiffer at the end of the shock's travel as it is at the beginning. The initially soft, progressively stiffer damping means the Raptor floats over undulations both off-road and on, but controls that float so there's no bouncing around on the springs.
Drive along at whatever speed, hit a bump and the jolt is absorbed with no further impact on the experience. The suspension compresses to the extent required to clear the obstacle, then extends back to its normal position rather than compressing and extending through a few decreasing cycles like on virtually every other suspension setup.
That control isn't just down to the dampers, the Raptor increases the width of the F-150's track by seven inches, necessitating the use of unique "SVT" stamped upper and lower control arms and the wild new bodywork. The result of that is stability, especially noticeable at high speeds.
Connecting that new suspension to the road are bespoke 35-inch BF Goodrich tires on same-size, but unique-looking, 17-inch wheels. They use the same tread pattern as other BF Goodrich off-road tires, but everything else about them is designed to boost on-road refinement while retaining off-road ability. They're dead quiet even while bouncing off the 100 MPH speed limiter on the road, yet grip rocks and loose sand just like their off-road-only brothers and sisters.
Helping all that out is an "Off-Road" mode button that lets the ABS lock the wheels up at low speeds for more effective braking in the dirt, makes the shift programming and throttle response much more aggressive and backs off the traction and stability control.
That we've just spent five paragraphs describing the fancy suspension and electronics should give you some idea just how special they are. In fact, they transform the F-150 from a practical and luxurious utility truck into the most bitchin' multi-purpose vehicle we've driven all year. It's just a shame about the transmission.
That the Raptor is fast, refined and utterly stable up to its limited top speed belies its true nature as an off-roader. We were initially disappointed in the truck because we couldn't imagine a situation where all this roadability couldn't come at the expense of off-road speed. The thing is, we were wrong.
Designed for high-speed desert running, the SVT engineers didn't find it necessary to sacrifice any rock-crawling or mud-plugging ability. The extra ground clearance, improved approach and departure angles, beefed-up half shafts and other assorted upgrades like the huge SVT-branded aluminum skid plate actually make the Raptor more capable in the slow stuff than the stock F-150. All that truck's off-road aids are retained in the form of super slow-motion hill descent control and locking differentials.
And then you get to the go-fast stuff.
There's plenty of trucks, SUVs or whatever that can competently tackle a boulder. There's none available straight from a show room that are designed to run across the desert at 100 MPH. That's exactly what the Raptor does.
Push the "Off-Road" button, turn off the traction control and engage the rear axle locker in two-high and you're in the unofficial sport mode. This sets you up to tackle the loose surfaces, bumps, jumps and corners of your average desert. Point it down a dry creek bed or across the open desert and hit the gas. Add some corrective steering to overcome that slide and you're good to go. It's like driving your average pickup down a dirt road, only, in the Raptor, you'll be going twice as fast and you don't need that dirt road.
The triple bypass dampers absorb any bump small enough for the Raptor to actually make it over or cushion the landing off just about any jump. You'll find yourself going so fast - we bounced off the 100 MPH limiter without a thought - that when it comes time to steer around that boulder or cliff you won't realize how much you need to slow down until you're right on top of that obstacle. That's ok, because the off-road ABS programming has been tuned so perfectly that it can bring the Raptor to a rapid halt even on loose sand. It does that by allowing a controlled amount of wheel lock at low speeds to build up a berm in front of the tires, but keeps the wheels from locking at higher speeds to retain steering control.
Sadly, even with the more aggressive programming in off-road mode, the transmission will put itself in too high a gear, causing the Raptor to occasionally bog down, spoiling your tail out fun through some slow corners.
We first drove the Raptor over a month ago here in New York and walked away from the experience distinctly underwhelmed. Rather than finding the extreme race-focused off-roader we expected, the Raptor, in city traffic at least, turned out to be a better-riding, taller and more refined version of the stock F-150. The gearbox kept trying to put itself in sixth gear, no matter what the speed, and was then reluctant to kick down. That means it was slow. Really slow.
Unfortunately that gearbox didn't get better between that pre-production truck and this final-spec vehicle. Trying to get some maintenance throttle through the hairpin curves between San Diego and Borrego Springs resulted in either nothing or, with a bit more throttle, a two gear downshift and way too much acceleration. I almost had to drive it like an ?80s turbocharged Saab, hammering the throttle before the apex to ensure that there'd be some acceleration on tap by the time the corner exit appeared.
Ford plans to add a 400 HP/400 Lb-Ft of torque 6.2-liter V8 to the Raptor lineup near the end of this year, but it's going to be equipped with the same shitty gearbox as this 5.4-liter, meaning the extra 90 HP and 10 Lb-Ft will largely be wasted. Some sort of manual override beyond the ability to select first, second or third and the ineffective overdrive off switch is desperately needed, but sadly not planned.
Of course, bitching about the lack of an appropriately tuned gearbox in a 6,000 Lbs, 78.4-inch tall truck is indicative of how satisfying the rest of the experience is. Throw the Raptor into an on-road corner and it heaves way over to the outside, but settles into that position through the rest of the corner. Nothing about its cornering ability is wayward, imprecise or challenging. In fact, its far more able than the stock F-150 and is capable of pulling .83 G on the skidpad, which is nearly as much grip as the stock 2010 Ford Mustang GT. 0-60 takes 8.2 seconds, well, if the gearbox cooperates.
The way to get around the ridiculously awful gearbox is to floor the Raptor down every straight, then slam on the 13.8-inch front, 13.-7-inch rear (same as the stock truck) brakes just before a corner. The front dives towards the ground alarmingly and the tires go "fizzzzz" in protest, but the brakes never fade. Stay on them to just before the apex to quicken the steering then slam on the throttle so that you stand some slim chance of accelerating at some point on the following straight.
Ford's PR team carefully planned a jump free route for us to avoid the liability of inadvertently jostling the pacemakers of geriatric buff book hacks, but we managed to channel our inner hoon and find a good ramp regardless. We hit the four-foot high berm at 80 MPH and caught what felt like serious air, but even that failed to overcome the natural stability and the Raptor's ability to soak up anything thrown at it. It landed perfectly and carried on as if nothing had happened. Even sliding sideways into ruts and bumps near the limited top speed failed to provoke any roll or any sign at all that we could do anything to upset the Raptor.
With the stability control off, things got a bit looser, but were still impressively controlled given the amount of sideways action taking place, while with four high locked in, the same speeds were attainable, albeit with less fun.
We'll have to wait until we try a Raptor in an unsupervised environment to definitively declare that it's impossible to flip or roll one, but on this initial trial that appears to be the case.
The Raptor's performance potential is so unique that we have to look outside the car and truck world to find any serious parallels for its ability. Off-road it performs like a faster, taller KTM race quad bike with its huge slides and go-anywhere high-speed ability. But we've never gotten a quad up to 100 MPH. On road the nearest equivalent would be a supermoto - a dirt bike converted for road use with sticky track tires - it's long travel suspension actually boosts cornering ability over the stock vehicle. But we've never ridden a supermoto this refined.
To put it plainly, the Raptor is the fastest off-road vehicle we've ever driven, yet remains a refined, capable and fun daily commuter or work truck. It's ability to travel at extremely high speeds over rough terrain is utterly unique among stock vehicles. It does all that while only asking a $2,900 premium over the F-150 FX4. In a world of cars and trucks designed only to compete with peers in specific classes and on boring things like fuel economy, trunk volume and stereo spec and in a society beset with oppressive liability concerns, the Raptor sets itself apart by doing something no one else has ever thought was a good idea, was possible within the legal framework of an automobile company or, hell, even possible at all. The 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is fucking awesome.
Netdude, you're going to run out of tissues and lotion what with all this blue oval pr0n running around the interwebs.
R-inge: Yeah, my paper towel budget IS massive.
Smacking down GoCougs misinformation & disinformation (nouns: politically correct terms denoting bullshit and lies) is a dirty job, but somebody's gotta do it :ohyeah:
Looks like it does have a transfer case. There goes that argument.
Looks awesome!
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2009, 12:32:07 PM
Looks like it does have a transfer case. There goes that argument.
???
I've never seen a 4wd vehicle without some sort of transfer case or unit, so what are you trying to say?
Quote from: R-inge on August 24, 2009, 12:32:53 PM
???
I've never seen a 4wd vehicle without some sort of transfer case or unit, so what are you trying to say?
Sorry, that was poorly worded. I meant it has a 2-speed transfer case. Wasn't there a huge bitch fest here about it not supposedly having a low range?
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2009, 12:39:27 PM
Sorry, that was poorly worded. I meant it has a 2-speed transfer case. Wasn't there a huge bitch fest here about it not supposedly having a low range?
Yeah, there was because the initial specs stated there was only one speed in the T-case. Does it have two then, and if so based on what? So far I have read two different reports on the matter, so we need a 3rd source.
The problem is that the Ford website is really vague.
Quote from: R-inge on August 24, 2009, 12:50:45 PM
Yeah, there was because the initial specs stated there was only one speed in the T-case. Does it have two then, and if so based on what? So far I have read two different reports on the matter, so we need a 3rd source.
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/08/2010raptor_firstdrive027.jpg)
That's what I'm going off of. Almost all reviews mention it has an electronically activated 2-speed t-case too.
Wow - just as the review states, standard-functioning A/T is not the way to go - such a vehicle with this pretense needs to be able to positively select (and lock) all gears.
And I have yet to see mention of a 2 sp t-case. If it does have one, it makes sense - Blue Oval fanboys blindly defending the absence of one was comical.
Why does it have trailer brakes? The sand slows you down pretty quickly.
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2009, 01:06:23 PM
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2009/08/2010raptor_firstdrive027.jpg)
That's what I'm going off of. Almost all reviews mention it has an electronically activated 2-speed t-case too.
Frakkin' sweet. Thanks. Pretty much all my complaints about the truck are instantly cleared up with that.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2009, 01:07:53 PM
Wow - just as the review states, standard-functioning A/T is not the way to go - such a vehicle with this pretense needs to be able to positively select (and lock) all gears.
And I have yet to see mention of a 2 sp t-case. If it does have one, it makes sense - Blue Oval fanboys blindly defending the absence of one was comical.
You're just a negative nancy about anything Ford related, aren't you?
That makes sense - everything else is stock on the drive train, even the decidedly non-performance A/T; why spend money to design only a single speed t-case???
Quote from: MrH on August 24, 2009, 01:22:03 PM
You're just a negative nancy about anything Ford related, aren't you?
Um, that review utterly trashed "the ridiculously awful gearbox." I was merely parroting it, with implied off-road experience of my own...
Raptor rapture, AutoBlog version: a 997 for the dirt? Check out their website--lotsa chassis pics and component pics the Nethead here did not see in the articles on other sites:
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/08/24/first-drive-2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-is-a-diamond-on-the-roug/
First Drive: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is a diamond on the rough
by Jonathon Ramsey (RSS feed) on Aug 24th 2009 at 11:58AM
Although some of us have an unabashed love for all-things off-road, the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor didn't register a huge blip on our collective radar. We figured it would be a performance kit that was much more kit than performance, or an off-road wunderkind that makes life a Hobbesian kind of brutish when used anywhere but the moon. We spent two days in Southern California, one of which in the Raptor's Anza Borrego Desert birthplace, to discover one thing: We were wrong. The Raptor is all that. And a bag of chips. And dessert.
A few years ago, some of the gents at SVT decided to try their expertise on a truck that would put their particular brand of oomph on the dirt instead of on the streets. Incredibly, there were other SVT gents who weren't so keen on the idea, thinking an SVT joint is a tarmac performance vehicle, not a... truck. Yet in 2006, Ford marketing data pointed to the ascent of off-road performance as a consideration for people buying pickups, with street performance as the end-all on the decline. Thankfully, for anyone who likes bombing the dirt on four wheels, the first group of gents won. What they've given us is the Raptor, and it is terrific.
The Raptor is a clean-sheet truck. The SVT engineers wrote down what they wanted, then they took other trucks out to benchmark them. Then, according to SVT, they broke all those other trucks and still hadn't experienced anything like what they wanted. So they took their specifications list to outside suppliers, like their axle maker, Fox and BF Goodrich. And those outside suppliers laughed at them. When the SVT engineers didn't laugh, the outside suppliers said "Oh, wait ? you're serious?" And then everyone got to work.
Comparing the Raptor to an F-150 is nearly useless. Built at the F-150's production center, the Raptor rides on a chassis seven inches wider than its donor sibling, and according to one SVT fellow, "It just barely fits down the line." But comparing the Raptor to an F-150 is nearly useless. It makes far more sense to look at the Raptor as what an F-150 would be if it were the most intense off-road retail truck imaginable.
The Raptor's bed box is from the F-150, but the rear outer box is unique, as is everything forward of the A-pillar. It rides on a widened version of the F-150 frame, and the suspension points match the F-150, but some tweaks were made to the mounting of a variety of parts, including the shock mounting bolts that were moved to make clearance for the suspension travel. Mounted to those rails are a suite of beefy, highly engineered components: aluminum squeeze-cast control rods, rear axle tube shafts that are thicker and of a higher grade steel than on Super Duty trucks, upgraded hydro-mounts for the engine, microcellular jounce bumpers, high-strength steel for the rear lower shock mounts and more heat shields.
To top it off there's a unique skid plate package and a full-sized spare hanging out back. The spare is black, not grey like the standard wheels, because of the government mandate on non-TPMS-fitted wheels. Outside, the running boards are cast aluminum and coated in a Rhinoliner-like material, and they flex instead of bending irretrievably.
The wheels are 17-inches in diameter, and SVT didn't want to go any bigger because they wanted the tallest possible sidewalls for the 35-inch BF Goodrich All Terrain tires. Those BFGs, while made in the same molds -- and carrying the same tread pattern -- as traditional BFGs, have a unique compound. SVT found that the standard compound didn't work well in mud and snow, which would be a huge obstacle to Midwestern buyers (and the Michigan-based SVT workers themselves), so they worked with BFG and changed the thickness, belt angle, and compound to create a tire that could handle actual seasons and not make a lot of noise while doing it. With all that, the tires are just $200 each to replace.
Inside, it's mammoth. The seats are custom, more highly bolstered to attend to off-road jostling, but the cabin is large enough for a whale pod. The orange trim is unique, and the steering wheel gets an orange center mark to keep you apprised of what's happening up front. There are also auxiliary switches included so you don't have to patch-job them in when you want to add two light bars.
The Raptor only comes in four colors: orange, black, white and blue. The orange-accented interior trim is available as an option on the orange and black exterior-colored versions. Otherwise you get a gray metallic treatment, which we liked just because we're low-key like that, but the orange isn't bad. For the outside, we prefer black. The Raptor is a machine of function, and like most such things, it isn't, to our eyes, a looker. It is cool and awesome and badass and all that ? it just isn't the most handsome thing around.
The Raptor rides 9.8 inches high, and because it's seven inches wider, the DOT mandates that it have marker lights. The two out back are red and on the rear fenders; in front the amber array sits atop the grille.
It took about 20 minutes of driving on the roads for us to figure out the urban-route Raptor: it's an F-150. The additional hours we spent behind the wheel on highways, B-roads and serpentine mountainside roads didn't change our minds. With 320 hp and 390 lb-ft from the 5.4-liter, three-valve SOHC engine working through a six-speed transmission, the truck has decent pace. Weighing in at 5,863 pounds, the engine has to put in some effort when you want quick maneuvers, but again, it just feels like a truck.
On the outside, though, it does sound very good. Hit the gas and it roars like a modded truck. On the other hand, inside all you'll get is the sound of a regular F-150.
Of course, that's also meant to be part of the triumph of the Raptor -- it drives like an F-150, not like a desert-eating monster. Even though it's huge inside, from behind the wheel it doesn't feel seven inches wider. Stopping at a 7-11 for coffee, we didn't notice the extra width when pulling in between two cars. The BF Goodrich tires don't roar. The suspension, especially that foot of travel out back, does well on roads ? you don't float, nor do you get your brains beaten out by stiffness. On those serpentine roads it understeers pretty quickly if you decide to put it to the test, but again, it's a three-ton truck. There's a bit of bustle out back with an empty bed and rough roads, however the big brakes never cried for mercy and were reassuring at keeping everything under control.
It was the off-road portion of the event where we discovered equal parts praise and lament for the Raptor. The off-road vehicle ecosystem, as with every other, is changing; more vehicles can go more places more easily. The profusion of off-road driving aids means that much of the time, all you need do to tackle a tricky bit of trail is stay alive and steer. What used to require getting out, manually locking hubs, shifting gears and transfer cases, and then paying minute attention to line and throttle is now addressed with the flick of a knob and the common sense to put your coffee back in the cupholder.
Allow us the latitude to compare the Raptor to the Porsche 997. Twenty-five years ago, if you could pilot your 911 in serious anger ? heaven forbid it was a turbo ? over a snaking bit of road with which you weren't familiar and not end up ass-end forward, you had done something. Now a guy in an automatic 997 could do that same stretch of road faster while making dinner reservations and changing his XM presets and, Gott in Himmel, braking mid-corner. The scale of progress and the ability for Mr. Average to do what were once momentous things is impressive. The loss of that former frightening thrill does make us lament just the teensiest, tiniest bit.
After a day kicking up all kinds of Anza Borrego dust, the Raptor is to those previous modes of high-speed off-road running what the 997 is to the classic 911. What's more, it is to other hardcore off-road trucks what the 997 is to other sports cars. Yes, we said it. And we've spent a week debating and thinking about it. That's our finding.
The Raptor's central function is to travel quickly over the desert, and it does that brilliantly. Our tiny bit of nostalgia for those earlier days resides in the fact that if you haven't ripped through the desert in a truck devoid of aids, like an old Trooper or CJ-5, you'd have little idea of just what you were doing ? rather, of just how much the Raptor was doing for you. Point the Raptor, hit the gas. Grab a cool drink at the end of the drive.
All right, so it's not exactly that mindless, but close enough when compared to How it Used to Be in the Olden Days. The Raptor's packing 11.2 inches of travel in front, 12.1 in back. Massive credit for how that travel is used has to go to the engineer at Fox who came up with a set of triple interior-bypass shocks that keep the truck balanced while the wheels do what they need to do. The three-stage shocks get progressively firmer, and also rebound progressively; combined with the generous suspension travel, the shocks have a wide enough window to firm up and release without hitting the proverbial wall of stiffness. The result means that you don't bounce around the way you would expect ? you just ride over rough roads, you aren't being pelted. We were told that the oil alone in the Fox shock costs more than another complete shock assembly.
The most common wish was for more power. That's coming in the form of the SOHC, dual VVT 6.2-liter V8 at the end of this year.Again, that shock and suspension setup works both ways, which is really what makes it where the Raptor's Wizard of Oz lives. Get a wheel, or all of them, off the ground and they don't just shoot back to the end of their travel. They progressively return. In high-amplitude situations, the wheels aren't being utterly victimized by two forces at once: rapid and extreme rebound crashing up against forceful compression.
The desert doesn't present a single terrain: berms, washboard, silt beds, dunes, rocks, ruts and holes all mix it up together. There are some fantastic vehicles that are very good for a number of those terrains. And to be honest, most trucks out there could cover all the ground we covered. A Wrangler Rubicon would be hideous overkill if you just wanted to cover terra firma. But none of them, at least none that we've been in, could do what the Raptor does as quickly and as comfortably as we did it. Held back so that we wouldn't hurt ourselves, we did whoop-de-doos at 35-40 mph. Given a hot lap with one of the Raptor test drivers, we were doing them at 60-65 mph and above. In Baja you'd want a buggy for that kind of work.
But then you'd be in the hurt when it came to beds of sand and the wide-open stretches. No such word as "hurt" exists for the Raptor. Sand was a laugh. Open stretches were invitations to see how fast your SVT co-pilot would let you go. On that hot lap we did 100 mph more than once. And it was exciting, sure ? but it felt about as difficult as drinking tea. That's how good the Raptor is.
And we spent the entire day in two-wheel-drive.
Beyond that there were two features of the truck that stuck out. There are several different settings for the Off-Road Mode that works in conjunction with AdvanceTrac and ABS. You can't turn the ABS off, but there is an off-road setting for the ABS. Press the Off-Road button, and the throttle mapping and transmission programs are recalibrated. Press the AdvanceTrac button after that, and you get an Off-Road Sport mode that tells the Raptor you need some latitude when it comes to wheelspin, sliding and braking. The difference stood out most in the sand, when the truck let you slide around more, yet unlike some other off-road systems we've sampled, it didn't just cut power if it decided you needed help. There are vehicles out there that force you to make a devil's bargain between maintaining a conservative line or getting bogged down in the sand by the supposed driver's aids. The Raptor does not.
The ABS braking is also altered slightly. It relaxes a bit so that when you make a hard stop, the wheels will lock up some and allow sand to build up in front of them, shortening the braking distance.
The other feature we noted was Hill Descent. The same as on the F-150, it offers the kind of control we like. As opposed to a set speed or speeds, you control how fast you go, up to 20 mph. Once you let off the gas the Raptor holds that speed. If you hit the accelerator again, the Raptor holds that new speed. Hit the brake, the Raptor then holds that speed.
Keeping in mind what the Raptor is ? an F-150 ? it is hard to find anything wrong with it. The most common wish was for more power. That's coming in the form of the SOHC, dual VVT 6.2-liter V8 at the end of this year. The jump to 400 hp and 400 lb-ft (both numbers are estimates for now) will give the Raptor a welcome dose of dig-deep power. Still, the request for more grunt was usually phrased as "It could use more power," or "I'd like the 6.2," but we never heard it put "It needs more power." The 5.4 is better than fine; the 6.2 will be simply better.
It is so much more than Built Ford Tough. It's Built Raptor Good.We'd also like to see some grab handles over all the windows, including the folks in back. There's a handle on the A-pillar for the passenger, but that's it. The steering wheel, while great to grab, is huge. It's an F-150 wheel, wrapped in two different coverings, and it's fine enough, but we'd fit something a little smaller.
When we asked some SVT folks what they would do if they were going to take the Raptor up a step, the only thing mentioned was installing a limited-slip diff in front. Of course, they're happy with the setup as is, but if you were looking for a modification, that's all anyone in-house could recommend.
The Raptor was designed in and for the Anza Borrego terrain. The truck performed beautifully, but after three years of constant testing over the same courses we drove, the only surprise would be if it didn't do well. We want to get a Raptor in some other desert elements, and in some situations that it wasn't purpose-built for, slow off-road environments like rock crawling and mud. Then we'll see where the Raptor really stands.
Nevertheless, there is one final Raptor feature that inclines us to think that as long as it's at least capable in other environments, there is nothing else that can beat it as a comprehensive vehicle: the price. The 5.4-liter Raptor starts at $38,995, which includes the destination charge. The coming 6.2-liter adds a few grand more at $41,995. If you built up a truck yourself to Raptor specs it would be tough to match those numbers, and then you wouldn't get the expertise of teams of engineers making sure it all works together properly, nor the warranty that comes with it. For $39K you get an F-150 with a 1,000-pound payload capacity and 6,000-pound towing capacity that doubles as a beginner's guide to trophy truck driving ? but still acts like an F-150.
The Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is so much more than merely Built Ford Tough. It's Built Raptor Good. And for that, we applaud them-and shed a tear and tip a glass to The Good Old Days...
Love this truck. So badass, and so antisocial. As mentioned on another board...
"Does anybody else see this as Ford's way of LOLing at ChryCo and GM?
Ford:
"Yes, We Can. And We Did. Bitches." and
"Can't make things like this with that bailout money, now can you?"And the ad some proposed (with Dennis Leary narrating)
"Ford brings the Raptor to the 'Ring. There's a GT-R and a GT3 in the pits. The Germans and Japanese are making snide remarks and laughing disdainfully. They lay patches, and screech off down the track. The Raptor driver gets in, checks his teeth in the mirror, cracks his neck, and then cranks it up to about 75 - then swerves off the track into the woods with no loss in speed, bombing through bushes and creeks, cuts across the whole course, yumps over the armco onto the track, and lumbers across the finish line ahead of the GT-R and GT3. Scene cuts to cursing, red-faced German engineers. Fin."
How fast does it go around the Ring?
It doesn't go around... it goes over.
Poseur truck? failure? Way off base.
(http://www.beyond.ca/i/ford-raptor-underside.jpg)
(http://image.automobilemag.com/f/10761913+w750+st0/0811_09z+2010_ford_F150_raptor+undercarriage.jpg)
(http://image.automobilemag.com/f/10761919+w750+st0/0811_11z+2010_ford_F150_raptor+lower_a_arm_suspension.jpg)
(http://images.myride.com/images/vehicle/2010/Ford/F-150/oem/2010_Ford_F-150_Raptor_SVT_30_(768x576).jpg)
QuoteProvides a staggering level of capability that doesn't make any compromises on pavement; a benchmark truck.
...
Green is in, and the Raptor allows us to explore all those far-flung places we're preserving without needing to pave them first. Share this logic with the Prius weenie that's giving you the stink eye and watch his head explode.
QuoteAll this hardware makes for very high handling limits off road, and we quickly learned that owners will need to build up the skill?and bravado?to make the most of it. Because of the inherent nature of the bypass shocks, the Raptor actually seemed to ride smoother the faster we hit obstacles; hold back or stab the brakes and the front end would compress violently over whoops.
QuoteFor example, the Raptor's electronic locking rear differential (E-locker) engages at all speeds, in any mode from 2HI to 4LO, with a simple pull of the drive-selector knob. Clicking the Raptor into Off-Road mode initiates a unique, higher-performance throttle map and shift schedule for the six-speed transmission. The result: more aggressive shifting with revs held longer and the flickability of a prerunner with the traction of a 4x4. Hill Descent Control, a Raptor exclusive, utilizes the ABS actuators and allows for slow-speed downhill crawling in forward and reverse, without ever touching the brake pedal.
QuoteThe Raptor can do things we didn?t think were possible in a factory pickup. We don?t really know or care how it was given the OK by Ford?s attorneys. The fact is, it?s available now and it?s virtually perfect for the application for which it?s built. We?re just happy Ford?s legal eagles must like their Raptor as much as we do.
The more I read about this truck the more I want it. I still can't believe the price though. It's downright cheap for what you get.
Quote from: HEMI666 on August 24, 2009, 02:48:14 PM
The more I read about this truck the more I want it. I still can't believe the price though. It's downright cheap for what you get.
Yep.
Quote from: ChrisV on August 24, 2009, 02:16:59 PM
Love this truck. So badass, and so antisocial. As mentioned on another board...
"Does anybody else see this as Ford's way of LOLing at ChryCo and GM?
Ford: "Yes, We Can. And We Did. Bitches." and "Can't make things like this with that bailout money, now can you?"
Na - this was in development before any talk of bailouts hit the scene...
Quote from: GoCougs on August 24, 2009, 04:09:06 PM
Na - this was in development before any talk of bailouts hit the scene...
Yeah, but actually
building it at this point, rather than canceling it, says kind of the same thing... ;)
Quote from: ChrisV on August 24, 2009, 04:26:32 PM
Yeah, but actually building it at this point, rather than canceling it, says kind of the same thing... ;)
And the Corvette ZR1 and to a lesser extent the Challenger SRT-8 aren't along the same lines?
i likes black...
i'd consider getting one over a wrx, but then i'd be a complete poser since i have no idea where i could even attempt offroading
Quote from: r0tor on August 24, 2009, 05:36:46 PM
i likes black...
i'd consider getting one over a wrx, but then i'd be a complete poser since i have no idea where i could even attempt offroading
Move west young man...
Nice truck, great price, with better still to come. Mercifully, the decals are optional. No wonder this year's production is already sold out!
Even AOL :confused: has gotten into Raptormania:
We Test Drive The 2010 Ford SVT Raptor
Ford's SVT Raptor Is All Business
by Rex Roy | AOL Autos
Chevrolet Silverado HDs are made for towing and hauling. HUMMERs are made for off-roading. But what's the purpose of the new 2010 Ford SVT Raptor? Is this just a plain F-150 with a fru-fru trim package made up of big wheels and a stick-on graphics package? Or could this the world's newest super truck?
Those who know trucks will recognize these models that qualify as past honorees of the super truck world: Dodge's Little Red Express, the Chevy Silverado SS 454, the GMC Syclone, the Dodge Ram SRT/10, or two generations of Ford's F-150 Lightning. These trucks oozed performance, and all delivered with a ferocity that would leave most muscle cars in their dust.
But the 2010 Ford SVT Raptor doesn't look anything like these aforementioned super trucks. These were mostly hunkered-down trucks with low-profile tires, and dropped suspensions. They delivered optimal performance on pavement.
Gallery: The 2010 Ford SVT RaptorIn contrast, the Raptor's body sits high, perched on aggressive off-road tires that would just as soon pummel asphalt in pea-size pebbles than roll smoothly over it. But does this truck deliver what its looks promise?
Ford Builds A Desert Racer
While every past super truck was designed for driving on paved roads and tracks, the SVT Raptor promises to literally fly across the surface of the desert. What would motivate Ford Motor Company to introduce such a different kind of super truck?
The answer is threefold. The first is that high-performance trucks attract attention to the entire line of F-Series trucks. Ford's marketing people like this. A second reason is that Ford employs engineers who genuinely love performance. Those engineers aren't shy about offering up ideas on what's they'd like to see in Ford showrooms. The third is that hi-po street trucks have been done before. Ford didn't want to simply microwave warm up an old idea.
Taken all together, these points formed a rationale that helped point Ford toward a new kind of high-performance truck.
Ford's collection of speed-crazed engineers goes by the name of SVT (Special Vehicle Team). This group was responsible for past Lighting pickup trucks, as well as the Ford GT supercar, and the recently released Shelby GT500 Mustang.
The face of SVT is their chief engineer, Jamal Hameedi. He said, "We saw where the truck market was going, and doing another high-performance street truck wasn't the best idea. We needed to do something original, and we wanted something that a different owner segment of the trucking world would appreciate." SVT decided to focus on the fans and participants of desert racing.
Racing trucks, dune buggies, and ATVs through the desert is a popular activity in the Southwest. Off-road races are common in California and Nevada, as well as on Mexico's Baja peninsula. Plus, these states have hundreds of thousands of acres of public land that are open to off-road recreational vehicles. Like a racetrack is for a Shelby GT500, these areas provide a safe place let vehicles like the Raptor stretch their legs.
Raptor's Talons
Manufacturers have offered off-road packages on their trucks for decades. Equipment usually includes skid plates, bigger tires, differently calibrated dampers (shock absorbers and/or struts), and maybe some extra driveline cooling. Packages like these often improve low-speed off-roading capabilities, but compromise higher-speed on-road driving with mushy steering response and a floppy, unpleasant ride.
SVT went much farther with their Raptor. The team's goal was to create a truck that could be driven off road like a Baja pre-race runner while retaining a civil on-road ride. It also had to pass durability tests so that it could carry a full Ford warranty.
Suspension travel is key to running fast in the desert. The Raptor has approximately 50-percent more travel than a standard 4x4 pickup. To achieve wheel travel of 11.2 inches in front and 12.1 inches at the rear, Ford widened the track of the base F-150 Super Cab by seven inches. This allowed for greater articulation with stock suspension pick-up points. As proof of the standard F-150's toughness, the stock frame could more than handle the added stresses, so it remains unchanged.
Ford tapped an aftermarket supplier to help with the design of the Raptor's shock absorbers. FOX Racing Shox engineered and produces the ultra-heavy-duty shocks for the Raptor that look like something built for NASA. These special shocks can absorb huge inputs (like the truck going over riverbeds at 80 mph) without letting the wheels smash into the body. A good thing, to be sure.
Huge BF Goodrich TA/KO 315/70 35-inch tires surround 17-inch alloy wheels. The tires feature a special tread compound and pattern that provides impressive grip and surprisingly great road feel, a completely unexpected combination.
Underbody armor is standard, with a substantial skid plate up front, plus a second unit under the transfer case. Other special hardware includes an electronically locking rear differential, a seriously recalibrated stability control program (with special controls for off-road driving), and practical hill decent control that makes going down steep grades much safer.
The New Wrapper
A nearly all-new body wraps around the Raptor's wider stance; a full eight inches wider than a base F-150. At 86.3-inches, it nearly matches the width of HUMMER H1, and requires additional marker lights to comply with DOT regulations. The front fenders and hood are made from sheet-molded compound (a plastic polymer), as are the rear fenders.
The semi-Frenched headlights showcase the truck's width, which it wears well. The big FORD grill even looks reasonable in this setting. The headlights, however, are stock F-150 units.
Inside, the excellent front seats that were new on the 2009 F-150 provide even more comfort and lateral support. Bigger bolsters work to keep you in your place whether you're shooting off-ramps or dry riverbeds. Lots of interior choice keeps things interesting, including orange appliqu?s and special SVT gauges. Room in the rear of the extended cab isn't huge, but it's adequate for shorter trips or for carrying extra gear.
The trickest interior piece is the leather-wrapped steering wheel with the red stripe at twelve-o'clock high. This visual is especially helpful when off-roading because it tells you when your front wheels are pointed straight.
Being that it is an F-150, all of Ford's modern electronic gadgets are available, including SYNC and a full-featured navigation system with Sirius Travel Link. This system provides real-time reporting of local gas prices, sports scores and more, plus the ability to view local weather and instant weather radar maps.
On-Road
At first glance, the SVT Raptor looks to be an alternative to the formidable HUMMER H3T. The HUMMER is a great off-road truck in the traditional sense. At a walking pace, the H3T can conquer almost any obstacle. But on the road, the H3T is largely unpleasant to drive. The steering is slow and the suspension feels rubbery.
The SVT Raptor is nothing like the H3T on the road. Surprisingly, it drives smaller than its huge size would suggest. The engine is Ford's familiar 5.4-liter Triton V-8. Short 4.10 gears put the engine's 310 horsepower to good use, so the Raptor feels ready to strike even in city environs.
A 400-horsepower 6.2-liter V-8 is coming sometime after the New Year. While the standard Triton isn't slow, the Raptor would feel even better with more power. Weighing in at a substantial 5,863 lbs., the Raptor can use every horsepower it can get. The transmission backing either engine is a six-speed automatic with paddle shifters.
In town, the ride is surprisingly comfortable, but it's on the highway and two-lanes where the SVT's engineering magic becomes more evident. Trucks aren?t known for their sport-car like handling?and the Raptor is no sport car? but it can be enthusiastically tossed into corners with satisfying results.
Also important to everyday driving is the noise of the big BFGs. They're as quiet as a standard on-road truck tire, which given their huge size and aggressive tread pattern, comes most unexpectedly.
Our only significant complaint about the Raptor's on-road ride comes with this type of pickup body style. The wide body-side opening (for the front and rear doors) and wheelbase (shorter than the limousine-like crew cabs) can't fully eliminate giggly ride motions. On some road surfaces, they get annoying.
Off-Road
If you've ever driven a car or truck on a gravel road and encountered a washboard surface, your vehicle turns into a virtual paint shaker. If you drive fast enough for long enough, the suspension will literally fail because the shocks or struts overheat. Vibrations transmitted through the suspension to the body may also cause parts to actually fall off
Now, take this experience and mentally map it up by a factor of 100, and you can begin to approximate what it's like driving through the desert at over 80 mph. Nothing can prepare your mind for the physical experience ? not even a really good video game.
Ford's demonstration course for the automotive press ran through public land set aside for vehicular recreational use in Southern California's Borrego desert. Our high-speed "track" traversed a 22-mile loop of dry riverbeds and flats with surfaces ranging from loose silt to hard-packed sand.
Beyond absorbing whoopties and all manner of surface elevation changes, the Raptor's suspension proved its mettle several times in big ways. The one that sticks in your author's memory was when he missed a turn on the course. The error, steering correction, and resulting power slide put the tires on a 45? collision course with a substantial ridge created by a recent storm runoff. I braced for the impact and quickly wondered how many times the truck would barrel roll after the tires were knocked off the handsome aluminum rims.
My navigator and I felt the impact. The Raptor couldn't have cared less. The tires and suspension absorbed the shunt with no change in direction or upset to the chassis. The truck seemed to skate over the ridge.
Conclusions
Attempting anything like what we did in the Raptor with a normal four-wheel drive truck would be stupid. Its suspension would beat itself to pieces and major driveline components would spin themselves into tangled masses.
Ford's Special Vehicle Team succeeded in creating a truck that is unique in market. While it may be aimed at desert racers, the Raptor's style and performance will likely lure buyers from other markets, especially where there is snow and/or frozen lakes to run on.
The base SVT Raptor starts at $39,000, just $2500 more than a similarly equipped F-150 SX4 that doesn't have nearly the same off-road capabilities or style. Plus, the Raptor can still tow 6,000 lbs., so none of a regular F-150's practical capacities are compromised.
While not a new-generation Ford Lightning, the 2010 SVT Raptor certainly earned its way into the ranks of the super trucks.
Quote from: GoCougs on August 19, 2009, 12:29:02 PM
Toyota's 4.6L and 5.7L V8s, GM's 6.2L V8 and Nissan's 5.6L all use aluminum alloy blocks.
Yet none of them can do anything close to what the Raptor can do with strictly OEM equipment. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
Quote from: Nethead on September 18, 2009, 10:44:34 AM
Yet none of them can do anything close to what the Raptor can do with strictly OEM equipment. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
lol, come on. Except for the suspension there is absolutely nothing special about the truck, as much as I like it. I'd put the Titan against it off-road, personally, and expect a fairly equal outcome.
Quote from: R-inge on September 18, 2009, 10:56:51 AM
lol, come on. Except for the suspension there is absolutely nothing special about the truck, as much as I like it. I'd put the Titan against it off-road, personally, and expect a fairly equal outcome.
R-inge: A Titan V8 would be the vehicle of choice if you had to offroad race against a Raptor--and you couldn't drive a Raptor yourself. However, if it's required that you compete strictly with a totally-OEM-equipped vehicle, you're facing long, long odds...
Likely, there'll be comparos fairly soon, and the capabilities of the Raptor will acquit themselves well. If anyone will provide their truck/ORV for a comparo with a Raptor...
Quote from: Nethead on September 18, 2009, 10:44:34 AM
Yet none of them can do anything close to what the Raptor can do with strictly OEM equipment. NOT. EVEN. CLOSE.
Um, except make the Raptor look like it's stuck in reverse owing to that archaic 5.4L...
Quote from: GoCougs on September 18, 2009, 11:32:22 PM
Um, except make the Raptor look like it's stuck in reverse owing to that archaic 5.4L...
A man who sucks off the pushrods and the mere sixteen valves in a Camaro SS V8 has the effrontery to call a 5.4L "archaic"??
"Stupid" is far too lame a term to describe you, BlowCougs...Come on, 'fess up, do you work for Chevrolet? That would explain a lot of the Camaro's failures...
Quote from: Nethead on September 19, 2009, 12:48:50 AM
A man who sucks off the pushrods and the mere sixteen valves in a Camaro SS V8 has the effrontery to call a 5.4L "archaic"??
"Stupid" is far too lame a term to describe you, BlowCougs...Come on, 'fess up, do you work for Chevrolet? That would explain a lot of the Camaro's failures...
If the 5.4L really lived up to its promise it wouldn't need a blower to clear 400hp.
It's not a bad motor, but it's gutless. Sorry man.
Quote from: R-inge on September 19, 2009, 07:49:06 AM
If the 5.4L really lived up to its promise it wouldn't need a blower to clear 400hp.
It's not a bad motor, but it's gutless. Sorry man.
Yeah, Ford's Modular IMO is one of the worst engine design stewardships in all of automobiledom.
Circa 1997 - Dodge and GM are slugging it out with ancient dinosaurs from the '60s, Ford debuts a modern OHC V8 in a major coup to become the absolute leader in engine development.
Circa 2009 - Ford has done very little with the Modular while the ancient dinosaurs from Dodge and GM have been replaced with superior pushrod engines that simply embarrass the Modular - and let's not forget the Japanese too have long since passed the Modular.
Quote from: R-inge on September 19, 2009, 07:49:06 AM
If the 5.4L really lived up to its promise it wouldn't need a blower to clear 400hp.
It's not a bad motor, but it's gutless. Sorry man.
I guess the Nissan 5.6 and Toyota 5.7 are also gutless since they do not put out over 400 hp.
The 5.4 has never really found its way into a performance car other than the GT500 and the low volume 2000 Cobra R where it was nearly 400 hp in NA form.
At any rate the Aussie 5.4 DOHC does hit well over 400 hp NA, its doesn't take great engineering to get a DOHC 5.4 over 400 NA these days just a some revs and VVT.
2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT, 4-valve DOHC, 422 hp (315 kW) and 406.5 lb?ft (551 N?m)
Quote from: GoCougs on September 19, 2009, 08:31:04 AM
Yeah, Ford's Modular IMO is one of the worst engine design stewardships in all of automobiledom.
Circa 1997 - Dodge and GM are slugging it out with ancient dinosaurs from the '60s, Ford debuts a modern OHC V8 in a major coup to become the absolute leader in engine development.
Circa 2009 - Ford has done very little with the Modular while the ancient dinosaurs from Dodge and GM have been replaced with superior pushrod engines that simply embarrass the Modular - and let's not forget the Japanese too have long since passed the Modular.
Truthfully, you are right, they threw away the 4V 4.6 and 5.4 for all intents and purposes in the early to mid 2000s. Instead they brought out lighter 3V engines with variable valve timing that matched previous 4V ouput.
I guess this was cheaper, had they used the vvt in the 4V they would have been leading the hp wars.
When it is all said and done, the business decisions was probably sound, F-150s and mustangs and other mod motor cars didn't have sales issues and at the end of the day they didn't take a govt handoff from chairman obama.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 19, 2009, 01:44:23 PM
Truthfully, you are right, they threw away the 4V 4.6 and 5.4 for all intents and purposes in the early to mid 2000s. Instead they brought out lighter 3V engines with variable valve timing that matched previous 4V ouput.
I guess this was cheaper, had they used the vvt in the 4V they would have been leading the hp wars.
When it is all said and done, the business decisions was probably sound, F-150s and mustangs and other mod motor cars didn't have sales issues and at the end of the day they didn't take a govt handoff from chairman obama.
Now, the DOHCs with independent VVT will return in a year in 5.0L displacement :ohyeah:. And it takes the sophistication yet a step further. It's all good. Meanwhile, GM still preaches "Why make 'em better when you can still make 'em bigger?" :lol:
The times, they are a-changin'...some are preparing for it, others are thinkin' a $40,000 plug-in will save their asses from extinction :tounge:. Or a third Bail-Out... :facepalm:
Quote from: SVT32V on September 19, 2009, 01:39:24 PM
I guess the Nissan 5.6 and Toyota 5.7 are also gutless since they do not put out over 400 hp.
The 5.4 has never really found its way into a performance car other than the GT500 and the low volume 2000 Cobra R where it was nearly 400 hp in NA form.
At any rate the Aussie 5.4 DOHC does hit well over 400 hp NA, its doesn't take great engineering to get a DOHC 5.4 over 400 NA these days just a some revs and VVT.
2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT, 4-valve DOHC, 422 hp (315 kW) and 406.5 lb?ft (551 N?m)
The sin isn't that Ford
can't, it's that Ford
didn't.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 19, 2009, 01:39:24 PM
I guess the Nissan 5.6 and Toyota 5.7 are also gutless since they do not put out over 400 hp.
The 5.4 has never really found its way into a performance car other than the GT500 and the low volume 2000 Cobra R where it was nearly 400 hp in NA form.
At any rate the Aussie 5.4 DOHC does hit well over 400 hp NA, its doesn't take great engineering to get a DOHC 5.4 over 400 NA these days just a some revs and VVT.
2008 Ford Falcon FPV GT, 4-valve DOHC, 422 hp (315 kW) and 406.5 lb?ft (551 N?m)
Alright, so Ford has one NA V8 capable of over 400hp. :clap:
For the record, neither Nissan nor Toyota developed their V8s for anything other than truck duty, which you know full well has a different purpose than a sports car motor. Don't be a fanboy man.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 18, 2009, 11:32:22 PM
Um, except make the Raptor look like it's stuck in reverse owing to that archaic 5.4L...
Only on pavement and in a straight line.
First Drive: 2010 Ford F150 SVT Raptor
What do you get when a bunch of hot-rod guys build an off-road-racing truck? No Compromises, No Competition
By Edward Loh
Photography by Brian Vance
"I mean, this is amazing, right?" shouts SVT Vehicle Dynamics engineer, Ford Tier 3-certified test driver, and possible asylum candidate Gene Martindale over the din of 35-inch tires pulverizing desert gravel.
Amazing? No, this is utterly ridiculous. It's 106 degrees F, and we're streaking across the rock- and sand-strewn frying pan that is Borrego Springs, California, in August. It's absolutely miserable out here, so hot and dry the scorpions have taken refuge under the sidewinders. Word is, Blackwater mercenaries train in this unforgiving desert because it makes Kandahar look like Club Med.
You'd never know it from inside our truck. The A/C is blowing ice cold, and Gene keeps his right foot flat as we literally glide over whoop after whoop (an off-road-racing term for the thousands of beige speed bumps scattered before us). Whoops vary in size and composition, from small ones made of storm-piled sand to taller berms packed down by dirtbike and buggy tires, but all can seriously cripple a vehicle if taken at speed.
We're doing 100 mph. At half this rate, any regular truck would explosively dismantle as fast, hard, and repeated hits induce massive and comprehensive suspension or tire failure. Our truck simply strides over them, with some turbulence for us in the cabin, but without any gut wrenching, bolt stripping, metal-on-metal indications of imminent disaster.
Well, except for Gene. He keeps hollering and looking over to gauge my reaction. Because of my helmet, he can't see the big, goofy grin on my face, nor does he realize I'm not ignoring him. I'm quietly scanning the horizon for the next big hit. Apparently, he takes my stoicism as evidence that I'm not having fun, and since we're already at Vmax, he decides to show me what a little full-throttle opposite lock can do.
It's when we launch off a huge whoop while yawed at 45 degrees, that I realize I should let Gene know how much I'm enjoying myself. While I'd like to die with a smile on my face, I'd rather it not be in this godforsaken place. I let off a whoop of my own, and his response is an immediate and gleeful, "I know, right? You just can't do that in any other truck!"
Which is precisely the point. Back in 2006, when Ford's Special Vehicles Team set out to create a performance variant of the next-generation F150, they considered creating another slammed and supercharged street truck like the 1999-2004 SVT Lighting. Then SVT chief engineer Jamal Hameedi studied what was hot and what was not at the annual SEMA aftermarket show. What he saw was a resurging trend among Southern California truck enthusiasts toward lifted full-size trucks and prerunners modeled after desert racers. So he issued a challenge to his SVT team: Build the baddest off-road truck ever offered by an OEM. They call it the 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor, and it's an unquestionable success.
Just look at the numbers: Compared with a standard F-150, the Raptor's track is 6.6 inches wider to accommodate the longer and stronger upper-and-lower control arms, tie-rods, and halfshafts unique to this vehicle. The Raptor uses special composite fenders flared out by eight inches (four on each side) to help cover this wider track and the specially designed, 35-inch BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A tires. In fact, the Raptor is so wide, it's required to run the federally mandated marker lights normally seen on dually trucks.
Clearance from the lowest skidplate to the ground is 10 inches, which is easily soaked up by 11.2 inches of front and 12.1 inches of rear suspension travel provided by the specially designed Fox Racing shocks. These shocks use Fox Racing's patented internal bypass technology and are an industry first for a production vehicle. At normal ride height, Raptor shocks are three times stiffer than those in a standard F-150, yet they're supple and compliant. Near the bottom of travel, the Raptor shocks grow roughly seven times stiffer than the F-150's, which prevents hard impacts and the destruction of components and body work.
While bodywork and suspension from the A-pillar forward are almost entirely unique, the engine and interior are only slightly tweaked. Underhood is Ford's stalwart 5.4-liter V-8 that makes 320 horsepower at 5000 rpm and 390 pound-feet of torque at 3500 rpm and mates to a six-speed automatic transmission. It's enough to get the job done, but the real desert racers will want the all-new, high-feature 6.2-liter V-8 that comes out early next year. That engine will make an estimated 400 horsepower and 400 pound feet of torque.
Inside, the Raptor is treated to upgrades that match its aggressive exterior and badge, including a leather-wrapped steering wheel with centering sightline, beefed-up leather seat bolsters, and a four-pack of prewired and fused auxiliary switches, perfect for controlling everything from KC lights to a winch.
With its huge tires, flared fenders, enormous grille, and optional graphics package, the Raptor looks like the ultimate desert toy. But it's more than just a toy; with a 1000-pound payload, 6000-pound towing capacity, and all the bells and whistles of the regular F-150--including the factory-installed integrated trailer brake controller and trailer sway control, the Raptor can serve as the toy hauler and everyday work truck as well.
SVT made sure the Raptor isn't a penalty box on-road. In fact, despite (or perhaps because of) the massive tires, the overall ride is significantly better than that of our long-term 2009 F-150 Lariat. The key here is those shocks again; with all that travel and progressively firm ride, the Raptor always feels like it's moving in a giant suspension sweet spot. When cornering, it doesn't roll as much your average full-size street truck, and it imparts a feeling of confidence and stability, no doubt due to the extra wide track and the those massive 315/70R17 BFGs.
Those tires deserve special mention as well. You'd think such enormous off-road tuned rubber tucked under a 5900-pound truck would make for an obnoxiously loud ride, but the exact opposite is true. Surprisingly, the BFGs don't howl or scream however hard you push them. They're quiet (perhaps too quiet) all the way up to the limit, allowing you to hear the Raptor's subtle but sonorous exhaust note. The only real disadvantage of street driving a Raptor is all the extra width. It drives big and makes positioning it around tight corners a bit tricky.
At this point, it would be easy to poo-poo Ford's effort as just another big, bad car company coopting the trends of a hard-core enthusiast scene. Surely Ford and SVT left experts like BFG and Fox Racing to develop the hard stuff, and then they just packaged it all up and marketed it as their own, right? No.
What makes the Raptor such a formidable off-road performer is not just the battle-tested hard parts, but the subtleties of the electronics, a realm the aftermarket is loath to enter. To mess with complicated systems like antilock brakes and high-speed electronic-locking differentials, you need the combination of resources, brainpower, and experience only an OEM like Ford and a skunkworks like SVT can provide.
For example, the Raptor's electronic locking rear differential (E-locker) engages at all speeds, in any mode from 2HI to 4LO, with a simple pull of the drive-selector knob. Clicking the Raptor into Off-Road mode initiates a unique, higher-performance throttle map and shift schedule for the six-speed transmission. The result: more aggressive shifting with revs held longer and the flickability of a prerunner with the traction of a 4x4. Hill Descent Control, a Raptor exclusive, utilizes the ABS actuators and allows for slow-speed downhill crawling in forward and reverse, without ever touching the brake pedal.
The Raptor is not only aggressively equipped, it's aggressively priced. Quick, back-of-napkin calculations put the cost of making your own Raptor at least $8000-$12,000 on top of the purchase price of a full-size truck, and that's without most of the fancy electronics. At $38,995, the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is only $2500 more than the F-150 FX4, yet an order of magnitude more capable. When they become available early next year, 6.2-liter-equipped Raptors will retail for $41,995.
With this level of capability at that price point, we'd have to agree with chief engineer Hameedi. He firmly believes the Raptor has no compromises and no competition.
BUT R-INGE SAID THAT A TITAN CAN DO ALL THAT, 2.
Quote from: R-inge on September 18, 2009, 10:56:51 AM
lol, come on. Except for the suspension there is absolutely nothing special about the truck, as much as I like it. I'd put the Titan against it off-road, personally, and expect a fairly equal outcome.
:lol: I sure hope you were trying to be funny, because I laughed my ass off when I read that.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 22, 2009, 01:32:14 PM
BUT R-INGE SAID THAT A TITAN CAN DO ALL THAT, 2.
No I didn't. Lrn2read.
Quote from: HEMI666 on September 22, 2009, 01:49:32 PM
:lol: I sure hope you were trying to be funny, because I laughed my ass off when I read that.
Take any other offroad situation other than 100mph over jumps and tell me that any other truck isn't capable of it, and I'll call you a fanboy.
Yes, it may be better at all the mundane stuff, which is why I wouldn't mind owning one myself, but there are lesser trucks capable of everything other than the high speed racing stuff that this truck can apparently do.
Tell me where I'm wrong.
The Titan has slightly less ground clearance, but it has a more powerful engine, it has a selectable locking rear diff just like the Ford, it has a low range T-case just like the Ford, and it has good approach and departure angles like the Ford. So for anything other than playing Baja, how is this truck special?
FYI: Rodeo would blow SVT Rapster's doors off.
Quote from: R-inge on September 22, 2009, 02:01:28 PM
No I didn't. Lrn2read.
You said that you'd expect an equal outcome between the two off-road. That means that you believe the Titan can match the Ford in any off-road situation. I've never seen a stock Titan going 100 MPH over desert. Or anywhere, for that matter. :huh:
Though you do have a point as far as wondering if the F-150 can do other off-roading. I'd be willing to be it can do it better than most stock trucks given its superior long-travel suspension and overall beefier parts. But for a stock truck, nothing could catch this thing on an open washboard road.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 22, 2009, 02:05:24 PM
You said that you'd expect an equal outcome between the two off-road. That means that you believe the Titan can match the Ford in any off-road situation. I've never seen a stock Titan going 100 MPH over desert. Or anywhere, for that matter. :huh:
Sorry, I should have clarified for the reading impaired.
QuoteThough you do have a point as far as wondering if the F-150 can do other off-roading. I'd be willing to be it can do it better than most stock trucks given its superior long-travel suspension and overall beefier parts. But for a stock truck, nothing could catch this thing on an open washboard road.
I believe it would be far more comfortable in pretty much any offroad situation. I was just trying to counterbalance the raging fanboi-ism of Nethead, but apparently that wasn't clear. My point is that the only major difference that distinguishes this truck for any other is the suspension. There is otherwise nothing outstanding about it other than some of the cool thoughtful stuff like the toggles for auxiliary equipment. That is pretty cool, actually.
I know what you meant...I was really just givin' you a hard time. Hence the initial statement of mine you countered was in all caps. :lol: :ohyeah:
$40,000 is quite a deal, though, that's for sure.
Quote from: giant_mtb on September 22, 2009, 02:09:42 PM
I know what you meant...I was really just givin' you a hard time. Hence the initial statement of mine you countered was in all caps. :lol: :ohyeah:
$40,000 is quite a deal, though, that's for sure.
Ok, wasn't sure how to take it, honestly. No worries then. ;)
Yeah, like others have pointed out the suspension alone is worth like $12k, and I'd much rather have something like this with factory backing than to just buy an FX4 and stick some aftermarket kit on it. During my morning run I was daydreaming of living back in L.C. in the mountains with one of these, just being able to destroy any of the roads in the area with impunity.
Quote from: R-inge on September 19, 2009, 06:16:49 PM
Alright, so Ford has one NA V8 capable of over 400hp. :clap:
For the record, neither Nissan nor Toyota developed their V8s for anything other than truck duty, which you know full well has a different purpose than a sports car motor. Don't be a fanboy man.
Hardly a fanboy, the next post was deriding ford on not developing the 4V.
For the record, the 5.4, much like the 5.6 and 5.7 from asian brands really only saw duty as a truck engine. Aside from 300 Cobra Rs, 2000 Ford GTs and less than 10K GT500s, the 5.4 has only seen truck use. The engine was hardly developed for passenger car use and for the few that were, they were all over 500 hp. Not many 5 liter engines making 500 hp without forced induction, certainly not as cheap as a GT500 MSRP.
Too bad the aussie engine isn't over here in a mach I mustang.
Quote from: SVT32V on September 23, 2009, 11:21:21 AM
Hardly a fanboy, the next post was deriding ford on not developing the 4V.
For the record, the 5.4, much like the 5.6 and 5.7 from asian brands really only saw duty as a truck engine. Aside from 300 Cobra Rs, 2000 Ford GTs and less than 10K GT500s, the 5.4 has only seen truck use. The engine was hardly developed for passenger car use and for the few that were, they were all over 500 hp. Not many 5 liter engines making 500 hp without forced induction, certainly not as cheap as a GT500 MSRP.
Too bad the aussie engine isn't over here in a mach I mustang.
Alright, point conceded.
+1 to a Mach 1 with that motor.
Mo' Boss 6.2L details, from www.themustangnews.com:
Inside The New 2011 Ford 6.2 V8
Staff Report
A technical look at Ford's new big-block V8.
09-24-09: The long talked about big-block 6.2 liter engine from Ford was unveiled today in Texas as part of the introduction of the redesigned 2011 F-Series Super Duty Trucks. Ford enthusiasts from truck owners to hot-rodders alike have been waiting to see what the first all-new V8 engine family from Ford since 1991 would look like. Well here it is.
The new 6.2 liter V8 will replace the Romeo 5.4 liter engine in the truck line. The power will outpace the current 6.8 liter V-10. Ford has stated that for 2011 the V-10 will remain an option for commercial applications. An all new architecture, the 6.2 V8 engine features single overhead-cams with variable valve timing and two-valves per cylinder. Unique to the design of the heads is the accommodation of two spark plugs per cylinder .
The engine will be available as the standard power plant for F-250 and up Super Duty trucks and optional on the F-150 for the 2011 model year. As it is a dedicated and purpose-designed truck engine it is not expected to show up in a new Mustang without being reworked to shave weight from its stout iron block. Roush has however been experimenting with a naturally-aspirated 7-liter version in their drag racing cars which hits 800hp and has been bullet-proof so who knows what evil may come if SVT chooses to play with the new engine series.
Making this engine particularly robust is the over-square cylinders which have a bore of 102mm and a short 95mm stroke. This arrangement tends to lend itself to high performance and better revving capabilities. The single overhead cams with variable timing use roller-rockers to act upon the valves (as was done in the original 427 SOHC) which are arranged in a true ?hemi? form (as was also done in the original 427 SOHC). Anyone who builds engines knows this is best for breathing capabilities.
Basic construction consists of a cast iron block has cross-bolted four-bolt main bearing caps , aluminum heads , forged steel rods , cast aluminum pistons, magnesium valve covers and a plastic intake manifold . Compression ratio is a relatively high 9.8:1 (that ain't high at all :confused: ) and it can run on any variation of pump gas from regular to E-85 . Pretty slick huh?
Significant development work and computer-aided engineering optimized the cylinder block for more efficient airflow in the crankcase as the pistons move up and down in the bores, resulting in improved torque at higher engine speeds. Piston-cooling jets squirt oil on the underside of the pistons to keep the piston crowns cool under extreme operating conditions. The cooling jets also allow for a higher compression ratio for better engine efficiency and faster engine oil warm-up on cold starts, also improving fuel economy.
The only details we don?t know yet are the horsepower ratings. Ford is withholding that tidbit until later, but most rumors and leaked reports put the power at just over 400 in naturally-aspirated form. Imagine what the SVT guys could do with a set of 4V heads, aluminum block and some force feeding.
I highly doubt it's a big block.
BTW, can you limit posting articles to just one thread?
I just saw my first SVT Raptor on the street. That is one badass mofo. The front end looks pretty good in person. It's intimidating on the road. DAMNIT I NEED ONE.
I can't believe how reasonably priced this truck is. In Canadian dollars:
SVT Raptor with 5.4L V8 = $38,515
SVT Raptor with 6.2L V8 = $41,515
For comparison sake:
F-150 FX4 (offroad package) = $43,099 (base price)
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 04, 2009, 10:05:23 PM
I can't believe how reasonably priced this truck is. In Canadian dollars:
SVT Raptor with 5.4L V8 = $38,515
SVT Raptor with 6.2L V8 = $41,515
For comparison sake:
F-150 FX4 (offroad package) = $43,099 (base price)
Ford is sneaky. I went on to ford.ca and I clicked on the SVT Raptor link where it gave the pricing. The sneaky part is that it linked me to an fordvehicles.com which is American. If I go to "Build It" on ford.ca, the base price is $48,299. It's cheaper to go to drive across the border and buy it there, bring it back, pay the fees, and exchange rate. With a sunroof and rearview camera, it comes to $51,599 (including destination and A/C tax). Still pretty good pricing for such an extreme truck, just not as good as I thought.
Ouch. Isn't that Land Rover LR4 pricing? Sure you may not be able to jump a Land Rover, or haul stuff as well, but I think for that kind of money I'd rather have the Land Rover.
At $50,000 CDN, this is the only truck I would consider. But that's just me.
Scarce details, but this may be the first tuner Raptor:
Sean Hyland Motorsports :wub: is building the baddest ford 4x4 pickup ever. Using the new 2010 Ford Raptor, with it's SVT designed off road suspension, we install a 750hp :rockon: / 700 ft lbs. torque :rockon: 5.4 twin screw supercharged engine package. It is backed up with a either a six-speed manual :rockon: or four-speed automatic transmission. Fuel system, exhaust and cooling upgrades, plus additional suspension, wheel, and tire upgrades complete the package.
The best-looking Raptor on Earth. :praise: View it while the link still connects to an active blog:
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-in-blue-flame/#2
Quote from: Nethead on October 09, 2009, 08:36:09 AM
Sean Hyland Motorsports :wub: is building the baddest ford 4x4 pickup ever.
Most badass Ford truck.
(http://www.fordf2000.com/tn/t1.JPG)
Quote from: Nethead on October 12, 2009, 06:26:58 AM
The best-looking Raptor on Earth. :praise: View it while the link still connects to an active blog:
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-in-blue-flame/#2
All that hard work on the chassis, body, and interior and they still have this boat anchor in the engine bay:
(http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-in-blue-flame/#14)
:evildude:
Edit... awww, autoblog won't let me linky their pickys.
Quote from: 68_427 on October 12, 2009, 09:53:46 AM
Most badass Ford truck.
(http://www.fordf2000.com/tn/t1.JPG)
That
is pretty cool.
Quote from: R-inge on October 13, 2009, 04:20:21 PM
All that hard work on the chassis, body, and interior and they still have this boat anchor in the engine bay:
(http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-in-blue-flame/#14)
:evildude:
Edit... awww, autoblog won't let me linky their pickys.
6.2L V8 will be available in the spring.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 13, 2009, 04:36:18 PM
6.2L V8 will be available in the spring.
Yeah, I'm just playin'.
Quote from: R-inge on October 13, 2009, 04:55:06 PM
Yeah, I'm just playin'.
I just find it funny how everyone bags on the 5.4L and yet despite it's age (18 years old) it's not far off in "hp/L" or total TQ production with the Toyota 5.7L, the Hemi 5.7L, and the Chevy 5.3L.
Ford 5.4L = 320 hp (60 hp/L) and 390 lbs-ft
Toyota 5.7L = 381 hp (66.8 hp/L) and 401 lbs-ft
Hemi 5.7L = 390 hp (68.5 hp/L) and 407 lbs-ft
Chevy 5.3L = 315 hp (59.5 hp/L) and 335 lbs-ft
Well, it's way off the imports in terms of HP, and GM has larger motors which produce more power such as the 6.0 which makes 367hp or roughly 61hp/L and the 6.2 which makes 402hp or roughly 64.5hp/L. The torque it produces is certainly respectable but it's still kinda underpowered by today's standards. It's a good thing the 6.2 is finally coming out to compete with the more powerful trucks on the market. It'll make the F150 a truly superior truck, I think.
Quote from: R-inge on October 14, 2009, 08:19:17 AM
Well, it's way off the imports in terms of HP, and GM has larger motors which produce more power such as the 6.0 which makes 367hp or roughly 61hp/L and the 6.2 which makes 402hp or roughly 64.5hp/L. The torque it produces is certainly respectable but it's still kinda underpowered by today's standards. It's a good thing the 6.2 is finally coming out to compete with the more powerful trucks on the market. It'll make the F150 a truly superior truck, I think.
But really, it's not far off and it's right in the ballpark with total torque production. I think it delivers pretty good power, especially when you consider it's an 18 year old design.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 14, 2009, 09:07:27 AM
But really, it's not far off and it's right in the ballpark with total torque production. I think it delivers pretty good power, especially when you consider it's an 18 year old design.
Yeah, it isn't bad obviously. Ford has just really let things sit with their power-train development while others push forward, so it's nice that their best engine will no longer be an 18 year old design, if that makes any sense.
Obviously they are no longer resting on their laurels. The new Ecoboost series, the new 6.2, the new 5.0 coming out, and now developing their own diesels in-house as well. That's good news for the company I think.
Quote from: R-inge on October 14, 2009, 09:17:16 AM
Yeah, it isn't bad obviously. Ford has just really let things sit with their power-train development while others push forward, so it's nice that their best engine will no longer be an 18 year old design, if that makes any sense.
Obviously they are no longer resting on their laurels. The new Ecoboost series, the new 6.2, the new 5.0 coming out, and now developing their own diesels in-house as well. That's good news for the company I think.
Ford's diesels haven't been very good, so I hope they know what they're doing with moving the development in-house. I think it would have been smarter to just contract out to a proven diesel manufacturer like Caterpillar. International obviously didn't work out well for them though, so maybe that put a sour taste in their mouth for getting an outsider to do it. Don't get me wrong, international's diesels were powerful, but they had lots of problems.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 14, 2009, 09:58:58 AM
Ford's diesels haven't been very good, so I hope they know what they're doing with moving the development in-house. I think it would have been smarter to just contract out to a proven diesel manufacturer like Caterpillar. International obviously didn't work out well for them though, so maybe that put a sour taste in their mouth for getting an outsider to do it. Don't get me wrong, international's diesels were powerful, but they had lots of problems.
Yeah, they are certainly taking a risk, but then again they are also taking a risk by outsourcing it, as you pointed out.
Quote from: R-inge on October 14, 2009, 10:49:47 AM
Yeah, they are certainly taking a risk, but then again they are also taking a risk by outsourcing it, as you pointed out.
R-inge: Outsourcing is now the greater risk. Contractors can go belly-up and leave you without essential parts or services when you've invested millions into something that's a paperweight without those essential parts or services. Not to mention the bad PR contractors can cause you when they fuck-up and your customers blame you--Note that Ford is having to replace millions of Texas Instruments cruise control switches even as I type, and the Explorer got tons of bad pub from the multiple failures of Firestone tires. Sadly, when Ford cancelled all contracts for inadequately manufactured Firestones, GM jumped right in and bought 'em all at discount prices :facepalm:. What
idiots...but we know that.
Nevertheless, outsourcing has its place--the Raptor being a good example: Those triple-bypass Fox offroad competition shocks are expensive, but the entire first-year production of SVT Raptors requires only 6,000 shocks for the production run of 1,500 vehicles--all of 'em sold out a month or more ago. The Nethead here can't make a fiscal argument for producing the shocks in-house--and that would sorta tie your hands if some other company introduces an even better shock that would improve the Raptor even further.
Outsourcing is just too big a risk in the turmoil that is the US economy, not to mention the litigious atmosphere that surrounds any vehicles fast enough to potentially kill passengers or bystanders or both. That's about all of them, at last count...
Some stuff makes sense to outsource, but engines are one of those things that it makes sense to take care of in-house IMO, along with transmissions if you can afford it. That said, transmissions are one of the biggest components outsourced today, next to brakes and suspension.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 14, 2009, 09:07:27 AM
But really, it's not far off and it's right in the ballpark with total torque production. I think it delivers pretty good power, especially when you consider it's an 18 year old design.
"Good enough" doesn't meant "competitive" however.
It's simply outclassed by the competition.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 14, 2009, 01:29:42 PM
"Good enough" doesn't meant "competitive" however.
It's simply outclassed by the competition.
Actually, the engine closest to it in displacement is simply outclassed by the 5.4L. The 5.4L actually outclasses them all in torque production when you take into account displacement. It's the horsepower department where it's outclassed, and it's outclassed quite badly. It should be making around 355 hp to be competitive in the hp/L department, but all that will be rectified in the spring.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 14, 2009, 08:11:15 AM
I just find it funny how everyone bags on the 5.4L and yet despite it's age (18 years old) it's not far off in "hp/L" or total TQ production with the Toyota 5.7L, the Hemi 5.7L, and the Chevy 5.3L.
Ford 5.4L = 320 hp (60 hp/L) and 390 lbs-ft
Toyota 5.7L = 381 hp (66.8 hp/L) and 401 lbs-ft
Hemi 5.7L = 390 hp (68.5 hp/L) and 407 lbs-ft
Chevy 5.3L = 315 hp (59.5 hp/L) and 335 lbs-ft
hp/liter = useless stat :praise:
Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Crew Cab [Spied again]
10/27/2009, 11:37 AMBY DREW JOHNSON
The 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor is one of the most unique truck offering on the market today, but it is also rather limited by its unique cab configuration. Available only in extended SuperCab trim, Ford has been fielding numerous requests for a crew cab model.
Mark Grueber, Ford?s marketing manager, said, ?We?ve had requests for a crew cab. We haven?t made any decisions but there?s some demand for it.?
Well, it looks like that decision has been made and it?s a go for production, judging from this spy shot of a Raptor test truck with four full-size doors. Despite it?s camo and the fake rear roof, you can?t miss the Raptor?s big 35-inch wheels and tires, the unique mesh grille with ?FORD? emblazoned across it and even the red leather hash mark at twelve-o?clock high on the steering wheel indicating the front wheels are straight.
Hardcore off-road enthusiasts may have reservations about a 145-in. long-wheelbase Raptor that?s certain to compromise desert-running and rock-crawling performance for extra interior space, but those with large families or the need to transfer crews of four or five adults into the wilderness are likely to appreciate it. At the SuperCab?s launch earlier this summer, Ford emphasized that the Raptor has been engineered for off road driving on fire roads and mud pits, where the longer wheelbase could have some advantages.
We think it will bow for the 2011 model year with only the new 6.2-liter V8 engine.
I saw one in VT this weekend on the lot. Very cool truck. The guys with me were pretty stoked too, though they are already Ford guys to begin with so it doesn't take much to get them excited.
Four Wheeler Mag had a good review. They seemed to really like it other than the open front diff and lack of pull handles. Also some minor quibbles about suspension tuning. The fact that a magazine which is tailored to more hard core offroading likes this truck says something.
Quote from: R-inge on October 29, 2009, 03:51:15 PM
Four Wheeler Mag had a good review. They seemed to really like it other than the open front diff and lack of pull handles. Also some minor quibbles about suspension tuning. The fact that a magazine which is tailored to more hard core offroading likes this truck says something.
Hopefully Cougs will swallow his pride.
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
FOUR WHEELER MAGAZINE
San Diego, California, just a stone's throw from the US-Mexico border and sharing much of the terrain with our neighbor to the south, seemed like a logical jumping- off point to realize our urges to get behind the wheel of the most controversial truck Ford has ever developed. After all, most of the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor's off-highway capability, inspired by Mexico's Baja peninsula, was developed and tested in the Anza-Borrego desert, northeast of San Diego.
As we rolled in to the Ford rendezvous point, we saw enough Raptors lined-up to populate a spec series in SCORES's legendary Baja 1000. It was about that time that this tempting thought crossed our minds: We could have had the most badass Lobo in all of Mexico.
All of this, in addition to the 9.8 inches of minimum ground clearance (compared to 8.7 for an FX4 model), becomes very meaningful when heading down a desert trail at speed, clobbering whoops, breaking through sand berms, and laughing off errant cranium-sized rocks as if they were bugs strikes against the windshield. The wider-than-Hummer H1 track makes deep sandy ruts insignificant as the wheels drop in and out of them, allowing the chassis to remain parallel to the ground and perfectly stable.
The venerable 320hp/390 lb-ft 5.4L V-8 and six-speed automatic that came in our testers were wholly adequate, making the most of the 4.10:1 gearing. The exhaust note is delicious, with a noticeable bump in sound and volume without being obnoxious. Those who live to roost should wait for the late-availability SOHC 6.2L premium V-8 coming in February. It'll be a $3,000 option and is estimated to produce 400hp and 400 lb-ft of torque.
Flared bodywork is the most...
Sliding around corners hot is just how one drives a Raptor, and surprise encounters with various desert impediments that seem poised to rip off bumpers and front axles in lesser trucks go from a cringe to a shrug as the Raptor flies over them like a Stealth fighter over SAM missile sites. No damage to report, thanks to a sturdy skidplate system. But just in case you find yourself in over your head and in need of stabbing the "Whoa!" pedal, you'll find comfort in knowing that all '10 F-150s have an improved braking system. It is simply phenomenal in the Raptor, with fade-free pedal feel and response previously unheard of in a Ford truck.
While driving through the desert sideways, it is always important to find a good seating position, which is easy with the Raptor's power seat and adjustable pedals. The captain's chairs are comfortable enough to be considered for showroom floor placement at La-Z-Boy, while gripping you as tight as anything this side of a Corbeau racing throne.
A huge steering wheel is your interface with the Raptor, and it is endowed with an orange leather mark at 12 o'clock, in the event you lose where center is. And while you are heading down a fast wash one-handed, you might look around to enjoy the cabin surroundings, which are far and away the nicest available in a fullsize truck.
Building upon the class-leading...
Interior options include some lively orange leather inserts and appliqu?s on the Molten Orange and Tuxedo Black trucks (Oxford White and Flame Blue are also offered), a fantastic Sony stereo, a voice-activated navigation system, complete with Sync and Sirius Travel Link that is capable of displaying traffic, overlaying weather radar, as well as giving you sports scores and gas prices in your vicinity. The backup camera, which is the best in business with its progressive green, yellow, and red marks is also available, and help when backing up on a tight trail.
Judging by the instant recognition of the truck out in the public, we'd say styling is strong. The "F O R D"-emblazoned bull-nosed grille is the centerpiece to a visual display of strong design acumen. Ford trades in the standard F-150's squarely butch duds for some shapely flanks that add some organic elements to the F-150's blocky design. The front fenders are made of composite, while the rear bedsides are stamped steel. Beveled pockets are used so that the standard F-150 headlight cluster and taillights can remain, albeit with a more sinister-looking smoky hue. And forget any preconceived notions that the hood vents are mere eyeball candy - they are entirely functional. Another element that is pure function is the five clearance lights that span the width of the truck in the front and rear. At 86.6 inches wide, these lights are a federal requirement and give the Raptor a unique look when going down the road at night.
All we would have needed to do was head out of the parking lot in our Raptor and turned right to cross the border. We imagined that the Raptor badges could have been easily removed and replaced with those of the Mexican Ford Lobo. With the romanticism of driving off into the Baja Sunset to a seaside palapa filling our heads, we quickly remembered our jobs, family, and good standing within the law enforcement community, reminding ourselves that our own selfishness shouldn't get in the way of our very first printed driving impressions.
Starting with a simple tip, it was three years ago that we began researching and following the Raptor program. The Raptor was started as a successor to the much-loved SVT Lightning when SVT, fulfilling the truck side of their one-truck, one-car strategy, decided it was better to make an extreme truck out of a truck than it was to create a compromised sports car.
Two years ago we broke the story of its existence on fourwheeler.com, and it has been one year since we had the print exclusive (January '09) that introduced it to the world. And it was all of about five minutes in to the 22-mile desert hot lap when we realized that the Raptor has arrived. Years of sleuthing and research all culminating in this: An OEM truck capable of whomping over whoops and sand drifts, blowing through river wash corners sideways at ridiculous speeds and airing out over cross ditches - all with a full factory warranty.
Massive suspension bits and...
So what makes a Raptor? The spec sheet shows that the Raptor is based on a Ford F-150 Super Cab with a 5.5-foot box, a configuration for 2010 that is unique to the Raptor. To make the ultimate OEM truck, SVT focused squarely on the chassis, which receives a 10mm increase in wheelbase and 3.5-inch-per-side increase in track thanks to massive aluminum lower control arms, heavy-duty upper arms with giant ball joints and a modified steering rack with performance tie rods. With specially developed internal 2.5-inch triple-bypass Fox shocks with 47mm pistons and unique high angle 31-spline CV-axles, the Raptor achieves 11.2 inches of front wheel travel. Out back, a two-leaf spring pack works with the piggyback-reservoir versions of the Fox shocks to deliver 12.4 inches of wheel travel to the widened 34-spline 9.75-inch rear axle. Limiting travel at both ends are microcellular jounces.
Obscuring the prerunner-grade suspension from view are specially constructed and Ford-spec'd BF Goodrich All-Terrain T/A tires in the 35-inch equivalent LT315/75R17 size. These tires are mounted on 17x8.5 cast aluminum wheels and even include a matching fullsize spare under the bed.
The Raptor is loaded with features, including an excellent Hill Descent Control that works in both forward and reverse and an Off-Road Mode button that allows the driver to select what level of intrusiveness he wants his electronic nannies to exhibit. Another industry-first feature specific to the Raptor is a rear locker that can be used in any mode (4-Hi, 4-Lo, and 2-Hi) and at any speed. Ford also provides four Super Duty-style auxiliary switches for powering aftermarket accessories, such as lighting or onboard air.
Dirt experience aside (one will most likely spend most of their time on an asphalt highway than on the Sand Highway), you'd be hard-pressed to think the Raptor is such a radical departure from the standard F-150. From the only slightly elevated interior noise level to the way it goes down the road, it feels very much like a standard F-150, a key element to the Raptor program's goals. SVT engineers were quick to point out that they wanted a vehicle that was not compromised on the road. In that goal they have mostly succeeded, though there are a few areas that snitch on the Raptor's off-highway bias. We think that the steering, which is nothing short of perfect in the rough, suffers from being a bit too heavy and slow on the road. On twisty mountain roads, we found the Raptor to handle reasonably well, but with gobs of moderately increasing understeer, requiring far too much steering angle on the tightest turns.
We also feel the shocks could be more supple in initial travel. This isn't your buddy's prerunner with a marshmallowy desert ride; this is a firm-riding OEM truck that had to pass all of Ford's internal requirements for handling and stability. Because of this, there is some compromise to the shock valving, which we feel is too aggressive for the first inch or two of travel, allowing broken pavement, hard-pack fire roads, or square-edged bumps to transmit impact through the structure. Once larger imperfections are encountered, the position-sensitive Fox shocks are all business and tuned right where you'd expect them to be.
Other things we'd like to see are a front mechanical differential to really round off the Raptors trail credentials. Not that the truck needs it per se, but because the driving experience would be even sweeter and all off-pavement halo vehicles should have mechanical traction aids in both axles. We'd also like to see the addition of a driver's and rear passenger grab handles, which are sorely missed when bouncing around in the back of the cab, or when simply climbing in to the driver's chair.
Overall, the Raptor makes for an incredible machine. Take away the fancy marketing, strip away the "Born in Baja" tagline, and you are left with a widely appealing pickup truck. A real pickup truck that can be had with trailer mirrors, a trailer brake controller, which can tow 6,000 pounds and carry a payload of 1,000 pounds. We can imagine customers out there who might not need the Baja capability, but still want a capable truck to get to far reaches of their property, up a snowy road, or through muddy trails.
Ford made the right move by bringing the Raptor to production and if brisk initial sales are any indication, there is a market for a high-performance pickup truck that has a foot of wheel travel, gets 14 mpg city and 18 mpg highway, and costs less than $40,000. Unless you need a different cab configuration, we wonder why anyone wouldn't spend the $2,930 premium over the equivalent FX4. You could easily spend the difference in fiberglass and paint alone on a project truck, really revealing what a value the Raptor is.
Ford has a game-changing, state-of-the-art vehicle in the Raptor, and it is unlike any factory-built 1/2-ton truck before it. Sure, there are many stock vehicles that could have driven where we did, just not in the way we did it, or with the smile we had when we were done. Look for our 2010 Four Wheeler Pickup Truck of the Year competition to see how the Raptor holds its own in a head-to-head battle of new pickups.
What's Hot:
Styling, chassis, interior, highway manners, trail manners, locker, Off-Road Mode
What's Not:
Stiff ride on the street or in mild terrain, lacking interior grab handles, no mechanical front diff
Our Take:
After years of watching and waiting, Ford has delivered the goods
Level It Out
Like all factory pickups, the Raptor comes from the factory with a nose-down or "stink bug" stance. For those who don't plan on loading up the bed, we think that a leveled Raptor would be more appealing from a styling standpoint, as well as a functional one as it would increase the approach angle. As we were examining the cut-away of the front Fox shocks, we noticed a curious "manufacturing artifact." Hidden behind the spring perch appears to be a little present left by the team at Fox Racing Shox. Shown here by the arrows, the factory Raptor shocks have three detents with a wire clip. We surmise that you could level out the Raptor without ever taking the shocks off the truck. All you would need is a coil spring compressor and some common hand tools. The middle detent appears to be enough to level the Raptor, while the second one is there for those who want a nose-high stance. Now, you are on your own if you make the mod and we can't vouch for any warranty claims, but the option appears to be there. Thanks Fox!
I think this truck is awesome and is probably the only pick up that I would ever consider buying. Its just so cool! But that 6.2 needs to come out.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 29, 2009, 06:31:40 PM
I think this truck is awesome and is probably the only pick up that I would ever consider buying. Its just so cool! But that 6.2 needs to come out.
That's pretty much how I feel about it, though I do prefer a Tacoma for the smallness.
"The venerable 320hp/390 lb-ft 5.4L V-8 and six-speed automatic that came in our testers were wholly adequate, making the most of the 4.10:1 gearing."
They didn't seem to have an issue with the engine. :huh:
I'd rather have a TRD Tacoma.
Quote from: thecarnut on October 29, 2009, 09:40:04 PM
I'd rather have a TRD Tacoma.
Which is a pussy compared to this truck. Two different trucks targeted at two different groups of people.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 29, 2009, 10:41:42 PM
Which is a pussy compared to this truck. Two different trucks targeted at two different groups of people.
OK
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 29, 2009, 04:21:46 PM
Hopefully Cougs will swallow his pride.
Whoa - Wasn't a certain someone arguing that it this wasn't a trail rig owing to the mistaken belief that it didn't have 4-Lo?
It's interesting and different, but ultimately nothing all that special IMO. People who do hardcore baja or off-roading would so heavily modify this truck (or any other) so as to be unrecognizable.
And yep, Tacoma by a mile over this for yours truly.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 29, 2009, 10:41:42 PM
Which is a pussy compared to this truck. Two different trucks targeted at two different groups of people.
I know your use of language is mainly for the shock value, but frankly there are a lot more old Tacos still on the road worldwide than F150s. They are extremely durable and capable trucks, particularly in TRD guise.
From the 2010 Automotive Excellence awards of Popular Mechanics:
Best Off-Road Ability: 2010 Ford F-150 Raptor
By The Editors
Published in the December 2009 issue.
Ford?s Special Vehicle Team?the same engineers who developed the Mustang Shelby GT500 transformed the F-150 pickup into the most capable high-speed 4WD truck ever produced.? The Raptor team tuned the suspension on a brutal 62-mile loop in a remote part of the California desert.
The Ford F-150 Raptor looks tough enough to run straight down the Baja Peninsula, race across the Mexican mainland and then continue roaring down through South America until it plows across Antarctica. It is the most extreme high-speed 4x4 pickup ever produced. It looks simply ferocious with its swollen flanks, aggressive stance, visibly rugged suspension pieces1 and thumping 35-inch-tall BF Goodrich off-road tires.
BEST OFF-ROAD ABILITY
Ford F-150 Raptor
Base Price: $38,995 The powertrain is still pure F-150, with a 320-hp 5.4-liter V8 linked to a six-speed automatic, though an exclusive 400-hp 6.2-liter ?Boss? V8 will soon become an option. Engineers widened the F-150?s track by 7 inches with new upper and lower control arms. The lower arms are chamfered like a skidplate, so rocks can slide underneath without hanging the truck up. To allow the Raptor to glide over obstacles and take the punishment of hard landings, the Special Vehicle Team (SVT) chose specifically tuned internal-bypass Fox Racing shocks. There?s nothing exotic about how the Raptor moves over pavement. But the thrills off-road are mighty indeed?the truck is absolutely magical. Whoops, whoop-dees and whoop-dee-doos all get swallowed up by the Raptor?s suspension with casual disdain. At speeds that would lead to jail time when practiced on any interstate, the Raptor can cruise over yard-deep gullies as if they were speed bumps at a Wal-Mart.
Amazingly, while all of the SVT?s changes are designed to aid the Raptor?s off-road ability, they don?t exact a toll in truck utility. The Raptor is rated to tow 6000 pounds and carry a maximum payload of 1020 pounds. A truck that works as hard as it plays? Sign us up.
Tacomas are terrific trucks. They aren't Raptor terrific, but they're terrific in their own right nonetheless. The Tacoma isn't designed for Raptor intentions, and a Raptor isn't specifically designed for Tacoma intentions--even though it still can tow over 6000 pounds and carry a payload of 1020 pounds.
The base price of a Tacoma isn't $38,995, either. This kind of play requires that kind of pay. Such is the way of the world.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 30, 2009, 07:24:41 AM
Whoa - Wasn't a certain someone arguing that it this wasn't a trail rig owing to the mistaken belief that it didn't have 4-Lo?
Yes I was. If this truck was designed specifically for low speed off-roading it wouldn't have been this wide. However, it is capable of doing low speed off-roading and is apparently quite a bit better at it then any other stock pickup truck. It is still designed primarily for high speed off roading.
QuoteIt's interesting and different, but ultimately nothing all that special IMO.
Well, your opinion holds no weight with me whatsoever if you don't think this truck is something special.
QuotePeople who do hardcore baja or off-roading would so heavily modify this truck (or any other) so as to be unrecognizable.
See that's where you're wrong. People who enter races with this truck would, yes. But people who take their trucks out for the weekend don't need to. That's the point of this truck. This truck is so capable, that the weekend warrior doesn't need to make any mods.
QuoteAnd yep, Tacoma by a mile over this for yours truly.
That's because this truck isn't for people like you. For those of us who want an extremely capable off-raod pickup...this truck is king. Even Four Wheeler Magazine says so, which says a lot to me since that is the magazine that showcases purpose built off road machines.
Quote from: Nethead on October 30, 2009, 09:04:41 AM
Tacomas are terrific trucks. They aren't Raptor terrific, but they're terrific in their own right nonetheless. The Tacoma isn't designed for Raptor intentions, and a Raptor isn't specifically designed for Tacoma intentions--even though it still can tow over 6000 pounds and carry a payload of 1020 pounds.
The base price of a Tacoma isn't $38,995, either. This kind of play requires that kind of pay. Such is the way of the world.
Holy Crap, is Nethead actually being reasonable?! :lol: ;)
Quote from: R-inge on October 30, 2009, 09:31:30 AM
Holy Crap, is Nethead actually being reasonable?! :lol: ;)
Maybe even the Nethead can admit when someone other then Ford makes a top notch product. I like Tacos too, but they aren't even in the same league as the Raptor in off road prowess. But then, no stock truck is.
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 30, 2009, 09:44:19 AM
Maybe even the Nethead can admit when someone other then Ford makes a top notch product. I like Tacos too, but they aren't even in the same league as the Raptor in off road prowess. But then, no stock truck is.
I'd say it depends on what you're doing with it. The Taco may not take jumps that well and it doesn't have hill descent control, but they do offer a locking rear diff and about as much ground clearance. Add to that smaller dimensions and for someone who just wants to take it easy I don't see how it wouldn't go anywhere a Raptor could. Maybe just not as fast or as stylishly. :lol:
Quote from: R-inge on October 30, 2009, 09:48:13 AM
I'd say it depends on what you're doing with it. The Taco may not take jumps that well and it doesn't have hill descent control, but they do offer a locking rear diff and about as much ground clearance. Add to that smaller dimensions and for someone who just wants to take it easy I don't see how it wouldn't go anywhere a Raptor could. Maybe just not as fast or as stylishly. :lol:
In tight spaces, sure the Taco would be my choice too, but if tight spaces aren't a concern, it's Raptor all the way baby.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 29, 2009, 09:39:07 PM
"The venerable 320hp/390 lb-ft 5.4L V-8 and six-speed automatic that came in our testers were wholly adequate, making the most of the 4.10:1 gearing."
They didn't seem to have an issue with the engine. :huh:
When the best words you can muster about the engine are "adequate" in a truck thats pretty much extreme in everything else it does then you have a problem .
Quote from: Xer0 on October 30, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
When the best words you can muster about the engine are "adequate" in a truck thats pretty much extreme in everything else it does then you have a problem .
Yup.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 30, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
When the best words you can muster about the engine are "adequate" in a truck thats pretty much extreme in everything else it does then you have a problem .
I take "wholly adequate" and "adequate" as two different things.
Quote from: Xer0 on October 30, 2009, 11:13:18 AM
When the best words you can muster about the engine are "adequate" in a truck thats pretty much extreme in everything else it does then you have a problem .
..."wholly adequate." Which means that the engine and transmission were completely up to par in making the truck do what it was/is supposed to do.
:huh:
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 30, 2009, 11:48:25 AM
I take "wholly adequate" and "adequate" as two different things.
Quote from: giant_mtb on October 30, 2009, 01:17:10 PM
..."wholly adequate." Which means that the engine and transmission were completely up to par in making the truck do what it was/is supposed to do.
:huh:
Nothing about this truck is merely "adequate", wholly or not. Its a balls to the walls and completely unique experience. Everything about this thing that I've read has been heaps of praise, and honestly, I personally think its pretty damn cool too. But, when the best you can muster for the engine is a simple "adequate" when you have such strong words for everything else, well then, its time to get that 6.2 in on the action.
You're not listening, man. There's a huge difference between when someone says "adequate" and "wholly adequate."
But, I digress. The 6.2 will definitely increase praise for the vehicle, but when a magazine says that the current engine performs all of its duties the way it should, I don't see why there's so much room for complaining by you guys. :huh:
:ohyeah:
Yeah, with competitors' top standard top power plants at ~400hp, calling the ancient 5.4L any iteration of the term "adequate" is generous.
Alright, then give it 6,043HP. You won't get anywhere in the sand, but go ahead, if it makes you feel better.
:lol:
The engine is fine.
It's the overdone styling that needs work.
Quote from: Submariner on October 30, 2009, 05:10:14 PM
The engine is fine.
It's the overdone styling that needs work.
It looks a lot better in the metal then in pictures.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 30, 2009, 02:35:04 PM
Yeah, with competitors' top standard top power plants at ~400hp, calling the ancient 5.4L any iteration of the term "adequate" is generous.
You've got to find something to complain about with this truck don't you? Just admit it Cougs. You hate Ford. There's no point in pretending you don't Anything they do lately has you foaming at the mouth. I guarantee that when they put the 6.2L in this truck you will find something else to hate about it.
"Wholly adequate" means perfectly suited. "Adequate" means "it gets the job done". Two different things.
Don't get so worked up. I don't hate much of anything; trucks, automakers or otherwise - I just don't think it's much of anything all that special; with class-anchoring 5.4L or mythical 400 hp 6.2L.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 31, 2009, 09:25:23 AM
Don't get so worked up. I don't hate much of anything; trucks, automakers or otherwise - I just don't think it's much of anything all that special; with class-anchoring 5.4L or mythical 400 hp 6.2L.
Well, then you're an idiot.
As we all know the best baja racers are 2WD. No 2WD = poser.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 01, 2009, 01:12:58 AM
As we all know the best baja racers are 2WD. No 2WD = poser.
Poser is when you can't walk the walk. Last I looked the Raptor easily walks the walk. You're just a hater and that's all there is to it.
Give it 2WD only, a roll cage, the GT500's S/C 5.4L, and more suspension travel, and we'll talk. Until then, it's a bit above the FX4, but not by leaps and bounds.
When was the last time you saw an FX4 going 60 MPH over 3-foot whoops? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 01, 2009, 10:49:21 AM
Poser is when you can't walk the walk. Last I looked the Raptor easily walks the walk. You're just a hater and that's all there is to it.
(http://i282.photobucket.com/albums/kk271/ozzie-ollie/baja_blue_vw_beetle.jpg)
A lot less money and goes places the Raptor can't. :evildude:
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 01, 2009, 10:49:21 AM
Poser is when you can't walk the walk. Last I looked the Raptor easily walks the walk. You're just a hater and that's all there is to it.
We're all friends here - I'm just pickin' and pokin' a bit...
Quote from: GoCougs on November 01, 2009, 04:47:52 PM
We're all friends here - I'm just pickin' and pokin' a bit...
Oh I get that, but you are a hater and Ford can't do right by you.
(http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/SubaruGLlifted/7941287+w320+h240+cr0+re1+ar1/1992-subaru-legacy-92-legacy-on-33s.jpg)
Feel its wrath.
Looks like the back wheel has collided with the wheel arch.
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 01, 2009, 12:20:21 PM
When was the last time you saw an FX4 going 60 MPH over 3-foot whoops? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
The last time you didn't care about shredding your factory warranty to bits. ;)
Quote from: giant_mtb on November 01, 2009, 12:20:21 PM
When was the last time you saw an FX4 going 60 MPH over 3-foot whoops? :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
Dood, my wife jumped her Focus. You don't think an FX4 can handle it? :lol:
Quote from: R-inge on October 30, 2009, 09:31:30 AM
Holy Crap, is Nethead actually being reasonable?! :lol: ;)
R-inge: RingDude, you need to read more of the gospel according to the Nethead here:
You evidently have missed my approval of most things Toyota (even though neither the Nethead here nor the WifeDude have ever owned a Toyota, it's only because they were too much more $$$ than their competitors at the times we were lookin' to trade), many things Nissan/Datsun, most things Porsche (front-engined models and 914s excluded), some things Dodge, Jeep, & Chrysler (sorry, no Plymouths...), several VWs, all things Aston, Minis, most things Ferrari, numerous BMWs, a fair sum of VWs, several Audis, even Studebakers, and a broad range of motorcycles. Nothing French or Korean...
Most other makes are by specific models and years only, such as the '63 Buick Riviera or the '66 Olds Toronado or the Nash Metropolitan or the Lamborghini Miura and Countach.
The Nethead here ain't got the time nor the inclination to bother with the weirds, the over-rateds, the me-toos, yada yada yada. I don't settle for "good enoughs", although I once did. Poverty required its compromises. Everyone knows the lyrics to that timeless melody...
Quote from: Nethead on November 02, 2009, 08:23:32 AM
R-inge: RingDude, you need to read more of the gospel according to the Nethead here:
You evidently have missed my approval of most things Toyota (even though neither the Nethead here nor the WifeDude have ever owned a Toyota, it's only because they were too much more $$$ than their competitors at the time we were lookin' to trade), many things Nissan/Datsun, most things Porsche (front-engined models and 914s excluded), some things Dodge, Jeep, & Chrysler (sorry, no Plymouths...), several VWs, all things Aston, Minis, most things Ferrari, numerous BMWs, a fair sum of VWs, several Audis, even Studebakers, and a broad range of motorcycles. Nothing French or Korean...
Most other makes are by specific models and years only, such as the '63 Buick Riviera or the '66 Olds Toronado or the Nash Metropolitan or the Lamborghini Miura and Countach.
The Nethead here ain't got the time nor the inclination to bother with the weirds, the over-rateds, the me-toos, yada yada yada. I don't settle for "good enoughs", although I once did. Poverty required its compromises. Everyone knows the lyrics to that timeless melody...
Well yeah, I guess the constant drum beating over Ford drowned out anything else you might have said about other makes. Sorry to have missed that.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 01, 2009, 10:03:00 PM
Oh I get that, but you are a hater and Ford can't do right by you.
Not at all, I just like picking and poking at Ford's sub par power train development history, and happen to think GM builds an overall better more attractive product.
Quote from: Submariner on November 02, 2009, 07:48:10 AM
The last time you didn't care about shredding your factory warranty to bits. ;)
That's the thing. The Raptor's warranty stays intact believe it or not.
Oh, that's taking the fanboy stuff a bit too far; do any sort of the hardcore "baja" activity that Raptor is supposedly designed for and just watch Ford void your warranty.
Quote from: R-inge on November 02, 2009, 08:32:55 AM
Well yeah, I guess the constant drum beating over Ford drowned out anything else you might have said about other makes. Sorry to have missed that.
R-inge: No harm/no foul. No card, just an indirect kick from near the midfield line. Play on.
Quote from: Submariner on October 30, 2009, 05:10:14 PM
The engine is fine.
It's the overdone styling that needs work.
Submariner: Gratefully, the decals are optional and it's available in metallic blue. That's all that's needed. The rest of the appearance is basic F-150 stretched to fit a seriously wider stance. That's not overdone, that's just what's necessary to make an extreme offroad vehicle legal for public highways.
I think this truck would look awesome in flat black.
Probably, but it would be a horrible choice from a practical standpoint for a truck like this. Not that all buyers will use it to cruise on dirt roads, but I'd like to think that some won't hesitate to throw a little mud on it.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 02, 2009, 08:53:28 AM
That's the thing. The Raptor's warranty stays intact believe it or not.
No warranty will EVER cover that kind of abuse (I SERIOUSLY doubt the Raptor will be able to accomplish the stunts it's photographed in on a regular basis) it's simply too much wear and tear, no matter how good it may be.
Quote from: Submariner on November 02, 2009, 01:53:26 PM
No warranty will EVER cover that kind of abuse (I SERIOUSLY doubt the Raptor will be able to accomplish the stunts it's photographed in on a regular basis) it's simply too much wear and tear, no matter how good it may be.
They engineered this truck to jump and to take the punishment of the full weight of the truck landing. $10,000 shocks should be able to handle that kind of abuse.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 01, 2009, 11:39:32 AM
Give it 2WD only, a roll cage, the GT500's S/C 5.4L, and more suspension travel, and we'll talk. Until then, it's a bit above the FX4, but not by leaps and bounds.
Those trucks are not streetable.
For the whiners in this thread comes this revelation from www.jalopnik.com:
Detroit, 9:13 AM
Tue Nov 3
More Power! Ford SVT Raptor Gets Upgraded 6.2-liter V8 For 411 HP
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/
The biggest complaint about the Ford SVT Raptor is the paltry 320 HP 5.4-liter V8. Ford rectifies that error today, announcing the new 6.2-liter V8 with 411HP and 434 ft-lb of torque :wub: as an upgrade option. Upgrade price? $3,000. :wub: :wub:
What better way to make arguably the most belligerently awesome pickup truck ever built even better than to add a stonking 91 HP to the bottom line?
The power figures for the Raptor's new heart apply only to this truck and are still missing for the standard F-Series lineup, but for this guise it'll do 411 HP @ 5,500 RPM and 434 lb-ft of torque at 4,500 RPM. That additional grunt is good for an acceleration kick too, getting the truck from 0-60 MPH 1.5 seconds quicker than the standard truck. The upgrade over the 5.4 liter will cost buyers a very reasonable $3,000 and the order books for the truck open up in December and we're betting dealers are foaming at the mouth. At the moment, there are about 3,000 standing orders with 600 trucks sold and only a 16 day turn on dealer lots, with plenty of indication those orders will be updated for the stronger mill. Astounding figures when the full-size truck market is less than half the 2.5 million annual sales from 2007. Of course, the Raptor is as much for full-size truck stuff as an Impala is for NASCAR racing.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And that's the legal-beagle version.
Want more? Why, you need a Raptor XT of course:
FR Raptor XT: Ford Racing's New $100K Limited-Edition Baja Pre-Runner
The Ford SVT Raptor XT, a production version of the fully-caged, coilover-suspended, 6.2-liter, 500HP Raptor Baja pre-runner. Pick up your jaws and believe, Ford's building fifty and selling 'em for a cool $99,950.
There aren't any official images of the Raptor XT ? other than this one shot Wert snapped earlier today while on floor walkabout ? but there don't really need to be ? just take the Raptor R that ran the SCORE Baja 1000 last year and add an interior and glass and you have the Raptor XT. We're not kidding. The Raptor XT comes equipped with a whole host of very serious off-road racing upgrades over the already crazy-capable Raptor. Let's just run down the list:
500 HP version of Ford's new 6.2 liter V8 :wub:
Full 4130 chromoly roll cage :wub:
Coilover four-link rear suspension with 18" of wheel travel :wub:
Fox Racing tuned front suspension with 15" of travel :wub:
37" BFG Baja T/A tires with bead locks (That's some serious shit, and probably the reason the Raptor XTs are built without VINS) :wub:
Tubular bumpers :wub:
Auxilary light bar :zzz:
Front locking differential in addition to the standard rear locker :wub:
Factory five point harnesses and racing seats :wub:
Needless to say. It's a beast. A BEAST. That's 89 HP more than the optional 6.2 liter V8 upgrade in the Raptor, already the most powerful gas engine in the truck market at 411 HP at 5,500 RPM (that's regular Raptor only). With the addition of the full roll cage, race-ready suspension and aux lighting, it's expected to be the choice for professional desert racing teams to do their pre-running in ? the thing's got satellite radio and air conditioning fer Chrissake.
Now the bad news. They're off-road only ? no VIN number and no chance to get one :cry:. Ford's only going to build a total of 50 of these monsters and finally, they're selling them at a monstrous $99,950. That's a $100k pick-em-up truck. Sure, it's probably cheaper than you can build a fer-real Baja runner, but those two figures together place the Raptor XT into the realm of supermodels and movie stars; It's beautiful to look at, and you can't help but imagine how it performs, but it's not within the realm of possibility to have for yourself.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOT. DAMN. :partyon:
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on November 02, 2009, 10:31:28 PM
Those trucks are not streetable.
280Z: Sure they are. The Raptor XT may not be streetable (the absence of a VIN is a clue), but the regular Raptor has good street manners, especially when compared to a certain '66 Bronco with Detroit Lockers front-and-rear that has an enormous pucker factor on partly icy pavement. The regular Raptor ain't cushy, but ya don't have to tow it to the boondocks like you
should ( :evildude:) do the Raptor XT. But even the XT has air conditioning, windows, and upholstery.
The line between merely great and astronomically phenomenal just got ground into the sand and sprayed into the desert skies in a roostertail that's half haul-ass, half bad-ass, and all kick-ass.
w00t!
Quote from: HEMI666 on October 29, 2009, 04:21:46 PM
Hopefully Cougs will swallow his pride.
He swallows everything else, so bet on it.
Quote from: MrH on April 19, 2009, 08:47:17 PM
Yes, you can.
Also, the LED lights across the front: If I remember correctly, the truck is wide enough, it needs those orange lights going across the truck like 18 wheels, and F350's have. So they integrated them into the front like that. Looks pretty cool to me.
I'd love to have one of these in black.
MrH: You now have requited love:
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/#17
Quote from: GoCougs on September 19, 2009, 06:13:09 PM
The sin isn't that Ford can't, it's that Ford didn't.
Wrong again.
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/#31
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on April 19, 2009, 02:11:58 PM
Whats up with the lil lights (LED?) in the grill and bumper?
gotta-qik-z28: Running lights are required by law, apparently, since trucks beyond a certain width or height or both are required to have 'em. Usually, they are tear-drop-shaped, chrome-housed ambers stuck on the roofs of cement mixers, dumptrucks, yada yada yada.
Good to hear about the 6.2...It sounds like a fine motor.
And, that XT isn't street-able...I'd be shocked if it were.
Quote from: Submariner on November 03, 2009, 05:09:44 PM
Good to hear about the 6.2...It sounds like a fine motor.
And, that XT isn't street-able...I'd be shocked if it were.
Nobody said it was. It doesn't even have a VIN.
Quote from: Submariner on November 03, 2009, 05:09:44 PM
And, that XT isn't street-able...I'd be shocked if it were.
Thank you, captain obvious.
Quote from: thecarnut on November 02, 2009, 12:18:28 PM
I think this truck would look awesome in flat black.
thecarnut: You said "Jump!", Ford said "How high?":
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/#17
You got pull in Dearborn evidently! :ohyeah:
Quote from: Nethead on November 04, 2009, 07:42:01 AM
thecarnut: You said "Jump!", Ford said "How high?":
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/#17
You got pull in Dearborn evidently! :ohyeah:
That's just black...with ugly graphics.
Quote from: Nethead on November 04, 2009, 07:42:01 AM
thecarnut: You said "Jump!", Ford said "How high?":
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-0/#17
You got pull in Dearborn evidently! :ohyeah:
Damn, that's pretty nice!
Though IMO it would look nicer without the decals on the bed.
Quote from: MrH on November 04, 2009, 08:46:09 AM
That's just black...with ugly graphics.
MrH: The graphics are optional, as you probably know. You and I will never understand what buyers see in decals :facepalm:, but salespeople only care that they're buyers instead of just shoppers.
And I agree that the color could be "just black", although the lack of reflections off the surface indicates something more akin to "satin" black--or even "flat" black with lotsa clearcoat to provide some minimal level of paint protection (futile as that may be on a vehicle comfortable with 80 MPH across the western deserts). Pics of the orange, white, and metallic blue Raptors don't appear that glossy, either, compared to pics of a "street" F-150. Some chemistry appears to be at work here--which the Nethead here would guess to be clearcoat of a type similar to the thick, clear stuff applied to the leading surfaces of street cars to minimize chipping from gravel or what have you. Whatever the chemistry of the finish may be, the desert will have the best of it...
Quote from: Nethead on November 03, 2009, 07:31:24 AM
280Z: Sure they are. The Raptor XT may not be streetable (the absence of a VIN is a clue), but the regular Raptor has good street manners, especially when compared to a certain '66 Bronco with Detroit Lockers front-and-rear that has an enormous pucker factor on partly icy pavement.
280Z wasn't talking about the Raptor, he was talking about the fully race-prepped Baja trucks Cougs mentioned.
I saw a kid drive one to school every once in awhile in AZ, but it wasn't often, and I doubt it was much fun on the highway.
Sure a Raptor with 2WD only, a roll cage, 540 5.4L V8 and more suspension travel is street legal.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 04, 2009, 02:20:23 PM
Sure a Raptor with 2WD only, a roll cage, 540 5.4L V8 and more suspension travel is street legal.
:nutty:
Turn on your sarcasm detector dude. ;)
Evidently, ban over. :huh:
Moving right along:
The pic on the link below is a SEMA Raptor with the 411/434 6.2L V8. It has a paint-&-decals combo much better-looking than any previous factory Raptor that I've seen, although whether this p&d combo is a one-off or a new graphics package the brief article did not say:
http://www.autoblog.com/gallery/sema-2009-2010-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-6-2l/
It's good! 'Possibly wouldn't work in black or orange, but might be just as good-lookin' in metallic blue as it is in white. 'Hope so!
Has the crew cab Raptor been confirmed yet? Anyone know a release date on it?
Quote from: MrH on November 09, 2009, 05:19:59 PM
Has the crew cab Raptor been confirmed yet? Anyone know a release date on it?
They've been testing it but nothing "confirmed".
Quote from: MrH on November 09, 2009, 05:19:59 PM
Has the crew cab Raptor been confirmed yet? Anyone know a release date on it?
MrH: I can't see this happening, for a lot of reasons. Most prohibitive: SVT has 3,000 orders for the 5.4L Raptor but originally planned to produce only 1,500 per year. If that's still the planned production numbers, the first two years of Raptor production are sold out. The 6.2L Raptor can only tighten that availability situation (although it's likely some will seek to change their orders for the 5.4L Raptor to the 6.2L Raptor, and possibly some who intended to enter offroad races with their standard Raptors will seek to change their orders to Raptor XTs).
With demand for the Raptor so high "as is", it might be tough to find the assembly line time to expand the line-up to include crewcab configs. Not to mention the assembly problems that expanding production numbers might create for the manufacturer of Fox shocks.
And these scenarios dont even touch on the engineering issues that crewcab configs might create. A lot of additional testing oughtta be undertaken to discover all possible problems that jumping a crewcab might present--especially with your defensive linemen buddies on board :cry:.
Still, if the demand is there...
Quote from: Nethead on November 11, 2009, 01:05:43 PM
MrH: I can't see this happening, for a lot of reasons. Most prohibitive: SVT has 3,000 orders for the 5.4L Raptor but originally planned to produce only 1,500 per year. If that's still the planned production numbers, the first two years of Raptor production are sold out. The 6.2L Raptor can only tighten that availability situation (although it's likely some will seek to change their orders for the 5.4L Raptor to the 6.2L Raptor, and possibly some who intended to enter offroad races with their standard Raptors will seek to change their orders to Raptor XTs).
With demand for the Raptor so high "as is", it might be tough to find the assembly line time to expand the line-up to include crewcab configs. Not to mention the assembly problems that expanding production numbers might create for the manufacturer of Fox shocks.
And these scenarios dont even touch on the engineering issues that crewcab configs might create. A lot of additional testing oughtta be undertaken to discover all possible problems that jumping a crewcab might present--especially with your defensive linemen buddies on board :cry:.
Still, if the demand is there...
It's already in testing Nethead.
Quote from: HEMI666 on November 11, 2009, 02:07:10 PM
It's already in testing Nethead.
HEMI666: Yeah, I read the same articles. But being able to buy one is still subject to the same considerations in my posting that you quoted. If the lawyers were hesitant to allow production of the standard Raptor, they'll be absolutely constipated :rage: at allowing the same vehicle with room for even more injured plaintiffs...
The current Raptor can hold people too... It's an extended cab now.
MrH: If you'd buy one if they made one, I hope they build at least one and call it the "Raptor MrH"! Actually, that's sorta catchy :cheers:...and it would keep the rest of the world guessin' :lol:!
Quote from: Nethead on November 13, 2009, 10:53:25 AM
MrH: If you'd buy one if they made one, I hope they build at least one and call it the "Raptor MrH"! Actually, that's sorta catchy :cheers:...and it would keep the rest of the world guessin' :lol:!
WTF are you talking about?
You got to learn to just scan over any post with his name next to it. Otherwise you will consistently find yourself baffled, confused, and a little shocked at just how ignorantly biased he is.
I almost think that he's one of RBA's characters, but then there doesn't seem to be a punchline.
Quote from: TBR on November 16, 2009, 04:26:23 PM
You got to learn to just scan over any post with his name next to it. Otherwise you will consistently find yourself baffled, confused, and a little shocked at just how ignorantly biased he is.
I almost think that he's one of RBA's characters, but then there doesn't seem to be a punchline.
It's like the longest joke ever.
And I doubt they'll make a Raptor MrH. A 22 year old college student doesn't have the deep pockets they're shooting for.
Quote from: MrH on November 17, 2009, 12:54:05 AM
It's like the longest joke ever.
And I doubt they'll make a Raptor MrH. A 22 year old college student doesn't have the deep pockets they're shooting for.
MrH: Shallow pockets is the reason the Nethead here ain't cruisin' the streets in an FR500C with a VIN cut from some totalled Mustang GT. Until we get the new home built, the '66 Bronco dailybailey soldiers on sorta "as is" (which is quite damned good, if it is possible to say that about a vehicle with drum brakes :tounge:) although I have around $27,000 in its build-up fund--not nearly enough to cover the planned upgrades :(. Once the new home is built, half of the remaining capital gains we tapped to build the home will boost that $27,000 sufficiently to cover the extensive upgrades that will shame even a Raptor. However, the Raptor will cost waaayyyy less since it has the goodies from the factory that I'll havta purchase from the aftermarket :cry:. The list of goods & services is long, but it's been in the planning stages for about ten years--lotsa ideas accumulate over a decade :ohyeah:. Some decisions are still pending--transmissions being one: Will it be a T19 (essentially a T18 four-speed manual with first gear synchronized, too) or the transmission from a GT500 with the acceleration gearset (and the appropriate adapter to bolt it up to a D20 transfer case)? Stick with the 289 :wub:(292 actually, since there's been one overbore decades back) or go with a later aluminum engine :wub:? Yada yada yada...Nothin' beats having The Goods in the woods :thumbsup:! :cheers:
Ha! - Yep, I think it obvious at this point that the Nethead there is indeed an alter ego troll of epic proportions - and a good one at that at.
Quote from: GoCougs on November 17, 2009, 07:53:31 AM
Ha! - Yep, I think it obvious at this point that the Nethead there is indeed an alter ego troll of epic proportions - and a good one at that at.
Why, thank you, BlowCougs! (Blush) Shucks. (Blush again) The Truth will out. Guilty as charged, Your Honor. Especially the "...a good one at that..." part :praise:
Peterson's 4 Wheel & Off Road magazine--the best offroad mag published in the US--has picked the Raptor as 4X4 of the Year:
Ford F-150 SVT Raptor Wins 4x4 Of The Year!
Since its initial world debut in late 2008, the F-150 SVT Raptor high-speed off-road performance truck has been a hit. The Dearborn Truck Plant has been building the truck at maximum capacity to fulfill orders, and the media have been giving it stellar reviews and awards based on its off-road performance and daily drivability.
?This truck can handle anything the off-road world can dish out,? stated Doug Scott, truck group marketing manager. ?The F-150 SVT Raptor has been a fantastic halo for the F-150 line, with capabilities far beyond what any other manufacturer currently offers.?
Vehicles were judged on a 1,000-mile trail that evaluated the suspension, engine, transmission, transfer case and styling, and of course, off-road performance. F-150 SVT Raptor beat out three competitors, including the Dodge Ram 2500 Power Wagon, Hummer H3T Alpha and Toyota 4Runner Trail.
Jost Capito, director of global performance vehicles and motorsports business development, added, ?Ford?s Special Vehicle Team (SVT) worked very closely with FOX Racing Shox and BFGoodrich to give the F-150 immense off-road capability, while still being civil on pavement.?
He continued, ?Even though the truck is focused on high speed, we took into account all aspects of off-road driving during development. This award is proof that the F-150 SVT Raptor is a well-rounded performer.?
?The Ford F-150 SVT Raptor pickup handily won this year?s test, despite being pitted against top-of-the-line competition,? said Rick P?w?, editor-in-chief of Petersen?s 4-Wheel & Off-Road. ?The pickup consistently placed well ahead of the competition in most areas, and great value and fun factors sent it over the top. Basic, solid construction gave us the confidence to take the truck wherever we wanted.? As one judge noted, ?It looks cool, drives fast, and seems to take whatever you throw at it.?
Earlier this year, the F-150 SVT Raptor received a 2010 Automotive Excellence Award: Best Off-Road Ability from Popular Mechanics magazine. The F-150 SVT Raptor also helped power the F-150 lineup to win the prestigious Truck of Texas award from the Texas Auto Writers Association.
Available in early 2010, an all-new 6.2-liter V-8 producing 411 horsepower and 434 ft.-lb. of torque will be available in the F-150 SVT Raptor. This new engine will make Raptor the most powerful half-ton pickup available. Customers will have the choice of two V-8 engines ? Ford?s proven 5.4-liter Triton? V-8 or the new 6.2-liter V-8, which can be ordered beginning Dec. 1, with an MSRP of $41,995 including destination and delivery. The 5.4-liter-powered F-150 SVT Raptor starts at $38,995 including destination and delivery.
The 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor was designed as a purpose-built, high-speed off-road truck ready for adventure, and it?s also versatile enough to handle the daily commute. Key enablers to the Raptor?s impressive performance are functional design cues and impressive suspension technology. Internal triple bypass shocks by FOX Racing Shox ? the first on a production truck ? provide position-sensitive damping and extra suspension travel for extreme off-roading and a smooth ride on the road.
www.jalopnik.com picked their "Best Ten Vehicles of the Decade" last week, and the Raptor was the only truck that made the cut:
Jalopnik's Best10 Cars Of The Decade
Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Years Produced: 2010 - Present
Base Price: $38,995
Engine: 5.4-liter V-8, 310 hp
Curb Weight: 6000 lb
Power-To-Weight Ratio: 19.4 lb/hp
Let's be honest: This thing makes no sense whatsoever. It's a much-tweaked Ford pickup with long-travel suspension, a relatively low price tag, and the ability to bomb over washed-out terrain at 80 mph. It's like something out of a dream.
In what world does this compute? What in unholy hell is a normal person supposed to do with this thing? The Raptor isn't like a balls-to-the-wall sports car; you can't really send it rocketing down back roads on the weekends. Nor is it akin to a lifted, worked-over Jeep or Land Cruiser; it can handle rock-crawling and trail-poking, but that's not its forte. No, it's happiest pounding over desert washes at 80 mph, blasting into the air with wheels at full droop and passengers pissing their pants. We love it, but unless you live in the desert, we'll be damned if we know what you do with it.
No matter. The Raptor is a frivolous project at a time when Ford has no business screwing around with frivolous projects. As such, it's the best kind of vehicle ? one built with damn-the-torpedoes passion. In a rational world, it wouldn't exist. Thank God we don't live in a rational world.
Thing You Probably Didn't Know: Eleven inches of front suspension travel. Eleven.
Quote from: Nethead on December 16, 2009, 09:47:42 AM
www.jalopnik.com picked their "Best Ten Vehicles of the Decade" last week, and the Raptor was the only truck that made the cut:
Jalopnik's Best10 Cars Of The Decade
Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Years Produced: 2010 - Present
Base Price: $38,995
Engine: 5.4-liter V-8, 310 hp
Curb Weight: 6000 lb
Power-To-Weight Ratio: 19.4 lb/hp
Let's be honest: This thing makes no sense whatsoever. It's a much-tweaked Ford pickup with long-travel suspension, a relatively low price tag, and the ability to bomb over washed-out terrain at 80 mph. It's like something out of a dream.
In what world does this compute? What in unholy hell is a normal person supposed to do with this thing? The Raptor isn't like a balls-to-the-wall sports car; you can't really send it rocketing down back roads on the weekends. Nor is it akin to a lifted, worked-over Jeep or Land Cruiser; it can handle rock-crawling and trail-poking, but that's not its forte. No, it's happiest pounding over desert washes at 80 mph, blasting into the air with wheels at full droop and passengers pissing their pants. We love it, but unless you live in the desert, we'll be damned if we know what you do with it.
No matter. The Raptor is a frivolous project at a time when Ford has no business screwing around with frivolous projects. As such, it's the best kind of vehicle ? one built with damn-the-torpedoes passion. In a rational world, it wouldn't exist. Thank God we don't live in a rational world.
Thing You Probably Didn't Know: Eleven inches of front suspension travel. Eleven.
So, it's biggest draw (it's impressive high speed off road ability) also happens to totally irrelevant for 99.5% of Americans, yet it's one of the top ten vehicles of the decade?
That's incredibly stupid.
Something that changed the face of SUV's as we know them (say, the 2nd generation Cadillac Escalade) should have made the cut; not this.
Quote from: Submariner on December 16, 2009, 11:15:11 AM
So, it's biggest draw (it's impressive high speed off road ability) also happens to totally irrelevant for 99.5% of Americans, yet it's one of the top ten vehicles of the decade?
That's incredibly stupid.
Something that changed the face of SUV's as we know them (say, the 2nd generation Cadillac Escalade) should have made the cut; not this.
It's the best 10 cars of the decade, not the 10 most influential, not the 10 best cars used how they will most commonly be used. Whether buyers do or do not use the Raptor as intended is irrelevant.
Quote from: MrH on December 16, 2009, 11:50:46 AM
It's the best 10 cars of the decade, not the 10 most influential, not the 10 best cars used how they will most commonly be used. Whether buyers do or do not use the Raptor as intended is irrelevant.
Fine. With that being said, there are many "better" cars than are mentioned on that list. I'd say the only two worth of the title are the Corvette and the 360.
LOL - The M3 didn't even make it? That list blows.
Submariner: Dude, it's about being the very best at what it is designed to be--there is no other off-road OEM truck you can buy that can sustain the speeds off the pavement that the Raptor can. And any home-built or shop-built version of any current new truck would cost a fortune in aftermarket parts & labor to perform anything close to the performance of a Raptor.
It really is a truck for those who appreciate having the best, and not just adequate. There are plenty of adequate trucks for the masses, and you. For 1500 customers who want the best--and who have $38,000/$41,000 plus tax and licensing--this is their truck.
Jalopnik understands, the Nethead here understands, MrH understands, HEMI666 understands--but we recognize that there are those who don't. Ford understands too, and that's why they've limited production to 1500 units/year. It was never intended to be a vehicle of mass consumption. There are plenty of manufacturers catering to the mass market of adequate trucks. There's only one catering to the very select market of awesome trucks...
Ugh - what a joke; any yahoo can invent a list, populate it with whatever and "publish" it via the InnerTards.
I'm going to design a car that's really good at traveling 15mph through a parking lot over speed bumps and then nominate it for an award.
Quote from: Nethead on December 16, 2009, 01:45:14 PM
Submariner: Dude, it's about being the very best at what it is designed to be--there is no other off-road OEM truck you can buy that can sustain the speeds off the pavement that the Raptor can. And any home-built or shop-built version of any current new truck would cost a fortune in aftermarket parts & labor to perform anything close to the performance of a Raptor.
It really is a truck for those who appreciate having the best, and not just adequate. There are plenty of adequate trucks for the masses, and you. For 1500 customers who want the best--and who have $38,000/$41,000 plus tax and licensing--this is their truck.
Jalopnik understands, the Nethead here understands, MrH understands, HEMI666 understands--but we recognize that there are those who don't. Ford understands too, and that's why they've limited production to 1500 units/year. It was never intended to be a vehicle of mass consumption. There are plenty of manufacturers catering to the mass market of adequate trucks. There's only one catering to the very select market of awesome trucks...
I have no doubt it's a good truck.
But there are simply so many more compelling choices out there.
Quote from: Submariner on December 16, 2009, 09:38:53 PM
I have no doubt it's a good truck.
But there are simply so many more compelling choices out there.
Submariner: Well, okay...But the most compelling
other truck is the F-Series (2009 Truck of the Year)--and the Raptor
is an F-Series.
Jalopnik recognizes not just the best, but the very best of the best. What's the problem? :confused:
Quote from: Submariner on December 16, 2009, 09:38:53 PM
I have no doubt it's a good truck.
But there are simply so many more compelling choices out there.
I think they picked it because it is head and shoulders more insane and radical then any pickup ever built.
www.pickuptrucks.com just picked their ten most significant pickups of the decade 1/1/2000--12/31/2009. Sadly, the Raptor gets edged out for the title for the single most significant pickup of the decade by the F-150.
www.autoblog.com introduces the top ten list this way:
We love ourselves a good top 10 list, and when talk turns from cars to trucks, there's nobody who's opinion we respect more than the brain-trust behind PickupTrucks.com. That said, we now present the Top 10 Significant Pickup Trucks of the Decade as chosen by the aforementioned truck nuts (no, not that kind) and AutoPacific.com.
Every major automaker that sells pickup trucks here in the United States is represented on this particular list, which only seems fitting in today's competitive landscape. Further, there's a truck for just about every need ? no matter what size, towing power, seating capability or fuel mileage you are looking for, you'll find it offered here in the States... except perhaps for something really small.
Though it just hit the market at the very tail end of the allowable date range, we'll happily throw a vote in the direction of the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor. It's truly unlike anything else ever offered for sale from a major automaker, and we're happy Ford had the guts to build it.
Clicking on a link in the www.autoblog.com article brings up the www.pickuptrucks.com article, with the F-150 and Raptor sections copied here:
2009 Ford F-150, Most Significant Pickup of the Decade
Why it?s significant:
Remains the gold standard against which other half-ton pickup trucks are compared.
Ford gave its F-150 half-ton pickup a major revision for 2009 and gave buyers an astonishing seven different models to choose from before they even considered engine choice or cab type. Two more models have been added for 2010! It?s not the most powerful truck, but the F-150 features an excellent six-speed transmission and innovative features like Ford Work Solutions that make doing jobs with a truck easier. From contractor to urban cowboy, Ford has an F-150 to meet almost anyone?s needs.
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor:
Why it?s significant:
Ford had the guts to build a go-fast pre-runner-style factory pickup for less than $40,000
There?s nothing else like the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, and there likely may never be. It features a unique Fox Racing long-travel suspension that has a full 11inches of travel in the front dampers to absorb the impact from jumps ? jumps! ? made in the desert at speeds up to 100 mph. Its six-speed transmission is specially tuned with an off-road mode, and there?s a rear locking differential that works in two-wheel or four-wheel drive at speeds up to 66 mph. When other truck manufacturers mumble to themselves about the truck they wish they had in their lineup, Raptor is usually the first word that comes from their lips.
I predict that all of ten Raptors will actually get used the way they were built to be used.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on December 30, 2009, 09:31:28 PM
I predict that all of ten Raptors will actually get used the way they were built to be used.
Who cares. I predict all of 10 Porsche 911 Turbos sold this year will be driven then way they are supposed to be driven. Nobody uses sports cars as intended either.
Quote from: HEMI666 on December 31, 2009, 09:47:31 AM
Who cares. I predict all of 10 Porsche 911 Turbos sold this year will be driven then way they are supposed to be driven. Nobody uses sports cars as intended either.
+ a few.
Quote from: HEMI666 on December 31, 2009, 09:47:31 AM
Who cares. I predict all of 10 Porsche 911 Turbos sold this year will be driven then way they are supposed to be driven. Nobody uses sports cars as intended either.
It's easy to accelerate quickly or take a few turns at pace. It's a bit harder to get airborne.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on January 04, 2010, 10:43:23 PM
It's easy to accelerate quickly or take a few turns at pace. It's a bit harder to get airborne.
Accelerating quickly or taking a few turns at pace is about 2/10ths of what a Ferrari, Porsche, GT-R, M3, etc. can do. Even if the most someone does with their Raptor is go for a blast over some sand dunes, they've done more with their Raptor then the vast majority of supercar owners have done with their cars.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on January 04, 2010, 10:43:23 PM
It's easy to accelerate quickly or take a few turns at pace. It's a bit harder to get airborne.
I get my wheels off the ground all the time. Less since it turned really cold, as my tires are shit and I've been taking it easy since they really can't handle this kind of weather, but in the warmer months, the roads around here are very conducive to getting some wheels off the ground.
Quote from: Nethead on December 17, 2009, 11:12:04 AM
Submariner: Well, okay...But the most compelling other truck is the F-Series (2009 Truck of the Year)--and the Raptor is an F-Series.
Jalopnik recognizes not just the best, but the very best of the best. What's the problem? :confused:
The list is still a joke.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 04, 2010, 11:45:54 PM
Accelerating quickly or taking a few turns at pace is about 2/10ths of what a Ferrari, Porsche, GT-R, M3, etc. can do. Even if the most someone does with their Raptor is go for a blast over some sand dunes, they've done more with their Raptor then the vast majority of supercar owners have done with their cars.
Why is this a competition now?
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2010, 02:55:24 PM
Why is this a competition now?
It's not. I'm making a point.
Quote from: HEMI666 on January 05, 2010, 03:04:11 PM
It's not. I'm making a point.
And what would that be? Is it just something completely trivial, to make you think you're right? If so, I'm not interested :evildude:
Quote from: MrH on January 05, 2010, 03:17:03 PM
And what would that be? Is it just something completely trivial, to make you think you're right? If so, I'm not interested :evildude:
My point is that for anyone to complain about this truck never being used for what it's intended is stupid since nobody uses sports cars as intended either.
Quote from: Secret Chimp on January 04, 2010, 10:43:23 PM
It's easy to accelerate quickly or take a few turns at pace. It's a bit harder to get airborne.
Not really. A little too fast around some dirt trails and WHAMO before you know it, your Subaru is airborne!
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1975_Subaru_DL.jpg)
I would like this thing a lot more if it weren't a Ford.
Quote from: Minpin on January 05, 2010, 06:49:16 PM
I would like this thing a lot more if it weren't a Ford.
...and you continue to live up to your stupid hill billy reputation :evildude:
Quote from: MrH on January 07, 2010, 11:56:58 PM
...and you continue to live up to your stupid hill billy reputation :evildude:
How so? And that statement hurts. :cry:
If I had a ton of disposable income, I'd pick one up.
Actually, cost no object, if I had to buy a pickup this would be first on the list.
I saw a white one on Friday. It looks good in white, but nowhere near as badass as it is in black.
Raptorphoria is still strong, even for the 5.4L version, per www.pickuptrucks.com. The 6.2L Raptors hit the dealerships this month, Raptorgasms to follow:
Road Test Review: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Posted by Mike Levine | February 3, 2010
Staring at a Molten Orange Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, it doesn?t take long for the truck to sear itself onto your retinas, creating an afterimage once you close your eyes. Afterimages disappear after a few seconds, but that?s not the case with the visceral impression of the Raptor, which has been permanently fused with our pickup-truck-driving neurons.
After all of the technical, first-drive and comparison coverage we've given the Raptor, you?d think we'd be bored with it. But every time we get in the factory prerunner, it's a new experience that leaves us wanting more.
As we enthusiastically prepare for the powerful, new 411-horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 Raptor to arrive any day now, we thought we'd spend one last week hitting the trails in the 310-hp, 5.4-liter V-8 version.
We were fortunate to receive the Raptor at PUTC's headquarters in Southern California. The truck was developed only 150 miles away ? in the unforgiving terrain of the Anza-Borrego desert wilderness ? and much of the undeveloped land in SoCal is just about perfectly matched to the Raptor's strengths. But before we could make a run across California's badlands, we first had to escape from Los Angeles.
Driving a clean Raptor on city streets feels about as natural as brake torquing a hybrid before leaving a stoplight; it borders on embarrassing. The last thing we wanted to be mistaken for was being a commuter in a Raptor. We'd rather be caught with pec and calf implants. There was a perceptible difference in the reaction of drivers, too. We got more thumbs up when the Raptor was dirty than when it was shiny.
The Raptor was impossible to hide in Los Angeles. Its color, width (6.6-inches more than a standard F-150) and height were immediately noticeable. That helped in traffic because most drivers gave it a respectable cushion of space, but parking it could be almost as challenging as running the Raptor over a technical trail. Both required some recon and planning before executing, but we weren't going to tear the roof off the Raptor in the desert like we might maneuvering it in a garage. If we thought driving a clean Raptor was embarrassing, we imagined it would be infinitely more humiliating to air down the tires to squeeze out from under a support beam.
This might sound trivial, but if there was ever a truck that could beat Southern California's notorious freeway expansion joints, it's the Raptor and its Baja racing-inspired suspension. The joints are regularly spaced breaks between concrete sections of highway surface, giving roads room to flex and breathe.
Extended cab pickups, like the Raptor, are notoriously prone to up-and-down ?beaming? that frequently occurs while driving over these joints. You can go for miles where you have to hold onto your coffee to keep it from spilling.
The Raptor?s special Fox Racing-engineered front and rear shocks feature three shock fluid gates inside their barrels that change the dampening rate as the shock responds to every surface condition the truck encounters, from pothole to mudhole. The ride felt a bit stiffer than expected on the freeway, but it virtually muted all beaming in places where we?ve suffered it before in other extended cabs. We consider this a valuable bonus.
During our first drive of the Raptor several months ago, we mentioned how its six-speed automatic transmission constantly hunted or lazily shifted as it tried to optimize fuel economy over performance. That was our experience again with the truck, and it was particularly noticeable climbing steady grades with slight inclines. The Raptor couldn?t seem to decide whether it wanted to be in 5th or 6th gear, even when we held the truck?s speed using cruise control. As before on our first drive, our solution was to keep the truck in tow/haul mode to hold each gear a bit longer before upshifting. Driving became much more satisfying this way, though on downgrades we?d let the gearbox have full control to avoid an unexpected downshift as the truck tried to slow itself with engine braking, thinking a trailer might be attached.
Off the line performance wasn?t bad though for a heavy off-road truck with a 310 hp engine. In an earlier drive, we timed the Raptor with our VBOX taking a reasonable 8.8-seconds to go from 0 to 60 mph.
One of the marvelous things about the Raptor that doesn?t get talked about enough is its excellent cockpit. The seats are well bolstered and hug your back and hips. Hopping in, you immediately feel supported by the truck and confident driving it. When you close the door, all the controls wrap around you and are easily reachable. The console-mounted shifter, off-road mode and hill-descent control buttons and auxiliary power switches fall on your right side at waist height, so you can adjust the truck?s performance quickly as driving conditions change. And just so you don?t forget it?s Molten Orange on the outside, the seats and instrument panel feature the same colored inserts and highlights.
We?re huge fans of Ford?s Sync system, which easily detected our Blackberry and provided traffic conditions at a glance so we could steel ourselves for gridlock or try to plot alternative routes around LA?s crowded freeways and major streets. But as we prepared to set course for one off-road destination, we noticed one major shortcoming with Sync that really stood out in the Raptor. We couldn?t input latitude and longitude coordinates into the navigation system like we could on other trucks, such as the Ram Power Wagon. Geographic coordinates are important in reaching points off-road where the trails aren?t mapped or you need to carve your own path. Ford spokesman Alan Hall says the next version of Sync, called MyFord Touch, will allow us to enter latitude and longitude.
Our Raptor also came equipped with Ford?s optional Sony audio system. Sound quality was quite good, particularly playing satellite radio, but we weren?t so happy with the aluminum mesh speaker grates in the doors. They scraped the back of our hands like a cheese grater when we reached for stuff in the door pockets.
City driving behind us, we turned our attention to wheeling in the Raptor. Much of the year, desert temperatures are a furnace that can quickly turn you into beef jerky if you get into a jam before help arrives. But in the wintertime, it's much more hospitable to off-road exploration.
We took the Raptor to three off-road spots: the Trona Pinnacles, Red Rock Canyon and Hungry Valley. Each offered its own unique trails to challenge the Raptor. At Trona, we headed for a wide riverbed that runs between the park?s stunning rock formations. The sandy wash was bone dry on the surface but wet underneath with the moisture left over from last week?s big storms.
Aside from running flat out on a dirt road, there?s probably no better way to get familiar with the Raptor?s high-speed off-road capability than a dry wash. You can run flat out for hundreds of yards or more with little risk of hitting anything larger than worn river rock or a hardy bush. If you need to slow down, letting off the accelerator is usually all that?s needed because the Raptor?s 6,000-pound mass ensures it will start to sink into the sand as it sheds speed, slowing it even further.
We ran the Raptor in four-wheel drive with Off-Road Mode engaged. Off-Road Mode gives the Raptor a linear throttle response, like a race truck, instead of high power at the beginning and tapered at the end, like a street truck. We noticed that characteristic right away, as it took a few moments for the engine and mass of the truck to spool up to Baja-worthy speeds in the silt. Once in the zone and flying through the wash, the Raptor?s transmission found its sweet spot in the power range and held onto its RPMs instead of upshifting, similar to tow/haul mode. Even when we let our foot off the accelerator, using the sand?s friction and depth to scrub speed as we picked different channels to run through, the power was readily available when we needed to call on it again once we knew the way was clear.
Some of the most fun we had was trying to get the Raptor sideways. As much as we gripe about wanting more power from the 5.4-liter V-8 in the F-150, in the Raptor it lets you tail-slide with precision instead of overpowering the truck if you?re accidentally too strong with the throttle. You simply angle the wheel, hit the throttle and enjoy the tail-slide. In flat stretches, you can really let the Raptor rip and drift through the bends. The grippy 315/70R17 BF Goodrich tires and wide stance (about 6.5-inches wider than a standard F-150) add to the stability. Body control is excellent.
After Trona, we headed to Red Rock Canyon?s sandy and rocky trails. Here, we played with the Raptor?s agility on tight paths and followed trails that were little more than single tracks in places. Instead of high-speed stunts, we picked our way around sharp rocks and large bushes with little more than adding a few more desert pinstripes to the sides of the Raptor?s wide fenders.
All day we had looked for a place to jump the Raptor, and in Trona we found just the right bump to get the truck airborne. The amazing part of the jump was that it only took 20 to 30 mph to do it, and from the driver?s seat we almost couldn?t tell. As the Raptor?s suspension fully extended itself in midair, it was totally quiet in the cabin. On landing, the shocks and jounces soaked up the impact, so we weren?t violently pushed toward the roof. The triple bypass Fox dampeners we spoke of earlier only perform stronger the harder they?re pushed. Shock absorption is almost four times better at the end of the travel than when the shock is first compressed. It was simply an amazing performance in an act that probably would have destroyed 99 percent of the vehicles on the highway. Ford?s SVT engineers and the folks at Fox Racing deserve mad props for their suspension tuning and durability in the Raptor.
Finally, at Hungry Park near Gorman, Calif., we played with the Raptor on muddy trails still wet from the runoff of fresh snow. The Raptor didn?t feel quite as comfortable in this situation. The F-150?s weight played against it a bit as it sunk into sticky mud, but the truck? never let us down when we needed extra power to scoot out of a slick situation.
Though it wasn?t as dramatic as power sliding in a wash, we played with the Raptor?s Hill Descent Control. Several times we let the truck crawl its way down some very steep hills. The HDC walks the truck by modulating the antilock braking system automatically so you can keep your foot off the brake and simply steer the truck in the proper direction. The Raptor?s HDC is the quietest we?ve experienced. The ABS modulations were smooth and unobtrusive. Once, the Raptor started to slide a bit going downhill because of the slick mud, but it quickly regained its footing as the tires bit into more solid dirt.
Each time we started crawling the truck down the grades, a small group of spectators and passing dirt bikers stopped to watch, and each time we gave what was probably a less dramatic show then they thought they?d see.
After two days of off-roading in the Raptor, we returned to city driving before giving the Raptor back to Ford. But before we cleaned it up, we drove around Los Angeles like we were wearing medals of honor. The Raptor was covered in a layer of dried mud and dust. The Molten Orange color was obscured and didn?t blind us with its brilliance as before. But that was OK. The memories of wheeling in the truck are going to last much longer. The Raptor is a truck that makes us want to play in the dirt every chance we get.
I...must...have...a...Raptor.
There's a black one living around the corner from me. Very sexy.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 06, 2010, 11:04:47 AM
There's a black one living around the corner from me. Very sexy.
'Nice scenery where you live!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on February 06, 2010, 11:04:47 AM
There's a black one living around the corner from me. Very sexy.
There's a black one and a white one running around here.
Quote from: SVT666 on February 09, 2010, 10:58:45 AM
There's a black one and a white one running around here.
I saw a white one the other day. I don't like that truck nearly as much in white. It looks pretty badass in black though. Haven't seen orange yet.
God damn that thing is loud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qG2kWfngJE0&feature=player_embedded
sweet
i wonder how well it would do in the snow :lockedup:
What The Truck?
From www.autoblog.com:
Hennessey VelociRaptor 500: Supercharged, off-road awesome
by Damon Lavrinc (RSS feed) on Feb 10th 2010 at 3:58 PM
Hennessey has worked its magic on the new Ford F150 Raptor and as you'd expect, the primary addition to FoMoCo's Dakar-ready pickup is... power. Meet the Hennessey VelociRaptor.
With the knowledge that Ford's engineers know infinitely more about suspension tuning, Hennessey has focused the majority of its efforts under the hood, slapping a Whipple supercharger onto the Raptor's 5.4-liter V8 and ramping output to 501 horsepower (at 5,100 rpm) and 520 pound-feet of torque (at 3,200 rpm). Combined with the 9.1 pounds of boost, a K&N intake, upgraded fuel injectors, a stainless steel exhaust and headers, and then tuned with a reflashed ECU, the VelociRaptor's 0-60 time has been reduced from 8.4 to 5.6 seconds with the quarter mile dispatched in 14.1 seconds at 97 mph.
Hennessey plans to create 100 VelociRaptors each year, with the full kit coming in at $10,950 or the Hennessey-installed solution for $14,995, which includes a one-year warranty.
So is the Raptor going to race the Dakar or what? Needs more cred'.
Quote from: R-inge on February 11, 2010, 08:01:50 AM
So is the Raptor going to race the Dakar or what? Needs more cred'.
Chilean Privateers Running Ford SVT Raptor In Dakar Rally (http://jalopnik.com/5441574/chilean-privateers-running-ford-svt-raptor-in-dakar-rally)
Two crazy Chileans are running a mostly-stock Ford F-150 SVT Raptor in this years Dakar Rally, successfully completing at least four stages. They don't have Ford sponsorship, but should expect a case of pisco at their hotel if they finish. :huh:
They ran it at Baha awhile ago...
Ford F-150 SVT Raptor R completes inaugural run of Baja 1000 (http://www.autoblog.com/2008/11/25/ford-f-150-svt-raptor-r-completes-inaugural-run-of-baja-1000/)
When Ford developed the F-150 SVT Raptor R, the Blue Oval wanted to make sure that it could offer the ultimate in off-road performance. We were pretty much sold after experiencing the truck in the Nevada desert, but Ford wanted to prove the Raptor's capabilities to the world. So Ford entered a modified version of the truck into the Baja 1000, confident that the race-ready Raptor could hold its own in the 631-mile competition. The SVT team entered with realistic expectations, hoping to simply finish a race that has a knack for providing unexpected challenges at every turn. Mission: accomplished. The SVT Raptor not only crossed the finish line, but it did so with flying colors by finishing third in the Class 8 division. This is especially impressive considering the Raptor is built for the lower-level Stock Full class in which it couldn't compete because the production version is not yet for sale. For more details you can check out PickupTrucks.com's live blog of the race, and we've also posted a short video of the SVT Raptor in action, along with the press release, after the jump.
Sweet! I knew about the Baja thing but didn't know about the privateers in the Dakar rally. Good stuff.
That's just as awesome as the rolled Raptor linked from the Dakar page is sad.
From www.autoblog.com:
Ford SVT Raptor outselling estimates, black most popular color
by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on Feb 20th 2010 at 12:18 PM
While we wholeheartedly love the F-150 SVT Raptor, part of us wondered whether there'd be many takers for a $40,000 truck that was purpose-built for the sand dunes. Looks like we needn't have worried, as it appears demand is very strong for the Raptor. In fact, Ford had its flacks issue a press release bragging about just how successful the Raptor's been so far. The factory super-truck has reportedly found 5,300 takers to date, and F-150 marketing manager Mark Grueber says Raptor "is so popular that we actually wound up building more 5.4-liter V-8 models than we had originally anticipated."
The reason Ford thought customers might be interested in waiting to pull the trigger on a Raptor is the spring availability of the Dearborn, MI-based automaker's new 6.2-liter V8 engine. The new 6.2 promises 411 horsepower and 434 pound-feet of torque, or 91 more ponies than the soon-to-be-mothballed 5.4. Ford's already taking orders for the 6.2-liter model, and we're thinking they'll only increase in number over the coming weeks and months.
After filling out 5,300 orders, Ford also has a better idea of which amenities customers want in their Raptors, and the content story is a good one for the automaker. Ford reports that customers are checking option boxes for the luxury package, reverse-sensing camera and moonroof at a rate of at least 79 percent. Ford's expensive but fantastic touchscreen navigation with SIRIUS Travel Link? is being chosen in 62 percent of Raptors sold. And while we loved the Raptor in Molten Orange, 52 percent of customers are opting for Tuxedo Black.
PRESS RELEASE
DEARBORN, Mich., Feb. 19, 2010 ? Customer demand for Ford's new F-150 SVT Raptor is moving nearly as fast as the world's only production high-speed off-road performance truck. Already, over 5,300 orders have been placed for the new performance pickup.
"We couldn't be more pleased with the popularity of the F-150 SVT Raptor," said Mark Grueber, F-150 Marketing manager. "Orders have exceeded our expectations. The truck is so popular that we actually wound up building more 5.4-liter V-8 models than we had originally anticipated. The order banks are now open for the all-new 6.2-liter V-8, and the orders keep rolling in."
The F-150 Raptor is the first ever high-speed off-road performance truck offered by any manufacture and highlights Ford's 33 years of truck leadership by emphasizing Built Ford Tough innovation and engineering. Developed with the DNA of an off-road pre-runner, the comprehensive modifications to the truck focused on chassis and suspension.
Built alongside the best-selling F-150 at Ford's Dearborn Truck Plant, the 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor was designed for the off-road performance market which has steadily grown in popularity over the past decade.
Raptor is powered by F-150's proven 5.4-liter Triton? V-8 three-valve engine, which delivers 320 horsepower and 390 ft.-lb. of torque. This spring, customers will have the added option of an all-new 6.2-liter V-8 engine, producing 411 horsepower and 434 ft.-lb. of torque ? making Raptor the most powerful half-ton pickup on the market.
The appeal of the Ford's F-150 SVT Raptor extends beyond just desert runners. While the biggest markets for order so far are in the Southwest and Texas, demand also is high in states like Tennessee, Michigan, Colorado, Ohio and Georgia
Customers are showing an appreciation for Raptor's unparalleled off-road performance, as well as its many features. Options such as the luxury package, moonroof and reverse camera all have "take rates" of more than 79 percent. Popular F-150 utility options like touch-screen navigation with SIRIUS Travel Link?, trailer brake controller and Ford's tailgate step have take-rates higher than 62 percent.
The overwhelming top color choice has been Tuxedo Black for more than 52 percent of all orders, followed by Molten Orange, Oxford White and Blue Flame.
From www.autoweek.com:
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, an AW Drivers Log
PHOTO GALLERY MOTORSPORTS EDITOR MAC MORRISON: I'm not much of a ?truck guy,? but even with that disclaimer in mind, this vehicle just makes me laugh. And maybe that's the beauty of it. But driving it for a night in metro Detroit is a waste in terms of its true capabilities. You sit at what feels, like, 15 feet in the air, lording over the flies, er, normal cars. It feels like you are in a mini monster truck. Is this a good thing? I suppose any truck that forces you to suppress the urge to drive over anything and everything must be good in a juvenile sort of way. The Raptor certainly looks badass, too, and I'd like to spend a weekend on some lakeside sand dunes and beaches just tearing the hell out of the sand like one of those flesh-eating worms in Tremors.
The ride quality is perfectly acceptable even for city driving, and overall, the truck is actually fun to drive. But the power is unacceptable for something wearing the SVT badge. The Raptor weights close to 6,000 pounds, so 310 hp and 365 lb-ft don't cut it. Of course, SVT created this machine with more utilitarian duties in mind rather than scaring the dino-crap out of stunned passengers on a road course ? la the old F-150 Lightning, but I just wasn't thrilled with the power.
SENIOR EDITOR FOR NEWS BOB GRITZINGER: The Raptor is a huge departure for SVT, into serious off-roading for the road versus the straight-line acceleration and supercharged insanity of the Lightning. In a way, the Lightning was the more clownish vehicle--I mean, why put all that power in a big, heavy uncontrollable box on wheels?
To me, this SVT truck makes a lot more sense, because it focuses engineering effort on trucky stuff, instead of trying to make a sports car out of a truck. It also allows a truck buyer to pick up serious off-road capability right off the shelf, rather than spending months tinkering and adding parts in their own garage. And at the same time, it is drivable in the real world, on real roads, and without sucking down an entire fuel station every time it needs a fill up.
More power is on the way, in the form of a 411-hp, 6.2-liter V8, but until then, this will do just fine, thank you.
EXECUTIVE EDITOR ROGER HART: I liked this Raptor a whole lot more than I thought and I never even got to drive it off-road, where I suspect it would be a blast. But for having all the super-heavy-duty off-road equipment, this thing was amazingly well behaved on the highway. I'm not so sure I liked all the graphics, but the ride and handling were pretty impressive. I miss the supercharged punch of the old Lightning, but this is a very good alternative.
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Base Price: $38,995
As-Tested Price: $46,020
Drivetrain: 5.4-liter V8; 4WD, six-speed automatic
Output: 310 hp @ 5,000 rpm, 365 lb-ft @ 3,500 rpm
Curb Weight: 5,863 lb
Fuel Economy (EPA) : 15 mpg
Options: Sony navigation radio ($2,430); luxury package including power adjustable pedals, power heated signal mirrors, power driver and passenger seat, heated front seats ($1,950); graphics package including exterior graphics ($1,075); molten orange ($495); rearview camera ($450); raptor orange accent seat ($395); trailer brake controller ($230)
More good news for Ford. :rockon:
Kelley Blue Book provides driving tips:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/16/video-kbb-gets-down-dirty-and-airborn-with-the-ford-raptor/
Quote from: Nethead on April 19, 2010, 08:51:33 AM
Kelley Blue Book provides driving tips:
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/04/16/video-kbb-gets-down-dirty-and-airborn-with-the-ford-raptor/
Yo dawg! That truck is hawt! Hawt!
From www.pickuptrucks.com:
First Drive Review: 2010 6.2-liter V-8 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Posted by Mike Levine | April 22, 2010
When the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor was first unveiled in 2008, auto enthusiasts of all stripes were stopped in their tracks by the sheer outrageousness of Ford's off-road pickup truck. There has never been a factory-offered high-performance car or truck engineered to travel at speeds up to 100 mph in places where little more than rocks and sand are the only sources of traction. After several turns behind the wheel of the 5.4-liter V-8 model, we were shocked and awed by how well the Raptor fulfilled Ford's go-fast-in-the-dirt and air-catching promises.
But suddenly, the original Raptor is a base-model truck. A new 6.2-liter V-8 Raptor has arrived with the most powerful engine available in a half-ton pickup, and we've just driven it hard in the unforgiving Mojave Desert of Southern California.
PickupTrucks.com reader Matt Davis, who hangs out with the Raptor driving crew at SVTOffRoad.com, picked up his 6.2-liter Raptor last week and was kind enough to let us borrow it for a day. Also driving alongside us, our good friend Sean Holman, tech editor at Four Wheeler Magazine (you can read Sean's initial opinion of the truck at the Four Wheeler Blog).
More Power!
For years, if there was one gripe that Ford F-150 owners collectively shared, it was the distinct lack of power (and bragging rights) that come with a large-displacement V-8. The all-new 6.2-liter is meant to answer this glaring hole in Ford's powertrain lineup.
The single-overhead cam 6.2-liter V-8 is rated at a brawny 411 horsepower and 434 pounds-feet of torque. The fact that it's making its debut in today's frugal times is rather odd, like seeing the strongman sideshow freak turn up in a Cirque du Soleil performance. Where Ford's latest gas and diesel engines are modern marvels that feature direct injection, turbochargers, compacted graphite iron engine blocks and slick tech like twin intake variable cam timing, the 6.2-liter V-8 is a bit of a throwback. It has two valves and two spark plugs per cylinder, a cast-iron engine block and aluminum cylinder heads. It also features a cast-iron crankshaft, forged steel connecting rods and cast-aluminum pistons. "Powered by Ford" is proudly embossed on the valve covers.
In addition to the Raptor, the 6.2-liter V-8 can also be found bolted under the hood of the new 2011 F-Series Super Duty, where it's rated a bit lower at 385 hp and 405 pounds-feet of torque.
Before we made a beeline for the California outback north of Edwards Air Force Base to try out the whole truck, we paid a visit to our friends at K&N Air Filters in Riverside to borrow time on their chassis dynamometer to empirically measure the horsepower and torque curves of the 6.2-liter.
With the transmission in third gear, maximum torque was measured at 361.64 pounds-feet and horsepower peaked at 344.52 hp. Both measurements were made at the rear wheels instead of at the crank, which is what Ford uses to claim its advertised rating of 411 hp and 434 pounds-feet.
A 20 percent power loss from the crank to the rear wheels from friction and rotational parasitic forces is a fair number to use, gauging the relative difference between claimed and dynoed numbers. In that context, the power the 6.2-liter V-8 was able to put on the ground was better than we expected. It's got more horsepower and just a bit less torque at the rear wheels than the legacy 310-hp, 365 pounds-feet 5.4-liter V-8 has at the crank! And we were using 87-octane regular unleaded fuel, not the pricey premium fuel that's needed to get peak power in other competing large-displacement V-8s.
On the Road
After K&N, the freeways and backroads from Riverside to Mojave gave us plenty of seat time to see how the 6.2-liter Raptor behaved on the road. After all, you don't need to trailer this desert prerunner from home to OHV park or Baja Mexico.
A spring storm passing through Southern California threw hard rain at us at times, so we were able to drive on asphalt in wet and dry conditions. In both cases, the 6.2-liter Raptor felt very secure and solid on the road despite its tall stance, big 35-inch BF Goodrich tires and long-travel suspension. The ride seemed distinctively better than the 5.4-liter Raptor, though you could feel some chassis float when changing lanes.
Perhaps it's the extra weight from the larger mill or revised suspension tuning, but road feel was our first confirmation that the extra time Ford has taken to deliver the 6.2-liter Raptor has paid off well.
The second indicator that the 6.2-liter Raptor is an improved truck came from the noticeable lack of fussiness from the six-speed automatic transmission, which is the same gearbox paired with the 5.4-liter V-8. In past drives, we noted how the 5.4-liter V-8 tended to hunt for gears, looking for the best balance between speed and fuel economy. Our solution to that issue was to use tow/haul mode to hold gears longer before shifting. There's virtually none of that frequent cog swapping in the 6.2-liter Raptor, which shifted only as needed and used the engine's larger power band to stay in gear.
When it came time to plant the accelerator to pass slower vehicles, the Raptor responded by smoothly dropping a gear and revving up to its peak torque sweet spot that's available from 3,500-5,700 rpm. But the rush of power wasn't EcoBoost shove-you-back-in-the-seat-and-keep-shoving strong, like we've experienced in Ford's latest EB-powered vehicles. Opening the Raptor's throttle produced a confident and steady stream of power instead of urgent torque sent to the rear wheels. Its power nicely patches all the gaps the 5.4-liter has, but not excessively so.
To find out just how fast the Raptor is on the road, instead of relying on our butt dyno, we made a couple of runs with the truck at Willow Springs Raceway north of Los Angeles. During three passes in a stormy crosswind, we measured a best zero-to-60 mph time of 7.61 seconds, according to instrumented testing using the VBOX we brought along. That?s with the truck?s launch-optimized 4.10 rear axle, though that low final-drive ratio is somewhat negated by the Raptor?s very tall 35-inch tires. It's 1.2 seconds faster than what we measured in the 5.4-liter V-8 Raptor, and it's very respectable considering the Raptor 's hefty curb weight tips the scales at more than 6,000 pounds.
In the quarter-mile, we hit 89.04 mph in 15.86 seconds.
All of the runs were performed in two-wheel drive with off-road mode on and stability control off, so throttle interference from electronic nannies wouldn't be a problem, though that apparently introduced rear axle wrap and some wheel hop when we went wide-open throttle from a brake-torqued standing start. That's not surprising, since we've experienced similar behavior before in a standard 5.4-liter F-150.
After leaving Willow Springs, we pointed the Raptor toward the wide-open high desert near Johannesburg, Calif. It's where we recently tested a 5.4-liter V-8 Raptor, so we could put the 6.2-liter Raptor on some of the same trails but still try some new ground.
In the Dirt
We turned off the main road into Last Chance Canyon for a quick excursion up a wash that was freshly covered in spots with large rocks that fell from cliffs during the recent rains. Where possible, we squirted up open sandy sections and dodged boulders, getting a feel for the 6.2-liter V-8's power on loose surfaces. As hoped and expected, the strong engine enabled the Raptor to hunch down in the dirt for traction without feeling or becoming bogged down in excessively silty sections. That same power also allowed us make precise course corrections during rapid turns around water-formed bends in the dry riverbed, which wouldn't have been possible with the slower and lower power response with the 5.4-liter V-8. Deft punches of the right pedal could be used for maneuvering instead of being power-limited and having to brake around an obstacle, risking getting bogged down.
We followed several power line roads and dirt bike trails looking for just the right place to jump the Raptor -- you are supposed to jump the truck, after all -- but we didn't have much luck this time finding the right rise. We didn't want to break the truck, either.
What we did find were some great straightaways with odd and random mixes of hard-packed dirt, old crumbling asphalt and small to moderately sized whoops that proved to be an excellent refresher of how well the Raptor's specialized front and rear Fox shocks handle rapidly changing terrain conditions at speeds up to 50 to 60 mph. The 2.5-inch diameter maintenance-free dampers deliver over 11-inches of front and more than 13-inches of aft wheel travel. Three oil gates inside their barrels control the dampening rate as the shock responds to every surface condition the truck encounters, from pothole to mudhole.
The 6.2-liter V-8 excelled in these trail situations as well. Faced with the on-the-spot decision to immediately brake and crawl at low speeds or, instead, quickly speed up to leverage the suspension to rapidly cross changing surfaces -- like washboards that gave way to wider-spaced dips or whoops that grew deeper troughs -- the extra power quickly pushed the speedometer to the right so we didn't bounce too hard over stuff that would be tough on the truck and passengers at lower speeds.
What also works well with the 6.2-liter V-8 is the Raptor's specialized off-road mode. Enabled with the push of a button, off-road mode changes the engine?s throttle map to give the Raptor linear throttle response, like a race truck, instead of high power at the beginning and tapered at the end, like a street truck. Off-road mode also changes the transmission?s shift points to hold its gear and not upshift after letting off the throttle at high speeds. It also locks out the sixth-gear overdrive at the top of the transmission to keep the rpm high.
We also spent some time just running the Raptor hard in a wide open desert expanse, drifting and power sliding on the dirt to get further familiar with the 6.2-liter V-8's power band without risk of hitting rocks, bushes or an unexpected deep rut. Flatland isn't part of the Raptor's native hilly and rutted trail-running habitat but it sure is fun throwing the rig around a field.
Adding It All Up
But there's more to the Raptor we tested than just go-fast antics. In addition to the $3,000 upgrade to the 6.2-liter V-8 over the 5.4-liter Raptor's $38,020 starting price, this Raptor also came with the Luxury Package ($1,950) with 10-way power leather heated front seats, power adjustable pedals and a Sony audio system; a moonroof ($995); Ford's Sync entertainment and navigation system ($2,430); a bed extender ($250); tailgate step ($375); and a rearview camera that's a lifesaver backing up off-road ($450). The grand total was $48,445, including a $975 destination charge. Not included: the $1,075 "digital mud" exterior graphics option, so we could decorate the truck with the real stuff.
Are those luxuries worth it? Maybe not the moonroof, but all of the others make sense if this is your ultimate fantasy pickup that can be used for work and play.
One disappointing thing we noticed about the 6.2-liter Raptor was its lack of external differentiation from the 5.4-liter version. Both have the same twin exhaust tips and wheels. In the Ford Racing Raptor XT that was shown at SEMA, there was a cool 6.2-liter V-8 badge that clearly identified the powerplant residing in the truck's engine bay, but on this truck there was nothing. It's an issue that deserves a fix, even one as simple as a small badge.
The last item we measured was fuel economy. We tallied it at two points during the trip. The first part combined freeway and country road driving with off-road driving, and it came out to a lowly 10.4 mpg. The second part only examined highway miles, which were better at 14 mpg but certainly nothing to brag about.
Those familiar with the telenovela development history of the 6.2-liter V-8 powertrain -- which is too long to get into in this story -- know that this engine has been in development since the early part of the last decade. What might have been considered efficient or satisfactory had it arrived around 2006 isn't necessarily the case today. Yes, it has gobs of power, but even a six-speed transmission isn't enough bring mileage up to where it should be. That's the biggest challenge Ford SVT has in front of it with the Raptor because the rest is brilliant.
Compared with the 5.4-liter truck, the 6.2-liter V-8 Raptor is a better balanced package of power and refinement on and off the pavement. There's no doubt that the 6.2-liter V-8 gives the Raptor the extra capability it's been demanding. It's an incredibly good deal for only an extra $3,000.
LOLz at the chassis dyno "analysis" and the general description of what it means to have more power. Yeah, as if the audience doesn't already know. All in all a terrible article.
Quote...we were using 87-octane regular unleaded fuel, not the pricey premium fuel that's needed to get peak power in other competing large-displacement V-8s.
Uh... what competing large-displacement V-8s in its class require premium fuel? I know the 6.2 Vortec doesn't. And it makes roughly the same power, with
pushrods, btw. :tounge:
From www.motortrend.com:
First Drive: 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2
Raptor Attack in the Desert: Is Ford's New 411-Horsepower V-8 Worth an Extra $3000? Oh, Yes...
April 27, 2010 / By Angus MacKenzie
We're sideways at maybe 70 mph and I see the washout looming on the right. It's only two feet wide, but from where I'm sitting, it looks like the Grand Canyon rushing toward us-dark and deep, with jagged edges carved by recent heavy rain. This is going to get ugly.
Gene Martindale deftly flicks the truck back to the right at the last second, roostertails of sand spitting from the rear tires as he kicks the beast in the belly and unleashes 411 angry horses. I see what he's doing: The washout abruptly peters out on the left, and now he's trying to unload the suspension on the right hand side. Even so, this is going to be a big hit. I brace myself, and...there's a muted thud, a sharp but not uncomfortable vertical movement, then...that's it. The sparkling-blue Ford F-150 SVT Raptor barely breaks stride as SVT development engineer-and Baja racer-Martindale races for the far horizon.
Ford's F-150 Raptor is the Porsche 911 GT3 of pickup trucks. Like a 911 GT3, the Raptor is a racebred piece of machinery you can drive every day on the street. Okay, the GT3's reflexes were honed in the green hell of the legendary Nurburgring Nordschliefe road course in Germany. The Raptor, meanwhile, was developed on the stony desert tracks, powdery sand washes, and bone-jarring whoopdies of Baja California. Point the Raptor down a rough desert track, and this thing will go as fast as you dare, without turning into a dribbling mess, out of breath and out of brakes, after a dozen miles or so. And it'll make you feel like a born racer.
Just like a 911 GT3.
The Raptors are built using the biggest brakes and strongest half-shafts in the F-150 parts bin, along with the heavy-duty rear axle. Engineers at SVT, Ford's in-house hot-shop, made hundreds of other detail mechanical changes, ranging from stiffening the engine and transmission mounts 45 percent to developing trick new forged-aluminum front wishbones.
Expensive Fox Racing Shox internal bypass dampers peeking out from behind the special 35-inch BFGoodrich tires are the Raptor's secret sauce, however (and they are expensive-SVT boss Hermann Salenbauch, an ebullient German whose r?sum? includes stints at BMW and Rover, says when he presented the Raptor program to Ford product development brass, one of them saw the piece cost for the dampers and exclaimed: "I could get half a V-8 for that!"). Boasting 11.4 inches of travel up front, and 12.2 at the rear, the Fox Racing Shox help the Raptor shrug off monstrous high-speed off-road impacts that would pop the springs through the fenders of a regular truck, yet deliver such sublime body control it rides like a Range Rover on the blacktop. It's that good.
But there's one thing the Raptor's been missing -- power. Though massaged to deliver 310 horsepower and 365 pound-feet of torque, even an SVT-tuned 5.4-liter Ford Triton V-8 is not the world's most scintillating powerplant. Throttle response is a touch languid, and by the time you reach the 5000-rpm power peak it's gasping as hard as Danny DeVito running a marathon. The Raptor needed more grunt. The good news is, it's got it.
Ford's new 6.2-liter V-8 is the engine the Raptor was always meant to have; the decision to launch with a tuned Triton was made when the engine and truck development programs got six months out of phase. Built at Ford's Romeo engine plant, the new 6.2 is a conventional iron-block, aluminum-head V-8 with single overhead camshafts, variable camshaft timing, and two valves-and two spark plugs-per cylinder. The crank is secured by four bolt main bearing caps, cross-bolted for extra durability. Forged-steel connecting rods are standard, as are lightweight magnesium cam covers and a composite intake manifold.
The base engine made its debut in the 2011 Ford Super Duty with 385 horsepower and 405 pound-feet of torque. A unique cam profile means the engine pumps out 411 horsepower at 5500 rpm and 434 pound-feet at 4500 rpm in Raptor trim. That's a useful 26-horse bump in power and a 29-pound-foot increase in torque, not to mention an extra 101 horsepower and 69 pound-feet over the old 5.4-liter engine. But the raw numbers don't tell the whole story.
The bigger engine adds 150 pounds over the Raptor's front axle, necessitating changes to front and rear spring rates and some of the damper valving to better manage what SVT engineers call "pitch inertia." That's important because one of the keys to the Raptor's unbelievable high-speed stability in the rough stuff is eliminating the tendency of the lightly loaded rear suspension to kick the truck's tail in the air over bumps. The other big change has been to the transmission calibration for the six-speed automatic, which will now hold a lower gear on the entry to corners if you're driving hard.
We drove 5.4 and 6.2 Raptors back to back along the same desert track, a challenging mixture of soft sand and scattered rocks and stomach-churning bumps, linked by a constant string of fast and slow-speed turns. The 6.2's crisper throttle response, how it punches harder out of the turns, and how it blows through deep sanddrifts that leave the 5.4 struggling, are all instantly noticeable. The revised transmission calibration delivers faster, more authoritative upshifts, yet holds a lower gear when you lift off the gas and pitch the truck sideways into a corner. The over-square configuration (bore is 4.02 inches and stroke 3.74 inches) means the 6.2 revs harder than the long-stroke Triton, spinning readily to 6200 rpm with a leaner, harder-edged snarl, thanks, in part, to the new engine's different firing order.
The extra power and torque make the Raptor more adjustable, more fun to drive in the rough stuff. You're more able to change the truck's attitude mid-turn; lift off the gas to get the nose to tuck into the apex, or punch it to kick the tail wide. It might weigh more than the 5.4, but the 6.2 Raptor feels lighter and nimbler. We tried it in 4x2 with the diff locked, and 4x4 with the rear diff open (you can run in four-wheel drive with the diff locked, but the front end then wants to push too much). In two-wheel drive, the Raptor is spectacular, sideways and spitting sand everywhere, but it requires pro-racer reflexes to keep the momentum up through the desert. Four-wheel drive is the hot ticket for most drivers in most conditions, the extra power and torque helping the front wheels pull you out of the turns, particularly in soft sand.
The 6.2 engine is a $3000 option. Worth the money? You betcha. In fact, it's such a no-brainer that, of the 7000 orders that have been placed for the Raptor at this time, 3000 or so were for the 6.2, even though no one outside of Ford engineers and execs, plus a handful of media, have actually driven it. Once the Raptor 6.2 starts to the hit the streets, we wouldn't be surprised if demand for the 5.4 slowly dries up.
And what will SVT do for an encore then? Well, with a bump in the compression ratio, a revised cam profile, new headers, and remapped engine-management system, the new 6.2-liter V-8 is good for a reliable 500 horsepower and 500 pound-feet. The engine's already been race proven in the Baja 1000, installed in the Raptor R. The SVT engineers know better than most the truth in the old saying that racing improves the breed-more than a few are racers themselves. A Raptor R for the street? Now that would be one helluva truck. And the line starts right here.
The Racer's Edge
The true stroke of genius in the Raptor is this time SVT hasn't tried to make a truck do what it really can't do: drive like a sports car. Sure, the slammed, fat-tired SVT F-150 Lightning was fun (as was the outrageous Dodge Ram SRT10), but it was a pretty one-dimensional vehicle. And no matter how good you were behind the wheel, you'd still get your doors blown off by a Porsche.
Turning a truck into a desert racer you can drive on the street makes a lot more sense. Desert racers are built tough and built to go off-road; there's a big slice of truck DNA right there. The Raptor might not have the payload and towing capability of a regular F-150, but it will still haul stuff. And it will take you off-road in-below racing speeds-real comfort. For that reason, the Raptor is apparently proving popular among Texas ranchers who regularly drive across rough tracks to the farthest corners of their property.
But if the Raptor is the Porsche 911 GT3 of pickup trucks, it's perhaps not too much of a stretch to suggest that, as Porsche does with the GT3, Ford might support a desert-racing class for near-stock Raptors. Mention the idea to the folks at SVT, and you'll get a knowing smile. Stay tuned...
Nice, no response to my questions just more hyperbolic rubbish ad copy.
Command + V much?
Quote from: R-inge on April 28, 2010, 08:02:53 PM
Nice, no response to my questions just more hyperbolic rubbish ad copy.
So it was a bad article. Big deal.
Quote from: SVT666 on April 28, 2010, 09:21:59 PM
So it was a bad article. Big deal.
Why is it that Ford inspires such craptastic reporting? I mean I like Ford and all (I said in our recent poll that if I could choose cars from only one brand it would be Ford) but man, the guys who write this crap must be running the kool-aid intravenously.
Quote from: R-inge on April 29, 2010, 08:07:00 PM
Why is it that Ford inspires such craptastic reporting? I mean I like Ford and all (I said in our recent poll that if I could choose cars from only one brand it would be Ford) but man, the guys who write this crap must be running the kool-aid intravenously.
Probably. I'm sure if you pick up some Chevy branded magazines you would get the same stuff.
Quote from: SVT666 on April 29, 2010, 11:17:24 PM
Probably. I'm sure if you pick up some Chevy branded magazines you would get the same stuff.
Yeah, good point. A fanboi is a fanboi.
From www.autoblog.com:
Ford Raptor 6.2 dyno'd again, makes even more power
by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on May 2nd, 2010 at 1:31 PM
Last week we told you about Hennessey's dyno test of the Ford Raptor with the new 6.2-liter V8, which yielded 326 horsepower and 343 pound-feet of torque at the rear wheels. That's a 19.5 percent drivetrain loss from the 411 hp and 434 lb-ft Ford tells us we can expect at the flywheel. We'd typically only post one SVT Raptor dyno post, but our friends over at Pickuptrucks.com also dynoed Ford's off-roading superstar, with substantially different results.
Mike Levine and company traveled to K&N Air Filters in Riverside, California to dyno the Raptor, and came away with totals of 344 hp and 361 lb-ft. at the wheel. That's 18 more ponies and pound-feet than the Hennessey dyno run; an increase of about six percent. Further, Pickuptrucks.com says it ran its tests on 87 octane, which reportedly lowers the 6.2's flywheel power numbers from 411 hp to 401 hp. K&N's dyno showed a drivetrain loss of about 16 percent.
While neither power number is likely to disappoint when behind the wheel, it's nice to know that Hennessey's power numbers look to be at the low end of the spectrum. Perhaps that means the 500 horsepower VelociRaptor is more like the 525 or 550 horsepower VelociRaptor. Head over to Pickuptrucks.com to check out the the comprehensive full review of the Ford SVT Raptor 6.2.
Oh, gods - yet more chassis dyno misinformation...
VelociRaptor?
Sweet Jesus...what a stupid name. :facepalm:
Quote from: Nethead on May 03, 2010, 07:38:23 AM
From www.autoblog.com:
Ford Raptor 6.2 dyno'd again, makes even more power
by Chris Shunk (RSS feed) on May 2nd, 2010 at 1:31 PM
Last week we told you about Hennessey's dyno test of the Ford Raptor with the new 6.2-liter V8, which yielded 326 horsepower and 343 pound-feet of torque at the rear wheels. That's a 19.5 percent drivetrain loss from the 411 hp and 434 lb-ft Ford tells us we can expect at the flywheel. We'd typically only post one SVT Raptor dyno post, but our friends over at Pickuptrucks.com also dynoed Ford's off-roading superstar, with substantially different results.
Mike Levine and company traveled to K&N Air Filters in Riverside, California to dyno the Raptor, and came away with totals of 344 hp and 361 lb-ft. at the wheel. That's 18 more ponies and pound-feet than the Hennessey dyno run; an increase of about six percent. Further, Pickuptrucks.com says it ran its tests on 87 octane, which reportedly lowers the 6.2's flywheel power numbers from 411 hp to 401 hp. K&N's dyno showed a drivetrain loss of about 16 percent.
While neither power number is likely to disappoint when behind the wheel, it's nice to know that Hennessey's power numbers look to be at the low end of the spectrum. Perhaps that means the 500 horsepower VelociRaptor is more like the 525 or 550 horsepower VelociRaptor. Head over to Pickuptrucks.com to check out the the comprehensive full review of the Ford SVT Raptor 6.2.
K&N uses a Dynojet that records as much as 20% higher then a Mustang Dyno. It's not anywhere near as accurate.
Quote from: Submariner on May 03, 2010, 08:38:47 AM
VelociRaptor?
Sweet Jesus...what a stupid name. :facepalm:
It's Hennessey...but appropriate considering the off-pavement speeds this vehicle can maintain. Nothing else comes close.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 03, 2010, 08:36:50 AM
Oh, gods - yet more chassis dyno misinformation...
How would you know? You have neither the truck nor the dynamometer.
The Raptor is for those who want to own the fastest factory off-road truck there is or ever has been. Any questions?
Quote from: Nethead on May 03, 2010, 01:18:16 PM
How would you know? You have neither the truck nor the dynamometer.
The Raptor is for those who want to own the fastest factory off-road truck there is or ever has been. Any questions?
K&N's dyno is a Dynojet and has consistently rated engines much higher then they really are. Remember the 2011 Mustang 5.0L dyno they released? Dynojet's are notorious for high readings.
Quote from: Nethead on May 03, 2010, 01:18:16 PM
How would you know? You have neither the truck nor the dynamometer.
The Raptor is for those who want to own the fastest factory off-road truck there is or ever has been. Any questions?
Yes - how do feel about further soiling the world of automotive enthusiasm by incorrectly substituting fanboyism for knowledge?
I have worked on, designed and programmed dyno systems. Expecting absolute accuracy better than ~5-10% is unrealistic; certainly so across different dynos, different cars, and different shops.
The Raptor will see as much offroad time as the average Escalade or Landcruiser. People who do such things either do it with beaters or if they're spending big bucks they build their own from an older vehicle.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 03, 2010, 02:58:53 PM
Yes - how do feel about further soiling the world of automotive enthusiasm by incorrectly substituting fanboyism for knowledge?
I have worked on, designed and programmed dyno systems. Expecting absolute accuracy better than ~5-10% is unrealistic; certainly so across different dynos, different cars, and different shops.
You have designed and programmed dynomometers? Where and when?
QuoteThe Raptor will see as much offroad time as the average Escalade or Landcruiser. People who do such things either do it with beaters or if they're spending big bucks they build their own from an older vehicle.
That's not true actually. I just finished reading something on the high number of Raptor owners taking their trucks offroad. I will post the article if it's online yet.
Dear Nethead,
You've officially been added to my "ignore" list, making you the first and only person on the forums on it. When you want to be something more than a press release whore for Ford, maybe I'll read your posts again. But honestly, I'm not sure which is more sickening: Human Centipede or your fanboyism.
With regards,
Teuton
Quote from: the Teuton on May 03, 2010, 04:06:51 PM
Dear Nethead,
You've officially been added to my "ignore" list, making you the first and only person on the forums on it. When you want to be something more than a press release whore for Ford, maybe I'll read your posts again. But honestly, I'm not sure which is more sickening: Human Centipede or your fanboyism.
With regards,
Teuton
What does "ignore" do?
Quote from: SVT666 on May 03, 2010, 04:49:46 PM
What does "ignore" do?
All I see is his username and "This user is currently ignored."
It's pretty freakin' cool.
Quote from: SVT666 on May 03, 2010, 03:13:22 PM
You have designed and programmed dynomometers? Where and when?
Uh, yes, plenty of places and a number of times; including all sorts of related equipment (my specialty is machines and factory automation).
Quote
That's not true actually. I just finished reading something on the high number of Raptor owners taking their trucks offroad. I will post the article if it's online yet.
Oh, please. 99% of Raptors aren't being used anywhere close to their off-road ability.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 03, 2010, 06:58:58 PM
Uh, yes, plenty of places and a number of times; including all sorts of related equipment (my specialty is machines and factory automation).
I call bullshit. This is the first anyone on here has ever heard of this despite the numerous conversations and arguments we've had on this site on the very topic.
QuoteOh, please. 99% of Raptors aren't being used anywhere close to their off-road ability.
99% eh? That's quite a statement to make. I'm willing to bet this truck gets used offroad a lot more then you think. Looking on one of the Washington State Raptor owners forums, there is a group on there that go offroad often enough with their trucks.
Quote from: SVT666 on May 03, 2010, 09:11:32 PM
I call bullshit. This is the first anyone on here has ever heard of this despite the numerous conversations and arguments we've had on this site on the very topic.
Remember when you claimed that a lighter drive shaft increased RWHP as told by a chassis dyno? When it was explained to you that that was simply not the case you fought it tooth and nail and IIRC still never relented. That should have been enough to tell you that I and a few others had intimate knowledge of how such machines work.
But beyond that, I've noted a number of times that machines such as dynos and myriad machines and factory automation projects are my specialty. The last dyno I was responsible for (I architected the controls system but didn't program it) was in December, installed in Japan, for a hydraulic motor system for the aerospace industry.
Quote
99% eh? That's quite a statement to make. I'm willing to bet this truck gets used offroad a lot more then you think. Looking on one of the Washington State Raptor owners forums, there is a group on there that go offroad often enough with their trucks.
Please. Virtually no one is bombing a brand new $40k+ pickup down 2' desert washboard at 100 mph just as no one is tearing through the Amazon in a brand new Land Cruiser.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 04, 2010, 10:17:32 AM
Remember when you claimed that a lighter drive shaft increased RWHP as told by a chassis dyno? When it was explained to you that that was simply not the case you fought it tooth and nail and IIRC still never relented. That should have been enough to tell you that I and a few others had intimate knowledge of how such machines work.
:rolleyes: Yeah, that's proof enough for me.
QuotePlease. Virtually no one is bombing a brand new $40k+ pickup down 2' desert washboard at 100 mph just as no one is tearing through the Amazon in a brand new Land Cruiser.
Right. You know what they do with their trucks, but they don't? Whatever.
Quote from: SVT666 on May 04, 2010, 12:49:09 PM
:rolleyes: Yeah, that's proof enough for me.
Right. You know what they do with their trucks, but they don't? Whatever.
Not sure which is the worst about this forum - the technical naivete or the bogus OMG I JUST GOT A FANCY NEW CAR tales.
Either way, sorry, dude - you have been officially "ignored."
Quote from: GoCougs on May 04, 2010, 12:59:39 PM
Not sure which is the worst about this forum - the technical naivete or the bogus OMG I JUST GOT A FANCY NEW CAR tales.
Either way, sorry, dude - you have been officially "ignored."
YAY!!!! It's about time.
Ram Runner
(http://image.fourwheeler.com/f/whats-new/breaking-news-mopar-powerwagon-and-ram-runner-image-vehicles-unveiled/32811312/ramrunner1.jpg)
^Sonoma can do that^
edit: HEY ninja editor! I didn't mean Sonoma can just sit there and look pretty (even though it can), I meant it can catch sweet air over the dunes! :rage:
Quote from: SVT666 on May 04, 2010, 01:54:56 PM
YAY!!!! It's about time.
YOU got ignored by Cougs. pwn3d! :lol:
Quote from: GoCougs on May 04, 2010, 12:59:39 PM
Not sure which is the worst about this forum - the technical naivete or the bogus OMG I JUST GOT A FANCY NEW CAR tales.
Either way, sorry, dude - you have been officially "ignored."
BlowCougs: All the rest of us are sure what's worst about this forum. You. :ohyeah:
Quote from: the Teuton on May 03, 2010, 04:06:51 PM
Dear Nethead,
You've officially been added to my "ignore" list, making you the first and only person on the forums on it. When you want to be something more than a press release whore for Ford, maybe I'll read your posts again. But honestly, I'm not sure which is more sickening: Human Centipede or your fanboyism.
With regards,
Teuton
the Teuton: Aw shucks, TeutDude (Blush), ya shouldn't have (Blush again)!
Page 88 of the June, 2010 issue of Motor Trend is the article "Flight of the Raptor"--about the development of the four-door Raptor SuperCrew coming later this year.
"...I can scarcely believe I can horse a rig this big this fast through country this rough." Page 94
"DESERT STORMER: With the new 411-horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 under the hood, prototype Raptor SuperCrew storms across the open sections of the test loop at almost 100 mph. Ride quality and directional stability are outstanding." Page 91
From www.motortrend.com comes this pretty thorough test of the 6.2L Raptor:
First Test: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2
May 17, 2010 / By Frank Markus
As we've made abundantly clear by our first reports on the Special Vehicle Team's latest pickup truck offering, the wider, taller, brawnier Raptor is optimized for Baja 1000 duty, from its fortified long-travel suspension and Fox Racing Shox to its BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A tires. But not all that many folks live near a swath of open desert. More potential buyers have handier access to dunes and trails in more humid climes, so Ford invited us to sling some mud at its Romeo Michigan Proving Ground during one of the wetter spring seasons on record, and then allowed us to hose the truck off and strap on our test gear to get some dry-pavement performance stats.
The day's exercises were chosen to highlight many of the Raptor's unique features, some of which were demonstrated on newly blazed trails and facilities conceived especially for this unique truck. Paved grades varying from 19 to 60 percent served to demonstrate SVT's interpretation of Hill Descent Control, which will hold any speed up to 20 mph. Just accelerate or brake to the exact speed you want and the system will dither the brakes to maintain it. HDC will also resume holding that speed if you accelerate to a speed above the 20-mph cutoff but under 40 mph (as when crossing a brief flat before descending again). The system switches off completely above 40 mph. It also works in reverse, but only at the minimum set speed of a few miles per hour.
On a big new gravel skidpad we had a chance to sample the three SVT-tuned AdvanceTrac modes: On, Sport, and Off, which behave like high-ground-clearance, 6100-pound riffs on Ferrari's On, Race, and CST-Off manettino settings. In fully On mode, the chassis is almost entirely immune to throttle-goosing or Finnish flicking of the steering wheel in corners; it responds to such shenanigans with easily controlled oversteer in Sport. Switch it off and it'll allow Baja 1000 victors to do Alex Zanardi-style donuts, spraying their fans with gravel.
The team agonized over the merits of fitting a single Terrain-Response-like selector with pre-packaged settings for all the electronic control variables, but decided to allow the driver greater freedom to mix and match variables like the stability control setting, rear differential locking, and tuning of engine and transmission responsiveness and behavior (via the Off-Road mode selector switch). It was the right decision, and Ford claims the Raptor is alone in allowing the electronic rear-differential lock to remain engaged all the way up to the vehicle's top speed (in Off-Road mode), whether operating in rear- or four-wheel drive.
Raptor's track widens more than its center of gravity rises, allowing its static roll-over rating to improve by one star relative to the F-150 FX4's.On Romeo's freshly minted "high-speed" course -- a huge undulating field peppered with table jumps and mud bogs -- we were able to heat those Fox Shox up and appreciate all three of their damping rates (as the shock piston passes three different relief-valve orifices near the bottom of its jounce travel, the damping rate ramps up gradually to slow the bodywork down before encountering the microcellular urethane jounce bumpers, all of which happens so softly it's almost hard to know when you've truly bottomed the suspension in most bumps and jump landings. The course was so demanding that with the AdvanceTrac off, 4WD Hi mode engaged, and rear diff unlocked (locking it provokes more throttle oversteer), I was sawing away at the wheel so hard I was sweaty after two laps.
Surprisingly, my most ardent flailing never managed to overpower the steering pump, despite its being carried over (along with the steering ratio) largely unchanged from standard F-150 duty save for a new cap design that reduces fluid frothing (which can lead to overflow). The power-assist level is slightly lower for greater road feel both on and off-road, however. During this exercise the standard-issue orange "center-finder" sewn into the steering-wheel cover at the 12-o'clock position on all Raptors (regardless of interior or exterior color) came in ever so handy.
The balance of the day was spent creeping, crawling, and blasting through various bogs, swamps, and mud fields. Airing the desert-optimized BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/As down from their 44-psi placard setting to 28 psi improves their mud performance without undue risk of unseating a tire bead (in pure sand running, you can lower them even further). They proved adequate to the task, though a couple of wet-grassy inclines nearly defeated a couple of our Raptors. Here again, the T/As are better on-road and in high-speed desert duty than a dedicated mud tire would be, and swapping tires is probably the simplest performance alteration an owner can perform if mud is to be his primary habitat, so this decision seems to have been a sound one. This exercise included plenty of opportunities to call on all 411 of the 6.2's horses to power through and out of the muckiest bogs. If the 91 extra horses and 44 added pound-feet of bog-extrication performance don't motivate you to sign on this $3000 line, the engine's spirited snarl surely should. Anyone opting for the base 5.4 will be bitterly disappointed if he ever samples a 6.2.
Our last stop was Ford's 2.5-mile concrete straightway, where this engine earned its three-grand asking price, propelling our 6100-pound test vehicle to 60 mph in just 6.5 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 15.1 seconds at 91.3 mph, clobbering the 5.4-liter's times by 1.8 seconds to 60 and 1.2 seconds and 6.2 mph in the quarter. Those times were generated in 4WD by the way, which proved 0.3 second quicker than the rear tires alone can accelerate this mass without immolating the tires. Braking distance was virtually unchanged at 143 feet from 60 mph.
This squeeze-cast aluminum part weighs about 30 pounds - that's 8.5 pounds MORE than the standard stamped steel ones weigh, but the strength is far greater. To ensure proper material flow into the critical area where those fancy Fox Shox bolt in, the casting is way thicker than necessary, requiring a surprising amount of rough machining. The anti-roll bar attachment is moved to the back side of the control arm where rocks and obstacles can't snag it.Raptor sales and orders to date total 7000, making this the most successful truck SVT has ever minted. This shouldn't surprise anyone because unlike its road-scorching hot-rod Lightning predecessors, Raptor sacrifices little if any half-ton truck capability (900-pound payload, 6000-pound towing). And it appears to be just as happy slinging mud as it is blurring cacti.
More 4-1-1 on the 411-horsepower Raptor...
?All 6.2-liters get two spark plugs per cylinder, but it's the Raptor that drove that design call. The two plugs fire simultaneously and permit a smoother idle than would be possible with one plug, given the Raptor's aggressive high-overlap cam profiles.
?Differences relative to the Super Duty 6.2-liter include the cam profiles, the exhaust system, calibration, and the use of a mechanical cooling fan (Raptor's are electric).
?The 6.2-liter (and the new 5.0-liter Coyote) V-8s use a new firing order that's gentler on the crankshaft in terms of torsional vibration frequencies. A side benefit is better interference of the exhaust pulses in the manifold that lend these engines a unique rasp.
..And its rear shock
Three bypass holes permit increased fluid displacement for more comfortable ride over smaller bumps. The two larger ones are blocked by a couple reed valves arranged like leaf springs that deflect to different degrees depending on the severity of the jounce. The smaller one in the middle is unimpeded. As the piston stokes past each of these holes, the damping rate increases. A single hole near the top of the travel provides a similar step change in rebound damping. The external reservoir on the rear shocks helps lower shock temperatures by increasing the amount of shock fluid. There's no room for such a reservoir in front. Fox taught Ford plenty about high-performance damping, but Ford reciprocated by teaching Fox a thing or two about 150,000-mile durability and ride comfort. One example: Ford engineered an auxiliary wiper seal that covers the top of the shock to clean dirt off the piston while wicking moisture away via small open channels, preserving Fox's internal seals.
Quote from: Nethead on May 18, 2010, 10:49:18 AM
From www.motortrend.com comes this pretty thorough test of the 6.2L Raptor:
First Test: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2
May 17, 2010 / By Frank Markus
As we've made abundantly clear by our first reports on the Special Vehicle Team's latest pickup truck offering, the wider, taller, brawnier Raptor is optimized for Baja 1000 duty, from its fortified long-travel suspension and Fox Racing Shox to its BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/A tires. But not all that many folks live near a swath of open desert. More potential buyers have handier access to dunes and trails in more humid climes, so Ford invited us to sling some mud at its Romeo Michigan Proving Ground during one of the wetter spring seasons on record, and then allowed us to hose the truck off and strap on our test gear to get some dry-pavement performance stats.
The day's exercises were chosen to highlight many of the Raptor's unique features, some of which were demonstrated on newly blazed trails and facilities conceived especially for this unique truck. Paved grades varying from 19 to 60 percent served to demonstrate SVT's interpretation of Hill Descent Control, which will hold any speed up to 20 mph. Just accelerate or brake to the exact speed you want and the system will dither the brakes to maintain it. HDC will also resume holding that speed if you accelerate to a speed above the 20-mph cutoff but under 40 mph (as when crossing a brief flat before descending again). The system switches off completely above 40 mph. It also works in reverse, but only at the minimum set speed of a few miles per hour.
On a big new gravel skidpad we had a chance to sample the three SVT-tuned AdvanceTrac modes: On, Sport, and Off, which behave like high-ground-clearance, 6100-pound riffs on Ferrari's On, Race, and CST-Off manettino settings. In fully On mode, the chassis is almost entirely immune to throttle-goosing or Finnish flicking of the steering wheel in corners; it responds to such shenanigans with easily controlled oversteer in Sport. Switch it off and it'll allow Baja 1000 victors to do Alex Zanardi-style donuts, spraying their fans with gravel.
The team agonized over the merits of fitting a single Terrain-Response-like selector with pre-packaged settings for all the electronic control variables, but decided to allow the driver greater freedom to mix and match variables like the stability control setting, rear differential locking, and tuning of engine and transmission responsiveness and behavior (via the Off-Road mode selector switch). It was the right decision, and Ford claims the Raptor is alone in allowing the electronic rear-differential lock to remain engaged all the way up to the vehicle's top speed (in Off-Road mode), whether operating in rear- or four-wheel drive.
Raptor's track widens more than its center of gravity rises, allowing its static roll-over rating to improve by one star relative to the F-150 FX4's.On Romeo's freshly minted "high-speed" course -- a huge undulating field peppered with table jumps and mud bogs -- we were able to heat those Fox Shox up and appreciate all three of their damping rates (as the shock piston passes three different relief-valve orifices near the bottom of its jounce travel, the damping rate ramps up gradually to slow the bodywork down before encountering the microcellular urethane jounce bumpers, all of which happens so softly it's almost hard to know when you've truly bottomed the suspension in most bumps and jump landings. The course was so demanding that with the AdvanceTrac off, 4WD Hi mode engaged, and rear diff unlocked (locking it provokes more throttle oversteer), I was sawing away at the wheel so hard I was sweaty after two laps.
Surprisingly, my most ardent flailing never managed to overpower the steering pump, despite its being carried over (along with the steering ratio) largely unchanged from standard F-150 duty save for a new cap design that reduces fluid frothing (which can lead to overflow). The power-assist level is slightly lower for greater road feel both on and off-road, however. During this exercise the standard-issue orange "center-finder" sewn into the steering-wheel cover at the 12-o'clock position on all Raptors (regardless of interior or exterior color) came in ever so handy.
The balance of the day was spent creeping, crawling, and blasting through various bogs, swamps, and mud fields. Airing the desert-optimized BFGoodrich All-Terrain T/As down from their 44-psi placard setting to 28 psi improves their mud performance without undue risk of unseating a tire bead (in pure sand running, you can lower them even further). They proved adequate to the task, though a couple of wet-grassy inclines nearly defeated a couple of our Raptors. Here again, the T/As are better on-road and in high-speed desert duty than a dedicated mud tire would be, and swapping tires is probably the simplest performance alteration an owner can perform if mud is to be his primary habitat, so this decision seems to have been a sound one. This exercise included plenty of opportunities to call on all 411 of the 6.2's horses to power through and out of the muckiest bogs. If the 91 extra horses and 44 added pound-feet of bog-extrication performance don't motivate you to sign on this $3000 line, the engine's spirited snarl surely should. Anyone opting for the base 5.4 will be bitterly disappointed if he ever samples a 6.2.
Our last stop was Ford's 2.5-mile concrete straightway, where this engine earned its three-grand asking price, propelling our 6100-pound test vehicle to 60 mph in just 6.5 seconds and through the quarter-mile in 15.1 seconds at 91.3 mph, clobbering the 5.4-liter's times by 1.8 seconds to 60 and 1.2 seconds and 6.2 mph in the quarter. Those times were generated in 4WD by the way, which proved 0.3 second quicker than the rear tires alone can accelerate this mass without immolating the tires. Braking distance was virtually unchanged at 143 feet from 60 mph.
This squeeze-cast aluminum part weighs about 30 pounds - that's 8.5 pounds MORE than the standard stamped steel ones weigh, but the strength is far greater. To ensure proper material flow into the critical area where those fancy Fox Shox bolt in, the casting is way thicker than necessary, requiring a surprising amount of rough machining. The anti-roll bar attachment is moved to the back side of the control arm where rocks and obstacles can't snag it.Raptor sales and orders to date total 7000, making this the most successful truck SVT has ever minted. This shouldn't surprise anyone because unlike its road-scorching hot-rod Lightning predecessors, Raptor sacrifices little if any half-ton truck capability (900-pound payload, 6000-pound towing). And it appears to be just as happy slinging mud as it is blurring cacti.
More 4-1-1 on the 411-horsepower Raptor...
?All 6.2-liters get two spark plugs per cylinder, but it's the Raptor that drove that design call. The two plugs fire simultaneously and permit a smoother idle than would be possible with one plug, given the Raptor's aggressive high-overlap cam profiles.
?Differences relative to the Super Duty 6.2-liter include the cam profiles, the exhaust system, calibration, and the use of a mechanical cooling fan (Raptor's are electric).
?The 6.2-liter (and the new 5.0-liter Coyote) V-8s use a new firing order that's gentler on the crankshaft in terms of torsional vibration frequencies. A side benefit is better interference of the exhaust pulses in the manifold that lend these engines a unique rasp.
..And its rear shock
Three bypass holes permit increased fluid displacement for more comfortable ride over smaller bumps. The two larger ones are blocked by a couple reed valves arranged like leaf springs that deflect to different degrees depending on the severity of the jounce. The smaller one in the middle is unimpeded. As the piston stokes past each of these holes, the damping rate increases. A single hole near the top of the travel provides a similar step change in rebound damping. The external reservoir on the rear shocks helps lower shock temperatures by increasing the amount of shock fluid. There's no room for such a reservoir in front. Fox taught Ford plenty about high-performance damping, but Ford reciprocated by teaching Fox a thing or two about 150,000-mile durability and ride comfort. One example: Ford engineered an auxiliary wiper seal that covers the top of the shock to clean dirt off the piston while wicking moisture away via small open channels, preserving Fox's internal seals.
OMG OMG OMG.
This reads more like a Ford Press release than an independent publication.
I can't say that I've designed dyno's like cougs, but I worked with them pretty extensively in testing. I'm going to have to agree, they're not really all that accurate at all. Granted, the ones I was using were for small electric motors, but the possible hysteresis error on those things were through the roof. I actually figured out the total accuracy of them and they were abysmal. And that's with calibrated equipment. It was mostly just to make the customer happy to see a number, or to verify something wasn't seriously wrong with each motor.
Quote from: MrH on May 18, 2010, 03:05:51 PM
I can't say that I've designed dyno's like cougs, but I worked with them pretty extensively in testing. I'm going to have to agree, they're not really all that accurate at all. Granted, the ones I was using were for small electric motors, but the possible hysteresis error on those things were through the roof. I actually figured out the total accuracy of them and they were abysmal. And that's with calibrated equipment. It was mostly just to make the customer happy to see a number, or to verify something wasn't seriously wrong with each motor.
MrH: Yeah, that's why the Nethead here generally relies upon the engine dyno results verified by SAE testing, which for the 2011 Mustang's DOHC TiVCT 5.0 is 412 HP and 390 lbs ft of torque. Chassis dyno readings throw in more variables no matter what type of chassis dyno is used, and then there's the never-ending arguments about which gear is the proper gear for testing: Should it be the highest gear in the gearbox, or the gear in the gearbox that's closest to 1:1, or yada yada yada?
Outside of the SAE's engine dyno test certification, Motor Trend seems to have the best procedure of taking all vehicles to the same company, K&N of filter fame, for chassis dyno tests because as a filter company K&N presumably has no horse in the race, so to speak.
While that's all well and good, there's still the issue of drivetrain losses, and I reckon that's refined guesswork unless the testers also manage to somehow connect up an engine dyno to a test vehicle that's already strapped to a chassis dyno and then compare the results of the two sets of dyno readings. Has anyone ever done that? What are the odds: slim versus none?
Quote from: Nethead on May 19, 2010, 11:51:30 AM
MrH: Yeah, that's why the Nethead here generally relies upon the engine dyno results verified by SAE testing, which for the 2011 Mustang's DOHC TiVCT 5.0 is 412 HP and 390 lbs ft of torque. Chassis dyno readings throw in more variables no matter what type of chassis dyno is used, and then there's the never-ending arguments about which gear is the proper gear for testing: Should it be the highest gear in the gearbox, or the gear in the gearbox that's closest to 1:1, or yada yada yada?
Outside of the SAE's engine dyno test certification, Motor Trend seems to have the best procedure of taking all vehicles to the same company, K&N of filter fame, for chassis dyno tests because as a filter company K&N presumably has no horse in the race, so to speak.
While that's all well and good, there's still the issue of drivetrain losses, and I reckon that's refined guesswork unless the testers also manage to somehow connect up an engine dyno to a test vehicle that's already strapped to a chassis dyno and then compare the results of the two sets of dyno readings. Has anyone ever done that? What are the odds: slim versus none?
K&N's chassis dyno is a Dynojet which are notorious for really high readings which is why every vehicle they test there comes back with ridiculously high numbers. They also didn't test the Msutang GT in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear, and instead they tested it in 4th gear which could also help explain the high numbers. The other thing is that tuners and aftermarket parts manufacturers purposefully use Dynojet to make their numbers look good. Use a Mustang Dyno which widely regarded as the most accurate of an inaccurate product. The only thing chassis dynos are really good for is telling you how much difference your mods are making after you get a baseline and always use the same dyno for your testing.
Quote from: Submariner on May 18, 2010, 11:06:32 AM
OMG OMG OMG.
This reads more like a Ford Press release than an independent publication.
After meeting some people in the auto journalism industry, I'm afraid it's much dryer than we're all led to believe -- e.g. he who has the cars and advertising money is a friend of an "unbiased" publication. The only really unbiased ones out there are the Brit pubs...because the BBC is with Top Gear and Car and Evo are forced to follow suit, lest they been seen as fake.
We don't have that luxury in the US. That's why Top Gear TV on the History Channel will fail.
Dynamometer deliberations aside, Jalopnik drove a 6.2L Raptor in the wet, and summed up the ride in this blog:
2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2: First Mud Bath
Externally, the 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is indistinguishable from the 2010 model. But under its skin lives a brand-new, 6.2-liter, 411-hp V-8. We didn't desert race it, but we did cover it in two inches of mud.
Spring in Michigan can be very hard to live with ? it's the kind of weather that turns a man's thoughts to cheap beach houses in South America. It had been pissing a cold, hateful rain for three days in Detroit. This would normally be a downer on a first drive, especially one focused on a high-performance product from Ford's SVT division.
The product is the new up-powered Ford Raptor. This made it a brilliant day for a drive.
When the Raptor debuted two years ago, its brash courting of danger was a bit shocking ? how had Ford's lawyers let it get away with designing a truck whose advertisements almost exclusively pictured it in mid-air? This ? a desert-focused repli-racer ? was a whole new avenue of performance, and the truck didn't disappoint. The only trouble was the powerplant.
When the 5.4-liter Triton V-8 debuted in 1997 with the newly jelly-beaned F-150, it was hailed for its power delivery and fuel-economy improvements over the outgoing 5.0-liter. That was 14 years ago, however, and the 320 hp and 390 lb-ft the engine developed in the Raptor just left the truck feeling a little flat.
That all changes right now. Let's just come out and say it: The Raptor fitted with a 6.2 is the equivalent of shooting bottle rockets at a gas station: It's powerful, angry, malicious, tacky, and on the fun scale, just this side of owning a surface-to-air-rocket launcher. A faster Mustang? That's great. A Taurus SHO? Chubby but nice. But the 6.2 Raptor is different ? it's meaner, way more stupid, and hell of a lot more dangerous to pilot.
The 6.2-liter eight is an all-new design with a cast-iron block and aluminum heads, two valves per cylinder, a cast-iron crank, and cast aluminum pistons. It's got two spark plugs per cylinder and cranks out a healthy 411-hp and 430 lb-ft of torque. It's backed by a six-speed automatic transmission.
Recall now the rain we mentioned earlier. We tested this pissed-off F-150 at Ford's Romeo proving ground with dirt so soggy it wiggled like Jell-O. Yeah, we got a bit muddy. Switch the transfer case to 4-High, engage the electronic rear locking differential, push the "off-road mode" button to deliver a more aggressive shifting schedule, and push the Advance Trac button once to enter sport mode. After that, floor the accelerator and enjoy four roostertails of mud erupting along a graceful flight path. Where the 5.4-liter Raptor would understeer in low-traction situations, lacking the grunt to easily move the rear end around, the 6.2 will turn a happy pirouette with the right application of loud pedal. It also sounds damn good, a throaty and urgent exhaust note tumbling out the rear pipes.
With traction control fully engaged, the truck clamps down hard on any chassis excitement, killing engine power and locking things down. In Sport mode, however, things can get really, really crazy. The system opens up the yaw limit for righteous oversteer and significantly loosens the ABS threshold. This is one of the few instances where a vehicle performs better in sport mode than with the nanny systems fully defeated. With all the nannies killed it's really easy to overcook a gravel apex or find yourself facing the wrong way against a one-way tree.
Everything we loved about the '10 Raptor is still there: The huge 2.5-inch Fox Racing shocks and beefy SVT control arms work in concert to soak up even the nastiest whoops and drop-offs, and they provide buttery-soft landings once you air down the tires. With a long-travel suspension delivering 12.1 inches of travel up front and 11.2 in the rear, you'd expect body roll to be excessive and sloppy, but in quick transitions, the truck simply rolls to the side and plants firmly.
The thing we found most surprising, however, was the Raptor's talent on tight forest trails. Normally, rolling a full-size truck through slippery, tree-packed trails is not a question of if you're going to bash something, but when. The Raptor rides on a relatively short 133-inch wheelbase, and despite the additional seven inches of width over a standard F-150, it doesn't feel overwhelming in tight spots. Sight lines are good, and the huge mirrors can be adjusted to spot the rear wheels. Even though the Raptor rides on 35-inch BF Goodrich tires, its engineers managed to come up with an impressively tight turning radius.
The trouble with the Raptor is that there's nothing to compare it with short of a full Baja race rig. By mid-July, Ford should be dropping its Raptor Crew Cab, which is promised to have another 12 inches of wheelbase, real rear doors, and more back-seat legroom, closing off the only possible avenue for complaint. Well, that and the fact that the steps very effectively act as a mud shelf. The 6.2.-liter mill brings along a $3,000 premium, but we suspect the vast majority of Raptor buyers will check that box going forward.
They'll be getting their money's worth. The 2011 Raptor is a far more satisfying machine with this new engine, and easily the most entertaining product you can be in when the pavement ends.
:wub:
Quote from: SVT666 on May 19, 2010, 12:26:26 PM
K&N's chassis dyno is a Dynojet which are notorious for really high readings which is why every vehicle they test there comes back with ridiculously high numbers. They also didn't test the Msutang GT in 5th gear which is the 1:1 gear, and instead they tested it in 4th gear which could also help explain the high numbers. The other thing is that tuners and aftermarket parts manufacturers purposefully use Dynojet to make their numbers look good. Use a Mustang Dyno which widely regarded as the most accurate of an inaccurate product. The only thing chassis dynos are really good for is telling you how much difference your mods are making after you get a baseline and always use the same dyno for your testing.
:confused: Don't tell you don't think they take gear ratios into account when throwing a car on a dyno...
Quote from: MrH on May 23, 2010, 11:53:32 AM
:confused: Don't tell you don't think they take gear ratios into account when throwing a car on a dyno...
Here's how automotive enthusiast world get all filled up with myths, misconceptions and flat-out technical tomfoolery...
Inside Line's Dyno-test Blog w/comments with an erroneously high chassis dyno test of the '11 Mustang GT (http://blogs.insideline.com/straightline/2010/03/inside-line-dyno-tests-the-2011-ford-mustang-gt-50.html):
Some bloke carries on about how a the high numbers are as a result of not using a 1:1 ratio:
Quote rrocket says:
09:19 PM, 03/24/10
I'm right....because in this case it's a Dynojet. On a Dynojet, it uses a mathematical equation based on the known weight of the rollers and acceleration of said rollers. If you use a gear that accelerates faster (in this case 4th gear instead of 5th gear) the rollers will spin up quicker (accelerate) and skew the numbers in a positive way. The opposite would happen if you used 6th gear (.65:1)...you'd have lower numbers.
On other dynoes, like Dynapack and Mustang, they are less sensitive to gearing as they use a different method of calculating the HP. But the Dynojet is VERY sensitive and you must use a 1:1 ratio (or as close as possible) so as not to skew numbers.
Inside Line and Mr. Kavanagh dropped the ball on this one. Shame.
Wow is this ever :facepalm: Just awful.
The Inside Line engineer who ran the test responds:
QuoteJason Kavanagh replied to comment from rrocket
10:14 PM, 03/24/10
The Dynojet itself doesn't care what gear the car's in. Remember, there's a final drive gear reduction after the transmission, which further alters the wheelspeed - engine speed relationship beyond what the transmission does, so there's nothing magical about 1:1.
In fact, dynoing in a gear that's 1:1 usually results in a hair less (yes, less) driveline loss as its a more (the most) efficient ratio in the gearbox. That's why a lot of dyno operators like the 1:1 ratio. Plus, when using an inertia dyno like a Dynojet, higher gear ratios have a lower rate of acceleration, so less power is soaked up in accelerating the rotating masses, which further props the numbers up.
Higher gears do tend to result in higher tire losses since the wheelspeed is higher... at this point all you're doing is trading off one loss mechanism for another. Generally, though, what I've seen come out in the wash is that on an inertia dyno, higher gears will result in higher numbers than lower gears.
Furthermore, higher gears also load the engine for a longer duration, requiring more cooldown, plus put more heat stress on driven tires. As the dyno operator, I don't like either of those things.
This is better, but still awful, especially for an "engineer." He's correct the gear ratio doesn't matter and it's a good point about faster wheel speed of a higher gear will eat up some power, but he's wrong about 1:1 being the most efficient gear and he gets an absolute "F" for being an "engineer" for the bolded statement.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
That's painful to read. :facepalm:
Quote from: GoCougs on May 23, 2010, 12:32:15 PM
This is better, but still awful, especially for an "engineer." He's correct the gear ratio doesn't matter and it's a good point about faster wheel speed of a higher gear will eat up some power, but he's wrong about 1:1 being the most efficient gear and he gets an absolute "F" for being an "engineer" for the bolded statement.
:facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm:
No, there is some truth to the 1:1 gear being the most efficient. In some trannies, the "gear" that is 1:1 really is just locking the input shaft to the output shaft rather then going through a secondary shaft.
Quote from: r0tor on May 24, 2010, 09:40:53 AM
No, there is some truth to the 1:1 gear being the most efficient. In some trannies, the "gear" that is 1:1 really is just locking the input shaft to the output shaft rather then going through a secondary shaft.
But any dynamic mechanical interface; cv joint to spur gear to cam lobe; will have an inefficiency. I have a real hard time believing that the inefficiency of a spur gear interface is materially any different than the shaft locking interface, especially considering all the other sources of inefficiency and inaccuracy of a chassis dyno.
My hunch remains the 1:1 issue is borne of the first response posted from the Edmunds blog - that the concept of power in = power out less a wee bit of efficiency of a gear box is lost on many.
a helical gear efficiency is usually in the low 99% range if I remember right when given the right operating parameters... Anyone "in the know" would realize the difference should be ~1%, but sometimes that 2-3 hp might make a big difference for product advertising or bragging rights so a decent dyno operator will usually go for the 1:1 ratio when given the choice.
There are so many ways to throw off a dyno that its not funny. Tire pressures is a very easy one. Fluid temps are another - everyone pays attention to coolant or engine oil temps because the car usually has a gauge for them - but the real bugger is the damn 90 weight oil in the diff and transmission that can throw things off by 10% sometimes.... After that, some dynos are never calibrated at all or calibrated poorly, the operator can input wrong information, weather corrections can be tweaked or ignored, ect ect...
Quote from: r0tor on May 24, 2010, 11:11:58 AM
a helical gear efficiency is usually in the low 99% range if I remember right when given the right operating parameters... Anyone "in the know" would realize the difference should be ~1%, but sometimes that 2-3 hp might make a big difference for product advertising or bragging rights so a decent dyno operator will usually go for the 1:1 ratio when given the choice.
But locking two shafts together, however it is done, will have efficiency loss too - so the difference isn't 100% efficiency vs. 99% efficiency.
Quote
There are so many ways to throw off a dyno that its not funny. Tire pressures is a very easy one. Fluid temps are another - everyone pays attention to coolant or engine oil temps because the car usually has a gauge for them - but the real bugger is the damn 90 weight oil in the diff and transmission that can throw things off by 10% sometimes.... After that, some dynos are never calibrated at all or calibrated poorly, the operator can input wrong information, weather corrections can be tweaked or ignored, ect ect...
The single biggest problem IMO is inertia difference - an engine that dynos at 300 rwhp in a Mustang will yield a far lower number in an F350 dually - the added inertia of the vastly larger/heavier wheels and tires, and the the beefier/longer drive shaft, transmission and axles, will suck up a lot of acceleration yet not suck up an ounce of power.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 24, 2010, 11:43:52 AM
The single biggest problem IMO is inertia difference - an engine that dynos at 300 rwhp in a Mustang will yield a far lower number in an F350 duallyof power.
umm thats actually the biggest advantage of a chassis dyno vs an engine dyno... you know what your putting to the pavement
Quote from: r0tor on May 24, 2010, 01:26:05 PM
umm thats actually the biggest advantage of a chassis dyno vs an engine dyno... you know what your putting to the pavement
Actually, increased drive train inertia does not decrease power to the street. 22" (i.e., bigger, heavier) wagon wheels on a Mustang GT will show probably a "loss" of ~10-15+ hp on a chassis dyno versus the stockers but the reality is there is exactly zero power loss. How so? A chassis dyno works by calculating torque by simply measuring the acceleration of a known inertia (drum) under the guise of the equation:
Torque (T) = polar moment of inertia (J) x angular acceleration (α).
The false read comes by way of the dyno not knowing system inertia has increased; it simply sees acceleration has decreased and given the same inertia torque will be calculated to be (falsely) lower. To be operated properly the system inertia in the calculation must be increased. THIS readjusted inertia, along with the corresponding slower acceleration will result in the proper torque calculation. Do nothing with inertia and the dyno will give a falsely lower torque.
The reality is a properly built, programmed and operated chassis (inertial) dyno must have provisions for adjusting system inertia. The practical problems for a retail piece of equipment however is that the concept of inertia is hard to grasp, and determining and/or calculating it for a lighter driveshaft or heavier wheel is even harder. I don?t even know if the typical tuner chassis dyno has provisions for adjusting inertia; I suspect not.
The linear analogy is this - adding 200 lbs to Mustang GT will decrease its 1/4 mile time and trap speed a bit. By adding this mass did power output decrease? Nope. Ditto for 22? wagon wheels vs. 18? stockers. The Mustang will accelerate the dyno drum slower (and will accelerate slower on the strip as well) but power to the street remains exactly the same.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 24, 2010, 02:33:08 PM
The Mustang will accelerate the dyno drum slower (and will accelerate slower on the strip as well) but power to the street remains exactly the same.
yes it will do both of those things... if you look at a car as a sum of individual inertias, i guess you can argue both cars have the same power but one just has more inertia so its slower. However thats fairly pointless as all we care about is getting a 3,000 pound lump of metal down a 1/4 mile stretch of road in as little time as possible and the effective power to the ground a chassis dyno shows will show you this.
Quote from: r0tor on May 24, 2010, 04:20:11 PM
yes it will do both of those things... if you look at a car as a sum of individual inertias, i guess you can argue both cars have the same power but one just has more inertia so its slower. However thats fairly pointless as all we care about is getting a 3,000 pound lump of metal down a 1/4 mile stretch of road in as little time as possible and the effective power to the ground a chassis dyno shows will show you this.
There is no arguing which has more power however; inertia does not affect power. My point in geeking out on this was to stop the propagation of myth; yes, a lighter drive shaft will result in slightly quicker acceleration but it's not because it increases RWHP as incorrectly indicated by a chassis dyno.
A proper constructed dyno, which I've done personally, is able backdrive the system with a motor to get the total inertia (= drive at constant torque and measure angular accel) and total friction (= drive at constant speed and measure torque) and factor each into T=J * α to get a much more accurate torque value.
Quote from: CALL_911 on April 19, 2009, 12:59:37 PM
That looks like something a freaking 10-year-old would design.
I agree with you there. It's awful.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 24, 2010, 05:41:08 PM
There is no arguing which has more power however; inertia does not affect power. My point in geeking out on this was to stop the propagation of myth; yes, a lighter drive shaft will result in slightly quicker acceleration but it's not because it increases RWHP as incorrectly indicated by a chassis dyno.
A proper constructed dyno, which I've done personally, is able backdrive the system with a motor to get the total inertia (= drive at constant torque and measure angular accel) and total friction (= drive at constant speed and measure torque) and factor each into T=J * α to get a much more accurate torque value.
and then if you want to actually do anything useful with those numbers to figure out what a vehicles performance is, you take your ultra correct engine output and subtract all your inertial and friction losses to find what will actually drive the vehicle forward.... aka what a chassis dyno more or less will show
Quote from: r0tor on May 25, 2010, 07:13:34 AM
and then if you want to actually do anything useful with those numbers to figure out what a vehicles performance is, you take your ultra correct engine output and subtract all your inertial and friction losses to find what will actually drive the vehicle forward.... aka what a chassis dyno more or less will show
Inertia isn't a loss though. To get real vehicle performance, one can simply just use the acceleration of the drum.
Using an artificially high/low torque/power number is what creates myths, and I will rail against such things at every opportunity.
But I will agree that a chassis dyno's numbers can be somewhat useful in a relative sense. For absolute numbers a chassis dyno is virtually worthless though.
no, interia is a loss known as "inertial losses". Draw a black box over the entire car. You are given there is 300hp in the black box. Its acceleration shows it only moved with a peak power of 260hp. All ponies between 260 and 300 were lost somewhere.
The "virtually worthless" absolute numbers of a chassis dyno or of a BlowCougs posting aside, here's the www.autoblogs.com test of a Raptor in the mud:
First Drive: 2010 Ford SVT Raptor 6.2 is born to fly
by Rex Roy (RSS feed) on May 25th 2010 at 11:57 AM
Unless you're a died-in-the-burlap save-the-planet kind of person, you probably think the 2010 Ford SVT Raptor is freakin' cool. There's not a factory truck on the planet that can wing across the desert floor with equal ease, grace and unmitigated speed.
The 2010 Raptor genuinely has no competition In the world of production trucks, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved. If you bent the ear of the right Ford engineer, he would admit that the 2010 SVT Raptor was supposed to launch with the 6.2-liter SOHC V8 we're testing today. The aging 310-horsepower 5.4-liter Triton mill included at launch was never the perfect fit for the radical Raptor. Too tame.
From the truck's introduction last Fall, everyone knew the all-new iron-block/aluminum-head 6.2-liter engine would be better. But no one knew how much better until now. Read about our wild test drive (and brief flight) after the ummm... jump.
Ford Motor Company invited the press to its Romeo, Michigan proving grounds with the intent to demonstrate that the 2010 SVT Raptor was a more than just an exceptional desert runner (as if that weren't enough). Slogging through narrow, rutted and muddy trails was further proof that the Raptor is plenty comfortable in typical Midwestern off-road environs. Our time at the 3000+ acre site also included the chance to flat-foot the new 6.2-liter V8 to see what 411 horsepower felt like. In a word: good.
But of all the driving we enjoyed, the most entertaining moment was launching the Raptor into the air after completing a high-speed off-road course. One can only imagine the conversations engineers must have had with Ford's legal team to get this event approved.
Engineers: We want the press to drive the Raptor off a ramp so fast that all four wheels leave the ground.
Lawyers: Are you nuts?
Engineers: The truck is designed to be driven that way. We know because we include a large jump at the end of our standard durability loop. Our test trucks have done the cycle thousands of times.
Lawyers: So? It's not the truck we're worried about. We're talking about the press. Half of those guys can't even parallel park. The ones from New York don't even have driver's licenses. You want to let them launch a 6,000-pound truck at some crazy speed? Are you guys nuts?!
Engineers: We'll ride with them.
Lawyers: Okay, you are nuts.
Here's how the experience went down (up?): After exiting a slippery right-hand corner consisting of wet grass and mud, you aimed the truck between two pylons at the top of a gravel ramp. The faster you were going, the higher and farther you'd fly. Following a rainstorm similar to one we've read about in the Bible, a low area just ahead of the ramp was filled with standing water and thick mud. To hit the ramp properly required getting hard on the throttle through the sticky stuff, which did all it could to knock the truck sideways.
Going over the ramp at anything but dead-nuts square virtually assured disaster. Landing on one wheel might cause the Raptor to corkscrew into the ground, instigating an unpleasant, cab-crushing roll.
There would be no blown-out windows today.
With the optional ($3,000) 6.2-liter V8 howling under the Raptor's vented hood, we hit the ramp spot on. The suspension fully compressed and then I heard it ... Wagner's Ride of the Valkyries. Or angels. At that very moment, the wheels hung at the end of the suspension's rebound travel, poised to ease the truck's landing. The truck flew about 20 yards before returning to very terra firma. The landing used all of the suspension travel (11.2-inches front, 12.1-inches rear). And then some. This gallery photo reveals a once-flat front skid plate returned from the jump concave.
The lawyers could breath a collective sigh of relief. Nobody died. Not even the guys from New York.
We've already written extensively about the Raptor's new engine, covering its fitment to the 2011 Ford Super Duty, the high-volume truck the engine was really designed for. Important details include the enlarged, two-valve cylinder heads utilizing a twin-plug design for cleaner combustion, variable timing for the single overhead cams (a total delta of 43? to improve power output), and roller rocker followers (reduces friction). Engineers told us that they considered four-valve heads, but that they'd be too large to fit in the existing F-Series engine bay.
The Raptor gets its own version of the 6.2-liter that uses unique cams with identical lobe profiles, but separates the intake and exhaust valve operation with greater overlap for more power. Additionally, the Raptor's V8 gets an electric radiator fan (compared to a crank-driven unit) and a special premium-fuel engine management program with more aggressive fuel and ignition maps.
These changes result in 411 horsepower compared to 385 hp for the Super Duty. Torque increases to 434 pound-feet from 405 lb-ft. Run on regular fuel, the SVT's rate of work drops to 401 hp with no drop in torque. Compared to the standard 5.4-liter V8's 310 hp and 365 lb-ft torque, the 6.2 provides a huge boost. (Some outlets publish 320-hp and 390 lb-ft torque for the 5.4-liter, but this is generated running E85).
Regardless, who doesn't love another 101 horsepower?
Nearly every suspension component was changed to handle the motor's extra grunt. Engineers tweaked spring rates and the action of the internal bypass Fox dampers to make sure there wasn't undue pitch under the truck's increased power. If the old truck was good for 0-60 mph times in the mid-eight second range, the 6.2-liter should do it about a second less.
As with base Raptors, power runs through a six-speed 6R80 gearbox, shift-on-the-fly transfer case, 4.11 gear set and 9 3/4-inch rear axle. Electronic controls give drivers better command of the truck's hardware, including a sport mode for the stability control system and a special off-road setting. Additionally, the rear axle features electric-locking that operates in 2WD, 4WD High, and 4WD Low. Standard hill descent control works in Drive as well as Reverse, providing a fully automatic "speed control" for safely descending steep grades. All electronic nannies can be de-powered, leaving control totally in the hands (and feet) of the pilot.
Twisting the ignition brings forth a recognizable V8 rumble. The change in cams sexes up the rumpa-rumpa of the idle, although curiously, that more aggressive idle is the only clue that there's a mightier engine under the hood. There are no exterior badges, special exhaust pipes or other identifiers. A minor oversight? We think so. And it's not like the Raptor was designed to fly under the radar in the first place.
At wide-open throttle, the idle burble expands to a roar that reminds aging drivers of a sound from yesteryear: secondaries opening on a four-barrel carburetor. The noise confirms that power is getting to the massive 35-inch BF Goodrich All-Terrain tires that feature proprietary construction developed just for the Raptor. On normal roads, the exhaust and induction noises remain subdued, as does the noise from the BFGs. In the cab, occupants remain comfortable in the deeply contoured buckets that provide more bolstering than regular F-150 seats.
Aside from the extra 101 hp, the 6.2-liter Raptor is nearly identical to the base truck dynamically. On road the suspension is soft, floating over the tarmac ? regardless of the condition of the surface ? and never feels out of control. The steering isn't Porsche 911 precise or tactile, but it gets the job done with a lightness that belies the truck's three-ton mass. To make too much of these nicks misses the point of the Raptor's design intent. The on-road ride is compromised to enable its off-road capabilities, a trade-off some drivers are eager to make.
Engineers told us that the only change they made to the trucks used for the PR event was airing down the tires from 44 psi to 28 psi. The Raptor's tires are certified for highway use at either inflation level, but the low-tire-pressure warning lamp stays on at the lower level to remind the driver to air up when the off-road fun is over.
If the new 6.2-liter V8 exposes anything about the 2010 SVT Raptor, it's that the truck's chassis could probably handle another 100 horsepower. Or 101. At some point during our drive time, even the big engine felt stressed through the thickest mud at speeds that would make Walker Evans or Rod Hall proud. Perhaps the aftermarket will be quick to offer a supercharger for the 6.2? We think yes.
Whether Saleen or some other tuner steps up to the plate, the reality is that anybody considering the $38,020 base Raptor should cough up another $3,000 for the 6.2-liter engine option. It's a must-have feature with no downsides, a fact born out by Ford's recent announcement that the crew cab version of the 2011 Raptor will only be available with the larger engine.
We wonder if the longer-wheelbase truck will fly as well as the extended cab. And we can't wait to find out.
:wub: I want to jump a truck 20 yards. I really really want to.
www.pickuptrucks.com liked the 6.2L Raptor so much that they've done a second off-road test of the 6.2L Raptor in the mud:
Second Drive: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2
Posted by Mike Levine | May 24, 2010
Yeah, we're a bit obsessed. We've never covered a specific truck as in-depth as we have the remarkable Ford F-150 SVT Raptor off-road pickup. It's unlike any rig that's come before it, and Ford continues a steady cadence of adding new features to the truck. We recently road and dyno tested the new 411-horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 truck with 434 pounds-feet of torque, and Ford has (finally) confirmed a SuperCrew version is on the way for 2011.
Nearly all of our extreme excursions behind the Raptor's wheel have been in California's Mojave Desert, where it was born to excel on sandy trails at high speeds. We've never pushed the Raptor to its limits in wet, muddy terrain, which at first seemed more than a few ticks outside of the Raptor's comfort zone.
Ford invited us to its Michigan Proving Grounds, north of Detroit to thrash the Raptor 6.2 across MPG's secluded woodlands; we paid the cost of our travel and lodging. We expected a day of challenges at lower speeds than usual, but what wasn't anticipated was how nasty the weather conditions would be. Under a steady downpour most of the day, we hit some of the greasiest, snottiest and muddiest single tracks and fields that we've dared to drive on, but we were comfortable with the knowledge that if we got stuck help was only a few hundred yards away.
Our navigator and adviser for the day was Gene Martindale, Ford SVT lead test driver. Martindale has played a critical role developing and refining the Raptor's off-road driving dynamics and knows the truck's limits and capabilities about as well as anyone on the planet.
We drove the Raptor looking for its boundaries.
One of the only compromises that Ford had to make developing the Raptor was the tire choice. The Raptor ships wearing BFGoodrich All Terrain T/A 315/70R17 tires with massive sidewalls and deep tread for maximum traction on sand or rocks and ride comfort on the road, but they're not the optimal choice for rain-soaked trail conditions.
"We thought about mud tires for the Raptor," Martindale said. "They work awesome in mud, but they sucked at the trade-offs. They were horrible in grass. They were horrible in sand. They were horrible on the pavement. They were horrible in snow. They only worked in the mud, whereas the BFG All Terrain worked everywhere, though it's biggest weakness was mud. It's kind of a bummer but for those who use the Raptor in the mud, they'll put on MTs."
The 6.2 Raptor we drove was bone stock with the standard BFG ATs. They weren't the best choice for the drive but they didn't cripple the truck, and Martindale shared some driving tips that we can pass along if you ever decide to drive a Raptor in similar conditions.
Rule No. 1: Wheeling in thick muck seems counterintuitive at first, but it can mean the difference between crossing a challenge successfully and calling for help. The trick is to keep your foot in the throttle instead of trying to gingerly crawl through a sticky spot.
We were in the lead truck snaking up and down tight trails and water had pooled in almost every trough we crossed. The downhill portions of most troughs were slick from nonstop runoff, so the Raptor slid, even with the brakes clamped down. At the bottom, the mud tried to suck the truck down to its rims. Climbing out meant fighting gravity, suction and a distinct lack of friction. Our only hope was to modulate the throttle between 60 to 80 percent of max pedal travel, using wheel spin to clear slimy debris as quickly as possible from the AT's tightly packed treads and dig down into the mud to find clay or sand for grip below the soupy surface layers.
The 6.2-liter V-8 shines as the power engine for the Raptor. Where the base 5.4-liter V-8 tops out at only 310 hp (on regular unleaded) to move the Raptor's three-tons, we took full advantage of the 6.2's 411 hp (on premium unleaded and 401 hp on regular gas) and broad torque curve to variably grab as much assist as we needed to gain traction. What might have required wide-open throttle from the 5.4 in certain spots -- to ensure we wouldn't slide backward -- could be dialed in with variable application of the accelerator that provided a margin for extra power to keep momentum up and the ability to ramp down when it seemed we might mow down a tree or three. Still, there were instances where we'd fully roll our foot and could feel and hear the engine bear down, yet we'd only traveled inches forward in the mud as the Raptor clawed for traction.
In one nasty gully that I couldn't find an escape route through, Martindale showed me just how well he knew the Raptor as he rapidly modulated the throttle and shifted between forward and Reverse to gain traction with the barest availability of grip.
The Raptor?s second rule of mudding was to cut corners much earlier than usual on virgin trails, especially when entering turns at high speeds. Instead of using wheel spin to clean out the tires, we scrubbed speed from the truck by easing off the accelerator and allowing the mud to suck the truck down. Turning the wheel didn't immediately turn the truck, which proceeded along a straight path until the tires stopped hydroplaning and dug in. There were instances where it seemed to take up to 2 or 3 seconds before the Raptor would move along the path the front wheels were trying to steer it on.
But the second rule changed as we looped back and forth along the same trails with our large group of Raptors. As each truck followed the line of the truck in front of it, deep ruts were quickly carved into the soil. Soon enough, we weren't floating over the mud like ice skaters. Instead, we were locked into our path like a freight train and one wrong flick of the wheel at speeds up to 50 mph could have thrown us out of the ditch and onto our backs. Sometimes, you're just along for the ride.
The final rule was that wheeling the Raptor in mud was more fun that we thought it could be. In the second half of the day, we were able to run a high-speed loop over open ground at speeds up to 70 mph on trails etched in soggy fields, kicking up thick, brown rooster tails behind us and caking the truck in mud until we almost couldn't see any of its bright white paint.
After completing our turn steering the Raptor, we were treated to a hot lap with Martindale at the wheel in a Raptor equipped with Mud Terrain tires. The difference in performance was amazing with a race-experience driver in the left seat and rolling stock that shed mud like water at low speeds. If we owned a Raptor in the Midwest, we'd keep a set of MTs on hand to swap them out like summer and winter tires.
Of course, there were also unique technological helpers that made driving the Raptor in these tough conditions easier. The Raptor's unique off-road mode doesn't just change the six-speed automatic transmission's shift points so the truck performs like a desert racer; it also changes the antilock braking system's performance to allow the wheels to lock up at lower speeds and gain traction from the ground instead of firing the calipers until the truck stops, potentially allowing it to skate off a trail. In the stickiest spots, we called upon the rear electronic locking differential to provide extra traction assist. In another exercise, we simply steered the truck down a 45 percent concrete grade as the Raptor's hill descent control automatically braked the truck to hold its speed downhill.
Now that we've pushed the 6.2-liter Raptor hard in the desert and wet woodlands, what would we change? We've got a few minor nits to pick.
When the rain was at its worst and mud splashed up over the hood and onto the windshield, we'd have liked the windshield wipers to cycle faster than their fastest setting. There was more than one occasion where we were flying blind for a second of two longer than we felt comfortable until the front glass could be cleared.
As we took advantage of all of the Raptor's unique off-road settings, the same chime sounded to activate or deactivate hill descent control and off-road mode. We'd like unique chimes so you can tell by ear if you've accidentally enabled or disabled a mode. When you're adrenalin is going, visual cues can be overlooked.
We've said it once before, but we think the 6.2-liter Raptors need a badge of some type to differentiate them from the 5.4-liter trucks. At one point one of the 6.2 trucks had to be swapped for another and the only way we could locate a replacement truck from a mixed group of trucks was to pop the hoods and see which engines they had.
Just a bit further out, Ford has promised that the next evolution of its awesome Sync infotainment system, called MyFordTouch, will feature custom apps that you'll be able to download, which is similar to the apps for an Apple iPhone. We'd like someone to create a "booby trap" app, so when you're traveling with a pack of Raptors one press of a button on a lead truck can wirelessly tell those behind what to avoid -- just like the navigation systems used in the Baja 1000.
Overall, the 6.2 Raptor, which starts at $41,995, is just about as perfect as it can be for its job. It's well worth the $3,000 premium over the 5.4 Raptor. There is nothing that has changed our mind that this would be our next truck if we were shopping for the best cross between fun and capability in a full-size pickup.
And now we know that the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor isn't just a good desert racer, it's also one bad mudder of a pickup.
Quote from: r0tor on May 25, 2010, 10:56:41 AM
no, interia is a loss known as "inertial losses". Draw a black box over the entire car. You are given there is 300hp in the black box. Its acceleration shows it only moved with a peak power of 260hp. All ponies between 260 and 300 were lost somewhere.
That's simply not true - additional (polar moment of) inertia of the driven system does not decrease power used to accelerate the system. (I do these calculations weekly for sizing industrial power trains, used both for dynos and other things, and in the programming of said for amongst many things up to an including redundancy checks on data acquisition systems, which usually involves equating the power into the system balanced by the power out of the system.)
As to your example, if acceleration shows 40 hp was lost, it absolutely cannot because of an increase in inertia. Think of it this way - how does increased inertia suck more energy (heat) out of the system? Where does this heat go simply as a result of mass and geometry? Conservation of energy tells us energy lost in such a way is impossible. Adding 100 lbs
m to the black box doesn't decrease power one scintilla, and neither does adding 100 lb-in
2.
If an object of a known weight objects accelerates from 0-60 in 5 sec, it produced an average power of x. If you take the same damn object and suddenly it accelerates to 60 in 7 sec, you'd say it produces some average power less then x.
A chassis dyno tells you EFFECTIVELY HOW MUCH POWER YOU HAVE TO ACCELERATE YOUR CAR.
Quote from: BENZ BOY15 on May 25, 2010, 02:55:55 AM
I agree with you there. It's awful.
It grew on me. :lol:
Quote from: r0tor on May 25, 2010, 04:33:02 PM
If an object of a known weight objects accelerates from 0-60 in 5 sec, it produced an average power of x. If you take the same damn object and suddenly it accelerates to 60 in 7 sec, you'd say it produces some average power less then x.
If nothing changed but added drive train inertia, this is 100% false.
Quote
A chassis dyno tells you EFFECTIVELY HOW MUCH POWER YOU HAVE TO ACCELERATE YOUR CAR.
But not very well, and often times gives false reads as to what affects RWHP, like heavier wheels or lighter drive shafts, further perpetuating myth.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 25, 2010, 06:35:03 PM
If nothing changed but added drive train inertia, this is 100% false.
and if I fail to tell you anything about the inertia?
Any power that is not used to accelerate the mass of the car is wasted... be it friction or drivetrain inertia or wheel inertia its all a waste
Quote from: r0tor on May 26, 2010, 08:34:52 AM
and if I fail to tell you anything about the inertia?
Any power that is not used to accelerate the mass of the car is wasted... be it friction or drivetrain inertia or wheel inertia its all a waste
One would have to dig to find out the reason for the slower acceleration; again it's akin to adding mass rather than inertia to your black box. Adding mass would decrease acceleration but of course that does not decrease power.
There is no power "wasted" simply owing to increased inertia (or mass). It is a 100% thermodynamic impossibility - there is no "conservation of acceleration." Just because acceleration is decreased does not mean power has decreased/been lost.
(C'mon, r0tor.)
your internetry is really becoming weak... on a drag strip results are from a macros scale and not a micro one. All people care about is the end result of moving the vehicle mass as quickly as possible. If you write out an energy equation, your going to have on one side the engine and on the other side the energy consumed by moving the cars mass, friction, and rotational inertia.... when you solve that equation to find the movement of the car, you SUBTRACT the energy consumed by friction and inertia from the original engine output!!
So in physics class when you were given a problem stating "find the average power produced by a 3,000 lb car traveling from 0-60mph in 5 sec"... what did you do, raise your hand and ask "excuse me, how much to the wheels weigh"????
Quote from: r0tor on May 26, 2010, 10:22:59 AM
your internetry is really becoming weak... on a drag strip results are from a macros scale and not a micro one. All people care about is the end result of moving the vehicle mass as quickly as possible. If you write out an energy equation, your going to have on one side the engine and on the other side the energy consumed by moving the cars mass, friction, and rotational inertia.... when you solve that equation to find the movement of the car, you SUBTRACT the energy consumed by friction and inertia from the original engine output!!
So in physics class when you were given a problem stating "find the average power produced by a 3,000 lb car traveling from 0-60mph in 5 sec"... what did you do, raise your hand and ask "excuse me, how much to the wheels weigh"????
Don't know what to tell you - there is no such thing as conservation of acceleration - neither inertia nor mass is an efficiency loss.
www.insideline.com @ Edmunds hoons a Raptor in the Michigan mud:
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2-Liter First Drive
A Baja King Is Crowned in Romeo, Michigan
By Dan Edmunds, Director of Vehicle Testing | Published May 21, 2010
We're standing hard on the pedal of the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, hell-bent on unleashing all of the 411 horses its new 6.2-liter V8 engine can generate. But our truck is going more sideways and slantways than frontways. We have no particular issue with this. We like us some drifting.
Thanks to two straight days of thunderstorms, this particular crossed-up hooliganism is taking place in gooey Michigan mud that used to be the substrate of a gently rolling meadow on Ford's proving ground in Romeo, Michigan. Within a few laps, the surface is thoroughly chewed and the liquefied ruts grow ever-more perilous.
Without the 101 extra horsepower this 6.2 delivers relative to the Raptor's baseline 5.4-liter V8, we may well have gotten bogged down on some of the deeper, more treacherous portions of the trail. But instead of hunting for a tow rope, we're laughing uncontrollably, working the new motor vigorously, as the 35-inch-tall BFG All-Terrain tires spit great balls of mud at all who cower in our wake. Within minutes, our 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor resembles an oversize chocolate-brown Chia Pet, complete with grass stubble.
But this isn't Baja or the desert Southwest, the sort of terrain the Raptor's long-travel suspension was born to humiliate. Why are we in Romeo, Michigan, anyway?
Windsor? Not.
Turns out the 6.2-liter, SVT-tuned V8, a $3,000 option, is built just down the road in Ford's Romeo engine plant, and this new engine is the star of this particular Raptor show.
The 6.2-liter SVT Raptor is where the model should have been from Day One.
That's a big understatement. At 411 horsepower and 434 pound-feet of torque, the SVT 6.2-liter thoroughly eclipses the Windsor-built 5.4's lackluster output by 101 more horses and 69 more lb-ft.
Unlike the 5.4-liter Triton, the new 6.2 is a free-revving over-square engine with a large 4-inch bore and a short 3.8-inch stroke (a 1.1 bore/stroke relationship). The under-square 5.4 uses a bore of 3.6 inches and a 4.8-inch stroke, which works out to a 0.9 bore/stroke ratio.
This greatly enlarged bore diameter requires an increase of the bore spacing, so the 6.2-liter V8's bore centers are some 4.5 inches apart instead of the 3.9-inch spacing found on the Triton V8. That difference alone surely figured into the decision to build them on separate assembly lines.
Head Games
The 6.2's bore is large enough that two spark plugs per cylinder are needed for smooth and efficient combustion of the fuel charge. But twin spark plugs make three valves a tight squeeze in any combustion chamber, so the 2010 Ford F-150 Raptor's 6.2-liter mill uses a two-valve head, replacing the Triton's pair of smaller intake valves with a single large one.
Aside from cost, SVT engineers tell us the single-overhead-cam design was retained to keep this engine narrow enough to fit into the same engine bays that can accept the 5.4-liter V8. Hmmm. What other Ford vehicles use the 5.4 V8? The mind boggles.
Never mind that now. A single cam, in turn, dictates that the variable cam timing mechanism can only advance or retard the intake and exhaust lobes in lock-step; something Ford calls Dual-Equal variable cam timing.
Super-Duty Differences
But the Raptorized version of the 6.2 generates significantly more horsepower (411 vs. 385) and torque (434 vs. 405) than the Super Duty version used in the F-250 and F-350. What gives?
Ford says the SVT Raptor can ? heck, should ? be a bit louder and idle a tad rougher than the workingman's Super Duty. We agree. Your ultimate off-road weapon shouldn't sound like every other pickup out there. So SVT engineers gave theirs a less-restrictive exhaust system and, more importantly, a more radical cam that produces more valve overlap. Some call the result a lumpy idle. All we know is the Raptor sounds powerful.
What's more, the Super-Duty version is optimized to run economically on E85 or regular gasoline, while the Raptor 6.2 is strictly a gas-only machine solely for entertainment purposes. Its stated output comes when it gets drunk on premium unleaded, though with dual knock sensors, it can also run safely on regular 87-octane gas. It'll just lose 10 peak horsepower in the process.
It's worth pointing out that there are no EPA fuel-economy ratings for the 6.2-liter Raptor. It is exempt due to its 6,006-pound curb weight. We anticipate that this SVT-powered machine would return ratings of thirsty city/thirsty highway. Our mud-bog drive loop wasn't giving us an accurate read though. The only fuel-economy claim Ford is making is that the 6.2-liter Raptor will return fuel-efficiency numbers "very close" to those of the 5.4 Raptor, which is also not specifically rated by the EPA. The base model's 14 city/18 highway mpg figures reflect the 5.4-liter V8 in a non-Raptorized F-150. Ford was not required to recertify the Raptor 5.4 because of the model's low volume.
Same as It Ever Was
Of course, the no-nonsense long-travel off-road suspension is what makes the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor fly. We haven't mentioned it yet because nothing has changed. The 6.2-liter mill is merely an option in what would otherwise be the same truck we tested last October.
So you get the same 7-inch-wider track relative to a regular F-150 4x4. There's still 11.2 inches of front suspension travel and 12.1 inches in the rear. Those Fox Racing shocks with their exotic synthetic fluid and the three bypass circuits that progressively increase compression damping as you stroke the suspension toward the bump stops (code for "land a jump") are here, too. And they still impress the hell out of us.
Sync is still standard. You can opt for an integrated trailer-brake controller ($230) or a tailgate step ($375). If you want to spend more, you can get a nav system ($2,430) with a back-up camera. There's still a luxury package ($1,950) with ? among other equally off-roady things ? leather seats that remember where you like to sit. If you have money left, you can still overpay for gaudy orange seat inserts ($395) and questionable exterior graphics ($1,075).
But even the things you'd think might have changed did not. The six-speed transmission and 4.10 differential gears are a direct carryover. Well, the software that controls the shift timing is a little different, and the throttle-response profile in off-road mode is a bit more linear, but that's about as far as it goes.
That's not to say that nothing has changed. At 7,000 pounds, the 6.2 Raptor's gross vehicle weight rating (GVWR) is 50 more than the base 5.4 Raptor. But because the 6.2's curb weight is about 100 pounds greater, the payload drops from 980 to 930 pounds.
We Like It Like That
The 6.2-liter SVT Raptor is where the model should have been from Day One. SVT nailed the suspension right out of the gate, but that only served to throw the tepid 5.4-liter V8 into stark relief. After last year's full test we remarked that the Raptor needed about 100 more horsepower (we'd have taken 75, honest). Now that it's got it, the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2 feels just about perfect. Considering what it can do, we're still not blinking at the $41,995 cost of entry, either.
But Ford's not done yet. The company just confirmed the worst-kept Raptor secret: In 2011, a SuperCrew version of the Raptor will be available on a longer 144.5-inch wheelbase. We're not entirely convinced that's a good thing. But at least this 6.2-liter V8 will be its only engine choice. Ford hasn't announced the Raptor SuperCrew price, but expect the starting price to be around $45,000.
Now we're getting ahead of ourselves. Today, with the benefit of the 6.2-liter engine, the 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor SuperCab 4x4 is an even more impressive off-road device than it was before. It's safe to say there's nothing else like it with a factory warranty. Sure, it rules the desert, but now we know it's the ultimate Michigan mudslinger.
From www.autoblog.com:
Report: EcoBoost-powered Ford SVT Raptor R coming?
by Steven J. Ewing (RSS feed) on Jun 1st, 2010 at 3:30 PM
Ford is really proud of its 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, and while the automaker currently only offers this mill in the Taurus SHO, Flex, Lincoln MKS and MKT, PickupTrucks.com reports that the Baja-blasting SVT Raptor will get a version of this powerplant, as well.
Ford will be offering the EcoBoost V6 as a top-range engine on the F-150 for the 2011 model year, producing something in the range of 400 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque, but in the Raptor R, expect output numbers to be significantly higher. Currently, the Raptor R 6.2 produces roughly 500 peak horsepower out of its modified version of the automaker's latest V8, and we doubt that Ford will want to skimp on power when it comes to a no-holds-barred race truck like the Raptor R.
PickupTrucks.com reports that we could see the Raptor R EcoBoost compete in this year's Best In The Desert off-road racing series, as well as the Baja 1000 later this year. All we know is, this sounds like one seriously brutal pickup for desert storming.
Quote from: Nethead on June 03, 2010, 10:09:26 AM
From www.autoblog.com:
Report: EcoBoost-powered Ford SVT Raptor R coming?
by Steven J. Ewing (RSS feed) on Jun 1st, 2010 at 3:30 PM
Ford is really proud of its 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6, and while the automaker currently only offers this mill in the Taurus SHO, Flex, Lincoln MKS and MKT, PickupTrucks.com reports that the Baja-blasting SVT Raptor will get a version of this powerplant, as well.
Ford will be offering the EcoBoost V6 as a top-range engine on the F-150 for the 2011 model year, producing something in the range of 400 horsepower and 400 pound-feet of torque, but in the Raptor R, expect output numbers to be significantly higher. Currently, the Raptor R 6.2 produces roughly 500 peak horsepower out of its modified version of the automaker's latest V8, and we doubt that Ford will want to skimp on power when it comes to a no-holds-barred race truck like the Raptor R.
PickupTrucks.com reports that we could see the Raptor R EcoBoost compete in this year's Best In The Desert off-road racing series, as well as the Baja 1000 later this year. All we know is, this sounds like one seriously brutal pickup for desert storming.
That's quite interesting, but I think I would totally miss the V8 rumble in a truck like that.
Quote from: SVT666 on June 03, 2010, 11:09:16 AM
That's quite interesting, but I think I would totally miss the V8 rumble in a truck like that.
SVT666: Since the EcoBoost Raptor
R is a racing truck, it'll rumble.
Is there a market for a
regular Raptor with an EcoBoosted V6? There might actually be. Until now there hasn't been a V6 worthy of a Raptor.
I guess some will say "Well, why not a 5.0L Raptor?" That would make little sense with the 6.2L Raptor available--but now that Ford is planning a crew cab Raptor, a whole family of Raptor vehicles appear to be in the offing so maybe it would make sense. Will the Raptor-chassised Expedition be called the Raptordition, Raptition, Expedaptor, Expeditor, or just Omigod? The Raptor-chassised Escape can just be simply the Rape...
The 2011 crewcab Raptor has been photographed:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2010/06/supercrew-2011-ford-f150-svt-raptor-spied.html
More & better pics:
http://www.leftlanenews.com/ford-f-150-svt-raptor-supercrew.html
Quote from: Catman on April 19, 2009, 04:21:25 PM
Hopefully you can get it without the graphics.
my thoughts exactly. love the grille, other details. hate the cheesy stick-ons!
From www.autoblog.com comes a description of HemiDude's next truck:
Hennessey slaps a pair of turbos on Ford's Raptor 6.2 [w/Video]
by Jonny Lieberman (RSS feed) on Jun 23rd, 2010 at 11:00 AM
Well of course they did. If John Hennessey is known for anything, it's strictly adhering to the "Needs more power!" motif. This guy could watch a shuttle launch and return to his lab plotting a third booster. So yes, Hennessey has slapped two turbochargers onto Ford's batty-yet-burly F150-mutant Raptor 6.2 and produced the VelociRaptor 600 and 800, two products that will nicely compliment the existing Hennessey VelociRaptor 500, a supercharged version of the Raptor 5.4.
Through the magic of forced induction, power grows from the 6.2-liter V8 Raptor's stock 411 horsepower and 434 pound-feet of torque to a slightly-goofy 602 hp and 622 lb-ft of twist in the V-Rap 600. Not enough for you? Hennessey either, which is why he's also selling the VelociRaptor 800. Get all the liquids out of your mouth now, as the engine stonks it up to the Texas-sized tune of 810 hp and 745 lb-ft of torque. Can we borrow an exclamation point?
We know what you're thinking -- the Bentley Mulsane's twin-turbo V8 makes 752 pound-feet of torque, besting the Hennessey 800 by seven pounds of twisting force. However, the Hennessey VelociRaptor 800 makes 305 more ponies than the British thoroughbred, weighs less (what doesn't?) and can keep up with the hounds no matter the fox hunt. That said, the Muslanne has a nicer interior. Think we're being silly? We are, because engines like this bend our minds a bit. Remember, 810 hp is nearly 100 hp more than a Ferrari 599XX.
But what if you already have a Raptor 6.2, want more power but don't want two turbochargers? Again, no problem, as Hennessey is also announcing the VelociRaptor 475, that through better breathing and some reprogramming, ups the big V8's output to 475 hp and 485 lb-ft of torque. Dang. Watch the video after the jump.
[Source: Hennessey]
Why Raptors? Why now?
One of the best RaptorReads to date, from www.automobile.com:
http://www.automobilemag.com/reviews/driven/1008_2010_ford_f_150_svt_raptor_on_patrol/index.html
(http://www.carspin.net/forums/Smileys/carspin/deadhorse.gif)
The staff at Edmunds InsideLine picked their favorite vehicles of 2010. This is the summary of their favorite truck:
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
All you'll need to truly appreciate the F-150 SVT Raptor is a desire to drive fast over rough terrain. This is because the Raptor is a truck ? that's right, a truck ? that's engineered to be driven. This purposefulness became clear to us on the last day of our 10-day evaluation.
The decisive moment came mere fractions of a second after the truck left the ground ? an important distinction in the driving of off-road machines. You see, any desert-dwelling flat-biller can find himself and his pickup in the air given enough hubris, horsepower and Hamm's ? items that seem common enough in off-road circles. But it's the inevitable return to earth that distinguishes the Raptor.
It wasn't until the horizon reappeared from beneath the F-150's hood and all 5,957 pounds of Molten-Orange truck glided back to the ground with astonishing grace that we realized what Ford has created with the Raptor. This is quite possibly the most unique and entertaining vehicle sold in North America right now. ? Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
6,000 lbs?!?! :mask: :pullover:
Quote from: GoCougs on May 26, 2010, 10:53:37 AM
Don't know what to tell you - there is no such thing as conservation of acceleration - neither inertia nor mass is an efficiency loss.
Then why do cars (in neutral) with super light clutches rev faster than an identical car with a heavy clutch?
Quote from: Nethead on July 22, 2010, 08:35:18 AM
The staff at Edmunds InsideLine picked their favorite vehicles of 2010. This is the summary of their favorite truck:
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
All you'll need to truly appreciate the F-150 SVT Raptor is a desire to drive fast over rough terrain. This is because the Raptor is a truck ? that's right, a truck ? that's engineered to be driven. This purposefulness became clear to us on the last day of our 10-day evaluation.
The decisive moment came mere fractions of a second after the truck left the ground ? an important distinction in the driving of off-road machines. You see, any desert-dwelling flat-biller can find himself and his pickup in the air given enough hubris, horsepower and Hamm's ? items that seem common enough in off-road circles. But it's the inevitable return to earth that distinguishes the Raptor.
It wasn't until the horizon reappeared from beneath the F-150's hood and all 5,957 pounds of Molten-Orange truck glided back to the ground with astonishing grace that we realized what Ford has created with the Raptor. This is quite possibly the most unique and entertaining vehicle sold in North America right now. ? Josh Jacquot, Senior Road Test Editor
(http://www.carspin.net/forums/Smileys/carspin/deadhorse.gif)
Dude, if you don't want to hear about the Raptor, then kindly leave this thread. Nethead's updates are directly on point. Where else is he supposed to post articles about the vehicle?
+1. I really like the raptor and like to read articles on it. Nethead basically does all the leg work by finding them. I think it's pretty convenient.
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on July 23, 2010, 06:20:56 AM
Then why do cars (in neutral) with super light clutches rev faster than an identical car with a heavy clutch?
Because less inertia = better acceleration; the power put to the street is the same with a light or heavy clutch (or wheels, or drive shaft, etc.).
"Dude, if you don't want to hear about the Raptor, then kindly leave this thread. Nethead's updates are directly on point. Where else is he supposed to post articles about the vehicle?"
Thank you, Tave!
"+1. I really like the raptor and like to read articles on it. Nethead basically does all the leg work by finding them. I think it's pretty convenient."
Thank you, MrH!
Your collective support is appreciated!
What you both have posted makes such plain common sense it's perplexing how Submahater just doesn't get it. :huh: Maybe it's ADHD or a tumor in the logic & reasoning part of the brain...we can only hope it's treatable and hasn't turned malignant...
Submahater may not like the way it is a whole lot, but it is still the way it is: The Raptor is the fastest production off-road truck on Earth--Oh! Excuse me, the Nethead here is beating a dead horse again (along with Tave, MrH, and every single automotive journalist on the planet).
Being a dead horse is a dirty job--Mike Rowe should do a "Dirty Jobs" episode about it. To be continued...
Dontcha love a good techy article with lotsa hardware pics, cutaway drawings, underbody photos, diagrams of locking differential engagement mechanicals, disassembled transfer cases on workbenches, yada yada yada? :rockon: If you do, stop now. :confused:
Wanna go to Jail, not pass Go, not collect $200, and lose your next three turns?
'Piece o' cake! :thumbsup: Here's how:
Ford SVT Raptor, Designed for Men
By Chris Raymond
Look at this truck and tell me what you see? Wrong. It?s the new Ford F-150 SVT Raptor, a tough as nails he-man truck that wants to rip your arms off. Now look back again, what do you see? Wrong. It?s a truck so manly it sweats, a truck you need to shave three times a day, a truck that will grow chest hair. This truck is dangerous, in the same way you are.
Ford designed this truck for men, not ladies, and not little boys. This brute is not the truck you take to the local Starbucks for a double non-fat soy chai macchiato latte or to the boutique to get Mr. Jingles a new outfit. No, this is the truck you use to hunt wildebeest on your private game reserve, or to chase down local gangs to deal out some street justice. The Ford SVT Raptor was designed on a mountaintop by secret disappearing ninjas using the greatest technologies known to man. They built it with a massive 6.2-liter V-8 that makes 411 horsepower and a boatload of torque. That?s enough torque to pull the sewer pipes right through your front lawn, and enough power to easily outrun the cops.
Don?t let this truck scare you, because it will cruise down the highway smoother than your M1 Abrams Main battle tank, and when you get where you?re going, just throw on the Advancetrac system and crawl up over that Prius parked in your spot. They won?t say anything, they won?t dare. The SVT Raptor is comfortable, too, with enough room for those hotties you picked up on the way to your fight club.
Fully loaded, the Ford SVT Raptor will cost around $42,000, but you won?t care because this truck will outlast you and the seventeen children your testosterone flooded body will undoubtedly spawn. This truck will outlast democracy and become an impressive monument to the level of machismo you?ve attained. Throw it into mud-bogged rainforests in Bolivia, use it to hunt down Bin Laden in Afghanistan, toss a trailer hitch on it, and drag that mother-***ing M777 155 mm Howitzer right up to the nearest Al-Qaeda cave, you can do anything in this truck.
This Raptor is designed only for ripped, hulking, brutish, macho, Chuck Norris lookalikes who enjoys Mixed Martial Arts fighting, threesomes, rugby, choppers, blondes and eating fried scorpions. And don?t worry if one of those hotties has a twin, next year Ford is bringing out a crew cab version. :winkguy:
We are committed to offering honest, unbiased reviews. Read our Editorial Policy. :praise:
I just went to Yellowstone with my family and I saw 3 different raptors on the roads up there. They are a nice looking truck in person but I prefer them without the graphics.
On a side note, it appears that the official vehicle of Yellowstone is the Ford Flex. I hardly ever see them where I live but they were all over the place up there.
Quote from: RomanChariot on August 20, 2010, 12:35:39 PM
I just went to Yellowstone with my family and I saw 3 different raptors on the roads up there. They are a nice looking truck in person but I prefer them without the graphics.
On a side note, it appears that the official vehicle of Yellowstone is the Ford Flex. I hardly ever see them where I live but they were all over the place up there.
RCdude: Flexes are fairly common here, but with over 400,000 sold already that is a given. The Flex Sport is
THE stand-out among CUVs, which isn't a particularly challenging achievement.
The Braying Ass was claiming upstream that no one's gonna drive Raptors off-road :orly:. Clearly, you must have been mistaken. :confused:
Luckily, the Raptor graphics are optional ($1,075.00)--goin' plain ol' plain ol' can save you enough bucks to get a Hi-Lift and a compressor for your ARBs. :ohyeah:
Let's see, have we annoyed Submariner yet this month? Probably...but why take any chances that we overlooked him?
Motor Trend magazine's October 2011 issue has a totally gorgeous (graphicsless, no less!) bright neon blue Raptor that they got to take on an unescorted (Uh-oh...I smell paternity suit :confused:) test drive into the desert. The text below is OK, for sure, but the video on their website is spectacular:
Desert Drive: 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2L V-8
More Power Means a Better Match
August 24, 2010 / By Mark Williams / Photography by Mike Shaffer
You may recall we had the world exclusive opportunity to drive the brand-new 6.2L V-8 Raptor under the watchful eyes of a large group of Ford engineers several months ago at their top-secret Anza Borrego testing facility. (They also showed us their Crew Cab Raptor.) As you read in the story and saw from the video and photos, it was exceptionally fun. (We even got a helicopter ride.) But now we're interested in seeing what this Raptor can do without hand-wringing PR wranglers and design engineers in the passenger seats.
As you might have guessed, we found out the 411 horsepower SVT Raptor (up almost 100 hp from the 5.4L option) loves to run wild in wide-open spaces In fact, a vast desert landscape is exactly the type of terrain the SVT engineers had in mind when they were building (some might say overbuilding) the Raptor. We took our bright neon blue 2010 6.2L Raptor to the high desert about 60 miles above the Los Angeles basin, to the wide-open spaces of the Johnson Valley Off Highway Vehicle area. The terrain is made of hundreds of dirt roads, rutted by ATVs, buggies, motorcycles, and other rugged four-wheelers. Suspensions get the most abuse out here, as shock absorbers overheat and often break completely off the chassis mounts as harsh, rapid-fire inputs stress parts well beyond their limits. Add desert temperatures above 110 degrees F (naturally we had to do this in July).
Much of our initial testing was through open desert, zigzagging in and out of large clumps of brush acting as lane dividers for the various two-tracks leading to our dry-lake destination. From the moment you fire up the bigger-engined Raptor, the most obvious difference beyond richer exhaust note is the extra 90 horsepower, which lightens up the truck's feel and response. Not that the 3-valve 5.4L V-8 was a slug, but it required you to rev the heck out of it to make the 6000-pound Raptor come alive. Additionally, the 6.2L V-8 (with only 2 valves per cylinder) offers 40 more pound-feet of torque, which seems to make the 6-speed transmission a touch faster to respond. In fact, we found ourselves using the throttle to do some of our steering around corners and in between sagebrush as we ran through our off-road course. But the increased power of the new 6.2L is only half the story of how much fun it is to drive Raptor through the desert.
You can't drive a Raptor and not call out the giant Fox Racing shocks that swallow ruts, bumps and whoop-de-doos without an ounce of the rattle or slam your body, relying on visual input, is expecting. The massive front upper and lower control arm, combined with the super-cooling abilities of the reservoir shocks, allowed us to blast through sections of backcountry two-track road at 60, 70 and 80 mph like a Mexico-racing Trophy Truck on the last leg of the Baja 1000. Can there be any great joy than driving a purpose-built vehicle on the exact terrain or track on which it was design to run best? It's practically impossible not to smile and while smashing your foot to the floor. (We know; we tried.) We especially liked the electronically controlled Off Road Mode settings that allowed us to turn down and even shut off all the traction and throttle controls. This type of nanny we can live with. On our little outing, that directly translated into more tire-drifting fun in the middle of the 2-square-mile-wide dry lakebed. (Note to all enthusiasts: If you've never driven on an empty, wide-open, dry lake bed, put it on your bucket list).
It's also worth noting that the Raptor isn't just a truck for high-speed or even airborne thrills. It does have a low-range gear in its transfer case. The massive 35-inch tires provide a ton of ground clearance; the low-range gearing allows the Raptor to crawl with the best 4x4s around; and the long wheelbase and wide track keep it from getting bogged down in the ruts and holes all the Jeeps have dug up on just about any extreme trail. After playing with the Raptor's 4x4 system and Hill Descent Control on jagged hillclimbs and steep dropoffs, we can say this truck is as expertly equipped for slow-go trail navigation as it is for high-speed, cross-desert exploration.
Still, as fun as the big-motored beast is for fast and slow motion, it is an odd pickup. Maybe nowhere else in the world of trucks is there such a one-dimensional vehicle -- a fullsize vehicle with less payload capacity than a compact. From what we understand, most are equipped with the integrated trailer brake controller (an $230 option with the standard Trailer Tow Package), yet can only tow 5000 pounds -- about the same as a V-6 compact pickup or a seven-passenger crossover. Maybe this engineering and packaging template works with high-dollar sports cars, but something seems out of whack here. Maybe to combat that exact issue, Ford included special pricing for the base and fully loaded Raptors, and by "special" we don't mean crazy extra performance costs like an AMG, RS, or M-Series. There is a strong value argument here. Base pricing starts just over $38,000, and you can order the 411 hp motor ($3000 -- and worth every penny); the top-level sound and nav system for $2430; a power moonroof for $950; extreme graphics, if you like that sort of thing, for $1075; and the luxury package for $1950. Even if you ordered EVERYTHING, it still gets you underneath $47,000, about the average transaction price for a four-door fullsize pickup truck. But you get one of the most unique and capable (in its own way) pickups ever built.
Clearly, Ford is doing all of us high-speed-loving truck lovers a favor here by spreading the engineering costs over a much larger and wider F-150 product lineup. And for that we thank them, no matter how long it can last. But we especially thank them for making the Raptor the first Ford truck to get the new 6.2L V-8. More power makes this rig a better truck.
Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/trucks/1008_2011_ford_f150_svt_raptor_6_2_l_v_8/options_and_pricing.html#ixzz0xYJLq1aZ
We can't even get the 5.4L Raptor in Canada. Only the 6.2L.
Quote from: SVT666 on August 24, 2010, 07:40:50 PM
We can't even get the 5.4L Raptor in Canada. Only the 6.2L.
SVT666: HemiDude, I believe the 6.2L is now the standard engine in the US as well. The 5.4L may only have been available in models sold as 2010 model year vehicles, with the 6.2L the (so far) only engine in Raptors sold as 2011 model year vehicles. The Nethead here hasn't researched this, however, so if you find contradicting evidence somewhere, go with it.
Quote from: Nethead on August 25, 2010, 10:15:59 AM
SVT666: HemiDude, I believe the 6.2L is now the standard engine in the US as well. The 5.4L may only have been available in models sold as 2010 model year vehicles, with the 6.2L the (so far) only engine in Raptors sold as 2011 model year vehicles. The Nethead here hasn't researched this, however, so if you find contradicting evidence somewhere, go with it.
Yeah it's called "the article you posted" where it states it's a $3000 option. I went to Ford's website as well and the 5.4L is the standard engine. :facepalm:
I know. I know. I know already: it's too early in the month to be annoying Submahater :orly: but time is tight. What can I do :huh:? Places to go, things to do, people to annoy :popcorn:
2011 FORD F-150 SVT RAPTOR ADDS SUPERCREW OPTION, MORE TECHNOLOGY, TOWING, STANDARD 6.2-LITER ENGINE
? Ford F-150 SVT Raptor again is raising the bar for high-speed off-road performance trucks by adding a SuperCrew option and more standard power and towing capability for 2011
? The previously optional 6.2-liter V8 engine, which produces 411 horsepower and 434 lb.-ft. of torque, now comes standard for 2011, making Raptor the most powerful half-ton pickup on the market
? Upgraded technology content, including a standard 4.2-inch LCD productivity screen and SelectShift Automatic? transmission, keeps customers more in tune with their trucks, while a new graphic and color choice gives them more options.
DEARBORN, Mich., Sept. 3, 2010 ? A new standard 6.2-liter V8 engine pumping out 411 horsepower, new technologies and a newly available SuperCrew option that gives Raptor customers more choices in cab size all ensure the 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor will remain the off-road performance truck champion in the new model year.
"When we launched the F-150 SVT Raptor, consumers were blown away with the capability of the vehicle," said Jost Capito, director of global performance vehicles and motorsports business development. "By adding the SuperCrew, we have expanded the versatility of Raptor, and now even more enthusiasts will be able to experience the no-compromise off-road performance that only Raptor delivers."
The F-150 SVT Raptor is the first-ever high-speed off-road performance truck offered by any manufacturer and highlights 33 years of Ford truck sales leadership by emphasizing F-150's Built Ford Tough durability, innovation and engineering. Developed with the DNA of an off-road pre-runner, comprehensive modifications focused on chassis and suspension enhancements.
The F-150 SVT Raptor is 7 inches wider than a base F-150 to make room for the additional suspension components that give Raptor its unparalleled off-road abilities. The wider stance also gives the truck an aggressive appearance. Internal triple-bypass shocks by FOX Racing Shox ? the first on a production truck ? provide position-sensitive damping and extra suspension travel for extreme off-roading and a smooth ride on the road.
Raptor also has unique cast-aluminum front control arms and SVT-tuned 35-inch BFGoodrich? All-Terrain TA/KO 315/70-17 tires. These components give Raptor 11.2 inches of front suspension travel and 12.1 inches of rear suspension travel on either SuperCab or the new SuperCrew.
The new available 145-inch-wheelbase SuperCrew offering with a 5.5-foot box adds to the extensive list of F-150 SVT Raptor features. While contributing additional space and flexibility for the customer, the SuperCrew delivers performance as well.
Applying lessons learned from the SuperCab F-150 SVT Raptor, engineers were able to tune the truck to handle off-road events with ease. The 12-inch-longer wheelbase on SuperCrew also delivers the benefit of a more comfortable ride, especially in rough off-road situations.
"We spent a lot of time getting the ride and suspension characteristics of the SuperCrew similar to that of the SuperCab, and we were successful in getting the same character and flavor out of the SuperCrew," said Jamal Hameedi, SVT chief nameplate engineer. "While the SuperCab and SuperCrew both have different strengths, each is worthy of the Raptor nameplate."
A larger 36-gallon fuel tank and increased towing capability ? rated at 8,000 pounds ? keep F-150 SVT Raptor SuperCrew a mainstay in the desert environment, with capabilities as a chase or tow truck.
Revved up and ready
The previously optional 6.2-liter V8 engine, which produces 411 horsepower and 434 lb.-ft. of torque, will now be the standard engine for the 2011 F-150 SVT Raptor, the most powerful half-ton pickup on the market.
The Ford powertrain team performed extensive testing to ensure the engine would live up to the Built Ford Tough promise. Hundreds of additional tests beyond the normal verification of truck engines, as well as vehicle testing on a 62-mile durability loop in the desert that simulates the Baja 1000, validated the performance of the engine for reliability and longevity in the harshest conditions.
New color and graphic options :zzz:
Raptor's exterior also receives some new touches for 2011, in the form of an additional paint color ? Ingot Silver Metallic ? that will be available with the standard black interior, or the optional Molten Orange Interior Accent Package.
A new optional hood graphic adds a personalized and functional touch to F-150 SVT Raptor. Inspired by older off-road racing Ford Broncos, matte black accent graphics ? including the F-150 SVT Raptor logo ? run along the hood, also helping to reduce glare. The Raptor logo in the graphic is done in body-color bleed-through, similar to "SVT" on the side vent. "F-150" and "SVT" are written in dark gray. The graphic is available with or without the box side graphics.
More capability, more technology
Key to helping customers take advantage of all the capability offered by the F-150 SVT Raptor is a standard 4.2-inch LCD (liquid crystal display) productivity screen that is integrated in the center of the new instrument gauges, which have a black face, red pointers and ice blue daytime lighting. Also used on the all-new 2011 Super Duty, the technology was specifically tailored for off-road use with Raptor.
The screen includes a unique welcome animation :rolleyes: and offers menu options giving the customer important information related to off-road and towing performance. A truck application screen provides vehicle status information for important off-road parameters such as off-road mode, Hill Descent Control?, electronic locking differential settings and AdvanceTrac? with RSC? (Roll Stability Control?).
An off-road screen informs the customer about steering wheel angle and vehicle angle on a grade during off-road maneuvers. The menu is navigated through a five-way button on the steering wheel and is positioned between the tachometer and speedometer.
"The productivity screen is a great solution for our off-road customers," said Hameedi. "With one glance, they can tell exactly what settings are enabled on their truck and what the driveline
is doing."
For the customer who wants more control of transmission gear selection, SelectShift Automatic transmission functionality also is introduced on Raptor. A toggle switch located on the console shift lever engages the mode, where the transmission doesn't second-guess the driver, giving him or her total control over gear selection and performance feel. Upshifts, for instance, are not commanded at redline, and downshifts are allowed at the lowest gear possible as defined by the engine speed.
A Raptor Plus Package debuts for 2011, offering the rear view camera and trailer brake controller. The Raptor Luxury Package also receives additional features, with folding power exterior mirrors and Remote Start System with integrated key fob added to the list.
New standard technology features for 2011 include:
? Perimeter alarm
? Integrated spotter mirror
? Express up/down driver and passenger front windows
? 110 V power inverter in the center console
? Head restraint for second-row middle seat
? Telescoping steering wheel
2010 Raptor equals hot seller
Sales of the truck are off to an impressive start, selling four times quicker than the average F-150, with the 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor equipped with the 6.2-liter engine selling within 11 days of arriving at dealerships. In fact, 2010 F-150 SVT Raptor sales are set to exceed the highest model year sales of the F-150 SVT Lightning.
Dealers will start taking orders for the 2011 F-150 SVT Raptor today, and the trucks will be available in dealerships late this year...
Ahhh, WTF? Let's just piss off :heated: Submahater royally and follow up the above posting with this from www.jalopnik.com :evildude:
2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor SuperCrew: Four Doors Of Awesome
Because apparently buyers asked for it, here's the 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor SuperCrew. Four swingin' doors and 12 more inches of wheelbase for full-size adult haulage, a standard 411-hp 6.2-liter V8 and all the dune-pounding goodies of the original.
When the Ford F-150 SVT Raptor first launched, it blew everyone away with its awesome off-road performance. But there were two things buyers asked for; more power and a SuperCrew body option.
Ford took care of the first ask by dropping the all-new 411-hp, 434 lb-ft 6.2-liter V8 into the Raptor, an upgrade from the long-in-the-tooth 5.4-liter. Now, to take care of the second ask, they've added the SuperCrew option. However it's not just the same truck dropped into a bigger package.
First and foremost, the 6.2 will be standard for the SuperCrew. There's no 5.4 available since not only will it be going out of production shortly (and therefore also not be available for the regular Raptor) but Ford needs the bigger engine to motivate this larger Raptor.
The fuel tank is also bigger ? a 36-gallon fuel capacity. That'll mean more time out on the trails. It's also beefier with a bigger 8,000 pounds towing capacity and another 100 lbs of payload. The cushy-over-bumps predictable-on-the-asphalt ride and handling have been maintained by tuning the Fox Racing shocks and springs front and rear.
But the most surprising part is the weight. The SuperCrew only weighs 194 lbs heavier than the SuperCab Raptor. Judging by the ridiculously fast sales rate so far, we suspect the pent-up demand for the crew cab will make this desert bruiser a hot commodity. :cheers:
From www.leftlanenews.com:
The Nethead Here Beats Dead Horse, SPCA Calls For Investigation :rage:! Flags at Half-Mast :cry:. Palin to Deliver Eulogy, Request Burial at Arlington :nutty:. Biden Says "That's One Dead Fucking Horse."
By Mark Kleis
The last time we saw the 2011, Ford F150 Raptor Supercrew, every inch of it was covered in heavy camouflage. Today, every inch of that camo has been removed and all the detailed specifications and upgrades have been revealed.
2011 sees some noteworthy changes to Ford?s off-road specialist, the SVT Raptor, as it gains a new cab configuration (SuperCrew) as well as a new standard engine, the 6.2-liter 411 horsepower, 434 lb-ft of torque V8 found in the 2011 Superduty. This new cab configuration drew fire from many purists who said the truck would lose its purpose-built performance, but Ford would like to present a case that for some, it is actually more capable than the Supercab model, and not just when it comes to hauling (human) butt.
There are two other noteworthy additions, namely a now standard 4.2-inch LCD productivity screen on all Raptor trucks, and a new SelectShift Automatic six-speed transmission.
Raptor grows, sprouts two more doors
It was inevitable, Ford was destined to bring a SuperCrew variant of its SVT Raptor at some point, and that time is now. This new cab configuration not only increases interior volume and allows for more comfort for rear passengers, but for those looking to take their Raptor trucks to the desert and brings some tows along with, the SuperCrew touts improvements across the board in terms of payload and towing capacity over the Supercab configuration.
Payload receives a minor bump from 930 lbs to 1,030 lbs, but maximum trailer tow weight jumps from 6,000 lbs to 8,000 lbs, an increase that will likely be welcomed by those trying to pack supplies and ?toys? for the whole family and taking it all to the desert in and behind a single truck. Thanks to the added vehicle length, extra room for a larger gas tank sees capacity jump from 26 gallons to 36 gallons, an increase that will be welcomed when towing and suffering a sizable hit to fuel economy.
6.2 > 5.4
Now that Ford?s 6.2-liter V8 is ready for the big time, Ford decided to drop the dated 5.4-liter engine (as expected) altogether, making the 6.2-liter V8 standard for both the Supercab and SuperCrew models. Previously some believed Ford would continue to offer the 5.4 as the standard engine on the Supercab variant, but with Ford?s 2011 powertrain changes across the entire F-150 lineup, the move to drop the 5.4 makes perfect sense.
The other powertrain change worth discussing
Of course the big news for Raptor in 2011 is the nixing of the dated and anemic 5.4-liter V8 and placing the previously optional 6.2-liter engine as the only engine across both models and all trim levels, but there is another change that comes after enthusiasts and journalists alike complained about the lack of gear control: SelectShift.
The SelectShift Automatic transmission is a huge addition to the Raptor in the eyes of many, as most off-roaders realize the importance of gear selection in varying terrains and grades. To address those concerns, Ford added a toggle switch ? located on the console shift lever ? which can engage a new mode where the transmission doesn?t second-guess the driver, giving him or her total control over gear selection.
For example, upshifts are not commanded at redline, and downshifts are allowed at the lowest gear possible as defined by the engine speed ? making the SelectShift Automatic transmission as close to a manual transmission as an automatic could reasonably allow for in an off-road truck.
Interior changes for 2011
Aside from the obvious addition of the larger interior-minded SuperCrew model, Ford also made some minor changes to the Supercab model as well.
The most significant upgrade is the addition of a standard 4.2-inch LCD productivity screen that is integrated in the center of the new instrument gauges, which have a black face, red pointers and ice blue daytime lighting. This screen comes from the recently launched 2011 Superduty trucks, but in the Raptor the screen provides a unique welcome animation and, more importantly, vehicle status information for important off-road parameters such as off-road mode, Hill Descent Control, electronic locking differential settings and AdvanceTrac with RSC (Roll Stability Control).
The new screen also provides information about steering wheel angle and vehicle angle on a grade during off-road maneuvers. The menu is navigated through a five-way button on the steering wheel and is positioned between the tachometer and speedometer ? requiring a minimal amount of distraction from the tasks at hand.
Other minor interior changes include a telescoping steering wheel, a head restraint for the second-row middle seat, 110 volt power inverter located in the center console and a few minor control changes.
New options, packages for 2011
In the event that the standard fare Supercab or SuperCrew Raptor just isn?t enough for the most discerning buyers, Ford now offers two new packages, Raptor Plus Package and Raptor Luxury Package.
Raptor Plus Package is for those with towing on their minds, adding both the rear-view camera and a trailer brake controller.
The Luxury Package is for those with cash to burn and/or a burning desire to have the latest ?make your life a little bit easier? options, including power folding mirrors and a remote start system.
New colors and graphics
In case you hadn?t memorized the color palette available for the 2010 Raptor, then you might not have noticed the new color being displayed in the image gallery: Ingot Silver Metallic.
You did likely notice, however, that Ford has continued its graphic offerings to the hood of the Raptor. Ford says inspiration for the designs can be traced to the classic Broncos. The design features matte black accent graphics ? including the F-150 SVT Raptor logo ? run along the hood, which Ford points out also happens to reduce glare. The Raptor logo inset in the graphic is done in body-color bleed-through, similar to ?SVT? on the side vent, while ?F-150″ and ?SVT? are done in dark gray.
The graphic is available with or without the box side graphics.
Ford SVT F-150 trivia
Ford confirmed to Leftlane that the Raptor has exceeded sales expectations thus far, meeting production capacity in 2010 with over 6,000 Raptors sold since introduction last summer. Ford says the Raptor is on pace to surpass the best single year of sales ever by an SVT truck, set by the Lighting in 2001 when 6,381 trucks were sold.
Considering that the majority of Ford?s F-150′s in non-Raptor trim levels are sold in SuperCrew configuration, Ford may see a substantial bump in demand for its range-topping truck in 2011 as it adds its second cab configuration.
The 2011 Raptor trucks are set to arrive in dealers nationwide in late 2010, with orders officially opening today.
Submahater is gonna shit for sure:
Esquire Names the Raptor Truck of the Year
"...? Truck of the Year ? 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor: Long-travel Fox Racing suspension, 35-inch tires, and an optional 411-hp 6.2-liter V-8 allow you to pull an Incredible Hulk and leap over most of the continent without breaking a sweat. Overkill? Exactly.""
Y'know guys, the Nethead here is feeling really guilty over the endless bashing :hammerhead: I have slathered on Submahater's "beating a dead horse" smilies. It's so rude of me, really. :frown:
Effective immediately I am gonna change my evil :evildude: ways and cease stomping on--hold on--what's this? Oh, never mind...
The 10 Most Fun Vehicles
Because You Aren't Going To Live Forever
By Daniel Pund, Senior Editor, Detroit | Published Sep 6, 2010
For this, Inside Line's first ever 10 Most Fun Vehicles, we've constructed the ultimate car-evaluation tool. Thanks to the wealth of technical data available in our databases and the brilliance of our on-staff software engineers and algorithm writers, our computers can now automatically generate lists of the most fun vehicles currently on the U.S. market, using criteria including, but not limited to: availability of brown paint, cupholder count, overall width (in millimeters, including side mirrors), the attractiveness of its VIN sequencing and the depth of carpet pile of optional floor mats.
All right, we've left the engineers, spreadsheets, pricing reports and everything else back at Comparison-Test Headquarters. All we really needed to complete this assignment were our asses, a bucket-load of endorphins and access to press-car fleets. Our criteria included whether the vehicle in question could convince us to take on a car payment we really couldn't afford and whether a drive in said vehicle leaves us in a stupor after the endorphin flood recedes.
We've limited the winners to vehicles currently available in the United States and...well; actually that was the only rule. Here they are in the order that they leapt to mind.
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Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
With the brawny and bold Raptor, Ford's SVT unit took the whole idea of a hot-rodded pickup and turned it on its ear...and then kicked sand on it...and then jumped over it, flying with its wheels dangling at full droop like a hornet's rear legs. There is simply nothing like the high-speed, desert-pummeling, ass-kicking, bitchin' damper-having, wife-embarrassing awesomeness of the Raptor. The addition of the 6.2-liter V8 to complement (and eventually replace) the gutless 5.4-liter V8 was the final awesome piece of the great pie of awesomeness. It just makes you want to whoop and holler.
Ford Shelby GT500
Yes, we're aware that the last entry on this list was the work of the SVT boys. In fact, with its two (wildly divergent) entries, the relatively small SVT group is responsible for 20 percent of our 10 Most Fun list. It didn't have to go this way. When the modern GT500 arrived on the scene it was, well, a push pig. It was pretty much the old one-dimensional muscle-car deal. That changed for 2010 with a substantial rework of the vehicle. That was enough to vault the GT500 onto our Editors' Most Wanted list. And for '11, the GT500 got a lighter, slightly more powerful aluminum-block motor and the SVT Performance package, which served to make the GT500 not just quicker but also better handling. This is truly a dual-mode vehicle now. It's capable of doing the knuckle-dragging muscle car thing: looking menacing, sounding wicked and vaporizing its newly designed Goodyear rear tires at will. But it's also a helluva track car. The upcoming Camaro Z28 has its work cut out for it.
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Penitence is for pussies.
Quote from: Nethead on September 14, 2010, 08:56:14 AM
Submahater is gonna shit for sure:
Esquire Names the Raptor Truck of the Year
"...? Truck of the Year ? 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor: Long-travel Fox Racing suspension, 35-inch tires, and an optional 411-hp 6.2-liter V-8 allow you to pull an Incredible Hulk and leap over most of the continent without breaking a sweat. Overkill? Exactly.""
Yeah...that's swell!
You really need a box of tissues, some KY and 20 minutes alone with a Raptor - maybe the Ford hysteria will ease up - Wimmer couldn't hold a candle to your fanboyism...
The Raptor is fucking awesome and I've seen several of them now. Damn I want one.
Submahater:
Yeah...that's swell! It is, isn't it!
You really need a box of tissues, some KY and 20 minutes alone with a Raptor - maybe the Ford hysteria will ease up - Wimmer couldn't hold a candle to your fanboyism...Only wusses need the tissues. :thumbsup: Why do you think vehicles have upholstery? :confused:
But there's no question that you're right--Wimmer can't hold a candle to the Nethead here's fanboyism of the Raptor. Like everything else, if ya do fanboyism, do it right! :praise:
From www.autoblog.com comes the EcoBoost 3.5L Raptor R for the Baja 1000 race in November (see their website for the bitchin' pics). Before the Baja, the engine is gonna tow two NASCAR vehicles for 24 hours around a speedway as a sort of supplemental break-in. The original break-in will occur in a logging vehicle in the Pacific Northwest, pullin' logs outta the woods. Then the engine will be ready for Raptor duty in the desert. This will be one weird Raptor R, with about 57 percent of the displacement of the Raptor R's regular 6.2L V8, but sportin' the turbos that put the Boost in EcoBoost.
Hell, why not? :huh:
RUNNING HOT AND COLD: FORD F-150 WITH ECOBOOST ENGINE TAKES ON BAJA 1000 OFF-ROAD DESERT RACE
A 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost? will take on the demanding Tecate SCORE Baja 1000 long-distance desert endurance race this year, marking Ford's EcoBoost engine racing debut.
Ford trucks have won more Baja 1000 titles (13) than any other four-wheel manufacturer. Ford will equip the F-150 off-road race truck with the same stock EcoBoost engine that already has experienced 150,000 equivalent miles of dyno testing and other real-world tests as the final step in the durability torture tests. The EcoBoost truck engine is tested to the equivalent of more than 1.6 million total miles of harsh customer use in the lab, in test cells and on the road.
The new F-150 EcoBoost has 420 lb.-ft. of torque ? more than any competitive half-ton truck ? and provides an unequaled combination of capability and fuel economy. Racing the EcoBoost truck engine under these conditions, which include temperature swings from just above freezing to well above 100 degrees, harsh terrain and at least 30 hours driving the course, helps validate the testing of the new truck engine.
Dallas, Sept. 23, 2010 ? The 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost stands ready to challenge and conquer the harsh environment that makes the world-famous Tecate SCORE Baja 1000 an unparalleled test of man and machine ? and the world racing debut for Ford's EcoBoost engine.
Ford will enter a 2011 F-150 in November's prestigious long-distance desert endurance race, powered by a stock version of the new 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engine that will be available in the 2011 F-150 early next year.
The engine was selected randomly off the line from Cleveland Engine Plant to prove out the rigid durability and reliability tests the engine endured during development. The Baja 1000 race is part of an extensive torture test program by Ford for customers to see for themselves the extreme durability testing and development of the class-leading EcoBoost truck engine.
Viewers can visit fordvehicles.com/2011F150 to get an exclusive look at how first an EcoBoost truck engine endured thousands of miles on the dynamometer and in the laboratory to ensure 150,000-mile durability for even the most demanding F-150 customer before taking on real-world challenges.
On the same site will be a series of web-based documentaries hosted and narrated by Mike Rowe of the popular Discovery Channel series Dirty Jobs. These documentaries will show the toughest challenges the 2011 F-150 EcoBoost faces in the real world, including:
Hauling timber
The 2011 F-150 EcoBoost joins a lumber company in Oregon, working as a log skidder to show off its best-in-class hauling and 420 ft-lbs of torque. This severe duty involves dragging logs weighing thousands of pounds up steep grades. The 2011 F-150 EcoBoost replaces larger, heavy-duty machinery to perform the task.
24 hours of NASCAR
Following its work in the Pacific Northwest, the same 2011 F-150 EcoBoost heads to Homestead-Miami Speedway in Florida to demonstrate its best-in-class towing capability of 11,300 pounds. The truck will tow a pair of Sprint Cup Ford Fusions for 24 hours around the 1.5-mile oval. Befitting the track, site of the NASCAR Sprint Cup season finale, the fully stock 2011 F-150 EcoBoost will run at full throttle, reaching speeds in excess of 90 mph on the straights, stopping only for tires and more 87 octane fuel.
Teardown
After all the pulling, towing, desert racing and much more, viewers will get an inside look at the durability of the EcoBoost when Ford engineers tear it down to evaluate the extensive testing program.
"The engine going into our race truck for the Tecate SCORE Baja 1000 is the same engine going into the 2011 Ford F-150 that customers can purchase starting next year," said Eric Kuehn, chief engineer of the 2011 F-150. "No special blocks or structural upgrades. We are fully confident that because of the strict testing the 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engines underwent before we started manufacturing, it will take anything the desert can dish out."
Ford will compete in full-size stock class, which includes competitors with unlimited V8 engines. For safety, a full roll cage is added to each truck. Also allowed for competition are modifications to the suspension, tires and wheels.
Built Ford Tough testing
Durability and reliability are key in this type of racing environment. Temperatures can range from just above freezing at night to nearly 120 degrees during the day and the yet-to-be-announced race course may go from just above sea level to more than 8,500 feet above and back down again.
Three avenues that test and validate all truck engines are computer analysis, laboratory work and in-vehicle exercises. All the tests together replicate more than 1.6 million miles of customer usage ? the harshest-use customer. A customer profile reflecting extreme-use driving style, road types and vehicle usage, including maximum towing and payload situations, was developed to underpin the testing program.
For the 2011 F-150 EcoBoost, that includes analytical time, dynamometer testing at full boost, in-vehicle test time, thermal test cycles ranging from 20 degrees Fahrenheit to 235 degrees Fahrenheit, fatigue testing with engine running nonstop between peak horsepower and peak torque and road tests.
In addition to being durable and reliable, race engines have to perform. Desert endurance racing's extreme environment is where the 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engine's inherent performance advantages ? twin turbochargers and direct fuel injection to boost performance ? will shine. This strategy produces 420 lb.-ft. of torque at 2,500 rpm and 365 horsepower at 5,000 rpm ? all on regular fuel. The EcoBoost truck engine has up to 90 percent of its peak torque available from 1,700 rpm to 5,000 rpm.
"The torque starts right away and is very consistent right up to the engine's redline. That performance is so key to the duty cycle of an off-road racer," said Cliff Irey, Ford truck motorsports lead.
Off-road racers ? like many F-150 customers ? spend most of their time between 20 mph and 50 mph, accelerating and decelerating. Another similarity is the F-150s in the Baja 1000 will be fueled with regular pump gasoline rather than specially blended racing fuel that is almost four times as expensive.
"In addition to durability, reliability and top performance, we expect the EcoBoost to get outstanding fuel mileage to the point of saving one or two fuel stops during the race," Irey said.
Pushing production engines to the limit in this harsh environment is nothing new for Ford. The new 6.2-liter V8 gasoline engine standard in the 2011 Ford F-Series Super Duty, 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor and the 2011 Ford Harley-Davidson? F-150 helped a Raptor R earn a podium finish in the 2008 Baja 1000.
It's part of a Ford heritage that includes more Baja 1000 and Best in the Desert titles than any four-wheel manufacturer. Earlier this year, Ford swept the top eight places in Class 1400 ? "Trick Truck" class of the Best in the Desert's Las Vegas to Reno event.
"The desert racing environment has been a tremendous laboratory for Ford over the years," said Kuehn. "We're eager to watch the 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engine prove its durability, reliability, performance and fuel economy in this tough setting."
That's actually pretty impressive.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 24, 2010, 03:13:40 PM
That's actually pretty impressive.
There's more! They got this engine via a random pull off the EcoBoost V6 assembly line and ran it on a dynamometer through a simulated 150,000 miles of typical driving.
THEN they start the logging, the race car towing, and the Baja. Is this weird or what? :confused:
Just caught a Raptor on Ice Road Truckers that was used by the Alaska DOT. Looks like this is the best all purpose truck.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on September 28, 2010, 10:05:12 PM
Just caught a Raptor on Ice Road Truckers that was used by the Alaska DOT. Looks like this is the best all purpose truck.
And Abu Dhabi in the Gulf uses them for law enforcement in the deserts, too.
Looks like the competition needs to hurry up and get in the game.
Ford has been so abominable in power train development over the years it's simply hard for me to compute these power trains, especially that they are happening all in the same model year. The last time Ford led the charge in engines was in 1932 with the original Flathead V8...
I'm still not so sure why offer the 5.0L and the Ecoboost though. Seems very redundant.
Quote from: GoCougs on September 29, 2010, 10:19:49 PM
Ford has been so abominable in power train development over the years it's simply hard for me to compute these power trains, especially that they are happening all in the same model year. The last time Ford led the charge in engines was in 1932 with the original Flathead V8...
I'm still not so sure why offer the 5.0L and the Ecoboost though. Seems very redundant.
The EcoBoost has much higher torque numbers and has the highest tow rating out of all the engines.
It's going to be interesting how well the truck crowd accepts a turbo V6. I hope it does well.
Quote from: SVT666 on September 29, 2010, 10:57:05 PM
The EcoBoost has much higher torque numbers and has the highest tow rating out of all the engines.
I bet that has more to do with the marketing team than the engineering team on that one.
Quote from: the Teuton on September 29, 2010, 11:42:19 PM
I bet that has more to do with the marketing team than the engineering team on that one.
Yeah, engine power/torque has virtually nothing to do with tow rating; even though the new SAE spec takes into account minimum acceleration it is glacial.
I don't see that the average truck buyer would pay extra over the 5.0L for this. Offering the E-B sounds like a boutique offering for PR purposes.
Quote from: the Teuton on September 29, 2010, 11:42:19 PM
I bet that has more to do with the marketing team than the engineering team on that one.
the Teuton: Well, the EcoBoost tows 11,300 pounds like the 411 HP 6.2L V8, but doubtless gets vastly better mileage unloaded (while towing 11,300 pounds, not so much). And it may get better mileage than the TiVCT 5.0L V8 unloaded, too. Ford is expecting the EPA to rate the EcoBoost TiVCT V6 at 24 MPG in an F-150, but the EPA hasn't done their testing yet.
So it's
both an Engineering and a Marketing issue: Engineering makes it possible, and Marketing lets you know about it. :thumbsup:
Submariner, it's time to batten down the hatches, take 'er deep, rig for silent running, and prepare for depth charge attack 'cuz here's another "High speed screws closing fast, Skipper!" Raptor rave :cry:, courtesy of www.autoblog.com:
Review: 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2
by Jeremy Korzeniewski (RSS feed) on Oct 26th 2010 at 11:55 AM
Frequent Flying In Ford's Factory Baja Blaster
A scant 30 minutes had passed after taking possession of this 2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor until we had all four of its wheels off the ground. We'd have done the deed even sooner, but our destination ? a Baja-style test track in the middle of the desert outside Phoenix, Arizona ? was, understandably, far enough out of town that no locals would be able to complain of excessive noise or mini dust tornadoes encroaching on their own tracts of brush-filled paradise.
After all, the modern conveniences of day-to-day life just don't mix with such uncivilized activities as seeing how much air you can put between your truck's skid plates and solid ground.
And therein lies the beauty of this particular beast. Since when did such niceties as in-dash navigation with voice-activated SYNC, a leather interior with heated seats, dual-zone climate control and satellite radio count as standard equipment in a truck that was built primarily for 100-mile-per-hour blasts through the desert?
Since late 2009, actually, when FoMoCo unleashed the first version of the F-150 SVT Raptor on an unsuspecting public. Unlike all previous products from Ford's Specialty Vehicle Team, including the F-150-based SVT Lightning, this truck does its best work once the pavement ends and the really nasty stuff begins.
It's no secret that we've loved the Raptor ever since our first experience behind the wheel, and now it's better than ever before. How so? Keep reading to find out.
Our biggest and perhaps only real complaint with the Raptor when it launched was that its 5.4-liter V8 engine was underpowered for the kind of shenanigans its heavy-duty chassis and beefed-up suspension encouraged. Ford heard our cries for more power, and rectified the situation with a new 6.2-liter V8 that was adapted for Raptor duty after first seeing action in Ford's Super Duty truck line.
Here's the first bit of truly great news: Everything positive that we said about the original Raptor carries over completely intact with the 6.2-powered version. That includes the solidity of the fully boxed ladder frame, which is a full seven inches wider than the standard F-150, as well as the 17-inch wheels with specially-crafted BF Goodrich All Terrain tires.
You'll find knobs inside the Raptor 6.2 to switch between two-wheel drive, four-wheel drive high and four-wheel drive low. When the going gets really tough, the tough can get going by locking the rear end and engaging Off Road Mode, which uses electronic wizardry to change throttle and transmission shift maps along with the thresholds of the standard stability, traction and ABS brake controls. Finally, there is a handy-dandy Hill Descent Control function that will keep you from shooting up or down steep inclines too quickly.
And if you do happen to get in over your head despite all the efforts of the truck's hive mind of computer systems, the most important carryover bits and pieces would be those that make up the front and rear suspension. There are 11.2 inches of bump-ingesting travel up front and 12.1 inches at the rear. Damping duties are ably handled by a special set of Fox Racing Shocks that sport triple interior-bypass valving, enabling them to do things like leap tall mountains in a single bound. These suspenders are extraordinarily impressive and all but impossible to find fault with.
Now, let's get back to that Baja test track. We quickly found that you don't just drive a Raptor. You pilot it. The first thing we did after arriving at our not-so-secret testing location was to point the truck's massive front tires in the general direction of the track's largest ramp and bury the accelerator pedal. After that initial successful takeoff and landing, we repeated the deed over and over again... completely in the name of science, of course. Suffice it to say, the process of jumping a three-ton pickup truck never gets old, but we were still curious how the bright orange machine would handle the rest of the track's obstacles.
A couple of laps around the testing circuit proved a handful of points. First, it may indeed be possible to break a Raptor, but you'd need to do something truly stupid to make it happen. We're talking an act so completely without rational thought that it would have to be eligible for a Darwin Award if you didn't make it. A more likely scenario, however, is that you scare yourself into common sense at the first sign of pushing too far into the Raptor's prodigious bag of capabilities.
Second, the biggest obstacle to earning your Raptor Pilot's license is the guts to keep your foot on the throttle in spite of your brain's ever present urgings to maintain control over life and limb.
Third, once you find the elusive switch that shuts down your brain's dogged insistence on self preservation, the Raptor will take on almost anything that Mother Nature has in its arsenal. Vespa-sized boulders, tire-swallowing holes and trenches large enough to halt a blitzkrieg are all dispatched with an air of invincibility. If you find yourself unsure of whether or not an area is passable, it probably just means that you're not going fast enough to jump it. We're actually not joking here ? the truck's shocks are designed with multiple levels of damping force, which basically means the biggest of hits are soaked up at least as compliantly as smaller obstacles, and the rebound is much less likely to be jarring when you're moving at a decent speed.
The final off-road tidbit we learned during our visit to the track is that the 6.2-liter engine is a much more willing and able partner than the previous 310-horsepower 5.4-liter Triton V8. Perhaps that goes without saying, but the fact of the matter is that the Raptor easily handles every one of the 411 horsepower and 434 pound-feet of torque the new engine is capable of dishing out.
And now it's time for the real revelation the Raptor has been hiding from you all this time: It's an extremely obliging machine when it's time to leave the desert expanses and head back home. What seemed just moments before like something created specifically to jump across the gaping hole of an unpronounceable volcano in Iceland is now a good old Ford F-150 pickup truck... and a luxurious one at that.
Amazingly, the ride is smooth and well controlled while driving on surface streets. Further, the cabin is quiet and cozy enough inside for front-seat passengers to carry on a conversation with those in the back seat without yelling. Steering is reasonably tight considering the giant rubber balloons on which the Raptor rides. The steering feel is a bit too light and quick for our tastes, but it's certainly on par with the rest of its off-road oriented full-size truck competitors.
Perhaps the biggest issue with the Raptor is its dismal fuel economy :orly:. We averaged a woeful 13.7 miles per gallon in everyday driving, which included more long slogs on the highway than balls-to-the-wall stretches of off-roading.
It's something of a contradiction in sheetmetal, the F-150 SVT Raptor. On one hand, it's a vehicle bred specifically to tackle the Baja 1000. On the other, it's refined enough to take you and the Mrs. out for a surprise night on the town. Well, that's assuming she doesn't mind being seen in our tester's bright orange paint and matte black graphics package. We'd at least take a pass on the matching interior scheme.
Perhaps it goes without saying, but we thoroughly enjoyed the week we spent with the 2010 Ford Raptor 6.2. All the good stuff we've ever written about the Raptor applies to this newest version, but sadly, our opinion that it needs more power remains.
Clearly, the 6.2-liter V8 is the engine Ford's Raptor should have been blessed with from the very beginning. Naturally, we'll gladly take the extra 101 horses over the previous engine, but in reality we're still left wanting more, and we have to wonder how Ford's more fuel efficient but surprisingly powerful 3.5-liter EcoBoost V6 powerplant would feel in this off-road application.
Still, at a base price of $41,995 (a reasonable $3,000 premium over the outgoing 5.4, which is no longer available for 2011), you won't hear us complaining very much at all about the fun-per-dollar quotient of the 6.2-powered Raptor. While a plane ticket might cost less, you won't have more fun flying than on the back of this bird of prey.
Interesting, yet another review of a Ford product pining for more power, or in the least implying the power stats don't match performance.
I look at both the 6.2L and 5.0L and the stats look great WRT the competition but the motors just aren't performing as they should. :huh:
Quote from: GoCougs on October 26, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
Interesting, yet another review of a Ford product pining for more power, or in the least implying the power stats don't match performance.
I look at both the 6.2L and 5.0L and the stats look great WRT the competition but the motors just aren't performing as they should. :huh:
Fanboi.
The Mustang is hitting 60 mph in 4.4 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 12.7 seconds in virtually every single test published. The 5.0L is performing just fine.
As for the this review, it makes no mention of an under performing engine. All they say is that they want even more power, which...let's be honest...is only natural of anyone who likes horsepower.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 26, 2010, 02:41:59 PM
Interesting, yet another review of a Ford product pining for more power, or in the least implying the power stats don't match performance.
I look at both the 6.2L and 5.0L and the stats look great WRT the competition but the motors just aren't performing as they should. :huh:
Yep, Ford builds vehicles that outperform their engines--which are clearly the best engines built in North America.
That's because they can. Ford's got the know-how, the technology, the modern factories, and the talented employees to push the limits further and further back. Ford knows it's the entire vehicle, not just the engine.
Back in the 'Sixties, every manufacturer built engines that outperformed their vehicles--Ford included. But Ford got smarter, and as a result they're the only domestic manufacturer that hasn't gone bankrupt at least once. Not only do Ford engines perform better than competing engines in their objective, measured statistics, but they back that up by performing better in the vehicles, too.
Let's tool on down to a GM or Chrysler dealership and let The Braying Ass show us the GM Raptor or the Chrysler Raptor. Yeah, they got nothin'...
We've already gotten our jollies smirking at the GM Mustang and the Chrysler Mustang! Auto mags don't even bother including Camaros and Challengers in comparos of Mustang GTs, BMW M3s, and Nissan 370Zs--and that's BEFORE the Boss 302 and Boss 302 Laguna Seca hit the pavement...
Even Ford's EcoBoost V6 F150 tows hundreds of pounds more than the biggest V8s offered in the Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Naturally, Ford's naturally-aspirated V8s outtow the V8s of their competitors and Ford's naturally-aspirated V6 outtows the V6s of its competitors.
Better engines in better vehicles = superior products for the money.
Pssst, GM...Chrysler--it ain't the 'Sixties anymore. Helllloooooo.........
Quote from: SVT666 on October 26, 2010, 04:08:18 PM
Fanboi.
The Mustang is hitting 60 mph in 4.4 seconds and the 1/4 mile in 12.7 seconds in virtually every single test published. The 5.0L is performing just fine.
As for the this review, it makes no mention of an under performing engine. All they say is that they want even more power, which...let's be honest...is only natural of anyone who likes horsepower.
If that were the case you'd not only have volumes of data to post you'd not be compelled to attack and be an apologist.
The '11 Mustang GT is on average a 12.9 - 13.0 performer but by engine stats (+ gearing especially) it should be quicker.
Quote from: Nethead on October 27, 2010, 08:40:49 AM
Yep, Ford builds vehicles that outperform their engines--which are clearly the best engines built in North America.
That's because they can. Ford's got the know-how, the technology, the modern factories, and the talented employees to push the limits further and further back. Ford knows it's the entire vehicle, not just the engine.
Back in the 'Sixties, every manufacturer built engines that outperformed their vehicles--Ford included. But Ford got smarter, and as a result they're the only domestic manufacturer that hasn't gone bankrupt at least once. Not only do Ford engines perform better than competing engines in their objective, measured statistics, but they back that up by performing better in the vehicles, too.
Let's tool on down to a GM or Chrysler dealership and let The Braying Ass show us the GM Raptor or the Chrysler Raptor. Yeah, they got nothin'...
We've already gotten our jollies smirking at the GM Mustang and the Chrysler Mustang! Auto mags don't even bother including Camaros and Challengers in comparos of Mustang GTs, BMW M3s, and Nissan 370Zs--and that's BEFORE the Boss 302 and Boss 302 Laguna Seca hit the pavement...
Even Ford's EcoBoost V6 F150 tows hundreds of pounds more than the biggest V8s offered in the Silverado, Sierra, and Ram 1500. Naturally, Ford's naturally-aspirated V8s outtow the V8s of their competitors and Ford's naturally-aspirated V6 outtows the V6s of its competitors.
Better engines in better vehicles = superior products for the money.
Pssst, GM...Chrysler--it ain't the 'Sixties anymore. Helllloooooo.........
For all your screed and apologism Ford
still can't build a better motor than GM's decades-old pooprod V8. In fact to see the last time Ford built the best motor in Detroit one has to go back to the Flathead of the 1930s. :facepalm:
(Wind him up and watch him go - LOL.)
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 09:29:47 AM
If that were the case you'd not only have volumes of data to post you'd not be compelled to attack and be an apologist.
The '11 Mustang GT is on average a 12.9 - 13.0 performer but by engine stats (+ gearing especially) it should be quicker.
This is the latest test that just came out in the last Motor Trend magazine.
2011 Mustang GT vs. BMW M3 (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1010_2011_2011_ford_mustang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html)
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 09:52:13 AM
For all your screed and apologism Ford still can't build a better motor than GM's decades-old pooprod V8. In fact to see the last time Ford built the best motor in Detroit one has to go back to the Flathead of the 1930s. :facepalm:
(Wind him up and watch him go - LOL.)
Ford builds some of the best motors on the market...period.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 27, 2010, 10:14:30 AM
This is the latest test that just came out in the last Motor Trend magazine.
2011 Mustang GT vs. BMW M3 (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/1010_2011_2011_ford_mustang_gt_vs_2011_bmw_m3_comparison/index.html)
Guess we forgot the myriad other standardized tests. There are literally too many too continue to post that plainly show an average of ~12.9-13.0 sec. About the only way to wiggle your way out of this reality is to blame live axle for complications in launching. Possible, but then do you have the moxie to admit the obviousness of it?
Motor Trend: 12.8 sec. (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1003_2011_ford_mustang_gt_premium_test/test_numbers.html)
Inside Line: 13.0 sec. (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-full-test-and-video.html)
Car and Driver: 13.2 sec. (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/10q2/2011_ford_mustang_gt_5.0_vs._2010_chevrolet_camaro_ss-comparison_tests/2011_ford_mustang_gt_5.0_page_3)
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 10:29:16 AM
Guess we forgot the myriad other standardized tests. There are literally too many too continue to post that plainly show an average of ~12.9-13.0 sec. About the only way to wiggle your way out of this reality is to blame live axle for complications in launching. Possible, but then do you have the moxie to admit the obviousness of it?
Motor Trend: 12.8 sec. (http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupes/112_1003_2011_ford_mustang_gt_premium_test/test_numbers.html)
Inside Line: 13.0 sec. (http://www.insideline.com/ford/mustang/2011/2011-ford-mustang-gt-50-full-test-and-video.html)
Car and Driver: 13.2 sec. (http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparisons/10q2/2011_ford_mustang_gt_5.0_vs._2010_chevrolet_camaro_ss-comparison_tests/2011_ford_mustang_gt_5.0_page_3)
Motor Trend's 12.8 is almost exactly the same as their 12.7 is the latest Mustang vs. M3 test.
Edmunds is always slower than most tests. Always.
Car and Driver's Mustang was an anomaly. It was slower than the Camaro in every acceleration test except 0-60 (tied). Every other comparo has the Mustang ahead of the Camaro all the way to 130 mph. This is the only comparo where that didn't happen.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 09:52:13 AM
For all your screed and apologism Ford still can't build a better motor than GM's decades-old pooprod V8. In fact to see the last time Ford built the best motor in Detroit one has to go back to the Flathead of the 1930s. :facepalm:
(Wind him up and watch him go - LOL.)
Of course the Ford flathead V8 was the hotrodder's motor of choice for a couple of decades; until GM came out with their OHV high compression V8s in the late '40s for Oldmobile (rocket) and Cadillac. If you could find one at a decent price they worked pretty good in a little '32 roadster or even a late '40s Ford Coupe.
Although both Ford and Chevy had OHV V8s by '55 - Ford Y-block and Chevy small-block - and the Y-blocks had a power advantage over the small-blocks, the small-block, due to weight, dimensions and availability - there there thousands of them in junk-yards all over the country - became the hotrodder's choice mainly due to convenience. In most respects, the Y-block was a better engine. The low skirting made it a smoother running and more ridged engine and it had more power; especially the E version (2X4bbl) and the F version (4bbl with a blower) that was used in the T-Bird and high-end Fords.
While Chevy continued developing their small-block with some success, the Y-block was relatively short-lived (until '64). In the meantime, it had been superceded by the legendary FE series; a derivative of the Y-block as well as the Windsor small-block V8. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of engines is well aware of the accomplishments of these famous powerplants. The FE, other than dominating domestic racing for long periods of time, powered the iconic GT40 (427 version) to its wins at Le Mans. The Windsor small-block, as well as winning innumerable races in various formats powered the Shelby Daytona Couple to the FIA championship in 1965 beating the elite sportscars of the era including Ferrari. As well, in 1963 a near stock version of it was fitted into a couple of Lotus Indy cars being driven by Jim Clark and Dan Gurney. Though only finishing 2nd and 7th, it proved a worthy competitor against the Offenhausers of the era and, after some tinkering, aluminium block, DOHC 4vpc, etc. it blew the Offys off the track and dominated in the series for years. We should all know what the Boss series did in the Trans Am Series as well as all the exotic hybrids of the time into which the Windsor was fitted.
This only touches the extent to which Ford Power dominated racing in the golden era; based largely on the FE and Windsor series. If one were to venture over the pond at the time you would find the crown jewel of engines from the small Ford sponsored shop of Messrs Costin and Duckworth. Never has an engine so dominated the pinnacle of motorsports so convincingly as the Ford Cosworth DFV.
(http://www.atspeedimages.com/monterey_historics_2003/cosworth_ford_dfv_engine_rear.jpg)
Quote from: SVT666 on October 27, 2010, 10:48:58 AM
Motor Trend's 12.8 is almost exactly the same as their 12.7 is the latest Mustang vs. M3 test.
Edmunds is always slower than most tests. Always.
Car and Driver's Mustang was an anomaly. It was slower than the Camaro in every acceleration test except 0-60 (tied). Every other comparo has the Mustang ahead of the Camaro all the way to 130 mph. This is the only comparo where that didn't happen.
:facepalm: It's not my fault testing is showing it ain't as quick as it should be.
Edmunds is slower, huh? Edmunds Inside, Camaro SS: 13.0 sec. (http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2010/2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-full-test-and-video.html) Interesting, as we know the Camaro SS has been a rock solid 12.9 - 13.0 sec performer in virtually every single test.
The only logical implication that can be drawn from your incessant thread pollution ANYTIME the Mustang is mentioned is that its live axle is making it difficult to get consistent acceleration results. I accept your verdict with grace.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 11:31:02 AM
:facepalm: It's not my fault testing is showing it ain't as quick as it should be.
Edmunds is slower, huh? Edmunds Inside, Camaro SS: 13.0 sec. (http://www.insideline.com/chevrolet/camaro/2010/2010-chevrolet-camaro-ss-full-test-and-video.html) Interesting, as we know the Camaro SS has been a rock solid 12.9 - 13.0 sec performer in virtually every single test.
The only logical implication that can be drawn from your incessant thread pollution ANYTIME the Mustang is mentioned is that its live axle is making it difficult to get consistent acceleration results. I accept your verdict with grace.
It has nothing to do with the live axle. Your precious Camaro got it's ass kicked and you can't accept it. You have become the Nethead of the Camaro world. That's my verdict.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 27, 2010, 11:26:38 AM
Of course the Ford flathead V8 was the hotrodder's motor of choice for a couple of decades; until GM came out with their OHV high compression V8s in the late '40s for Oldmobile (rocket) and Cadillac. If you could find one at a decent price they worked pretty good in a little '32 roadster or even a late '40s Ford Coupe.
Although both Ford and Chevy had OHV V8s by '55 - Ford Y-block and Chevy small-block - and the Y-blocks had a power advantage over the small-blocks, the small-block, due to weight, dimensions and availability - there there thousands of them in junk-yards all over the country - became the hotrodder's choice mainly due to convenience. In most respects, the Y-block was a better engine. The low skirting made it a smoother running and more ridged engine and it had more power; especially the E version (2X4bbl) and the F version (4bbl with a blower) that was used in the T-Bird and high-end Fords.
While Chevy continued developing their small-block with some success, the Y-block was relatively short-lived (until '64). In the meantime, it had been superceded by the legendary FE series; a derivative of the Y-block as well as the Windsor small-block V8. Anyone with a rudimentary knowledge of engines is well aware of the accomplishments of these famous powerplants. The FE, other than dominating domestic racing for long periods of time, powered the iconic GT40 (427 version) to its wins at Le Mans. The Windsor small-block, as well as winning innumerable races in various formats powered the Shelby Daytona Couple to the FIA championship in 1965 beating the elite sportscars of the era including Ferrari. As well, in 1963 a near stock version of it was fitted into a couple of Lotus Indy cars being driven by Jim Clark and Dan Gurney. Though only finishing 2nd and 7th, it proved a worthy competitor against the Offenhausers of the era and, after some tinkering, aluminium block, DOHC 4vpc, etc. it blew the Offys off the track and dominated in the series for years. We should all know what the Boss series did in the Trans Am Series as well as all the exotic hybrids of the time into which the Windsor was fitted.
This only touches the extent to which Ford Power dominated racing in the golden era; based largely on the FE and Windsor series. If one were to venture over the pond at the time you would find the crown jewel of engines from the small Ford sponsored shop of Messrs Costin and Duckworth. Never has an engine so dominated the pinnacle of motorsports so convincingly as the Ford Cosworth DFV.
(http://www.atspeedimages.com/monterey_historics_2003/cosworth_ford_dfv_engine_rear.jpg)
Very notable, but that's racing, some which Ford had nothing to do with, especially the production/retail side of Ford.
From the mid '50s forward Ford always played second (or third) fiddle save for MY2011:
Y-block: Chrysler Firepower (first gen Hemi) huge advantage
Windsor small block; 289, 302, 351: Chevy and Chrysler small blocks small advantage
Short-lived medium block; 351C, 400M; Chevy and Chrysler small and big blocks big advantage
FE series; 352, 390, 427: Chrysler Firepower small advantage, Chrysler and Chevy big blocks big advantage
'385' series; 429, 460: Chevy and Chrysler big blocks small advantage
Boss 429: Chrysler 426 Hemi, Chevy TriPower 427 and LS6 454 moderate advantage
Modular/Triton: Chevy small block moderate advantage
385 series: Chevy big block and Chrysler B/RB big blocks small advantage
Coyote 5.0, 6.2L: tentatively equivalent to
pooprod Dodge Hemi and Chevy LS
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 12:39:32 PM
Coyote 5.0, 6.2L: tentatively equivalent to Dodge Hemi and Chevy LS
Tentatively equivalent? Your fanboism is poking through Cougs.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 27, 2010, 12:43:17 PM
Tentatively equivalent? Your fanboism is poking through Cougs.
Not only is it only the very beginning stages of the 2011 MY, objective irrefutable data to date shows no advantage in Coyote engine performance when there should be at least some. Even if performance is equivlanet GM and Chrysler are doing it with archaic pooprod motors.
In short, "tentative" was me being usual nice self.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 12:54:38 PM
Not only is it only the very beginning stages of the 2011 MY, objective irrefutable data to date shows no advantage in Coyote engine performance when there should be at least some. Even if performance is equivlanet GM and Chrysler are doing it with archaic pooprod motors.
In short, "tentative" was me being usual nice self.
You're getting awfully desperate Cougs. At least when I was arguing last year that the 2010 Mustang GT (with 100 fewer horsepower) was still a better car than the Camaro despite being slower, the magazine comparos backed me up. You don't even have that.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 27, 2010, 02:02:01 PM
You're getting awfully desperate Cougs. At least when I was arguing last year that the 2010 Mustang GT (with 100 fewer horsepower) was still a better car than the Camaro despite being slower, the magazine comparos backed me up. You don't even have that.
Your unsavory behavior is as a result of the failure of your screaming-from-the-mountaintop predictions that the '11 GT would both be quicker and the Mustang the better seller. I would have thunk you would have been mature enough to have accepted reality. Seriously, what happens with you when the 'vert and Z28 are released next year???
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 03:44:35 PM
Your unsavory behavior is as a result of the failure of your screaming-from-the-mountaintop predictions that the '11 GT would both be quicker and the Mustang the better seller. I would have thunk you would have been mature enough to have accepted reality. Seriously, what happens with you when the 'vert and Z28 are released next year???
I was wrong about the sales, but I most certainly wasn't wrong about the Mustang being faster or the better car. But, sales do not make a great car.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 27, 2010, 04:21:55 PM
I was wrong about the sales, but I most certainly wasn't wrong about the Mustang being faster or the better car. But, sales do not make a great car.
You can objectively state the GT500 is quicker than all current Camaros (but using the heavier CTS-V coupe as a gauge the Z28 will run about 12 flat easily besting the GT500) and that the V6 Mustang is quicker than the V6 Camaro. Unfortunately you can not objectively state that the Mustang GT is quicker than the Camaro SS.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 11:10:26 PM
You can objectively state the GT500 is quicker than all current Camaros (but using the heavier CTS-V coupe as a gauge the Z28 will run about 12 flat easily besting the GT500) and that the V6 Mustang is quicker than the V6 Camaro. Unfortunately you can not objectively state that the Mustang GT is quicker than the Camaro SS.
Yes I can. You're the only one who won't.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 11:10:26 PM
You can objectively state the GT500 is quicker than all current Camaros (but using the heavier CTS-V coupe as a gauge the Z28 will run about 12 flat easily besting the GT500) and that the V6 Mustang is quicker than the V6 Camaro. Unfortunately you can not objectively state that the Mustang GT is quicker than the Camaro SS.
Take a look at Motor Trend's July 2010 issue. "Mustang takes on all comers" is the article. Mustang GT hits 60 mph in 4.4 and the 1/4 mile in 12.7, while the Camaro hit 60 mph in 4.7 and got through the 1/4 mile in 13.1. What's your excuse for that one?
Oh and in that same comparo, the Mustang GT, Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track, Challenger SRT-8, and Mustang V6 all beat the Camaro SS and Camaro RS in the final standings.
Quote from: SVT666 on October 28, 2010, 08:49:29 AM
Take a look at Motor Trend's July 2010 issue. "Mustang takes on all comers" is the article. Mustang GT hits 60 mph in 4.4 and the 1/4 mile in 12.7, while the Camaro hit 60 mph in 4.7 and got through the 1/4 mile in 13.1. What's your excuse for that one?
Oh and in that same comparo, the Mustang GT, Genesis Coupe 3.8 Track, Challenger SRT-8, and Mustang V6 all beat the Camaro SS and Camaro RS in the final standings.
SVT666: This is where The Braying Ass will choose to use the "Ignore" function on your postings again :tounge:
SVT666: You WILL want to read the November 2010 issue of Automobile magazine--with a '70 Boss 302 and a Boss 302 Laguna Seca on the cover and the banner headline "10 GREATEST MUSTANGS EVER! WILL THE NEW BOSS 302 BE NUMBER 11?" It all starts on page 52.
Editors Rusty Blackwell, Joe DeMatio, Joe Lorio, Evan McCausland, Mike Ofiara, Eric Tingwall, and Jim Campisano get together and select what they believe to be the Ten Greatest Mustangs so far--evidently in no particular order--from the '65 G.T. 350 to the '69-'70 Boss 302 to the '68(1/2) 428 Cobra Jet to the '84-'86 SVO to the '87-'93 LX 5.0 to the '93 Cobra to the '95 Cobra R to the '00 Cobra R to the '01 Bullitt to the '11 GT500.
Another article that begins on page 72 selects cars that provide Practicality with Performance for those in their twenties, those in their thirties, and those in their forties. Prices of the cars is the key, with cars for twenty-somethings being the least expensive (a Civic Si & a VW GTI), cars for the thirty-somethings being mid-priced (a 370Z & a Mustang GT), and cars for the forty-somethings being the most expensive (an M3 and an MB C63 AMG). A Twenty-something, a thirty-something, and a forty-something with track experiences were chosen to do the duties in each vehicle. The GTI, the GT, and the C63 AMG get the recommendations here.
Check it out!
:facepalm: cherry picking...
Car and Driver: Camaro SS 13.0 sec, Mustang GT 13.2 sec. (http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/b9bae4325b6d27dbfefe2c07775a541f.pdf)
You two and your embarrassing and shameful trolling, insecurity and apologism for all things Mustang. Ugh. Sorry, but I have no choice.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 28, 2010, 11:09:35 AM
:facepalm: cherry picking...
Car and Driver: Camaro SS 13.0 sec, Mustang GT 13.2 sec. (http://www.caranddriver.com/var/ezflow_site/storage/original/application/b9bae4325b6d27dbfefe2c07775a541f.pdf)
You two and your embarrassing and shameful trolling, insecurity and apologism for all things Mustang. Ugh. Sorry, but I have no choice.
You're the one cherry picking Cougs. That's the only comparo that has the Mustang slower than the Camaro. Your Camaro apologism, insecurity, and shameful trolling is embarrassing.
Meanwhile, back on the topic of the thread, comes this Car and Driver odyssey not through the deserts but through the permafrost :huh:. Why th' Hell not?
2010 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor 6.2 - Road Test
Driving north through Saskatchewan to the border of the Northwest Territories will seriously mess with your truck. Not to mention your internal organs.
BY JOHN PHILLIPS, October 2010
Specifications
VEHICLE TYPE: front-engine, rear/4-wheel-drive, 5-passenger, 2+2-door truck
PRICE AS TESTED: $48,765 (base price: $42,235)
ENGINE TYPE: SOHC 16-valve V-8, iron block and aluminum head, port fuel injection
Displacement: 379 cu in, 6210 cc
Power (SAE net): 411 bhp @ 5500 rpm
Torque (SAE net): 434 lb-ft @ 4500 rpm
TRANSMISSION: 6-speed automatic
DIMENSIONS:
Wheelbase: 133.0 in Length: 220.9 in
Width: 86.3 in Height: 78.4 in
Curb weight: 6100 lb
C/D TEST RESULTS:
Zero to 60 mph: 6.7 sec
Zero to 90 mph: 14.3 sec
Street start, 5?60 mph: 6.8 sec
Standing ?-mile: 15.3 sec @ 93 mph
Top speed (governor limited): 98 mph
Braking, 70?0 mph: 202 ft
Roadholding, 300-ft-dia skidpad: 0.70 g
FUEL ECONOMY:
EPA city/highway driving: N/A
C/D observed: 16 mpg
For years, I?d heard tales of a scenic but topographically malevolent gravel road that leads 420 miles to the top of the province of Saskatchewan, Canada. It dead-ends just 47 miles shy of the Northwest Territories. Plenty of Canadians and hard-core fishermen know of its existence, but few will describe it in any but the most vague, ominous, unhelpful terms.
?Helluva road,? said one.
?Kinda creepy,? offered another.
?You?ll wanna bring a truck,? advised a third. ?A sturdy truck. Not your own truck.?
A 411-hp SVT Raptor is a sturdy truck. And the example that arrived in our parking lot belonged to the Ford Motor Company.
Two-thousand and three miles later, we?d made it as far as La Ronge, Saskatchewan, which marked the end of pavement and the start of gravel. La Ronge is a dusty, hardscrabble burg, predominately populated by Woodland Cree. For photographer Marc Urbano, it represented terra incognita. Before dinner, I caught him studying a warning next to the restaurant?s steel door, scarred as if attacked by something wielding a rake. The sign said, ?Do not put cigarettes out on building.? Urbano had already been marginally unnerved by La Ronge?s North Mart grocery store, where we?d stocked up on survival provisions. Opposite the potato-chip aisle was a canoe for sale. ?I?ll have the Pringles, the elk jerky, a loaf of whole-wheat, and . . . wait a sec,? I said to the clerk. ?Oh, yeah, you know what I almost forgot? A 16-foot, green-fiberglass Pelican canoe.?
At dawn, we headed north and were surprised to find the gravel road remarkably well groomed, permitting bursts of up to 45 mph. At the 300-mile mark, we had reached Points North Landing, a fuel depot attached to a small airstrip hacked out of the granites and gneisses of the Precambrian Shield. The landscape was monotonous yet fetching, little of it touched by human hands?a steady panorama of stunted black spruce, birch, icy-blue ponds, and undulating fields of exposed cinnamon bedrock. ?This is gonna be a cinch,? I said to Urbano. At that point, the Raptor had suffered no injury save dirt. Its $1075 graphics package, which its designers call ?digital splash,? had been wholly obscured by analog splash. For free.
And that, of course, is when it all went nasty: God?s great banana skin.
The first biblical tribulation was a 100-yard-long sand pit, two or three feet deep. I hit it at maybe 30 mph. The truck stopped as if it had T-boned the Berlin Wall and showed no intention of moving until I selected 4WD low. The sand was like talc. When the Raptor powered out, milky, opaque plumes of the stuff billowed up astern. It didn?t matter, though, because I hadn?t seen a vehicle behind us for the previous nine hours.
The second biblical tribulation comprised corrugated surfaces, especially jarring on the uphill stretches. ?Corrugated,? though, is the wrong word. It was as if someone had dug foot-deep troughs laterally every six feet or so. Maybe you?ve seen those TV commercials where something fantastically heavy?like a locomotive?is dropped from 30 feet into a pickup?s bed, and the whole truck squats as if it might snap spindles and axles. Every couple of seconds or so, the Raptor likewise explosively squatted as its wheels slammed into the miniature canyons. The trick was to apply throttle only after regaining a smooth surface. Otherwise, the axles would tramp like jackhammers.
The third biblical tribulation was mile after hellish mile of granitic slabs, Mother Nature?s own paving stones laid out on the day she showed up for work drunk and petulant. I thought the side windows might pop into a thousand pieces. During one spleen-busting grand slam, Urbano?s cell phone momentarily levitated two feet above his lap. Later, he would discover that one of his zillion-dollar Canon lenses refused to focus on anything that wasn?t in the left-most edge of the frame. The pounding caused our seatbelts to cinch until they threatened to snap ribs. We hooked the belts uselessly behind our backs and continued untethered, wondering whether a closed head injury would hurt or merely induce welcome numbness.
I expected that the next impediment would be locusts. We weren?t that lucky. At 4:30?60 miles from the northernmost end of the road and six hours before sunset?the sky went dark. Actually, it went black, so perfectly Johnny Cash black that I turned on the high-beams, although I actually had plenty of grim glimpses of what was transpiring out there, given the sheet lightning that was now fragmenting the sky. Next came Thor?s own tympanic thunder, followed by the kind of rain you?d expect if someone had inverted a lake. Then hail began pinging off the Raptor?s roof, mimicking a Buddy Rich paradiddle clinic. Then came washouts, which were hard to identify because the whole road had churned into frothy chocolate milk. Then came dense fog, only it wasn?t fog?it was steam rising from our left, where the spruce and birch had burned a couple of hours earlier, which wasn?t hugely distressing until we traveled another mile to discover the spruce and birch still gaily ablaze. Steam, fog, or smoke?hard to tell?started puffing from the Raptor?s hood vents.
?You wanna get out and see if everything?s okay?? I asked Urbano.
?No,? he said. ?I already know. Everything?s not okay.?
Right about when I figured we might want to turn back?assuming we had fuel sufficient to return to Points North Landing, which was iffy?the sky cleared and the sun shone so brightly that sunglasses were unpacked. ?Helluva road,? I said to Urbano, as if I knew we?d make it. We passed beneath a birch limb where two immense ravens were perched, and I imagined one saying to the other, ?Jeez, too bad. Looked like quite a nice dinner there.?
Stony Rapids, population roughly 425, marks the end of the road. Literally. The village clings to an escarpment overlooking the raging Fond du Lac River. Portions of pickup trucks, in various stages of mauled desiccation, rest in front of almost every weather-beaten house, and mud-encrusted dogs sleep in the middle of intersections. At Scott?s General Store, a marten pelt is legal tender. Our accommodations that night were at Al?s Place, a clean motel owned by stern-looking Al Syne, who is mysteriously obsessive about locking his establishment?s front door. Al had already rolled his own truck on the way down to La Ronge. ?I knew I was gonna crash,? he recalls. ?I had a choice. Either bust through a snow berm into a lake, or hook the steering and probably roll. In the end, I decided I didn?t want to swim.?
At that point, we had successfully navigated the road without breaking the Raptor. Well, we loosened it up quite a bit. And, of course, there remained the ugly business of the return trip. Al suggested we air down the Raptor?s 35-inch tires and park once per hour to allow the shocks to cool. At 8:30 p.m., the motel?s lights flickered. ?They?ll go out for good momentarily,? Al pessimistically but accurately predicted. Sitting in the dim lobby, we asked about all the broke-back pickups, many only a few years old. ?The rule of thumb up here,? Al informed, ?is that you use up one truck per year. Then you get another.?
Our Tuxedo Black 2010 Raptor is more or less a clone of the Sunkist-orange Raptor we tested in December 2009. The big difference, of course, is the optional 6.2-liter V-8 ($3000), producing 411 horsepower rather than the 5.4-liter V-8?s meager 310. Readers will recall that this SVT truck in no way mimics the SVT Lightning stoplight racer that preceded it. Instead, the dirt-seeking Raptor is a factory-built off-roader, with improved approach and departure angles, greater ground clearance, custom shocks, and cast-aluminum front lower control arms that you?d find only on a truck belonging to someone named ?Iron Man.? With this ?bigger-engined Raptor, acceleration has improved, naturally, but not as much as 101 bonus horses might suggest. Sixty mph now rolls into view in 6.7 seconds (versus the 5.4-liter Raptor?s 8.0 seconds), and the quarter-mile disappears in 15.3 seconds at 93 mph (versus 16.3 seconds at 86 mph).
Monster BFGoodrich mudders and ?massive suspension travel?11.2 inches fore, 12.1 inches rear?do not a sports car make. The Raptor?s body rolls like a long-line trawler in the North Atlantic. Spirited on-ramp maneuvers often result in sunglasses, maps, and cell phones on the floor, and those huge all-terrain sidewalls feel as if they might roll over and de-bead.
In a straight line on pavement, however?all 4005 miles of it?the Raptor proved compellingly sorted. The tires were neither as noisy, squirmy, nor prone to wander as we expected, tracking loyally on interstates. What contributed most earnestly to the Raptor?s long-distance poise were, first, its terrific seats, with perfect lumbar and thigh support; and, second, its ?70s-era-Caddy-cushy ride, partly an upshot of its super-stretched lower control arms up front. If you tend to fall asleep during 13-hour driving stints, don?t expect to be awakened when the Raptor drifts starboard onto the berm. You won?t feel a thing.
The steering wheel?s red, top-dead-center stripe proved distracting, constantly dancing a left-right rumba in the driver?s peripheral vision, discordantly matching the shivers and gyrations of the lightweight composite hood. Here?s something odd. In the owner?s manual, Ford insists that the Raptor not be subjected to a commercial carwash. That?s because it?s more than seven inches wider than a stock F-150, so it might not fit. The company also warns against aiming a high-pressure spray wand at the stick-on splash graphics, which, we guess, tend to splash off. With options, our Raptor?s sticker soared to $48,765, pricey for an extended-cab F-150. Of course, it?s probably justifiable if you?re weekly navigating Forest Service roads, dousing fires ignited by lightning, or attacking Walker Evans?s driveway.
Our return southbound was slightly less vicious than the trek upstream, in part because the rain had largely snuffed the flaming black spruce. Unfortunately, the torrent had also transformed sections of the road into those recreational mud pits popular at state fairs and catfish-noodlers? conventions. The driver of a pale-blue van got crossed up, rolled, then endoed with force sufficient to cram the engine into the center console. And a gent piloting a small water tanker pinwheeled tail-first into a wet sandbank, high-centering his truck with apparent permanence. Urbano and I were the first on the scene. ?Been here eight hours,? the driver informed. ?You got anything to eat?? We built a Dagwood sandwich for the guy, then donated nuts, Pringles, Triscuits, granola bars, teriyaki caribou jerky, and three bottles of vitamin water. The sandwich was gone in three bites, then our rescuee began speed-jamming Triscuits with his right hand, even as he handed me a rusty chain with his left.
With the Raptor?s diff locked, I leaned into the throttle cautiously?I wasn?t sure how much more life the driveline possessed?until the truck was heaving in place, its BFGs eventually excavating individual foxholes large enough to house doughboys. The tanker moved not one inch. To my surprise, a southbound Chevy Silverado had pulled up, and I walked back to explain the situation. The driver was a Black Lake First Nation native, with muscled chest and forearms. He never turned his head to look at me. Eventually, I asked, ?So, what do you think we should do??
In a deep, throaty, Arnold-the-Terminator voice, he replied, ?Leave him.? Then he selected a gear, navigated six-inch-deep slop to bypass the Raptor, and continued southbound at a clip I considered unwise.
As I stood ruminating mid-road, a colony of black flies began feasting on my forearms, leaving red welts that resembled measles. I promised the tanker driver that I?d report his plight at Points North Landing. ?Yeah,? is all he said, shrugging his shoulders and wiping a glop of Hellmann?s off his chin. Then we returned to the pummeling.
The uphill slogs were the worst, where the wheels would slam, spin, then snap over sharp granite outcrops hidden by a couple of inches of sand. It made my neck ache. We lacerated a left-front sidewall, but a roadside spit test indicated the leak was minor. Something under the dash was making a kind of fabric-ripping sound; deep sand was causing the traction control to moo like a Hereford; and the truck?s bed was twisting three inches to the east when the cabin was headed west. ?This road,? Urbano suggested, ?should automatically void your warranty.?
As the worst of the craggy knolls approached, I silently began naming them: Big Bastard Butte, Hemorrhage Hill, Rio Vista the Vicious, Titanic Talus, and Now We?re Totally Screwed Promontory.
?Who?s totally screwed?? Urbano asked. I hadn?t realized I was talking out loud. A half-mile ahead, Urbano spied dust flung up from the red Silverado driven by the man he was now calling ?Mr. Leave Him.?
?You could catch that guy,? he urged. ?Get right on his bumper, and, you know, turn him.? There was a good 30 seconds of silence. Then Urbano added, ?I?ve been watching a lot of NASCAR.?
We passed a well-maintained roadside shrine at kilometer-marker 65. It commemorated either a fatal accident or Our Lady of Broken Driveshafts.
Ten miles out of Points North Landing?where we could buy precious fuel and take a 36-hour respite from door panels inflicting kidney welts?I remarked, ?I can?t believe the windshield isn?t busted.? That?s when a northbound F-350 shotgunned us with mini meteorites, gouging a spidery hole that caused Urbano to duck and cry out.
It had been another 6.5-hour march of misery?an average of 18.5 mph, not bad, considering. The Raptor was a festival of filth, its taillights so clayed over that not even brake lights were visible, and one exhaust tip was bent forward like a floppy puppy ear. But the truck wasn?t broken.
As we slowed, a wolf burst out of a spruce forest on our left, crossed the road like a cannonball?never so much as glancing at us?and disappeared into a thicket to starboard. As he ran, his body stretched out five or six feet, like a giant greyhound?s in the final furlong. I nosed the truck to where the wolf had penetrated a dense and dark stand of tamarack. Raptor pursuing canine. ?Wow,? I said. ?Think we should go look for him??
Urbano turned to face me. In his most earnest voice, he said, ?Leave him.?
:rockon:
Quote from: GoCougs on October 27, 2010, 12:39:32 PM
Very notable, but that's racing, some which Ford had nothing to do with, especially the production/retail side of Ford.
From the mid '50s forward Ford always played second (or third) fiddle save for MY2011:
Y-block: Chrysler Firepower (first gen Hemi) huge advantage
Windsor small block; 289, 302, 351: Chevy and Chrysler small blocks small advantage
Short-lived medium block; 351C, 400M; Chevy and Chrysler small and big blocks big advantage
FE series; 352, 390, 427: Chrysler Firepower small advantage, Chrysler and Chevy big blocks big advantage
'385' series; 429, 460: Chevy and Chrysler big blocks small advantage
Boss 429: Chrysler 426 Hemi, Chevy TriPower 427 and LS6 454 moderate advantage
Modular/Triton: Chevy small block moderate advantage
385 series: Chevy big block and Chrysler B/RB big blocks small advantage
Coyote 5.0, 6.2L: tentatively equivalent to pooprod Dodge Hemi and Chevy LS
Piffle and balderdash :rolleyes:. I disagree with everything you've stated.
So as to not diverge anymore from the thread topic I will state only a couple of short facts.
From
How Lincoln Cars Work (http://auto.howstuffworks.com/lincoln-cars5.htm)
Quote
1952, 1953, 1954 Lincoln Cars and Lincoln's Mechanical Advancements
The period from 1952-1954 was significant in Lincoln history. The most notable mechanical development was the make's first overhead-valve V-8: a new short-stroke design of 318 cid, good for 160 bhp at first and 205 bhp for 1953-54.
It was superior in many ways. Its crankshaft, for example, had eight counterweights versus most competitors' six. Intake valves were oversized for better breathing and higher specific output. (Among '53 engines, it produced 0.64 bhp per cubic inch against 0.63 for Cadillac and 0.54 for the Chrysler Hemi.) The crankcase extended below the crankshaft centerline to form an extremely stiff shaft support, hence this engine's family nickname of "Y-block."
Lincoln turned in some spectacular performances at the Carrera Panamericana -- virtually unrivaled in the Inter?national Standard Class. Lincolns took the first five places in 1952, the top four in '53, and first and second in 1954.
Regarding the later 'big blocks', though each in their own right were excellent engines, it was well known by builders that a Ford FE could easily withstand 700 bhp with the stock bottom end while a Chevy was not trusted beyond 500. The Ford 385-series was even more robust...and yes, the Boss 429 was the BOSS; unless you had the NASCAR version. If you wanted to boost the hp on a Chevy, better switch out the bottom end with an after-market assembly. As for the HEMI, no doubt it was a stout engine but it weighed 200 lbs. more than either the Ford or chevy. No wonder they were call the 'elephant'.
We could discuss small-blocks but, as previously mentioned, versions of stock and modified Windsors achieved legendary status; and the Cleveland was even sweeter, especially the 'Boss'. However, it was late to the table and the 'golden era' had faded into the dreary 70s. Yes, the Chevy small-block was the hotrodders choice before the muscle-car era but the Chrysler small-blocks :huh:. Just consider what was not achieved in the original Trans-Am series by them.
Now, back to the SVT Raptor...
Nah dog, I can't let you go that easily. If you disagree, how do you disagree?
For the most part you're diving into the realm of the aftermarket; any engine can be improved upon to almost infinite lengths. In context what counts is what Ford released in its retail products. Ford hasn't led in Detroit engine development since the first gen Chrysler Hemi debuted in the mid '50s.
I can't imagine any argument on any level that the Y-block was better than the first generation Hemi.
The Windsor was inherently constrained to small valves - Chevy and Chrysler regularly featured 1.88" intake valves and 2.02" on hi-po applications (Windsor never got close).
The Ford FE was built as competition for the Chevy W-block (348, 409) as both debuted in 1958 - the FE couldn't match the later Chevy or Chrysler big blocks.
The Cleveland was one of Ford's worst motors - the 4 bbl intake ports were far too large and the 2 bbl engine was far too heavy given its measly power output.
The Boss 429 had the same problems - far too much intake capacity (valves and intake ports) - the Chrysler 440 Six Pack, let alone the 426 Hemi, would east Boss 429s all day long.
The Modular/Triton at best matched the ancient pooprod Chevy small block but got blown out of the water by the LT and later LS.
Quote from: GoCougs on October 29, 2010, 06:54:45 PM
Nah dog, I can't let you go that easily. If you disagree, how do you disagree?
Okay, I'm dog and you're cat. :praise: Cat must read what dog wrote.
Quote
For the most part you're diving into the realm of the aftermarket; any engine can be improved upon to almost infinite lengths. In context what counts is what Ford released in its retail products. Ford hasn't led in Detroit engine development since the first gen Chrysler Hemi debuted in the mid '50s.
I can't imagine any argument on any level that the Y-block was better than the first generation Hemi.
I'm sure you can't, however, we're dealing with facts here. As stated in the snippet I previously posted, the Lincoln Y-block outperformed both the 1st gen hemi and the Cadillac/Oldmobile. Not only did it have better performance numbers, it was more robust (better built).
Quote
The Windsor was inherently constrained to small valves - Chevy and Chrysler regularly featured 1.88" intake valves and 2.02" on hi-po applications (Windsor never got close).
The Windsor was made in several versions by Ford as was the small-block by Chevy and not-so-much by Chrysler. Certainly the work-a-day 2 bbl. versions had no real appeal to the enthusiasts but the performance versions, in particular the Boss 302, were matchless.
Quote
The Ford FE was built as competition for the Chevy W-block (348, 409) as both debuted in 1958 - the FE couldn't match the later Chevy or Chrysler big blocks.
True, both the MEL and FE series came out in '58. The MELs were monsters and used to propel the behemoth Mercurys, Edsels and Lincolns at the time. Lots of torque and weighed a ton. Not exactly performance engines but very refined and purposeful.
The FEs started small, 332 cubes and, initially were outperformed by the larger displacement competitors, until the early 60s when the variations on the 427 - low-riser, medium-riser, high-riser, Tunnel port and the "SOC"; which was highly sought after but couldn't be had for love or money - emerged. Guess when the HEMI lost its edge and had to resort to trick wings and airflow to keep up to the Fords and Mercurys; and that is not even mentioning the 428 and 429 variations. The 385-series came along a little too late but had even more potential than the FEs. Chevy wasn't even in sight.
Quote
The Cleveland was one of Ford's worst motors - the 4 bbl intake ports were far too large and the 2 bbl engine was far too heavy given its measly power output.
Now this just tells me that you don't have a clue about the Cleveland or you're getting your information from very biased sites. It was one of the most desireable engines of the time. A light-weight block with mind-blowing potential. The 351 Boss was a big-block killer but, once again, a little too late to the game. Blame OPEC :huh:.
Quote
The Boss 429 had the same problems - far too much intake capacity (valves and intake ports) - the Chrysler 440 Six Pack, let alone the 426 Hemi, would east Boss 429s all day long.
Not in the real world. All being equal, especially the driver, a Mustang Boss 429 could edge out a Hemi Cuda all day long; and blow any SS 427 into the weeds.
Quote
The Modular/Triton at best matched the ancient pooprod Chevy small block but got blown out of the water by the LT and later LS.
Still it held the world's fastest car record sitting in the engine bay of a Koenigsegg CC. I wonder why they never used an LT or LS; or something from Chrysler? :huh: A 5.4 version in the GT outperformed a number of supercars of the day as well; and still does.
Quote from: FoMoJo on October 29, 2010, 07:51:25 PM
Okay, I'm dog and you're cat. :praise: Cat must read what dog wrote.
I'm sure you can't, however, we're dealing with facts here. As stated in the snippet I previously posted, the Lincoln Y-block outperformed both the 1st gen hemi and the Cadillac/Oldmobile. Not only did it have better performance numbers, it was more robust (better built).
The most power the Y-block ever yielded was 260 hp and that was wrung out with a dealer-only option dual quads in the most expensive Ford cars (i.e., T-bird). The smaller versions of the Y-block never cracked 200 hp. The 354 Chrysler Firepower made up to 340 hp and the 392 made up 345 hp. This was no contest.
Quote
The Windsor was made in several versions by Ford as was the small-block by Chevy and not-so-much by Chrysler. Certainly the work-a-day 2 bbl. versions had no real appeal to the enthusiasts but the performance versions, in particular the Boss 302, were matchless.
How was it matchless - Chevy and Chrysler motors were ALWAYS rated higher in hp for the entire life of the Windsor, up until 1996 when it finally died. The Boss 302 lived for only two model years because it was a horrible engine; 351c heads were just far too large. It got eaten on the street by the Chevy LT-1 and Chrysler 340 Six Pack.
Quote
True, both the MEL and FE series came out in '58. The MELs were monsters and used to propel the behemoth Mercurys, Edsels and Lincolns at the time. Lots of torque and weighed a ton. Not exactly performance engines but very refined and purposeful.
The FEs started small, 332 cubes and, initially were outperformed by the larger displacement competitors, until the early 60s when the variations on the 427 - low-riser, medium-riser, high-riser, Tunnel port and the "SOC"; which was highly sought after but couldn't be had for love or money - emerged. Guess when the HEMI lost its edge and had to resort to trick wings and airflow to keep up to the Fords and Mercurys; and that is not even mentioning the 428 and 429 variations. The 385-series came along a little too late but had even more potential than the FEs. Chevy wasn't even in sight.
Again, this is in racing where cars themselves. The FE was in all measures inferior to the Chevy and Chrysler big block. It was simply a much older design.
Quote
Now this just tells me that you don't have a clue about the Cleveland or you're getting your information from very biased sites. It was one of the most desireable engines of the time. A light-weight block with mind-blowing potential. The 351 Boss was a big-block killer but, once again, a little too late to the game. Blame OPEC :huh:.
Nah, even notice how there are virtually no Clevelands in hotrods nowadays? There's plenty of 'em out there. They're just not very good - too big, intake ports too whack. Windsor is a much better motor.
Quote
Not in the real world. All being equal, especially the driver, a Mustang Boss 429 could edge out a Hemi Cuda all day long; and blow any SS 427 into the weeds.
Again, we're talking engines. The 426 Hemi, 440 Six Pack, 454 LS6, and 427 Tripower all made more power and had more usable power bands.
Quote
Still it held the world's fastest car record sitting in the engine bay of a Koenigsegg CC. I wonder why they never used an LT or LS; or something from Chrysler? :huh: A 5.4 version in the GT outperformed a number of supercars of the day as well; and still does.
Again, a modified engine. Not sure why they chose it, actually.
The Corvette Z06 performed just as well yet cost half as much and used a normally aspirated LS7 pooprod motor; meaning, the LS7 was a better motor.
It's not the place for this discussion. If you want to continue it open another thread. I would start with the first OVH V8s from each of the manufacturers, Olds Rocket, Cadillac 331, Lincoln Y-block. Theres lots of info out there that's not conjecture. You might learn a thing or two. :huh:
I read this week-end that TV's History Channel uses an F150, a coupla Super Duties, and two Raptors to service the highway for the "Ice Road Truckers" series. Desert, mud, permafrost, and now ice. I'd rather see the Raptors on the ice than the tractor-trailer rigs!
Raptor who?
(http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2010/11/dodge-ram-runner-sema004.jpg)
God damn I wish that thing was street legal
Quote from: 68_427 on November 04, 2010, 07:02:59 PM
Raptor who?
God damn I wish that thing was street legal
68_427: Then get a Raptor :thumbsup:! Why wait around for the other manufacturers to imitate a Ford for the forty-zillionth time :facepalm:?
Don't be stupid... :lol:
Quote from: 68_427 on November 05, 2010, 05:29:31 PM
Don't be stupid... :lol:
68_427: 'Sorry! Just jokin'! :tounge: Maybe Ram will do somethin' like that, although I think they'd be better served to go with a Dakota-sized truck than with the major large full-sizer. Many dudes who want a factory pre-runner like the smaller trucks more--I do! I got a '66 Bronco and passed on the larger-but-beefier second edition Broncos that came out originally as '78 models. For the same reasons I woulda taken a GTO over a Catalina, Bonneville, or Grand Prix back in 1964--well,
that and no money to buy any of them :(
Back on what is page 15 of this thread using this woeful browser there is an article about the beating (No, Subbie, I ain't about to say "...a dead horse". Deal with it.) Ford is giving a Raptor with an EcoBoost V6 instead of the regulation SOHC VVT dual-sparkplug 6.2L V8. First was 150,000 "miles" on a dyno, then there's the Paul Bunyan (Sp?) session in the Pacific Northwest described below, followed by towing two NASCAR racecars for 24 hours non-stop around an oval, and finally competing in the Baja 1000--using the same EcoBoost V6 throughout:
Ford F150 Eco Boost Endures Torture Tests
http://media.ford.com/images/10031/110110_Timber_RearLogPile.jpg
? 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost? ?hero engine? demonstrates its best-in-class 420 lb.-ft of torque, especially its wealth of low-end torque, in Oregon by dragging logs weighing from two to almost five tons
? This real-world application is one of a series of videos documenting the torture tests for the 3.5-liter EcoBoost truck engine, which will be available in early 2011.
? Dyno stress web documentary shows this same engine already enduring the equivalent of 150,000 miles on the dynamometer, replicating the duty cycle of the harshest-use customer
? Up next for the 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost torture test is a 24-hour endurance challenge at Homestead-Miami Speedway towing an 11,300-pound trailer at maximum speed.
Ford Eco Boost Forum.com ? The 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost recently logged some tough miles in rugged Pacific Northwest country in the latest demonstration of its durability.
The new 3.5-liter EcoBoost ?torture test? truck engine moved from the lab to the outdoors with a stop at a logging company in Oregon. It?s the current phase of a multi-part series of Web-based documentaries that began when this randomly selected EcoBoost engine endured the equivalent of 150,000 miles or 10 years? use on the dynamometer, replicating the duty cycle of the harshest-use customer.
After the dyno torture testing, the engine was dropped into a new 2011 Ford F-150 to work as a log skidder for Nygaard Logging of Warrenton, Ore. Skidding is the process of moving harvested timber, after the branches have been removed, from the forest to a staging area where it is placed on a truck to be sent to a sawmill.
The 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost replaced a vehicle similar to a backhoe that ?ropes? the harvested timber using high-strength cables and drags it to the staging area.
The work was performed at Clatsop State Forest, where the 2011 F-150 EcoBoost pulled logs weighing from 4,000 to 9,000 pounds. That?s where the new engine?s best-in-class torque of 420 lb.-ft. at 2,500 rpm was essential ? especially low-end torque. Up to 90 percent of the EcoBoost truck engine?s peak torque is available from 1,700 rpm to 5,000 rpm ? all on regular fuel.
The EcoBoost truck engine also delivers best-in-class maximum towing capability of 11,300 pounds.
?Each of these real-world tests demonstrates the durability and reliability that is designed, engineered and manufactured into our new EcoBoost truck engines ? and all our truck engines,? said Eric Kuehn, chief engineer of the 2011 Ford F-150. ?This work in particular demonstrates the outstanding low-end torque the EcoBoost truck engine delivers.?
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This ain't the way most manufacturers on Earth test their trucks, but this is a Raptor which ain't like any other trucks on Earth...
The latest word from www.pickuptrucks.com is that there will be two EcoBoost 3.5L V6 Raptors in this week's Baja 1000--one using a stock EcoBoost 3.5L V6 with the stock six-speed automatic and one using the stock EcoBoost 3.5L V6 (transmission type not stated) that has done 150,000 simulated miles on a dyno, pulled logs for a logging company in the Pacific Northwest, pulled a trailer carrying two NASCAR stockers for 24 hours :confused:, and won some truck shoot-out. Both will be in race-prepped Raptors that ran the race in prior years so the chasses should be well-sorted. I'm a-thinkin' that the air filters need to be in easily removable locations for frequent replacement or they're gonna lose a lotta time down the peninsula--is the air filter box considered to be an official part (as in "must be OEM") of a stock engine in offroad racing rules books? Bad aura if they are...
EcoBoost Goes to the Baja 1000Posted by Mike Levine | November 12, 2010
By Robby DeGraff and Mike Levine
It?s official: Professional desert racers Mike McCarthy and Randy Merritt will each race a Ford F-150 EcoBoost V-6 truck in this year?s SCORE International Baja 1000.
The 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 is the first application of Ford?s gasoline direct-injection twin-turbo technology in a half-ton pickup. It?s Ford?s effort to shrink engine displacement for improved fuel economy while delivering tons of low-end power. In the 2011 F-150, the 3.5 V-6 is rated a strong 365 horsepower (at 5,000 rpm) and 420 pounds-feet of torque (at 2,500 rpm) with a flat, diesel-like torque curve. Ninety-percent of peak power is available from 1,700 rpm to 5,000 rpm.
McCarthy and Merritt?s Mongo Racing will be the first teams to introduce a turbo six-cylinder gasoline engine pickup truck to the Baja 1000. In the past, only specially tuned, naturally aspirated V-8s and turbo-diesels competed in the Baja. That prompted SCORE, the race?s administrative body, to create a brand-new class to accommodate the new mills.
McCarthy and Merritt will technically race each other in the newly created Stock Engine Truck Class instead of Stock Full, which is for production trucks. In 2008, the purpose-built Ford Raptor R raced in Class 8, for two-wheel-drive full-size trucks.
Making McCarthy?s Baja run a bit more interesting is the newly installed EcoBoost ?hero engine? that?s powering his truck. The same engine first endured the equivalent of 150,000 harsh-user miles on the dynamometer, then was installed into a new 2011 F-150 to work as a log skidder in Oregon, towed a maximum trailer load at a high-speed NASCAR track and beat the competition in a towing exercise at Davis Dam. McCarthy?s truck is also the former Raptor R race chassis.
Mongo Racing?s off-the-shelf EcoBoost V-6 has Ford?s stock 6R80E transmission bolted to it. It took months of extensive preparation and transformation of a stock 2011 F-150 XL (similar to one you can find at your local Ford dealership) to turn it into a silver desert marauder.
We?ll be closely following both trucks in the race Nov. 17-21.
Quote from: 68_427 on November 04, 2010, 07:02:59 PM
God damn I wish that thing was street legal
How is it not?
Quote from: hotrodalex on November 17, 2010, 07:24:39 PM
How is it not?
The after market parts of the Ram Runner are apparently not street legal.
Quote from: 68_427 on November 17, 2010, 07:40:02 PM
The after market parts of the Ram Runner are apparently not street legal.
68_427: Again, solve that problem with a Raptor :thumbsup:
www.pickuptrucks.com posted updates from the SCORE Baja 1000 at random intervals, covering several vehicles. The EcoBoost F-150 ('Thought the EcoBoost V6 was to be dropped into the engine compartment of a Raptor, but it was actually dropped into the engine compartment of a racing F-150 that competed in last year's race) driven by Mike McCarthy for Mongo Racing was one of the vehicles covered by www.pickuptrucks.com's Mike Levine. This engine--the one that (A) spent 150,000 simulated miles on a dyno, (B) pulled logs in the Pacific Northwest for a logging firm, (C) towed 11,300 pounds for 24 hours around Homestead Raceway hitting over 95 MPH and averaging over 80 MPH for the 24 hours, and (D) won a truck pull contest against V8-engined competitors--finished its battery of challenges by powering Mike McCarthy's F-150 number 899 in the Stock Engined Truck Class of the 2010 Tecate SCORE Baja 1000. Here's the final update for number 899:
Nov. 20, 2010
3:17 a.m. (PST): Congrats to Ford! Mike McCarthy's 2011 Ford F-150 EcoBoost race truck (No. 899) with the torture-tested ?hero? engine finished one of the most grueling desert endurance races in the world ? the Tecate SCORE Baja 1000 ? in 38 hours and 20 minutes, after 1,061 miles.
The 3.5-liter EcoBoost V-6 engine used to power the race truck performed spectacularly in the harsh terrain and extreme temperature swings of the Baja California Peninsula. The truck endured hard accelerations ? often at full throttle ? and stiff decelerations across the mountains at temperatures that swung between freezing and 100 degrees Fahrenheit.
Though the EcoBoost engine entered the race with the equivalent of 10 years worth of rugged use, its inherent performance advantages ? twin turbochargers and direct fuel injection ? helped it complete the race.
"I?ve never seen anything like it in a stock engine ? especially one that?s been through what this one has,? said driver Mike McCarthy. ?This EcoBoost engine didn?t miss a beat. It took a beating and kept right on going. This is one tough engine."
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McCarthy pulled some other vehicles out of stucks along the way since his goal was finishing and not positioning. About pulling others out of stucks instead of going all-out for position, McCarthy replied "They would have done it for me."
And that's called sportsmanship. :clap:
More details of the EcoBoost V6s at the SCORE Baja 1000 from www.pickuptrucks.com:
The Inside Story of Ford's Baja 1000 EcoBoost Race Trucks
Posted by Mike Levine | November 22, 2010
Words and Photos by Matt Kartozian for PickupTrucks.com
Years of work developing the first twin-turbo direct-injection six-cylinder gas engine for a light-duty pickup truck paid off for Ford over the weekend. The company?s F-150 EcoBoost race truck completed the grueling Baja 1000 off-road race in Mexico in 38 hours, 20 minutes, running on an engine that?s seen the equivalent of a decade of hard work.
This year?s 1,061-mile Baja 1000 was a point-to-point race that started in Ensenada, Mexico, about an hour south of San Diego, and finished in La Paz, a mere 100 miles north of the resort town of Cabo San Lucas near the tip of the Baja Peninsula. Imagine racing from Los Angeles to Portland, Ore., off-road, non-stop over a route filled with rock climbs, silt beds, fan-laid booby traps and many other terrain features just waiting to destroy your vehicle. That?s a pretty good idea of the Baja 1000.
The race was the culmination of Ford?s marketing efforts to convince skeptical truck buyers that a six-cylinder engine can do the job of an eight with the same reliability and durability.
The engine that powered Ford's Eco Boost racer was pulled off the assembly line months ago for a torture test that began with the engine racking up 150,000 miles on a dyno in Dearborn, Mich. Then it was put into a truck and used as a line skidder at a Northwestern logging company, dragging logs around the job site. From there it went to Homestead racetrack in Florida to tow an 11,000-pound trailer with two racecars around the track for 24 hours. Finally, the engine was put into Mike McCarthy's F-150 race truck to tackle Baja.
Randy Merritt and the Mongo Racing team raced a second F-150 with another EcoBoost V-6.
SCORE International, which normally doesn?t allow turbo gas engines, gave the two an exception allowed them to race in their own class of Stock Engine Truck Class, but the pair would mix it up with their normal competition in Stock Full and Class 8 on the track.
SCORE CEO Sal Fish gave us his thoughts on the program before the race. "I'm really excited. It is going to bring a lot to the sport. We are opening the doors and taking a look at this to see what happens and then reevaluate them for 2011."
The two EcoBoost-powered teams faced problems and adversity throughout the race, but both got their trucks to the finish line. While planning for the race, the team predicted an average of 3 mpg, but as the race progressed, they found they were actually getting 8.5 mpg. That prompted the team to change pit and fuel strategy.
McCarthy ran clean all the way to Loreto at Race Mile 750, where his missed his fuel stop, and while it would not have been an issue, McCarthy got nervous and fueled the truck at a local Pemex gas station. The gas was dirty and clogged the fuel filter, forcing McCarthy?s team to stop and change it out and costing them time. Baja also took its toll on the tires, and the team had to change a few, which is normal during a long race like the 1000. Without any other problems, McCarthy finished the race in the dark of night in La Paz with a time of 38 hours, 29 minutes, 58 seconds, with an average speed of 27.57 mph.
McCarthy, who is a man of few words, said, "It was awesome. We had a good day."
Merritt and Tracy Rubio had a much longer day in their EcoBoost F-150 and watched the sun rise and set twice over the Pacific Ocean and the Sea of Cortez in a brand-new race truck with less than 50 test miles.
They started clean and passed all of the Stock Full trucks in the first three miles and passed seven other vehicles before Ojos Negros at Race Mile 40. The trouble started near San Felipe at Race Mile 180, where a hole in the back of the radiator took a few hours to repair. Things got worse when they broke a spindle near Bahia de Los Angeles at Race Mile 380. The spare parts were far away in a chase truck and by the time it was repaired, the team was down for five hours. Later in the race, the right front shock failed, and the only thing holding all the parts together was the spring on the coil over. They limped it with the bad shock over 300 miles, further slowing the duo.
In the closing hours of the race, they were caught in a booby trap built by local fans who dug a big hole and covered it with powder, Merritt said. The truck rolled on its side, damaging spindles, shocks and upper A-Arms. In the end, they crossed the finish line in La Paz but about 70 minutes past the 45-hour time limit required to be considered an official finisher.
Despite the problems, both drivers were big fans of the new EcoBoost V-6.
"The turbos were awesome," Rubio said at the finish. "We did not know what to expect, but it works surprisingly well. It?s a wide power band, so once you get there, you can be lugging it and get on the gas and with lots of power with less gear changing."
Merritt was equally pleased and plans to run the engine for the full Best in the Desert season in 2011.
"It was long. It was a real challenge," an exhausted Merritt said at the finish. "The truck is beat to hell ? it?s in bad shape." Speaking of the EcoBoost V-6, he said, "It has way more power than the V-8. It?s much faster.?
Four Wheeler Magazine's Pickup Truck of the Year is the 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor
Posted by Mike Levine | December 3, 2010
Our friends at Four Wheeler magazine have selected the 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor as their choice for Pickup Truck of the Year. The 411 horsepower, 6.2-liter V-8 Raptor beat two diesel-powered HD pickups for the top spot: The 2011 Ford Super Duty 6.7-liter Power Stroke Lariat FX4 and the 2011 Chevrolet 2500 Silverado Z/71 6.6-liter Duramax.
?The SVT Raptor is every four-wheel-drive enthusiast?s dream of what a factory pickup truck should be,? said Four Wheeler Editor Douglas McColloch. ?Straight off the showroom floor, the Raptor comes already equipped with all manner of premium performance parts that are designed for extreme off-pavement forays?be it rock crawling, mud bogging or desert racing. The Raptor undertakes these tasks without compromising the F-150 platform?s class-leading ride and handling characteristics on pavement. It inspires confidence in the dirt and delivers serenity on the street. All told, the Raptor 6.2 is a joy to drive, and a very deserving winner of our Pickup Truck of the Year competition."
Four Wheeler will publish the full results of the its PUTOTY competition in the March 2011 issue of Four Wheeler, on sale January 21, 2011.
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Come on, Chevy & Ram, where are your copies of another Ford product :(? We ain't got all decade! :rage:
From www.autoblog.com, an article that I also posted in cawimmer430's Dakar thread. It merits posting here, too:
Journalist Sue Mead, racer Darren Skilton become first U.S. team to win a class in Dakar Rally
by Zach Bowman (RSS feed) on Jan 17th 2011 at 5:01 PM
The Ford F-150 SVT Raptor is still proving that it can do whatever deed needs done, whenever it needs doing. Sue Mead and Darren Skilton managed to pilot a largely stock version of the desert-raiding pickup through all 12 stages of this year's Dakar rally. The team survived 16 days of some of the most brutal terrain on the South American continent and covered over 11,800 miles in the process. Their effort was enough to net the Raptor a 40th place finish over all and a first place finish in the OP class.
In fact, from what we hear, Mead and Skilton were the only contestants to even finish in the OP class, even with big names like Robbie Gordon gunning for the win.
That marks the first time that an American crew has ever managed to take a class win in the history of the Dakar Rally. The F-150 SVT Raptor that Mead and Skilton campaigned boasted the same 5.4-liter V8 that it rolled off the production line with, though a larger cooling system was fitted to handle the harsh temperatures of the course. Likewise, the pickup was equipped with a host of other race-capable bits including a new locker system for the differentials (ARB Air Lockers :wub:--Goooooooooo omiDude!), more robust shocks, springs and tires.
Overall, Volkswagen took the top three spots in the 2011 Dakar Rally. BMW filled out the remaining spots in the top five with its entries...
www.pickuptrucks.com adds these details:
Sue Mead's Raptor Finishes First in Class at Dakar Rally
Posted by Mike Levine | January 16, 2011
Late last night, we received a phone call from Buenos Aires, Argentina. Sue Mead, Darren Skilton and the team behind the FabSchool/General Tire Ford F-150 SVT Raptor piloted their truck to a first-place finish in the OP/2 racing class for autos (including light-duty trucks) competing in the 2011 Dakar Rally.
"The Dakar was brutal," said Mead. "[About] two-thirds [of the racers who started] didn't finish. We did. Darren and I will take home the OP/2 trophy. There were six racing in our class, including Robby Gordon and other folks from the U.S. We were the only one of the six that finished."
Mead, a freelance writer for PickupTrucks.com, is the first woman driver from either North or South America to compete in Dakar's auto class, though several women raced motorcycles. The Dakar was held Jan. 1-16 over a 5,903-mile circuit from Buenos Aires to the Atacama Desert in Chile.
Modifications to the FabSchool/General Tire Raptor (Truck No. 374) to prepare it for Dakar included an ARB locker :wub:, King Shocks at each corner and wheels from Walker Evans Racing. Inside, there are Cobra seats with Crow harnesses. Under the hood, the 5.4-liter V-8 Raptor is mostly in factory form except for a pair of Odyssey batteries and Royal Purple Racing oil.
Mead and Skilton worked the FabSchool Raptor from 126th place after the first stage to 40th place overall during the 15-day rally. Congrats!
Raptor in Plain Black Wrapper Invents Snownuts for the Chronically Insane
From www.pickuptrucks.com:
Here's the link for the excellent pics:
http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2011/01/quick-drive-2011-ford-f-150-svt-raptor-supercab-62-liter-v-8.html
Quick Drive: 2011 Ford F-150 SVT Raptor SuperCab 6.2-liter V-8
Posted by Mike Levine | January 31, 2011
The Ford F-150 SVT Raptor and roostertails go together like bacon and everything. Since it was introduced, we?ve kicked up dirt, mud and rocks with both the original 5.4-liter and new 6.2-liter V-8 versions, but we?ve never carved a Raptor through snow and ice, until now.
Several weeks ago, we headed to Detroit for the 2011 North American International Auto Show. With temperatures hovering in the teens and 20s and sporadic snow showers, the climate could hardly have been more different from our backyard stomping grounds in Southern California?s Mojave Desert.
After spending two days hunting relentlessly for truck news inside Detroit?s Cobo Hall Convention Center from before sunrise until after sunset, we needed a break.
Weather that looked cold and bleak outside while eating shrimp with supermodels ? really cold, soggy sandwiches and stale brownies in the company of grumpy, over-caffeinated journalists ? turned into a playground for us and our friends from Jalopnik to take a Raptor for a spin (actually, dozens) in the snow.
On our last day in Michigan, we exited downtown Detroit and piloted a 2011 Raptor SuperCab 6.2 to a lonely parking lot near a Ford plant on the outskirts of Detroit, where several inches of snow had fallen the night before. Only we couldn?t tell it was a parking lot as we stared out from the cockpit of our Tuxedo Black Raptor at acres of virgin white powder that covered the icy pavement beneath.
In past off-road excursions, we naturally shifted the Raptor into four-wheel drive for maximum traction and activated its unique ?off-road mode.?
Off-road mode changes the truck?s power delivery and shift points so it performs like a desert racer. Gears are held longer, and throttle response is linear throughout the power band instead of weighted toward the low end during normal driving.
This time, we deliberately ignored four-wheel drive. Instead, we took advantage of the parking lot?s wide-open space, emptiness and icy conditions and left the truck in two-wheel drive, so all 411 ponies from its 6.2-liter V-8 were sent to the rear wheels.
We didn?t stop with two-wheel drive. We also disengaged the Raptor?s stability, traction and rollover controls and changed the antilock brake calibrations to their mildest settings by pushing and holding the AdvanceTrac (sliding car) button on the dash for 5 seconds.
With the electronic nannies off, it was playtime. The 6.2 quickly revved high into the RPM range as the Raptor?s meaty LT315/70R17 BFGoodrich A/Ts tires sought out the least bit of friction to get the truck moving. Several times, the truck cut throttle at redline like it was on a dyno because its traction control system was sleeping and the ABS was comfortably numb.
We chucked and skidded the Raptor from one end of the lot to the other as we explored the Raptor?s winter boundaries. We made ice-glazed doughnuts so perfect that Krispy Kreme?s chefs would have had coronaries for their recipe, and we conjured up icy roostertails that floated around the truck as we drifted on the pavement?s slick, black ice like a crazed Zamboni machine re-imagined by Ed "Big Daddy" Roth. By the end of it, we were laughing and smiling as much as school kids sledding on a snow day.
Soon enough, though, we had to call it a day and head to the airport.
As much as we enjoyed playing with the Raptor in the snow and ice, we didn?t come close to exploring how it performs in true off-road conditions in low temperatures. We?re very curious to see how its Fox Racing long-travel suspension ? the heart of the Raptor ? performs as the thermometer drops. We expect that testing will come later this winter.
For now, we accomplished our mission to create icy roostertails. And we found out the Raptor also sizzles like bacon, even in the snow.
I see GMC has its own version of The Raptor in the works.
Why the hell would they leave it in 2WD to spin donuts? 4WD is so much more fun...
n00bs.
I had one of these in my rear-view mirror in traffic today. It is incredibly sinister-looking! Scared me just a little.
Quote from: gotta-qik-z28 on February 02, 2011, 02:04:13 PM
I see GMC has its own version of The Raptor in the works.
Monkey see. Monkey do.
I saw a new crew cab 6.2 truck at a local Ford dealer last night. Fuel economy was 11 city and 14 highway lol
Quote from: giant_mtb on February 03, 2011, 11:50:02 AM
Why the hell would they leave it in 2WD to spin donuts? 4WD is so much more fun...
Not in a truck.
Quote from: Tave on April 20, 2011, 07:17:32 AM
Not in a truck.
Yep you will pretty much just go in a big circle if you try to do doughnuts in a truck locked in 4wd
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on April 18, 2011, 10:43:25 AM
I saw a new crew cab 6.2 truck at a local Ford dealer last night. Fuel economy was 11 city and 14 highway lol
That's pretty much my 2005 Ram 1500 Hemi got.
Quote from: SVT666 on April 21, 2011, 10:34:24 AM
That's pretty much my 2005 Ram 1500 Hemi got.
I knew they were bad but didn't know they were that bad.
Quote from: Mustangfan2003 on April 21, 2011, 10:36:21 AM
I knew they were bad but didn't know they were that bad.
My Ram was rated at 13/17, but I never ever got 17 on the highway and I never ever got 13 in the city. More like 10/14.
DUDES! Good to have the time to pass thru the threads for a few short minutes! My personal upgrade has had me here, there, and everywhere. Stats: Yesterday, 5/16/2011, was 26 full circuits (up 130 stories and down 130 stories--which equals 3484 steps up and 3484 steps down) in 57 minutes 40 seconds--when I get that under 57:30 I'm going for 27 full circuits (which is averaging just over two steps up and two steps down per second for three thousand six hundred seconds).
On a poleless elliptical last week, I averaged 205--210 strides per minute on a 28 minute strenuous-light-strenuous intermittent course to burn 434 calories within 28 minutes. That was my first time on a poleless elliptical (I typically use pole ellipticals, which are always waaayy optimistic--just ask BlowCougs :tounge:) but I wanted a piece of that once Jerry said he burned 412 calories in 30 minutes on it. I had Jerry set it up just like the course he used to burn the 412, only I put in my weight and rounded my age down just a tad to 30 years old to make the machine push me harder. Jerry, at his weight, burned 412 calories at about 185 strides per minute but the Nethead here hadta average 205--210 strides per minute since we thirty-somethings are more muscle, sinew, and testosterone than pathetically old Jerry, age 53.
This was the same evening as the most recent nooner with the absolutely HAWT Personal Trainer who bashed my bones for 70 minutes on the company expense account.
Good shit, all of this!
Like a Boss 302, which even Road & Track journalists can flog into 1:39.5 laps at Laguna Seca, and turn 0-60 in 4.1 secs with ETs of 12.3 secs. 1.02 G on the skidpad and 74.0 MPH in the slalom--check out the article on pages 54 ff in the May R&T...'Probably online, too--I ain't got the time to check it out. In the same issue, a new GT350 takes a new Challenger SRT8 392 to school. It ain't no accident that Boss 302R Mustangs have won the last two Grand American Continental Tire Challenge races :praise:
And I gained a second grandchild last week to add to the delights!
Sooooo, I got places to go, things to do, and people to see--glad I could pass through for a few minutes I hope I'll get to pass through again in a month or so! Meanwhile, keep it between the lines!
The Nethead here