Report: U.S. government to own post-bankruptcy GM, forgive $15.4b in loans
05/20/2009, 9:58 AMBY DREW JOHNSON
General Motors will likely follow Chrysler?s outline for bankruptcy, meaning the ?good? parts of GM will be sold within 30-60 days to a new entity while the ?bad? GM set will remain in bankruptcy for years. However, whereas the new purchasing entity for Chrysler will be Fiat-led, a new report indicates the United States government will take the lead in the new GM.
In order to spend just 30-60 days in bankruptcy, GM needs a purchasing agent on the other side. For Chrysler that agent will be Fiat, but GM has no such plan in place with another automaker. Instead, the U.S. government will be forced to step up to the plate and purchase the new GM.
According to a Reuters sources, the government will at least initially own the new company that in turn owns GM. The source didn?t reveal how much the deal will be worth, but the U.S. government will undoubtedly have a larger share of GM than the 50 percent stake discussed earlier this year.
Additionally, the government?s ownership will likely see GM skipping out on the repayment of its $15.4 billion emergency loan. The government will also extend GM a new line of credit.
With bankruptcy seeming like the only outcome for GM, it looks like the Detroit automaker will be government-owned ? and debt free ? by August.
Who in their right mind would buy a car from a nationalized automaker?
Quote from: GoCougs on May 20, 2009, 09:44:05 AM
Who in their right mind would buy a car from a nationalized automaker?
British Leyland all over again, only on this side of the Atlantic now.
Government Motors?
I think we all know who will be the eventual owner of GM. :mask:
GM will build nothing but hybrids and electrics. GM should change their name to BAM (Bankrupt Again Motors).
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 10:52:41 AM
GM will build nothing but hybrids and electrics. GM should change their name to BAM (Bankrupt Again Motors).
Nope, Ugo. Union's Gift from Obama.
Quote from: Cobra93 on May 20, 2009, 10:47:18 AM
I think we all know who will be the eventual owner of GM. :mask:
Same ultimate fate as the British Leylands? :mask:
Why do I believe that the holding company will be the Bank of America(n Government)
(http://blog.al.com/stantis/2009/04/Stantis-GovernmentMotors-RGB.jpg)
(http://i40.tinypic.com/30s8r5x.jpg)
well, I guess I should be thankful if they don't end up scrapping all the CTS-V's like they did the EV1's...
...but then again, who knows what kind of disgustingly sick and heinous revenge the dirty hippies have planned against GM
Say goodbye to Corvettes, the Camaro and all performance type cars.
Great, the leftist dream of following in Europe's footsteps is coming true one step at a time. Too bad they forgot to read the part of history where British Leyland still died anyway, along with all the related jobs, but maybe I expect too much.
Quote from: NomisR on May 20, 2009, 11:26:11 AM
Say goodbye to Corvettes, the Camaro and all performance type cars.
Hopefully they become so cheap to buy used, that I can buy two: one to enjoy on the road, and one to keep in storage as a reminder of better times. And to sell for $$$ in a future auction.
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 20, 2009, 11:41:22 AM
Hopefully they become so cheap to buy used, that I can buy two: one to enjoy on the road, and one to keep in storage as a reminder of better times. And to sell for $$$ in a future auction.
They'll be collector's items since they won't exist anymore. They won't be cheap.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 11:42:13 AM
They'll be collector's items since they won't exist anymore. They won't be cheap.
Exactly. The new Camaro, especially, considering that they're not being manufactured in huge numbers yet.
Quote from: Cobra93 on May 20, 2009, 10:47:18 AM
I think we all know who will be the eventual owner of GM. :mask:
The Chinese? :huh:
Is there any way I can not pay the GM portion of my federal taxes? I wanted nothing to do with that.
Goodbye to the Suburban, you've made the company too much money!
Why does government ownership of GM have to be a bad thing? Renault produced some pretty spectacular high performance cars under French government ownership.
Renault 5 Turbo, anyone?
(http://membres.lycos.fr/renault5turbo/grenade/renault5turbo1.jpg)
Let's stop being negative and try to look on the bright side of things for a change. Maybe, just MAYBE, government ownership of GM will give the company the stability it needs to reinvent itself into a leaner, meaner, more competitive company? It's certainly a better outcome than allowing GM to fall into the abyss, which is what would happen without Federal intervention. Once back on it's feet, the New GM could then be privatised. A revitalised GM would be beneficial to the American economy and GDP.
The choice is simple: A fresh start under government ownership and, hopefully, a better future or no future at all. The answer is a no-brainer.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
http://i184.photobucket.com/albums/x253/calfan5/middle-finger-of-the-apocalypse.jpg
Bright side???
Nationalization of Detroit is a catastrophe.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 20, 2009, 02:54:10 PM
Bright side???
Nationalization of Detroit is a catastrophe.
Letting what's left of America's manufacturing sector die is an even bigger catastrophe.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Quote from: Madman on May 20, 2009, 03:08:59 PM
Letting what's left of America's manufacturing sector die is an even bigger catastrophe.
If the American manufacturing sector cannot sustain itself, then it's unfit to live. That's capitalism. It's supposed to be a Darwinian process where the smarter and more agile company thrives by providing products the people want at competetive prices. The government propping up unproductive companies will only make the problem worse, encouraging American companies to continue uncompetetive business practices. If we have any hope of keeping up with up-and-coming international competetors like China, then we'd better re-learn how to do business effectively. That means we have to get rid of the dead wood.
Let's face it: Outside of the automotive industry, Detroit is a shithole anyway.
Quote from: bing_oh on May 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
If the American manufacturing sector cannot sustain itself, then it's unfit to live. That's capitalism. It's supposed to be a Darwinian process where the smarter and more agile company thrives by providing products the people want at competetive prices. The government propping up unproductive companies will only make the problem worse, encouraging American companies to continue uncompetetive business practices. If we have any hope of keeping up with up-and-coming international competetors like China, then we'd better re-learn how to do business effectively. That means we have to get rid of the dead wood.
If we protected out markets the way China protects its markets, American industry wouldn't need any help. The fallacy of the "free market" is why American manufacturing is on its knees. Politicians on both side of the aisle have sold us out to China. Let's impose the sort of restrictions on Chinese goods that China imposes on American goods and see how quickly America's manufacturing sector recovers.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2009, 03:20:37 PM
Let's face it: Outside of the automotive industry, Detroit is a shithole anyway.
Even in the automotive industry it's a shit hole.
Quote from: Madman on May 20, 2009, 03:49:43 PM
If we protected out markets the way China protects its markets, American industry wouldn't need any help. The fallacy of the "free market" is why American manufacturing is on its knees. Politicians on both side of the aisle have sold us out to China. Let's impose the sort of restrictions on Chinese goods that China imposes on American goods and see how quickly America's manufacturing sector recovers.
Sorry, I'm not much for socialism in my economy.
Quote from: bing_oh on May 20, 2009, 03:19:20 PM
If the American manufacturing sector cannot sustain itself, then it's unfit to live. That's capitalism. It's supposed to be a Darwinian process where the smarter and more agile company thrives by providing products the people want at competetive prices. The government propping up unproductive companies will only make the problem worse, encouraging American companies to continue uncompetetive business practices. If we have any hope of keeping up with up-and-coming international competetors like China, then we'd better re-learn how to do business effectively. That means we have to get rid of the dead wood.
:clap:
Quote from: Madman on May 20, 2009, 03:49:43 PM
If we protected out markets the way China protects its markets, American industry wouldn't need any help. The fallacy of the "free market" is why American manufacturing is on its knees. Politicians on both side of the aisle have sold us out to China. Let's impose the sort of restrictions on Chinese goods that China imposes on American goods and see how quickly America's manufacturing sector recovers.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
That's not free. I don't want ANY restrictions. The better man wins. That's how it goes.
When you regulate things, you never get a better product.
Hello, My name is Regis J. Larkin Jr. and I am a sales manager with Ramsey Chrysler Dodge and Jeep. I would like to take the time to tell you why you should buy your next domestic product from us. Contrary to all the negative propaganda in the media let me be the one to assure you we are going nowhere. The fact alone that the PRESIDENT of these UNITED STATES BECAME DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN OUR RESTRUCTURING SHOULD SAY A LOT. THINK ABOUT THAT. THEY ARE SO SURE ABOUT US AND OUR PRODUCT THEY ARE GUARANTEEING OUR LIFE TIME WARRANTIES. Thats pretty aggressive don?t you think. In the coming weeks a lot of smaller dealers will be closing. However RAMSEY CHRYSLER DODGE AND JEEP will be going nowhere. In fact we are in the process of redoing our showroom for your comfort and convenience. During times like these we must stand together AS AMERICANS.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/letter-from-a-hungry-chrysler-dodge-jeep-dealer/#more-315770
Quote from: hotrodalex on May 20, 2009, 05:05:19 PM
:clap:
That's not free. I don't want ANY restrictions. The better man wins. That's how it goes.
When you regulate things, you never get a better product.
GoCougs and you are both subscribe to the same ideology. The problem is that just like Communism, your ideology only works in theory. When you factor in the human element, it will never work in practice.
Quote from: Laconian on May 20, 2009, 05:10:43 PM
Hello, My name is Regis J. Larkin Jr. and I am a sales manager with Ramsey Chrysler Dodge and Jeep. I would like to take the time to tell you why you should buy your next domestic product from us. Contrary to all the negative propaganda in the media let me be the one to assure you we are going nowhere. The fact alone that the PRESIDENT of these UNITED STATES BECAME DIRECTLY INVOLVED IN OUR RESTRUCTURING SHOULD SAY A LOT. THINK ABOUT THAT. THEY ARE SO SURE ABOUT US AND OUR PRODUCT THEY ARE GUARANTEEING OUR LIFE TIME WARRANTIES. Thats pretty aggressive don’t you think. In the coming weeks a lot of smaller dealers will be closing. However RAMSEY CHRYSLER DODGE AND JEEP will be going nowhere. In fact we are in the process of redoing our showroom for your comfort and convenience. During times like these we must stand together AS AMERICANS.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/letter-from-a-hungry-chrysler-dodge-jeep-dealer/#more-315770
Dude, you skipped the best part:
QuoteOur product is just as strong and reliable as any import product. As an American if your in the market for any type of vehicle you owe it to your self and our GREAT COUNTRY to stop in and look at our great products. ONLY WE CAN HELP OURSELVES TO GET OUT OF THESE FINANCIALLY TRYING TIMES AND BUY BUYING AMERICAN CARS YOUR DOING YOUR PART. I hope this letter finds you and your loved ones well. If you have any questions or concerns feel free to contact me anytime.. From one proud American to another, Thank You, Regis J. Larkin Jr. Sales Manager 201-818-9600 b 973-769-7694 cjohnson@ramseycars.com
Gotta love the misuse of the words "buy" and "your" :clap: This, along with the strong whiff of domestic fanboi attitude, is totally making me glad this dealer is sticking around :rolleyes:
I hope my dealer never sends me a letter like this
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 20, 2009, 05:29:33 PM
Dude, you skipped the best part:
Gotta love the misuse of the words "buy" and "your" :clap: This, along with the strong whiff of domestic fanboi attitude, is totally making me glad this dealer is sticking around :rolleyes:
I hope my dealer never sends me a letter like this
By being a dealer he has to be a fanboi if he believes it or not. What do you want him to say? "Our products suck, but look on the bright side, you'll never have to pay for the repairs because our government will honour the lifetime warranty".
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 05:27:02 PM
GoCougs and you are both subscribe to the same ideology. The problem is that just like Communism, your ideology only works in theory. When you factor in the human element, it will never work in practice.
Uh, no. A pure capitalistic system has no fallacies. The fallacies lie in the people who use it -- not the system itself.
Communism is all about government involvement whereas capitalism is about independent rule. The only problem capitalism faces is the incongruencies on the world stage because market manipulation and our own manipulation of a system that should have never been tampered with in the first place.
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2009, 05:39:59 PM
Uh, no. A pure capitalistic system has no fallacies. The fallacies lie in the people who use it -- not the system itself.
Communism is all about government involvement whereas capitalism is about independent rule. The only problem capitalism faces is the incongruencies on the world stage because market manipulation and our own manipulation of a system that should have never been tampered with in the first place.
So you are confirming that it's perfect in theory, but not in practice? Thank you.
That's because no one really practices it...at all. So no.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 05:27:02 PM
GoCougs and you are both subscribe to the same ideology. The problem is that just like Communism, your ideology only works in theory. When you factor in the human element, it will never work in practice.
It will never work in practice because many if not most people will vote for a free lunch if/when given the chance.
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2009, 05:42:04 PM
That's because no one really practices it...at all. So no.
Just like no one really practiced Communism. So yes.
True Capitalism is a theory and that's all it will ever be because it is impossible for it to actually work in the real world.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 20, 2009, 05:43:18 PM
It will never work in practice because many if not most people will vote for a free lunch if/when given the chance.
Which is the human element I speak of.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 05:43:38 PM
Just like no one really practiced Communism. So yes.
True Capitalism is a theory and that's all it will ever be because it is impossible for it to actually work in the real world.
Bullshit.
Quote from: GoCougs on May 20, 2009, 05:43:18 PM
It will never work in practice because many if not most people will vote for a free lunch if/when given the chance.
Am I agreeing with Cougs? Yes, I am.
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2009, 05:47:04 PM
Bullshit.
Am I agreeing with Cougs? Yes, I am.
How can you call my statement bullshit and then agree with Cougs who is basically saying the same damn thing.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 05:50:37 PM
How can you call my statement bullshit and then agree with Cougs who is basically saying the same damn thing.
I think people are mistaken socialism practiced by the Communist parties as actual communism.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 20, 2009, 05:50:37 PM
How can you call my statement bullshit and then agree with Cougs who is basically saying the same damn thing.
You say it couldn't work in practice where he's saying that the opportunity to practice it will never arise because of weak-minded fools who don't think it will work, nor do they want to give it a chance.
It's a vicious circle. But to say it can't work is simply wrong.
Quote from: the Teuton on May 20, 2009, 05:58:01 PM
You say it couldn't work in practice where he's saying that the opportunity to practice it will never arise because of weak-minded fools who don't think it will work, nor do they want to give it a chance.
It's a vicious circle. But to say it can't work is simply wrong.
Actually it's not wrong. It can't work in practice BECAUSE of the human element. We're saying the same fucking thing.
Quote from: HEMI666 on May 21, 2009, 12:02:50 AM
We're saying the same fucking thing.
Except that I'm right and you're wrong. :devil:
:popcorn:
Goodbye GM. :frown:
Concidently the battery gave out on my Z06, maybe it's her way of mourning the loss of her home.
Quote from: 565 on May 21, 2009, 12:23:53 AM
Goodbye GM. :frown:
Concidently the battery gave out on my Z06, maybe it's her way of mourning the loss of her home.
How much did the replacement cost?
The battery on my car gave out several months ago, and it was replaced under warranty, but according to the dealer, these things supposedly retail for $250 :nutty:
...a $250 car battery? Shit, what kind of batteries are you using? One of those damn "red top" ones? :lol:
Quote from: Madman on May 20, 2009, 03:08:59 PM
Letting what's left of America's manufacturing sector die is an even bigger catastrophe.
Cheers,
Madman of the People
Haha...and there is the great fallacy of this entire catastrophe...government comes and saves the day. But you haven't really thought it through, have you. Firstly, this gives the unions (who have made local politicians their bitches for YEARS) even more power. It's laughable that those fucktards have power, and is even more hysterical that they have more of it now...but alas, no one seems to care that the biggest morons have more control than ever.
Secondly, we as a public now have more confidence that when we screw up, someone will be there to save our asses, and let us continue down the same path of wanton stupidity.
Oh, thirdly, take a look at Britian's similar nationalization efforts of the 60's, 70's, and 80's. The REEKED of failure. This is EXACTLY what chairman Obama is looking to do. Face it, the government is incapable of handling this, and we are only padding our injuries, as the hole we dig gets deeper and deeper. We didn't fuck up, and therefore we wont work to solve the problem.
:facepalm:
Obama has already fucked up more than Bush could have hoped to do in 4 terms.
Quote from: Vinsanity on May 21, 2009, 10:29:09 AM
How much did the replacement cost?
The battery on my car gave out several months ago, and it was replaced under warranty, but according to the dealer, these things supposedly retail for $250 :nutty:
Didn't go get one yet. Supposedly the Z06 uses a special lighter battery from the normal C5 so I expect to be completely raped by the dealer (out of warranty, 2002 car).
Quote from: GoCougs on May 20, 2009, 05:43:18 PM
It will never work in practice because many if not most people will vote for a free lunch if/when given the chance.
Yup. They say they are capitalists, but don't want to do the work when the going gets tough. During those times, they want a free lunch.
Quote from: NomisR on May 20, 2009, 10:19:50 AM
British Leyland all over again, only on this side of the Atlantic now.
There are only good things to come from this:
(http://www.aronline.co.uk/images/princess_07.jpg)
(http://www.motorbase.com/pictures/contributions/20000315/std_1971_Morris_Marina.jpg)
(http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_CTt8kqk-aFI/SIu2CY_m0oI/AAAAAAAAAW4/k-MBXAZ_8IE/s320/Quartic%2Bwheel.jpg)
(http://www.fawltytowersrevisited.com/carthrash.jpg)
I completely agree with Submariner.