I got H rated tires just yesterday and had them put in the back thinking the front with the Z rated tires would make the car generally neutral. Well I was wrong.
Went around a roundabout a little too fast, the rear came around and luckily (somewhat) enough the corner of the curb only hit the rear wheel so the body has no damage at all. But now the rear wheel is not straight. I guess I'm getting new control arms for the rear.
Frig I should've just coughed up a bit more for better tires up front and put the not as good Z rated tires in the rear...
From what I've searched so far, it seems like most people just have to change the rear control arm in cases like this. I guess I'll check the sway bar to see if it got damaged as well but HOPEFULLY it's only the CA...
My Focus won't take a cloverleaf interchange in wet weather without trying to spin out. (Hasn't hit anything yet though!) The tires appeared to be new when I got it, but they're evidently not great tires.
I ran much grippier tires at the front of my Passat than the rear for three years. Got the back end out dozens of times.
Never crashed.
You may not have bent anything... See if it can be adjusted first. Take it to a good alignment place.
Quote from: Raza on June 22, 2009, 08:59:58 PM
I ran much grippier tires at the front of my Passat than the rear for three years. Got the back end out dozens of times.
Never crashed.
you're either lucky as shit or you do it in parking lots...
Quote from: R-inge on June 22, 2009, 09:01:08 PM
You may not have bent anything... See if it can be adjusted first. Take it to a good alignment place.
Maybe just a bent wheel, if anything. I bent a wheel once, everything else was okay.
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 22, 2009, 08:48:15 PM
I got H rated tires just yesterday and had them put in the back thinking the front with the Z rated tires would make the car generally neutral. Well I was wrong.
Went around a roundabout a little too fast, the rear came around and luckily (somewhat) enough the corner of the curb only hit the rear wheel so the body has no damage at all. But now the rear wheel is not straight. I guess I'm getting new control arms for the rear.
Frig I should've just coughed up a bit more for better tires up front and put the not as good Z rated tires in the rear...
From what I've searched so far, it seems like most people just have to change the rear control arm in cases like this. I guess I'll check the sway bar to see if it got damaged as well but HOPEFULLY it's only the CA...
Speed rating doesn't mean crap. Learn how to drive. :evildude:
Next time the rear end starts to come around, throttle out of it. Same goes for you, Ifcar.
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 22, 2009, 09:01:52 PM
you're either lucky as shit very good or you do it in parking lots fucking great...
Somewhere in the middle.
Once you learn to drive, it's really quite easy.
+1 to getting an alignment first.
but the thing is there seems to be some play in the rear wheel. Might be bushings done as well.
I'm gonna have it aligned ASAP (maybe tmr) and see how that goes
Quote from: NACar on June 22, 2009, 09:04:06 PM
Speed rating doesn't mean crap. Learn how to drive. :evildude:
Next time the rear end starts to come around, throttle out of it. Same goes for you, Ifcar.
I've been able to correct with just some steering. You can't really accelerate while you're still in the tight part of the cloverleaf, not in wet weather.
Quote from: ifcar on June 22, 2009, 08:58:15 PM
My Focus won't take a cloverleaf interchange in wet weather without trying to spin out. (Hasn't hit anything yet though!) The tires appeared to be new when I got it, but they're evidently not great tires.
That's not right. I can take some entrance ramps flat out. :evildude:
I've never had oversteer in my car without the handbrake, but it loves to understeer. The rear end has a tendency to side-step when it hits a bump in a high speed turn, but that's just a normal Focus quirk.
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 22, 2009, 09:10:18 PM
but the thing is there seems to be some play in the rear wheel. Might be bushings done as well.
I'm gonna have it aligned ASAP (maybe tmr) and see how that goes
Loose? Yikes. You broke something then.
Quote from: R-inge on June 22, 2009, 09:25:00 PM
Loose? Yikes. You broke something then.
i wouldn't say loose...
well when i kick the left rear wheel there's no play at all. but with the right one there's ever so much play and I think it's gonna be something that needs to be replaced...
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 22, 2009, 09:22:05 PM
That's not right. I can take some entrance ramps flat out. :evildude:
Big deal. I get better gas mileage than you do. I just need to be more careful when it rains.
Quote from: ifcar on June 22, 2009, 09:28:54 PM
Big deal. I get better gas mileage than you do. I just need to be more careful when it rains.
That wasn't the point. Read my post. Your car should not be oversteering.
Quote from: 280Z Turbo on June 22, 2009, 09:32:45 PM
That wasn't the point. Read my post. Your car should not be oversteering.
Oh, I know.
The better tires should be on the back.
Quote from: TBR on June 22, 2009, 10:19:25 PM
The better tires should be on the back.
but if they were in the back, i would've massively understeered into the curb. that would've been fucking ugly...
Quote from: TBR on June 22, 2009, 10:19:25 PM
The better tires should be on the back.
That's no fun.
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 22, 2009, 10:35:40 PM
but if they were in the back, i would've massively understeered into the curb. that would've been fucking ugly...
Drive slower...
Reset the playstation.
Quote from: The Pirate on June 22, 2009, 09:02:09 PM
Maybe just a bent wheel, if anything. I bent a wheel once, everything else was okay.
I bent my left right and rear axle a few years ago having too much fun in the snow. The alignment shop got me a new wheel and put a shim on the axle. Feels fine now.
Isn't it sort of silly to put the stickier compounds on your non-drive wheels?
Quote from: Tave on June 23, 2009, 07:51:40 AM
Isn't it sort of silly to put the stickier compounds on your non-drive wheels?
For "safety", it makes sense. It's generally accepted that understeer is safer than oversteer. Better to crash on your side of the road, perhaps?
Tire manufacturers recommend putting your best tires on the back of all vehicles to avoid oversteer as oversteer is harder to control than udersteer, especially in wet or snowy conditions.
That can have its faults; typically people wait too long to rotate tires, at which point your front axle is 2-3/32" below the rears. I still rotate them in that case, putting the better ones on front so the tire set lasts as long as possible.
Quote from: Raza on June 23, 2009, 08:04:30 AM
For "safety", it makes sense. It's generally accepted that understeer is safer than oversteer. Better to crash on your side of the road, perhaps?
I think understeer is just more predictable and tends to not occur as rapidly.
It's easier for most people to correct understeer, as it can be fixed with a gentle tap on the brakes in most cases. Oversteer usually requires more precise countersteering and throttle control.
Oversteer is more fun. :lol:
Quote from: Raza on June 23, 2009, 06:49:58 AM
Fixed.
I figure it's easier to teach him to drive slower vs better. :lol:
:facepalm: You're an idiot.
This might be right up there with CJ crashing the Volvo because of he sneezed.
Quote from: TBR on June 23, 2009, 01:24:20 PM
I think understeer is just more predictable and tends to not occur as rapidly.
I don't know about predictable... I think it has more to do with the fact that most people instinctively let off the gas at the beginning of any slide. I know I did this the first time I drove around in winter. I still recall yanking the ebrake the first time on a snowy road and almost doing a 180 as I let off the gas. Figured it out pretty quick after that one.
Quote from: MrH on June 23, 2009, 08:21:25 PM
:facepalm: You're an idiot.
This might be right up there with CJ crashing the Volvo because of he sneezed.
Eh, we all do dumb things. I once got lost at Newark airport and drove square over a curb and ended up with two flat tires in the middle of a grass median. That was a fun night waiting for the AAA tow truck.
Hope you get that straightened out, Eddie.
i probably wont be able to get under the car at least until thursday. Hopefully take a peek thursday, see what I need to replace, head over to the junkyard thurs/fri and be good to go for the weekend
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 23, 2009, 02:03:01 PM
I figure it's easier to teach him to drive slower vs better. :lol:
The more difficult the task, the more satisfying the re....fuck it, you're right.
Ed, drive at 40kph, and no more.
Quote from: TBR on June 23, 2009, 01:24:20 PM
I think understeer is just more predictable and tends to not occur as rapidly.
Well, you're right in a driver's ed kind of way. Maybe it's because I started on RWD cars, but I find oversteer (especially in the snow) to be easier to handle.
Quote from: Raza on June 24, 2009, 10:02:00 AM
Well, you're right in a driver's ed kind of way. Maybe it's because I started on RWD cars, but I find oversteer (especially in the snow) to be easier to handle.
Same here. Of course I started out in RWD cars as well.
And the only oversteer I have experienced was in a long wheel base F-250 (other than just a smidge once in the Prelude).
Quote from: TBR on June 24, 2009, 03:07:55 PM
And the only oversteer I have experienced was in a long wheel base F-250 (other than just a smidge once in the Prelude).
That could be hair-raising.
I got oversteer today. :lol:
Quote from: Raza link=topic=19028.msg1093490#msg1093490 date=1245878236
That could be hair-raising.
I got oversteer today. :lol:
Wha? How?
Oh, you mean oversteer while walking, not in your car....right? :lol:
Quote from: Minpin on June 24, 2009, 04:58:57 PM
Wha? How?
Oh, you mean oversteer while walking, not in your car....right? :lol:
Hehe...
See, when you drive a fun FWD car, you can get oversteer. Have you never watched Top Gear?
:lol:
Quote from: Raza link=topic=19028.msg1093651#msg1093651 date=1245884722
Hehe...
See, when you drive a fun FWD car, you can get oversteer. Have you never watched Top Gear?
:lol:
I have no idea on the stats, but your car can't be THAT much quicker than mine...
Quote from: Minpin on June 24, 2009, 05:31:11 PM
I have no idea on the stats, but your car can't be THAT much quicker than mine...
wut do you drive again?
tC.
Quote from: Raza on June 24, 2009, 03:17:16 PM
That could be hair-raising.
I got oversteer today. :lol:
In rain the back steps out if you even think about accelerating hard. I haven't gotten anything other than power oversteer, I don't have enough balls to try to corner quickly in a truck that big.
Quote from: Minpin on June 24, 2009, 05:31:11 PM
I have no idea on the stats, but your car can't be THAT much quicker than mine...
A Jetta Wolfsburg vs. an automatic Scion tC? My car weighs 200 pounds more, but also has 40 more horsepower and 43 more pound feet of torque. A GTI 18s and DSG can hit 60 in 6 seconds flat. I think 6.5 is a reasonable estimate for my car (magazine style, not real roads), and it has great point-to-point midrange (peak torque from 1800 to 5000), and the MkV chassis is pretty easy to oversteer.
Oh, in the Quickest Cars comparison (one of the ones where a GTI got 6 seconds), the Scion tC managed 7.4 seconds to 60 with a manual. About a second slower than my estimate. Quarter miles of the GTI and tC are similarly a second apart.
So yes, my car is
that much quicker than yours. :lol:
Quote from: TBR on June 24, 2009, 05:55:13 PM
In rain the back steps out if you even think about accelerating hard. I haven't gotten anything other than power oversteer, I don't have enough balls to try to corner quickly in a truck that big.
Yeah, I wouldn't mess around in big trucks either.
Quote from: Raza link=topic=19028.msg1093934#msg1093934 date=1245894204
A Jetta Wolfsburg vs. an automatic Scion tC? My car weighs 200 pounds more, but also has 40 more horsepower and 43 more pound feet of torque. A GTI 18s and DSG can hit 60 in 6 seconds flat. I think 6.5 is a reasonable estimate for my car (magazine style, not real roads), and it has great point-to-point midrange (peak torque from 1800 to 5000), and the MkV chassis is pretty easy to oversteer.
Oh, in the Quickest Cars comparison (one of the ones where a GTI got 6 seconds), the Scion tC managed 7.4 seconds to 60 with a manual. About a second slower than my estimate. Quarter miles of the GTI and tC are similarly a second apart.
So yes, my car is that much quicker than yours. :lol:
Your car is more comparable to the GLI than the GTI. The GLI according to vw.com is 7.2 for a manual.
http://www.vw.com/gli/completespecs/en/us/#engineering
Quote from: Minpin on June 24, 2009, 07:52:24 PM
Your car is more comparable to the GLI than the GTI. The GLI according to vw.com is 7.2 for a manual.
http://www.vw.com/gli/completespecs/en/us/#engineering
Conservative estimates on manufacturer sites are common. My car also weighs less than a GLI (it's right in the middle of the GTI and GLI weight-wise).
How can two hundred pounds make the GLI 1.2 seconds slower than the GTI to 60?
Anyway, I accounted for the better tires and DSG. I added half a second. But yes, I've seen anywhere from 6.4-7.2 on GLI tests.
EDIT: VW also quotes 7.2 seconds for the GTI. So how come Car and Driver and Motor Trend both got 6.0?
Quote from: Raza link=topic=19028.msg1093944#msg1093944 date=1245894949
Conservative estimates on manufacturer sites are common. My car also weighs less than a GLI (it's right in the middle of the GTI and GLI weight-wise).
How can two hundred pounds make the GLI 1.2 seconds slower than the GTI to 60?
Anyway, I accounted for the better tires and DSG. I added half a second. But yes, I've seen anywhere from 6.4-7.2 on GLI tests.
EDIT: VW also quotes 7.2 seconds for the GTI. So how come Car and Driver and Motor Trend both got 6.0?
I can't tell you. My point is though is that while your car is faster, it isn't that much faster/powerful you're getting oversteer on it. :lol:
Quote from: Minpin on June 24, 2009, 07:58:20 PM
I can't tell you. My point is though is that while your car is faster, it isn't that much faster/powerful you're getting oversteer on it. :lol:
You know you don't get oversteer in a straight line, right? I could get oversteer in my Passat, which was significantly slower than my Jetta. And you can get oversteer in a 205 GTi, which is slower still.
And it's lift off oversteer, which has nothing to do with power. It's a FWD car, I couldn't power oversteer even if I had 500bhp :nutty:
Left-foot brake :praise:
Damn, I have not engaged in such antics for quite a while now. Neither the Swift, nor the Rodeo are willing partners.
Left-foot braking doesn't jive well with ABS.
:(
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 24, 2009, 09:15:07 PM
Left-foot braking doesn't jive well with ABS.
:(
Disable ABS. :huh:
Quote from: hotrodalex on June 24, 2009, 09:17:27 PM
Disable ABS. :huh:
Mmmm...I suppose that would be as simple as a quick pull of the fuse.
:devil:
Quote from: giant_mtb on June 25, 2009, 08:20:50 AM
Mmmm...I suppose that would be as simple as a quick pull of the fuse.
:devil:
how else would you disable it?
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 25, 2009, 08:57:57 AM
how else would you disable it?
Disconnect pretty much any ABS component, fuse, connector, etc and you disable the ABS.
Cut the brake lines, and you disable the ABS. :huh:
Quote from: NACar on June 25, 2009, 06:27:06 PM
Cut the brake lines, and you disable the ABS. :huh:
:hesaid:
:lol:
Quote from: NACar on June 25, 2009, 06:27:06 PM
Cut the brake lines, and you disable the ABS. :huh:
Um... not quite what I was shooting for.
My point was that by disconnecting anything having to do with ABS operation it causes a fault code to set, and every time a fault code is set as current it disables the ABS system.
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 22, 2009, 10:35:40 PM
but if they were in the back, i would've massively understeered into the curb. that would've been fucking ugly...
May b u should slow down
I always keep the shitty tires in the front. I'm scared of how my car will handle when I get equally good tires on the front. Car feels neutral but gets reined in by the awful front tires and shot front suspension bushings.
Quote from: sportyaccordy on June 26, 2009, 01:43:42 PM
May b u should slow down
I always keep the shitty tires in the front. I'm scared of how my car will handle when I get equally good tires on the front. Car feels neutral but gets reined in by the awful front tires and shot front suspension bushings.
What's up with the mismatched wheels on yo car?
Here's an idea for all you cats with mismatched tires... rotate your frakkin' tires every couple of oil changes, and replace them in sets of four. Best way to extend the life of your tires and always maintain the same handling bias that your car was designed with.
Quote from: R-inge on June 26, 2009, 02:32:10 PM
Here's an idea for all you cats with mismatched tires... rotate your frakkin' tires every couple of oil changes, and replace them in sets of four. Best way to extend the life of your tires and always maintain the same handling bias that your car was designed with.
What if I didn't like the handling bias my car came with?
Speaking of which, my tires have about 40K on them now and I've only rotated them once (at around 15K miles). I should probably do that on my next oil change. Although I checked the tread depth not too long ago and the fronts were within a 32nd of the rears (all of them had ~9/32nds still) and there's no sign of cupping or other weird wear.
Quote from: MX793 on June 26, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
What if I didn't like the handling bias my car came with?
Speaking of which, my tires have about 40K on them now and I've only rotated them once (at around 15K miles). I should probably do that on my next oil change. Although I checked the tread depth not too long ago and the fronts were within a 32nd of the rears (all of them had ~9/32nds still) and there's no sign of cupping or other weird wear.
Wow, 40k and only 1/32" variation between axles? I'm impressed... are those the Fuzions I think I remember you talking about at some point?
As far as tuning your car's handling balance with mismatched tires... there are better ways to do it I think.
That said, folks with different size tires front and rear have no choice really.
Quote from: R-inge on June 26, 2009, 03:40:48 PM
Wow, 40k and only 1/32" variation between axles? I'm impressed... are those the Fuzions I think I remember you talking about at some point?
As far as tuning your car's handling balance with mismatched tires... there are better ways to do it I think.
That said, folks with different size tires front and rear have no choice really.
Yeah, these are the Fuzions. Noisy, but they do wear well.
Quote from: MX793 on June 26, 2009, 03:38:30 PM
What if I didn't like the handling bias my car came with?
Speaking of which, my tires have about 40K on them now and I've only rotated them once (at around 15K miles). I should probably do that on my next oil change. Although I checked the tread depth not too long ago and the fronts were within a 32nd of the rears (all of them had ~9/32nds still) and there's no sign of cupping or other weird wear.
40K...miles? One a set of tires?
14K for me and they're already thinking about throwing in the towel.
Quote from: Raza on June 26, 2009, 04:52:03 PM
40K...miles? One a set of tires?
14K for me and they're already thinking about throwing in the towel.
My originals only lasted 32K. Might have been able to get another couple thousand out of them, but they were low enough that they were starting to hydroplane in modest rain and they were in no condition to handle any kind of snow. These are looking like they'd make it another 30K miles at least.
Quote from: MX793 on June 26, 2009, 07:57:11 PM
My originals only lasted 32K. Might have been able to get another couple thousand out of them, but they were low enough that they were starting to hydroplane in modest rain and they were in no condition to handle any kind of snow. These are looking like they'd make it another 30K miles at least.
Dang, 70k miles on a set of tires is crazy!
Quote from: MX793 on June 26, 2009, 07:57:11 PM
My originals only lasted 32K. Might have been able to get another couple thousand out of them, but they were low enough that they were starting to hydroplane in modest rain and they were in no condition to handle any kind of snow. These are looking like they'd make it another 30K miles at least.
Wow...20K is the record for me, and that was mostly highway.
I just asked my friend how long his tires last him usually. What did he answer?
"A year."
(http://planetsmilies.net/happy-smiley-620.gif)
I think I have around 25k on my current tires, and they'll probably need replacing within 5k miles, if not sooner.
About 18k on my Pirelli Pzero Nero M&S, and they are at roughly 6/32". I'll likely replace them at 25k mi, or next spring if I can afford it. Replacements... too many to consider. I was at first thinking of the Dunlop SP Sport Maxx but the wear rating on those is kinda low ( realized that's subjective, but still... ) which I suppose is part of the trade off for having sticky rubber. I'll probably just get some cheap Yoko S.Drives. Only high performance summer tire I can find other than the Sumitomo sumpinorother or Kumho Ecxta that is both a 91 on load and around $100. I've been wanting to try the General Exclaim UHP which is probably close enough, being 87. (Difference of about 150lbs per tire).
Although I just noticed that with the mail-in rebate the Sport Maxx is down to $100 per tire... not bad. Still don't know how long they'll last, but then again with my bike in the picture my car use has gone down drastically. And if I broaden my search to UHP Allseasons I see the Avon Tech 550 and Goodyear Eagle GT are good choices.
Sorry, just thinking with my keyboard.
mine are about 11k kms old and the front right tyre is pretty worn, but considering the fact that my dad has a company car now, i don't think we're replacing those for another year.
Quote from: thecarnut on June 26, 2009, 01:46:25 PM
What's up with the mismatched wheels on yo car?
I am in the middle of a 5 lug swap. I have the stock setup in front and new setup in the rear. Gonna have 330mm (13"... bigger than a Ferrari on an Accord lmaoooo) rotors in front along w/all new bushings and everything. Plus it makes for a funny picture lol
Quote from: sportyaccordy on June 27, 2009, 08:50:27 AM
I am in the middle of a 5 lug swap. I have the stock setup in front and new setup in the rear. Gonna have 330mm (13"... bigger than a Ferrari on an Accord lmaoooo) rotors in front along w/all new bushings and everything. Plus it makes for a funny picture lol
I like the wheels on your rear axle... are those off an RSX or something?
Quote from: R-inge on June 27, 2009, 09:05:18 AM
I like the wheels on your rear axle... are those off an RSX or something?
Current Civic Si.
I'm not a fan of those.
Quote from: thecarnut on June 27, 2009, 09:32:26 AM
Current Civic Si.
I'm not a fan of those.
Ah, now I see it, thanks.
They're not bad, in fact I kinda like the way they are shaped to make it seem like they have more less of an offset than they really do. Same size as the ones on my car, which seems to be a good compromise between ride and handling. I'd like to see Sporty's car in person with those on it sometime.
Quote from: R-inge on June 27, 2009, 09:43:33 AM
Ah, now I see it, thanks.
They're not bad, in fact I kinda like the way they are shaped to make it seem like they have more less of an offset than they really do. Same size as the ones on my car, which seems to be a good compromise between ride and handling. I'd like to see Sporty's car in person with those on it sometime.
I don't know, it just doesn't seem to work on his car.
Sporty, you should get some 5 spoke wheels. Spoon SW388's? :lol:
Quote from: sportyaccordy on June 27, 2009, 08:50:27 AM
I am in the middle of a 5 lug swap. I have the stock setup in front and new setup in the rear. Gonna have 330mm (13"... bigger than a Ferrari on an Accord lmaoooo) rotors in front along w/all new bushings and everything. Plus it makes for a funny picture lol
Only 330mm? You could probably do double or triple that and still make sense.
i went under, the arm was completely bent. It's supposed to be completely straight, it had almost a 20-30 degree angle in the middle :lol:
went to the junkyard, picked one up for $25, had a fucking hell of a time taking a bolt off (in the end I think it sheared when we were torquing it down to spec but the head is still on there so I didn't get a new bolt yet) but it's all good now :praise:
You guyzez buy expensive tires!!!
The cheap ones last a long time: I put 40k+ on the ones on my van since May 2005. Who knows how old they were before we bought it (w/ 118k miles...)
Quote from: SVT_Power on June 27, 2009, 10:43:39 PM
i went under, the arm was completely bent. It's supposed to be completely straight, it had almost a 20-30 degree angle in the middle :lol:
went to the junkyard, picked one up for $25, had a fucking hell of a time taking a bolt off (in the end I think it sheared when we were torquing it down to spec but the head is still on there so I didn't get a new bolt yet) but it's all good now :praise:
Cool, glad you got it sorted out!
Quote from: AutobahnSHO on June 28, 2009, 05:01:16 PM
You guyzez buy expensive tires!!!
The cheap ones last a long time: I put 40k+ on the ones on my van since May 2005. Who knows how old they were before we bought it (w/ 118k miles...)
I don't buy the most expensive tires out there, but I buy performance tires.
The tires that came with my car are getting to be low at 20k miles. I bet I have to replace them before 25k. :facepalm:
Quote from: Minpin on June 29, 2009, 08:40:06 PM
The tires that came with my car are getting to be low at 20k miles. I bet I have to replace them before 25k. :facepalm:
I'm hoping to get new tires in before the roads get covered in wet leaves. I'm a few weeks off 15,000 miles.